#RhymeMasters

[knowledgenook]

Storytelling and Rhyming Classes in Singapore: Ignite your imagination and foster a love for storytelling with Kiya Learning engaging classes. Explore the world of literature, develop storytelling skills, and unleash your creativity through rhyme and rhythm.

[vonsoh]

[prosebushpatch]

Okay so I recently, finally, watched Wish and I have some thoughts. Overall, not as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but still has a lot of fundamental story problems and I've got to get them off of my chest. I'll mostly be focused on Magnifico because I think his motivations and arc largely represent the problem with the overall theme.

Okay so my biggest problem with Magnifico is his motivation. His tragic backstory. How on earth does he go from losing his whole family to thinking, the only way he can prevent that from happening again is to grant wishes? The logic doesn't track. It almost makes sense in his creating a kingdom where he protects everyone and "doesn't even charge rent," but it does not make sense with his wish granting. Having a great need to be control to make sure he doesn't lose anyone ever again can be a compelling motivation for a villain, where we see lines crossed that don't justify the intent, but in the movie, he's too self-absorbed to seem to have any actual care for the people of Rosas.

I think if the motivation was changed to something like Magnifico had once been a bright-eyed, enthusiastic wish granter who blindly believed all wishes were good but learned the hard way that that wasn't true could have been a better fit for the overall goal of the movie. Imagine that he granted a wish for a wicked person who used that wish to hurt others, or if Magnifico granted a wish but that wish ended up ruining the person's life because what they wanted wasn't what they needed (i.e. Remember The Princess and the Frog? Dig a little deeper) and that person could have went after Magnifico and blamed him for their troubles (harkening back to We Don't Talk about Bruno). This would be an understandable tragic backstory for Magnifico, and better explain why he's so careful about the wishes he grants. And, perhaps the reason he keeps the wishes he doesn't want to grant is to keep the people in his kingdom docile. No one will be angry with him for not granting their wishes if he makes them forget them and lose that drive and motivation, which makes more sense than the unexplained hording them like he does in the movie? Why does he keep them in the movie other than admiring the wishes? It doesn't make sense to me.

This would give Asha more of a reason to oppose him, if it's shown how his desire to not get hurt or to inadvertently cause hurt turned into a paranoia where he drains people of wishes to fly or play music that inspires others. And, as a side note, we need to see more of how Rosas is a kingdom of people who lack drive and motivation, where only those younger than 18 have that special part of them that inspires them to chase after a dream (something that Astor Rhymemaster touched on). Because that's the point of wishes, right? That's the point of the entire Disney canon. A dream is a wish your heart makes. That star can only get you so far, it takes hard work and determination. It's wanting something better in life, it's dreaming of leaving behind all you know to chase after a tangible light. It's finding a new dream, it's finding a new wish as you grow and learn about yourself and the world.

I don't think the movie Wish understood what makes wishes so important in Disney stories. You know what wishes do? They ignite change. It's not about getting what you want, it's about finding the courage to chase after something better. Ariel wants to be where the people are, but really she wants to be somewhere where others are willing to understand her and in the end, she finds that and makes amends with her father, who finally is willing to see her for who she is. Rapunzel wants to see the lights, and that desire pushes her to leave a tower she's been trapped in her whole life, learning that the world is not as cruel and cold as her abusive mother told her. Cinderella wants to go to the ball, to dance with people who treat her as a person and not a servant of cinders and ash. That wish is granted by a fairy godmother and gives her a hope that is worth fighting for, a hope that helps her reclaim what is rightfully hers; a glass slipper that fits only her and the love that comes with it.

Wishes inspire change. The movie should have been about that. Magnifico could have been right, that some wishes inspire negative change that can drag down multiple people. The kingdom of Rosas could have been so placid because change is scary. Maybe Magnifico could have convinced people, after taking their wish, that it wasn't worth it. Maybe the wish ceremonies could have changed so it wasn't portrayed as some sort of lottery everyone looks forward to, but Magnifico would grant wishes on the spot if he decided they were good and worthwhile, and he would lock away the wishes that would cause trouble and tribulations. 18 year olds could be enthusiastic to give him their wishes, thinking they were surely good and worth granting, only to forget their wish and be told that their wish would have only brought about their unhappiness, this would have justified a more solemn tone in the kingdom, setting up a world where people are mostly downtrodden, thinking their wishes are bad and pointless and they're better off without them. Imagine Cinderella or Rapunzel being told their wishes weren't good, reinforcing all the things their abusive families tell them, taking away that hope and courage to find something better for themselves.

