#She's just so neat I've been itching to draw her

[yinmeowjii]

Jolly scribbles 🎄

[oodlyenough]

I agree particularly about Iris. As soon as we got the twin reveal in 3-5 I felt the writing started to veer towards this meme:

And the difference, to me, was that at least Evil Baby Dahlia makes a fun, compelling character, while Iris suffers from being less flashy/funny and from being attached to a romance Capcom drops as abruptly as they introduce it.

In that regard Iris' writing bothered me a lot more from a feminist POV than Dahlia's did. That we never got to see her and Pearl interact, and especially that the only thing we got of them was ... Pearl being jealous on Maya's behalf of Iris/Phoenix lmao.... urgh. I am much more interested in how Iris relates to Dahlia and the rest of the Feys (and how the Feys relate to her) than I am in Iris/Phoenix, especially in the flat way the game presented it.

I definitely agree that it's impossible for me to imagine them sliding into being best friends; there's a lot of baggage there whether the game was prepared to acknowledge it or not, and while I can sort-of buy there might be an initial desire to hash things out and bury the hatchet/etc, I certainly don't see it developing into a healthy romantic relationship long-term and I don't even really imagine it turning into a close friendship, even before you factor in what's coming down the pipe with AA4. Phoenix is basically an honorary Fey, so I'm sure they'd run into each other sometimes, be friendly/polite, have a soft spot for each other, but that's kind of as far as makes sense for me.

...people feeling the need to push female characters into neat little boxes of "completely and utterly evil" or "perfect sweetheart who's never done anything wrong ever" [...] way people treat often the Hawthornes, especially Iris.

That's very much how I feel, too. And unfortunately the twins are really set up by Capcom for fandom to take them in those exact directions. Iris has been kind of an itch I've wanted to scratch since finishing AA3, in that the writing didn't sit very well for me and on one hand I'm not especially inclined to "fix" it (via fic) but on the other hand it ... just bugs me that it wasn't better. 3-5 had so, so much I loved and then dropped the ball on some things in a major way for me and I find it frustrating. One of those things was how it (under)wrote Iris and Iris/Phoenix.

it's pretty much the only scene where it feels like the game is being somewhat pitying to her story. In other scenes she's pretty much always framed as an evil, wolf-in-sheep's-clothing type of character.

On Dahlia, I agree that she's treated in the story as pretty unequivocally Born Evil. I mean she's literally on the stand in 3-5 like "your honour I was born evil and I died evil and I'm still evil posthumously", lmfao. This... actually doesn't really bother me very much, from a feminist pov, because I think it's comparable to how male villains are treated in the trilogy (neither Engarde or MVK are sympathetic and their motivates are equally or more one-dimensional), and also because the trilogy has many other female characters of varying types and development, so Dahlia doesn't come across as representative the way she otherwise could. Also just because Dahlia is such a fun, lively, memorable character, IMO. No other trilogy villain gets to star in 3 cases! So she didn't really feel left behind by the narrative to me the way Iris does. She appeals to me the same way a character like Gone Girl's Amy Dunne appeals to me.

If I were to rewrite anything in particular about Dahlia's story I'd probably tweak the writing around Fawles. Either make them closer in age or draw more attention to the gross discrepancy. My inclination would be to close the gap, because I think it sucks that Capcom chose a gross enough age gap to overshadow the rest of the story when the story itself isn't interested in that element. (Of course. Look at Turnabout Big Top, lol...) So I also get that some fans are seeing that, seeing how gross the idea of "my teen angel" is, and working from there to address it in their meta/fic. But Fawles is far from Dahlia's only kill and we don't even really have many details there, so recasting her as a sort of Jennifer's Body quasifeminist revenge tale doesn't interest me personally.

But there's places in her story where the basic facts of it mean she might have been more sympathetic, for sure, and I take the comparison to Diego. (Incidentally, I was ... not a fan of how the story framed him, lol.) There are some instances in the story where what Dahlia tells us and what another character (usually Bikini or Iris) tells us don't align -- for eg whether it was Mr Hawthorne who decided to get rid of Iris or whether it was, as Dahlia claims, actually her idea. So I think those discrepancies, intentional or not, are interesting and if someone is so inclined you can ask yourself how much of Dahlia's "born evil" persona is genuine and how much is something she's adopted as a self-defense mechanism. How much is Iris right about her just needing love/support and how much is Dahlia just like that? Nature vs nurture is the classic twin story. AA3 only touches it briefly.

I've been thinking a lot about how fandom attitudes towards female characters shift, and how a lot of the outright hatred that was once prevalent now is replaced by "girlboss" "mom friend" "only braincell" type discourse... and also about the Hawthorne twins and what I see of them in fandom vs canon.

