#THROWS MY WOF BOOKS AT YOU

[kito-kat]

HIYA BESTIE!!!! it's 6 in the morning and I'm meant to be making my cynessa mask but idk so,

Trick or treat1!!!

cynessa... murder .. murder dones !!??!?!?!?!? ME WHEN MRUDER DRONES:3

I mean... pick a candy or something idk........

[wings-of-fire-confessions]

okay

this has been bothering me more the think about it

and before i start rambling i want to specify that i havent read the books in a hot minute so take everything i say with a huge grain of salt

So, Foeslayer, right?

Highly disliked by IceWings, surrounded by myths and rumors, married to Arctic, etc etc

Mother of Darkstalker and Whiteout.

She is a mother. Foeslayer is a mother.

If I recall correctly, Darkstalker clearly favored her over Arctic since Arctic sucked as a father and had favoritism amongst his two children (in other words, his favorite was Whiteout).

Now, I don't recall once Foeslayer really showing any sort of major "i cant stand my son" sort of thoughts, at least before the entire being-captured-by-Diamond thing.

Fast forward 2000+ years, and Darkstalker is released, he tries to take over Pyrrhia, yada yada. Foeslayer is revealed to be alive as well.

Now, it comes to the point where Darkstalker is about to eat the strawberry.

Foeslayer is very much aware of all the trouble he has caused and insists that he eats the strawberry so he can turn into a different dragonet entirely.

She is telling her son, her flesh and blood, to turn into a different dragon.

She wanted to replace her son.

Her child.

And for what? So the plot can be finished?

Yeah, sure, both of them can start over now and Darkstalker is no longer plaguing the land, but she essentially killed her son in order to replace him with a different person entirely.

What kind of a mother does that?

Ik a lot of the parent characters in WoF are terrible, but Foeslayer (or now Hope) was sort of supposed to be the better parent?? She's really not much better than Arctic with that in mind.

Mind you, this was also forced upon Darkstalker. He never wanted this. He didn't choose to change.

I guess this just adds to the entire ending of Arc 2 being... not great.

ofc, in the end, this is just some silly kids series on dragons and maybe im over-speculating on characters.

I do have other thoughts on Foeslayer/Hope, but I just wanted to throw these thoughts out there into the wild.

.

[whencartoonsruletheworld]

i feel like we’re finally at the age of information transparency on the internet that studio head execs are showing their own asses in an unprecendented way. like we all knew they were bigoted old farts who hate minorities and animation as a medium BUT now we have the entire hbo max tobacle, and that’s only the most obvious.

recently two tv shows for wings of fire and phoebe and her unicorn were cancelled– the first because of netflix budget cuts and the second because “nobody wants to watch a female-led show.” as for the latter, that’s so obviously not true that it’s laughable, what with basically every disney animated show being female-led and extremely popular incl. owl house and amphibia, legend of korra being revered rightfully for its badass queer woc main, the female-led infinity train seasons being just as popular as the male-led, my little pony getting a terrifying number of fans... i don’t even have to explain this to y’all i don’t know why i am, it’s just obvious that isn’t the case. the reason i lumped it in with wings of fire though is it shows that these execs literally have their heads so far up their own asses they don’t realize that they’re literally throwing away money. both wings of fire and phoebe are EXTREMELY popular with their target demographic– i work at a library and go to bookstores like, once a week, and wings of fire is THE kids’ series right now– every library and bookstore has a dedicated shelf just for it, every kid in the us and canada reads these gay lil dragon books. i don’t know much about phoebe but i do know that i have to shelf her graphic novels every goddamn day so they’re getting checked out constantly. making these shows would give these studios an immediate HUGE audience but they don’t want it because.......... ???? honestly the only thing i can think of is bias against animation, but also i do know that while WoF is very cishet in the first few books, later books add quite a few queer dragons and that could def be a reason. 

netflix also recently told craig mccracken, creator of some of the most beloved kids shows of the 2000s, that “original content doesn’t sell anymore” and they need to do reboots and remakes instead. which is funny coming from the company that made stranger things which, while nostalgia-bait for the 80s, is an original fucking story. also the owl house and amphibia are disney’s top shows rn. the most popular kids movie right now is encanto, a completely original story. and that’s just in KIDS MEDIA, do i need to bring up the popularity around everything everywhere all at once, squid game, the knives out franchise, etc? we’re in an age of remakes and reboots yeah but original stories can still make money and gain fans if you make a good fucking product. but netflix doesn’t care about that, as evidenced by how fast they cancelled first kill and also every other show that was good.

and idk what it is but something about the state of the internet right now means that we’re all seeing this in a way we hadn’t before. we’re all seeing how fucking dumb these execs are– well, dumb or actively malicious. or even trying to commit corporate suicide for some reason. it’s just interesting to me that all this is happening now when in the past we were just kinda like. stuck with whatever we got

[crazylittlejester]

HI OKAY so I had this ideaaaaa

first of all, I’ve had plenty of LU crossover ideas with plenty of medias I’ve indulged in- but the biggest one I’ve had the most is wings of fire :D

So I made a design for warriors, and I just wanted to show you bc I think it looks pretty cool (only got the back design done so far)