Here's where the true conflict could come in. Asha could be onto this from the beginning, and her opening song could have been about this concern that the people who didn't get their wishes granted aren't willing to try at all. (Because, after all, why doesn't Sabino play music at all? Having that taken from him would take so much joy and creative expression from his life!) But why does Asha know something is amiss?

Simon.

Imagine that Magnifico has a strict rule not to ever share your wish with another person because then it wouldn't come true. It makes sense with our own superstitions, and then makes it so that no one knows anyone else's wishes. Maybe your best friend changes so drastically after giving up their wish, but you believe, like everyone else, that their wish would have only caused suffering. What can you do about it? Well what if Simon told Asha about his wish? What if Asha knew his wish wasn't dangerous and couldn't imagine a way that it could go wrong? That would give her a reason to doubt Magnifico and put more emphasis on how Simon has lost his drive like all the other adults in the kingdom. And it can also emphasize in the end that sharing your wishes and dreams with others can be a powerful thing. Just the act of sharing your dreams can inspire others to go after their own, and they can give you the encouragement to chase your wish too. Wishes inspire change, love gives you the courage to make it happen.

Imagine if the star boy used to be a human, who wished to help others and lost his humanity to do it. Imagine his wish confirms Magnifico's belief, that wishes cause suffering because star boy lost his tether to earth and is separated from the people he loves. Imagine how he foils Asha who also wants to grant everyone's wishes. Imagine him ensuring she doesn't make the same mistake he did while she gives him a reason to change again, to anchor himself to humanity again because he loves her enough not to leave for forever.

Imagine the movie confirming that, yes, change is scary. Chasing your dreams won't always make things better. You might fail more than you succeed and some wishes cannot coincide with each other, leading to grief and strife. But some wishes are worth it. Sometimes, chasing after something better and failing is worth leaving a worse situation. Sometimes taking that chance is worth it, and, like in all fairy tales, if you are kind and generous and act with love, that will make all the difference in the end.

Also, I know everyone wished for a Magnifico and Amaya evil power couple, but imagine if Magnifico was truly in love with Amaya, as he is in the movie, but that love is eventually his undoing. Like Amaya leaps in front of Asha, and Magnifico stops or redirects his attack because she's the one thing he loves more than himself and that is the weakness that Asha and co can take advantage of. Imagine Amaya keeping Magnifico in the mirror and he gets to dote on her from his imprisonment for forever. I'm just saying. At least 30 sickos like me would be into that. Imagine the depth it would give to the themes of love and change and wishing and how acts of love make all the difference.

Alright, I'll get off my soap box. I just really wish Wish could have been stronger because these fairy tales Disney is famous for matter. They really do. But the movie feels too stale and shallow and too much of a cash grab that knows the outline of a disney musical, but is unable to understand the heart of why they work.

[pinkemo6]

Hey so this is really just a dumb I thought I’d put up. I haven’t even watched Wish tbh but I have been obsessed with this song, only the demo version. But even with it being the best of all the songs, it still has some weird lyrics and lines I felt I wanted to change. I only did this from the simple idea of love songs and stars/space as a central idea. I didn’t change much really, just changed what I thought set it back from being the best. I don’t know if really made it that better but I just put what has been coming to my head while I sang it plus some line I really tried to make sound better, with some help from bingeing Jonah Who Two’s videos on rewriting some of Wish’s songs and listening to his reasonings he gave the lyrics he chose. Also shout out to Astor Rhymemaster cause I watched her video on a wish song too and binged some of her vids

Anyway here’s what I got:

