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ineffable-romantics · 1 year ago

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Some thoughts on why and how I believe Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship would incorporate sex/why I do not read them as wholly asexual:

This is something I've seen the most discourse about in this fandom, and I've had a few thoughts of my own that I really wanted to expand upon in a full meta/character analysis post. I do understand that this can be a contentious topic, so first, let me clarify a few things:

First of all, this is going to be long. Tbh it probably won't be that organized either. I ramble and I'm not very good at editing, so just... you know. Be warned. (*Hi, it's me from 2 days after writing this; I'm really not kidding, it's LONG)

These are all my own thoughts. They might not be hot takes, because recently I've seen more than a few people come to the same conclusions on a lot of these points as I have. But I've also had these notes in my drafts for about a week and a half now, and have been continuously adding to it as things have occurred to me. This post is essentially just somewhere for me to collect the separate but related meta I've been kicking around in my head.

I fully respect anyone who does see and prefer an asexual reading of this relationship. These are my own thoughts and interpretations as someone who is not asexual. I am in the LGBT+ community, so while I do know a few things about the asexuality spectrum, I am by no means an expert.

This is NOT something I expect, need, or even necessarily want the show (or, God forbid, Neil's tumblr ask box) to address. Tonally, it's just not that kind of show. Newt and Anathema's sex scene was very much played for laughs, and it worked for that reason. If the show found a way to address it in a way that was both appropriate for the tone of the show and ultimately satisfying, then great! But there is so much more to this relationship than sex, and I didn't need a kiss to confirm their love, so I certainly don't need a sex scene. As immortal beings (as I assume they'll stay) there is so much of the rest of their lives we'll never get to see. You can headcanon them as asexual and potentially be right. I can headcanon them as not and be equally potentially right. Again, these are just a collection of my own thoughts, because I think the question of sexuality (or lack thereof) is just as interesting a facet of these characters as any other.

Note: Tbh I've been second-guessing this whole post and debated deleting the whole thing several times for being silly or unnecessary, bc I don't want anyone to think that this is the only thing I care about when it comes to this story/characters. But if nothing else, it's inspired me to write in a way that nothing has in a very long time, so I've decided it's worth continuing, if for no other reason than that.

This is going to be a mixed bag of textual reading, subtextual reading, and a full-on reach or two. It's been a while since I've been in an English class, but if my teachers expected me to find a deeper meaning behind blue curtains, you can expect me to read too deeply into the symbolism of a loaded rifle or an ox rib. (This is probably not what my professors had in mind when grading my literary analysis papers but oh well) My point is, if it feels like a reach, I'm as aware of it as you are. I am in no way saying that all (or even any) of my points made were deliberate on the part of Neil or the actors or the writers or the directors. I am no longer the delulu Apple Tree Yard child of my youth, I promise.

If anything said here is in any way offensive or hurtful to anyone in the asexual community, please do not hesitate to message me or comment and let me know exactly what it was. I promise you it is not my intention to do so, and am happy to clarify or outright edit anything that reads that way.

With all that being said, let's talk about why I think Crowley and Aziraphale would absolutely fuck nasty incorporate sex into their relationship.

Note: I am out of practice with essay writing, so I think I'll just go down the bullet points of notes I have been making, and expand on each as best I can

Food

Where better to start than with Aziraphale's introduction to Pleasures Of The Flesh? (Just a heads up, this entire post may feel very Aziraphale-heavy, and with good reason).

This might be the least hot take here. We've all seen the Job minisode. We've all seen That Scene.

Whether this was intentional or not, the symbolism here is off the charts. Eve was tempted by an apple. So why not go a similar route and tempt Aziraphale with another fruit, or cheese, or bread, or literally anything else for his first experience with food? Instead, we go with a huge, glistening slab of fresh meat that he proceeds to absolutely go feral upon, moaning and gasping into his meal while Crowley watches with what definitely doesn't look to be disgust or even satisfaction with a good temptation. There's surprise at the ferocity of Aziraphale's appetite, certainly. But ultimately he looks to be intensely fascinated by it, while the thunder crashes, the music crescendos, and the earth literally shakes around them.

(It's also interesting to note how very little it takes for Crowley to tempt him with the ox rib. One murmured suggestion, a bit of unwavering eye contact, and vavoom Aziraphale immediately meets him in the middle.)

Cut to Aziraphale devouring the rest of the meat with Crowley splayed back on a makeshift bed, drinking wine and continuing to watch him indulge through half-lidded eyes. Outside a thunderstorm rages while they're learning secrets about each other in warm flickering firelight. It's cosy, it's intimate, and if they'd thrown in a bearskin throw blanket, it might as well be a post-coital scene straight out of Game of Thrones.

The next time (chronologically) we see them discuss food is when Aziraphale "tempts" Crowley with oysters in Rome. So Crowley first tempts Aziraphale with meat and then Aziraphale tempts Crowley with what is widely regarded to be an aphrodisiac. Interesting.

And then chronologically after that, the Arrangement begins to form, which has always reeked of a friends with benefits situation. Just to throw that in there.

It's What Humans Do

In the very first episode, we're shown Gabriel's obvious disgust and bewilderment towards Aziraphale eating sushi, calling it "gross matter" and being proud of the fact that he does not sully his body with it. Aziraphale initially tries to defend his own enjoyment in it, before passing it off as something that humans do, as something he simply has to do in order to blend in (which we know very well is not the case).

He does this again in season 2, passing off Nina and Maggie being in love as "something humans do". But it isn't, is it? Angels are beings of love, and can sense it, and understand very well what it is... up to a point. Even romantic love is obviously within their wheelhouse, given what we now know happened between Gabriel and Beelzebub (we'll come back to them).

What the "humans do" that angels wouldn't understand is messy, physical forms of love.

But here's the thing: Aziraphale and Crowley love doing what the humans do. They love drinking, they (or at least Aziraphale) love eating. They love music. Crowley loves driving and sleeping and watching rom-coms and sitcoms. Aziraphale loves reading and doing magic and earning little licenses and certificates for achievement in his various hobbies. They love to playact at being human so much that they've stopped playacting and started building a genuinely human lifestyle for themselves and with each other.

Once together in an unambiguously romantic sense, why do we think they wouldn't also want to explore one of the most prominent, intimate, powerful human expressions of love and desire with each other?

Angels, Demons, & Asexuality

Here's where I really want to clarify that in no way do I mean that sex is necessary for a healthy, fulfilling, and loving romantic relationship, or that the lack of desire for sex makes you any less human. Asexuality is a sexuality as valid and human as any. What I would say is that it is definitely in the human minority compared to allosexuality.

Angels and demons, on the other hand, are predominately asexual. Sexless/genderless unless Making An Effort. (Which, btw, is a concept introduced as early as the original book; why even bring it up as a possibility? Why not keep angels/demons being sexless/asexual as a hard and fast rule, if not to open up the potential for later use? Chekhov's Effort, if you will. And isn't that something that Aziraphale in particular is shown to do time and time again? He makes an effort in French and driving and magic, doesn't he?)

And this is why I don't believe Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily need to be asexual, narratively. There is already a huge amount of ace rep within the angels and demons (and no, not just the horrible ones. Muriel also doesn't "drink the tea" and has no reason or desire thus far to Make An Effort, and there are certainly other angels and demons who aren't horrible like the archangels seem to be who likely wouldn't Make An Effort either).

The central conflict for Aziraphale and Crowley is that they are on their own side, the ones who went native, the ones who are so different in so many ways from their respective hives. It would make sense for them to also break away from traditional angel/demon asexuality.

I say "traditional angel/demon asexuality", because I would also like to note that I would absolutely not rule out demisexuality for either of them. This post is being written to as a response to people who specifically believe that they (like the rest of the angels/demons seem to be) would be sex-averse in a relationship, and that it wouldn't be a factor in their relationship. I could easily read them as demisexual, but I do think there would be no real way of verifying this, because they've never been able to form as close an emotional relationship with anyone else but each other. Certainly not in heaven, and I can't imagine they would be able to form that kind of attachment with any of the humans, who they love and emulate but ultimately regard as the separate species they are. So yes, they could either be allosexual or demisexual, in my opinion.

Then again, now that I think about it, Making An Effort itself could be a great metaphor for demisexuality, since they would be entirely sexless/asexual until they have enough of an emotional connection with someone to consciously manifest otherwise. Since the other angels and demons don't generally form those types of emotional connections with anyone, there hasn't been a precedent for it.

Except...

Brielzebub

We do have a precedent for it now, don't we? Gabriel and Beelzebub fell in love. They are a direct foil for Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, speedrunning right through their courtship and finding their happily ever after on the other side of things.

