#Romans 9

[thewordfortheday]

#romans 9

[mybeautifulchristianjourney]

Deliverance from Bondage

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

Our Victory in Christ

26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,

“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. — Romans 8 | New American Standard Bible 1995 (NASB1995) New American Standard Bible®, Copyright © 1960, 1971, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation. All rights reserved. Cross References: Genesis 3:17; Genesis 5:29; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 16:12; 1 Kings 8:57; 2 Chronicles 31:5; Job 37:19; Psalm 139:1; Isaiah 50:8; Jeremiah 12:4; Jeremiah 12:11; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9; Matthew 7:11; Matthew 28:10; Mark 14:36; Mark 16:19; Luke 8:15; Luke 20:36; John 1:12; John 3:16; John 17:22; Acts 3:21; Acts 20:32; Romans 4:18; Romans 5:16; Romans 6:14; Romans 6:21; Romans 6:23; Romans 7:5; Romans 7:18; Romans 8:23; Romans 9:23-24; Romans 11:29; 1 Corinthians 9:27; 2 Corinthians 1:5; 2 Corinthians 4:17; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 5:17; Galatians 5:19; Colossians 2:18; Colossians 3:5; Philippians 3:10; James 4:4; 1 John 2:1

Commentary on Romans 8 by Matthew Henry

Key Passages in Romans 8

1. Paul is sorry for the Jews. 7. All of Abraham not of the promise. 18. God's sovereignty. 25. The calling of the Gentiles and rejecting of the Jews, foretold. 32. The cause of their stumbling.

[coffeeman777]

Would you be able to explain Romans 9 to me? I’ve been stuck on it for the past few days because it seems to contradict what I’ve been taught. If God shows mercy on whoever He chooses and hardens the hearts of others, how is hell justified? And do humans truly have free will to believe if He is the one who causes us to believe or not? Do atheists not believe because they were not predestined to believe? I’m sorry if it seems like a really obvious answer, I just genuinely don’t understand.

Heya! Thank you for the question, I'm happy to explain Romans 9. The confusion you're experiencing over this passage is very common, so please don't feel as if this is something super obvious that you just don't get. The Church has been debating this passage and related passages for centuries.

In Romans 9, the Apostle Paul begins by lamenting the state of the ethnic Jews of his day who rejected Messiah. He goes on to teach that true Jews aren't merely the physical descendants of Abraham, but those who have faith like Abraham did. Later, Paul makes it clear that Gentiles have been given the opportunity to be included as "children of Abraham" on the basis of faith.

Paul writes,

"In the words of the Scripture, “I chose to bless Jacob but not Esau.” And God said this before the children were even born, before they had done anything either good or bad. This proves that God was doing what He had decided from the beginning; it was not because of what the children did but because of what God wanted and chose.14 Was God being unfair? Of course not. 15 For God had said to Moses, “If I want to be kind to someone, I will. And I will take pity on anyone I want to.” 16 And so God’s blessings are not given just because someone decides to have them or works hard to get them. They are given because God takes pity on those He wants to. 17 Pharaoh, king of Egypt, was an example of this fact. For God told him He had given him the kingdom of Egypt for the very purpose of displaying the awesome power of God against him, so that all the world would hear about God’s glorious name. 18 So you see, God is kind to some just because He wants to be, and He makes some refuse to listen. 19 Well then, why does God blame them for not listening? Haven’t they done what he made them do? 20 No, don’t say that. Who are you to criticize God? Should the thing made say to the one who made it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 When a man makes a jar out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar beautiful, to be used for holding flowers, and another to throw garbage into? 22 Does not God have a perfect right to show His fury and power against those who are fit only for destruction, those He has been patient with for all this time? 23-24 And He has a right to take others such as ourselves, who have been made for pouring the riches of His glory into, whether we are Jews or Gentiles, and to be kind to us so that everyone can see how very great His glory is."