If happiness was a tangible thing

It would be you

If you’d have told me the feeling you'd bring

I’d think it untrue

People search for a wonder like you

All of their lives

You still amaze me after all this time

You pull me in like some kind of wind

Mesmerized by the hold I’m in

Leave you here, I'm not gonna

I gonna

Love you as you are

I, I will protect you at all costs

Keep you safe here in my arms

I, I will protect you at all costs

At all costs

(Wow) What’s pain when I look at you no way

I could explain you even if I tried to

I'll never dream like I used to

If someone tried to hurt you,

I would spark with such compassion

I love you in ways you can’t imagine

Without you's like a famine, I hope

It would be all right to stay right here beside you

And Love you as you are

I, I will protect you at all costs

Keep you safe here in my arms

I, I will protect you at all costs

At all costs

If you’re ever feeling like you're lost

I'll come find you

Light speed jumps, there's no space I won’t fly across

To be right by you

And when the world has left you feeling exhausted

I'll remind you

And love you as you are

I, I will protect you at all costs

Keep you safe here in my arms

I, I will protect you at all costs

At all costs

[medeasfirstborn]

I will never understand how people find epic: the musical listenable

[arcadiiian]

my exact reaction

very sad to say i didnt like epic the musical at all

[crooked-wasteland]

Have you seen Calxiyn Cares Too Much's videos (on YouTube) on Hazbin Hotel's songs & why a lot of them don't work the best?

It's been a bit since I've watched them, but she's apparently got some theatre credits to her name & has made super in depth break downs (sometimes literally syllable by syllable) on why several of the Hazbin songs are clunky & whatnot. If you can't quite put your finger on why a certain part of a song felt off, her videos might help if needed!

I look forward to reading your next break downs on Hazbin/Helluva things, it's always a pleasure to see your posts on my dashboard!

I appreciate you Anon, as I have never heard of this creator before. I have been listening to musical theory through creators like Sideways, Astor Rhymemaster, Jonah Who Two, Charles Cornell, and Maxwell Greene. I also try to intertwine their knowledge of music and musicals into the broader circuit of multi-media technicalities conveyed through creators like Lindsey Ellis and Dan Olsen.

I will definitely look into Calxiyn's videos and I will be referencing most if not all of these creators throughout the essay as well. As I said, I do not have the ethos of being a professional in this field, but I am fascinated by concepts like music theory and perhaps my essay can contribute to a sharing of knowledge and draw attention to the actual professionals who have taught me.

I am always open to recommendations. Please never shy from reaching out.

[usnaavi]

I haven't watched Moana 2, and I'm not planning on doing so, but I have listened to "Can I get a Chee Hoo?" and I didn't think it was that bad, but I guess I was wrong. The music is pretty decent, but the main thing I have a problem with are the lyrics. I can tell that they're trying to mimic Lin-Manuel Miranda's style, but it's not that easy. The rhymes are messy, and the song is just not telling any story. Also many words could be just replaced and it would be so much better (still not on the level of the first Moana). Many sentences do not make any sense, and are just created to be the more interesting rhymes, but it doesn't work. The fact that it's the Rock "singing" it doesn't help as well. I'm not gonna lie, he is just not a good singer, and "Can I get a Chee Hoo?" is not that easy to sing, especially the Chee Hoo part. I watched Astor Rhymemaster's video on that song, and it's a perfect review, I really recommend it, it goes to more details of why the rhymes don't work etc. If you liked the song, that's good, but really don't try to say it's as good as "You're welcome" or even better, I saw people saying it, and I am in shock.

[pickypickypeak]

Astor Rhymemaster is a lyricist youtuber that breaks down why Wish songs are uniquely bad from a production standpoint to a story standpoint. Yes they bash the movie a lot, but at least you can't say they haven't watched the movie and they don't have the expertise to analyze and explain why this stuff was bad

In fact, I specified: I have beef with people who have not seen it and copy-paste hate comments online just to look cool. 8/10 people fall into this category. The other 2 are people who know their job, alright. Btw I still think a person should be free to like a song even if a youtuber/producer said it’s bad?

[mysticdragon3md3]

"This Wish," The Most Awkward "I Want" Song by Astor Rhymemaster

[thinking-through-some-things]

i've only just started this video, but astor rhymemaster does a great job breaking down the actual music and lyrics. just sharing for anyone else interested in seeing someone critique the musical, especially from a more technical perspective. she's a lot more critical, so just know that going in if you're a big fan. personally, i'm finding a lot of her takes really refreshing. it's not a complete rework, since it's just fixing songs as the musical goes, and it doesn't include the ithaca saga. it's worth a listen though.

