#This Ain't Sparta

[dootznbootz]

Menelaus rambles a lot about not only Helen, but also Hermione. About how she used to say Olive like "Olifs". How she lost her first tooth running too fast and running into a low branch while out with Helen. How he'd sometimes wake up to Hermione leaning over him and poking his face to say, "Dad, can we go see the horses?" even though it was barely daylight. How she was much nicer waking Helen and how he thinks Hermione did that on purpose because she found "dad's face funny". How her favorite color was every color.

And Odysseus listens.

And he thinks about how his son only had a few teeth coming in when he left, teething on everything. How he could only say one syllable with his babbles. How his son needed balance to stand but Odysseus was so proud that Telemachus was very good at rolling over. How his son loved pulling at his and Penelope's hair.

How his son would be talking, walking, maybe even lost his first tooth by now. And he doesn't even know if he'll ever know his son's favorite color.

[ghost-mantis]

Headcanon that Skrall as a species are essentially doomed on Spherus Magna.

Even though they are warriors of the highest caliber, 100,000 years of war, starvation, and the loss of every female of their species leads to a slow, inevitable decline.

Ruthlessly culling any member of their species that wasn't a high-class warrior meant that there was no investment in education or skilled labor. The only way their society functioned was to rely on pillaging and slave labor to obtain food, medicine, and essentially everything that didn't involve stabbing.

Given their very rigid social system, it didn't seem like female Skrall had much say or power in their society. On Bara Manga, the second they did get mental powers they were considered a threat and banished to the wilds. Canonically, the male and female Skrall also separated into two societies on Bota Manga.

After that point, the population replacement rate was 0 and the male Skrall were in an endless war with the Agori for resources. While they never really lost fights, that didn't mean that they weren't losing people to disease, injury, and old age.

And then Mata Nui came along and curb-stomped the only leader-cast member of their species they had left. The remaining male Skrall dispersed into smaller groups led by named Skrall or high-tier casts.

And then Teridax came along.

A huge portion of their remaining population was atomized when Teridax blasted their home in the Black Spike Mountains. The remaining groups decided to join the free-for-all fight between the Agori, Toa, Rahkshi, and Skakdi.

And even as amazing warriors in a normal fight, there's no way the Skrall did anything but get their shit kicked in against armies of beings with ranged supernatural powers. A sword is great, but not much use when all your opponents can do things like suck the oxygen from your lungs, or summon a mountant to crush you without breaking a sweat.

Plus, every Agori and Glatorian hates their guts and wouldn't hesitate to gut any Skrull injured or trapped by the absolute free-for-all that was Bara Magna.

Anyone who survived the bloodbath and subsequent reformation of Spherus Magna, including adding Bota Magna Skrull to their ranks, is still looking at a very grim future.

The Skrall are now outclassed by almost every sentient species (and most wildlife) on the planet in terms of power and resources. Their home and leader cast are gone, and they have no slaves left (all killed or emancipated by Toa) to produce goods or labor. Their species is still split into two societies by gender and getting together long enough to have kids probably isn't in the cards.

A few Skrall are hired on by the Dark Hunters, but given their lack of powers, they would be best as cannon fodder, or as combat trainers to beings with greater powers.

Every other remaining male Skrall group is going to have their shit kicked in by every other group the second they try to cause trouble. And the Baterra are probably still picking off warriors whenever and wherever they find them.

Their population has plummeted over the last 100,000 years and the remaining members of the species are essentially the last generation.

The best hope their species has is that the female Skrall, being less militant and having no mental powers left, join with Agori or Glatorian society. They might be closely related enough that they can have children with the Glatorian or Agori.

If so, any future Skrall are at most 50-50 genetically split with another species. Subsequent generations will have thinner and thinner Skrall genetics, and they'll be extinct as an individual species.

Given that they were absolute bastards as a species and society in-canon, that might be for the best. Banishing every member of your society that can have children, and then going to endless war with every one of your neighbors forever is essentially biological suicide.

[raccoongrippers]

I got bored, as one does in the middle of the frickin' night, waiting for a festival the next morning, so I read through every single comic I own (again), and wanted to draw the gladiators (Spartas, not actual gladiators, they just have nearly the same helmets) from 'Three' (comic book by Gillen Kelly and Bellaire Cowles). Here's how it went:

(Again, ignore my absolutely atrocious photography, my phone is ass.)