Depending on who you're asking, you're going to get different answers. There are two broad schools of thought, those who seek to uphold free will, and those who seek to uphold God's sovereignty. Within each are a multiplicity of views.

The first group will generally take a corporate approach to the text. The passage doesn't teach that God individually selects some for salvation while bypassing others; instead, the passage means to teach that God has selected to save an entire group of people, which are those who freely chose to respond to Him in faith. This group is typically broadly labeled "Arminian," after the 16th century theologian Jacob Arminius.

The second group will generally state the opposite: this passage does, in fact, teach that it is God who chooses who will be saved and who won't be, completely apart from anything the individual does or doesn't do. Free will doesn't play a part. This group is broadly labeled "Reformed," or "Calvinist" after John Calvin, who was a contemporary of Arminius.

So which is it? Are people exercising free will to choose God, or is God unilaterally deciding Himself?

I am a Molinist, after the theologian Louis De Molina, who was also a contemporary of Arminius. My perspective on Romans 9 is a little bit different.

For the most part, I interpret Romans 9 the same way the Calvinists do. I think the passage is meant to teach that God gets to decide individually who is saved and who isn't. But unlike the Calvinists, I also believe in genuine free will and I hold that it plays a part in all this.

So, as a Molinist, I believe the answer to the above question is both.

Let me explain.

Following Molina, I believe there are three broad categories of Biblical texts that teach these truths: 1) God is Sovereign; 2) Humankind has genuine free will; and 3) God genuinely desires all people to be saved. The Bible teaches these three truths, but doesn't explain how all three interlock. Arminians generally uphold the second two truths by explaining away all the passages of Scripture that teach the first truth, and Calvinists generally uphold the first truth while explaining away all the passages that teach the second two.

Molina held that all three categories of Biblical texts must be upheld together without any explaining away. So, Molina came up with what is called the "doctrine of middle knowledge." At the time, all theologians explained God's knowledge by means of "logical moments"; the first moment of God's knowledge being God's knowledge of all necessary truths (like logic and mathematics), and the second moment being God's knowledge of all that He freely chose to create (all things that are true because God declares them to be true, like the actions of people). The first moment was called "natural knowledge," and the second moment was called "free knowledge." In between these two moments of God's knowledge is God's creative decree.

Molina posited a third moment to God's knowledge, and called it "middle" knowledge because it fits in between the other two moments. Molina suggested that this moment includes God's knowledge of all actions/choices of all His free creatures in all sets of possible circumstances; God knows exactly what each free creature would do in any set of circumstances. Molina suggested that this moment should be placed prior to God's creative decree, and that it informs His decisions when creating.

This means that, if Molina is correct, God is able to exercise exhaustive, meticulous Sovereignty over all of creation, while at the same time allowing all people to be genuinely free in a libertarian sense.

Dr. Kirk Macgregor, about Molina's doctrine, writes,

"Molina perceived that middle knowledge was the key to reconciling the three categories of biblical texts. Confronted with his middle knowledge of what every possible individual would freely do in every conceivable set of circumstances, God commits himself, out of his love, to consider for creation only those worlds in which he offers sufficient grace for salvation (i.e., prevenient grace) to each individual. By virtue of the universality of prevenient grace, God provides libertarian freedom to all individuals (thereby satisfying the second biblical category) and expresses his desire for all persons he creates to be saved (thereby satisfying the third biblical category). Among the range of these all-gracious worlds—a range that is infinite—God perceives from his middle knowledge that there is at least one world where each possible individual exists and would freely receive salvation. And God likewise middle-knows that there is at least one world where each possible individual exists and would freely spurn salvation, so being lost. And God likewise middle-knows that there is at least one world where each possible individual does not exist at all. It is here that the genius of Molina’s doctrine of predestination is exposed.