Curious about your EPIC rework because I was also disappointed by it

like i mentioned in my other post here (before i gave up), this definitely isn't the only possibility; you could focus the musical around something else. for my version, though...

as i said, i would build the musical around the idea of duty vs desire, and tie that into mercy vs ruthlessness. i think it would focus less on odysseus's guilt overall, which seems to be the real focus of the musical, and focus it more in this direction. still plenty of angst, but a little more pointed.

a lot of my changes probably take the musical further away from the odyssey. i'm actually not too concerned about trying to faithfully follow the source material; i think it's more important to actually tell a coherent story, and when you're abridging the material, you need to cut stuff. just be clear that's what you're doing.

(also i'm not going to cover everything i think needs to be fixed. mostly just elements to support my theme.)

i think it's a given that the saga format doesn't work for the final draft of a musical. no shade, it was a really smart way to gradually release the musical. ultimately though, it limits the story because then they were blocked into sticking with a theme, and you end up with too many epic finale songs... but i'll stick with it to help organize here. i'm just not sticking with a "theme". mostly because i'm getting rid of the wisdom saga to better distribute its songs.

unsurprisingly, i've written far too much and it's poorly organized, so this is just act one. i'll reblog with act two.

act one

overall, i would say act one is by far the stronger of the two. i'm probably going to cut at least 30% of the current act two, but act one mostly just needs editing. some songs might need more work, but mostly they still get to stay in the same place. add some spoken dialogue and you've got a pretty decent start.

the troy saga:

most of the troy stuff is fine. i think it helps to set up this idea of ruthlessness, and shows the peacekeeping side of odysseus. could it be stronger? yeah. but i like it setting this whole thing up. i have 2 main changes here.

1) every time odysseus mentions penelope and telemacus, he needs to mention anticlea. the musical has a bad habit of not introducing characters/elements until they're relevant, and i think it suffers for that. including odysseus's mother in the list of people he wants to get home to makes her death more impactful. i was so confused when she showed up the first time; she needs to be in here from the start.

2) to go with my theme, i would do this: the reason odysseus needs to kill the baby is because the baby would grow up to kill him; however, that doesn't necessarily mean ithaca would suffer. zeus can word it really carefully - i don't think that distinction needs to be immediately clear to the audience, but after you know how the story ends you can go back and realize that when you re-listen to it. this doesn't require much tweaking, but it helps to really set up the idea of making decisions for the greater good vs for selfish reasons (maybe he could have raised the kid? and only he would have died in the end? i want the audience to question this!)

moving into the second half of the saga, i think we need to introduce odysseus's men earlier. maybe a scene of him commanding them in troy? since i'm talking about a full musical instead of the current format, this might just be dialogue, not a song. but i think we definitely need a little more of polites before he dies. i don't really like having odysseus start out untrusting and jumpy, which is how he comes across to me in open arms. it doesn't make sense for this to be a lesson he needs to learn now, after being king of ithaca for well over a decade. originally i was just going to cut him, but my fiance persuaded me to let him stay. plus his death to polyphemus is a very brutal turning point.

instead, i would have a song/scene where we set up eurylochus and polites as odysseus's two advisors, two different sides of his leadership. you could rewrite open arms to fit here. polites argues for presuming peace, and eurylochus views things with suspicion and wants to attack first to keep the men safe. this really helps set up mercy vs ruthlessness. it shows odysseus is already a leader who balances peace and action, and it makes polites's death all the more tragic, because he represents the death of odysseus's inclination towards peace.

finally, i find athena's introduction and focus on being ruthless in this and the next saga confusing. she's mad at him for not being less emotional and more ruthless, but i don't see what that has to do with him being a "warrior of the mind". instead, i would make it clear that she thinks he isn't being cautious enough. she's mad because she thinks he isn't being shrewd, not because he's being nice.

athena and eurylochus should be coming from the same place: we need to be overly cautious and strike first, because that's how you stay safe. and rather than having a jumpy odysseus being taught to trust people by his soft bestie, i think he should be a general, exhausted from fighting for 10 years, jumping on the idea of relying on trust so he can relax and not feel so jumpy. his duty is to balance these two ideas, mercy vs ruthlessness, but because he chooses only mercy without remaining vigilant, polites dies and now he only has eurylochus to give him advice, meaning no one else is trying to suggest mercy. (i don't think eurylochus is bad - actually, he clearly prioritizes the crew and is always suggesting whatever is best for them. but often what is best for you isn't the best for those you come across, which is why it's the leader's job to balance those two things - again, the theme i'm going with in this version.)