For some background context- yes ik this is a jumpscare if you don’t know wings of fire, so I’ll explain

wings of fire is a series about.. basically magical dragons. I won’t delve into all of it too far, but there’s basically 7 tribes of different dragons, and they do wacky hijinks like … prophecies and summoning crazy old mythical monsters

anywho, I haven’t worked out all the logistics yet of this au, but I decided to make warriors a sandwing! Basically, sand wings are known for being strong-headed, durable dragons who live in the desert. why did I make warriors a sand wing? Well.. uhhh.. *makes strange hand gestures* he’s blonde?/j

no lol, mostly because I remembered the fact sandwings actually own pet snakes and often dawn them around their neck. Seeing warriors had a scarf I immediately had an idea.

snakes are often sported by higher-class sand wings who can typically afford them, since- no, they do not just grab them out of the sand and go “mine now” 😭

so I thought, warriors is well off… he’s got a blue scarf.. imma give him a snake

so, in this au he’s a general that protects the stronghold, under orders from princess Artemis (hw Zelda) and his snake is actually a blue racer!

these are all just concepts and silly ideas I had lol, sorry if they don’t make sense I’m not the most organized person 😞 but I just wanted to share this idea since I thought: cool character, cool dragons

(also sorry if you actually knew wof lore before I went off about it lol, it’s a very confusing series I read a long time ago- I need to reread it-)

okay I’m genuinely fucking obsessed with how much you managed to make a dragon look like Wars, even WITHOUT the blue snake. Like you coulda sent me that image with no text and I would’ve been like “That’s him. That’s Wars.”

WINGS OF FIRE AU GOES SO FUCKING HARD OH MY GOD. I haven’t read those books since fuckin middle school, what a throw back. Sand Wing was definitely a good choice for Wars, it fits his vibe

[eyesanddragons]

Rambling incoming. People often remember the book 10 vase scene & the epilogue as poorly written (and they are), but I'd argue that what happens after the vase scene is just as badly written, if not worse.

Being told that Darkstalker not only brainwashed one of her friends, but also attempted to kill off his entire tribe with a plague, should have been the final straw for Moon. She had already experienced a SEVERE breach in trust with Darkstalker before he even emerged from the mountain, so much so that it put her into tears (end of book 8). She should have immediately realized that trying to redeem Darkstalker would necessarily put the lives of her friends, Winter's tribe, and the world at risk, as long as he still had his powers. She should have immediately started focusing on how to neutralize DS as soon as possible. Maybe neutralize him in a way where she can safely try to redeem him without gambling the world on it, but not if it requires the sacrifice of her friend's safety. She should have redirected her empathy towards the friends she KNOWS she can trust. This does not happen. Instead, she throws herself a pity-party, like she is the real victim in all of this. She stubbornly insists that he can still be redeemed much to the dismay of Winter and the questioning of Qibli, and then puts the entire world at risk by betting on him willingly eating the strawberry to find redemption. It is ONLY through the serendipitous hubris of Darkstalker that he is defeated. Yet the books do not hold Moon to task on ANY of this completely blind and genuinely selfish crusade of hers. No, it's everyone else's fault for not believing in her.

A few short pages after the vase scene, Moon outright channels suburban mom energy out of nowhere, infantilizes Winter as if he is a toddler throwing a temper tantrum over spilt milk, and basically tells him to go to his room. All because he was upset that, after being told that DS nearly wiped out the IceWings and brainwashed one of her closest friends, she wanted to go talk to the culprit. She refuses to explain why and doesn't even try to understand why Winter is so upset. Yet she calmly explains her reasons to Qibli on the very next page. This scene alone made me almost quit WoF entirely because it straight-up invalidates Winter's trauma while, somehow, framing him as the unreasonable one.

After their conversation with Darkstalker, they realize they have to tell Winter that Queen Glacier, his aunt whom he genuinely cared about and valued so much that he made it a cornerstone of his identity early in the arc, has been killed by Darkstalker's plague. So, since they are such good friends they would feel genuine empathy and sorrow for him, right? Dreading the task of telling him because it will be a genuinely difficult thing to do, to tell a close friend that a loved one of theirs died? Lmao nope. Instead, all Qibli and Moon are worried about is that he might yell at them. Moon's only response to Qibli's worry is "I've heard worse in his head." Not "he's allowed to mourn," or "he's been through a lot recently, cut him some slack." Imagine if your friends, behind your back, learned of your loved ones passing and went "Oh god, alright let's draw straws on who has to tell this guy."

The 2nd half of book 10 is, to this day, probably some of the worst, most mean-spirited writing I've ever seen in... anything really. It systematically destroyed the found family to resolve a love triangle that nobody wanted, because letting Moon and Qilbi just choose each other was apparently *not* an option.

The Vase scene and how the character's react and treat Winter in the 2nd half of Book 10 is one of the reasons why it's my least favorite WoF book. It really is unnecessarily mean spirited. Though I do wanna touch a bit on what you say here. Specifically about Moon since I think her actions her could of actually been handled in an interesting and impactful way.

This isn't to defend the Vase scene or anything...it's really bad and honestly I think it's worse with this context. I just wanna mention this since I think Moon is a really under-utilized character.

