#TLOVM meta

[aspiringsophrosyne]

I'm not even going to try to pretend that the Thordak - Raishan Dracolich thing wasn't rad as fuck. Because it was. It was rad as fuck. But I can't help but feel it undercuts a bit of what made Raishan cool in the stream.

She is the only female dragon in the Chroma Conclave. She is the smallest member, physically the weakest, and diseased besides. But she turned out to be easily the most dangerous and deadly dragon of the bunch, just through her smarts and her magic.

(Spoilers for Campaign One under the cut.)

While everyone was still spent from Thordak's defeat, she hit Vex, Vax, and Keyleth with a spell that literally called down meteors that did 101 points of damage, even after all three made the save. The group had to wait until the next session to find out if Vex was still even alive. In her last solo battle, she used invisibility to deadly effect. Cutting her off from her spells was the only thing that gave them a chance.

And what makes Raishan dangerous in TLOVM is her...stealing the body of a much bigger and physically stronger male counterpart. Okay.

This doesn't eradicate Raishan's original cool factor. She is smart enough, knowledgeable enough, and deceptive enough to pull off the body swap, after all. But in the stream, she was such a dangerous, unstoppable foe all on her own that I can't help but see her TLOVM incarnation as a downgrade.

[blorbologist]

ok im going to get off my usual perc’ahlia soapbox to outstretch my hand to the vaxleth mains (hi babes we really in it now) and say holy shit

these new parallels between Vax and Keyleth

(or if not new so very strengthened)

LIKE. LISTEN.

She did not choose this path, she did not, she embarked on the same journey her mother did. For her family, for her tribe, out of love, out of duty. Like her mother before her. Made to pass through fire. 

One day a mantle will rest on her shoulders and though she can take it off it writes its weight into her skin. She sees it in the mirror even when it’s not there. She did not choose this power or this responsibility and she rises, she rises to the challenge.

He did not care what he chose, only that he chose for his sister to live. Whatever the fuck he chose, it wasn’t this, he had no idea what he signed up for but he will not balk, he will not falter, he can’t because his sister breathes. For his family, his family of one, out of love, out of duty. They have a deal. Do not go far from me. 

Today, he can’t take it off. It clings like a lover’s touch (such loneliness in her eyes), he can’t forget it even for a second, can’t rid himself of what the mantle he has taken up. This role is his now and he will not forget it

Voice of the Tempest, Champion of Ravens

Yall got some good fuckin food is all I’m sayin

[burr-ell]

What do you mean by 'trying to mighty nein-ify vm instead of having actual character moments'? Not intending to be hostile or aggressive, I just saw those tags and got curious.

That's okay! Mighty Nein-ification is a bit of a misnomer (especially because it's unnecessarily hostile to the Nein). The problem isn't so much making Vox Machina like the Mighty Nein (all indications are that VM was just as rough around the edges as the Nein were when they were starting out), it's that I think they retreated to old shorthands they were familiar with that work well with the Nein and don't work with VM in the time they had.

So when we first meet Vox Machina in the stream, they're already established and respected adventurers at level 9 sent on a quest by a member of the Council of Tal'dorei. They've already killed Brimscythe and the Dread Emperor and saved the Sovereign and his family; while we see their scrappier beginnings in the Origins comics, it's purely backstory in the campaign. With the Nein it's the opposite, where we actually follow them through their low-level adventures as they get to know each other, watching them argue and mistrust each other and slowly build up both their friendships and their clout within the political factions of Wildemount. We watch them go from a gang of slapdicks who no one likes or respects and are constantly fighting to a strong and cohesive team of movers and shakers.

Here's the problem: the cast is now producing an animated adaptation of Vox Machina's campaign, which is almost universally agreed to really pick up around episode 24, the beginning of the Briarwood arc. Between the slower-paced first 20 episodes and the red dragonborn in the room, the Briarwood arc makes the most sense as the starter story. We can't just jump right into that without taking some time to establish VM as a party, right? That's what the opening two-parter of season 1 is for: they need to establish who Vox Machina are as individuals and a party so we have a baseline understanding of them before following them through an iconic storyline. There are different ways they could do this!