anyways, athena needs to focus on pushing odysseus to be more suspicious and calculating, not more ruthless. she scolds him at all the same points, but now it actually makes sense. i don't love their flashback, but i don't have suggestions to fix it, so we'll leave it alone for now.

the cyclops saga

not too many notes here. getting to see the crew more gives it a little more weight (the stage production needs a tiny dialogue scene where you get quips and comments from nobodies so they're a little more recognizable when they die! make people even sadder!), but this is a really chilling series. the exposition bits need rewording (and again, a stage production has the benefit of 1) spoken word, and 2) stage directions so you can just show things happening).

odysseus's convo with athena needs work. as is, this doesn't seem like a good place for "what good would killing do when mercy is a skill more of this world could learn to use." this is supposed to be the stance athena takes at the end of the musical, but this particular act of mercy seems to lead to the death of most of his men in the very next act - which really makes it weird that athena apparently agrees with that sentiment.

i don't hate everything about this line, especially if we actually see athena ruminating over the line over the next 10 years. but it needs to be clear that it is not mercy but pride that leads to the death of his men. or, if we want to make it about mercy instead of pride, it shouldn't be as the sort of threatening brag that it currently is; instead, frame it as "even now, when we've beaten you, we're still choosing to let you live. because i, odysseus, king of ithaca, have chosen to show you mercy." obviously yes it's still his pride, but then when everyone blames his "mercy" for getting his men killed it makes more sense.

(coming back to really hone in on the idea that mercy isn't the problem here - maybe eurylochus notices something is off before polyphemus starts singing, tries to point it out, and gets brushed off as being too suspicious and bloodthirsty? yet again, i find the musical's stance on mercy confusing. is it good? they seem to want it to be - that's definitely what open arms implies, especially since it gets repeated so often. except the musical stresses that mercy is *why* everything went south here, and it rarely actually shows mercy working. it's confusing. i think this whole thing should feel more like odysseus was reckless, the only thing athena calls him that actually makes sense, and that's why this didn't work. the characters don't need to say it directly, but the musical needs to better frame it that way.)

(an aside, but they still grab sheep on their way out? obviously they're still starving but like. i'm side-eyeing the way everyone (in the musical) acts like he was so "merciful" for leaving polyphemus alive, but even after he learns the sheep are polyphemus's friends and their deaths are what drive him to violence, he still makes a point of stealing and killing them... this isn't a serious criticism i'm just poking fun at it. but hypocritical much?)

athena's anger in my goodbye makes no sense to me - not that she's not justified, but that her reasons make no sense. she calls him "sentimental" and "soft", but that's absolutely not the problem here. she should yell at him for being prideful and cocky. accuse him of sparing polyphemus just to feed his own ego, or of being short-sighted - she mentioned the danger of leaving him alive in the last song, why not bring that up again? why doesn't she scold him for foolishly giving up his name? it's really weird that she keeps harping on the idea that he's "emotional".

odysseus's retort is good, but also a bunch of people just died so it's weird that he's so confident about how right he is. "my friend is dead, our foe is blind. the blood we shed, it never dries" from the last song, and "unlike you, every time someone dies I'm left to deal with the strain" in my goodbye are really good lines. more of his position needs to come from his exhaustion, because odysseus is smart. he's a brilliant general. this does a better job of explaining why he's making so many mistakes early on, and why he's pushing back against athena so hard despite the fact that he just fucked up real bad. he was wrong. he should have acted faster like she warned him to. but making him a man, exhausted from a decade of fighting, desperately trying to grant mercy where he can? his pushback makes more sense.

also, him jabbing at her for wanting "to be known" and being alone? really weird. the musical frames athena as this loser whose only friend was odysseus. i don't get it. especially when you're calling her a goddess who doesn't understand feelings right before that? which is she, a powerful goddess or a lonely girl? stick with him accusing her of not understanding human emotions and interactions. it still gives her a reason to stick around - she can be offended by the insinuation that there's something she doesn't understand, and it gives her a reason to dwell on his comments and eventually change.