For being such a 1 to 1 comparison, it feels deliberate that they did not kiss. They held hands, they were gooey with each other, but they did not kiss. That feels like such a deliberate thing to omit when you know what's to come at the end of the episode between Crowley and Aziraphale.

And going back to the food = sex metaphor for a moment, let's notice how even as they fell in love over the years, even when pints and crisps were there on the table in front of them, they never felt the desire to reach out for them. They didn't need to. It's a date (love story) even if you aren't eating dinner (sleeping together).

Yes, I know Jim liked hot chocolate. No, I am not counting it because I don't consider Jim and Gabriel to be the same person with the same proclivities, and Jim was highly suggestible at the time anyway.

Gabriel and Brielzebub's big happily ever after moment (as of now) was one between two asexual supernatural beings. They did not need to kiss to drive the point home. They showed what Crowley and Aziraphale could have, if they would only acknowledge it.

Crowley & Aziraphale's Dissatisfaction

But they do have that already, don't they? If you really think about it, what do Gabriel and Beelzebub do with each other that Crowley and Aziraphale don't already? They hold hands, they spend time together, they create little rituals, they give gifts, they're visibly and verbally affectionate with each other, etc. They are more or less already in a romantic asexual marriage relationship with each other, aren't they?

And it doesn't seem to be enough for either of them.

At the beginning of the season, Crowley is immediately shown to be unsatisfied with the way things are. Obviously part of it comes from living in his car, but it seems to be more than that (especially since Aziraphale makes it clear that the bookshop is just as much Crowley's as his, implying that he could have been living there the whole time and is choosing not to, for some reason?). You could argue he's feeling unmoored without Hell telling him what to do, but isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what he still wants, by the end of the season? All season long, he's never indicated the desire for a new job, or a new project. He stopped the apocalypse because he wanted the freedom to openly spend time with Aziraphale, to spend his time on Earth however he sees fit. Until Gabriel arrives, he has exactly that (minus a flat).

So where does the dissatisfaction come from? And if it represents anything to do with his relationship, what does he want out of it that he isn't getting already?

I think Crowley only really comes to the realisation of what he's missing when Nina names it for him, not only putting them in the category of romantic, but physical (outright asking if they are sleeping together). These two posts [1], [2] go into more detail about what I mean, but I think it really pushes him into acknowledging that their relationship is more human than either of them have stopped to consider, and what that might mean as far as everything a human relationship can entail.

After all, Nina and Maggie only advised that he should talk to Aziraphale, make clear his feelings. The decision to kiss him, to tip them over the edge from nonphysical to physical, that was all him. And no, kissing isn't sex, but I wonder how taboo even that might be in the kind of all-encompassing asexuality most angels seem to identify with. (If they're disgusted by food and drink, I can only imagine what they think of snogging, much less sex.)

Aziraphale doesn't have this moment of someone observing their relationship from the outside. He loves Crowley, and as of 1941 probably even knows he's in love with him in a way that Crowley doesn't understand yet. Which makes sense, since love is technically his job, he'd be more likely to recognise it for what it is.

However, Aziraphale's reference for romance and relationships is Jane Austen. It's chaste. It's dancing and dinner and doing sweet things for each other and roses and candles and handholding. He contextualises his love for Crowley in that soft fantasy sort of way, where it's there, it's obviously there, but it's neat and easy and unspoken. Not to quote Glee in this, the year of our lord 2023, but it's all very "the touch of the fingertips is as sexy as it gets".

Someone should tell that to Aziraphale's face, then.

I'm not going to pretend I know what Michael Sheen's script notes were, but there were definitely some Choices™ made. Because yes, there were plenty of moments in both seasons with Aziraphale looking at Crowley in a sweet, loving, smitten way. And then there were moments that were yearning.

But yearning for what, exactly? All of those sappy Jane Austen tropes already apply to the two of them. So why are there moments where Aziraphale is looking Crowley up and down like the last eclair in the window and licking his lips and visibly exhaling like he's trying to get in control of himself (see: Bastille scene + Crowley telling Muriel to ask him if they have any other questions about love)? Why is Aziraphale not only unconcerned when Crowley shoves him bodily up against a wall in s1, but staring at his lips and a beat too late in noticing Sister Mary's arrival? Why are some of his lines so suggestive? I'm sorry, but the car ride after the church explosion might as well have been the beginning of a Pizza Man porn with a really weird Blitz theme. If even my mother picked up on that vibe, I can't imagine it wasn't intentional on part of both the dialogue and the delivery.

(This section may feel like more of a reach/joke, but I'm really only 20% joking. These are writers and actors who are EXTREMELY good at their jobs; they know what they were doing here.)

More importantly, I don't think Aziraphale is even aware that there is more to what he wants. He lives in the Jane Austen fantasy and it never even occurs to him that he might be interested in anything further. It never even occurs to him that, as an angel, there is anything further to be interested in in the first place. Until Crowley forces it to occur to him. Just like I believe Nina forced Crowley to confront the idea that romantic love is what he's been feeling all along, I believe Crowley forced Aziraphale to confront the idea that physical intimacy is something he's been wanting, without even realising.

Aziraphale's Hedonism

Expanding on Aziraphale for a moment. We talked about his relationship with food, but we all know that Aziraphale is defined by his love of things that Feel Good.

It isn't just that he and Crowley love human things. Aziraphale loves the best of the best, or at least his version of it. He doesn't just love food, he loves going to fancy restaurants. He doesn't just love clothes, he loves soft, cosy, warm, plush clothes, or shiny, flashy, bougie fashion. He loves the warmth of tea and cocoa, loves getting drunk, and sitting in a comfy chair in the sunlight. He doesn't just experience, he indulges.

Given the emphasis put on things that Aziraphale loves just because they Feel Good, it feels narratively strange to assume that he wouldn't enjoy the feeling of being touched, or that he wouldn't be willing to try it, at least once, with someone he cared very deeply for. And just like the ox rib, I think that once he gets the first taste of things, he would absolutely tip over into complete and utter self-indulgence.

Dancing

I also think that dancing could be construed as a huge metaphor here. After all, we're told flat-out that angels don't Dance. Except one.

I would argue that Aziraphale, in fact, Made An Effort to learn how to Dance. He threw himself into the gavotte with delight (at a Victorian gay club; noted) and worked hard to be good at it. He's chomping at the bit to Dance with Crowley, working up the nerve to ask him with undeniably romantic intent and eagerness. So, angels don't Dance... unless they Make An Effort to do so.

We are told that demons, on the other hand, do Dance, but not well. Makes sense, since they're the ones who would want to encourage a deadly sin like lust, but have as little understanding of human love and physical intimacy as the angels. Crowley, however, is shown to be an excellent dancer at the ball, especially in his compatibility with Aziraphale.

(But Aziraphale WandaVisioned the ball so everyone knew how to dance! Yes, he did. However, the rest of the brainwashing doesn't seem to affect Crowley in any way, and they did actually live through the time period where this sort of dancing was a social norm; I'd be surprised if he never needed to learn. After all, the demons can't spell either, and Crowley is at least functionally literate, as far as we know.)

As of today, it's also been confirmed that when Aziraphale asked Crowley to dance, Crowley replied with "you don't dance." Not "WE don't dance". So going along with the metaphor, Crowley is just now discovering that Dancing is something Aziraphale is interested in at all, much less with him, and not denying that he himself is interested in Dancing. In his defense, I believe he was asleep for a few years while Aziraphale was learning the gavotte, so he wasn't exactly aware of Aziraphale's hot girl summer.

Love Languages

I want to expand on that; Crowley and Aziraphale's compatibility. Specifically in regards to their individual love languages.

We all know Crowley's love language is Acts of Service. I don't think there's any debate there. He loves it, Aziraphale loves it, they're both aware of it, we're all aware of it, God and Satan are aware of it, no surprise there.

You may disagree with me, but I believe Aziraphale's love language is Physical Touch, for a number of reasons. One of which being his aforementioned hedonism. Aziraphale likes things that Feel Good, remember? He likes soft clothes, and well-worn books. Neil himself has said that they like holding hands. And any time he is taken by surprise (Brielzebub getting together, the wave of love in Tadfield, etc.) what is the first thing he does? Reaches out for Crowley. He stops him with a hand to the chest in the pub. He leads him by the hand to the dance floor. He guides him by the waist in the graveyard. He reaches out during the entire Brielzebub scene, whether he can reach Crowley or not. Despite his own turmoil, he grasps at Crowley's back during the kiss.

