#THE FACT HES A LAPSED CATHOLIC IN THE COMICS TOO. CHRIST.

[fellhellion]

hi for the love of everything hello

[archivedjuice]

It's not that I necessarily want Matt to be Catholic. (I am not religious.) It's just that he is, and ignoring character traits for personal preference (to the point of complete disownment) has always been weird to me. Understandable (we want a character to be who we want them to be), just odd. I mean, there are traits I hate on certain characters and I'll ignore them, but I know they're still there in canon. That's why I said it's cool if you like atheist Matt, but that doesn't mean Matt is atheist.

I actually don't have a bias towards live-action.* I love the comics very dearly. But it's been nearly 60 years of comics, so that's quite a lot to look through for specific examples to support what I said. That's my fault though. I was being lazy.

You seem to have contradictory stances on Matt's comic religion across different posts, so it's hard for me to keep a consistent reply. Sometimes, you mention a compulsory faith for the time period. But then in post 746073669336498176, you say, "matt was never catholic before that." I can't get a read on your exact position.

But anyway…

Yes, Smith's run in 1998 can be considered an outlier. Some of its Catholic elements are as heavy-handed as the current run. And some actions (like trying to murder a baby for being the anti-Christ) are too distorted by Mysterio's gas to get the most accurate read on Matt's belief system throughout. But that arc still begins and ends with a not-gassed Matt in confession with a priest. Wearing a crucifix necklace while he is. Iterating his childhood spent studying in church. And the final words of #8 being, "To do my father's work," referencing God. The story is an outlier for its severe piety, sure, but… the whole thing is still canon. Still Matt being Catholic, for better or worse.

More religion and confession in #267... More in #348... But I hesitate to get nitpicky on every. single. instance. of Matt showing any signs. I'd have to comb through the whole catalogue.

Also with Nocenti, any time Mephisto comes up, you run the risk of one reference or another. #266 is one. #280-#281 is another-- in which Matt believes he's in a frozen Hell. Comes upon a church confessional he thinks will provide relief. He "prayed" (his word) he could make fire out of a cross, and does. It ends up being part of what saves him. Meanwhile, narration compares his journey to something like The Divine Comedy, with him traveling Heaven and Hell. (The symbolism alone is good. The accompanying religious belief is not absent.)

This is long enough, and I don't want to keep poring over the source material. I can if you want?

It's not that Matt isn't religious. It's just that religion doesn't come up often. (Good, this is about a superhero.) But when it does, all signs point to him being a believer. If you want to say, "Comic Matt isn't Catholic… as soon as I exclude this instance, this one, and this one," that's fine for your personal headcanons. But you are… ignoring the fact that Matt is Catholic. You're trimming off parts of canon so he fits in the box.

He's not devout. That is true. Matt's religion comes up so infrequently (excluding recent writing), it clearly isn't a large aspect of his personhood. But it still comes up. So… with his foundational youth in the church, occasional references he still believes in God/religious symbols, and no evidence he ever actually turned away from those beliefs, I still consider "lapsed Catholic" to be the best label for Matt. It's not like I'm trying to convert him for my own ends (I have no bias one way or the other), but I am plugging comic canon into Occam's Razor to arrive at the conclusion Matt Murdock is Catholic. The greater burden of proof is on the position he's atheist, and I can't think of any.

Maybe Matt being Catholic is boring for you personally, and that's fine.

*(My mention of the 2003 movie wasn't anything other than a reference to the reply where you said there was no evidence of him being Catholic prior to the tv series. But the movie is one really obvious one. I wanted to point out a too quick conclusion that the 2015 adaptation didn't come up with the concept first. Again, I was lazy and that's my fault.)

"He's not devout. That is true. Matt's religion comes up so infrequently (excluding recent writing), it clearly isn't a large aspect of his personhood." yeah okay. all that just to prove my point man