#SPN Mid Season Finale

[my-supernatural-rewatch]

Episode 10: Asylum

Dean Winchester in the Supernatural episode Asylum

Another episode where I kind of forgot that I had seen it until I got a good 15 minutes into it.

Dean and Sam investigate an abandoned insane asylum that might be causing people to go insane when a police officer who went inside kills his wife and then himself.

Two cops go into an abandoned insane asylum looking for whoever broke in and one of them says "Let's split up." Nothing good ever happens after someone says "Let's split up." (this will also come back to us later in the episode.) Ironically, the dude who says "Let's split up" isn't the dude who ends up dead.

So off-screen, some time between this and the last episode, Dean told Sam that he called John and that John never responded. So now Sam is worried that John could be dead (because that's what a normal person would think if their own fucking father didn't respond to a teary phone call from their brother) and Dean snaps, insisting he isn't dead. Which is when Sam drops a truth bomb on Dean, "What? He's hiding? He's busy?"

No shit, Sam...he's an asshole.

So John texts Dean coordinates...no hi. No how's Sam doing? Not a fucking thing but coordinates. And Deans' thrilled and Sam's annoyed.

It is not often I side with Sam but in this episode there is a big part of me siding with him about John.

Our currently ever optimistic Dean (when it comes to John, anyway) is hopeful that if they go to Rockford, Illinois (where the coordinates are) - John will be there. Sam knows this is most likely bullshit and really doesn't want to drag his ass to Illinois.

"If he wants us there, it's good enough for me!" I don't have to tell you who said that, right? Then when Sam pushes back, Dean comes up with:

"Dad's telling us to go somewhere; we're going!"

Sam is not happy but, you know, Dean has the car keys so what choice does he have?

And here we have another episode where Dean spends a bit of time making fun of Sam's newfound psychic abilities. This will never, ever make sense to me. They hunt the fucking supernatural. Dean should be excited about this new aspect of this brother's personality and be trying to use it to, you know, do their fucking job.

When they've been in Illinois long enough to realize that John isn't going to be there, Sam wants to discuss it. Predictably, Dean doesn't.

Dean's response to Sam's attitude about John made me laugh, even if I don't think it's true:

"That's why I always got the extra cookie."

For fuck's sake, Dean, we come to find out there wasn't even any extra cereal, let alone cookies. Get this man a psychologist please.

More sibling squabbling leading to Sam asking the question on all of our minds:

"So, what? We gotta always follow Dad's orders?"

Guess what Dean says? GUESS????

"Of course we do."

Oh Dean. OH Dean. You break my little heart.

Sam talks to a psychiatrist as a patient because he's the son of the psychiatrist who worked at the abandoned insane asylum and he's trying to get info out of him. He gives him pieces of the truth: his real name and the fact that he's on a 'road trip' with his brother. Leading the doctor to ask the question we'd all like to hear the answer to:

"This brother you're road tripping with. How do you feel about him?"

But guess what? They cut away from Sam's serious look just before he responds so we don't know what he said. But we do know he spent a LOT of time in the doctor's office because when he finally comes out the first thing Dean says is:

"Dude, you were in there forever. What the hell were you talking about?"

Yeah, Sam. What?

One note about earlier in the episode. Sam and Dean got to a bar to talk to the cop who uttered the "Let's split up" line before his partner went nuts. Dean pretends to be a reporter and Sam comes in and pushes him around for bothering the cop so Sam can gain the cop's trust and get info from him.

When it's all said and done, we get this interaction with the brothers:

Dean: Shoved me kinda hard in there, buddy boy. Sam: I had to sell it, didn't I? It's method acting. Dean: Huh? Sam: Never mind.

Now first off, no way does Dean NOT know what method acting is. He's too much of a pop culture fiend to not know. But let's forget them making Dean dumb AGAIN for a moment. Sam shoved Dean hard on purpose. Sam has a hate boner for Dean in this episode that I guess is due to Dean's loyalty to John...I don't know, this is Supernatural, nothing is ever that obvious...but the shove, and then him talking to the psychiatrist about Dean...and then what comes up very soon at the asylum...for the one that got away from the family and the abusive father, Sam has a complex about Dean as if Dean was the one who had it better and that annoys the shit out of me.

Back on track:

This is another episode that was shot very dark for a lot of scenes. Note to cinematographer's: I don't need to SEE the darkness to know the episode is dark.

Also, quite random, one of the two people in the asylum when Dean and Sam get there is named Gavin. I get that there are over 300 episodes of this show but there are so many more names to use - why does this show repurpose names so often? (The woman's name is Kat...which I can't remember off the top of my head, but I'm sure we got another Kat at some point too.)

When they figure out who the spirit is, Dean opens up with a little honesty:

"The only thing that makes me more nervous than a pissed off spirit, is the pissed off spirit of a psycho killer."

Word, Dean.

When it comes time to search the asylum, Dean says the dreaded words: "I guess we're gonna split up then." And, just like at the beginning of the episode, the one who decides to split up isn't the one the spirit goes after.

Dean takes Kat with him while Sam goes it alone. Unlike most of the previous eps where Dean figures out the big THING, Sam is the one who figures out that the ghosts that keep going after them aren't the violent spirit but are trying to tell them something. When Dean loses Kat to the ghost, Sam is the one to convince her to listen to the ghost. She does...and they figure out where they have to go.

More angry Sam: He tells Kat and Gavin that hunting ghosts is basically their job and when Kat asks if Dean is his boss he responds with an angry and curt, NO. No "We're brothers." Just NO. Sam is pissy today.

So they discover that basically the spirit of the psychiatrist was trying to work on aggressive behaviors and instead of helping the patients he made it much worse...and in death he was doing it to people like the cop at the beginning of the episode and now...Sam.