The one time Crowley reaches out for him (not counting the kiss yet; we'll get there), he is aggressively pushed against a wall (by someone he loves and trusts) with a complete and utter lack of concern (and perhaps some interest, depending on how you read it).

And when he isn't reaching out for anyone, or there isn't anyone to reach out to? Well, he's wringing his own hands together, squeezing his own fingers, as if to find that physical comfort in himself.

So. With that theory in mind, we have Aziraphale (Physical Touch) + Crowley (Acts of Service). Throw in 6000+ years of deep love, cherished companionship, and forcibly repressed longing, and there is a very real potential of this combination resulting in fierce sexual compatibility. Where Aziraphale would want to touch and be touched, to indulge in physical pleasure with someone he adores, in the same the way he indulges in every other fine thing in his life. And where Crowley would want to indulge him in return, to give him everything he wants, and to take pleasure in Aziraphale's pleasure, in the same way he enjoys watching him take joy in food everything else.

So Aziraphale is an angel who is insecure about his own less-than-holy desires, who would want to treat Crowley like a luxury to be touched and cherished and adored. And Crowley is a demon who has, over the millennia, been unhappy about how they've been forced to deny even their friendship with each other, who would want Aziraphale to feel comfortable and safe and encouraged to indulge in earthly delights. That sounds like a stunning recipe for sexual compatibility to me.

"You said 'trust me'" / "And you did"

Just like the Job minisode, the Blitz is RIFE with symbolism (intentional or otherwise). This one will be quick, but I did want to touch on it because I thought it was interesting. Maybe I'm reaching at this point, but I'm assuming you read the tin.

First of all, Crowley not wanting to admit to never firing a gun before; comes off as someone who very much does not want to admit to their crush that they're a virgin ("You must have done this lots of times!" / "Umm.... yyyyyeah.")

(You could make the argument that Aziraphale having a firearms license and a Derringer in a hollowed-out book is symbolic of him not being a virgin while Crowley is. I disagree, for reasons I'll go into later, but it's a valid reading. However, I see it more like keeping a condom in your wallet; it's there in case you need it, but the opportunity has not yet risen no pun intended.)

More importantly, the theme of this entire minisode is trust. We already know they trust each other with their lives against the rest of Heaven, Hell, and the world. But specifically, this is about the importance of having complete trust in your partner in a charged, physically vulnerable, intimate moment, where the only danger is between the two of you.

Aziraphale needs to believe Crowley would never hurt him if he can help it. Crowley needs to trust Aziraphale's unwavering blind faith in him. Frankly, it all feels very symbolic of two people deeply in love losing their respective virginities with each other.

The trick is a success, and they share an intimate candlelit dinner in which they reaffirm their faith in each other. Aziraphale also begins to voice his agreement with Crowley, that maybe Heaven's rules shouldn't have to be as black and white as they are, and that there are benefits to... blurring the lines, shades of grey, wink wink (at which point even my mom was like, whoa guys, this is a family show).

Btw also: Can we all agree how much it looked like Crowley was getting ready to get a lapdance in that one scene? You know the one.

Also also: "Aim for my mouth"? Come on.

The Birds & The Bees

Now that I think of it, there's also something to be said for the fact that Crowley and Aziraphale are both obviously familiar with where babies come from (how they're made and how they're born) while the other angels aren't.

Something something Aziraphale and Crowley fundamentally understand sex and reproduction in a way the other angels (and probably demons) very much do not, nor have any desire to.

Probably not important. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

The Kiss™ & Religious Trauma

The Kiss. Where to even begin?

This has definitely been the hardest one to start, because there is so much going on here that I definitely won't be able to cover it all, and will certainly miss a few things here and there.

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss afterwards is the most interesting to me. And I don't mean directly after, I don't mean the "I forgive you" part. I mean the way he touches his lips when Crowley is no longer in the room and he no longer needs to save face, when he is completely alone. Had it been directly after the kiss, it would have been rightfully read as horror, or disgust, a shield to discourage further action.

It's not. It isn't just a touch, it's a press. As desperate and angry and unexpected and imperfect as the kiss had been, Aziraphale is pressing it into himself, recreating the feeling as best he can. Beneath all the poor timing and shock and hurt from their fight and fallout, I think it's fair to say that it was something he enjoyed. Something he doesn't think he should enjoy, something that Feels Good that he only allows himself to indulge in when completely alone.

Remember, Aziraphale's idea of love is Jane Austen and gentleness and courtship and fantasy. If he'd ever even considered kissing an option, it might have been gentle pecks, cheek kisses, forehead kiss, hand kisses. Soft, safe, chaste affection.

Crowley's kiss turns all of that on its head. He introduces physical intimacy in a very real, very messy, very human way that I don't think Aziraphale ever even considered could apply to them. Considering what other angels are like and what they look down on, even Aziraphale's Jane Austen fantasies probably would have been considered taboo.

So for their first kiss to be rough and desperate and passionate in the way it was, of course he was confused and in shock. It was deeply physical, and as overwhelming and awful as it was in the moment, it Felt Good. Enough that he grasped at Crowley and kissed back, if only just for a moment, before stopping himself. Enough that he actively pressed it into his lips afterwards, in private, to remember.

I adore how Neil has decided to evolve these characters past the first book/season. More so in this season, Aziraphale and Crowley have both become such interesting allegories for queer people on either side of the spectrum of toxic religion. Aziraphale in particular obviously, because he is the side that so desperately wants to believe, to make a difference, and to unlearn all of the propaganda he's been fed over such a long time. Just like so much of organised religion, there is so much that he is told, time and time again, that he should not want, that he is silly or stupid or outright wrong for wanting. It reminds me so much of the severe Catholic guilt one might feel for wanting/engaging in sex for the first time, and the stigma of being queer layered on top of that.

What is so critical to Aziraphale's character is that he goes on wanting, and more than that, actively pursues. He was convinced to go up against Heaven and Hell and stop all of Armageddon because he wanted to go on listening to music and eating lunch and reading books and enjoying the simple company of the person he cares most deeply for, even if that person is supposed to be the enemy.

All this to say that if angels are as generally asexual/sex-averse as I believe them to be, narratively speaking, it would make sense for Aziraphale to be singular in that regard as well. Mirroring his first experience with food, it would make sense for Crowley to be the one to first introduce this new messy, physical, human dynamic between them, for Aziraphale to hesitate (obviously we are at the Hesitation phase at the moment), and then (eventually) for him to dive in wholeheartedly, to absolutely glut himself on this new thing that Feels Good. It would make sense for his character development to show him overcoming his metaphorical Catholic guilt and pursuing the sexual intimacy most (if not all) of the other angels would scorn.

(I can't help but remember that plot idea Neil described from the unwritten sequel, with Aziraphale in a hotel room trying to watch a full porno by way of the free 2-minute teaser clips so he wasn't technically sinning by paying for it. I so hope this is used in season 3, because gosh, I wonder why Aziraphale would suddenly be so interested in observing human physical intimacy after 6,000 years. Lonely and doing a little surreptitious research there, angel?)

Crowley, on the other hand, is the queer person who has broken free from his toxic religion. He prides himself on being his own person, on their his own side. He doesn't have the hang-ups Aziraphale does. He doesn't worry that he's going to be judged or cast aside for wanting things he's not supposed to. So it only makes sense for him to be the first one to suggest/initiate physical intimacy. It makes sense for him to be the one who "goes too fast" (another fantastic example of this dynamic beginning as early as s1; what is that conversation in the car meant to represent, if not Aziraphale being overwhelmed by the intensity of their relationship, and his fear of succumbing to it when he believes he shouldn't? It's also interesting that this is the first conversation to take place in Soho, just after watching Aziraphale realise he's caught feelings for a demon, with the red glow of lust serving as the backdrop).

Do I think the kiss in and of itself was sexual? No. I think it was a passionate and devastating last-ditch effort on Crowley's part to convey the way he feels for Aziraphale. Not just that he loves him, but that he loves him in the most human way possible. But I do think that the kiss represents how they can move forward from here, and what they might want to explore with each other once they feel free enough to do so.

In Conclusion

I am sure, deep in my bones (unless we are explicitly told otherwise), that this was both of their first kisses no, I'm not counting the gavotte, and that neither of them have ever thought to do anything else physical with the humans while they have been on Earth. Like I said before, they adore the human race and lifestyle in general, but ultimately view them as a separate species altogether, and they seem mostly happy to keep to themselves and each other, unless otherwise necessary. I just can't see either of them being drawn enough to a human to pursue anything close to sex. If Crowley in particular has had anything to do with sex in the context of temptations, I'm positive he would be inciting lust amongst the humans themselves, not involving himself directly. At least not that directly.