the ocean saga

eurylochus needs to call odysseus out; if he'd listened to him, if they'd acted faster against polyphemus, they might not have lost those men, including polites. obviously that might not be true, but it feels like that's what his position should be. it's really weird that they're nervous about the wind god because "your luck might run out" rather than "you did just make a bad call that got people killed". especially when odysseus says "i took 600 men to war and not one of them died there." sure, not there, but you just lost a couple to a cyclops. this more deliberate questioning makes the sidebar with "i can't have you planting seeds of doubt" a little more serious. it's not just "what if you're not lucky," but also "what if you're not as sharp? what if you're making mistakes and bad calls?" the luck thing works for the rest of the crew, but eurylochus's role in this musical is to question odysseus and challenge him as a leader, to make sure odysseus is doing what will keep the men safe.

eurylochus questioning odysseus more pointedly makes the betrayal in the next song make more sense. we should already have the sense that he's starting to doubt odysseus's judgement. his "luck running out" doesn't really explain why you're doubting him with the wind bag; but if you think he's hiding things or making bad decisions, suddenly it makes a lot more sense. i think the implication in the show is that it's just curiosity, and we don't even hear eurylochus asking about it. now, if we have already established eurylochus is already questioning odysseus's judgement, it's a little less weird when we learn he's the one who opened it.

again, we need a mention of anticlea, and she should sing with penelope and telemacus.

honestly? basic take here but i like ruthlessness. i'm fine with not changing my theme to use a better word because this one is a banger. and the one animatic with him as a creepy horse? more horse poseidon imagery, please.

i think poseidon needs to call out specifically how hypocritical odysseus is more. lean into that "false righteousness". the problem is that he isn't being "nice" or "merciful", at least not in those moments, not in how he's currently behaving. most of this interpretation is already there; honestly, just changing the delivery of some of the lines would go a long way. "you are far too nice" needs to have the last word almost spat out - poseidon doesn't actually think odysseus is nice; nice is just a word odysseus is hiding behind to justify his actions. i'm sure it could use more work, but at a glance i really like this one.

it goes without saying that the ending sucks ass though.

i can't imagine anyone thinks that was a good ending. idk how to fix it because the current one is so bad it's hard to think of any way to have something good there. you just can't have the jaunty "open this bag" music in there at all. i know they like to mix in motifs and call back to other songs, but it fucking kills all the momentum in what is otherwise a very dramatic song - and we need to be able to take this song seriously, because it's what the entire rest of the musical is based on. i'm open to a completely different ending, but if you want it to stay relatively close to the current staging: poseidon and odysseus stare each other down. poseidon asks "any last words?" and you think odysseus is about to say something dramatic and instead... he yells "eurylochus!" poseidon is confused, but eurylochus responds with "captain!" and, understanding what he's asking for, throws odysseus the wind bag (he helped odysseus close it, so maybe he got it then, or at some other point, idk). and then odysseus opens the bag in poseidon's face. then everything poseidon does is the same, the effect is the same, you just don't get the musical equivalent of a wet pool noodle slapped across your face.

the circe saga

first! an addition! the musical wants athena to be a foil to odysseus, but they do such a poor job of exploring her character or logic at all, it just doesn't work. her character revolves way too much around odysseus. she says goodbye, and then we see her 4 sagas later (half the musical) where, apparently, she's decided odysseus was right because... maybe if she'd agreed with him they would still be friends. and then she defends everything he's done... look, i'm getting rid of god games, so i won't go into that now. yeah, odysseus is still what prompts her to change her mind in my version, but he's just the start of that journey. she's going to have other reasons. i want to add in a couple songs throughout the musical, just to show the transition a bit. additionally, they can help show time passing in odysseus's story by breaking it up a bit.

this first song is a small one. it's just telling us what athena is thinking and what she's going to do. it's basically her mopey and angry that odysseus insulted her. but she's a goddess of wisdom and intellect, so she's kind of intrigued - maybe there is something to learn about leading with kindness. i haven't decided how she ends up back in ithaca, but she's decided to investigate this. i know the popular (not academic, more fandom-related) interpretation of greek gods is that they're all stubborn and that's the whole point, but for the sake of this story and the theme (and also the character), i think athena should take the stand that if there is wisdom to be gained, it is her duty to learn it. again, this one is pretty short - a verse of angry, and then she talks herself down, and then she's setting out to investigate - a little bit to learn something new, maybe a little bit to prove odysseus wrong.

