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Podcast with S. Jaishankar -External Affairs Minister of India - How India will Rise to the world's third largest Economy.

Full interview Read Blog Link - https://indianbigbuddies.blogspot.com/

Interviewer: one of the most laudable successes that you have achieved in the circles and in

For my audience, India's stand on Ukraine Russia war is very clear.

You Said that India will take our interest first and then bow down to anyone else and

we did not buckle down to any big super power, neither Russia nor the US, we did what we did best so if I Ask personally whose decision it was to take a stand, what was your decision, was it with the cabinet's decision or that it was PM Modi's decision.

My point is I'm asking this on social chatter and every buddy you meet

All the people you meet find it very correct. Finally, this bold form of New India is very much appreciated.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

The thing is that the oil we took from Russia, we could have taken it from Russia also, in any other ways. Have Said Something Could Have Done Something That Couldn't Have Been Maintainable, somewhere the world would digest and understand that second country like India should not do that. It also you know today we are a big country I mean we are the fifth largest economy and the most Popular Country we are looking at great future ahead so why living with fear.

Know You Can't Rise Without Being Clear and Third You Know I Was Very Confident If we explain to people, see, I still say this, these press people are behind me. Sometimes I fall into trouble when I sit with other governments and explain to them.

You know I tell them see you are the one who used to buy oil and gas from Russia.

What did you do if it was stopped or reduced? You went to the Gulf and after you went there

Before we used to go there, so you increased our prices and then you said that do not take it from anywhere else then you understand our position and if I tell you the opposite, if suppose we did not take gas and oil from Russia. We are among the top oil consumers importers in the world.

What would have happened to the energy markets, if the price of oil had increased all over the world, then we would have done you a favor in a way.

We have actually stabilized the market, now sit down and explain to them.

Logically they don't have an answer but I Feel you know

Even you talked about Ukraine and China

if China is on the border Trying to put pressure on, I think we should be straight with China that brother you do, what are you and if you do this there will be consequences so I feel it is important that you know.

Under Prime Minister Modi ji is Like a team we work we keep meeting we interact with each other there is a kind of a government.

You internalize the feeling automatically

I Express What Is Actually the Mood of The Country I Mean This Is This Was Not You Know Jaishankar Personal View I Think the Reason People Responded Was Everyone Said Yes Brother That's It should be said that this is what we think is logical for India.

You know this.

Interviewer: The question is that those who were talking about Russia and Ukraine, the weapons deal we had not performed as well as we had thought and Russia's focus has now become on making weapons for their war, right and at the same time, the Western World is providing weapons to Ukraine and is not able to support them very well. At the same time, they are also doing it on Gaza and amidst all this, China is increasing its capacity a lot in terms of weapons and Making the Military Power So what will be the foreign policy of India in such a situation and what can we do because at this time We cannot trust that Russia will support us because it is funding its own war, nor can we can trust Western countries because they are supporting two wars, Gaza and Ukraine, so what do you think India will do at this time?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Trade has not completely stopped whether the defense trade is Western or Russian.

Their production is so big that they can even fight a war in some areas. I am sure you are right in saying that there are shortages in the areas, but the suggestion is that it is actually in Self-reliance to a country like India, if you, I tell you this, A country like India Can Send Mission to Moon and Mars.

You Can Make Weapon Of Course We Can Off Course we can You Know It Is Question of Leadership Vision Commitment I

I Am Convinced very much convinced This Is the Feeling of Prime Minister too And Frankly

The Whole Team Are Capable of Much More Than We Have done.

Interviewer: I was reading a story that when Pakistan killed 40 Indian soldiers of

India, we applied a zero-trade policy with Pakistan. But when China attacked and killed 20 soldiers of India the result is that today the trade between India and China is the highest at 126 billion dollars, of which India's deficit is around 100 billion.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

So, we fight with every enemy or not enemy is the right word with everyone who attacks us or disputes over something, we have a different way of dealing with it than we do with China.

Interviewer: Do we are a little afraid and bully because it is a bigger country.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) No see, it is not with particular China, there is one or the other way to handle things for every country. The natural way is different, the relationships are different, their capability is different so it's not the same every time.

If that was the case You Don't Need People Like Me. Countries would have been on autopilot, you would have taken out the book and then stepped in. If you drive it as per the manual, you will have to assess its strength.

Our Strengths Their Weaknesses Our Weaknesses What is its Other Results Side Effects

what you are saying? Let me explain it to you a little. See what has happened.