Anyway, I decided that Ghost from CoD would probably look good in a glad. helmet, so I might draw that eventually, who knows. I've seen another artist on Tumblr do it, but I have not attempted it myself. Bye y'all.

Have a lovely day❤

[gotstabbedbyapen]

hi! idk if you already did a post like this but do you have apollo and hyacinthus married headcanons?

A disclaimer first: When I say Apollo and Hyacinthus are """married""", I don't mean they are wedded like Zeus and Hera or Dionysus and Ariadne. What I mean is they are joint by worship and share a shrine in Sparta as a deity duo.

However, I do joke that Hyapollo are technically married because when Apollo's and Hyacinthus' cults were historically merged, Apollo replaced Hyacinthus' OG wife and kept the same relationship nature with Hyacinthus.

That being said, I haven't talked in detail about their """marriage""" life yet. I have a lot of ideas in mind that will end up in future works, so for now, I'll only write the headcanons about their first years.

Apollo kinda "proposed" to Hyacinthus when he offered him immortality. Its's a half-joking, half-serious "Do you want to spend eternity with me?" that can be interpreted as a marriage proposal.

Hyacinthus had answered with a "I'll think about it" when he was first asked because of reasons (complications with his mortal parents, worries over his new role in Sparta, etc.)

When Hyacinthus had made up his mind and intended to say yes after their game of quoit, he got struck and died.

Fast forward to Hyacinthus' resurrection and immortalization (it will be a topic of its own), he had been through years separating from Apollo and had done things to get back to his lover, so he can swear with his own head that he wants to be with Apollo forever.

Their first years of being together again was super rough. Hyacinthus has to deal with the physical and psychological aftermaths of being made alive again. But he is stubborn and will not yield to the sickness. It took him so much to get back to Apollo and he ain't letting all the efforts be in vain.

Apollo does not have it easy. He is helpless and cannot fully cure Hyacinthus from his condition because anything related to death fell out of his domain. He was constantly stressing over Hyacinthus' health and the fear of losing him a second time, maybe for good.

Only much later, when Hyacinthus' health is more stabler, do they finally get to breathe out of relief.

Apollo will not leave Hyacinthus' side for quite some time, always making sure he is in sight. He still had paranoia of losing him :( Hyacinthus also had panick attacks if he thought he would be sent to the Underworld again.

Furthermore, the years apart had changed both of them. They did not age (Apollo is a god and Hyacinthus is stuck in the age he died in), but they had trauma that drastically altered their personalities.

So during the first years of their "marriage", Apollo and Hyacinthus are trying to heal from old pains and learning about each other again.

It isn't easy for the both of them and their relationship may not be the same as before, but they still love each other very much and will try their hardest to make it work. Things will be alright, they hope.

[katerinaaqu]

Retellings is one thing, there's also this obsession with making the Greek Gods and Heroes as other races beside Greek. Like why the need to reimagined this Gods/Heroes like you? Why they need to have body shape/hairs/colour like you? Don't you know that these are cultural figures from the country it hail from?

Like never in my life I want to see Aphrodite looking like me or my people, I have my OWN mythology! If I want a mythology figure that show my culture and society, I just turn to my folktales. Why did the Greek mythos suddenly bear the burden to represent every single person/nation on earth?

You wanna claim that bc Greek mythology is mainstream? I think there's more nuances to it, bc no one in this world know my culture lore except the people from my own country but it doesn't stop us from appreciating our mythos and figures. And if we want to look at our own representation, we just look at our own culture. It's mind-blowing to me that these people can't do the same, and they feel the need to project their identity on another culture instead of embracing theirs.

☝️☝️☝️THIS! JUST THIS ANON!!! ☝️☝️☝️

Honestly I am not sure how is that even considered "empowering" or "representation" to swap existing characters with known background like this! Honestly if someone race swapped the amazing African Orishas to look like Greeks because "we need representations of Greeks in media" I would be insulted. I would be like "why? Ain't greek mythology important enough to create so that you need to insert my myths to African pantheon?"

