#Thesprotia

[gemsofgreece]

𝘉𝘦𝘭𝘭𝘢 𝘝𝘳𝘢𝘬𝘢, 𝘚𝘪𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘢 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘴 ||  Kᴏɴsᴛᴀɴᴛɪɴᴏs Lᴀɪᴏs

[epestrefe]

Mercedes Benz O322 της Βιαμάξ με αριθμό ανεμοθώρακα «20» στο ΚΤΕΛ Θεσπρωτίας, ιδιοκτήτης ο Κώστας Ντάνης.Στη φωτογραφία από τον Βασίλειο Παραμυθιώτη, επάνω, ο Ντάνης από την πρώτη ημέρα παραλαβής του λεωφορείου του από τη «Βιαμάξ», σε κυκλοφορία με δοκιμαστικό αριθμό τύπου «Μ».

Πηγή και περισσότερα στο:https://busoldtimers.blogspot.com/2014/10/blog-post_25.html

[shamsaddinmegalommatis]

Michael Pasiakos (1959-2023): an Obituary

Ο Καλός μου Φίλος Μιχάλης Πασιάκος (1959-2023), οι Αχανείς Αναζητήσεις του, και η πάντοτε Άφθαστη για μένα Σαγιάδα

Краткое содержание на русском языке в конце / Deutsche Zusammenfassung am Ende / Résumé en français à la fin / English Summary at the end 

Η γνωριμία μου με τον Μιχάλη άρχισε με μία ολότελα απρόσμενη πρόσκληση! Αυτή προερχόταν από μία χώρα από την οπ��ία δεν είχα περάσει ούτε καν για μία φορά τα προηγούμενα δεκα οκτώ (18) χρόνια: την Ελλάδα. Από τον Ιούλιο του 2001, οπότε είχα φύγει, ούτε είχα σκεφθεί να επισκεφθώ κάποια περιοχή της χώρας, ούτε είχα επικοινωνήσει με κανένα, ούτε και μου είχε κάποιος γράψει.

Περιεχόμενα

Ι. Ο Πεπερασμένος Κόσμος μου από το Μαρόκο μέχρι την Κίνα και ο Απέραντος Κόσμος του Μιχάλη στην Σαγιάδα

ΙΙ. Περιστατικά της εξ αποστάσεως γνωριμίας μας

ΙΙΙ. Όταν η ανταλλαγή μηνυμάτων μετατράπηκε σε επικοινωνία με emails

ΙV. Όταν ο Μιχάλης αυτο-προσδιορίστηκε: Άθεος, Αναρχικός κι Αγρότης!

V. Οι τελευταίες επικοινωνίες μας

VΙ. Una furtiva lagrima ή ξηροῖς ἀκλαύτοις ὄμμασιν;

Επίμετρο

Краткое содержание / Zusammenfassung / Résumé / Summary 

Ήταν Νοέμβριος του 2019 και, ως συνήθως, βρισκόμουν σε πολλά ταξείδια. Όλα άρχισαν με ένα μήνυμα που δέχθηκα στον λογαριασμό μου στο μεγάλο πόρταλ academia dot edu. Είχε αποσταλεί από τον Μιχάλη και ήδη με την πρώτη ανταλλαγή μηνυμάτων με προσκαλούσε να δώσω μία διάλεξη στους Φιλιάτες, μία μικρή πόλη της ΒΔ Θεσπρωτίας την οποία είχα πολύ παλιά επισκεφθεί για μόνον μισή ώρα, ένα απόγευμα του 1964, όταν πήγαινα ταξείδι με τους γονείς μου και ένα ζευγάρι θείων μου στην Κέρκυρα.