That in the last 30 years, China has become the center of manufacturing in the world.

If you look at the world's manufacturing’s unit it has gone from about nearly 30 percentage are made in China, what happens is that whatever you do, there are many supply chains which goes through China.

then suppose you said,

Like this has actually happened here in India reality, this is our situation during the time of Covid Pandemic.

When the pharmaceutical industry made its mark in the world, our pharma exports Which has suddenly started increasing, now if your pharma exports have started increasing then you will feel the need for this. Base material, API and bulk drug were required from somewhere, now this the case. State of the Economy The world's economy is such that the only place where you can get That is China, We’re in One Way Today Which is the challenge of trade with China which we have faced here for the last 30/40 years.

You are seeing the result of not preparing yourself. At one time we used the same API

We were very famous in API, we closed that industry and let it go to China.

In the 1990s and early 2000s we gave So What Happens Today and you see that there are some people here who say that we should not do manufacturing at all, so when we try to do they oppose it. Here, people accepted your argument on the basis of environment.

Economic progress has been hindered in different ways, making it slow today.

We say Make in India, what we call self-reliant India, or whatever it is, you will see it in a year.

You cannot suddenly change what has happened in the last 40 years in 5 years or even in a decade. It may take time but once you start doing it you will see the impact.

What you are seeing today as I say these are being made in India

Today Actually Our Exports Are higher than before

This China Dependence Is Actually Not Only India's Problem It Actually a Mean Look At even Country like America

America also became dependent on China means globally

Supply chain should not be connected to one center, it should be multiple sources and this is our try.

Interviewer: You know, while we are talking about China and India, I have a question.

The lists of financially smart countries like Africa

they get to know a little about the approach, like India's approach is that whenever India goes to a new country, Local enables, educates local people and enables local businesses.

and how can they run sustainably? What China does is very one-sided. Their idea is that they go there with Chinese workers and take Chinese workers there, they build their own infrastructure and, in some way, or the other, we trap another country in debt, then when Countries like Africa, like what has happened in many countries within Africa, where there are some issues of governance. Anyone can get their work done by force or by different means, so it is very difficult for those people.

It becomes easier to take the Chinese way instead of the Indian way like this.

What will be the strategy of India in comparison to other countries around it?

Are the allies like Africa that you talk about or with whom we have friendship, that they can turn into debt traps to big players like China?

Could India prevent them from drowning or getting trapped in the debt game because China is more powerful today economically and their pockets are also deeper than ours, they have more money too. How can India prevent this at time?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

We can absolutely do it and this is not the problem of only Africa if we look in our neighborhood, this is the danger within our neighborhood overall. It is also clearly visible since last years.

The solution is that we make ourself an option so that if there is a decision, they should feel that there are three-four options in the world, amongst one of which is India.

There may also be some westerns, so if you consider yourself a serious option you will definitely see that many countries are coming to you.

Once you give them that option, whatever settled leadership they feel they can go for

Who are a little experienced and who have had some bad experiences before?

If it has happened earlier then they will definitely recognize it, now in the last decade I have seen that Like you said in Africa, you have countries like Tanzania, see they have seen that development issue is a big one. The water projects that we are doing under "Jal Jeevan Mission" in India is the same. Capability and the same experience and the same technology that we offer in Africa also If they can do it then they feel that yes, we have seen that these people are doing it in their country. If they are doing it on a large scale, then they definitely have some kind of strength in it, so we should also approach them. Get benefited of it.

I am taking an example like their education. So, we wanted some Engineers in Africa

There is a lot of shortage of engineers in Africa, so they wanted their people to come to India and study at engineering colleges over here in India. We thought why not establish an engineering college there and we gave this challenge to IIT and IIT Madras has just given IIT Zanzibar. There are some countries which have established railways. They’ve looked at our rolling stocks, looked at our track laying capabilities, some have looked at IT, so I would say that if we have to become a credible option in the world, first we have to show it in the country, once we can show this in our country then can also impressed others because if that is only a paper solution

Suppose,

If I come to you and say sir, I can make a rocket for you will say ok, tell me how many rockets have you made? Where did you run it, how did it cost us?

The progress that is taking place in the country is not having any impact within the country.

There is a lot happening in the world these days whenever I go out and this especially

after Covid, the world is very interested in our digital progress.

The eye is on our digital progress and the reason is the same reason that we did it in our country.

It is said that at some place of the time there was a lot of leakages and corruption.