And the way they chose to do it was "gang of slapdicks who no one likes or respects and are constantly fighting".

This would have been fine if they weren't starting with the Briarwood arc and leading into the Conclave arcs, which both require VM to have some rapport with each other and the Tal'Dorei Council to work. Instead VM are still on thin ice with the council and honestly don't give anyone a reason not to think of them that way even before everything goes wrong at the feast. (Like, I don't think Scanlan's antics in 1x03 are funny; I think they make him look like a dumbass and they make VM look like dumbasses by association.) Allura and Kima barely tolerate them and Allura is reluctant to speak in their defense when the Sovereign puts them under arrest. I can understand that they thought this kind of conflict would be more interesting, but this is the lead-in to the Briarwood arc. There's PLENTY of conflict here to be interesting! Why not try to build up Vox Machina as a competent party with friendly allies who struggle with but still overcome a difficult challenge, maybe straight-up open on them killing Brimscythe and then lead into a truncated Kraghammer arc?

Because this doesn't just make for a lackluster opening two-parter. Emon being so hostile to the party means they have very little investment in or connection to the city, and then for the Briarwood arc they spend the rest of their time in Whitestone. As a result, when the Conclave attacks, it lacks emotional weight. Keyleth has a line in season 2 about their home being destroyed that falls flat because Emon wasn't their home; they were kicked out of every tavern and multiple people pointed out how bad their reputation was. The lack of friendship with Kima and Allura makes their meeting in Season 2 Episode 5 very jarring, because they greet each other like old friends when they're not. (I think Seasons 2 and 3 did a good job developing Allura and Kima's friendship with VM, but this is work that should have had its foundation laid sooner.) When Keyleth asks the question of "why are we even together", it's never really answered in the emotional sense in which it's asked. Why are they together? Because at the eleventh hour they finally started acting competent, I guess. Don't get too attached to the idea of that theme, because it's not gonna come up again all season.

You see what I'm saying here? They didn't go for what would most efficiently tell the story in a way that made sense; they went for tropes—archetypal stories of scrappy underdogs pulling together for a common goal. And while it seems like a quick fix that solves the problem of distilling the first twelve levels of Vox Machina's campaign into a 12-episode season, in the long term it undercuts what the show intends to do later because the groundwork they laid was too focused on using familiar adventure story imagery to try to push audience reaction buttons. That's a problem that has hung over this show for three seasons now, and I think the metapigeons have come home to roost.

[shorthaltsjester]

god i have so much i could say about tlovm s2 so far but all my brain is providing is rot about scanlan and vex and oh boy i am. so very intrigued by the space that the show is giving their dynamic because it’s certainly one that I think is essential to their character arcs in campaign one but i also know that isn’t an opinion that is always held by campaign one enjoyers. but god between their hostile but caring dynamic in s1 and the foiling that is happening between the twins and scanlan and his lack of someone who evidently cares for him (post dragon splitting up, when the twins reunite scanlan has a witty comment about how he’s also glad he’s alive and then in ep3 after vax stops vex from trekking across the lake to find the tomb because it might not be safe, no one stops scanlan from doing the same when he volunteers seconds later) i am so, So happy that my favourite mask wearing, comedy wielding, self hating members of vox machina are being presented as the power duo that they are.

and just god. their relationship in the campaign was so small and so big at the same time and i love that it seems to be the same in the show even though it Easily and Understandably could’ve been something they cut because of the massive editing they have to do. just . god. they are so important to me and what was his mothers name and they went into the feywild to deal with her daddy issues and he helped her figure out a magic broom and she wore the stupid hat he had made for her and he minor imaged her skin green and he was a triceratops down the aisle and she isn’t perfect but she’s the most perfect of all of them and in his absence she said that their leader wasn’t with them and he turned her into a dragon and she flew him around a library and he made a wish for her and she told grog to stop carrying him like a football and he relentlessly bullied her bear and she wrote him a limerick to make fun of him almost sleeping with his daughter and he gave her 30 gold for a book and she saw a stranger with a shorter shadow and a familiar moniker and they’re best friends and they’re enemies and they’re family and they mean the world to me

[setsailforthestars]

Vex and Vax get it so right.