Ποτέ δεν ξέχασα εκείνη την βανίλια-υποβρύχιο που είχα απολαύσει σε ένα καφενείο της πλα��είας απέναντι στην εκκλησία της κωμόπολης. Όπως και ποτέ δεν ξέχασα την αποτυχία μου να πείσω τον θείο μου να μας οδηγήσει από την Ηγουμενίτσα, όπου εφθάσαμε αργότερα και εβγάλαμε αρκετά νωρίς τα εισιτήρια για το φέρρυ μπωτ, στην κοντινή Σαγιάδα, εφόσον η απόσταση ήταν κοντινή και ούτως ή άλλως, θα περιμέναμε ακόμη για 45 λεπτά μέχρι τον απόπλου για την Κέρκυρα.

Όλα αυτά είχαν για πολλές δεκαετίες παραμείνει βαθειά στις χαράδρες της μνήμης μου αλλά αυτόματα ανασύρθηκαν στην επιφάνεια χάρη στο μήνυμα-πρόσκληση του μακαρίτη πλέον σήμερα Μιχάλη. Ωστόσο, μου είχε φανεί παράξενο να προσκληθώ να μιλήσω σε μία πόλη, την οποία εγνώριζα τόσο λίγο, για θέματα της ειδίκευσής μου, τα οποία τόσο ελάχιστα θα ενδιέφεραν το εν Φιλιάταις φιλομαθές κοινό. Με άλλα λόγια, τα τόσο αντιφατικά στοιχεία μιας τέτοιας πρόσκλησης ντε φάκτο με έκαναν να ενδιαφερθώ για τον μυστηριώδη αποστολέα.

Ι. Ο Πεπερασμένος Κόσμος μου από το Μαρόκο μέχρι την Κίνα και ο Απέραντος Κόσμος του Μιχάλη στην Σαγιάδα

Έτσι και εγώ, πριν απαντήσω, ανακάλυψα .... the United States of Σαγιάδα, ή για να είμαι πιο ακριβής, τον Μιχάλη ... dans tous ses états! Δηλαδή μυήθηκα στα ατελείωτα μυστικά και στα άγνωστα σε μένα πιο πριν αλλά ιδιαίτερα σημαντικά τοπία και μνημεία, περιστατικά και γεγονότα της περί την Σαγιάδα Θεσπρωτίας που τόσο θαυμάσια και τόσο πλουσιοπάροχα εκείνος αναπαριστούσε στο μπλογκ του.  

Και σ' αυτή την τόσο απίθανη και τόσο ξεχωριστή ικανότητα του Μιχάλη οφείλονται οι παραπάνω όροι τους οποίους εδημιούργησα κάθε τόσο επισκεπτόμενος το -εξαιρετικό και βαθύπλουτο σε γνώσεις, στοιχεία, αναλύσεις, περιγραφές, τεκμήρια και ιστορικές φωτογραφίες- μπλογκ του, La Bastia (https://labastia.blogspot.com/), όπου εκείνος, με αναφορά στην παλαιότερη, ιταλική ονομάσία της Σαγιάδας, με πρωτοφανή συνέπεια, με ανεξάντλητη επινοητικότητα, και με υπερβατική αγάπη επέμενε να παρουσιάζει ακόμη και την τελευταία πέτρα της Θεσπρωτίας σε όλες της τις διαστάσεις.  

Συνεχίστε στο PDF

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Download the obituary in PDF:

[travelsandwandering]

After years of working and living in Greece, I wanted to share another one of the wonderful villages I got the privilege of working in. It is stunning and away from the mass crowds on the islands and around the tourist traps.

[atdutiesend]

I've mentioned Phobos' twin sister Persephone before, but little about their mother Demeter.

The Lethe family has a long and complicated history with Amaurot; from the day the treaties were signed, Thesprotia has been a part of but separate from Amaurot proper. Those residing in Thesprotia are subject to Thesprotian Justice. The people there, while oft confused for proper ancients, are truthfully dryads descended from a world tree they refer to as Grandmother.