Moon's in a horrifically toxic friendship with Darkstalker, he repeatedly makes Moon feel responsible for his actions, he isolates her from her friends, he constantly pleads with her to stay with him because it'll make him better or make him stop acting horrible. It's notable that Moon is the only one Darkstalker didn't enchant because her Behavior is like someone who was enchanted. Darkstalker doesn't need to enchant Moon, he's already got his grubby in her 13 or so year old mind. Moonwatcher also has a surprisingly black-and-white worldview. Moonwatcher sorts thoughts into bad and good and judges people by them. Darkstalker exploited this by showing Moon all the good things he wants and all the good things he thinks.

If we get rid of all the magic from Darkstalker for a second what we have is a horror story where a much older teenager is manipulating a much younger one to Stay With Them so that They don't Kill Anyone. This is Deeply Horrifying and I'm not even going to touch on how he compares her to Clearsight because it becomes even creepier and I don't want to talk about stuff like that at the moment.

This is why I hate the vase scene even more! Because if we divorce it from the rest of book 10 for a bit it's actually a deeply fucking terrifying scene where Moonwatcher's sense of self is so reliant on Fixing Darkstalker that the idea of him doing something so horrible is something she can't accept because if she Does that means she's at fault.

Plus part of the worry in the vase scene is coming from how Moonwatcher trusts Darkstalker still, and how Darkstalker can read her mind. Winter is putting Moon at risk by telling her this. Could you imagine if Darkstalker Did decide to do something to Moon because of what Winter did? Moon is being put in danger by that information.

Of course we live in a world where book 10 sucks and Moonwatcher is barely a character outside of the love triangle so we don't get that. Moonwatcher's personality changes depending on what the love triangle needs to continue. The clearest example of this is Moon Wanting to Abandon waiting for Winter in Escaping Peril when SHE'S the one who wanted to wait for him in the first place!

I think one of my major problems with Book 10 is that, due to the romance plot, a lot of characters feel like there being given a script by Tui herself for the plot to go like this. So, as you mentioned, instead of acting like concerned friends who just learned that there friend's aunt was practically murdered, Qibli and Moon act really dismissive and even cruel. Complaining about being yelled at rather than the fact that Winter's Aunt is Dead. However this scene is supposed to push the romance further, to show how Winter is less attractive to Moon compared to Qibli.

Now, again, really fucked up to use his aunt's death as the backdrop here, but it is the purpose of the scene. This book is so meanspirited and horrible I Hate it god I hate Book 10-

[drippywing]

HELLO HELLO TUMBLR USER DRIPPYWING

ya might not remember (actually probably not) but a while back i made a post about chameleon and his shapes, and you said bog was dripped tf out, and i drew it! yeah not all that consequential im aware. i told my mother this story though and now shes having me write this to ask you for advice abt like. how to gain followers on here! how to make my art better with limited tools or little detals youve found make your art look nicer! ect ect

all that aside i actually really look up to you and your art is cool as FUCK oh my gog,,,

okay erm. my mother says hi and thank you SCAMPERS AWAY

ah hi!! thank you for this ask- it was so unexpected and sweet ^^

I do not post to gain followers necessarily- I have been on here consistently since 2018. I reblog most wof art I see, which makes my page like a big art gallery- which comes with a lot of people following back!

I have been drawing these dragons since 2014 or so when I started reading the books. I don't think my art is the reason people follow me most of the time, best I can suggest is be yourself and reblog artists and throw your opinion into some headcanon or book discussion posts!

[princedragonoverlord]

My thoughts on Qibli!

I decided to just write out my opinions and thoughts about Qibli, which understandably not everyone may agree with which is okay! If you don't like my interpretations or ideas no worries, I am not here to argue or make you feel the same as I do! I just want to write it out for fun :3

So I personally dislike Qibli. He's my least favorite character in WoF and I also was very disappointed about Moonbli being the end result canonically.

But I also feel like there was a ton of opportunity for his character that would've made me enjoy him more. Here's a bit of a long-ish list (also note I haven't slept in a bit so if some of this doesn't make sense I apologize):

1. I think he shouldn't have been the last book in arc 2. I feel like he was too preoccupied with thoughts about Moon and his overthinking to really have had any character growth. It seemed he was supposed to come off as witty and sharp but considering how much he overthinks it doesn't seem like he should be that sharp at all. I think he needed to overcome his overthinking when he met Thorn, he could still have doubts which would make sense as a struggle, fear of becoming as worried as he used to be.

2. I almost think maybe he should've been a side character only for helping the others, essentially the role Kinkajou played, and I feel like she should've had the last book. Though I did love her surprise being the hero moment at the end of Arc 2 and I don't think it would work from her perspective.

3. I loved him as a character when he was away from Moon. For me they felt very forced and he seemed too distracted by her when they were together. In Turtle's book he was fantastic as a friend and goofball, he wasn't near Moon for some of it which made him seem genuine and like his own dragon.