There used to be names in the accounts, I don't know how many were fake names, how much money used to go missing, you know, there is an infamous statement that one rupee coming out of Delhi becomes 10 paise by the time it reaches to the beneficiary, so this used to be like that in the 90s, we closed this by digital technologies.

People are in sync with one another; one thing is governance improvement that you need right now.

If I give an example in regards of Indian Passport I can say this from my own direct experience, there was a time I mean let me be very honest no one gives passport without bribe in this country you have to go to some officer and get Some Testimonial That Brother My Name Is this and so , You Know He Didn't Even Know You Still Would Give You That Piece Of Paper And In Between agents who had to pay and touts outside every passport office.

Today you go to Passport Seva Kendra and you see how clean it is just so it can be Good Governance Meaning More Honest Comments You Know Cutting Corruption It Can Also Efficient Government Governance: The same passport which used to take you six months, used to take you a year, now see you in two weeks or three weeks Last week "Bill Gates" was here you know I mean,

He comes he tells me every time he comes to India, he says you know my eyes are shocked I can't imagine the kind of things I See Out Here So You Feel

Interviewer: So, the Way We're Growing with Pace is the answer to overtake or prevent other countries because So Why I'm Asking You Think About What Happened to Pakistan right Pakistan technically got trapped in the Chinese debt trap and now it has become little bit threats for us also, then other countries will also slowly become threats if we do not take fast action. If we did not try to prevent fast then

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

NO, I do not think that way, people would have become much more woken up in a different way, People Today released that be careful, who is your friend and who wants to trap you to debt? It doesn't mean that you don't believe anything how good is the offer in such a situation. Just think a little, just like we give advice to our family members. Isn't it, if some offer is too good to be true brother, think twice before you take it.

is there any confusion?

So, I Would Say People Have Become more cautious now and they have seen where this debt story can take you and, in this people, have seen what happened in Sri Lanka You Know That Case. Across the World It made an Impact is that's the Lesson That We Had If You look, I can say after 2014 the today we are trying to be an option and increasingly in Many Cases We Are an Option but in the Decade Before That We Were Not. An option even in our own neighborhood and watch this port being built in by us in Hambantota.

We saw Gwadar port we saw Hambantota came up so it is important to be aware of it.

Important to be Competent It is important to have the record at home to be an option

abroad and today the difference is very Frankly

if in a few years I would be well into my fifth decade

In this but I can feel the world look at us very differently now

Interviewer: Yes, it's true, the people of India also started looking at it very differently.

so that that drives what you said will start first inside our own country not in terms of just infrastructure but also in terms of perspective and narrative I think the people of India will also believe this. It turns out that we are a very solid option and we are a good option for the neighbors nearby, there is a very old and famous Quote by Former President of Mexico

Benito Juárez "tragedy of Mexico is it's near America and very far away from God”. There is a very obvious sentiment that there are small countries which are near giant countries, like India is a giant country. There is a sentiment among the small countries around India that they blame their own problems on the bigger countries if anything was going on inside them, they would have said that this problem is happening because of a big country, just like there is a dirty water nearby, so how long can we live like this? Do we have any limit as to how long we can keep them doing this? Can we allow them to blame or by when will they take a decision, are there red lines or is there a joe and cross, we will not allow them to do so and if they ever cross the line, what action will we take?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Yes, absolutely and see, it is like this.

Firstly, I absolutely agree with what you are saying and I am what we are We have made this policy Neighborhood First What Does Neighborhood First mean?

That if Whatever metrics your neighbors from you in terms of population or economy younger than you so don't expect that you'll make one move and he'll make one

It can't be one to one which means you are 10 times bigger than them so you know you have to make 10 moves for that one move so first of all we need to be generous we need to What they say is that we have a non-recipe principle that it should not be that you do.

Let me know, open my heart and do it, that is a kind of common sense and whatever the small country is.

As you said that sometimes they blame their problems on others. So, We Have to Deal with It Patiently Reasonably Now You Ask Me How Patient I Would to Say!

Very Patient You Ask Me While You Know Redline Look These Are Not Things You Say In

the Public You Know Those Are the Things You Have to Talk to Them and Make Them Reason to Think. It's a Question of Getting Them to Understand that these certain things are not in their interest you know finally what is we say is diplomacy even politics I would say what is it

Have to reason with people made them Convincible

Interviewer: But also like the incident just happened that our troops were evacuated from Maldives and it's more a little Chinese favor.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) See what comes in newspapers and press. Sometimes the reality is something else. It gets politics. Gives it a different color. I Say Look We'll I'm Confident We'll Find better solution.