Like many of her ancestors, Demeter claimed the seat of Halmarut when the need arose in ancient Amaurot and held it in good standing. She chose a mate from among the ancients and bore a pair of identical twins before returning her focus to her duties. She taught them little more than that children were for display and then to be put away and be silent until their formal education began; even then silence and compliance were expected.

Phobos and Persephone rebelled in their own ways; Phobos honing his silence and genially cool demeanor into potent weapons and simply going around the rules and obstacles Demeter laid down. Persephone challenged the woman with the appearance of recklessness, deliberately and pointedly cracking her mother's pristine reputation at every turn.

Determined that her eldest would be the perfect daughter and follow in her footsteps, to say she was enraged that Phobos chose gender affirming care and reforging his identity with the support of his twin and dearest friends would gravely understate the situation. When Demeter attempted to bar him from Thesprotia until he 'came to his senses', Grandmother intervened - such a rarity that even those outside the body garden took note of it.

Shortly after Phobos' marriage to the then-current Emet-Selch - properly done in Thesprotian ritual - Phobos, Persephone, and Emet-Selch hatched a plan to rid themselves - and Thesprotia - of the bitter woman. Phobos approached his mother with a seeming compromise, that he would take the seat of Halmarut as she wished, if she would just step down.

Demeter took the bait, naming him her preferred successor - only for Persephone to take the seat instead, while Phobos snatched the headship of the family from under Demeter. The woman banned from Thesprotia and judged wanting by Amaurot, she left to visit the groves of her sisters and aunts, searching for a method of revenge.

It emerged in the form of a newly-appointed Azem summoning Emet-Selch to her aid in a truly rotten and decaying grove. Before either Convocation member could call in backup from the twins, Demeter triggered a deadfall that dropped Emet-Selch into the roots of the grove's mother tree, leaving them to die to Thesprotian Justice. Azem, unaware the trap had been deliberately sprung rather than being as ancient as the grove, returned to Amaurot with the horrifying news.

Phobos retreated to Thesprotia, refusing to take on his spouse's former seat and nigh paralyzed with the grief - unaware of the true fate of spouse and mother both.

[lyculuscaelus]

“πολλῶν δ᾽ ἀνθρώπων ἴδεν ἄστεα καὶ νόον ἔγνω…” (of many men he saw their cities and learned their mind…)

Ok you stop right there Homer. Tell me the cities you speak of.

Are they…

Ismarus: bro you just destroyed their city…and “learned their mind” on revenge. That surely counts doesn’t it

The land of the Lotus-eaters: bro you just sent three men to eat lotus, and you weren’t sightseeing at all cuz you didn’t even mention any city

The land of the Cyclopes: bro you went to a cave, not the city—if there was one, that is

Aeolia: bro that’s a god, and his children too

Telepylus: bro they’re giants

Aeaea: bro that’s a goddess, and no city

Hades: …

Thrinacia: bro they’re cattle and sheep, and still no city

Ogygia: bro that’s a goddess, and still no city

Scheria: yes definitely, the Phaeacians, and their Xenia

Home sweet home

Final count: 1, honestly

Ok so that’s a “lot” of cities to see…right? Enough for you to use the plural ἄστεα, right Homer?

That doesn’t compute.

Now seriously, what are the cities Homer was talking about? It can’t be the ones Odysseus had visited before the war (cuz “ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν:”—“after he sacked the sacred citadel of Troy”), and now that we’ve seen, they’re not really included in Odysseus’s return. So is it actually from other versions of Odysseus’s story, or are they nowhere to be found?