4. I like Winterwatcher more cause of the setup they had and the parallels between Winter and Moon and Darkstalker and Clearsight. As well as Arctic and Foeslayer. Seeing how Qibli was supposed to be so close to being just as bad as Darkstalker and it felt like he wasn't going to choose to save anyone, he hesitated too much for my liking and it was too sudden to be character growth. It feels like Moon and him became the reflection of Darkstalker and Clearsight, which I don't like. And avoiding Winterwatcher as perhaps a "let's not repeat mistakes of the past" is strange to me. With Moon and Winter it felt like they could work together to repair their opinions of each other's tribes. They definitely need to work out their feelings and communication but I see them becoming a very healthy reincarnated version of Arctic and Foeslayer in a way. They could've proved Darkstalker wrong and Darkstalker wouldn't have approved of it as much as he likely did with Moon and Qibli, likely seeing them as himself and Clearsight which I hate to think maybe he had satisfaction in perhaps. Though this is all obviously my own vision of things too.

5. I also think Qinter could've worked out well. They had cute moments together and it would give Moon freedom from HAVING to choose. She didn't have to choose anyone, it was strange it seemed she had no choice and was pressured into it, as if she were to be with someone forever against her will. I believe she deserved more time to get to know the 2 and maybe an obligatory ending would've been best where nothing was confirmed ship wise.

6. Qinterwatcher I also quite enjoy. I think the 3 of them make a great dynamic without pressure to choose one over another. This is the case where Moon and Qibli work without throwing Winter under the bus either. (Yes I know some view him as mean especially to Moon at the end, but I think he was having a valid reaction to the horrible situation, to a dragon that wanted his entire tribe dead. He just didn't have the words or tools to explain in the moment since he was not complete with his character arc and growth. He was improving slowly for Moon, though arguably he should improve for himself which I think is what was implied at the end of Arc 2 but it could still work with him and Moon together. I also read him as being not genuinely mean, just a hurt teen with too much societal pressure on him constantly who needed support from someone he cared about and saw being manipulated.) Anyway the 3 of them makes me happy the second most to Winterwatcher since no one is left out and that can also be thrown back in DS's face as a Ha! Didn't have to choose! Too.

7. Again I think Qibli just thought about Moon way too much. He could still crush on her but it felt like it was impairing his judgment. I wouldn't say it gave me creepy vibes necessarily, just unhealthy attachment that could eventually turn into a similar situation as DS and CS.

8. Qibli had potential as a villain or unwilling henchman. I think if he'd been charmed a bit more by DS then he could've outwardly shown more similarities to DS, cause honestly I didn't see the similarities very much at all until they were thrown in at the end. I also think he could've caused a major problem on accident the way Peril did. Trying to do something good but resulting in making the situation worse would've been great and taken his focus away from Moon more.

9. He needed more interaction with other characters. He needed to spend more time with Turtle, Kinkajou, and Peril, all of which he just kind of didn't hang out with that much which is strange considering how he wanted others to like him so why not spend time with the rest of the group more so they'll like you more?

For now that's all I have to say about Qibli. He's my least favorite but I don't absolutely hate him, he's still a good character. Just mostly disappointed in the way things could've turned out but didn't.

Anyway if you've got anything you'd like to mention or share about him and your own thoughts or anything to add on to my own feel free! I'm interested to hear about those who do like him more and why, as well as why others who don't like him don't. The only thing I ask is to not bring shipping wars into this and to remain polite of others opinions cause I welcome many different ships and ideas and love to see different perspectives! Thank you :3

[aaronymous9]

The WOF Love Interest slander has made me think about it. What would be my ideal love interests for each Wings of Fire protagonist?

Clay - Keep him without a solid one, he can have minor flings but honestly I like how the books kept him single and made it pretty clear Peril’s crush was one-sided. I don’t personally headcanon him as aromantic or anything I just think him not having a love interest is more useful and interesting to the character dynamics and the story than having one would be.

Tsunami - As I have previously stated, pathetic malewife ( gender-neutral as usual for the bisexual queen ) or equally as tough dragon who has a soft spot for Tsunami and she has one for them. I like how Riptide is the first person Tsunami meets but not in the way the books portray it, it shouldn’t just be “first male of the same tribe as her now they are dating” I feel “this was the first person I felt I could relate to on all the things I never knew why I did and you taught me so much but never used me for being a princess or forced me to be a certain way thank you”

Glory - Okay girlboss and her hitman bodyguard is cute, kinda reminds me of Yor and Loid Forger in a way but also the age gap has to go Tui how’d you fuck up the timeline that bad 😭😭 I don’t actually like how Deathbringer is written either I kinda would want more of a serious to outsiders but playful slowburn when alone with eachother. I feel like Glory wouldn’t actually get with anyone until she’s an adult because she would be so focused on her career BUT GOD GET A MAN OR A WOMAN OR WHATEVER IDC WHO IS YOUR AGE PLEASE DONT MESS UP THE TIMELINE AND IMPLY STRANGE AGE GAPS IT RUINS SHIPS

Starflight - Tbh… I love him and Fatespeaker nerdy quiet boyfriend and his bundle of energy nerdy girlfriend, just crank it up to 11 I want more I don’t care if she’s annoying it’s fun I just wish they did more with it it was so cute :(

Sunny - The aromantic queen.