And I have been called a racist for saying that! As well as other people who say the same as me too 🙄 like if you claim that "whitewashing" is so evil and erasing culture then how is it okay to do the opposite to Greeks (or even depict them as the other end of the spectrum like as if they are Norse vikings or something lol). And usually they do not use the excuse of "universality" or "mainstream" their favorite excuse is:

"There were black people in Greece and they deserve to be represented"

In other words they claim they are right and that anyone who disagrees is a bigot and a racist (the usual formula that is) and so they indeed hire literally any other kind of actors but Greeks or at least Italian and Balkan descend and they do not even make an effort to cast someone that remotely looks like the part sometimes (for example they casted The Rock to play Heracles in 2015. But at least they made an effort with makeup and the lighting of the film to make him remotely look like the part and the casting didn't appear bad or out of place to the degree it is nowadays)

So for once even if that were true (and so far we do not have plenty of archeological evidence for it) they were still considered foreigners and they were not always mingling with society. Where? Athens? Where foreigners even from other GREEK cities were not allowed to live within the walls? Sparta? That didn't allow anyone in their closed society? And we have no clue what was going on in Mycenaean world. But we know ancient myths were including people that Greeks were familiar with.

But do you still wanna go with your little hypothesis that let's say an Egyptian and a Greek had a kid that is mixed? Go ahead and create an original character with an original story. Why race swap an existing one with known story. I swear once I saw someone race swap Antigone. ANTIGONE! The woman was as inbred as she couldn't be more.

Another excuse they use is the modern day Greeks that are born out of immigrants. Are they less of Greeks than I am because they are of different ethnicity? Absolutely not. They are as Greek as I am nationally. They are born in Greece educated in Greece live in Greece. Are they ethnically Greek? No. There is a difference there. And antiquity especially heroes and characters with known backgrounds being race swapped is the same as me race swapping African Orisha with the excuse that "Greeks existed in Africa" instead of me creating an original character of it

And Greeks existed in Africa. We find cities of Greeks in north Africa all the time. Even Odysseus proves this. Lotus Eaters were probably Tynisian. We have Memnon the king of Ethiopia who has an entire poem dedicated to his people in Epic Cycle called "Aithiopis". Why isn't anyone properly representing those? Why do they feel the need to race swap existing characters to achieve that? And I couldn't have said it better Anon! Suddenly greek mythology becomes responsible to represent every nation on earth...instead of focusing at the amazing nations and their stories or myths.

If again the scream bloody murder on how extremely disrespectful old Hollywood was for not representing cultures properly then why are they doing it now? And if what they do is okay thanks to their excuse then why do they scream bloody murder for old Hollywood?

Which is it?

[athensandspartaadventures]

Athens and Sparta Adventures: Chapter 9: Libation Bearers pg. 4

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Quick Ref:

Hydria: A ceramic (or bronze) water jar. It ain't gonna fill itself!

Comments:

Why is she writing on the roof? Uh... why not? Gotta keep things spicy.

Corinth is totally hip with the kids she knows all about normal mother-daughter activities, definitely. She fills her own water all the time, toooootally...

[the-good-spartan]

Spartan Armour (This ain't it).

Some time ago, I was chatting with a friend, and I jokingly said that, if I was in the ancient world and stumbled across Brasidas dressed like this, first, I would think he was hot, but second, that he was an absolute loony - and he asked me why.

Since then, I've been meaning to do a post about it, and this morning I'm in the mood for assembling my thoughts - so here I go.

I'd like to be kind, but this armour is wrong in nearly every way. Evidence suggests that Spartans at this period wore only a simple helmet (crested for lokhagoi, at the transverse for the polemarkhos or war-king), breast- and back-plate, and greaves - Like this set, photographed by me (as I peered into them, wondering whose was the body it once protected?)

To quote Xenophon, our nearest-in-time source for the period of the Peloponnesian War:

'Now as their equipment for battle... they should have a red cloak and a bronze shield on the reckoning that the former presents the greatest contract with any female dress, as well as the most warlike appearance; the latter certainly can be polished very quickly and is very slow to tarnish.' [On Spartan Society, 11].

Cartledge adds to this our knowing there was a place called 'The Iron House' in Sparta as a basis to suggest that the armour and weaponry were provided by the state. I find this an appealing idea, though it is only speculation.

Anyway - to break down Brasidas' armour specifically:

I can 100% guarantee no Spartan was running around in golden armour of any kind - so let's assume this is polished bronze. Even then, Lakedaimon was a relatively poor country with a cultural distaste for luxury. They definitely did not do ostentation or conspicuous wealth. This whole set is way, way too flashy, even if the items themselves existed. However.

There was no such thing as bracers (arm armour): these were used much later, and to my knowledge, exclusively by archers. These weren't even a thing by the Roman period, so almost definitely didn't exist in Ancient Sparta - or Greece, more generally.

