#The concept of stone does not sound healthy in literally any other sexuality

[antiyourwokehomophobia2]

I wonder why lesbians are the only sexuality where a subset of us will have sex but refuse to be touched by our partners. Like. No other sexuality has that, I'm pretty sure.

[doctorhoe]

Thoughts on River?

Complicated.

1. First of all

For this to make sense you need to know that when I first got into Doctor Who, I didn't watch the episodes in chronological order. That was because it was a friend of mine who first introduced me to the show, and the first ever episode she watched with me was Time Of The Angels/Flesh And Stone. That also means that I didn't know anything about the library, which did influence my view at first, I think.

So, after my very first 'encounter' I was pretty neutral. I liked the mystery that surrounded her but I had problems imagining the Doctor and River actually becoming a couple. I simply didn't care for that part of the character, I was more into the whole 'who did she kill?' thing. Around the time Doctor Who had first started to devour my life, I began to get more and more into her relationship with the Doctor aswell. I was really hyped at first. People had told be about it and the whole concept sounded amazing.

The problems started to arise when I actually watched through Eleven's seasons. There were holes were the actual relationship should have been, things being implied that never paid off. I just hadn't really realise that because, until then I had always assumed, that all those things missing were merely parts of the story I hadn't seen yet.

But the truth was that they just weren't there.

2. So, where does that leave us?

I do not like River Song. But I wanted to like her. And part of me still does. She had some great moments and is played by an amazing actress. My problem is that I never felt like I could actually tell who she was as a person. Her entire personality was built around a concept and while that can work, from a writer's perspective it just is not advisable when it comes to love interests. Romance is something that needs to be character driven. This is something I sincerely believe as both a writer and a consumer of media.

River's concept was great but therein lies the problem: Because her character was always put back, behind that amazing mystery. It's almost comical how much River's existence revolves around the Doctor and the wedding/murder mystery. She literally would not exist if it wasn't for that.

And remember, that plot was the one that originally interested me. Why did she kill him?

3. Moffat's answer: She is a psychopath.

The answer to all questions, apparently! Don't question her actions — she is a psychopath! Don't ask why she fell in love with him all of a sudden! She is a psychopath! Non of her actions make any sense but that's ok — she is a psychopath, alright?

In short: She falls in love with the Doctor, because she is told that she will fall in love with the Doctor. Great. Oh, and speaking of Let's Kill Hitler. That was the point when I officially gave up all hope.

4. River's character is a big Meh.

River's character is entirely based on tropes. Now, I'd actually advise untrained writers (such as myself) to sometimes use tropes as an inspiration. But a) you will eventually need to move on from that trope and built an actual character where it merely functions as the basis and b) Moffat is not an inexperienced writer.

River is the Femme Fatale and the Tragic Romance trope shoehorned into each other and while I actually like the latter, in combination these were unbearable. The Femme Fatale trope stems from a time when women's sexuality was still viewed as sinful, so the only female characters that were allowed to own their sexuality were evil ones. That whole sassy and sexy behaviour, that people tell me is so very Feminist™️ comes from a sexist trope. So while I can't deny that Alex Kingston looks awesome making a Dalek beg for mercy, kissing the Doctor to poison him and flirting with the people around her, all that comes from the trope she is built on and it shows! Moreover, it doesn't go with the kind of love tropes Moffat uses to bring Eleven and River forward, so you can see her switch between the two sides of her. And it doesn't feel natural.

I hate to compare her to Rose but: Throughout series one, Rose is characterized as a very caring person. But one of her main flaws is that there is sometimes a hunch of pity for the people she cares for, the belief that they can't help themselves. Gwyneth remarks that, although Rose deeply cares for her, she still thinks Gwyneth is stupid. This is a character flaw that is established in the very first episode. So when Rose safes her father in Father's Day or when she gets mad at Mickey for going out with someone else even though she left him, when she bluntly tells him that there is "nothing left for her" at home, we are not really surprised. Still, she is there for people, she cares for them. But that doesn't erase her selfishness and vice versa — her sometimes egotistical ways do not taint her. She is caring and selfish both at the same time. Two characteristics that seem like they couldn't work together — empathy and compassion paired with selfishness — actually make for an interesting and (even though I hate that word) complex character.

River, on the other hand, is always just switching between being The Woman Who Loves The Doctor and being The Perfect Psychopath. There is no nuance. She fits the trope of the Femme Fatale so perfectly, it's almost laughable (sexy, cunning, uses her sexuality to try and kill someone. Also, notice how she is always flirtatious in her Kind Of Evil Mayhaps?? Moments?)

