#This isn't in response to anyone specific I was just thinking about that Elwing doesn't deserve the fandom hate post

[elvenmoans]

The kidnap fam being sweet at times doesn't conflict with the fact that M&M don't deserve the boys or their love. And it absolutely doesn't conflict with the fact that Elwing and Earendil were unforgivably wronged and deserve their children back. And the boys loving them doesn't even conflict with hating them as well.

The fact that Maglor and Meadhros don't deserve domestic happiness is what makes it interesting to explore. I don't see the point in flattening it out. And I really don't see the point in Elwing hate.

[golwenlothlindel]

OKAY ENOUGH

The toxic discourse around Elwing and the Sons of Fëanor needs to stop right now. You are all ignoring very basic facts here.

1) none of these people realistically had choices. Ulmo had made sure of that. Exactly what good do you all think Eärendil would have done anyone by remaining at home? It's not that he doesn't want to protect his children, it's that he's living in a world where that is just not one of the possibilities. Do I need to remind you all once again that the literal devil's armies are running around right outside of their refugee camp.

2) The Fëanorians attacked Balar at the same time they attacked Sirion. From listening to you all talk, you'd never realize Maedhros is the best general to ever live. Please, just once, play a real-time strategy game. I'm a little done with people thinking they can discuss Tolkien without at least some general knowledge of military strategy: the man was a veteran, and he was writing for the children of veterans. He knew what he was on about here. Maedhros isn't going to launch an attack again, without first making sure that his opponents have nowhere to run. He wants that Silmaril now, because he's tired of this. So he's not going to leave the possibility that Elwing can get away from him again. She only gets away because of Ulmo's intervention.

3) any faults Elwing or Eärendil might have had as parents were the fault of Maedhros and Maglor. They were the ones who destroyed Doriath. They were the ones who lost the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. They were responsible for Tuor's enslavement as a child, and for Elwing's brothers being lost. They were responsible for Húrin's capture, and thus Maeglin's (why was Sauron hanging out near enough to the Echoriath to capture Maeglin, unless he knew that somewhere in that area was where he would find Gondolin). If Elwing and Eärendil had trauma because of what happened to them as children, or what happened to their parents, it is Maedhros and Maglor's fault.

I will second the call to please not use the term Stockholm Syndrome here. Elrond very much does NOT excuse the actions of the Sons of Fëanor (in fact, he dunks on them savagely in LotR). Nor, indeed do I think that Maedhros and Maglor would want him to. Maglor, famously, regrets everything that happened and the crimes he committed. You do not call your most famous song The Fall of the Noldor if you think everything you and your people did was justified. But I think Tolkien's point is very much that love and approval are separate things. Elrond does not approve of the things Maglor has done, but he doesn't need to excuse Maglor's crimes in order to love who he is. Elrond abdicates his right to revenge, but that's all. The idea that he forgives Maglor is frankly silly. You can't forgive someone for the kinds of things that Maglor has done. You can decide not to punish them directly, you can decide that their guilt and shame is enough of a punishment, but that isn't the same thing as forgiveness. Elrond likely doesn't feel the need to punish Maglor because Maglor punishes himself.

Maglor ultimately inflicts the ultimate punishment on himself: casting away a Silmaril was one of the things the Oath specifically forbade. He decides that since no one is going to release the Sons of Fëanor from the Oath, and it most likely can't be broken (or at the very least, he does not have the strength to do this), the only virtuous thing he can do is to make himself it's only target. And I will remind you, the Oath specifies that the takers must "pursue with wrath and vengeance" anyone who casts away a Silmaril. Note though, that the Oath does not specify that the takers must kill those who do the listed things. Maglor can be angry at himself, without killing himself. He can inflict pain on himself in revenge for throwing away the Silmaril, without killing himself. It's pretty clear why he does this too: it's to prevent himself from pursuing Eärendil. The Oath, after all, does allow the takers to prioritize which offenders to pursue first: hence how Maedhros could be well aware that Lúthien had a Silmaril in Ossiriand and not do anything about it while there was still a realistic possibility of storming Angband. By the same logic, Maglor can simply choose to always prioritize himself for revenge over Eärendil. This confounds the Oath, stopping it from causing any more damage: at the cost of Maglor being miserable.

Maglor would not want us to be slagging off Elwing and Eärendil. He would be the first to defend them and their choices. If Elrond and Elros at any point said anything to the effect of "you're our real dad", Maglor would be the first to correct them. Because he would absolutely 100% own the fact that any flaw Elwing and Eärendil might have had was his fault. He honors their biological parents, and he would teach them to do so as well. I do think there is a subtle way that Elrond honors Maglor, and indeed Maedhros*, and that is by identifying himself as Halfelven rather than Eärendilion. He doesn't want to choose a side, and that is surely because of the love he feels for Maglor. But, he feels this love for Maglor specifically because Maglor honored his birth parents. No adopted child, is going to like their adoptive parents if they don't show respect to their birth parents.

Now, I do get why people write fanfics where Maedhros and Maglor are better parents than Elwing and Eärendil, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with Tolkien's text. I think a lot of people have parents who either refuse to accept or struggled to accept some aspect of their identity. It's common, at least among those I've had the chance to talk to, for those kids to have kidnap fantasies where another set of parents who is accepting comes to their rescue. Obviously, wish fullfillment is perfectly fine in fanfiction. No one should be demanding that fanfiction be 100% lore accurate, and never veer off into blatant authorial wish-fulfillment. I mean ffs, it's not like Tolkien didn't ever engage in blatant authorial wish-fulfillment himself. And for another thing, some of the absolute best fanfics of all time have been created because of that. However, the fulfillment of your childhood kidnap fantasy is not something to indulge during lore discussions.

When I discuss lore, I'm primarily interested in picking apart the text Tolkien actually wrote to see what I like about it so much. I know that will expose parts of the text I don't like very much, but that's okay. This is why I get annoyed when people come out with headcanons or lore thoughts that have no support in the text. If you want a story that does that, please go write it yourself and get it away from anything Tolkien-related. It makes me sad when people have these brilliant ideas, but insist on attributing them to a famous creator because idk, I guess they feel the idea is more legitimate that way? Honestly, I do not get that idea at all. If it's a good idea, then it needs nothing to validate it or legitimate it. Just like if it's your identity then it exists without anyone validating it. Tease me all you want for feeling this way, but that isn't going to change how I feel. That's not how emotions work.

*I say "and indeed Maedhros" here, because of the parallel between Maedhros' abdication as an act of self-definition and Elrond's insistance on defining himself apart from his ancestry. Whether Elrond loved Maedhros or not, he clearly learned a lot from him.