So, like every other human experience they've had on Earth, sex is something new that they could explore together, just the two of them, on their own side. A deeply intimate, tangible declaration of their love and everything they've gone through to earn it. A visceral finger to give both Heaven and Hell. A renewed appreciation for their corporations and for each other's. A enjoyable method for immortal beings to simply pass the time in each other's company. A new and exciting way to Feel Good, and all the variations that come with it.

You might agree with this post, or you might not. Whether this is something that is ever addressed or not, it doesn't matter to me. This is a brilliant love story either way, and I genuinely feel so privileged to witness it.

But I just can't find it in myself to imagine, given everything we know about these two characters, that sex isn't an experience they would both consume with wholehearted enthusiasm, curiosity, and profound, ineffable adoration.

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Bonus feature: the very silly notes I made to myself that inspired this post

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lunalikestowriteanddraw · 2 months ago

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Im gonna be honest here, the only OUAW ship I WANT to be canon is Coalecroux

And it’s not just because I ship Coalecroux. If that was the case, then id also want Frostbek to be canon, when I don’t want it to be (not bc I dislike Frostbek—I fucking adore it—but because I personally don’t think any romance would help Frost or Torbek’s characters or character arcs—same with Gricko and Grimmorning for the same reason)

No, I want Coalecroux for be canon because I’m 99% sure that Gideon and Kremy’s character arcs are kinda BANKING on Coalecroux becoming canon.

Let me explain;

(Spoilers and VERY long explanation/rambling below)

Gideon’s character arc—now that I took a moment to actually think about it after rewatching episode 18, and thinking more about Gideon’s conversation with Mrs Snake-Snake—involves him learning to allow himself to feel sadness and letting himself love, romantically and platonically.

“But Gideon already clearly loves and feels sadness” I hear you say. Well…yes and no? Gideon very clearly loves his friends, that much is obvious. But I don’t think he himself has actually acknowledged the fact that he does love his friends, or that he loves them as much as he does. Kremy and Twig in particular. Based on Gideon’s reaction to his portraits, I think he was either expecting his Pa to appear in one of them (considering Gricko and Frost’s portraits), or was expecting the entire party to show up in the portraits (like Torbek’s). But it was just Kremy and Twig—the two he loves the most, but refuses to admit it to himself.

Or how about the fact that Gideon hasn’t really let himself feel sadness (or fear, for that matter)? He has clearly felt upset, don’t get me wrong, but he also usually masked it with anger. Like when Kremy revealed that Gideon was the one marrying the pixies. Gideon was upset and (rightfully) mad at Kremy, but he was very clearly scared (if his tone, body language, and the fact that he was doing how many shots of fireball to calm himself was any indication). And that fear showed itself even further when Kremy calmed Gideon down. Or with Twig’s death. Gideon was angry at Bavlorna, sure, but he was also genuinely sad, hiding behind (or maybe being overshadowed by) his anger.

Even when he was stuck as a kempestri and couldn’t move very well (since he traded away his ability to dance), and ended up trading some of his fire to help them find the pixie camp, he was as dejected as he was frustrated (probably at himself, the situation, and just…everything, really. Poor guy had a ROUGH day tbh)

I could keep going on about Gideon specifically, but I still want to talk about Kremy and this is long enough, so…Kremy.

Kremy, Kremy, Kremy. Where do I even begin with Mr Kremy Lecroux? For one, let’s start with his character arc, which is another one I didn’t catch until late into the season (with a specific conversation with Pincushion), but upon a rewatch of the early episodes, has made me realize this was a thing as early as episode 6? 7? Whatever, it’s the lying thing. Though…it’s not JUST the lying thing, because it’s similar to Gideon’s, just…different. Because Kremy KNOWS about his feelings (towards a variety of things and people), but refuses to acknowledge them, and just outright lie about said feelings.

And it’s not just his feelings towards Gideon—tho it’s primarily what I’ll be focusing on—but also his feelings towards a variety of things. Like, for example, the unicorn thing (until he decided to finally embrace his love for unicorns once they really started getting settled into the Feywild).

Anyway, Kremy’s character arc—from my understanding—is not only about him letting himself feel comfortable in enjoying the things he does and feeling the things he feels, but also just…not relying on the lies he hides behind as much.

I mean, look at how Kremy acted at the Witchlight Carnival, the moment his ability to lie was taken away. He immediately became nervous, jumpy, trying to spin his words into half-truths, or just outright not saying anything—almost as if in fear that he might reveal something he definitely doesn’t want to be revealed (not now, at least). Or how about that one episode (don’t remember which one) where he had his outburst and called Gideon his husband (“You will not talk to my husband that way”)? The entire episode—before it was revealed he couldn’t lie—Kremy was quieter than usual, aside from planning.

Or, better yet, how about his fight with Pincushion when they first met? Kremy was trying to lie and bully his way into getting Pincushion to do what they want, and it wasn’t working. In fact, Torbek was the one who got Pincushion to listen to them, by doing the exact opposite of what Kremy was doing. And iirc, Pincushion even told Kremy that lying and bullying won’t just make people listen and do whatever he wanted—especially not in the Feywild.

And obviously, I can’t say for certain how Season 2 is gonna go (if we even GET a season 2 at this point ffs), but also…I DO know that Gideon and Kremy are so emotionally constipated and refuse to acknowledge their own feelings for anyone and anything. And I also get a feeling that, somehow, either Coalecroux becoming canon would either help end their respective arcs, or help begin the end of said arcs (if that makes sense?)

Idk, this is really long and probably doesn’t make any sense, so apologies for that

#legends of avantris #once upon a witchlight #ouaw #kremy lecroux #gideon coal #coalecroux #text post #really long post #ouaw spoilers #guys I’m serious this is essentially an essay at this point #this entire post is 831 words #i just checked #this is LITERALLY the length of my longer highschool essays #or my shorter college essays #whichever way you wanna look at it

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literallythegrabber · 9 months ago

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TBP characters x somehow famous reader ? ( It's up to you how ) thank you for reading my request 👍

so I wasn't sure whether or not you wanted the cast or the characters themselves, so I just went with cast because it made more sense.

If you wanted characters I can redo it! 💗💗 (this looks way longer than it actually is btw)

Mason

he definitely stalks you

like not in a creepy way, he's just always on your social platforms, literally waiting for you to post.

he's totally your biggest fan, and will literally attempt to fight all of your haters.

Before your relationship, I feel like he was very nervous to talk to you.

Like if you two were ever at a screening together, or a fancy event back when TBP was popular, this man would legit stare you down from across the room. Then proceed to duck under a table if you catch him staring.

But during your relationship he would be way more relaxed and confident.

He would be chill about pda and taking you on dates in public, but your fanbase would be doing cartwheels, cause everybody ships yall.

Miguel

He's so obvious about his crush on you that it's hilarious.

If you seen those lives where he's just reading comments, then one mentions your name. He's gonna ramble on about you for the rest of the live.

WILL NOT SHUT UP ABOUT YOU, and his friends are tired of it tbh.

bro literally forgets he's famous too and turns into the ultimate fangirl.

But during your relationship he's so sweet.

Always wanting to hangout with you, taking you out in public almost every day.

If yall ever broke up, yalls fans would explode.

They be acting like yalls children with how lovey dovey yall are.

Brady

I feel like he'd try to hide it.

Like he's not in denial, but he don't want nobody knowing about his crush on you.

"conceal, don't let it feel" he's literally elsa.

He kinda keeps to himself around you, in public and all that.

He wouldn't want to overwhelm you, especially with how the media reacts when two popular human beings get together.

So you'd def have to approach him and ask for a date.

During your relationship, he would thaw the ice a bit.

You'd have to reassure him of your relationship a lot.

He just wants you to be comfortable. Lazy nights at home, introverted hangouts, cooking together.

Pretty chill.

Tristan

literally the opposite of brady.

IS YOUR BIGGEST FAN AND DOESN'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT.

He's definitely trying to rizz you up at a fancy event, and you're just like 😐

Like whispering random shit in your ear, trying to make you blush, posing with you at every opportunity.

Kinda annoying tbh

But if you give him a chance he'll tone it down. He'll start be more genuine and less flirty.

Taking you out to dinner, not wanting to take pictures with fangirls even though you scold him for being rude.

def starts arguments with you for fun. Starting light hearted arguments with you for fun.

this mf is still annoying.

but overall very cute.

Jacob

He's honestly pretty chill about you.

He just casually approaches you strikes up conversation.