5. River Song's relationship with The Doctor is a big Yikes.

A few weeks ago I watched a video on YouTube that talked about Doctor Who. In that video, the romantic relationship between the Doctor and Rose is painted as the worst part of season 1 because of the age gap between the two. Now, I'd of course argue that Rose is not only over 18 but also never forced into anything. The relationship is shown to be healthy. But that's not my problem. My problem is how in the same video, Moffat is praised for writing a "complex and nuanced love story".

Funnily enough, he, who said it probably thought he was making a compliment here. But what he really did was just summing up what is inherently wrong about the relationship: It isn't romantic — it's complex. But a love story doesn't need to be complex — I'd actually argue that the simpler the better. The only complex thing there should be in a written relationship are the characters.

It isn't even complex, it's just needlessly complicated. We are given clues, hints at a relationship, even after their supposed wedding, so we don't realise that any actual information about their romance is missing. Never (until The Husband Of River Song) are we shown an intimate, romantic moment that isn't in any way compromised by either the Mystery Plot™️ or his knowledge that she is going to die.

(Now, I have no idea where that "nuanced" comes from because all of the relationship is black and white: She hates him; she loves him suddenly. She is the woman who kills him! Why did she do that? Oh, she was forced. She never even falls in love, she just accepts that she will.)

6. The relationship is tainted from the very beginning.

The Doctor knowing that and how she is going to die, like many things Moffat does, sounds amazing on paper. In reality it prohibited any actual healthy relationship from ever developing. Whenever the Doctor is with her, he is secretly suffering because he knows what will happen. And that is not a good thing. When you are so focused on making things "complex" you may forget how actual healthy relationships work: Both parties in them need to he happy. Love and devotion aren't enough.

Not only that but the Doctor as a character cares about a lot of people. He loves a lot. So, creating a relationship between the Doctor and another character is difficult, as you have to truly make their relationship stand out. When RTD did that with the Doctor and Rose, it took him essentially two whole seasons, in which Rose was constantly present as a main character. Moffat took a half baked, cool sounding concept and gave River cameo appearances.

They also constantly have to force themselves on each other because of their time line thing (— something that, again, sounds cool in theory and is hindering to the relationship in practice). The scene when River first kisses him and he is very obviously uncomfortable and doesn't know how to react is just sad. Not tragic, not romantic, just sad. Communication is literally impossible because they are never on the same page! Please, tell me, how is it so hard to grasp that romantic relationships are supposed to be romantic?

7. Also River is supposed to be bi.

I do no longer identify as bi. But when I first got into Doctor Who, I did. And I never felt represented by the hints that were giving about River's supposed bisexuality. I was starving for bisexual content at the time, yet most of those hints flew over my head. Jokes are not how you write representation, unless you are writing a comedy show! That is, however, all I'm going to say about this, as I am planning on making a post on that topic (cheap representation in the Moffat era — literally all lgbt characters that aren't Bill).

So, all in all, I don't like River because she represents everything that is wrong with the Moffat seasons: Character arcs that are concept driven, the sole usage of tropes when it comes to the writing of female characters, cheap representation and a misunderstanding how relationships (should) work.

[knightofbalance-13]

A talk about Shipping, Aspects of it and “Queerbaiting”

http://invested-in-your-future.tumblr.com/post/158720729690/heres-something-that-has-been-lowkey-bugging-me

Sure it is cool to see a fandom that actively enjoys the setting enough to immerse themselves into it and create original characters, original pairings, original stories etc. Remnant is a world that relies on the community for it’s existence and Rooster Teeth’s main source of income is the community actually supporting them, so this speaks miles about the strength of the setting that is dear to so many people. Dozens upon dozens of people found it interesting enough to create and imagine things beyond the “canon” story. There are dozens of fanon pairings, pretty much every character with every character has ship name and some sort of fanon fiction - even if those characters never ever met. There are backstories and headcanons for almost every character.

And yet I have seen this person attack the fanbase directly and have seen this person directly attack the setting and environment in the show and not once say it’s their own personal opinion. And as well see, this seems more like their covering their own ass.

So get ready, I am about to delve into some very complex stuff here.

But there’s a downside to that. And the downside is that it is so damn easy to use the existence of fanon to discount the possibilities, implications and pairings within canon. And it does not take long to realize how that happens - after all the most common way to try to “downplay” a pairing is to question its canon status. Its a VERY common problem with homophobic people literally ignoring a pairing existing or claiming “people are just seeing things”.