Interviewer: You know there is a question I have many friends who are in UK Canada

India's relationship with Canada the Hindu diaspora there is now living in fear and is a small minority and they feel that they are not getting much support especially from India.

That where he is a Hindu, he can stand tall because he is quite became an extremist, whereas he is an Islamist, he is Khalistan. Due to which they are living in daily fear in front of them, don't let them stand.

So, in this situation how can we protect our minority because this Phobia is gradually increasing which was less three to four years ago and is now increasing. This is what I have been hearing from them. This is a matter of another country, so we cannot directly interfere in it, but what should we do so that this situation does not happen? Once it becomes neutralized, we will not be able to even interfere because the countries there are indirectly involved in our democracy.

If they are interfering then how can we neutralize this situation without interfering in their democracy?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) The first point you said is that it is another country, so it has its own limitations.

So, we have to keep that in mind the tussle set where our citizens or where the community of Indian origin comes from Naturally, we have relationship and interest so the first issue has to be How do you balance with the second issue then the third issue what is happening among them?

Balance Explained Communities Have to Find Their Balance. Beyond the point you know it can't be everything run out of Delhi and run out of India but where people are very extreme with extreme views and sometimes extremism reaches the level of violence and even advocacy of terrorism. It is very important to take a stand when we take a stand, we of course we take stand for our Country India but the same stand.... there also I give you Example of country like UK For Years You Know in the Name of Freedom of Speech License Was Given to Very Extremist Opinion and Even No People Were Allowed to Gather Outside Our High Commission Even Throw things that come to a high commission and we'd tell them look please distinguish between freedom of Speech and Misuse of Freedom of Speech.

This is not freedom this is misuse of freedom, second if you let all this happen late as Awesome Roles Are Rewarded You wouldn't want all this to happen in front of your high commission.

No, if a small thing happens here, everyone will immediately start jumping,

Keep at it like this you know life will be completely on your Terms Now Some Where I Think Discover a Situation Were Actually Something in Our High Commission and Took Down, the Indian Flag Act You Saw the Nomadic Reaction in This Country Now Yes, They Have One of Their Own Have tried taking corrective when they take immediate there is an effect of its in.

The community feels like it if it gives Seat Extremist Radicals People Urging Violence

against freedom of speech is going on with the given license when your freedom of speech

really accurately assess and say, but other than delay freedom speech cannot Lead to Violation of laws.

We say we are monitoring very carefully what happens in your Country we will judge whether we take action now or not take action both are revenge for us and how We judge our relationship very dependent on how you act in your country so we have dialogues and monitor them. Very Few Too Many Words Even Say This in Public You Know Do Not Confuse Freedom Speech With misuse of freedom of speech and the other thing I said you know we Have seen in recent time even threatening of those who threaten our people sometimes

Just like it happened in London, in Canada also you know there were smoke bombs thrown to our peoples and will not tolerate this we will take strict action.

Interviewer: You know one question comes to my mind about our foreign service.

Foreign services expansion plan. We have spent our entire life in this, so there is a question that how will we expand.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Because of our foreign service right now if you look it is very simple right now. It is very difficult to have expansion because we are in a rectangular type of structure where our Diplomats are sure that he/she will become ambassador. Essence is not there now, it is not there now, it is not happening.

Any organization pyramid is like this. Organization should not give a short promotion on the day you give a short promotion you devalued the performance.

That our intake has increased and I would like the pyramid to keep increasing, the base to increase

Naturally if the base increases, then it will become rectangle. Better let us make this pyramid a fatter pyramid, the base should be bigger and it not come down to.

Whatever you said, I think it is also good for competition that we have that competition internally. People should feel that it is what it is, it is not your right to become ambassador.

So, if you are asking me why should we expand just this past year?

There has been expansion, about 20 expansions have happened we are also opening new embassies. We have opened in the Baltics, we have opened in Africa, some in Latin America

The direction in which we are going, I think, one is our embassies and

Our Foreign Service will definitely open the second time and its intake will increase from what it is till now. Highest Year We were around 20 years ago when I joined.

After that we came less, we became less in 1990, we became 10, 12 in 80s and 90s, it actually

Went down today we brought it up to the 40's but I feel we should go higher than this.

Interviewer: You say that your government has a narrative or a thinking that we are a global leader but US visa crisis. The world is a global workplace, look at it like if there is a person from India, he has the talent to go and work anywhere in the world.