Moonwatcher - Everytime I heard her worrying about “oh gosh oh me should I choose the nice funny guy who is nothing but kind to me or the nasty racist man who keeps telling me who hates me because I’m a nightwing” makes me want to rip my hair out. If you can’t tell love triangles are often poorly written and both choices are not equal. Solution: Give Qibli more apparent flaws and maybe don’t make Winter dragon racist it makes the bad boy character a lot less of a bad boy and more of “why are you giving this man the time of day Moon he hates you” energy. That was a rant and a half but basically balance it out more and in the end I don’t want her to decide. She can have some romance drama on the side but I feel like she could never choose, or she could go poly or open relationship but who knows. If I could throw Qibli and Winter in the love interest trash bin I would give Moon a quiet gf with an interesting backstory or something like that, someone who doesn’t have a bombardment of thoughts and is calm and peaceful and Moon can just chill with her. Or honestly if Arc 2 wanted to focus on plot more, discard love interest for Moon until Arc 3.

Winter and Qibli - Stated before. Honestly would prefer if Winter didn’t have a love interest at all and worked through his own issues with his friends where as I’m a little more open to Moon and Qibli personally I’m not the biggest fan. I think Qibli is another character like Clay that I can’t see any story reasons to actually give a love interest until after Arc 2.

Peril - Realize she doesn’t need Clay to love her to be worth anything and slowly come to realize to learn to love herself, maybe she gets to be with someone as an adult but after lots of healing and being able to separate her worth as a person from a partner’s love. <3

Turtle - I like how he has a crush on Kinkajou and how Anemone kind of ruins it but I don’t want it to go anywhere and I want he and Kinkajou to have more discussions about it and for them eventually decide not to get together. Or something like that I can’t really see Turtle with anyone but I liked that storyline.

Blue and Cricket: I actually really enjoy this ship and I want them to be happy, make it less sudden though Tui I stg they went way too fast but I do enjoy pathetic little boy x nerdy girl it is a very cute dynamic and made arc 3 tolerable in the first half for me.

Sundew: No complaints. Willow is amazing, I just wish she had more of a role in the story.

Snowfall: I think she and Lynx are cute but they do also work as friends, I don’t think she needs a love interest. Single girlboss.

Luna: I like Luna and Swordtail a lot actually Arc 3 had pretty good romance for Wings of Fire standards, I just wish it was fleshed out more before Luna’s POV book. Her thoughts and memories of Swordtail also made her book tolerable I’m ngl the plot was lacking but Luna and her awesome thoughts and mind and memories was super cool!!

I could also include the humans, the winglet characters and Darkstalker but I don’t want too!! Fuck the humans I hate them!!! Also I acknowledge I didn’t include any MLM ships in here at all but that’s kind of just because most male characters have pretty solid ships already which are primarily straight, which is sad that there isn’t a lot of LGBT rep in Wings of Fire besides Sundew x Willow and side characters Pineapple x Jambou(? He is so irrelevant I forgot his name help 😭 ) and arguably Sky/Peril. Maybe after Winter works through his angst he can get an emo boyfriend that would be my heart and soul.

[the-owl-tree]

Hi! So sorry if this ask is quite random and/or unusual to get, since your account mostly talks about Warrior Cats.

I heard that you’re reading Wings of Fire, so I want to ask you-

What are you thoughts and/or feelings about Kestrel, the SkyWing who’s one of the guardians of the DoD (the Arc. one protags)?

Like, her as a dragon or character, and/or how she’s written within the books.

Also, I heard that they’re some people within the WoF fandom who excuse and/or justify her abuse to the DoD because of the fact that-

❗️Spoilers❗️

❗️Kestrel thought her children died.❗️

So I’m genuinely curious about your point of view of that opinion towards Kestrel, if you’re ok with doing that too.

I’m so sorry if this is quite a big thing to ask of you, especially since you’re mainly interested and focusing on Warrior Cats,

And feel free to take all the time that you need to answer this ask. Thanks! :)

Not at all! II love being asked my opinions, I treat this blog like my personal book club to throw my opinions out at the void lol so it's never a big thing to ask. I'm not too active in any WoF circles and I've only read up to Glory's book (I should keep reading lol) but I know the whole plot reveal with Peril being her daughter.

That being said, Kestrel is still abusive. I don't think the backstory is mean to excuse her actions, just help us understand why she's the way she is. She's still awful to the DoD, cruel and harsh to the point it didn't take them that long to believe in her capability of killing one of them. Not much to say! I think she's an antagonist for a reason for the most part of the book, and her tragic backstory is just a way to understand the character better as well as add some depth to Peril as a character.

[quarrybee]

more wof yabbering why not

i don’t hate scavengers (quite the opposite if you’ve seen my previous posts) but I really wish Tui didn’t random throw in their plot relevance into flames of hope and I really thing that’s the stem of all the scavenger hate tbh

I feel like that sort of plot line could have been saved for the next arc which definitely is scavenger-centric judging from the end of dragonslayer instead of goin “HEYYYY YOU GUYS REMEMBER THE SCORCHING??” At the end book of an arc that had no business being about scavengers I mean they’re all UNDERGROUND for crying out loud

arc 3 in general is kinda all over the place in terms of theme from the wobbly and uhm Bad implications Hivewing Silkwing society + history has to the sudden turn to “oh no actually don’t worry about it guys it’s all the evil plant’s fault” to “actually it was a HUMAN behind all of this also remember the SCORCHING???”