Being a twin, and an identical one at that, is having a part of your soul detached and walking around in a different body. “Do not go far from me” is not a request but a demand, because you cannot bear it.

It’s a disorienting feeling looking at another person and seeing a mirror of yourself, but you blink and they’re just a few steps sideways of who you are. They’ve always been there, as constant as your own reflection, and nearly as accurate. They’ve always been who you wish you were.

When you grow up joined at the hip against the world, sometimes with no one else but them, it feels like every fight, every disagreement pushing you apart is the most devastating hurt you can imagine. It feels unfixable, until you cannot bear to be apart any longer and you fall back together like you were meant to be.

There is an incandescent rage flickering in your heart on their behalf at all times, even at the mere thought of an injustice against them. And when they’re hurt, or worse, of course you’re going to do everything you can to make it right. To fix them.

There is also sorrow. The knowledge that someday, somehow, inevitably, you will be the only one left. And you will be alone, and only half a person because you could not bear to make yourself whole when that would mean separating yourself from them.

And maybe one of you is the strong one, maybe one of you needs the other more, maybe you both think that about yourselves.

Maybe you would sacrifice yourself over and over so the other may live — selflessly, but also secretly selfish — so you don’t have to be the one left behind at the end of it. You don’t have to be the one who is alone.

[the-velvet-worm]

The fact that Syldor called Vex a mistake is just ⎯ wow was that a powerful moment because it confirms every single doubt, every single fear that she’s ever had in her life. That just by being born, she’s made everyone else’s life worse for it, that her mere existence is an inconvenience. She doesn’t even have to courage to stand up for herself yet, all she can do is stand there and take the unwarranted abuse from a man she so desperately wants the approval of.

But Vax, sweet, loving Vax will take absolutely none of it. He may at times feel like a fuckup and feel like a failure and question what his purpose in life is but he refuses to let anyone make his sister feel small ⎯ he’ll even call out Vex herself if she ever tries to put herself down. His unwavering, unconditional belief in her, his absolute reverence of her, is exactly what she needs to build herself back up, whether she realizes it or not; even if he thinks she doesn’t need him or she doesn’t adequately express it, she does need him, she needs his reassurance, she needs his guidance, she needs his opinion on all matters. Even if it doesn’t entirely make the insecurity go away, even if she still feels the sting of her father’s rejection, the lingering ache of her mother’s murder, she has the comfort, love, and devotion of her brother, her best friend, her biggest fan.

And something that Vax will never be able to understand, is how anyone as wonderful as his sister could ever feel as low as she does sometimes, how anyone could ever think she was a mistake. The one he shares everything with, the one he always protects, if not from others than from her own self-doubt and shame, the person he depends on and trusts most in the world; in no way is she a mistake. He’s not so sure about himself sometimes, but his sister? No way, she’s perfect in his eyes, and always will be.

[l-herz]

I'm loving the new wave of Vex appreciation that's happening because of TLOVM2. My girl deserves it and honestly she's so underrated. I was so happy Keyleth got her flowers for S1 given all the unfair hate towards her and Marisha in the campaign, and I love seeing Vex and Laura similarly embraced and loved by the fandom <3

[kymal]

on a rewatch it occurs to me that scanlan being the one to kill umbrasyl and fight his instinct to run away and in doing so, getting mythcarver back, is meant to sort of be a stand in for the city of brass when he awakens mythcarver fully

which makes sense bc again in the campaign scanlan earning his vestige wasn’t a full scale character arc like it was for the other members of the party. they went to the city of brass to get the plate of the dawn martyr for pike so i think animated series wise, they’ll try to focus those events fully on pike and thus scanlan’s character beat of awakening mythcarver by standing his ground and finishing the fight has to be placed elsewhere. it makes perfect sense then to slot it in here with the umbrasyl fight.