So Sam was angry all episode just so this could happen. Okay.

Without hesitation, when Dean figures out Sam isn't right, Sam shoots Dean right in the chest with the shotgun full of rock salt. Doesn't fucking hesitate.

Before he does, though, and before Dean figures out something isn't right, Dean tells him to put the shotgun down and when Sam asks if that's an order and Dean tells him it's a 'friendly request' Sam responds:

"’Cause I'm getting pretty tired of taking your orders."

And then after he shoots Dean, we get this scene:

Dean: We gotta burn Ellicott's bones and all this will be over, and you'll be back to normal.

Sam: I am normal. I'm just telling the truth for the first time. I mean, why are we even here? ’Cause you're following Dad's orders like a good little solider? Because you always do what he says without question? Are you that desperate for his approval?

Dean: This isn't you talking, Sam.

Sam: That's the difference between you and me. I have a mind of my own. I'm not pathetic, like you.

Dean: So what are you gonna do, huh? Are you gonna kill me?

Sam: You know what, I am sick of doing what you tell me to do. We're no closer to finding Dad today than we were six months ago.

Dean: Well, then here. Let me make it easier for you. (He holds a pistol out to Sam.) Come on. Take it. Real bullets are gonna work a hell of a lot better than rock salt. Take it!! (Sam takes it and points it at Dean) You hate me that much? You think you could kill your own brother? Then go ahead. Pull the trigger. Do it!

Sam pulls the freaking trigger but nothing happens. There are no bullets. He pulls the trigger two more time and Dean is finally done. He punches Sam dead in the face.

Dean: Man, I'm not going to give you a loaded pistol.

Now, point to Dean for knowing Sam isn't really Sam here and not just killing his ass. But don't tell me there isn't a lot of truth to what Sam said under this influence. I don't think he wanted to KILL Dean, that was definitely the psychiatrist/spirit but he was already exhibiting all that anger toward Dean before the spirit got to him and this was his opportunity to dump it all back on Dean.

So Dean finds the bones of the doctor because of course he does...and after the doctor's spirit makes it difficult, he still finds his Zippo and burns the bones...yay Dean!

When the bones are burned and Sam is back to being Sam, he apologizes to Dean for the things he said. Dean seems a little surprised that Sam remembers what he said (another clue to me that Dean thinks like I do and that Sam really meant what he said).

Sam tells him he didn't mean any of it...and Dean is obviously not buying it - but he doesn't want to talk about it:

"I'm not really in the sharing and caring kind of mood."

Now in a perfect world, that's how the episode ends. Dean pissed and Sam worried about how much he pissed Dean off. But no...we can't have nice things. Instead we get Sam and Dean sleeping in a motel room and Dean's phone ringing. For whatever reason, Dean sleeps through it and Sam answers it.

Guess who finally remembered he had sons?

Some notes for posterity:

Only one song in this ep. Is that right? Okay. Bachman Turner Overdrive's Hey You.

Dean tells the dead cop's partner that he's Nigel Tufnel from the Chicago Tribune. Sam tells the psychiatrist his real, full name.

Movie References: Dean brings up The Shining again and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest while doing a pretty decent Jack Nicholson impression. He mentions Yoda, Haley Joel Osment, Patricia Arquette and Jennifer Love Hewitt (the latter two both played psychics on television shows) and the Nigel Tufnel reference comes from This is Spinal Tap.

This hunt takes place in Rockford, Illinois.

Dean uses a lighter to burn the bones of the psychiatrist.

[the-mpreg-guy]

I know it's not that serious, but wasn't the Amy pond arc the excuse sam gave for killing dean's daughter? Like ok she was an amazon or whatever but (TO ME!!) Sam was nutso for thinking that dean killing the friend he had for a week as a kid gave him the justification to kill Emma without doscussion. Like in my mind those are NOT equal and equivalent !!!! But also Emma makes me insane so maybe I'm over reacting. I also hate how they add in stuff like Emma/killing Emma for drama, and then never have them talk about it ever again. She's just never mentioned! His daughter!!

You're right, but it's also more complicated. In a vacuum, Emma Winchester is baffling. They give Dean a child and within fifty minutes kill her. She's never mentioned again, even though most of his future children serve as interesting parallels to the "monster" child situation. Sam acts like Dean was on the floor, bleeding out, with a knife to his throat when he took aim at a child and killed her. His justification is that Dean made him mad by killing someone he made out once with as a child and was killing homeless people.

Rhetorical question to push this to it's logical conclusion, but why create Amy and Emma in the first place? Let's say the Amy Pond situation was invented to give Sam a reason to kill Emma. Why invent Emma in the first place? How did she serve the narrative? What was the point of creating her if they were gonna immediately kill her and never mention it again?

In my opinion, s7 is about Sam and Dean being pushed away by circumstance enough that Sam can justify not looking for him in purgatory (a decision that s9-s11 creates beautiful consequences for). I do agree that Amy was created to give Sam "justification" to kill Emma (and hate Benny) but Imo it's more than that. All of these little fractures in Sam and Dean's relationship eventually gets them both to a point that Sam would fine and cool with abandon his brother purgatory and Dean would justify lying to him about Gadreel.

[gayeddiejuice]

you want me to hate him??? he's literally so funny pls

[jasmines-library]

What do you think about a Batfam x Supernatural crossover??? Like, Reader is Dean's twin, and Sam's older sister, but she can't take the boys' nonsense anymore (like the pranks in the first season) and goes out to hunt a nest of vampires alone, only in Gotham, Batman V and confronts her, she even runs away but is caught, so she tells the truth, he takes her to the mansion and everyone is extremely shocked that these creatures are real (including Bruce) but there is no way to deny the facts!! And meanwhile the boys are freaking out because their badass sister is missing and they're looking for her like crazy?