Even the use of a pteruges (the ‘skirt’) is contentious. Unlike bracers, they were in use in the Roman period, but there's no evidence that they were earlier. Brasidas' elaborate pteruges is way too much - even by the Roman period, the pteruges was a relatively simple series of 5 or 6 leather strips with simple studs. This pteruges looks like a wrestling/boxing champions belt - it's really crazy.

Brasidas would've been wearing a simple muscled cuirass as above; whatever his upper body is dressed in here didn't exist and is my favourite of these bizarre conceits.

It looks a little like lorica hamata, ie. Roman (at least the maile section does), though if it was like lorica hamata, it would slip over the head like a T-shirt, more or less, making the straps unnecessary. I am also dubious about how tightly the maile fits to his body - this would be very uncomfortable. I am not even certain that they used maile in Ancient Greece - I don't recall seeing anything about this, so let's leave a pin in this as being 'to the best of my knowledge.'

The upper solid section is so weird. It has elements that suggest it's leather (ie. it flexes) but in the game, it looks like metal, and the straps are certainly intended to be metal (to judge by very different textures used on obviously leather armour elsewhere in the game). This would be impossible to fight in.

Basically, all these elements did never, and could never, fit together to create practical armour.

The greaves are the right shape at the front, if I'm being generous, but the way they wrap around his calves like leg-warmers above his sandal is pretty wild. You can see in the second image below that this hoplite is wearing some kind of high sock - if I'm reading the statuette correctly - but it's a separate article to the greave.

His chiton is correct though. They wore 'em short - it's hot in Greece, particularly in Lakedaimon during high summer, and when you're wrapped in metal, you don't want to cover up any more than absolutely necessary. Check out how short these Spartans chitons are!

I totally get that they wanted to make Brasidas stand out - and he does. It's aesthetically pleasing, no doubt about it. But in reality, this is 100% pure fantasy armour.

If you look at some of the other NPCs in the game, all of the correct components are there to see - though seldom assembled together.

Tangentially to all that - I just have to mention the poor little guys who are just wearing a skirt, greaves and helmet.... What in the hell was that decision about? No one in their right mind, Spartan or otherwise, was going into battle in nothing but a perizoma and strip of fabric to protect their torso.

[ere-the-sun-rises]

Gripes about the Rome metaphor in Megalopolis

I haven't watched it and from what I've seen of it on youtube from reviewers I've watched, ain't no fucking way I'm going to. But as a Classical historian, shit about the Rome metaphor/analogy/allegory/whatever the fuck annoy the shit out of me.

Megalopolis is a Greek name and was a city near Sparta that actually existed, so jot that down.

Cataline's actual name was Lucius Sergius Catalina, not Cesar.

Marcus Tullius Cicero had a real life daughter - his only child, in fact. Her name was Tullia. At this period, all daughters' names were the feminine form of their gens (think of it like a clan) name (in this case, Tullius). That means renaming her Julia and having her hook up with a Caesar (ei. Gaius Julius Caesar, of Ides of March fame) is really fucking weird. It would either be his sister (bc Caesar had a sister - she was Octavian/Augustus's mom) or his granddaughter/niece (bc Augustus' only child was a daughter, Julia).

Cicero's actual motivations for running Cataline out of the city are unclear, and we don't know Cataline's side. Cicero won their little squabble, though, because he got Cataline killed.

Cicero didn't lose his popularity because of land disputes. He lost it because he had (at least) two men extrajudicially executed without trial and went a little god-complexy with consular power.

Cataline, as far as we know, didn't give a fuck about land redistribution. The only major Roman figures who did were the Gracchi brothers (150 years before Cicero/Cataline, and who were killed over it) and Augustus (who was emperor and did what the fuck he wanted to about it).

Cicero fucking hated Caesar (we actually have a letter he wrote to Brutus bitching that he wasn't invited) and Cataline died before the Triumvirate even existed.

Cicero eventually was killed off by Mark Antony.

Crassus was part of the original Triumvirate with Caesar and Pompey. He died first by suicide because he sucked (he was about to be captured by Persians), but Cicero liked him. We don't know how Cataline felt about any of the Triumvirate. Caesar and Pompey weren't sad he was gone, though.

Clodius Pulcher was on the prosecution team of a court case Cicero was part of the defense for, preserved in his Pro Caelio (In Defense of Caelius). In his speech, Cicero accuses a Clodia (possibly, but not definitely, Clodius' sister) of being a middle-aged whore for younger men who she would bribe them to sleep with her, and of a little bit of incest with her brother. This is likely untrue.