Maybe India will stand for it, but when we go to get US visa, it is for six months to a year.

There is waiting and it is increasing and the waiting is gradually becoming more serious, so how does one who wants to go to US nowadays it became much tougher.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

I am very glad you asked this question let me tell you it is not only for work place even

Take it, you are a businessman or your relative or you are a student, everyone is affected by this. We Are Pushing the American System Very Hard and Not Only the American System Some Others Countries Also Have This Problem Saying Please You find ways of issuing this faster so that's why last year when PM went there

He also told that you know please look at opening more consulates.

The highest demanding cities was in Bangalore, and Ahmedabad. So, I Would See Practical Solution for What You Are Saying Is In those Countries Were We Have very heavy traffic from our side, because you see the traffic is very interesting so many are applying America.

But if can apply to UK also and Australia also, as many of our people go and settle there for work. Whether you keep citizenship or not is a different matter, but also the reverse problem.

Need more consulates there and faster processing time because they would also like to come to India vice-versa.

So, I Would Say There Would Be 9/10 Countries in the World Today You Know Where There are strong cases required for opening more consulates in India also and our consulates to their home country also putting more Counselors for faster Processing.

Sometimes we also underestimate ourselves Today Our Visa Processing is One of the Best in the World Because we have put most countries on E-Visa's online process.

Let's go to your particulars, someone checks from the database, if everything is fine in the database, then he gets it, so if you look. At the actual I mean it's a very strange situation that these developed countries which are far very digitally efficient than us but they delay the whole process.

This is this is unacceptable I'm Hopeful by continuously talking to them.

Much on my agenda and it's something I talk about even discuss it actually at my level

With You Know the British and The Germans and The Australians.

Interviewer: Is It Happening the New US Embassy Consulate Do We Have Any Confirmation It Will open in Bangalore or any cities.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) I don't know the exact date but yes! Bangalore will happen 100% Ahmedabad and both will happen absolutely I think they have the budget and we will Absolutely Speed It Up at our Interest

Interviewer: Okay we were talking about countries and you were telling about 10 countries where there is very heavy traffic, I want to flip the question.

Top 3 countries for export

And ask you that from the perspective of a foreign Minister, which countries that are the top three countries that you can tell in which one under You see a rated opportunity that Indians can start exporting because India has become very famous now, every small business everyone wants to become big by exporting and at this time If they are looking for opportunity, then many big MNCs have tapped the opportunity in big countries, so which ones are there? Which do you think are underrated countries where options can be explored?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) There is an opportunity, maybe people are not looking at it so carefully, there will be many countries where market purchasing from India. Buying Power is Strong Market Potential is Great but We Have to Make Bigger Effort because partly competition and Partly There Are Different Levels of Barriers Logistics One Than Will Be Some Countries Where We Have Not Developed the Market so the starting point is lower than the first category of countries but if you push. There is no resistance, the more we push the more market will be created.

First Category I Would Say Would Be Mostly Western Country We Are Late We Are Late in Good numbers but if you ask me, we will see the increase in growth and we will see it most of late, the commercial market has become a match in terms of purchasing power.

High Recognition of India, Growing Means, France, Germany, Europe, North America etc.

Then they be like Africa I would say even Latin America

Latin America has potential of buying from India they are buying in fact it is quite interesting not only they are buying even we are also buying.

Today Trade with Latin America is About 45 billion Dollars Every Year as You Know It

in many places. In some cases, first time as Indian foreign minister I went to the country but

Indian Business was there.

Business has gone Ahead Even Same Thing in Africa Because If You Will go to Africa there are Indian Business.

There is not a single country where there is no Indian community and their generality

as Indian Community the Position in the Society Even They Know How to Settle There and Make So I Feel the Second Category We Should Be Pushing Very Strong This Newer Market Than Their Places Were Actually the Market Barriers Are Very High You Know China.

China Is the Most Extreme Example.

I Just Came Yesterday Night From Korea and Japan and I Know I've Been Pushing Them Also saying that look you know given how much investment there is we are not seeing enough trade.

we know so and we should look at Market Barriers in This So in The in The Let Us Say Next 10 Year Perspective I Think We Should Really Push the Export because ultimately exports are employment and it is not just employment it is very competitive employment That you are making products at a globally competitive rate that means your efficiency and production is very good and we are very Confident Because Last Three Four Years our Export Performance Has Been Very Good You Know.

Interviewer: Now let's talk about Korea. The government of Korea does one thing specifically for the skin care and beauty market.