Changes

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Note: (how strange, someone requested something very similar: anonymous also requested here.

Warnings: Swearing, blood and gore but not descriptive.

Word Count: 1.9k

⛧ BATFAM MASTERLIST ⛧ SPN MASTERLIST ⛧

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You had finally had enough. You just couldn’t take it anymore. The constant bickering and blame passing, the constant nights spent laying awake blaming yourselves when another got hurt…you were sick of it. 

It was in the very early hours of the morning that you slipped out the door, with a handful of your belongings stuffed into a bag. It’s not like you had planned to ;eave forever..you just needed to get away for a little while. To take a breath of fresh air. You had found a hunt a few states over; a nest of vampires which should be simple enough. 

You made your way to the bus station about 10 minutes before your bus was supposed to leave. It was just a short walk from the motel. You had considered taking a car or hitching a ride with someone, but you knew that Sam and Dean would be able to track you much easier if you did that. So, you opted to take a bus and exchange half-way there just to make sure they wouldn’t follow behind as quickly as you wanted them to. If you were lucky, you would make it back before they even figured out where you were. To say that they were going to be pissed when they found out would be an understatement. But you were an adult, for crying out loud. Hell, you were the same age as Dean and he seemed to run off without a care in the world. 

There was little to no-one on the bus as it sped down the freeway. Supposedly that's because most people weren’t mad enough to get up at 2 in the morning to get on a bus. Either way, it was nice. You had disabled the tracker on your phone and plugged in your headphones to prepare for the drive. 

Gotham city was a strange place. Extravagant, but strange. Dawn was slowly creeping into day when you hopped off the bus, and you could tell that the city was lively. There were people roaming the streets as the streetlamps flickered off and the lights inside the skyscrapers blinked on. There were dog walkers, couples holding hands and businessmen hailing cabs over the road. An eerie feeling hung about the city. You couldn’t place it, but there was something malevolent about this city. With the high rise buildings and twisting alleys,it seemed the perfect place for crime. The city was so big that people could just vanish. It was the perfect place for vampires. 

You found your hotel a little way up the street. It was quaint with only one bed and a small table next to the wall by the ensuite, but it suited your needs perfectly. 

Concealing a machete is not easy. Even though the city had died down slightly now it was past the mid-day hubbub, there were still people everywhere and you did not want to risk being caught by the police for carrying a weapon around. By wearing one of your jackets, you managed to conceal it under your arm as you began to scope out the city to find where the vampires were supposedly nesting. 

When you finally found it, it seemed to tick all of the boxes: glazed windows, outskirts of the city, two entrances that you hoped wouldn’t lead to your untimely demise. Vampires were never very subtle. They were always the same. 

The entrance to the building was concealed down a side-road. Checking your surroundings to make sure the coast was clear, you began to work on the lock. It snapped open and you made your way inside. 

~

Sam and Dean were frantic. 

The day had started out like any other. Sam had slipped out the door early in the morning for his run (a habit which Dean despised and thought was completely unnecessary). He had made nothing of the pile of pillows which you had stacked up on the couch beneath a blanket. It was only when he returned to find Dean nearly burning a floor in the carpet as he paced, taking angrily into the phone. 

“No, I don't know where she could have gone, that's why I'm calling you!”  Dean was scared. Sam could tell that from the first word he spoke. 

There was a pause as the person Dean was on the phone to spoke. Clearly, he wasn’t happy with the response they gave as he slammed the phone shut and threw it across the room. 

“Son of a bitch” he yelled, hands coming up to pinch the bridge of his nose. 

“What's going on?” Sam asked. He had a nasty feeling that he already knew. 

“Y/Ns missing.”

“What?” Sam blinked. 

“Yeah. I thought she’d been snatched at first but most of her stuff is gone too.”

Sam bit his lip. “Have you tracked her cell?”

His older brother nodded. “Nothing. I’ve tried calling her too. She’s turned it off.”

“Shit.”

~

You had managed to get yourself in a little bit of a pickle. And by ‘little bit of a pickle’, I mean ‘there were a lot more vampires than you thought and now you were fighting for your life’. So the usual, really. 

When you had slunk inside the building it was completely silent as the vampires sheltered from the sun. But as you moved further into the room and began counting how many there were, you paled. Things hit the fan when you stepped backwards and knocked over a stack of books. All eyes snapped to you and you struggled to keep up with the sheer number of them. The scent of blood and sweat filled the room as you fought and swung. Most of it theirs, but some of it yours. 

No matter how many you took down, their attacks never seemed to end. You had just sliced the head off of one when another three raced before you. They were about to reach you, their fangs bared and snarling, when someone tackled them to the ground. The boy was tall, muscular and dressed from head to toe in black, besides the brown jacket slung over the top and the red emblem on his chest. Another figure appeared to your left, also dressed in black. Though this time, his face was concealed by a domino mask and a blue symbol was imprinted on the front of it. 

Although the vampires went down, it seemed the two vigilantes didn’t know how to kill them which meant that even with their help, you were going to get nowhere. So as they tussled with them, you swung your arm to defeat the one before you before moving to help them. When the last one went down, their attention snapped toward you as you wiped the end of the machete with the hem of your sleeve. 

“What the hell was that?” The one in blue had you pinned up against the wall before you could even blink. 

You scoffed. “A thank you would be nice.”

You pushed against his arm, trying to free yourself but he had you stuck firmly in place. 

He lowered his voice, leaning closer to you. “I’m gonna ask you again: what the hell were they?”

“You won't believe me.” You told him slyly.

