#Reyne Tarbeck rebellion

[stannis-the-freaking-mannis]

an oc, darlessa reyne 🎀🎀

[racefortheironthrone]

In your opinion, how do you think Tywin should have handled the Rayne-Tarbeck Rebellion?

I think the broad thrust of Tywin's strategy - build up a private army of Ninepenny King veterans, essentially lead a coup against his father who had become an active source of social disorder, and then force a military confrontation against the Reynes and Tarbecks - wasn't actually that bad given the scale of the political/military problems that were befalling the Westerlands at the time.

Where Tywin went too far, where he always goes too far, is that he let his emotional insecurities about how the Reynes and Tarbecks had treated his father motivate him into committing deliberate and wanton war crimes. Simply put, there was no reason why he couldn't have slighted Castle Tarbeck while taking Ellyn, Tion, et al. prisoner rather than exterminating the entire bloodline, and done the same with Raynard and Roger Reyne (presumably after some negotiations), given that he'd already crushed House Reyne's army.

As long as he was able and willing to essentially maintain his coup and not let his father back into political power to reverse his actions, immuring his enemies in the bowels of Casterly Rock after completely destroying their military/political power would have sufficed to send the right message to House Lannister's vassals.

[warsofasoiaf]

approximately, how many people did tywin kill in his rains of castamere attack? he killed 2 castles worth of people, would that be ~200 kills?

Tarbeck Hall was specifically not destroyed completely in the actual attack - Tywin destroyed it after the keep was destroyed and the gates were opened. Since they were opened, that meant that there were people in the outside towers that survived, likely castle guard and household staff. So the casualties in Tarbeck Hall were probably limited primarily to House Tarbeck members that died in the keep collapse (and Tywin's later murders, such as the rumor that Amory Lorch threw a young son of House Tarbeck down a well).

Castamere was much larger. Specifically, we have a figure of three hundred for everyone in Castamere, which would include all members of House Reyne, the garrison, the household staff, and any retainers.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[greenbloods]

love how both tywin and ned are genre definingly different from the predecessors from their houses. lannisters have always been the clever house, from lann the clever swindling casterly rock to tyland lannister splitting kings landing's treasury. but tywin's 'low cunning' and use of brutal crushing military force to solve his problems which he employs in the reyne-tarbeck rebellion and the scouring of the riverlands and the red wedding is different from the historical version of house lannister. it's a new brand of lannisterism, tywin's version, and it is this version of lannister legacy that he passes on to his children.

ned on the other hand very much likes to distance himself from the stark features of the wild and the wolf's blood, which other starks like brandon and rickard and cregan and even lyanna are defined by, adopting instead an ethos of duty and honor more like the tully words or his foster father jon arryn. he does this because he thinks that it is this wolf's blood that killed them in the end. just like the lannister kids contend with their father's idea of a good lannister, the starklings contend with their father's idea of a good stark.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

What will Jaime's reaction and development in response to the probable slaughter of Freys and Lannisters ("Red Wedding 2.0") by Lady Stoneheart, and the rebellion of the Riverlands that will likely follow, be? While there are a lot of valonqar theories and theories of how he might survive the encounter with Stoneheart, but for some reason I don't recall any theories on this front. Might there be a realization that his family's, and his, actions in the Riverlands from AGoT forward were wrong?

Generally people who theorize about Red Wedding: Back 2 Tha Hood have this elaborate fantasy about Jaime being tied up and forced to watch. Usually in conjunction with the theory that he's already half mad because he had to kill Brienne, who sacrificed herself for him. I think the latter theory is highly contrary to both plot and character, so I've been rather doubtful of the former theory as well. (As well as it being in Riverrun: no this is not an invite for proponents of that element of the theory to tell me about it, I've seen it all before and nothing but TWOW will move me.) Personally, I think RW2: First Blood could be one of those downbeat refusal-of-catharsis moments GRRM does sometimes, which includes no direct POV, just hearing about the atrocities after the fact. It may be otherwise, but I'm still sure fans will not be remotely as satisfied as they expect to be.

Anyway. Jaime already knows the actions of his family in the Riverlands were wrong. His whole arc from ASOS onwards just rubbed his nose into it over and over and over again. Notably including his encounter with the Bloody Mummers his father brought to Westeros, notably returning to Harrenhal and finding the house of horrors Gregor had turned it into, notably the whole siege of Riverrun where he's hating the Freys, hating every moment he has to reward idiots like his uncle Emmon or a "scheming turncloak bitch" like Sybell Spicer. Just look at his conversation with Hoster Blackwood in ADWD:

"My father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don't claim vengeance." "Their sons do," said Hoster, apologetically. "Not if you kill the sons as well. Ask the Casterlys about that if you doubt me. Ask Lord and Lady Tarbeck, or the Reynes of Castamere. Ask the Prince of Dragonstone." For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks. "Is that why you killed all the Starks?" "Not all," said Jaime. "Lord Eddard's daughters live. One has just been wed. The other…" Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? "…if the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall." "The gods are good," his hostage said, uncertainly. You go on believing that. Jaime let Honor feel his spurs.

This is not a man who is happy with his life and his or his family's actions. Especially considering he took the very first opportunity to abandon it all to help Brienne with her quest.

Now, if you mean, will Red Wedding 2: The Revenge cause Jaime to admit out loud that he and his dad done bad? *pfft* Not a clue in the world. Jaime's going to have a lot going on in TWOW, not in the least however he and Brienne escape (my personal theories including divine Bran intervention; there's a reason why the Brotherhood's cave is full of weirwood roots and has a weirwood throne just like Bloodraven's), and not in the least whatever the hell Cersei gets up to in KL and her probable flight to the Rock. I'm afraid that prejudging Jaime's personality changes that may come from all this is beyond my power, sorry.