In the middle of an interview? "These lights are bright, am I right y/n?" Talking with a fan? "Y/n, don't you have that same shirt?" Signing an autograph? "Do you think aliens are real?"

like shut up 😭

He really just enjoys talking to you, hearing your voice is the highlight of his day.

Yall would ease into a comfortable friendship before he ask you out.

From there on its late night ft calls, stealing each other's clothes, and going on casual excursions.

def the easiest to date.

Madeleine

She's so funny.

Either confesses right off the bat, or confirms you're hers after yall lock eyes.

kinda reminds me of that one audio, YOU ARE MINE, YOU ARE MINE.

Yall could be talking about pregnant hyenas, and she'll randomly be like, "I love you".

like girl what?

During your relationship she would be super cute.

Yall always out together. You can never catch her inside for more than 10 minutes.

Mason be feeling like a third wheel every time yall three are in the same room.

Yall just in the corner flirting and mason's just sitting there like 😐.

def your hype girl, yall always turning up.

srry, this was so long 💗💗

#the black phone #mason thames #finney blake #robin arellano #miguel mora #brady hepner #vance hopper #bruce yamada #gwen blake #billy showalter #the black phone x reader

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thefoxtherapist · 4 months ago

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Thinkin thinkin thinkin....

Reader who always wears a mask and people usually assume it's just so they could look edgy but in reality it's to cover up their face that is distorted from scars and on a random day character witnesses them without mask

Wuwa characters reacting~ (man I just don't really know who to name but maybe maybe include mortefi and scar *blinks cutely*)

No.. This isn't for self indulging because I made a wuwa character with a crow peak mask, no, not at all /liar

Anyways I know this might be more on the.. Darker side? I suppose and i tbh didn't know if you would be cool with it or nah.

I feel really chatty today forgive this yapper Anon, Have a lovely time zone🫡

Actually.... What is your favorite animal? Mine are crows :]

Hello thank you for the request! I never mind rambling don't worry! Haha I love the wuwa character inspired asks don't worry, my friend sent me one for Aalto based off of MY wuwa oc so (,: <3 handshaking.

CROWS MAKE SENSE! Mine are foxes<3 Specifically silver foxes or arctic foxes. But I love all foxes. My beloved creatures.

I hope you don't mind that I did headcanons!

Scar is almost insulted you didn’t tell him? The disgust in his mind is entirely based off of the “my fellow black lamb is even more similar to me and HID IT?!” thought. He confronts you about it. If you have your mask in hand, he grabs your wrist before you can put it back on. “Hello, beautiful.” while staring deeply at your face. “Shameful of you to hide such beauty from me.” Scar, you're so weird. Surprisingly sweet though..

Scar doesn’t really give you time to react before his lips start pressing against the outlines of the scars. If there are no outlines, he just starts smooching from your cheek across your face, your nose, your jaw, your chin, your forehead, before finally. He kisses your lips.

“You should really grace me with this sight more often~” Thanks Scar.

Anyways any time you two are alone in private he will POUT for you to take the mask off so he can kiss you and stare at you. Scar will compliment you a BUNCH. Anything to make you blush or smile.

He will also encourage you to touch his facial scars. And yes, he rubs his scarred cheek against your face. Like a cat. Congrats on the cat.

Mortefi literally doesn’t care.

He doesn’t even notice, he is mid sentence, hence why he caught you in such a situation. And he will NOT stop his sentence. Once he’s done rambling you’ve probably already got your mask back on. And he’ll stop you from responding by raising an eyebrow and “Why did you put it back on?”

“I’m more comfortable this way.” and that’s it, end of conversation. Mortefi respects you more than he feels the need to be curious about their origins. And he’s right back to talking about whatever it was he wanted to bounce off of you.

If you begin to take your mask off around him more often in private, he will notice, but he won’t comment on it. Mortefi isn’t a big show of affection guy, but he’ll encourage this by kissing your cheek whenever he’s on his way out or his way in.

Mortefi doesn’t see the need for verbal reassurances. He’s a bit of a stiff lover anyway. But he tries his best to show you support and affection. Its clearly a sensitive spot, and while he doesn’t really get it, especially as a Resonator with physical changes caused by his awakening and overclocking, he knows he doesn’t /need/ to understand to be supportive.

Aalto is soooo curious, unlike Mortefi, he STOPS MID SENTENCE. And stares. Then realises he shouldn’t stare and turns around. “Sorry, babe! Didn’t expect you to be changing.” You weren’t, he just does not know how to phrase it. He’s definitely the ONLY one on /this/ list who actually thought it was for edgy purposes :sob: loser

Once he has a sign you have it back on, he WHIRLS AROUND. “As cool as the mask is, you should show off a pretty face like yours more often!” he wants to ask SO BAD. But Aalto knows he shouldn’t. And he’s a respectful guy! Sometimes.

Resumes what he was saying but he’ll be thinking about this allllllll night forever and always.

The next time you have your mask off around him, knowing he’s supportive of your skin, he feels GLEEFULLLL. Aalto is so happy. Aalto “You shouldn’t make ties with other people” Black Shores realises from this ordeal that he is in DEEP. SO SO deep.

That isn’t his problem though, he’s busy trailing his fingers over your jaw, neck, collarbones as he spoons you from behind. His aero abilities always leave a nice sensation against the scar tissue. Especially a fan of your jaw if there are any there in particular. Aalto is a jaw kisser through and through.

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red-talkin-graves · 28 days ago

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I feel like. HEA isn't too out of character for the smitten or princess tbh, and it feels like a very natural endpoint for the Damsel. I'm gonna. Ramble about it a lot below the cut

The smitten is blind to her flaws, single-minded, and obsessive. Even before the pristine cut all these traits were present. He never saw issue with the grey burning us alive. He never saw any issue with the razor cutting us to bits. He never took any issue with the deconstructed damsel, who existed as a two-dimensional cutout of a person that refused to have her own will and seemingly only existed for us. That's not really a healthy way to think of someone you love, I think. Which isn't to say there aren't chapters where the smitten does genuinely love the princess. The damsel just... doesn't strike me as one of them.

And the princess forgives the player so easily because the shifting mound is as we percieve her. In the damsel, we saw her as a loving being who would do anything for us, and in the chapter before, we refused to listen to the narrator's warnings(blinding ourselves to her flaws, creating the smitten). That perception becomes cemented into her nature. In the adversary, we had seen her as a capable fighter who we were evenly matched with, so that perception becomes part of her. This is how the princess is, as a narrative device and a character. There's a reason we get to the shifting mound by interacting with a mirror. She reflects what we see in her, and we see what she reflects, and that cycle goes around getting amplified every time. Every chapter is the last pushed to the extreme. The cage is the most extreme form of the prisoner, the apotheosis the most extreme evolution of the tower... she always amplifies what we see her as. And in the Damsel, we saw her as forgiving, loving; and willing to do anything for us.

Tbh I found the Damsel to be a very uncanny and uncomfortable chapter from the start, long before the pristine cut was released and even without having gotten the deconstructed ending myself. The Damsel was never romantic to me, she was always uncomfortable and jarring, because I know what it's like to be in her place, having to abandon my own autonomy and will to appease people just to survive. And I know what it's like to be loved by someone who takes no issue with me lacking autonomy, too.

At the start of the Damsel, she's still chained up. Her freedom is in our hands. She forgives us for the stabbing attempt in the damsel, and that becomes amplified. She loves us despite her lack of autonomy in the Damsel, and that gets amplified too. Even in the damsel, even after we bring her out of the cabin, she still is bound to our will for the few seconds before the world ends, because we still have the blade and still could kill her. HEA feels to me like where the Damsel was always going to end up, a natural continuation of how uncomfortable and uneasy the "romantic" parts of the Damsel were.

#the pristine cut #long post I'm aware but I love talking #and I genuinely love HEA. i think the dancing is a +2 bonus not because it's “romantic” but because it's finally HER choice #maybe if I ever had seen the Damsel as romantic I'd think differently. but the Damsel never seemed romantic to me #the “romantic” parts of the Damsel honestly make me more uncomfortable for uneasy than the parts of STP that are supposed to scare you #slay the princess #slay the princess spoilers #stp happily ever after #I'm also well aware “the damsel isnt romantic” is probably a bold fuckin take but idc. I do genuinely think that #analysis/rambling tag ♡#slay the princess meta

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magua-vida · 7 months ago

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SLAY THE QUEEN THORN

I was inspired by Abby's sketch of a hypothetical Queen version of the Princess, so I tried my hand at it with a few vessels, including this one. I... ended up drawing something akin to a fashion design concept art rather than a practical design that won't be tiring to draw over and over after a handful of sprites later. I also had to use a bit more artistic license growing unnatural poppies on the dress and the thick twirly prickly noodles.

some explanations behind the process

For the "mended" Thorn, I pretty much just removed the foreground thorns and added the dirt.

rambling/fangirling/screenshots below:

The Thorn is one of my favorites. If I had to choose only five vessels to offer to Shifty and there's no replayable feature, she'll definitely be one of them. I'm one of those suckers who's into Hurt/Comfort stories. Almost like a masochist for those fics, you could say. If the climax to an Action-heavy story is the defeat of one party, then the catharsis of Hurt/Comfort is when the two characters... well, comfort each other- either due to hurt from each other or someone else. In The Thorn's case, she started off rather innocently, Damsel-like, but not quite. She still had caution. It was until she was literally stabbed in the back that she learned that it was a mistake. And when Long Quiet offered sincere regret and admission of fault, she stabbed him... but she didn't feel the relief she thought she'd get from it. I think many relate to having been betrayed and/or betraying someone they trusted, and the scratches are felt by many players.