Roman courts didn't have a code of ethics. Whoever was most convincing won. Therefore Cicero could talk smack about Clodius and his family to undermine his credibility. We don't have anything else about the case, even its resolution.

Vesta is the name of the virginal Roman goddess of the hearth (equivalent to the Greek Hestia). The Vestal Virgins were a collection if six virgin women who served 30 year terms tending her temple in the heart of Rome anx keeping the Sacred Flame burning. Vestals were sacrosanct (meaning anything untoward done to them or their bodies was blasphemous as well as wrong) and if one if them was proven to have broken her chastity vow (specifically by having penetrative sex with a man), her punishment was to be buried alive.

Needless to say, the Vestals were arguably the singlemost important religious institution at Rome and very much not cheap entertainment nor virginity-kink fodder. Their virginity was incredibly serious.

You couldn't sleep your way to the top in Ancient Rome. That's not how aristocracies work.

If you're going to bring up Late Republican Rome, where are the civil wars? That's a huge part of what weakened the Republic and your movie is just rich people being elitist but not even right.

Cataline, Caesar, Crassus and Cicero are all from Republican Rome. We describe the Republic as having "fallen" because it becomes the Empire, but the truth is that once Augustus takes over, Rome is more successful and peaceful than she ever was as the Republic. So ... the metaphor doesn't work here unless you're saying the US needs a dictator to fix its shit?

None of these men make it into Imperial Rome. They're all dead before Augustus takes over, so they never get to see Nice Rome.

It's Augustus who turned Rome from "a city of brick, and I left it a city of marble" (from Augustus' Res Gestae)

Wow Platinum. That's all you got? Wow Platinum? You should have called HER Julia, since Augustus' daughter Julia got exiled for adultery and promiscuity and allegedly had a policy of sleeping around "when she had a passenger" so she wouldn't have a pregnancy scare with a lover. And if not her, then Agrippina. Both names belonged to women born well after all these men are dead, but at least the character would have made sense.

Cicero and Cataline were both lawyers and politicians. Neither of them could remotely be called philanthropists or inventers. And Caesar was pretty famously a general and wannabe military dictator.

Neither Caesar nor Cataline were ever accused of killing their wives.

Last, but not least - neither Cicero nor Cataline nor Caesar make thing better at Rome. Arguably, they make everything worse. So ... yeah.

I often appreciate artistic re-imaginings or interpretations that play with ancient figures or ideas. But the problem with this movie, which I can see without even having watched it properly, is that its metaphor doesn't work. The chosen characters just don't reflect what he's saying and the re-arrangement of characters and personalities makes the name-drops seem cheap, pretentious and frankly kinda stupid to anyone who's so much as read their wikipedia pages. The imagery and choices are incongruous with one another in a way that's grating and uneven and distracts from the point.

Rome doesn't work with the narrative because Rome's position doesn't look similar to the US'. Ancient Rome is about to see 300 years of unmitigated success after Cicero/Cataline, not its downfall (which will still take 150 more years after it begins to decline, and the Eastern Roman Empire carries on happily for another 200 and some after even that). Republican Rome is not analogous to the US.

[ducksbellorum]

full speed ahead (listen/download)

an argo ii playlist - the heroes of olympus - arranged by ducksbellorum

full speed ahead - epic the musical Every great quest aboard a magitechnical Greek warship deserves an equally great playlist, or at least that's what Leo tells everyone when he asks for their song choices. Six hundred men, six hundred miles of open sea But the problem's not the distance It's what lies in between

this is sparta !!! - sammy & lesen Obviously this was one of Leo's contributions; the bass gets him hype and the fact that he's bumping Spartan jams on a Greek warship just tickles him. Spartans, What is your profession? Spartans, Prepare for glory!

vode an - samuel kim Jason added this to the playlist; he doesn't know a lot of 'modern' music, but this track reminds him of Roman war chants and gets him going. Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an. Coruscanta a'den mhi, Vode an. Bal kote, darasuum kote, Jorso'ran kando a tome.

seven nation army - the white stripes Percy Jackson was tempted to add a joke track, but knowing Leo there would be plenty and besides, why not add something he actually wants to listen to? Everyone knows about it From the Queen of England to the Hounds of Hell And if I catch it comin' back my way, I'm gonna serve it to you And that ain't what you want to hear, but that's what I'll do

yereyira - papito & iba one Piper spent a lot of her life around spoiled pop musicians and their kids, so her music tastes tend toward the most obscure artists possible on purpose. Pa-pa-pa-pa-papito I-i-i-i-iba one Papito, Iba One Iba One, Papito!