Oh boy, this isn’t good. Okay, let’s dissect this and show off the problematic points:

A.) Canon is canon, it is fact. Implications are not canon until they are confirmed to be so and even then they just becomes fact. Implications are so wide and varied that accepting them all of as canon will cause a lot of confusion like the implication Raven gave a shit about her kid or the implication that Qrow’s Semblence was just shapeshifting.

B.) The only time a pairing exists is when they are canon, when they are in a committed relationship. There are only three canon ships: Taiyang X Raven, Taiyang X Summer and Ghira X Kali. That’s it. As heavy hinting that Blake Sun in going to become canon, it’s not canon. And that’s fine. Shippers shouldn’t be aiming for a ship to become canon because sometimes what we ship isn’t for the best, most of the time it’s wish fulfillment. Even I don’t ask for my ships to become canon and I ship people who I find to be healthy for each other (White Rose, Black Sun ect.)

C.) You are seeing things. You’ve admitted it in the past and you show all the signs of a rapid shipper: attacking people for miniute reasons, using buzzwords like “homophobia” misinterpreting friendly connections as shipping  ect. I’ve seen ot all before in my previous experiences in the Pearlshipping community, minus the homophobia thing but I’m going to return to that. n truth, for someone who doesn’t give a shit who Blake or Yang end up with (or anyone: might be best for those two considering Blake’s abuse and Yang’s probable abandonment problems) let me say: I haven’t seen that much ship tease between them. No more than any other pairing in fiction: this isn’t Moka and Tsukune levels of ship tease-at best it’s Tsukune and Mizore. (Look them up with “Rosario Vampire manga” SPECIFICALLY the manga!)

D.) I don’t want to hear you talk about Homophobia when you have attacked Sun and Jaune and people who disagree with Bumbleby: In all reality, you display a case of Heterophobia than they do. people can dislike a homo pairing but not be homophobic. I don’t ship Bumbleby but I do ship White Rose so....what’s you’re answer to that?

And that is EXTREMELY easy to do in a community where fanon aspect is so big. Its so easy to discount RT baiting Blake and Yang(AKA the biggest ship in the fanbase), Weiss and Ruby(lately way less than usual, to be fair) or even Neptune and Sun(which the writers love to bait during interviews and stuff almost as much as Blake/Yang). Its so easy to NOT SEE the said baiting and write it off to all the fanon - to the idea that people “got tangled up” in all the fanon being created and mistook that fanon for canon. What’s worse - its easy  for such a line of though to appear to those OUTSIDE of the RWBY fandom, which can easily lead to the issues present in the writing and RT behavior overall being downplayed or taken for “misunderstanding”.

Again, let’s dissect this:

A.) The reason why Bumbleby is so popular I the fandom isn’t due to them Ship Teasing Blake and Yang (I will go into why the concept of “queerbaiting” is an  honestly counterproductive one later) but rather because Monty confirmed that there will be an LGBT character in the show which drew in that crowd and Yang and Blake are the most sexual characters in the show. Ruby is way to innocent to be shipped all that much as people have trouble thinking of her that way and Weiss was ahted for a while so people would gravitate to Yang and Bake. I also don’t find it that unusual that the two more attractive characters in the show are the ones shipped together. Again, wish fulfillment.

B.)  You need to provide links to support these so called arguments because some of us don’t watch the interviews or anything of the such. Without them, your argument falls completely flat.

C.) Again, you have stated yourself that you are looking at things that aren’t there with the Korrasami and Bumbleby parallel and with all the symphtoms you’ve displayed, you are doing it for Bumbleby in general. They teased the shit out of Arkos despite Pyrrha’s fate because i9t was popular and ut got people watching the show. They would be doing the same for the other popular ships. yes, it is manipulative but it’s so common place now that you just have to accept it: Ship Tease is a athing, doesn’t confirm your ship to be canon.

D.) Here’s the thing about Queerbaiting: it definition is as follows: “when people in the media (usually television/movies) add homoerotic tension between two characters to attract more liberal and queer viewers with the indication of them not ever getting together for real in the show/book/movie“ Does this definition sound familiar? Change “Homoerotic” to “romantic”, “Liberal and queer” to “romatics” and you have Ship Tease. That’s all it is: Ship tease specific to the homosexual. What this tells me is that homosexual people believe that they belive their ships should become canon because they are queer or their ship is. Because there has been hetero-baiting before: Using Avatar, I have no doubt in my mind that the writers knew Zutarra was a huge ship so they kept hinting at it to get people who would like Zutarra to keep watching. Same thing with Rosario Vampire in which Kurumu X Mizore was hinted at a lot but they never got together, just as Tsukune never got with Kurumu or Mizore. It’s a common writing technique: put in some romance for romance fans. All writing  by definition is emotionally manipulative.  I see no difference between the two expect for sexuality and that should never be a factor in a ship becoming canon. Just as a hetero ship should become canon for the sake of it being a hetero ship. the same goes for homo ships as well. You want equality? Don’t go around demanding stuff beyond equality because of your sexuality.