Unless…if you’re including his oar quest after his return:

“ἐπεὶ μάλα πολλὰ βροτῶν ἐπὶ ἄστε᾽ ἄνωγεν ἐλθεῖν…” (since he (Teiresias) has ordered me to go to quite a lot of cities of mortals…)

Problem solved. Homer was talking about something that’s not even in his epic at the very beginning of his epic. what a clickbait smh /lhj

Again, seriously, the part of Odysseus’s return is actually included in the next two lines: “πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γ᾽ ἐν πόντῳ πάθεν ἄλγεα ὃν κατὰ θυμόν, ἀρνύμενος ἥν τε ψυχὴν καὶ νόστον ἑταίρων.” (at sea he endured many pains in his soul, striving to secure his life and the companions’ return.) (and of course he didn’t get the latter) and judging by the forms of the verbs (ἴδεν, ἔγνω, πάθεν are normal aorist verbs, while ἀρνύμενος is a participle), line 5 is the continuation of line 4 while line 3 and 4 are parallel to each other, each summarizing a journey that Odysseus undertook (line 3 is about Ody’s oar quest while line 4 and 5 about the Odyssey). This is a brilliant design.

And it might indicate that Odysseus’s second journey is of some importance too.

So, Homer, tell us the cities you speak of. We would like to know.

[infirmux]

OHHHHHH i have been trying to figure out how alexander is related to cassandra for five thousand years but if he is the lion & the argives are the persians that makes perfect sense. okay sorry everyone who i have accused of lying on this matter very loudly in front of vast audiences

[allmythologies]

greek mythology: dione

dione was the titan goddess of the oracle of dodona in thesprotia, and the mother of aphrodite by zeus. her name is simply the feminine form of zeus. dione was described as "the temple associate" of zeus at dodona. the three elderly prophetesses of the shrine, known collectively as the peleiades, were probably her priestesses. these women were named "the doves" after the sacred bird of dione's daughter aphrodite who also posssessed a temple at the shrine.

[katerinaaqu]

opinions on the telegony? do you think it deserves all the hate it gets?

Well for starters one must think that Telegony is yet another piece of ancient literature; written for a specific purpose of its time. People are of course mad at it because it has some fundamental differences with the style Homer has. And here come the differences and contradictions

In Telegony,we follow from where Homer left things and follow as Odysseus goes to his redemption trip to the mainland (according to Tiresias prophecy), we also have Circe who has apparently not just Telegonus but plenty of children with Odysseus. She sends her son to Ithaca armed for whatever reason with a spear poisoned with a stingray poison. Telegonous shipwrecks in Ithaca and for some reason again proceeds performing Piracy where he and Odysseus clash unknown to each other who is who till Odysseus gets stabbed by the stingray poisonous spear and dies and the last moment he recognizes his son and Telegonous him.

Now that is not the worst part of Telegony per se for Homer fans. Apparently during the trip of Odysseus in Thesprotia he gets married to queen Callidice and bears a son with her named Polypoetes. So the first contradiction here is that Odysseus gets married while Penelope is still alive and waiting in Ithaca. Which seems odd given how Odysseus was refusing the advances of two goddesses and one young princess in the Odyssey to go to his wife. Here he appears to marry another woman while Penelope is alive and waiting. Not only that but he remains in Thesprotia till Callidice dies and establishes his son to the kingdom before turning back. Also he seems not to return to Ithaca hastily not necessarily to see his wife again but to defend his property against the piracy of Telegonous. Which again seems to be a massive contradiction to his character as portrayed in the homeric poems Then there is the contradiction of his death. According to the Odyssey Tiresias predicts that he will find peaceful death in ripe old age out of the sea. This story definitely doesn't sound peaceful way to go. So we have contradictions to the Odyssey material already regarding Odysseus alone.

Also seems to be a certain level of irritation with the ending of Telegony that wants Telegonous after the burial of Odysseus taking Penelope and Telemachous with him to Aeaea where Circe makes them both immortal and then they proceed in a cross-marriage; Circe marries Telemachous and Telegonous marries Penelope. Now other than the fact that the modern audiences do not really stand such unions people critisize that Penelope would never marry her husband's murderer. Well I am only thinking how much would Penelope blame him or not (given that neither party was aware) but I believe we also see there is the pattern where Telegonous is in a way her stepson given how he is the illegitimate son of her husband. Such unions were not particularly approved for mortals even in ancient Greece (although here Telemachous and Penelope are technically gods so here we enter in a different sphere)