How is the Indian ministry promoting exports?

As Korean government asks business to come to them and government will export your product to the world, India Ministry does something like this where she invites Indian businesses and says that you give us good product and we will go and market it for you in the world.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) We will open barriers, we do a lot of trade promotions, we do. Events like trade fairs etc. are part of it. Yes, we invite people but just like in the past years we have been in this one district One Product That We've Tried to Show to People. If you give this message along with the product, it is yours.

It's heritage, its culture, it means there's a story with that product so it can be

Araku Coffee, You Know and It Can Be Tunchoi Silk.

When we were having our G-20 meetings, I thought we were giving the same thing, you know.

You Must Have a Story or I Got an Actually Tice Made From that product.

Tunchoi Banarasi Silk and Give It to Them and Give Them a Story Which Goes with It.

Today I Mean Marketing is everything. Even Governments Also Need to Be Good at Marketing You Know Because we have a Country story in fact, we have a civilization story that tells us a value story and a product activity story.

Interviewer: I'm very hopeful with this government in terms of marketing because you guys are really nailing it the way you have putting India's marketing

Build the narrative of India around So I was in the UN when I was 17 years old went to Vienna and it was 10 years ago, I used to meet friends from other countries, there were ambassadors from other countries and the people who looked at me the way they did. India and people from where I come from used to look at who will be versus when I talk to them today, their respect Level it's not 10X I think it's 50X in terms of their eyes as you. So, It's a Great Job

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Look to Do and to Continue Doing task Because It's Never Ending, Two Things Are Required, One You have to Continuously Motivate Because Once You Motivate as I Said Many Things You Feel That I can't do it, but it's beyond my ability, but you can actually do it,

secondly, It also takes really hard work that you know now people finish production of the g20 we are ok but if you See like a back stage means you see G20 like what was happening in the Backstage of G20 enormous effort you put it in Also I see the achievements of what we do you know I have like a you know like few lines sometimes you need to say something even in your sleep so are my favorite lines...People Say Describe Change in India You Tell a Foreigner That We Build eight airport in a year, We build three metros every two years. We actually Build We Are Creating Two Colleges a Day You Know the 7000 New Colleges Have Opened

So, if you give you them numbers let's wake them up and say, okay I mean I could be trains the Numbers of Highways we Build 28 Km of Highway a Day You Know What's Incredible.

Interviewer: Recently Like Actually While Ago Also and You Keep Saying This That You Know PM Modi should not give him an external ministry?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Apart from PM Modi, no one else is suitable for external ministry, at that level.

Kind of like I would say I thought there was a lot of out of the box thinking and I'm the reason

I understand that after 2014 and 2015 when Modi ji became the Prime Minister, I was the ambassador to the US, so I remember a lot. There was a big visit where these programs took place at Medicine Square Garden. I was there and I became the Foreign Secretary handed over the responsibility of Foreign Secretary for three years and I accompanied all of us in it.

I used to travel and that foreign secretary is a secretary who has a lot of relations with the PM.

Some dealings took place, after that I retired and went to corporate sector. I was at Tata Son's then I felt that If I agree, apart from Modi ji, I don't think anyone has this thinking in our politics. Apart from this I feel that no one else chooses me,

but let me tell you one more thing Apart from them, if anyone had offered me, I don't think I would have accepted this post.

Because see, as someone who has never done politics, I have seen a lot of politics, I have analyzed it. We did it because what diplomats do is that they study politics and other countries. Most of the time you will get some kind of

It's a big jump when you suddenly become a player instead of a commentator or analyst.

And you understand my nervousness at that time that you

Suddenly asking someone that please enter the field, you start playing now, we are here.

And I had faith beyond them that they would guide and support me in a way and take on that role. Because everyone is worried that if there is some new role then if I can't manage it.

What would happen if I could do it? Yes, if I had that feeling too, then I tell people. Only Modi ji would have chosen me and apart from Modi ji, I don't think I could have given my yes at that time.

Interviewer: In a recent podcast you said, that Indian politics often starts from New York and London.

way beyond it starts in India and many at times it happens that the politics of India was started somewhere else long before India. What does it mean? Why you said it like this?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

I said it because I was watching at that time and I think it still continues that

This is a globalized world and in this globalized world there is empty business.

If economics is not globalized, technology is not globalized, politics is also globalized, then the world is not globalized. I would say, as a global elite runs by big newspapers and big news media houses in a way, they decide the thinking of the world and what they think we will say.