“Try us.” The one in red said. 

“Vampires.”

The one in red snorted. “Funny. Now start talking before we arrest you for murder.”

“I told you you wouldn’t believe me.” You rolled your eyes. “If you let me go I’ll prove it to you.”

~

Dick and Jason honestly weren’t sure if they believed you or not. They had heard the commotion when they passed a building on patrol. People had been going missing in the area recently and they were investigating the area. When they saw you inside they were taken aback. Their initial instinct was to attack you, but when they realised that you were trying to stop the group of people they realised it was you who needed help. They thought it would be easy to take them down. That was until they actually tried. The attackers had sharp canines that came very close to their faces and only stilled when you attacked them with your machete. 

When you revealed to them that they were vampires, they thought you were messing with them, but after you showed off their sharp fangs, they were convinced 

They were silent as they walked you back to the cave, unsure what to make of it. They were shell shocked; creatures that they thought only existed in movies were real…?

Even more so, they were surprised at how unfazed you seemed. It made them wonder how long you had been doing this for. They didn’t recognise you, and you had refused to give them a name. Jason was going to ask Tim to run a search on the database later, though he wasn’t even sure if he would find anything. 

Bruce wasn’t sure what to make of it. When the two vigilantes brought you into the cave after introducing themselves and explaining their work, Bruce was hesitant. He thought that this was some kind of joke. A prank by his two sons. You were adamant however, and showed him pictures on your cell and research papers online. 

When you turned your cell back on, you were bombarded with dozens of miscalls and twice as many unread texts from both of your brothers and anyone else who they decided to contact about your disappearance. Shitttttt

Just as you were about to speak, a loud clatter sounded from across the batcave. All of the vigilantes in the room stood to attention and you reached for the gun holstered in your waistband. But as soon as you did so, you came face to face with eyes you knew very well. 

“Dean?!” You gawped at him. 

“Y/N? Oh thank god.” He pulled you close to him. 

The vigilantes dropped their weapons slightly. “You know them?” Jason raised an eyebrow.

“My brothers.” You nodded. They must have managed to track the bus you got on. 

“Jesus christ, Y/N. What the hell were you thinking?” Sam chided. “You could have gotten seriously hurt.”

“Relax, Sammy. I’m fine. I needed to get away from your bickering for once.”

Dick laughed from across the room “You can say that again.”

“What are you talking about?” Dean frowned. 

“I mean you two are constantly arguing and I’m sick of it. I needed to get out on my own for a day or two. I was planning to come back tomorrow morning.”

“And you planned to stay here with these...people?”

“...not exactly.”

“Y/N.” Dean warned. 

“They helped me.” 

“You told them?!” 

“Kind of hard not to when you’re being attacked by a group of blood thirsty vampires.”

“It’s true.” Jason said. “We didn’t believe her at first.”

“Sorry…”

“It’s alright.” Dean said. “We’re sorry it got so far that you felt you had to leave. All that matters is that you’re safe.”

Bruce decided to speak next, his interest peaked by your earlier statements. “So about those vampires…the other things are real too?”

Dean nodded. “Pretty much all of it.”

“Oh god. I have a feeling things are about to get a whole lot more interesting in Gotham.”

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BATFAM TAGS

@aestheticdaisies @hearts4robs @xxrougefangxx @mamapucket @hell-o-kittys @harleycao @batfamsstuff

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SPN TAGS:

@defonotashleyr @aestheticdaisies @xxrougefangxx

@hell-o-kittys @inlovewhithafairytale @harleycao

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[shallowseeker]

If you would like to throw up a little bit with me tonight, here's what Chuck says in 15x17 Unity:

CHUCK: Yes. Think of it. Us starting fresh. Creating something new, something beautiful... peaceful... together. And we can finally forget about all this pain. No baggage. Only balance.

Here's Harper's grief-punched lamentation from 14x06 Optimism:

HARPER: Love, Jack. The best kind. Without baggage or compromise.

Gosh, Chuck really set up Amara to trust Dean and then lose hope, didn't he?

What a cosmic dick!

The truth is: Amara's love was an immature love, a love of childhood, and even a little like Harper Sayles. In her own way, she's struggling with the Idealization of Apple Pie and the Romanticized Notion of the White Picket Fence.

In season 8, when Dean was reeling from total 24/7-360-degree war and the uncomfortable grayness of real-world civilian life, he too became fixated on an unobtainable concept of love (and people) as something that will never let you down.

In season 15, we find Amara dressed in vibrant hues and exploring life. And it's lovely that Amara has gained so much wisdom in her time spent individuating.

She encourages Chuck to see meaning in his creation. She lectures Dean about how "now is always better than then." She laments the loss of the opportunity to get to know Jack.

However, she's not integrated in terms of how she conceptualizes love, and in particular, she speaks of Dean in always-or-never statements.

AMARA: Like I told you when we first met, you and I will always help each other.

On accepting the wholeness of life, we can turn to Buddhist teacher Pema Chödrön, who wrote in her deeply insightful book When Things Fall Apart:

“We think that the point is to pass the test or to overcome the problem, but the truth is that things don’t really get solved. They come together and they fall apart. Then they come together again and fall apart again. It’s just like that. The healing comes from letting there be room for all of this to happen: room for grief, for relief, for misery, for joy.

Amara is a long, long way from the disillusionment necessary to truly see another person as a complex individual. She's a long way from the mature disillusionment-and-choosing of real relationships.

In season 15, it's even more of a contrast than usual, as it's flanked by the disagreement-and-repair spousal dynamic that characterizes Dean-and-Cas. Dean became disillusioned with Cas as early as season 4, when Cas and Uriel attacked Anna and especially so in season 6 during the Angelic Civil War. Cas became disillusioned with Dean as early as Dean giving in to Michael in season 5.