It's interesting to me that I see a lot of what feels like a fandom desire to rehabilitate Dahlia as a character from a feminist perspective, sometimes taken as a given that her canon material was bad, when ...tbqh I don't really feel that she needs it. If I think of characters wronged by their canon text, Dahlia wouldn't make the list. Even a surface-level reading of Dahlia is, imo, a compelling character, with clear motivations, consistent behaviour, agency. She's funny and memorable. You can dig deeper into speculation and headcanon territory with Dahlia (and I totally get the impulse, she's great and there's lots of potential there) but I don't think you need to do that to make her a solid character, I think she already is. I don't think she's any less complex than the other trilogy villains, and if anything she's a lot more complex already than someone like Engarde, and on par with Von Karma.

On the other hand, I think Iris got some paper-thin writing as "the good twin" and, let's be honest, a feeble attempt to set up a heterosexual romance for Phoenix which gets dropped in subsequent games anyway. There are interesting possible complexities to tease out of Iris, just as with Dahlia; Iris facilitates or participates in some pretty messed-up things, but Phoenix and the story are very forgiving, which just flattens her out further into Good Twin. I don't think the canon is very interested in Iris outside of her role as plot twist doppelganger and occasional blush sprite... and mostly it seems the fanon Iris gets in response is to quadruple down on those things. She's pure and kind and sweet, besties with Phoenix, their relationship is cast as something wholesome and innocent, despite the uh objective reality of it.

What about the Iris who helps her sister plan harebrained criminal schemes only to back out at last second, the Iris who fell in love with Feenie despite herself and yet continued to lie and place him in danger for eight months, who watched Dahlia get a death sentence without ever coming clean ... Those things are the aspects that would make her a multidimensional character, imo, but they're ignored and/or glossed over in the story and (what I've seen of) fandom. And I don't say this to mean that she's evil or irredeemable or something, she isn't -- just that the basic fact of her actions is a lot messier than is usually acknowledged, by canon or fanon. For the canon I think the reasons are obvious and not flattering; for fandom, I think the intentions are generally positive, trying to correct for the opposite end of the spectrum (and 20 years ago the attitude was probably quite different), but I still wish female characters were given more space to be complicated in ways that include being kind of fucked up actually.

[gamergirlshelby]

"Can we talk about the BNHA OC Comeback timeline? I've been dying to talk about my theories for the BNHA OC Comeback timeline all day!"

-Me to anyone willing to listen.

Here are the ramblings of me, someone who has no restraint when it comes to coming up with crazy theories about their interests, rambling about their theories on how the BNHA OC Comeback timeline could work.

Note: this is all speculation, and if the people in charge of the AU deem it to not be canon it is not. This was just something I did for fun because I wanted to do some writing. That is why I said could happen and not should happen, because this is all just fun speculation, and none of the other fandoms I am a part of have been able to scratch that itch for me lately.

Also, I will be talking about spoilers for a majority of the anime, but mostly stuff revealed in seasons 3-5, with a little bit of stuff from seasons 1 and 2, since those are the seasons with a lot of the important details that I will be attempting to write work arounds for. I will also be using the Wiki's names for story arcs (a list of which can be found here) when referring to specific plot events.

My ramblings about my theories are under the read more:

Also, to start this off, this speculation was pretty much brought upon by this post from the official BNHA OC Comeback blog, but what is important here is the tags.

I think the idea of Class 1-A and Class 1-B being third years would be a good starting point for what I want to be diving into.

First point should be a little obvious but in this timeline, Deku still inherits One for All from All Might. This is mainly because if he didn't, if someone where to write or draw an interaction between this version of class 1-A with, lets say class 1-X for this example, Deku would likely not be there, due to not having a quirk, causing the question of "who is the 20th student in class 1-A?" One for All would likely be passed down to someone else (most likely Mirio because Nighteye was going to recommend him to All Might in the first place, and if Deku is not going to inherit it, I doubt there would be anything in the way of Mirio getting One for All)

Second point I want to point out is the battle between All Might and All for One that had happened before the events of the show. I think All Might will still suffer from his injuries from the fight, and continue being the symbol of peace, even if it is killing him. BUT I think it would be best if All for One gets defeated and gets put into hiding, not initiating any of his plans or finding Tomura Shigaraki. Tomura never getting taken in by One for All would also cause the League of Villains to never form (at least not in the way we are familiar with) so we.