NOW I’M GOING TO TALK MAJOR SPOILERS FOR CAMPAIGN ONE SO LOOK AWAY IF YOU WANT TO EVENTUALLY BE TRAUMATIZED BY THE GNOME IN THE PUREST WAY POSSIBLE

this does still sort of leave me questioning if this wasn’t also meant to be a bard’s lament stand in if perhaps they don’t get the full 5 seasons i think sam mentioned wanting for the show. tonally, i think this works in favor to scanlan’s character provided we don’t get that big moment that is bard’s lament.

that said though, since i’ve studied that particular moment like one would a shakespeare play! still doing a bard’s lament beat after this would hit so good! play scanlan’s death during the raishan fight as everyone thinking he’s playing another joke on them at first. in the campaign it was played for laughs too! make the dawning horror on the party’s faces palpable as they realize that it’s not a joke this time! we still get our ‘fix him!’ we still get the rush the resurrect him bringing kaylie into the mix.

the sighs of relief when scanlan is still unconscious but breathing again! and it’s ok! scanlan’s ok! they can enjoy their victory! and hey now they can laugh and joke! it’s what scanlan would’ve wanted! and they’ve already alluded to how pike and percy did up his unconscious body with the whole kaylie thing so now just imagine how hard it’s gonna hit when he wakes up like that after dying and failing to be the hero he wanted to be for kaylie, huh? here he is right back in the position he started from.

i am thinking many thoughts. i am rotating the gnome in my mind. i am slipping the tlovm writers room $20.

[wackachewbacca]

I don’t know if this is something that’s gonna get mentioned a lot because it only happened in one scene between Thordak and Umbrasyl and that wasn’t the main focus at the time for the audience.

Thordak mentioned something really interesting in the grand scheme of the overarching story. ASCENSION. The dragons are not just trying to acquire vast hordes of riches; they’re trying to ascend to the divine realms. That’s more worrying than just the obvious reason.

The show has been laying the groundwork for a lot of things going to happen soon. Scanlan’s problems with love and intimacy compounded by the fact he feels like Vox Machina doesn’t appreciate him is a great example. Even Vax’s relationship with the Raven Queen and walking down a different path setting up the fate that will come to him. This is all nearly end-game stuff we’re dealing with. So they mention ascension once and my blood goes cold.

Because that is the end-game of it all and it’s staring us right in the face. We’re not halfway through the Conclave arc and now they’re explicitly throwing around becoming gods. They aren’t hiding it from us anymore. And maybe it should have been more obvious with how we’ve been absolutely inundated with lore of the gods and the Calamity and the Raven Queen, the most famous example of one of few mortals who truly ascended to godhood a thousand years ago

Am I scared of the Chroma ascending and terrorizing all the realms? No, but now that door is open and a lot of bad things are gonna start coming through

[phenixy-dunnhart]

OMFG ! I was rewatching TLOVM season 1 and I found something.

So this is in 1x07 after Percy killed Stonefell, the party are asking for explanations about the Pepperbox and everything and Percy talk to them about the list and Scanlan says this:

“ Hold up that’s five names. Who’s the sixth barrel for ?”

Percy doesn’t answer and this is the shot we get after that:

The shadow ! Aaaaaah !!!

We know watching the entire season that Cassandra’s name is on the sixth but hidden. However you can’t convince me that the sixth barrel wasn’t destined for Percy’s own soul. At least up until Cassandra betrays them.

For me it never really made sense for Cassandra to be the sixth name because she was mind-controlled, she wasn’t directly part of the De Rolo’s deaths and so had no reason to be on Percy’s list.

So two theories:

1) Cassandra’s name was always on the Pepperbox but hidden because Percy didn’t knew of her “involvement”. (not a fan of this one)

2) Cassandra’s name replaced the empty spot where Percy’s name should have been. Because after his vengeance completed, his soul would have been fully corrupted and ripe for the reaping for Orthax, his soul would have been forfeit. Besides I’m not sure how much will to live Percy would have left if his sister never made it out alive.