"Basing his thought on Romans 9, Molina proposed that God’s unconditional predestination is accomplished when, in making his providential choice of which world to create, God does not take into consideration any particular individual’s salvation, damnation, or nonexistence. Rather, God simply chooses the world he desires as a sheer act of his sovereignty. Any individual who would freely embrace God’s grace in the world God selects is thus predestined to salvation and so elected by God, even though God could have just as easily selected a world in which that same individual would freely choose to reject God’s grace or a different world in which that same individual would not exist. Any individual who would freely reject God’s grace in the world God selects is reprobated by God, even though God could have just as easily chosen a world in which that same individual would freely choose to embrace God’s grace or a different world in which that same individual would not exist. This choice of world, leading to various individuals’ election, reprobation, or nonexistence, is unconditioned by anything about the individuals but depends solely on the sovereign will of God (thereby satisfying the first biblical category). Hence Molina claimed we may finally understand why Paul insisted that, in predestination, there is no injustice with God (Romans 9:14, 19-20). God cannot be gainsaid for electing some people and reprobating others, since all worlds from which he is selecting are equally good by virtue of each person therein receiving prevenient grace."

I hope this makes sense to you. The answer is that humans really are free, and so really are responsible for their own choices; people choose to be atheists, people choose to believe in Jesus, and no person goes to Hell who couldn't have made different choices. And at the same time, God is completely Sovereign over all things, including the flow of history from eternity past to eternity future.

I realize this is dense material, so if you have any follow up questions, please feel free to ask. I'm always happy to answer!

Be blessed!

[just-bible-musings]

Being a Christian isn't what you think it is. It's not about being "good." It's about being what God made you to be.

God created all of us in His image (Genesis 1:27). Since He made us, He's the one who knows what He made us to do, and if we try to do anything else, we'll just break ourselves.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Romans 9:20-21

Ok, so, "pottery" might be a little archaic, so I'll use another example:

If you want to make a lasagna, what kind of container would you use? Would you layer all the ingredients in a microwave bowl and stick it in the oven? Of course not! (And, if you've ever thought of trying it, take this as your warning: don't do it. You'll ruin the lasagna, the bowl, and probably the oven. And you'll never get the smell of melted plastic out of the house.) No, for a regular oven, you would use a glass or metal baking dish.

But let's say you wanted to make a microwave lasagna. Does microwave lasagna come in a metal pan? Nope! Cuz if you try to nuke metal, you'll blow up the microwave. Microwaveable dinners usually come in either cardboard or a very sturdy plastic that can take the heat of a microwave (I still don't recommend putting the plastic ones in the oven, tho).

Every person is different, and we react differently in different situations. Some situations make you melt like plastic, some make you blow up like nuked metal, and sometimes you're not a baking dish at all, you're a pizza pan and you can't hold very much at all.

I think that living a Christian life isn't about "being good." It's about being what God made us to be. Now, that being said, "good" is exactly what God did make us to be. HOWEVER, we cannot be "good" on our own. And this is what trips people up, because we want to think that we can figure out "good" on our own. And we can't. We can't see the future. We can't see into people's hearts. We can't know in advance whether our actions will help or hurt. Only God does.

I feel like I can't stress this enough: "sin" is not just "doing bad things." It's rejecting God, pushing Him away, and saying, "nope, I'm gonna figure this out on my own." Accepting Jesus is not about saying, "oh, I'm bad, so please make me good" (even though that's what most of us probably said when we first did accept Him). As you grow in Christ, you come to realize that accepting Jesus was about turning your life over to Him and letting Him turn you into the person you were supposed to be all along, whether you're made to be in the oven or the microwave, or whether you're made to make lasagna or pizza or brownies or whatever.

It's not about being "good"! It's about being who you are meant to be!

[quotesfromscripture]

You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"

Romans 9:19-20 ESV (2016)

[superbdonutpoetry]

Who is the "Them" and "All" Spoken of Here?

Romans 11:32 – Authorised Version For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. The Jews. Israel as a nation diminished. Romans 11:12 – Authorised Version Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? Who are the “all” mentioned here? Galatians 3:22 – Authorised Version…

[biblebloodhound]

Who's In Charge? (Romans 9:6-13)

Attempting to control others is not our job – never was, isn’t now, and never will be – that’s God’s business. 