shake it off - taylor swift There is in fact a Swiftie aboard the Argo II and it's Frank Zhang; he's a little bashful about it but that doesn't stop him from adding it to the playlist. I'm dancin' on my own I make the moves up as I go And that's what they don't know, That's what they don't know

over the rainbow - judy garland Like Jason, Hazel also doesn't know much modern music, but that doesn't hold her back from getting Leo to add one of her favorites to the crew's mix. Somewhere over the rainbow Skies are blue And the dreams that you dare to dream Really do come true

laughter lines - bastille This is Annabeth's pull; most of her music is lyricless for better concentration, but occasionally she veers into bittersweet indie pop, like this. "I'll see you in the future when we're older And we are full of stories to be told Cross my heart and hope to die I'll see you with your laughter lines"

sea shanty medley - home free If you don't think that the crew did some shanty singing on their journey, you're probably right but that won't stop me from hoping they did. She's a fast clipper ship and a bully good crew Away Santiana And an old salty yank for a captain too Along the plains of Mexico

bonus: spooky scary skeletons (remix) - andrew gold "Hey Nico, you want to add a song to the quest playlist?" "No." "Are you suuuuure?" "Yes." "I'll just add one for you, then, shall I?" "VALDEZ!" We're so sorry skeletons, you're so misunderstood You only want to socialize (But I don't think we should)

[strawberryblacktea25]

Trojan War Musical Jukebox Musical?

***Copyright laws did not exist in antiquity for mythology so they don't exist for a retelling of it today as well***

Jokes aside, ok no imagine this - A retelling of one of the most well known stories, originally sang, reusing songs from previous musicals. Fascinating concept already. I would change the lyrics of some of the songs to make it fit better with the Trojan cycle.

Ok Ok Ok Helen right? Give her and Clytemnestra Defying Gravity. Helen/Elphaba and Clytemnestra/Glinda. Sung the moment Helen flees with Paris to Troy (bonus points for having Paris just kinda sitting in the background like "ok girl sing your heart out our whatever; WE GOTTA GO").

Helen is talking about how she wants to leave the stifling life of a woman in Greece. She "chose" her husband when she was so young; how could anyone expect a child to make such a decision that will effect the rest of her life forever (a little bit like college these days huh)? She just kinda picks and doesn't realize fully what she just trapped herself in. She- a daughter of Zeus- is nothing more than a trophy wife; a vessel for children. She sees her brothers (one praised for also being a son of Zeus!!!) go and have adventures on the Argo. She wants that; She craves that glory and adventure too. But she can't have it. Why? She was cursed to be born with tits and a womb I guess.

She never wanted to be a mom. She wants to see the world; earn a name for herself. Her husband does not think she should. I'm not going to make Menelaus this comically evil abusive husband. He's not a "bad husband" but he's still entrenched in the patriarchy of the culture. He's very traditional and expects his wife to behave the same. He has power, she is the beauty (the MOST beautiful actually), she is the one who produces the heirs. He, like her own sister and the rest of society, try to gaslight her into staying put and looking pretty (those are deemed her "true" powers; not fighting or adventuring or whatever) Like, when they have Hermione, I don't imagine Menelaus "being upset they had a daughter instead of a son" type of gross. Instead he would be like "ah cool we now of a resource to marry off and increase our political power!" type. He's not abusive but he ain't progressive yaknow?

Enter Paris. Bro is the adventuring type. Loves exploring. I mean he was a shepherd/farmer who magically discovers he's royalty and is flung from the rural land to urban Troy. He even met some gods once (Ares first who gave him a positive vibe check and then three goddesses); man's the stereotypical hero (with no divine blood!). Imagine like charisma stat maxed out (probably had to pick it up for survival too). He is sent by Priam on a convoy for whatever reason to Sparta cause of it.

He was promised by the gods power, love, or military prowess. Since he was literally a Shepherd at the time he picks the wife. Problem is, it isn't immediate. He thinks he's a little cheated and finds it ironic how he practically gets the power point first. The enter Helen.

They fall head over heels for each other. It isn't immediate but they get to talk on the convoy mission since the head of the house is out on like a lass minute thing off somewhere else. The two vibe and get along. Helen loves hearing about his life/adventures and expresses wanting to do the same. He would love to have a permanent partner by his side doing so.