Anyways I’m still at the beginning of the critacal role 1st campaign so I didn’t have the full story here but this little nod/easter egg/innuendo from the animators made my day.

[bloodyshadow1]

I'm just wondering how critters who have watched campaign 1 think the are going to adapt the rest of the series? With the episode titles being out it seems like they're going to finish this season up with the death of umbrasyl.

So what do people think they're going to do with the rest of the series? Because there's ways to go about it, we know they have a 3rd season, that's already been confirmed, I can't imagine them not getting a 4th.  But do u think they're going in thinking that?  Are the going to kill off yhe other 3 dragons off in 1 season or do u think next season they're going to end on vorugal's death and save thordak and raishan for season 4 assuming they get one.

Personally I think they should assume the have a 4th season and have vorugal slain at the end of season 3.  In this season it looks like the side stories they're covering are fall of emon, sunken tomb, obviously, but also the second sphinx, the Fey wild, craven edge and westrun before finishing up with umbrasyl.  According to the timeliness they should have 4 vestiges at the end of this season, which would leave 4 for the next.

They could do the same thing with the 3rd season, since they have marquet, and glintshore, and the fire plane, and depending on how much they want to do with draconia. And end with killing vorugal.

The only issue I can see is doing the same thing twice in the season could get stale and obious as a plot, 1 dragon person seadon. While it's only 24 more episodes, it's another 2 years to deal with thordak and raishan that's been built up since the climax of the 1st season. It also doesn't leave a lot of canon story for the 4th season since it's an animated series, not an anime, it feels awkward to have more that 1 episode devoted to a fight in western animation.  Thodak fake out shouldn't happen before ep 8 to keep the illusion of him being the big bad which could leave 4 eps to fight raishan or 3 with the finale being a breather episode to end the series if the don't get a 5th season.

Of course the could assuming they go in with the mindset they won't get 4 seasons for the chroma conclave they could wrap it up in 3.  Have they do their normal side quest stuff at the beginning. Have vorugal be a mid-season boss. Have thodak be the enemy for say ep 7-10 and then have raishan be the arcs real big bad in the remaining eps.  It could be done, but I think it risks making the 3 remaining members look less important compared to umbrasyl by cramming the 3 of them into a single season.

I don't know, I'm sure whatever happens will be fine, especially for critters who watched the stream, but I thought going in they would maybe deal with umbrasyl and vorugal to make it 2 dragons this season 2the next.

Just curious what people think, and wanted to get this in text rather than bouncing around ny head

[aspiringsophrosyne]

Let's talk about Stream Ripley and TLOVM Ripley.

(Spoilers for Critical Role Campaign 1 and The Legend of Vox Machina Season 3 under the cut.)

What’s The Difference?

Stream Ripley has no extensive backstory or Freudian excuse. Instead, the woman’s actions and words paint the picture of a classic mad scientist. Her home empire did not support her ambitions, so she got pissy and aligned with fugitives from said empire to further her goals.

She’s an admitted supremacist; during her fight with Vox Machina, she tells Percy that they (humans) stand above the other races on their ingenuity. Percy does not grant this the dignity of a response.

As I mentioned here, TLOVM left out a detail from Ripley’s story: how she designed a black powder weapon when Percy invented them. In the show, it’s unclear, but in the stream, it’s explicit she copied his work.

Ripley and Percy

Since she couldn’t have devised it herself, stealing Percy’s idea ties him to her destruction. She unleashes the black powder weapons wherever possible, not just for her petty revenge and aspirations but because Orthax tells her it will drive Percy mad. And she's all about that.

In contrast, Percy doesn’t spread his invention beyond Whitestone but keeps a squad of riflemen to defend it. He understands having and using black powder weapons will lead to their propagation, but this never stops him. Percy knows the potential harm his creation could cause but stops right before he would take the steps to truly prevent it.