the athena song can also go at the end of the circe arc. i was going to put another one in there, but the pacing and time line don't match well, and monster is definitely the finale to act one. i wanted to fit something along the lines of the start of the wisdom saga in here, but i think i'm going to put it at the beginning of act two, so. only one extra song for now.

onto the actual saga: i think it's done pretty well. some of the phrasing is awkwardly fit into songs, but that might just be me, and it's overall not egregious. i will confess that "she had us in just two words" "come inside" "damn" does make me giggle every time like a 12-year-old boy. i didn't mention it in my post on the musical's women because i don't think the text directly addresses it, but there's a definite implication that circe is as harsh as she is to protect her nymphs from sexual assault, which they might have faced before. removing the undertones of that from her relationship with odysseus was the right call - i don't think that's a conversation this musical actually wants to have, and it muddles her justification for how she handles the men.

circe is also gives us someone to compare odysseus's leadership to; she's basically the only other leader of a cohesive group that we see. her harsh policy stands in direct contrast to odysseus's earlier choice to start with unchecked "mercy". in turn, her nymphs are safe. we see her later learn that there are times where you can extend mercy and trust, so she even has character growth. (you could make a very interesting comparison between circe & her nymphs and the sirens, but that's a discussion for outside of the musical, so i'll leave it for now.) i wouldn't be surprised if other people have criticisms, i just haven't been able to find basically any critical discussion of the musical, so.

you could mostly leave this saga alone, but i'm inclined to take my red pen and make some bigger changes. i'm just not sure how to. i really don't like hermes and the flower being inserted here - again, i think there's too much bloat in the musical of "oh here's a thing that's in this specific bit, clearly just because that's what happens in the odyssey, and then we won't talk about it again." hermes does appear in two songs, but actually, does he need to? i'm of the opinion that the musical needs fewer characters so that it can better focus on developing the ones that actually need to be in here. the only problem is that odysseus needs the flower from hermes to explain why he has magic in the next song. okay, so what if no magic is used, and he just uses his wit to convince her? except that's basically what the plot of the next song is. so at this point i've basically gotten rid of two songs and completely changed the third, and that doesn't really work. or need to happen.

i stand by wanting to remove hermes. i think you can just give odysseus some line to eurylochus about having heard about a plant on these islands that makes one immune to being transformed by magic for a time. i don't think it's important - it's literally a small, one-time detail just to explain why circe doesn't immediately turn him into a pig. he doesn't need magic in done for - he can just fight with a sword while circe is slinging spells at him. and then you can still go into there are other ways.

the one change that i think does need to be made is that odysseus needs to spend a year on the island. he needs to be stuck here. it does mean you have to basically cut the song in half, but that just means the second part, where circe decides to help odysseus, needs to be a reprise. i think you have circe trying to seduce odysseus, and then she's shocked when he rejects her. the difference is that he doesn't fully win her over; instead, she decides to give him and the rest of his crew one year. for one year, his remaining crew recovers on the island and rebuild the ship, helping the nymphs with whatever tasks they ask and basically proving "not all men" are terrible. finally, odysseus shows that there's payoff to being a merciful leader! he saves all of his men! as they're finally preparing to leave, penelope shows up, we get the reprise, and she sends them to the underworld. all is well!

the underworld saga

or, all is not well.

this is where i spell out my theme: while a good leader is merciful, mercy takes time. and that extra time can be detrimental to personal goals.

this is why it's important to mention anticlea earlier, and why the crew spends an extra year on circe's island trying to save the rest of the men. taking a year to save his men makes odysseus a good leader, yes, but it might have cost him a chance to see his mother before she died. it doesn't matter when she actually died in the odyssey - what matters is that this is really what makes odysseus question the cost of mercy. this is where he starts to put his own desires over the safety of the crew, because the cost of taking too long is suddenly real - as is the cost of taking time to be merciful.

i actually don't have too much to add. some edits might need to be made to fit with other changes, but overall it's fine.

okay, there's act one! this is definitely long enough, so i'll reblog with act two. suggestions and conversation are welcome; again, my fiance already changed my mind on one part. i haven't actually see any discussion on changes yet, so i'm happy to consider other changes, or for mine to be challenged (by something other than "actually this is perfect").