Either way I must say that indeed Telegony seems like a messy continuation of Odyssey or rather an attempt of it but one thing that must be said is that it wouldn't be the first time that a post-homeric writer basically changes the hell out of the homeric characters. I very rarely find a post-homeric version that does proper justice to the homeric characters. Eurypedes even makes Odysseus much more dislikable and even Menelaus who was the number one Odysseus supporter after Diomedes is portrayed badmouthing him (see my other humorous post about it). Odysseus is no exception given that from roman writers like Virgil till Conon who makes him want to backstab no other but Diomedes to get full credit for stealing the Palladium of Athena and failing no less, there is no doubt that Odysseus was not as heroic or as complicated to all post-homeric writers.

I believe what bothers most people is that Telegony has passed in history as part of the Epic Cycle because it takes things from where Homer left them so historically it was used as continuation/sequel despite the fact that it contradicts fundamental parts of the original homeric poems. Most likely Telegony is an epic poem that is based on local oral traditions that were created in order to place Odysseus as the mythological progenitor of thisspecific area of Thesprotia and show the greek roots of th area. Apart from that I do agree with those who do not consider it "canon" to Epic Cycle the same much as I do not count Eurypedes's tragedies as part of the Epic Cycle. It is definitely a piece of ancient literature that follows the pattern of Epic Cycle and is worth analyzng for its contents and what information it gives us for ancient Greece and the ancient past but yes I doubt one can call it an actual "sequel" of the Odyssey. Too many contradictions.

So yeah "hate" would be a strong word here but I definitely agree to those who do not consider it actual continuation of the Odyssey. Is it part of ancient literature? Absolutely. Does it have information to give us? No doubt but yes I do not consider it Epic Cycle the same as I do not consider roman scholiasts as necessarily accurate given the negative representations of homeric heroes but I study their interpretation anyways.

I hope this answers the question.

[moiroloi]

Itsa of Sasma or, The Backwards Dance (Η Ίτσα του Σάσμα ή, Ο Ανάποδος Χορός) by Vassilis Nitsiakos, dir. Konstantinos Markellos. Ancient Theatre of Gitana, Thesprotia, 2024.

[imheretocausechaos25]

OK SO THE TELEGONY (it sucks)

Ok so the Telegony and why i hate it honestly it's the Same reasons Everyone else has!(Telemachus sleeping with circe, telegonus marrying and having kids with Penelope)

My hatred for that damn emo fanfic of a myth gods where do i start??? It literally just puts everything to shame especially the thing about Odysseus Line, Each generation can have only one son so it's literally Impossible for telegonus to have existed (and the kids ody had with calypso but for me those don't exist either) It's also impossible for telegonus to exist because odysseus only slept with circe once (not willingly mind you,hermes literally told him that the only way to survive circe was to sleep with her,if you say he cheated i will sew buttons in those fucking eyes) here are reasons why the Telegony is shit

1:the Telegony is a Greek myth retelling fan fiction by a Roman author that was made way after the odyssey of homer

2: odysseus having a child with circe,that child whole quest on finding odysseus to just kill him on accident ( tiresias said in the myth he'll go from old age)

3: telemachus marrying circe Wtf??? And telegonus marrying Penelope and both having children WTF

4: Why does Telegonus even know how to fight, he has lived on the same safe island all his life and how tf did he win???

5:Alot of stuff don't go with the original myth for example: zeus declares that odysseus line will only have ONE son per generation (so telegonus NOR the sons ody had with calypso can't exist. Periodt AND DON'T TELL ME ODY WANTED TO SLEEP WITH CALYPSO! HE DIDN'T WANT IT,READ THE FUCKING BOOK IF HE WAS A WOMAN YOU WOULDN'T BE CALLING HIM A CHEATER)

6:Ody only slept with circe once (not willingly,hermes told him the only way to survive circe minus the plant he gave him was to sleep with her) and kids need more than one try to get em Also like.Odysseus was on Circe's island for a year, wouldn't he have known if Circe was pregnant?