I am not saying that the promise of God has failed; for not all the people of Israel are the people of God. Nor are all of Abraham’s descendants the children of God. God said to Abraham, “It is through Isaac that you will have the descendants I promised you.” This means that the children born in the usual way are not the children of God; instead, the children born as a result of God’s promise are…

[brianchilton]

S6E21 A Corporate View of Romans 9

By: Dr. Brian Chilton and Curtis Evelo | March 2, 2023 S6E21 A Corporate View of Romans 9. As the soteriology series winds down, Dr. Brian Chilton and Curtis Evelo take time to examine one of the more controversial passages of Scripture in the Bible: Romans chapter 9. Brian and Curtis argue that Romans 9 teaches a corporate view of election when properly understood within the context of chapters…

[s-o-a-p-ing]

ROMANS S.O.A.P. ~ CHAPTER 9

Wednesday, 2/1/23

SCRIPTURE:

For God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”  ~ Romans 9:15

OBSERVATION:

Mercy and compassion are His choice...

...and He chose me...

APPLICATION:

Live mercifully in His mercy...

Live compassionately in His compassion...

Live thankfully and obediently in gratitude for His choosing me...

PRAYER:

Father God, ruler over everything, You are worthy of eternal praise...once again, I confess to too often taking Your choosing me to receive Your mercy and compassion for granted by seeking my way and sinful nature over Your grace-filled will for my life... I give thanks for Your Holy Spirit's patient guidance constantly leading me and directing me back to You and the saving sacrifice and resurrection of Your Son Jesus... May I remember and live His prayer of not my will but Yours... in His Name, and that the riches of Your glory would shine even brighter in my life...

For Him, for His glory, for His praise, and joyfully for y'all...

g

<))><

[fardell24b]

Church notes - 8th January 2023

8th

Philippians 4:16 - 20

Joel 1:1 - 12 Sin does matter The Gospel message - Our sin has been dealt with. 1:4

God is at work in the prosperous and difficult times.

Sin does matter. It matters to God and He will act in judgement against His people if they don't return to Him.

Repentance Changing our attitudes and actions to agree with God.

'In the prevailing moral twilight of the world and the prevailing spiritual apathy of the Church, is there not a divine summons to a deep repentance on our part? We can easily forget the reason for our existence and settle down to become a cozy club for the saints.' Darcy Tepin.

Joel 2:25 - 32 Sin will be judged. Only God's forgiveness saves us.

Sin does matter and God will ract in calling to repentance or in judgement.

Judgement

Repentance calls us back. To God To Repentance.

God wants to restore us and bless us.

Romans 9:10 Jeremiah 31:33, 34

[samijey]

Friday Night SmackDown - 18/10/2024

[thepopoptic]

[annymation]

They didn’t include this scene in the anime…

[oplishin]

"It's not yours to take."

[lyrichi]

mc: where were you during 9/11

solomon: banging your mother

mc: no you weren't

solomon: how would you know? you weren't born before 9/11

mc: that's besides the point

[nightmare-foundation]

The fact that NONE of the ppl neo made illusions of would actually blame ruby (except Ironwood I think)

Like. Pyrrha would break seeing an illusion of herself beat down ruby. She KNEW she was going to die during the fall and she'd NEVER blame ruby

Penny would've been FURIOUS at neo for using her against her best friend bc she CHOSE to pass on the maiden powers to winter

Ozpin would've absolutely reassured ruby time and time again that NOTHING is her fault. That she did the best she could. And the fact that his illusions words also applies to how he sees himself... ouch

Even ROMAN wouldn't have blamed ruby! He KNEW he was the bad guy! He knew ruby was just trying to stop him and help people! And frankly he'd be annoyed for ruby taking ANY credit lol

Just. God this episode fucking broke me