Then she wants to leave with him (defy gravity if you will... she is the daughter of the literal sky king after all). Let's say Clytemnestra is there cause while Menelaus is away, she wants to give her sister company and not be alone. Clytemnestra, at this point, is very entrenched in what society expects of her. Despite not being the one with divine blood in the family, she married a powerful man, is fertile (had three kids so far!!), and avidly looks forward to fulfill her duties as mother (like giving her daughter away for marriage :D). That last part makes the "I hope you are happy and don't regret your decisions bit" SOOOO extra fun.

Anyway before leaving the sisters talk. Helen tries to convince her sister to come and free herself, Clytemnestra is like "no you have delusions of grandeur". They would probably also talk about their kids. I am having Helen leaving Hermoine behind. Again, she never wanted to be a mother and was practically forced to have a kid. Part of why she is leaving is cause she knows she'll be expected to have another. Helen wants to leave all of her previous life with Menelaus behind. Also, raising a kid while traveling (which BTW unfortunately does not happen much cause the Greeks effectively surround Troy for ten years... again "hope you won't regret it") is not ideal. Helen does not wish harm on the kid, probably asks Clytemnestra to take care of her.

Anyway, Helen is done "accepting limits" and tells her sister if she "cares to find her, look to the EASTERN sky". She knows the society in Greece would not accept her and try to "ground" her. They will debase and defame her, calling her "wicked" for her rebellion. In fact, at the end, the guards start running toward the ship screaming exactly that. Now, I'm not imagining Troy as being this feminist safe haven, there definitely will be people there as well who will label Helen a whore or whatever. But I do imagine the culture there being a little bit more accepting to the idea of a woman having the autonomy and authority to make their own decisions (something that seems very threatening to Greece). Most of the Trojans end up being sympathetic to her plight (though maybe less as the war drags on).

Crazy idea right? Now I want to see everyone's face when Achilles drops the first line of Candy Store to Agamemnon. (Achilles is very Heather Chandler coded don't get me started)

[mossycobblestonearts]

i have decided that doodle box will be on mondays and fridays until i run out :) there was actually a bit more doodles than i thought, but still only enough to last about 6 weeks with biweekly posting

i said i'd try for stories but there ain't much for it

heart, star, and circle, are from the same page and day, they were on the back of i think my sophomore (high school) syllabus and were reactions to my first day of classes. captions [heart: I've trained for this, this is sparta. star: fuck me, he's one of those teachers "the bell doesn't dismiss you, i do." circle: new pen]. i do not remember drawing triangle lmao. i just like drawing eyes, i don't think square is a specific one.

[opinions-about-tiaras]

One of my best friends wrote her thesis on the way misogyny manifests differently in gay men then it does in straight men; apparently removing the desire for straight sex from the equation opens up whole new frontiers of "bitches ain't shit."

Some of the primary sources were pretty interesting in an appalling way. She had correspondence between upper-class British gay men from the 1920s fantasizing about the creation of a Utopian "new Sparta" only with it being even more of a He-Man Woman Haters Club. And just about every interview she did with lesbian activists from the 60s to the 90s (her scholarship stopped at the end of the century) included some variation of "the gays expected us lesbians to do ALL the domestic work in any joint activism or project, from bringing snacks to taking meeting minutes to stacking the chairs afterwards. It was just assumed that that was part of our responsibility."

haven’t finished watching the video yet, but the james somerton situation is making me sad.

the hatred some gay men have for lesbians and women in general is so vitriolic and depressing, but the worst thing is that it’s consistent.

many of the older dykes i’ve interviewed for my plays have stories of gay men shoving them off sidewalks, calling them “fish”, being so angry at the mere existence of dyke bars.

i’m just tired. i want it to stop.

[blacktopmemories]

Playlist for Saturday, February 3, 2024

Breeze - "Never Gave You" Hurry - "Something More" Gabby's World - "33" Gomez - "We Haven't Turned Around" Maritime - "It's Casual" Courtney Barnett - "Pedestrian at Best" Darksoft - "Staycation" Vacations - "Midwest" Lily & Madeleine - "No Part of Me" Joey Vann - "Sweetheart" Better Oblivion Community Center - "My City" Camera Obscura - "If Looks Could Kill" Copeland - "Chiromancer" Sleater-Kinney - "Six Mistakes" Frankie and the Witch Fingers - "Syster System" Future One - "Windows" Hot Rod Circuit - "Radio Song" Sparta - "Cut Your Ribbon" Weezer - "Say it Ain't So" Dr. Dog - "Alaska" Cactus Flowers - "Be Here Now" Ty Segall - "The Bell" Rockaway - "If You Know" Underwater Country Club - "Calling Back for You" Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks - "Chartjunk" xo -b. To download or stream the show, click here!