Hell I already saw arguments in line with that and how “fandom is trying to force a pairing upon the writers”. Which is silly because in reality it is RWBY writers who added all those scenes and clues and subtext for Blake/Yang. Bumbleby fandom did not just somehow “will” it into existence via fanon. Beauty and the Beast references, interactions, THE WHOLE VOLUME 3 FINALE, etc - its all in the show. Its all there. Yet many will use the fanon argument to try to downplay the scenes that already are in the canon.

... Can’t believe I have to bust out this music but:

A.) People do force a ship on the writers. Just as I have seen people yell out “MAKE BUMBLEBY CANON ALREADY!” I have heard the same number yell out “MAKE BLACK SUN CANON ALREADY!” There is no difference between these two besides one partner.

Just because you have ship tease of your pairing that does NOT give it an absolute right to become canon. It never has and never will. Learn it, you’ll be much happier. I know for a fact.

“Beauty and the Beast” Yang is not beastly at all and it’s clear ADAM is the Beast of them all. Even if he isn’t, as a Fanaus, SUN is the next one in line for that.

“The WHOLE VOLUME 3 FINALE?” What, that one scene of Blake crying about yang losing her arm which is just her being said that someone she cares about (NOT loves, cares) is hurt because of her or that Yang is being abandoned yet again? Because that’s two scenes and only one is focused on Blake. It keeps sounding like you only watch RWBY for the ships and that’s just disgusting.

No, they are probably saying that is JUST ship tease and that DOES NOT make Bumbleby canon. Same for Black Sun, WHite Rose, Lanacaster ect.

And then again - whats wrong with writers accepting something fandom wants?  What’s wrong with that? Narrative of any works is fluid. Things change, things develop, writers gain new ideas or change their minds all the time. Usually story is a fluid concept with only certain plotpoints set in stone. Unless there’s some huge plotpoint tied to a romance(which would be stupid in the first place), there’s literally no downside in writers capitalizing on what fandom likes.  After all Korra and Asami chemistry was first noted by the FANS and then writers recognized it and made history.

Because it’s pandering in that Yanga nd Blake don’t have the best chemistry between them, Blake and Sun do; Blake could be a bisexual but attempting t tel me Yang isn’t straight and didn't hit on the four attractive females she was around all the time is dumb and there are people who DON’T want that thus you are excluding them. LGBT people were excluded for so long and now you want to exclude straight people? This is sounding suspiciously like the white Fang: Reverse discrimination....

yeah and their sexualities are pretty defined. Ruby is he only one who isn’t defined by her not being sexual yet. It makes sense for Weiss to hide that considering her jackass of a father and maybe Blake considering her abuse but Yang has no problems thus she should have been shown to be a bisexual early on. She doesn’t gaze over girls like she did guys so I have no reason to see that. You complain about retcons..then demand a retcon.

Yeah and here’s the thing: A LOT of people got pissed off by that. I didn’t watch Korra but a guy who did explained the feeling to me and explained the feeling. So unless it was hinted that Korra herself was bi and noyt straight, that was a terrible move.

Yet its so easy to use fanon as an argument, as a defense, as a shield, as a tool. Its so easy for Miles and Kerry(or less tolerant parts of fandom) to hide behind the huge existence of RWBY fanon - it gives fuel when one feels the need to defend against allegations of queerbaiting and it gives an extra defense from negative press due to reasons I outlined above.

.... SO the fandom is bad for tehw riters when they won’t do a homosexual ship but it’s good if that forces them to do it...

*Sigh* Fuck this bullshit. Also, I think queerbaiting is going to be one of my Berserk Buttons from now on.

Final Thoughts: this person needs to chill. there’s being dedicated to yoru ship and then there’s being obsessed. I have seen this person attack people with SUn Avatars for having SUn avatars, demands their ship become canon despite it being counter productive to equality and contradicts themselves. In essence: your average rabid shipper. Nothing more, nothing less.