The same thing will happen in the world now, despite what they say, if India something happens in a country like this, they protest against it and then what happens is that

For example, suppose it is election time, then they will say that you should vote for this party and not that party, they will say that democracy in India is in danger, they will say that we don't know, instability will come, there will be intolerance.

So and so forth, these are very sophisticated people, they have racked their brains over this.

Like if we they make an index, they will put you down somewhere, they will put you up somewhere, all of this. It’s kind of the only game so I thought I was seeing that

Those who did not get success in politics and whose arguments are accepted here

He had no traction, what do he do, he goes outside the country and he records in the same place. They are the ones who play there and they think that a good record can be bought by a record player. And if we take it to the locality then maybe we can start singing a variety from there. It has an echo chamber, so you must be seeing that in the last years This is a way of taking our politics out and inviting people from outside sir, you also come please comment on the state of my democracy India. This is happening in India, I am not saying that everything is 100% fine in the country, now we are all. Imperfect and democracy by nature as they say it is work in progress. Democracy cannot say that now we are 100% convinced that we have achieved everything. This is about anchoring people from outside, going out and anchoring, that's why I am on this.

Interviewer: correct me if I'm the color of some countries or some people who do not want India's significance to grow too fast and because of this they do politics outside and may be a narrative.

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

We try to create an image because of which we are growing in the way that we are. Attracting funds from the world, a global technology partnership with the world That affect if there is any power from outside, they don't want India to grow okay I understand okay there is competition in the world there is competition that's a Natural You Can Say Which are the countries that don't want Yes No See Ultimately there are about 200 countries in the world, finally when you say world affairs What is Excel? 200 countries Compete Everyone wants to be Ahead of everybody else you'll be a little ahead Don't think everybody else is clapping in the heart of hearts different I can understand people from outside Do these games which we were telling you, but my complaint is that People from India should not be encouraging it and invite negativity this is my problem. Whatever you say, absolutely in the country.

Say I have no issue with you know I mean I rarely know you when I go out and

I do a lot of meeting I tell people you are asking me this question in India and I will give a straight answer but don't take me outside the country and let the politics buzz me It seems it harms .What is the history of this Country History of This Country Were the Own People Some Times I'm Not Talking Now I am talking hundreds of years, it means there was a fight somewhere, you called someone from outside to set up and then he came back.

Interviewer: In one podcast you said that you as a human being are very complacent out of your competition decisions if you have a lot of competition, then in your current role, have you ever taken any decision out of competition in the last five years?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India)

Actually, it is not like today, Monday, I am more competitive I am worried, it's not me, it's Tuesday, what's in your mind?

Reflex So what happens is normally what happens I go out after the diplomacy that you try to make maximum friends, so you try to persuade people you put your hands around the shoulder like this you know get your work done but What happens is because there is competition and sometimes people put pressure on you.

Most of the deals that take place are hard negotiations that take place inside the room.

As you know there are different issues it can be business or economic issues and

It Can Be Technology Issues or Political Issues Now as You Talk About Border with China

There is tension in the border areas of China, I and my counterpart, the Chinese foreigner.

Minister is there, we negotiate, this happens, but what happens is that in between, people

They try to put pressure on you in some public forum and this is what you did the most.

They must have seen this habit of western media because they felt that right now the world

Number one issue in Ukraine and Russia is for the whole world from the perspective of Europe

It should be seen from the perspective of the Western World, their priority should also be our priority, so when you accept this

Don't do it when you say... no sorry excuse me I'm worried about oil price

You know look at my income level look at my public demand then start this

The Pressuring Game You Know the Pushing Game and That's Where Your Competence Sense Comes Up

Because you kind of spoil the game.

Interviewer: You know you just made a really good point in the middle you said that when you have to live among 200 countries, you will have to make a lot of friendships and this narrative of India is also being created now. India a friend of the world

That we are becoming world friends, we are global friends, we are friends of everyone

1Do you think there is a quote in Hindi, I personally am asking that there is a quote.

Do you think that what belongs to everyone belongs to no one?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) I don't believe that rather I will give you a second quote "Sabka Saath Sabka Vishwas"(everyone's support, everyone's trust) See it is such that you believe.

What you are saying is that what belongs to everyone belongs to no one, if what you are doing

It is not sincere in it; it means that you are doing something but you mean it from the heart.

If you are not doing it, then you are doing it to show that you are with everyone, but our efforts Which is in the last decade that we have given you the example I give you during the time of Covid.