7:Thesprotia arc doesn’t make sense,One of the reasons the Thesprotia arc makes no sense

Odysseus apparently lived with that woman until she died

How old are they all by the end of everything???

8:Not just that Circe wasn’t seen pregnant in the Odyssey—it’s been one year since they had sex and there’s not even a child. So you see how this won’t happen

So yeah it's really frustrating that people think and portraying ody as a cheater because of the telegony and firmly believing it's ending after the Odyssey when it's literally a walking fanfic of someone wanting to recreate a Oedipus version of the odyssey of homer

[grumpyascianteddybear]

Themis Cosmos/Elidibus Bio

Born to Irida and Ambrose Cosmos, Themis was a much-loved child. His parents were ever attentive, perhaps too attentive. They often were too concerned, preferring to keep him home as much as possible. Their son could get hurt outside in the wider world in too many ways. Because of this, he was home-schooled until he was old enough to put his foot down. He wanted friends and other kids to play with. Unfortunately, even when he was finely put into normal school at thirteen, he had no idea how to interact with the other kids.

Observing and letting others come to him was easier, which didn’t happen often. Even then, that didn’t yield any real results. Most thought he was the weird quiet kid. It wasn’t long before the bullies zeroed in on him. Sure, it wasn’t something that was looked on well in Amaurote, but kids were cruel. Themis learned that the hard way, and after a few months, he was about ready to go back to being homeschooled. At the same time, he didn’t want to give up when he had to fight so hard to get this. 

One day it all changed, though. As the bullies had started in on him, they suddenly backed away. He didn’t understand why. Themis also wasn’t keen on staying there to try and figure it out. As he turned, however, he saw a girl walking toward him. The whispers he had heard had made him steer clear of her. Hadianna was not the one to mess with, more vicious than any of the normal bullies. At least, that was what the rumor mill stated. He had never gotten a good look at her before now.

He tilted his head, blinking at her. This was the vicious Hadianna Thanos? She was a good few inches shorter than he was. Themis was sure he could easily pick her up and walk away with her. This tiny thing sent all those bullies running away from him? Was she really that nasty? She certainly didn’t come off as intimidating to him. That might be because he had only been in normal school for a few months. 

“ Would you like to be friends? My name is Hadianna.”

Even her voice was small, though there was extreme confidence there. It didn’t make sense to him in the slightest, but he also wasn’t on the receiving end. Even so, he agreed to try and be friends. He really didn’t know how friends worked, but trying wouldn’t hurt anyone. Perhaps he would learn how it all worked with her. It was worth it to him to try.

The next few weeks were strange to him. She always came to him, finding him without fail. Her presence kept the bullies away and well. He wasn’t sure how it happened. Themis was so bad at interacting with other people his age. Yet, she didn’t mind and let him fumble through it all. He supposed that also made the bond so strong in the end. 

The next year was not kind to him because she could not come with him. But she was still there after school, and that made things better. Once the next year came, he was practically living at her house. The couch was his home because he didn’t want to deal with his parents. He would sometimes sleep at Thesprotia so her parents didn’t get in trouble. His parents kept screaming at him for being friends with her. She was a bad influence because she always got into fights. They didn’t want to listen about her fighting for those that could not against the bullies.

His relationship with his parents became more strained as he left school. Though Hadianna was no longer getting into fights, she was still a bad influence. Why? Because instead of doing something academic, she took to art and started to sell her paintings. Gorgeous landscapes that made her more money than both his parents did. Galleries clamored to get a hold of her pieces, yet she was still a bad influence.