///

Chuck eases Amara into thinking that her love connection is real, in exactly the way she had conceptualizes it:

CHUCK: The Winchesters have gotten to you, huh? Figures-- you and Dean have that whole weird... thing. AMARA (an awed, wondering smile): That wasn't you? Writing? CHUCK: Ugh! Not that part. Gross. Amara gives another, privately pleased little smile.

Then, once the plan he knows is brewing springs into action, he in turn snaps his jaws shut on her. He'd been grooming her for hopelessness and slaughter all along. And so, he consumes her.

AMARA: No, but... but Dean can't hurt me. CHUCK: No, but he can lie to you. He could send you into the meat grinder with a wink and a smile.

He capitalizes on and then leverages her naivete to cannibalize her. He cuts off her development in order to use her as fuel. "She's in here somewhere," is so ominous. It calls to mind how Amara talked about the beings she devoured, not an egalitarian shared mind-space of equals.

CHUCK: Look, I get it. You wanted him to care about you, but humans... they'll break your heart every time.

Chuck thrives on hopelessness.

[lol-jackles]

What is supernatural season episode or scene that you can't watch. From being just bad writing, acting etc. Or it just annoys

Wasting season 10 mid-season finale on introducing Claire Sue Novak of all people, holy shit 9 years later I'm still mad! First it was the Biggest Misleading Promo of ALL TIME FU SPN PROMO INTERN!!!!  They knew nobody was asking for Claire Sue so they baited us with Dean+Mark of Cain=BadAss mid-season finale and haha you fool it was actually all about the character you never asked for. A Thousand Flipping Birdies to You SPN! And then they keep bringing her back, she was the horror show monster that just won't stay dead. Then in an idea that is only sightly worse than the prequel-turned-sequel The Winchesters, they tried to inorganically create a spinoff for her just so Jeremy Carver can get his residuals.

That episode had it all: bad writing, bad acting, bad execution. Remember how I said good acting comes from the authentic self? Claire was supposed to be a street hardened edgy teen but instead she came off looking like a Mean Girl Regina-wannabe throwing a failed tantrum because her phone was taken away.  That's because Kathyrn Newton came from a family of old money and used her lived experience instead of her authentic emotion. She's gotten better at the acting craft and I liked some of her characters in her non-SPN projects, but she's not being casted in characters that require depths.

Also, whoever thought it was a swell idea for Claire Sue to have side braids should be shot.

[destielfandomlore]

What happened with destiel and was it queerbaiting, queercoding, or both, and why? Also, why are we like this now, several YEARS after the finale?

Hi everyone. This blog is meant to be an archive to collect data to attempt to answer those extremely important questions and then work toward coming up with some sort of viable explanation of events for the past sixteen seventeen years. Basically, we’re trying to figure out intent on destiel and its impact on fandom.

Additional research questions we are considering:

1. Who are the players involved and what were/are their views? 

This includes the main cast, other cast, writers, crew, directors, network, general/casual audience/outsiders, con organizers, and fandom.

2. What happened in the narrative? 

This is examining the source material of the show itself to show evidence (or not) of the destiel subplot, including deleted scenes, cut or changed lines, etc.

It’s helpful to mentally break up the narrative into: s4-7 (early seasons), s8-11 (mid seasons), s12-14 (late seasons minus last season), s15, and spnwin.

3. What happened outside the show itself?

This is documenting the events and comments made surrounding the narrative and hopefully being able to come up with a comprehensive timeline of events.

When did destiel stop being a bit and start being written romantically (if it did)?

We’re also working on establishing what happened on Nov 5th and the resulting fallout since then, including destiel-related spn s16 content (referring to 2020-present, not a revival).

4. Why did things happen the way they did?

What was the point of all of this? Was destiel included in and outside of the narrative as queerbaiting or queercoding (+censorship/gaslighting by TPTB) or both?

Did the creatives involved (writers, actors, crew, directors, etc) tell the story of destiel intentionally, or was all of this an accident/coincidence and/or fanon?

What were the real world social contexts that influenced all of the above events? This is considering the impact on destiel of LGBTQ+ history in the US, toxic masculinity, social/political attitudes and differences across the country, role of internet access for fandom, etc. that may help explain what happened.

5. What is the impact of destiel on fandom, tv shows, etc. going forward?

I guess this is something we'll have to wait to find out 🤷🏻‍♀️

So that's that. As always, feel free to send an ask/submission or @ us, and if you want to help us with the chaos, you are more than welcome to reach out via DM to one of the admins!! 💙💚

(Edit 6/30/24: Right now we are good on admins but ofc you can contribute in other ways!!)

[ardentpoop]

i’ve tried watching spn on two separate occasions to no avail but today i am determined to start again with third time’s a charm. i know it drops off in quality but in your opinion, is it worth watching all 14 seasons or is there a good finale to stop at?

p.s. i already know i will be a sam girl until the end so any coping methods to deal with dean’s annoying ass would be appreciated. i know it’ll get to a point where i hate him

how do I keep converting people like this I’m not sure if I like it 😭😭😭😭😭

1) there are actually 15 seasons in total, not 14. sorry to have to tell you this.