Stream Ripley is far more depraved than Percy, yet still reminiscent of him. That's what makes her effective. Two young people who became consumed with indiscriminate, destructive revenge after the death of their families? Sharing similarities? Not shocking. But Percy sharing similarities and a connection through their designs with a woman whose immense ego, pettiness, murderousness, carelessness, spite, callousness, and supremacism fuel her proliferation of such a dangerous stolen idea?

That is far juicier.

Ripley raises the question of how far Percy might fall. Is it possible for him to turn into her? Or something even worse? She stole his invention; he has far more destructive potential than she does.

How responsible is he for his ideas falling into her hand? How irresponsible was he for creating and using it? Someone was going to replicate his gun at some point, and he knew it.

According to Taliesin, for Percy, it was inevitable. The question was never if but when.

Consistency

This is the narrative advantage of making an antagonistic foil simple and wicked. But there’s a practical advantage as well. If Ripley’s just fantasy Elon Musk, she doesn’t need extra exposition. She’s characterized; we’re done. There are no questions about her backstory or her motivations that need answering.

But TLOVM’s flashback to her past raises questions.

For stream watchers, did Delilah help raze Ripley’s home with the other Assembly members? If so, did Ripley know? Did Ripley know and not care? Was Ripley even aware Delilah was ex-Assembly? Was Delilah even a member of the Assembly in TLOVM’s canon?

For show-only watchers, how exactly did a woman who supposedly wants to make it easier for the common folk to fight back against wizards wind up torturing children in the employ of a wizard? While there are potential reasons and explanations, none are provided.

That flashback introduced wrinkles to the story with those unanswered questions. Keeping this villain simple would have kept her more consistent.

It's possible to make a complex, complicated villain with contradictory motivations...but Ripley didn't have the right set-up for that, and S3 didn't have the time to put all of her new, disparate pieces together into a cohesive whole.

And in her case, why would you want to? It robs her of her efficacy and wastes time the show doesn't have.

And yeah, keeping this villain simple wouldn't have just tightened up the plot and her character, it would've saved precious time.

Time

Because putting the wrinkles aside, what do we get from this flashback? What do we get from dragging Ripley's defeat out? Admittedly, the fight on the boat was well-made, and we get a sneak peek of the Cerberus Assembly, but neither was worth giving up the group kill Ripley earned in the stream. Nor was it worth the time that could’ve been saved ending her life an episode earlier.

Keeping Ripley simple does not just make her a better villain who serves Percy’s characterization by being his dark reflection. It doesn’t just make it easier to keep her story consistent. It saves time. And for an adaptation of Vox Machina’s story, time is paramount. There are seven protagonists and a ton of plot to get through; TLOVM can't afford to waste a second.

[blorbologist]

Confession time:

In the campaign, I loathe Mythcarver.

Vox Machina are given the Vestige as a sidenote - 'here are the locations of a ton of cool ancient weapons, and also this sword I can just give you guys'. While every other Vestige involves a quest for it, or at least some planning, often with some degree of expectation of who will get it (Fenthras, the Titanstone Knuckles, Whisper, the Plate of the Dawnmartyr, the Spire of Conflux - they all really fit one party member well. Cabal's Ruin is more up in the air until we find out who has it, and the Ward has already been given to Vax by this point). Many of them are tied to character moments for the party members in question - 'take me instead you raven bitch', the killbox, 'my heart is someone else's', 'i forgive you, but I cannot let you leave'.

Scanlan doesn't get a noble quest with his friends to power him up. Scanlan does's even do anything of particular note in Kamaljiori's canon trial. He's just... given this Vestige as loot, and because it's made with bards in mind and he's the bard so he should get it.

Except Mythcarver doesn't suit *Scanlan's* style of bard, at all, and I can count the number of times he uses it on one hand, one of which required heavy prompting by Matt because Sam was so used to ignoring the thing. It's a glorified stat stick that buffs some abilities but never sees use because Scanlan is so heavily focused on support spells. It can't match the damage output or utility of his spells, so it just sits on his belt looking pretty. He gets one cool moment with it, against a minor boss, and that's it.