[katerinaaqu]

Was Helen in Troy for 20 years?

This is a very good question given how sources often contradict themselves as well. Sorry if this gets long! There is a passage in Homer's Iliad in rhapsody 24 during the funeral of Hector or the preparation of it. Helen joins the mourning women and says this:

"Hector, most beloved to my heart than any of my husband's brothers, for the godlike Alexander is my husband, who led me to Troy; if only I had died then! For it is the twentieth year since when I have come here and left my homeland"

(Translation by me)

So it seems like here Helen implies that she was 20 years in Troy. Other sources seem to disagree with this characterization and adapt a more moderate timeline; Helen was traveling around a year with Paris before settling to Troy plus the 10 years of war.

Unlike the Odyssey that has a clear-cut timeline that speaks about 20 years and counting, the Iliad is not as clean as that. Helen doesn't seem to imply anywhere else inside the poem that she was more than the years that the siege of Troy takes place.

Now Homer could indeed be literal and speak of an aparent 10 year preparation between Helen's taking to Troy and Hector's funeral and negotiations and such and there seems to be a record for a first gathering of the fleet before Aulis where the fleet suffered a huge loss from the winds. However one needs to note as well how Iliad doesn't take place at the 10th year of war but somewhere at the end of the 9th and the beginning of the 10th. So there seems to be one year left to be filled up. Now of course one could count the year where Helen roams about with Paris but there seems to be an interesting thought here; that Homeric texts used the term "20" here as to imply a very long time.

The term "20 years" here could be more equivalent to what we say nowadays "it took eons to do this" or "it took me forever" or "one eternity later". It is possible that Helen is not being literal here but implying she has been a very long time in there. I tend to side with this version more for many reasons; timeline that includes 10 years extra doesn't make much sense. It could imply that the characters involved in it are way above their 40s and that doesn't seem the case. Helen and Menelaus were ellegedly married for 10 years in Sparta. Even if Helen was married at 15 that doesn't seem to be logical to assume that she would be 25 when following Paris and 45 by the end of the war. That would make Menelaus over 50 at the end of the war, Odysseus probably way over 60 and Nestor like way over 70 if not over 80. Not to mention the few years that Menelaus needed to come back to his homeland and his shipwreck in Egypt. That would make him way over his 60s in the Odyssey and that doesn't seem to be the case from his descriptions (he ain't described as being old as opposing to Nestor in Iliad) As a timeline seems to be way too extended. What is more, it seems that preparing 10 years for a siege is not a very logical assumption either. Why would the Greeks wait so long to make a second ensemble? One or tops two years seems reasonable but 10? Why would they wait 10 more years to reach Troy? (of course here we have many local traditions that want to insert some heroes of the Trojan war roaming about the area before reaching Troy).

In one essence this timeline would be way too unreasonably extended even for mythology standards. So in my opinion when Helen says she was "20 years at Troy" she just implies "it has been a lifetime ago since I came here" or "it has been so long since I came here!"

But you can of course interpret it literally if you want. I hope that helps!

[centeralign]

Friday 5x5

Loma Prieta - Last

Makthaverskan - II

Brutus - Nest

Militarie Gun - Life Under The Gun

Brutus - Unison Life

Brutus - Burst

Sparta - Wiretap Scars

Tigers Jaw - Old Clothes

Refused - Songs to Fan the Flames of Discontent

Gouge Away - Burnt Sugar

Spiritual Cramp - Nah, That Ain't It / Phone Lines Down

Arm's Length - Everything Nice

newmoon - Invitation To Hold

Frail Body - A Brief Memoriam

Turnstile - Share A View

Team Sleep - Team Sleep (U.S. Release)

[goat-yells-at-everything]

Jesus fuck you ain't kidding!

People need to calm the fuck down.

Rosie used to have a little gray goat that looked similar to and was about the same size as Sparta. She ripped that thing to shreds. Never once did she even attempt to do that to Sparta.

The cat looks allert (maybe sorta concerned but not really) because of the commotion of the dogs rough play, NOT because the stuffy is cat shaped. :/

That stuffed animal looks suspiciously familiar

(via)