2) I always wonder how ppl are convinced before they start watching which character they will prefer…. I assume in this case it’s bc you’ve seen me post sam scenes that broader fandom wouldn’t touch with a 10-foot pole and fell madly in love with her on the spot. as you should. I don’t have preemptive advice for coping with dean I’m afraid. he might bother you less than you think he will. if you do make it to the mid-late seasons and you do start hating him come back to me and we can process <3

3) the only good answer to “how much of the show should I watch” is It Is Up To You. personally I had no choice but to watch the whole thing bc sam ensnared me worse than I have ever been ensnared. if it weren’t for her I can promise you I wouldn’t have made it all the way through. the first two seasons are the strongest by all objective measures of quality so if you’re not enjoying them and if you’re not connecting with sam and dean by the end of s2 perhaps the show is just not for you (which is fine!) this is a show that goes through a LOT of ridiculous changes over time and its one constant is samndean so the degree to which you enjoy their early-seasons characterizations is key to whether you will enjoy watching them evolve (or devolve, if that’s how you’re looking at it. even more compelling.) I do recommend trying to make it to at least s4 however bc it features some of the most chilling horror teevee I have ever watched. if you’re looking at sam, of course.

[ladyluscinia]

Ok, @autisticandroids proposed doing Top 3 episodes for each spn season, which sounds fun, so I'm going to start doing that as well as a general season ranking as I go through my rewatch. I just got into S4, so here's my catch-up lists:

Season 1:

1x11 Scarecrow, 1x12 Faith, 1x22 Devil's Trap

As someone who finds S1 pretty mid (if occasionally charmingly mid) at best, there's not many standouts. Some of it's terrible, some just nothing, some fun characters doing mid-to-bad plots, and most is simply solid S1, finding-their-legs fare with scattered great moments. Scarecrow and Faith really pull their weight the best, and Devil's Trap deserves acknowledgement as a solid finale. I'll honorable mention Nightmare, too, since I know I liked it more on first watch before I knew where the psychic kids plot was going (specifically nowhere).

Season 2:

2x01 In My Time of Dying, 2x07 The Usual Suspects, 2x08 Crossroad Blues

This one was harder than S1, both because S2 has a lot more solid episodes, quality-wise, and because it has a couple of "categories" of episode it's doing well. I gave 2x01 the edge over What Is and What Should Never Be as a Dean exploration episode because I do think it's also just a fantastic season premiere. And The Usual Suspects has a stronger monster plot than Night Shifter or Folsom Prison Blues, even though broadly I'm a huge fan of Winchesters vs The Law eps (and Henrikson). My only definite inclusion was Crossroad Blues specifically for how it's right next to Croatoan and they're both aiming to foreshadow the All Hell Breaks Loose demon deal + associated emotions, but Crossroad Blues does it way better.

Season 3:

3x06 Red Sky at Morning, 3x12 Jus in Bello, 3x13 Ghostfacers!

Had to sleep on this one and come back to it. Jus in Bello was the one episode absolutely making Top 3 because it's that good. I'm specifically giving Ghostfacers the slot over Mystery Spot because I enjoy a creative format choice and the Ghostfacers episode was effective, but I will acknowledge that quality-wise it was so close + Mystery Spot is better for plot advancement. And Red Sky at Morning was mostly competing with Dream a Little Dream of Me because I do enjoy the Bobby presence and the Dean vs Dean nightmare, but Red Sky's monster is better and it felt wrong not to have a Bela episode on the list (which this is the best Bela ep).

[walkergirlsposts]

Buck: canonically bisexual, probably a little bit in love with his best friend.

Dean: ??????????

I should've figured that the mid-season finale of 911 would bring out the Hellers. Them trying to compare the two is hilarious since Dean didn't even give a fuck when Cass went to the Empty. He was stuffing his belly full of pie the very next episode.

It's insane. How tf can you compare two different characters from two different shows? There's nothing similar about them. Nothing. SPN is a horror/fantasy show and 9-1-1 is a cheesy firefighter show. Dean doesn't even need a question mark. He's never once been interested in a guy romantically or hinted at it. Buck seems to be a little in love from what I've seen. Not even close. Lol

[lavenderleahy]

i guess not so much a weird ask, but what's your absolutely favorite thing about destiel? when did you start shipping them? like was it from the start or was there a particular moment later on where you went AHHHH.

okay okay okay!!! So it definitely *wasn't* from the start. I was aware of the ship but was not in to fandom culture at all and so I kinda thought shipping was just wishful thinking.

Boy was I wrong.

Starting mid to late season 4, there were many times where I was like, "oh yeah haha, I can see how the writers are playing into the ship/making fun of it." But i was in denial.

By 8x17 goodbye stranger the crypt scene when Dean said, "We need you..." I FULLY expected to him to say, "I love you." Because it was SO CLEAR to me that Dean loved him!!!! I literally yelled at my tv when he said "I need you" instead. But I still didn't ship them. (I was definitely thinking platonic love. Lol)

I think I finally started actively shipping them in or around season 11. I didn't like how they were trying to pair Amara up with Dean, and it seemed pretty clear to me that he didn't love her/wasn't interested in her romantically. But there were also so many clues that he was "pining after someone else" (Mildred, spn 11x11 Into the Mystic) that I think I was forced to reckon with the fact that they were in love. And there was nothing I could do about it.

My favorite thing about destiel is how complex it is.... how many factors had to be in play for them to have romantic tension, to be recognized in the canon, and to have a love confession. Their love had to overcome so many obstacles both in their story and metanalystically (idk if that's a really word). There will literally never be nothing else like it.

P.s. follow @destielfandomlore for more on that last topic?

✨️ Send me weird asks to distract me from bedtime ✨️

[typicalopposite]

*paces the room*

So I just finished season 5!