[some-pers0n]

The WoF Wiki was WILD. I remember there was one period where for some reason they got obsessed over the idea of dragon tribe torture methods and would go into graphic detail in their headcanon posts that just seemed more like a fight to see who could be the edgiest and make up the most offensive and appalling thing (y'know like what 13/14 year olds do let's be honest) so when they got called out for violating the no gore rule they started arguing and throwing a fit about it. I remember being in the trenches like "ok man you do realize this is a book series for kids right? like i get describing how an icewing will torture someone by flaying them alive is. fun and all, but like c'mon" and such. Very silly

Also when people would have weekly arguments and fights over which characters were the worse. When I left, it seemed as though it was a main argument against Qibli 'cause he was "full of himself and not smart" like ouuhhh you're so close to getting it </3

There's more things from that time, but I'd have to try and think about them. Some stuff I remember is when the mods banned Hazbin and Helluva boss stuff with a blanket "no 18+ material" rule and the major backlash to that. I also remember the constant drama and arguing and whatever. The trolls where people with Nazi pfps would spam gore. The roleplays. I hosted at least like 4 RPs where there was at least one person who tried joining with an extremely token and stereotypical "nice but has an evil dark side". On the brighter side it was fun posting my writing and being told I was good at it

were you ever on the wof wiki?

Yep! For like three and a half years. Close to four years even. In recent months I kinda just dipped. Eh. Don't care for Fandom too much and I was outgrowing the environment and most of the people I wanted to talk with were either inactive or barely on it as well. Plus also my interest in WoF was tampering off

[wings-of-fire-confessions]

Sorry but WoF fans who FREAK out over stuff like genetics in the books kind of annoy me 😭 I don't mind people criticizing the science in WoF, but some of y'all gotta realize that Tui probably isn't as interested in biology as you are and make your peace with that. And dragons are fantasy creatures anyways, so trying to connect them to our science is a stretch.

I have to admit that the size inconsistencies in the series can be confusing? But that hardly impacts my reading experience, so I don't really care lmao. It's easy to ignore.

Yeah I just don't get why some people throw tantrums about this. If you're THAT upset, just make up your own rules.

Also, WoF fans who complain about OCs having unrealistic coloring or being AllWings or whatever suck. Let!! People!!! Have!!!! Fun!!!! Getting flashbacks to Warriors fans whining about cats having unrealistic pelt colors omg.

.

[leafsilk]

Problems with Blue

Discussion of antiblackness, slavery, and colonialism.

WoF's third arc shills a ridiculously racist narrative with Blue as its very first spearhead. Tui crafts a character who belieaves that "Not all oppressors are bad" and the story that surrounds it validates this.

Disclaimer that right away, it is fine to have a character arc start at “If I’m just nice, oppression will just not affect me. My peers should just stay out of trouble. Perhaps that person who was clearly committing a microaggression was having a bad day.” but it must end with a realization of what will truly change oppression, and this character getting to experience anger. Especially as children, this is an unfortunately common internalization of racism people of color deal with. It offers the illusion of control and allows for room to think that everyone is good at heart. Behavioral self-blame is pretty common in the face of constant mistreatment - it’s an unhealthy coping mechanism that allows people to think “I can fix this actually.” This is a real issue that affects people of color and while I don’t think it’s Tui’s place to tell a story that starts here, in better hands that were not white this would be a fine story to tell. I specifically say nonwhite here because while I’m sure there are plenty of marginalized groups that struggle with this issue, Tui has very clearly set up arc three as a race and colonialism narrative. She draws clear, pointed parallels to struggles with colonialism. SilkWings are subjugated servants to HiveWings. They are displaced and have been robbed of their culture, homes and leaders, and are separated from their families to be put to work that is not their choice. I have avoided using the word “slave” and will continue to do so for my own comfort, but Tui is telling a very bastardized and abridged story about marginalization and liberation. As wildly inappropriate and specifically antiblack (a word I have not yet seen brought up in critiques of arc 3 even though it is wildly prevalent) that is even conceptually (this is not her story to tell), I kept turning the page to see if Tui would say something meaningful, and she sure did. Even when Blue admits to himself that he isn’t at fault for his oppression, he is hell-bent on still seeing the good in HiveWings, and seems to think that saving good HiveWings will ultimately dismantle the system. The problem with this in arc 3 is that ultimately, Blue is right and validated and presented as a morally just hero. 

Blue’s turn from “All HiveWings are good at heart and probably don’t mean to be awful towards my people or maybe we’ve earned it; They’re ultimately keeping us safe.” to “Something needs to change.” is perhaps the most impressive illusory, performative parlor trick I have ever seen from a white author in my entire god damn life. Nothing short of gold medal gymnastics to throw you off the scent that the heart of Blue’s problem has ultimately not changed. While he’s willing to reluctantly acknowledge HiveWing evil now, it is always with a “Well, not all HiveWings!” and still doesn’t recognize that simply getting rid of mustache-twirling villains like Wasp and Othermind would not, in any world, fix that his people are being kept as pets and work grunts, where HiveWings read better books in better schools lit by flamesilk that is harvested from eternally imprisoned SilkWings. Tui does a lot of sleights of hand like this throughout arc 3: Wasp isn’t even really competently evil, she’s being mind-controlled, even if still awful. Sundew gets to be angry but doesn’t get to fight, and doesn’t get to be right beyond “Your feelings are so valid”. Some HiveWings wish for the return of Wasps reign and in turn, the subjugation of SilkWings, but this is presented in the epilogue of the last book as an odd side note, not a legitimate problem that is countered. I could go on, but this is a post about Blue himself.