The thorns curve inward, as if it's more painful to leave her than it is to approach her.

Poppies grow around along the bramble. Many mistook them for roses because they're red and there are brambles (tbh, I actually dunno if they're brambles or briars, I looked them up and I got confused, forgive me, plant enthusiasts ;.;) that grow around the patches of those poppies. Death and romance~

This brings back to Chapter 1 where Hero was kinda-sorta-maybe-definitely crushing on the Princess and wants to give her the benefit of the doubt, not only because of feelings, but for a reasonable cause of wanting to rescue someone who possibly may actually be a victim of circumstance.

Look, I have reasons why Thorn route is one of my favorites and it definitely doesn't have anything to do with both characters having massive trust issues and the capability to change themselves for better or worse and the emotional moments hitting me like a lovely diamond-dusted dagger. Both of them are rather cat-like with pointy ears too.

I appreciate that you're still given the options to leave or stab Thorn, as if the situation isn't pitiable enough. Even her tiara looks like a crown of thorns. It's as if she views the thorns as both a form of penance and a defence mechanism to protect herself from being hurt again, even though she's hurt by her own making this time.

I chose for the Long Quiet to save her and leave the cabin together.

This part stabbed me the most. Even when shown genuine help, she shrinks back.

This part burns a bit of the jadedness away. Trust is a scary thing, so is love. How can you be so sure that you won't be hurt by the one you love again? But just like what The Prisoner says, it's about trust- blind trust. Thorn looks more human than her previous self- less animalistic, softer. A part of The Damsel returns, even in the music.

I recall weighing on whether I prefer the version with the Voice of the Cheated or Voice of the Smitten. I vaguely remember wondering if there was an option to ask her if it's okay to kiss her. I guess the ideal would be is to have that choice, but I suppose the climactic moment calls for it and she doesn't mind it, at least. It's like the option to hug Astarion from BG3, but you're not sure whether he'd be comfy with it after being hurt so much. He gave approval for it too~

As much as Thorn is one of my favorites, I'm not attracted to her and any of the vessels. Instead, I ship her with the Long Quiet- the character himself. I don't really see myself AS the Long Quiet, more like choosing what actions on what he does and I separate myself from him a lot for many reasons. It's a bit like the Harry situation from Disco Elysium in terms of seemingly blank-slate protagonists.

Instead, I kinda put myself into her situation to feel how she felt in this route. The poppies not only felt symbolic of her nature as part of the Shifting Mound, but also specifically the end of the mutual treachery you've inflicted on each other, potentially beginning anew on a path of healing.

==============ramble-bramble over===================

#black tabby games #slay the queen #slay the princess #the thorn #stp the thorn #surprise astarion from bg3 #blood

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wordsinhaled · 4 months ago

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hi there! I started following you after seeing your essay-long answers to DBD things in tags, and it made me very happy to see someone as deeply analytical as me about this show.

I wanted to ask you: if you were given the final say, how would you want the show to confirm both Charles' bisexuality and his romantic feelings towards Edwin (as both can be done at different points)?

Personally, I can't get the idea out of my head that it will be done with some kind of tragic goodbye, somehow Charles and Edwin have to separate, and Charles either verbally confirms it or kisses Edwin goodbye. Not saying that's what I want, but it's what I expect the writers to do.

Hope you're having a good day.

btw, would love to hear you talk more about timerogue (Fifteen/Rogue), I need more essay-long analysis about those two.

Hi there! <3 I am so happy you have enjoyed my tag rambles! And thank you so much for asking this great question, I had a lot of fun thinking through it!

I have many thoughts on this! Sticking them under a cut eventually because it is a long post!

Re: Charles' bisexuality: So the thing is I think that the DBDA universe generally seems to eschew labels in favor of showing rather than telling the audience what the characters' identities are. For example Jenny is interested in dating women, which is clear from her dialogue, and she goes on a date with Maxine, but she's never labeled anything. Edwin is never labeled anything by anyone in the narrative, either, but the narrative shows us that his only love interests and his desires and romantic feelings are for other boys. I would argue that we have been shown textually that Charles is bi, already, the same way the show shows-not-tells us other things. Charles by the end of the first season feels bi enough to me in a way that just feels like someone... living a bi life, and not yet realizing they might in fact be in love back with their best friend. I don't know how else to put it but I hope that makes sense. (My alternate, slightly sappier version of canon is that Charles fell for Edwin the first night, but has shoved it down for the duration of their friendship, but the former feels more likely as the direction I think we see on screen.) We are being told Charles is bi:

In the way Charles himself draws parallels between why he likes Crystal (his romantic love interest) and Edwin, pointing out they share the exact same traits

In the way he gives Crystal and Edwin the same genre of deep, loving gaze

In the way he thinks Crystal is fit, and he checks Edwin out, on multiple occasions, but only flirts with Edwin overtly in episode 8 ("My smile is pretty convincing," plus more than the usual amount of physical touch/proximity and less plausible deniability) once he can be assured by Edwin's recent confession that doing so will not be poorly received

In the different kinds of softness and masculinity he displays around both Crystal and Edwin

In the way that, despite not knowing the ending, he draws a parallel between himself and Edwin & a pair of lovers from classical mythology as though it is the most natural thing in the world to bring up the story of Orpheus & Eurydice, making overt the romantic potential of his relationship with Edwin

In the way he is so quick to write off that the two jocks were "just best mates" the way a person does when they are recognizing their own queerness in themselves and have to keep themselves safe from it, because of the environment that they are in (Charles being the Sports Lad, needing to fit in with other sports lads, and needing to avoid the censure/violence of his father)

And coming off the above, in the way that Charles navigates along the toughness-sensitivity spectrum within the social constructs of being "the brawn"

In the entire sparring scene in episode 1, tbh. The rituals are very intricate /drops mic

I understand the importance that's been placed by fandom spaces on "confirmed canon" queerness that is spelled out in so many words, given a label that can be pointed to to say "This character is definitely this!" but I think (and this is just my personal opinion) it can be reductive sometimes, and I don't really want Charles to label himself in that kind of way, just as much as I don't think the other characters needed the labels to "confirm" the queerness of their relationships or indeed of the show; having him be the one to do it for being bi would set him apart. I also think taking into account the time period that he grew up in, Charles would care more about living by the truth of how he feels and how he can use those feelings to connect with the one he loves, than what to call it. I just don't think we're gonna get like a "Hello my name is Charles Rowland and I am a verified bisexual"-type scene in season 2, and I think that's okay, and I don't really think that's the way for the show to 'confirm' it. Mind you I would love to see Charles talk about how it makes him feel to realize his feelings, and how his feelings for Edwin are different compared to how other people make him feel, because god, I love Charles so much and I just know such a scene would both destroy and heal me. FEEL YOUR FEELINGS, CHARLES <3

I think it says something really important that many, many, many people took one look at Charles Rowland and said: "Oh, he's bi." Not like... he has bi energy, or could plausibly be bi, or whatever; for so many people he just resonated as being bi, in a very organic way. (I know there are people who do read Charles as being straight/having rejected Edwin in s1, and I respect that, but they probably will not like my ideas about Charles very much, then, tbh.)

For what it's worth, though, Jayden's acting choices playing Charles, and the way Jayden (and George) have addressed the 'straight best friend Charles' line of questioning during interviews, both make it seem to me that Jayden is intentionally playing Charles as bi and we are already supposed to understand this for what it is, based on Charles' actions—just as we understand similar things about other characters inner worlds we are shown. Whether Charles is consciously aware of it yet is more the up-for-debate part to me, personally. It's like he is dancing right on the edge of the revelation, or something, but his actions (and his EYES) are speaking for him pretty loudly already.