So MUCH happened I swear going back to look at the episodes synopsis’ for this post I was like… wait that was in this season too?!? I stayed up ALL night TWICE watching this season because I just couldn’t turn it off! It’s crazy that people didn’t like this season (like vehemently didn’t like it at least on Reddit… BUT they say they don’t like s6 because its Buck centric and he “needs to be more of a background character” sooooo clearly I won’t read too into their nonsense)

ANYWAY this season is possibly one of my favorites! From the hackers the gps wrecks and tower scare, the zoo breakout (THE ZOO BREAKOUT OMG… THE ALPACAAAAAAAS! And Buck being scared LOL) to Jeffrey escaping and then Athena’s whole story line following! I was terrified for her and for Harry and ACK!!!!

Maddie’s PPD and leaving arc was so heartbreaking and frustrating at the same time! And I felt so bad for Chim (and Buck) and baby Jee!

OMG the homecoming parade crash and the mixup I was so Heartbroken for them! :(

Claudette… :/ hated her and her ending… but mostly her

Of course Lucifer (spn) shows up as an extremely bad guy but he wants to play dad of the year (ok the guy here at least is thinking of his kid more than himself… but still PARALLELS!)

MICHAEL AND DAVID! I hated to see them go! And that montage had me all teary eyed during one of my all nighters!

Toni’s little love story <3 and the girls from the oil spill! <3<3

Eddie’s panic attacks and leaving the 118 was so sad! But I get it… I also know he will be back because I came from season 7 *shrugs* so it wasn’t too sad, yanno?

I love that everyone still came together for Christmas tho, i was like poor Bobby and Athena </3

Madney reunion… sort of </3 but again…. I know how this ends lol. Also JJ and Kate reunion (criminal minds)

The kiss might be the one thing I truly disliked from the season because it doesn’t really do anything beyond being annoying.

WHY DOES EVERYONE USE BOBBY’S PAST AGAINST HIM WHEN THEY ARE ANGRYYYYYYYYYYYYY :(

Well I have a fear of sauna’s now (and stop signs… and exercising)

The mom that falls saving her daughters had me BAWLING!

Bobby and May’s relationship is everything to me! And ack I knew I didn’t like Jonah

I take back my original assumption of Buck having the worst luck. It’s Chimney. What the hell. Give this man a raise and a vacation… some amazing life insurance and some bubble wrap. How he is alive is beyond me!!

THE LAST EPISODE

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH <3

Toni getting married, and the drama about her missing Hen and Karen’s wedding. Buck’s face when Maddie texts Chim first. Bobby </3 was not ok, but EDDIE CAME THROUGH! And when he poured the whiskey out I was whooop whoooping out loud! THEN THE WEDDING I love Toni so much omg and everyone coming! PLUS no more Taylor :) hahahaha (sorry i just never liked her)

(Omg the maggots in the hair might have too the cake as the worst thing to happen… at least visually… for me)

SEASON SIX HERE I COME! You better be all about Buck like the pissy people on Reddit said you are! And y’all, send me strength for that mid season finale i have seen it dozens of times but this is gonna be different and I have never been so prepared to be unprepared for something in my life! O.o

[transthatmasc]

I’m in the midst of a genuinely deranged SPN rewatch. I originally watched S1-11 in like two months in 2016 right as 11 finished airing. I watched 12 as it came out, and then 13 I binged like a year later but wasn’t totally entranced with. Then, cut to 2023, I decide I’m going to finish, watch 14 and 15 in like a week, and then start watching rewatching 4&5 very slowly with my husband while simultaneously catching up to that point by rewatching 2&3. I don’t rewatch S1 cause I don’t fucking like it. As we’re slowly trudging through 4&5, I’ve caught up to that point and decide I want to rewatch 11 cause I remember it being my favorite season and end up watching 12 too. Finally, we are done with 4&5. Husband stops watching, so I end up continuing on from that point and am now almost through S10, catching me up to the point mid way where I started, S11. I feel like I’m experiencing time like in Arrival (2016) by watching it this way. Would absolutely recommend everyone have the direct split screen comparison of S15 and S8-10. It’s absolutely unhinged. Seeing the purgatory relationship to widower arc to confession scene back to back????? Bro. If you don’t believe in destiel, you had best hope for forgiveness.

[kerryweaverlesbian]

i can't believe you just watched the spn finale. how do you feel

I feel like I am on Rainbow Road the Mariokart level but I'm in the passanger seat and the person driving it is using cheats to go even faster so the colours are just zooming past my head. And happy!!! This television programme. For all its faults. And there are a LOT of faults. It's kept me fucking entertained even when that entertainment is me making my own fun.

Would it be better as a show if the show had a good finale. Yes. Would it be better for ME if the show had a good finale and gave closure and wasn't an absolute clusterfuck that makes no sense and is disrespectful and doesn't provide any closure at all, making it seem like a bad mid-season episode that they're going to bounce back from next season when they re-establish the status quo. No. I'm a nasty little freak I like that it sucks I like that it's horrible and bad I like that we're all trapped here forever.

[dotthings]

S5 cleared out any female characters who are friends or allies for Sam and Dean…then later in the season introduces Jody Mills, who turned into a steady presence on SPN and made it all the way to the end, and she is among my all-time favorite supporting characters. SPN taketh away…SPN also giveth.

The timing of production makes it possible they were looking at the reaction to the death of the Harvelles, which happened in the mid-season finale.

Long run, Jody Mills turned out to be not just a mere band-aid to the issue. She wasn’t introduced, written out, then brought back just to be killed. She became a steady recurring character season after season and eventually got her own backdoor pilot for a spinoff alongside Donna, another female character spn mainstay.

Just to illustrate my point that the show did evolve.