Themis was never so happy when he moved out of his parent's house. He ended up in an apartment in one of the inner city residential districts. He hung a painting he had bought from her in his living room above the mantle. The aurora borealis with the like below looked beautiful above his fireplace when his parents visited the first time. He made a point of pointing out that it was one of Hadianna’s paintings.

As time passed, he saw less and less of his parents, more so when he was taken under the wing of the current Elidibus. His relationship with Hadianna also bloomed into one of deep importance. Through her, the world's doors had been opened for him, and he would forever be grateful for that. He had friends and a found family that made it clear his parents were not the end-all-be-all. Eventually, he would even take the seat of Elidibus and serve the star alongside Hadianna’s father and mother.

Unfortunately, this happy time would not last as a calamity was soon upon them. The Convocation worked tirelessly until they found something that would work. They had to rewrite the laws, and they would need to summon a being with the power to do so. As an excess of light-aspected aether was the cause, they would summon a god of darkness. It was simple enough, given that opposites would cancel each other out. 

But to summon something with the power they needed would take half the population. Though it was something that was agreed upon, it still left a sour taste in his mouth. That taste became even sourer as Mitron came to him. At first, he had brushed the other off, Logrif was to be the heart, and that was that. He had his own loved ones to reassure and take care of. Yet the man whittled him down until he said yes, which would forever haunt him. It would forever be his one regret.

The summoning went by in a blur, and he became the guiding hand. A few months were spent within Zodiark, listening to the hums and voices of the others within him. In these few months, the people began to argue, and he felt the need to pull away from the collective. He could not truly guide the people while within Zodiark, so he removed himself so they would have a guiding light to lean on. 

Then it happened, the fighting started, and the world was ripped apart. Only three of them were left unbroken. The star, Zodiark, and everyone else was left fragmented and broken. This, this was not how it was supposed to go. They were supposed to recover and be saved; now, all that was lost. It all needed to be set right, so they set about doing it. It was a thankless job that took eons, and as it was done, he lost more of himself to The Collective. 

TThemis became Elidibus as he lost more and more of himself. Forgetting his name and those that he had once cared for. Yet, these things were not truly lost. The Collective kept these lost pieces closely guarded. Sometimes they would even give pieces back for a time so that he could perform his duties. His loved ones' pieces were guarded even if he was unaware of it happening. 

The road is long, and he walks it only half there…

[alisaineurope]

Epirus, Greece

Arta

Ioannina

Preveza 

Thesprotia

[atdutiesend]

{ Phobos || Rambling HC }

I've been meaning to type this up for a hot minute and cannot be arsed to put it together all nicely, SO

Everybody has different headcanons about how long the ancients actually live, so the actual numbers in here are very flexible. I'm choosing to say an average lifetime for an ancient is 2-3k years, with adulthood tentatively recognized around 1000. 3k tends to be on the longer side, more expected of a Convocation member than your average citizen. With that in mind, at the time the Elpis shenanigans took place, Phobos and Lahabrea were around 6k, and had very few peers left, if any.

(If you HC the ages to be greater, the intent is for Phobos to be roughly a peer to and not notably younger than Lahabrea, but ancient even by ancient standards. Specific verses may play with this to make him even older - He's seen the raising of three separate Emet-Selchs, so particularly old Selchs will see him proportionately older.)

So why has this bastard stuck around so long? Well, the first Emet-Selch he saw raised to the seat was his spouse. I default to husband, but again, specific verses change this. They married shortly before his husband ascended to the seat, Phobos compelled to propose by an old superstition about not marrying a sitting Convocation member because it was effectively marrying the seat rather than the person. They were a toothrottingly sweet couple in private, and had adopted children almost before the ink was dry on their records, with the intent to raise more together. Part of their vows to each other included an intent to return to the star together, or failing that see the other's final service to the star completed before returning themself.

Much like the current Azem calls friends to aid them on the field, when Venat was first starting out, she sometimes called on the help of fellow convocation members if a mission required their expertise... and a particularly large and dangerous tear in the underworld on the far side of the star required Emet-Selch to seal it. He went without hesitation. Unfortunately, the tear proved difficult enough to repair that doing so saw him dying in the process, body lost to the rift.