As for how he confirms it more obviously? Hmm. Well, I'll admit i think a kiss between them would be lovely, if only because I think it would quite possibly be the Most Kiss a kiss could be, with all of Charles' tenderness and adoration for Edwin poured into it. I also think it would be in-character, given Charles canonically misses kissing, and wants to do it with people he's interested in romantically (see Crystal).

Charles struggles with being able to admit romantic feelings out loud because he is scared of his own capacity to hurt Edwin; after all the only example of "romantic" love he has seen was his parents' marriage. Charles is a person who acts first, thinks later, but in this process of understanding what he feels for Edwin he's taking his time and being the opposite of impulsive. This shows how important his relationship to Edwin is to him and his commitment to Getting It Right. Even with that deliberateness, though, I think it would still be easier for him to express himself through a tangible action like a kiss than through words—at least at first.

It reminds me of this scene from the first draft of Maurice between Maurice and Alec. Alec is struggling to verbalize his feelings for Maurice, although he does know he feels them. He can say other things, but naming love for what it is is the challenge; and in the end they use a shared memory of a time Alec showed his love through actions (running through the rosebushes just to see Maurice's face) to communicate and mutually understand their love for each other. Similarly, Charles finds it difficult to admit a deep romantic love aloud, but his actions speak louder, in his determination to retrieve Edwin from hell ("There's no one else—no one else—I would go to hell for") and he can allude to the romantic implications of the act, by referencing the Orpheus & Eurydice myth. It similarly becomes, I may not be able to say the words, but you and I both know the lengths i would go to for you.

Maurice : "I love you, sir be damned." Alec: "Maurice"—never before had the word been spoken—"you're an angel." Maurice: "I don't want to hear that." Alec: "Maurice, Maurice" his voice failed also; he had once said the rest to a woman. "Maurice - what you've said I feel. Understand?" M: "I think so, but I want to be sure. Remember those rose bushes in the other rain? - Look at me hard - That's right. That'll do. It's settled."

As far as the catalyst for Charles revealing his feelings... a tragic goodbye—gosh, as heartbreakingly compelling as I know seeing George and Jayden act that out would be (I know they would crush it), I really hope the writers don't do that to them! The thing about Payneland that is so refreshing to me is how they manage to subvert trope expectations and break out of the tragic narratives they are placed in, and I think they would ultimately defy any attempt at separation. As Edwin says, "I will make sure that doesn't happen," about them ever being split up. I am rooting for a happily ever after for them, because they have both been through enough, and have fought tooth and nail to stay together.

Steve Yockey has mentioned potentially having Desire of the Endless cameo on the show and I also think having them and Charles interact would be a fascinating way to bring to light some of the deep-rooted stuff Charles struggles with around love (and would nicely parallel Edwin's experience with the Cat King which catalyzed his Charles-feelings realization). I also like the idea of the team maybe meeting a couple during a case who parallel Edwin and Charles and are romantically involved. Seeing that would allow Charles to externalize the way he feels for Edwin by seeing it reflected back to him by other people; sometimes things are easier to pick up on in others than in ourselves. I think that would be a fun way to get him to see what's been there under the surface for some time :)

Oh my god this got so long asfhlgkjhg SORRY

(I'm sure the Doccy Who fixation will come back in time for the Christmas special! :D)

#dbda #dead boy detectives #dead boy detective agency #payneland #charles rowland

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azulsluver · 1 year ago

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I just want to ramble a little bit but- My personal scenario/headcanon for Bully au (which by the way, I love your writing) is that maybe one day reader decides to disappear, even if for a little while, maybe they just hide in some place for a long period of time (or hilariously and sneakily find a way to avoid their bullies throughout an entire day, or even crazier a whole week!!). They're so emotionally destroyed that they start to actually believe their insults and awful treatment they endured, and so they decide to just isolate themselves further somewhere no one can "be burdened by me"- Which in turn causes everyone else to at first get pissed off and then more and more (slightly, very slightly) worried that their punching bag is missing.... Perhaps, even have escaped them? 👀 I would love to see who loses their composure first, even if they don't admit their obsession at all lmao

Anon you don’t know what you’re doing to me //0//

tw. Bully!characters, no one takes you seriously kinda, yandere, stalking, baby tantrums.

This was more crack than anything serious…idk what happened but rants bellow!

They genuinely start tweakin:

Riddle, Deuce, Kalim, Malleus, Jack, Silver, Ruggie, Idia, Vil

They’re the ones that usually have their eyes on you, to find out that you’re missing and not at a place they SPECIFICALLY told you to be/stay flares their attention. Sure they can last a couple of days without you but a week? Nuh uh, they think they’re responsible for whatever you do, once they find you you’re getting a whole lecture. Telling you they’d get in trouble if they hadn’t found you sooner but let’s be real here.

But if you hid in a place far far away from them (which is impressive and impossible tbh) they’re already having a meltdown. Biting fingernails, aggressively running their fingers through their hair. All of that, and the ones who usually stay composed in situations like these (Ruggie/Riddle/Malleus) start to overthink so bad that they look beyond stress. It’s the thought that maybe you ran away from them or worse got kidnapped or lost. Which makes them have more of a reason to keep a tighter leash on you.

Ok but Kalim, Idia and Deuce cry like babies and throw tantrums.

Let the imagination work so think of Vil sitting on the kitchen table with his hair tied up and a face mask on while wearing a robe, a cup of coffee in his hands as he stares off into the distance that looks like he’s about to stab someone. He deadass thinks he’s growing grey hairs and has eyebags because his favorite punching bag is missing after two weeks. Who is he gonna step on now..

Gets pissed off:

Leona, Ace, Azul, Sebek, Epel, Jamil

“But why?” Is what they said when they perfectly understand the problem. Do they feel bad? No. In fact people like Leona and Azul can go through days without you because they’re always busy with something rather than terrorizing you. BUT you have to understand that as much as they pretend to not care they aren’t willing to clean up the mess after your pity party.

Jamil and Sebek are only mad about you disappearing is because of Malleus and Kalim’s whining. Please save them.

Ace and Epel are the ones who are mega mad as in a corny way. “How dare my punching bag run away from me and disappear for days!!” Typa stuff. Unbeknownst to them they double the insults and it makes you even more depressed lmaoo.

Ehhh Jamil may actually panic as well, because when Kalim isn’t happy no one is. And he does misses you personally, worries when he finds you (which is really scary to [Name’s] pov bc why is he so caring??) he’s all over you to make sure you aren’t injured or anything. Still pissed so he might slap the back of your head a couple of times and lecture you + same thing goes when Sebek finds you except he doesn’t comfort you.

Thinks it’s amusing:

Rook, Jade, Floyd, Trey, Cater, Lilia,

“Ohoho did I go overboard?” Yea you did. Anyways little shits don’t feel bad in fact they think it’s funny and cute that you disappeared because you couldn’t handle the insults and took it for granted. Lilia and Jade giving you false comfort just to do it all over again when you make a mistake. They probably already know your hiding spots and camp there to experiment how long it’ll take for you to come crawling back.

Maybe, just a little bit that Trey feels bad. He coddles you for a while then goes right back to gaslighting because he’s always right and when he says these things to you it’s because you’re wrong!! The type to restrict his affections if you decide to go into another episode of running away and crying. Cater knows where ya at bc you have location on.

At first Floyd was pissed because his resting place is missing, like bae where you go? But eventually he understands where you went because for some reason he’s bullying everyone around him and stalking your location to see where ya at. Mocks you once he finds you, really mean but it wasn’t “entirely” intentional. Like he knows he’s at fault and is trying to cheer you up by mocking your “problems”. Ok but don’t do that again or he’s going on the genuinely tweakin box.

We all saw Rook being in this section no surprise. Knows every little place you could be right now, has his eyes on you 24/7. “My love I didn’t mean to say your lips are chapped and you can use some Vaseline but the whole thing would be gone isa joke :(“ it’s not. Purposely picks out your insecurities so you can do another runaway.

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feyrescourt · 5 months ago

Text

This is a long and rambly discussion post for elriel nation btw so strap in

I want to preface this by kindly asking the elriel hive to not use any tags of #those ships if reblogged. I want to keep this in the elriel echo chamber. Please and thank u!

A huge part of fandom culture is to ship canonically compliant characters and crack ships. Everyone’s got them, and it’s totally normal, and it’s usually fun to engage with.

The majority of the time I have no issue with this (I am a wolfstar shipper and even though there is canonical evidence of them in the original HP books, they’re widely accepted online and balked at IRL usually due to homophobia and #that nasty, nasty woman’s bigotry), but over the last few years a certain group of crack shippers have taken it upon themselves to fly a little too close to the sun, and want to make it our (elriels) problem. I am talking about the Glees.