Third Point is, although this is speculation, and I do not know where Nomus come from, I do think, even without the league of villains, there would be some sort of lab somewhere where Nomus are being created, likely as one of the last things All for One was able to set into motion before going into hiding in the AU. (I mostly went with this because I think Nomus as a concept are really cool, and I think it would be great to have some sort of generic enemy for the 1-X and 1-Y students to have to face without the need of creating a new organization)

Fourth Point is because All for One is in hiding, so All for One can not force All Might to reveal his "injured form" (I dunno what else to call it), but I do think when All Might and Sato get engaged, he will maybe (and this is a big maybe) reveal it to the public on his own, as more of a "I'm retiring and settling down now" then a "You must keep fighting because I can not" thing, causing crime to not sky rocket, but still rise because there is no more symbol of peace, since there is still the possibility (at least in the publics mind) that All Might could come out of retirement and go back to saving people.

Alright now I begin with some of the actual stuff that actively happened in the show that Class 1-A and Class 1-B had experienced.

Alright so everything at the beginning of the anime is the same, going up until the USJ arc. This is because, as stated previously, there is no League of Villains to attack the USJ. The only thing I can think of that could possibly stay the same is the All Might vs Nomu fight, because I think Nomus as a concept are cool and that was an awesome fight. The only way for the fight to happen though is that the Nomu is let loose somewhere else, like a highly populated area, because it makes no sense for it to be at USJ without the League.

Next is the sports festival, and this would also go the same. But after that is probably the most interesting arc I leave mostly unchanged, being the Hero Killer Arc. This is because, even without a League of Villain's, there would still be people following Stain's ideologies after he is detained, so I think maybe there could be some sort of small unorganized group of people following Stain's beliefs that there are no more "true" heroes. The group of stain followers would likely be the characters that had joined the League of Villains after the Hero Killer Arc (like Dabi, Himiko Toga, and Twice). It is also unchanged in the sense that the students are interning with Pro Heroes, and that Nomus are running around, being a cool concept (can you tell I like Nomus? I just think they are neat.).

Next is the Final exams Arc, which would go unchanged, but the next arc, the Forrest Camp Training arc, would also not have a League attack (because there is no league), and Class 1-A and Class 1-B have a normal experience at the training camp, causing there to be no Hideout Raid arc, because there is no hideout to raid.

Next, the Provisional License Exams are the same results, so no change here, except Camie Utsushimi would be there instead of Toga's impersonation of her, and still ending up to need to take the Remedial Course.

After that is the Shie Hassaikai Arc and then Remedial Course Arc. The Shie Hassaikai Arc would actually largely go unchanged because it is mainly just another internship for the Hero Course students, with the only change to the arc being the League involvement being removed, even though this would leave some plot holes, which I will fill by saying the small unorganized Stain followers would take the place of the league (since Toga and Twice are apart of the Stain followers group, so they would still end up working for them, filling the same rolls they had in the original Arc). Also Overhaul doesn't lose his arms because there would be no reason for him to get them ripped off (because there is no League of Villains). ALSO this means Eri would be canon to the BNHA OC Comeback, which I wanted to mention since from my knowledge she is a fan favorite. After that, the Remedial Course would go unchanged.

I'm also going to say that Mirio will have already gotten his quirk back during the main events of the AU, since Nighteye had predicted that he would get it back before Nighteye had died. How he gets it back will likely go unanswered, since I have not read ahead to the most recent chapter of the manga, only watching the anime, so we should leave the answer to how he got it back to be unclear just in case he gets it back in a spoiler-y way.

Then, lastly as of right now, the rest of the arcs would go unchanged up untill the latest arc where Todoroki, Midoriya, and Bakugo are interning with Endeavor, excluding the parts of the arc going into the Meta Liberation War, which can not properly go through thanks to their being no League of Villains, but especially because there is no Tomura.

Alright now we get to the stuff some of you are here for, being the new info and timeline stuff that occurs during the year Class 1-X and 1-Y are first years. First off, Class 1-A and Class 1-B would now be third years, which was a concept brought up in the original post that cause my brain to go into theory mode.

I would also like to pose the idea of a new "Big Three", replacing Mirio Togata, Tamaki Amajiki, and Nejire Hado (and also the nameless "Big Three" from when 1-A/1-B had been second years in this AU) since 1-A and 1-B are now all third years. This new "Big Three" would be made up of Katsuki Bakugo, Shoto Todoroki, and Izuku Midoriya, seeing as out of Class 1-A and Class 1-B, those three have shown to be the most consistent heavy hitters (and also being the most relevant to the original plot).

Aside from that, Class 1-A and 1-B would not be doing that much in the AU aside from the new "Big Three" occasionally helping out the first year Hero Course students with their studies.

Anyway if you read this far I really appreciate it. I have some more ramblings about stuff in the tags, but its more side stuff that doesn't really effect this AU within another AU.