(Notably, he pulls it out and tries poking for a Blinked enemy during a critical fight which I'm not naming due to spoilers, and he just... still doesn't get to do anything with it. That one round could have prevented a death - sinking a turn into trying to use that sword actively hurt the party. It sucks.)

Credit where credit is due: I really appreciate the vision Matt had for the weapon and the intent behind it! On the other hand, it just... further fed into Scanlan feeling like he was an afterthought to the party. They didn't go on a quest for him. They didn't even think of getting him a Vestige - he's just handed one, in a fairly forgettable sidebar, and then hardly ever uses it again. It sucks. I hate that stupid sword.

So when I tell you I was grinning so, so massively during episide 6 of season 2 -

Mythcarver isn't given to Scanlan by default - it's given to him, specifically, by a friend. Kamaljiori is the first person to see through his exterior, his many masks, who bonds with him over love and longing and sincerity. It's not an offhand 'oh while you're here take this' it's for him. He gets a cool moment with it!! It reveals the locations of the other Vestiges!

Here, now, Mythcarver represents what Scanlan wants to be: a hero, a valued friend, someone who matters and has an impact on the world. Someone loved.

(And also noteworthy that this happened not long after Pike was dismissive of him, too. Whistles.)

And then Umbrasyl swoops in to take it, singling Scanlan out for what he carries - and Kami fights for him. Kamaljiori protects him, over and over and over, not for Mythcarver but because it’s Scanlan, it's his friend. He's going toe to toe with an ancient black dragon for Scanlan. And dies for it.

Not only does Umbrasyl kill Kamaljiori but he steals this Vestige. This gift for Scanlan alone, this first fucking testament to having mattered to someone, to being valued and cared for. Mythcarver isn't just a reward, it actively pushes the plot and Scanlan's character development forward, gives Scanlan what he's been quietly looking for in the background, and then viciously takes it away.

(This also gives Scanlan a bigger motivation to be part of that one stupid plan with Vax that's in the trailer: Umbrasyl killed his friend and stole something representing everything Scanlan wants. And he wants it badly and he wants it back, you flying fuck.)

I can't wait to see what's in store. This was, I think, my favorite change to TLOVM so far after 'darling take off the mask' getting a bigger Moment. I can't believe they gave weight and meaning to that stupid sword and I'm here for it.

[burr-ell]

One thing I've seen more than one person comment on is the idea that Pike's arc this season is somehow tied into Campaign 3's current arc and Trist's family in Downfall. I'm not saying it's completely out of the question, but I think it's worth mentioning that the production process for one season of this show takes literal years. According to Travis from the roundtable discussion for episodes 1-6, episode 4 was written shortly after Exandria Unlimited: Calamity, so probably around July or August of 2022.

Just to give us some perspective, Calamity interrupted Bell's Hells in the middle of the Bassuras arc and Imogen and Laudna's gnarlrock fight. It's possible the Hells hadn't even looked through the telescope for the first time yet by the time these episodes were written. Travis, Liam, Sam, and Marisha—who all wrote for this season—could not have known where Campaign 3 was going at the time and Downfall hadn't even been conceived yet. And this is when the script was written; the overall plot itself was likely conceived well beforehand (my guess is that the demon was originally intended to be someone else, either Ipkesh or an original character, and the outline was rewritten to accommodate Zerxus instead). Past a certain point, that script had to be completely locked in so they could record the dialogue and then go through the repeatedly iterative processes of layouts, storyboarding, and animatics.

I understand the instinct and there's always the possibility I'm wrong, but it is highly unlikely that Pike's arc having similarities to the current plot of Campaign 3 is much more than a coincidence.