It’s late and this just popped into my head so I want to rant about it.

My friend who got me into ACOTAR gave me a breakdown of the ships (bc I read ToG first and went in blind. I became a doraelin shipper very early on and remained one halfway through QoS, it was a whole thing when I realized they were not end game lol), bc I asked her to after my ToG experience. She told me all the characters names and then told me about feysand and nessian endgames but didn’t mention az or elain’s situation. I asked her about it and she told me that she didn’t want to mention much about Az because “by the end of the series azriel has two options for how his story could go, elain or another way”. She shared some anti elain sentiment with me because she’s “boring and doesn’t do anything”. That went in one ear and out the other with me tbh.

When I started acowar, and feyre returned to the night court, I saw how elain and azriel were interacting and I concluded that mor was the second LI of az bc of acomaf. I was not apart of the fandom online at this point, so I was genuinely in the dark about everything around these two. I was just reading and talking to my friend about what I read. I also want to add that I still liked L*cien at this point in the series (it changed in acofas, I became apathetic towards him rather quickly when I finished reading that whiny ass convo with feyre…..I don’t play when it comes to her) but wasn’t sold on eluce because they had like one interaction and it wasn’t a great intro to a ship.

However this first meeting in acomaf….. :)

‘Can you truly fly?’ He set down his fork, blinking. I might have even called him self-conscious. He said, ‘Yes. Cassian and I hail from a race of faeries called Illyrians. We’re born hearing the song of the wind.’ ‘That’s very beautiful,’

“Rhys chuckled, Cassian’s wrath slipping enough that he grinned, and Elain, noticing Azriel’s ease as proof that things weren’t indeed about to go badly, offered one of her own as well.”

Well imagine my surprise when I finished acowar and it turns out mor (the person az has crushed on for 500 years) comes out to feyre before the book ends and she explains that she can never love az the way he loves her. After three books, and everything that happens in acowar it was clear to me that elain and azriel were being set up as each others love interests, despite the mating bond with l*cien.

After Acofas I was officially on the elriel train. I mean…

“Azriel strode to the lone window at the end of the room and peered into the garden below.”

“Azriel emerged from the sitting room, a glass of wine in hand and wings tucked back to reveal his fine, yet simple black jacket and pants. I felt, more than saw, my sister go still as he approached. Her throat bobbed.”

“But Azriel only took Elain’s heavy dish of potatoes from her hands, his voice soft as night as he said, ‘Sit. I’ll take care of it.’ Elain’s hands remained in midair, as if the ghost of the dish remained between them. With a blink, she lowered them, and noticed her apron. ‘I—I’ll be right back,’ she murmured, and hurried down the hall before I could explain that no one cared if she showed up to dinner covered in flour and that she should just sit.”

“Elain swept in, apron gone and hair rebraided. ‘Please don’t wait on my account,’ she said, taking the seat at the head of the table.”

“He [Azriel] was the portrait of relaxed, an arm braced against the carved mantel, his wings tucked in loosely, a faint grin on his face and a glass of wine in his hand. He slid his hazel eyes toward my sister without him moving an inch.”

“Azriel and Elain remained in the sitting room, my sister showing him the plans she’d sketched to expand the garden in the back of the town house, using the seeds and tools my family had given her tonight. Whether he cared about such things, I had no idea.”

(Damn the more I read elriel’s acofas moments the more I can’t help but conclude that they just hate/don’t understand introverts 😭)

Before I started SF, I decided to look at the online fandom and bitch……my jaw hit the floor with all the elain/elriel hate I saw on TT. And everyone was talking about a newer character in SF, and I was seeing the glee fan art and was like oh shit ok maybe elriel isn’t endgame.

Fast forward to SF……

‘What happened to Elain?’

“Nesta saw the blow land, like a physical impact, in Elain’s face, her posture. No one spoke, though shadows gathered in the corners of the room, like snakes preparing to strike. Elain’s eyes brightened with pain.”

……and I’m thinking ok, az obviously likes her. Then comes az’s BC. When I finished the elriel portion of the BC I was actually crying bc I was like oh fuck I really love these two….I knew it was over for me, and I was freaked out bc I thought I was going to get got with this “new ship” involving az. Plus I was thinking about elain being left alone in the dark without any explanation and feeling like an idiot for finally showing her true feelings towards him😭. It was like 3AM when I read it so I was hyper emotional lol. But then I read the rest of the BC and was still confused because I didn’t see any romantic subtext with g/wyn. I read it and saw a hurt male who couldn’t stand what he had done to elain the night before, was pissed at his brother for stopping it and making him feel bad when he was finally willing to voice what he’s been feeling for the past year or so and hating that he was shut down because we know he never voices his emotions, and couldn’t bear keeping a gift he picked out specifically for her. A necklace…..for solstice……Then I finished SF as a whole, and still, was confused as to why glee is a ship. Nearly all of their conversations were centered around training, and Sarah didn’t use any descriptors in their encounters that elude to any romance or mutual interest. (Btw I have a whole take on rhys’ part in that BC and I think a lot of ppl are dense and don’t understand what he was going through in that book but I can save that for another time)

Cassian and Feyre have more chemistry than those too lol.

I then talked to my friend about the these ships (elriel, eluce, and glee) ((i didn’t talk about eluce much in this post but that’s a lifeless ship too. I mean…..she can’t stand that red head anyway soooo)), and I said “I’m an elriel through and through. Idc that eluce are claimed to be mates you can tell she does not like him. also glee makes no sense to me.” Not verbatim but you get the point. My friend is very sensible so by the end of our convo, she told me that she’ll accept whatever way Sarah goes and that she’ll give elain a chance when her book comes out.

But isn’t that what all of this shit is about in the end: unjustified dislike/distain/hate for elain? That’s certainly how is appears to me. You cannot look me in the eyes and tell me that you love elain if you ship her with a male whom she has expressed, on multiple occasions, zero interest in AND becomes a shell of herself when he’s around because she just doesn’t want to interact with him. (I want to reiterate that I don’t hate L, I don’t think he’s awful or anything. elain just doesn’t want to know him. And that’s her right.) The glees don’t like her bc she doesn’t fit their stereotype for what they want in an FMC and therefore, for azriel. Which is why they have been chirping that the next book will be azriel’s. Not elain’s….WHAT??? You sound fucking crazy. The eluces (even though they claim they like her) dislike her so much that they go on and on about how she needs to grovel and apologize to the male they like because HE deserves to be happy……the same male who she associates with one of the most traumatic days of her life. Who also has not apologized to her for the part he played in that day, but I digress.

I say all that to point out that Glee specifically is in the crack ship category. No canonical evidence in the text can be used to claim they are ‘mates’ or endgame or anything more than acquaintances. And that’s fine, but don’t act as though they’re to be taken seriously as a canon ship when there’s no evidence to support it. Don’t boldly claim that azriel “has two love interests” when he literally doesn’t. He can’t sleep because of elain. He can’t stop thinking about her. He’s short with his family and others around him the days and weeks following solstice. His shadows threaten to strike nesta when she hurts elain and causes her pain. He doesn’t assign his spies to watch L*cien in acofas because he doesn’t want to know if he’s trying to court elain. He goes full lethal when he hears she may have been hurt. He follows the sound of her laugh to see what caused it. He goes on a suicide mission to save her. They communicate through looks alone when their family is around. Have you read an SJM book before? This is how she sets up her relationships. Like, holy fuck.

You cannot claim elriel is a crack ship because they have had background build up that both FMCs in their respective books have noticed and commented on. Cassian has noticed it too DESPITE not being hyper aware of what’s going on with az in SF. (referencing the scene in SF where elain tells everyone at family dinner about nesta’s love for dancing and the ball story from when they were human).

This ship war shit is fucking crazy because really this should only be between elriel nation and the eluces. Anyway, I’m over dealing with the fever dream brigade and their hallucinations. They’re going to come crashing down like Icarus when the elriel bible release day arrives and all our suffering will finally come to an end.

Then after that I’ll need to defeat the tamlin redemption arch threats, bc that is not a claim, that’s a fuckin threat and I won’t stand for it. But let’s tackle one problem at a time.

Pink: side notes/thoughts that give more context to my points

Blue italics: convos I’ve had being referenced

Purple: elriel moments <3

#this post is really just for elriel nation and my moots #crack ships should stay as such #because they are a crack ship #I refuse to use their full names ever tbh #pro elriel #elriel #the side characters will never be her main focus #she just cares about the ic #I hope there aren’t any typos lol

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