[monstermoviedean]

hi quuen(gn) i know its been like years and its nowhere near the anniversary but i was feeling nostalgic today and was scrolling back through the j2 fallout tag and i saw u post about how u had been theorizing about it before it came to light and i just wanted to say if you ever would like to make an in depth post with all ur thoughts it would personally make my whole entire year. anyways obvi no pressure and i love all ur posting!

anon i'm sorry i took so long to respond!!! i am beyond flattered that this would make your whole entire year so i'm going to try to do it justice but please know that i appreciate you so much 🥹 this was really fun and a much-needed distraction from real life so thank you!!!

okay so the thing i must emphasize is: i don't know shit. i have no evidence. i do not have any insider connection to the fallout. i am wholly pulling stuff out of my ass. but the weird thing is...pulling stuff out of my ass has not always been totally incorrect?? (yes i know how that sounds yes i'm keeping it)

possibly helpful context: i was active on spnblr while seasons 8-10 were airing, drifted away after s10, then returned after 15x18. so i came into it with the 2012 picture of j2 in my mind: best friends 4eva, basically brothers, etc etc. at that point i also didn't know about jared's documented public bad behavior (not a strong enough term but you get what i mean). so when i got a better handle on the 2020 spn landscape it was like oh this is weird.

first off, i did not originate the j2 fallout theory. I don't know who to credit but they're a genius. and anything i say here is likely not an original thought and draws on others' ideas. frankly for a long time i believed in the fallout in the way i believe in the loch ness monster: i think it's fun, it gives me a laugh, and it's ultimately not hurting anyone, so why not? for a brief period in 2020-2021 tumblr had a groups (?) feature that was like a group chat. someone made a j2 fallout theory group (sorry, I don't remember who!), i joined, a couple dozen of us chatted and shared some lighthearted theories. it wasn't that serious iirc, we were just having fun. passing around posts and tagging them with j2 fallout, taking innocuous events and joking that they were rock-solid evidence of a fallout.

the thing is though...the j2 interactions during the period of november 2020 through june 2021 were limited. like, conspicuously so. it was too quiet. and jensen was especially, notably quiet about anything. this is the period where the "sexy silence" came from (my opinion is that the sexy silence continues to this day, but that's just me).

i can't cite sources off the top of my head for this but i'm trying to only use examples that i'm confident happened - but please take it with a grain (or lots) of salt. but here are the important events imo:

mid- to late-2019: that convention where jensen said the finale "didn't sit right" with him and he called kripke about it. kripke helped him come around to it, but he still sounded unsure (imo). i think he said something to the effect of seeing the value in that ending and understanding why it was happening that way, but definitely not the same exuberance others (ie jared) showed for it.

summer/fall 2019: the press run where jensen wore the "if they did but know" gucci jacket and looked visibly checked out during those interviews, which is kind of incredible given what we know about his ability to control his face. i have gifs.

september 2020: finale filmed. jensen immediately turns around, sets up chaos machine, and acquires the rights to spn. within a few weeks iirc.

november 2020: the interview (entertainment weekly?) where jensen was super excited about the confession and talked about coming up with the handprint on the day of ("that'll make somebody scream in their apartment"). the instagram comment on the picture of the handprint jacket thanking the crew for their work. liking two tweets about 15x18 (misha's for sure, and i think berens'?) and nothing. NOTHING. about the finale. no goodbye. no post. not even liking others' posts. just. Nothing. sexy silence era begins.

december 2020: the stacey abrams call. nothing said about the finale. we all start going "oh shit something is very, very weird here." Someone wins the jensen q&a but it either never happens or we never hear about it.

january 2021: little fuzzy on these but i think this is when he got that award and thanked a bunch of people but not jared. he was wearing a bi flannel and in the mountains. and i think this is where "moving to get away from jared" speculation started because he clearly wasn't in texas. i think this was the interview where he made his hair stand on end like a mad scientist and laughed half heartedly when jared said something about working together again.

spring 2021: not much eventful - a couple cons, not much discussion about anything regarding the end of the series. which is still so weird! somewhere in here was jensen getting new roles which were conspicuously Not walker. and he still didn't like anything on twitter. at all. for months his most recent likes were the two 15x18 tweets.

june 2021: everything blows the fuck up!!!!!!!! prior to that we had absolutely no solid evidence that the fallout was real and then all of a sudden it was live on twitter!!!

here is what i think. i think the relationship had been drifting for a while (the s15 gag reel bit where jensen is clearly irritated that jared isn't paying attention comes to mind). and when the finale was pitched and jared was fine with it - or even actively supportive - that was the beginning of the end. known deangirl here but if i had played and loved a character for 15 years and that ending was pitched to me (as a good ending no less!) i would be upset. And i would be more upset if i was the only one who was upset.

my baseless speculation is that jensen was not good with the ending (for extremely obvious reasons) and wanted a different ending, but nobody else supported a different ending. and i do believe that it's possible the ending could have been changed if both jared and jensen pushed back. i got the sense that they rarely pushed back on the writers, but if they made a concerted joint effort they could effect change. and that didn't happen.

jensen had a lot of feelings about this (not making fun of him, i really do sympathize). and jared didn't. and that felt alienating, and then the whole last season happened and covid happened and the confession happened and jared is saying the finale is his favorite episode while jensen is saying he had to fight tooth and nail for dean to die on his feet. can you imagine spending months filming your final season, knowing what it's leading up to, watching jared phone it in because it won't affect him? knowing he didn't have your back at a time when you really needed it?

again. i don't know shit. maybe jared borrowed jensen's impala and crashed it. maybe he pissed in that absurdly expensive pizza oven. maybe he insulted family business beer. who knows. i just think that jensen put up with a lot for a long time, and the finale was the last straw. and he would have been polite and cordial to the very end if jared hadn't had a toddler meltdown live on twitter. (there might also be something interesting in "oh so it's fine if dean dies in canon but if sam isn't in the winchesters it's the end of the world?!")

i hope this was satisfactory anon :) lots of love to you!!!