[vonsoh]

[omegasunslight]

Some powerful minds and talent in this pic! My hip hop different. . . . . #lyricists #hiphophead #streetculture #rhymemasters #emcees #legendsofhiphop #miclords #hiphopartists #bigdaddykane #blackthought #royceda59 #smifnwessun #pharoahmonche #DuckDownRecords #Wealthchambers #Sunsseeds #makerhyminggreatagain #Omegasunslight (at New York, New York) https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx3DjjLA-w4/?igshid=bp0cohwu9or9

[twilightguardian]

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/rwby.62189/page-305#post-10976211

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/rwby.62189/page-306#post-10980540

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/rwby.62189/page-318#post-11065385

Definition: shit

With the Farms still struggling only one of those links actually works lol

And it's to a post by Mollie Rhymemaster, or whatever she's going by these days. Yes, the crazy bitch who went on an absolute rage bend when she got kicked out of the Sketchy Huntsman for being racist. Because of course she'll never tell anyone on the Farms the real reason why she got kicked, so she'll say it was over the onsen scene. Which, yeah, tangentially it was. But I saw screenshots where she was being racist about it because she wasn't getting her way and refusing to understand why anyone would want the scene kept in and speaking over a Japanese member of the SH about it who offered their perspective.

She's a vindictive little weasel with anger issues and is abusive to anyone who doesn't lick her boots. She's also incredibly ableist, treating myself and at least one other autistic individual in the Tundra like garbage and writing off our social issues due to autism as just something you can 'learn to get over'. Yes, because as we all know you can just 'learn' to get over a neurological differences. Once we've 'learned' the trick to being normal everything is perfectly okay! It's perfectly acceptable in her eyes to cut down someone who looks up to her with harsh words and insults because she cannot stand the fact that he's neuroatypical.

It's totally not unhinged at all to go screaming at someone, saying they're abusive because they didn't agree with all the criticism given on their written work and wanted a discussion and clarification over it. Because that's my experience with her. In her mind you have to shut the fuck up and not question when the Great Mollie or Mollie Friend gives you criticism and how dare you question Her great wisdom. She's perfect and knows everything and you best listen to her or else she'll do everything she can to slander you. After all, notice how she cuts off screenshots she takes. Almost as if anything that might be said below might contradict what she says or something. Who knows. But I wouldn't trust this woman half as far as I could throw her.

She left the Tundra saying she stayed in the server purely to gather dirt on everyone in it in case she needed it. When left claimed she wished the project success and yet talks constantly about why it will fail and blah blah. Salty because she was kicked off a project she begged to volunteer for and then got angry volunteers don't get paid.

That one. Her. Totally someone you can trust. For sure.

She was also kicked out of @sytokun's project as well and he can also speak to her behaviour if he so wishes.

[elitearcanist]

Leaked card names from upcoming MTG products:

Godzilla, Destroyer of Cities

Batman, Dark Knight

Shaq, Martial Arts Master

Aaron Carter, Rhymemaster

Abraham Lincoln, Eternal President

Optimus Prime, Autobot Leader

Scruff McGruff, Crimefighter

Jackie Chan, Master of Martial Arts

Indiana Jones, Seasoned Explorer

Chuck Norris, Heaven Sent

Gandalf the Grey

Gandalf the White

Monty Python, Comedians of the Surreal

Black Knight (Reprint)

Benito Mussolini, Arisen Dictator

The Blue Meanie

Curtis, The Cowboy

Jambi, The Genie

Robocop, Automated Officer

T-800, Returned

Kirk, Starfleet Captain

Darth Vader, Sith Lord

Lo-Pan, Sorcerer

Superman, The Last Kryptonian

Bill and Ted, Travelers in Space and Time

Spock, Starfleet Science Officer

Doctor Octopus, Multilimbed Mad Scientist

Hulk Hogan, America’s Champion

Mr. Rogers, The Last Survivor

[winesvein]

When did you start writing?

Uhhh, when I was like.. 6? Call me Rhymemaster Flex.