Venat was the third person on the very short list of those Phobos declared Thesprotia would not hold, though she was the first given a provisional recourse. Reincarnation was not yet a proven theory, but should his spouse return to him in another life, he would rescind his ban... but neither of them will return to the star until that unlikely event comes to pass.

In some verses, it does, but Phobos was still in no rush to return, preferring to enjoy a lifetime with his spouse after a lifetime without them. And his services would be needed in the aftermath of Zodiark's summoning.

[lyculuscaelus]

In general, the mythological picture Homer and other ancient writers were trying to provide us in their poems is quite different from each other in many aspects. One of which is the lore about Odysseus. For example, in a Homeric world, Odysseus’s family is a line of single sons, as Telemachus has pointed out in the Odyssey, book 16, line 117–120:

ὧδε γὰρ ἡμετέρην γενεὴν μούνωσε Κρονίων: μοῦνον Λαέρτην Ἀρκείσιος υἱὸν ἔτικτε, μοῦνον δ᾽ αὖτ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα πατὴρ τέκεν: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς μοῦνον ἔμ᾽ ἐν μεγάροισι τεκὼν λίπεν οὐδ᾽ ἀπόνητο. 120 The son of Cronus makes our family a line of single sons: Only one son—Laërtes, did Arceisius beget; Only one son—Odysseus, did his father (Laërtes) beget; then Odysseus, begetting Only one son—me, left me in his halls, and had no joy of me.

Also, it’s not just Telemachus using dramatic here and I stand by my point. Might rant about it at some point but for now, let’s just say the word μούνωσε (its 1st person present indicative form being μονόω) is extremely interesting here, and another thing to keep in mind is the use of Dios boulē in the Odyssey, which also deserves some ranting of its own.

Now, back to the topic. The choice of words here is presumably deliberate, as Homer is trying to establish his own version of the story and suppressing some other epichoric traditions. (Creative liberties is certainly not just a modern concept fellas but anyways) Therefore we have our so-called Homeric tradition, which is the result of the omission of a number of local traditions, plus his unique portrayal of characters as a treat. Keep in mind that this is not the only version of the story (but certainly the most intriguing and influential one), so you would notice something off almost immediately (say, Dictys Cretensis and the Telegony). Now, there is only one point I’d like to bring up:

Don’t pretend that those non-Homeric stories could still work well within the Homeric tradition; and don’t expect certain Homeric rules to apply to other non-Homeric lore.

Again, back to our example. The one-son-per-generation rule is most certainly Homeric and can only stay in a Homeric setting. You do not apply this to Theogony and certainly not the infamous Telegony. On the other hand, the Telegony is NOT a sequel to the Odyssey, but rather tells a different story which is set after the time of the Odyssey. That Odysseus seen in Proclus’s summary of this poem is certainly not the Odysseus we know of, and chances are that he was exile by his people while this is invalidated by the ending of book 24 of the Odyssey, and the oar quest might not even have happened in the Telegony.

Yes, I know that some may find the angst potential of Nausinous and Nausithous (this includes me) or the painful death of Odysseus (you lost me here) irresistible, but keep in mind that they’re in a different setting now, and the portrait of characters is likely different. But that doesn’t mean you can’t explore the story itself. In fact, it’s even more intriguing to see how our beloved Homeric characters would behave in these non-Homeric settings. Giving Odysseus a chance to be the father he never was is angsty as hell; putting Odysseus in Thesprotia after him facing family issues also brings the story itself to a new level (glances at Smitty 👀); etc. After all, one could even say they’re fanfic ideas set in different AUs, waiting to be explored by future writers…

So…yeah.

[dokodemoissho]

Thesprotia graminis hatchling (~2cm long)

"American grass-like mantis"