Because the effect of Covid is still there, we understand that Covid is gone.

But I think the world is still struggling with Covid, its consequences and its effects.

It is still visible in different countries, now there are many countries which thought that we have no chance. If we don't get the vaccine, and we don't know about Covid. Even if the vaccine doesn't come even if it comes and goes, now they will feel that countries like India

Because firstly we are a developing country and secondly, we ourselves are not able to get our vaccination done at that time. We were doing this and then they also compared us with the developed countries and others like them. Countries like what is now North America, there were some countries whose population. If they purchased the vaccine eight times, if there were 10 crore people then they would have 80 crores.

The vaccine doses, they did not give those doses to any small neighboring country.

But whatever vaccine they got, it was from far away, from India, so I think right now that

A people who sees from their own experiences that when I am in trouble Who came at that time, who supported us, who did something for us and with everyone in it the number of people to be with and the second example I'll give you is the G20 that was going on

That I have been living for 20 years now I think it was 18 17 or 17 1820 and I myself

I have been on this for 10 years as Foreign Secretary and Foreign Minister.

Once I was attending G-20 summit.

If you are a developing country, you have your own problems.

How do we present this to the world, we were the first people to do this, now Africans

Union, I have been watching for years that every year this topic used to come up in every G20.

At the end of the meeting, people said yes, we want to make African Union a membership.

If nothing happened then he would say ok, no problem, we will make it next time, this time Modi. Yes, I will not take the lead, I will write to people as you know, we should do as you know.

I seek your kink every buddy. Everyone had to agree, so see people see in diplomacy.

I would also say in politics Since TV is the time, even in the public country, if you are in our politics too See, I take public recognition, I am sincere, not whose promises, how much you have to pay.

One must trust and the same thing happens outside, so what I would have told the PM

I am sure that whatever we are saying today is Modi's guarantee, this is Modi's guarantee for the last 10 years. The world will believe that if you go to Africa, Africa thinks that it is actually true. Who was the President of the African Union, not just but the last one, he said that your guaranteed that we will do it and you have led up to it this is Modi's guarantee which is it is a world global Message It's Not Just an Indian Message.

Interviewer: We are trying to figure out the Indian Dream and it started from the fact that I personally feel that. Our entire audience also feels that earlier there was talk of a dream, American dream, it means that you are from any country.

Be it any caste, any color, any poverty background or financial background, everyone is from anywhere. If you come to America, you can go from zero to millionaire in one generation.

It's the American Dream. I think those Gun and roses days are the reality of the Indian Dream.

Now in India, there are so many opportunities from anywhere that you can come here in the same generation from any background. So, your life can change.

So, the question is what is the Indian Dream according to you?

S. Jaishankar: - (External Affairs Minister of India) Now just tired because I'm looking at some economic Projections Today, We're About to Reach a Half Trillion Dollars

In by 2047 the expectation is that we would be a 30 trillion Dollar and According to The Goldman Sachs. By 2075 we will be 52.5% we will be the second largest economy in the World Let Us Take Amrit Kaal 2075 Forget about 2077, in 2047, per capita income in India would be a$1000 Really Now From Today to Your Per Capita Income Is less than $3000 2600 something just think and it's only I'm giving this just as way of imagining because reality we can't You know in this way it is good to use the word dream because so many things are going to change or I'll Come You Know the Whole Idea of Quality of Life Will Change Necessity of Life Will Change So I Would Say You Know What is the Dream for You Naturally because my whole life has been spent on phone policy I will look at It's From What's Ours internationally

Position to me is a big dream that would be the big dream you know how do we make a

Passport More Powerful Not Only That You Know I’ll Tell You Very Interesting Thing Passport Powerful Because Some Times People Keep Using, I Told You the Index You Know Indexes Tables Are Game Ask Yourself the One You Say to Me in a Crisis Passport is more powerful I don't only look at it Where to get visa Where not to get

To Me Passport Is Powerful Nut Government Has the Commitment to Take You Out from Waiver It And believe me if you use an index you will go up many more positions in the passport Index It Would Be What Is Your Influence How Are You Regarded What is the Power of Your ideas because you will be a great

Power One Your Idea Counts Today It's Not Only the American Dream It Was What the

the Americans Actually Intellectually Dominate

So, the Power of Your Ideas is the Manner in Which People Are

Regarding and I think a lot of course naturally depends on how things go

Interview Podcast Channel Courtesy:- https://www.youtube.com/@rajshamani

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