[shorthaltsjester]

i am continuing my vex and scanlan subtle essential dynamic for one another in tlovm season 2 train but two tiny moments that really make me !!!! about them is that as the show starts to reveal more of scanlan’s complexity, especially around being left without anyone to care for him or his hesitance to risk his life when he could more safely run away, vex is the one with a) extremely similar fears, i’d only argue that she’s slightly further ahead (not by much to be clear) in dealing with them and b) she’s the one with the most direct rebuttals to his No One Cares About Me brain troubles

because when scanlan says Actually fuck these dragons were just losers who did this accidentally it Is whitestone that proves him wrong and the kids around the corner, but vex is the one that looks at him (a familiar face, it wasn’t long ago that she considered the ghosts haunting her friend and the house arrest they were handed and considered running with her brother only to stay because something in that house mattered - the people, particularly one gnome in the middle of making a mustard sandwich) and asks him to fight even if they might lose, that there’s something worth doing even if they lose that fight.

and then when they’re looting gilmore’s and everything scanlan reaches for is taken by someone else until he gets to the broom (and god. gods. that broom won’t be his either and we all know that) he gets left behind as gilmore rushes to teleport them all to the keep - but it’s vex who stops and says where’s scanlan.

and they’re small moments, easy ones to play off as just making sure there’s a spread of dialogue throughout the ensemble, but also they’re quintessential moments to the scanlan and vex incredibly fraught and harsh but also extremely caring and kind dynamic. because one of the greatest tricks vex has to protect herself is acting like she doesn’t care for anyone and the greatest trick scanlan has for protecting himself is acting like it doesn’t matter that no one cares for him and that makes both of them uniquely dangerous to one another’s issues with thinking their presence in the lives of those around them is a burden and an unwanted one at that. and just. all these little moments are so organic to who the characters are and i’m glad that the things we saw with their dynamic in season one are still there (especially vex’s being a shithead to scanlan while also clearly caring about him in her actions - iirc laura pointed this out in the season one watch alongside during the wraith fight where vex catches scanlan when he’s thrown against a wall)

[abitcaughtinthemiddle]

Glintshore is going to mean something different in The Legend of Vox Machina than it did in the original campaign

At this point in campaign 1, Vex and Percy has not yet hooked up and had been dancing around their feelings for each other. Laura and Taliesin have both said that Vex and Percy would never have admitted their feelings for each other hadn’t Percy died and Vex made her plea to him (true love’s Nat 20).

In fact, Taliesin has said that he was ready to let Percy die permanently and move on with his backup character (fun fact: it was actually Mollymauk from Campaign 2 that was his backup C1 character) but Laura’s choice and the Nat 20 roll was too much to simply ignore (and thank god for that because Perc’ahlia is my prized ship and my Roman Empire).

The timeline of things being very different in TLOVM means that we’ve gotten a sort of sped up development of not only the relationship between Percy and Vex but the relationship Percy has with himself. As we’ve been seeing in the show, Percy seems much lighter, much less burdened by the weight of Orthax and revenge. In episode 6, we see him have a touching moment of with Vex about the future, talking about his hopes for Whitestone.

In the campaign, he was still carrying around this weight of guilt and shame in a way that wasn’t dealt with like it was in the show (with his self sacrifice in Ank’Harel, taking responsibility for inventing guns- bringing widespread consequences across all of Exandria). This never happened in the live stream. Glintshore ended up acting like this penance: Percy dying at the hands of the very weapon he created.

Since we’ve seen a more “carefree” happier Percy in the show, and he’s already had his moment of self flagellation, Glintshore is going to mean something else in the show.

Of course, we all know this is going to be a wake up call for Vex to finally admit her love for him and stop pretending she can just fool around with him -heart be damned. I think it’s going to mean a lot for Vax and Keyleth too.

Since they’ve set up plot line that Vax is the one concerned about Keyleth’s long life span, I feel like Percy’s death is going to wake Keyleth up tot he fact that everyone she knows and loves will die before her, and she’ll see a little bit more where Vax is coming from- and I think Vax is going to start to realize that Keyleth can handle herself around loss and that he’s being an absolute fool by pushing her away.

Like Marisha’s said in interviews, these upcoming episodes are going to deal with facing fears- and I think Percy’s death and finding a way to resurrect him is going to touch on a lot more of Vox Machina’s fears than just Percy and Vex. I can’t wait to see how it plays out.