Blue never gets to be angry. There is not one scene in the span of all five books in arc 3 where he roughs up a deserving HiveWing, or snaps angrily at someone (he passionately tries to convince his father that you can’t work within the rules to fix them, but this does not count for obvious reasons). Blue isn’t a character so much as he is Tui’s idea of how a minority should behave, because while there are POV characters who are very angry about their mistreatment (Sundew, Luna), point B for their arcs is “maybe HiveWings aren’t so bad.” and “LeafWings have done bad things too I guess.” Blue’s turn from “All HiveWings are good at heart and probably don’t mean to be awful towards my people or maybe we’ve earned it; They’re ultimately keeping us safe.” Blue’s final version of himself, that has overcome his flaws is…. A diet version of what we originally got, a compromise. 

And ultimately, Blue is right. There never is an epic battle against willing HiveWings. The problem isn’t that the Hive systemically benefits HiveWings at the expense of SilkWings and that HiveWings are complacent beneficiaries of this system, it’s that mind control is bad. Because once the mind control is gone, we cut to the peaceful LeafSilk kingdom. I want you to think long and hard about what this character alone would mean to a child of color trying to find solace and comfort in fun dragon books, trying to navigate the same internal conflict Blue does, and just how harmful it would be for their states of mind. I’m 18, and I was excited to pick up the new WOF books I’d seen lying around my local bookstore and hop right into flying around Pyrrhia, and I imagine lots of kids were and are too. I closed each book feeling a little more furious, waiting for the turnaround and will be able to walk away saying that Blue and Tui are wrong. I don’t know if these books’ target audiences and yes, even older fans, will be able to say the same.

[startheskelaton]

In book 8, Peril mentions the existence of cheese. This means a few things. #1- the dragons have access to dairy farms of some kind, if it be goats or cows. #2- fermentation is an active practice in dragon society. And finally #3- the dragons are able to consume lactose to some extent.

#1- we know that cattle farming exists in Wof as in book one, Clay’s mother tells him that he was sold for two cows, for the purpose to have them multiple and create a larger food supply. So the practice of having livestock for food isn’t unheard of but the idea of milk is another.

This means someone had to have done one of two things. Figure out how cows produce milk, find a way to obtain milk, figure out the methods of cheeses making, then find a market that was interested in buying such a food product. Or, saw scavengers milk cattle, take the pre existing cow and attempt to learn pre existing knowledge that the scavengers already had and do it on a much larger scale. Both are kinda bonkers.

#2- dragons would have some sort of knowledge about The active cultures present within cheese. So salt baths and dry aging are things. However since we know that it at least exists in the sky kingdom (because Peril knows what it is) I assume they would have goat cheese because goats would be better suited for the mountain environment. So maybe it’s more like ancient forms of Greek cheese like feda, being something that was discovered on accident but revers engineered afterwards.

#3- after some digging I found that reptiles are unable to digest lactose, being that they are not adapted to it like mammals. So if they can’t eat it, why can dragons? This could mean that after a long while of consuming dairy, they adapted a stronger gut to digest it. Now to get back to the topic of feda cheese, you may say “well since feda cheese is the most realistic form of cheese to exist in both the sky kingdom and Wof in general, then they wouldn’t actually be consuming lactose because there is none in feda”. To that I say WRONG!! It is in feda but I’m just a smaller amount!! Knowing this it’s not hard to come to a few conclusions and

Cheese is only consumed by higher class individuals and is seen as a luxury item

Cheese is only common in SkyWing culture and they adapted to eat it

All dragons have the ability to eat lactose or at least those who have access to dairy producing livestock

Tui just thought cheese sounded funny and didn’t really think about it because it was a throw away line in one book

In conclusion…… the most reasonable explanation was that a long time ago in the sky kingdom, a dragon saw a scavenger getting milk from a goat. That dragon took the goat and started making milk part of SkyWing diets, but only for Royals and nobles due to the novelty. Sooner or later feda is created on accident by transporting milk in animal stomachs and dragons considered this pretty great. Cheese becomes a standard practice for sky wings and probably some surrounding kingdoms, however they focused more on the livestock aspect as it was a more simple job. That leaves us to book 8 where Peril references cheese as she would have probably stumbled across it at a sky wing party.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk 

[gourde]

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[eyesanddragons]

The best way to describe my thoughts on canon wof (based on your reblog about liking the concept of wof)

Arc 1- fine enough, just add or remove minor things, make starflight not just a background character after he becomes blind, also no Sunnyflight crush stuff cause that is weird, give a bit more sympathy/focus to false dragonet’s of Destiny. (Or save that for arc 2 tbh), most changes I’d make are more preferential.

Arc 2- If Darkstalker is made big bad do not have our heroes enchant Darkstalker into a different dragon as the way to defeat him unless it is set up as something Darkstalker is willing to do. Do not treat Darkstalker as born evil (not counting stories Nightwings and icewings have of him cause those make sense) give more rules to animus magic,

Anything else in arc 2 is mostly character stuff with focus more on the war trauma most of the Dragonets have, give more focus to healing from the Pyrite spell and how traumatizing that spell would be.

Arc 3- Queen Wasp is evil full evil dictator. No plant actually controlling her and no scavenger/human plot (none at all, I really hate humans being major characters in wof and not just a weird little cryptic species in the background at most)

No throwing out animus magic because it is very cheap and dumb.

Give more focus to Silkwing resistance and what it does.

No bumblebee or if there is any bumblebee have her appear rarely and be given to the more involved Silkwing Resistance to protect.

I’d argue that involving Pyrrhia would not be necessary to give more time to focus on the state of Pantala.

This arc would probably be the best arc to kill off a main character/POV character/ former POV character. I don’t have any specific ideas because of how much is thrown out. But I think a main character death could be really impactful to show how strong the regime is.

Don’t make the story say “not all hivewings” you can have some nice hivewings if you want but don’t excuse all of them.

A neat subversion could be a belief that all Hivewings are innocent which leads to our main characters (Cricket POV would work best) to getting ‘help’ from some (maybe high ranking) hivewings while they are not mind controlled. Then it is revealed they set a trap and plan to kill/capture the resistance.

So in a nutshell- arc 1 is okay, arc 2 is on thin ice, and arc 3 is dead to me.

(I haven’t read any of the books since dragonslayer and I feel like I dodged a bullet from all the stuff I’ve heard about it)

(It feels weird to see how non canon (past book 12) all my wof work really is, I basically made my own sandbox with the concept and ran away lol)

Arc 1 is definitely the most solid of the three arcs, it has a lot of issue still (like what you've said about the false dragonets and Starflight) I think the way the Rainwings are handled SUCKS so I'd like to change that if I could (I know they were trying a subversion of the "hero finds there long lost people and there powerful" thing but on the flipside they made it so that the stereotypes that Rainwings are lazy and spoiled are actually right and they have to teach this entire kingdom that there lifestyle and culture is wrong and it just rubs me the wrong way, also like, the rainforest is an incredibly dangerous place, oh and also somehow they were lazy for...eating fruit and doing agriculture and not fighting in a war and its like???? and like the Rainwing government had its Issues but the idea that they have to...change a good portion of there culture and lifestyle is just...really off-putting) plus Wings Of Fire's Good Victim/Bad Victim Dichotomy is...still really prevalent in Arc 1 and I'd rather that not be there, I really dislike the way WoF as a whole handles Trauma.

But yeah Arc 1 is the most solid out of the three.

Arc 2 my beloved/beloathed, is weird, cause I really do love a lot of the character writing in Arc 2 specifically, I think it was the best in Arc 2 when it came to characterization, at least for the Jade Winglet (until the last Book RUINED EVERYTHING) but I feel like this Arc just, did not need a big bad at all, the issues the characters were facing were so much more personal it just wasn't necessary, The DoD's main problem was the war, they had smaller, more personal issues but they had the set goal of stopping the war, The Jade Winglet on the other hand don't have that kind of goal, there plotlines are more about dealing with the issues that come from having to fit societal expectations, growing up, trauma, lacking control of your life, being deprived of your choices and just generally things that are more personal, they don't need to stop a big bad, and even then, I personally think there emotional issues were way more interesting than Arc 1's "Stop the War" but that's cause I like character driven stories.

Hard Agree on the Darkstalker stuff, honestly the worst thing about the Darkstalker plotline for me is that, Darkstalker could of worked Thematically, he could of been So Good, but all his elements just mess everything up, if he didn't do genocide they'd you would have an abused child who doesn't want anyone to go through what he did and thus asserts control and takes away people's choices out of a feeling of necessity, that this is the only way to make sure people (including him) will be happy, which makes him parallel The Jade Winglet and has some interesting symbolism, if he was just a genocidal villain who wanted to control the world and wasn't portrayed sympathetically at all (so no abuse plotline and Darkstalker Legends and yadadada) then he could just be a kaiju representing the larger conflict without having any bad implications attatched to him. And him being inherently evil was such a bad move on multiple levels, Turtle in the last book just had to wrestle with the idea that no, he wasn't going to turn evil just because he was an animus dragon, and really the idea that someone is "Inherently" blank is one of the things The Jade Winglet are dealing and coping with, it wouldn't of been so bad if Darkstalker was just a pure evil villain but he's not, so it doesn't work, not to mention the problems with depicting your traumatized character as being inherently evil and always going to do bad thigs even though we know they grew up in a abusive household, framing him as inherently evil, the thing his dad was so insistent he was, is just a bad idea.

And that's not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Arc 2! I could talk at length about how I think the way animus dragons are treated is bad, I have talked at length before, because I think the "soul becomes evil" animus magic thing is nonsense and I think Darkstalker's magic soul reader is also complete nonsense, and also goes against the themes of the arc-

God I've rambled a lot and these are very unorganized thoughts but I really wish Arc 2 was better cause there's so many things I like about it which just makes me more angry about how many bad things are in it.

On Arc 3...*aims BIG GUN at all the genocide, colonialist, and slavery apologism and fires 100000 bullets*

Arc 3 is dead to me, I hate it so much.

Sorry this is a bit rambly I have a lot of feelings about this series.