________

@windriverdelta replied to your post “What will Jaime's reaction and development in...”:

Yeah, it was the "Now, if you mean, will Red Wedding 2: The Revenge cause Jaime to admit out loud that he and his dad done bad?" question - because for all what he knows and thinks, he's still doing these bad things.

​aha, so you're asking more like, will he stop. And like I said, Jaime's going to be very busy, I think his Riverlands enforcement tour will be well past done by the time he gets out of it all. Mind you, I don't think he's going to ever give up entirely on the Lannister state of mind (Tywin's ability to give people complexes is very hard to shake). But a lot of the Riverlands tour was guilt over being responsible for his father's death (since Jaime freed Tyrion and gave him a reason to kill Tywin), which undoubtely made him extra-Lannistery for a while. And also Jaime was trying to get away and deal with his Cersei issues (by using Ilyn as a rubber duck therapist who beats you up), so a lot of his um, complex actions greatly depend on what Cersei ends up doing and how that makes him feel. (Even if they've "broken up", they'll always be connected.) And however the valonqar plays out, alas...

[atopvisenyashill]

AU where instead of having a dead ladies club we have a dead dudes club: Aerys dies in Summerhal and Rhaella eventually becomes Queen regent for her son. Joanna, Minisa and Lyarra live while their husbands Tywin, Hoster, and Rickard don't. And Cassana survives the shipwreck along with patchface.

me seeing this ask:

anyways, let's first establish how each man dies.

Aerys - like you said, just killing him at Summerhall is easiest.

Tywin - if we kill him during the Reyne/Tarbeck revolt, it butterflies away all the Lannister kids so we'll have it be that something goes horrifically bad during the Defiance of Duskendale and he dies there.

Steffon - Cassana washes up on shore with Patchface in 278.

Hoster - this one's a bit tricky because in order to die before Robert's Rebellion kicks off, something Weird and Tragic has to happen to him during a time period that is more or less chill in the riverlands. He does fight in the War of the Ninepenny Kings but that happens in 260 and Edmure likely isn't born until 267. We could say he dies in the Greyjoy Rebellions, but that's after Robert's Rebellion by a few years. We'll just invent a sickness or accident that kills him, instead of Minisa dying in childbirth lol. if it makes the plot more interesting for him to die during the Greyjoy Rebellions though, tbh, that's probably also fine, but I do think having only one (1) parent at Riverrun is important to how the kids develop.

Rickard - this one is similarly difficult. we could just have him die when he does die, and just say that Lyarra didn't die.

anyways, let's dig into what this changes right off the bat, sort of set the scene here-

Rhaella is like 13-14 when Summerhall happens, and then like 15-16 I think when Jaehaerys II dies, so not only is she a very young Queen, she's likely to remarry. Since she's not even at the age of majority yet (jfc), I think if we assume she's regent, it means she allied with Aerys' friends to oust Jaehaerys II's small council - so Tywin is for sure still Hand, and ruling the entire realm in all but name. I do imagine that not only is Steffon very close at court as well, but Cassana becomes close to Rhaella.

Rhaegar won't be allowed to wait until he's like 21 to marry, they will be looking at marriages when he's like 12-13 and likely intend for him to get married right away at like 15-16 and consummate, because he's the only male heir.

Edmure becomes Lord of Riverrun very young, Minisa as his regent. I think given that Minisa will be regent, Catelyn still has a lot of parentification stuff happening here, but I do think it's more likely she notices the crushes going on between Lysa, Cat, and Petyr.

Robert still becomes Lord of Storm's End - he's 15 when Steffon dies, which is plenty old to take up his seat. However, with his mother still around, Stannis and Renly have a parental influence at least.

alright let's go event by event here:

262 AC: Jaehaerys II dies and little three year old Rhaegar Targaryen is crowned King. Though there is an initial push by Edgar Sloane and Jaehaerys' small council to establish one of their own as Regent and Hand of the King, Queen Rhaella is successful in ousting her father's men in favor of her own - mostly the husbands, brothers, or cousins of her ladies. This includes, of course, the impressive and young Tywin Lannister as Hand, probably Steffon Baratheon, and honestly, it's quite possible here that Lewyn or Loreza's husband is named to the small council as well, given the fact that we know one of Rhaella's ladies was Loreza. Despite being so young, Rhaella is named Regent.

272 AC: A decade with the trio of young Rhaegar, Queen Regent Rhaella, and Hand of the King Tywin has allowed the realm to prosper. Without Aerys pawing at her ladies, Rhaella holds onto several close allies, and neither Tywin nor Joanna spend their days being humiliated at court to curry favor with the king. Rhaella is likely more level headed than Aerys, and isn't overpromising on things and then abandoning her projects soon after. There's likely been a push for her to remarry, if only so Rhaegar's children may have a Valyrian option to marry somewhere down the line? But on the other hand...it might be possible there's some problems at court re: everyone gossiping that if Tywin is the real King, and Rhaella is Queen, are they not...you know....that gets back to Joanna. Not only that, but I can bet there's tensions between Loreza's Dornish faction and Tywin, probably with Steffon in the middle because Tywin is clearly trying to get Rhaegar/Cersei hitched from an early age, Loreza is clearly trying to get Elia/Rhaegar hitched from an early age, and Steffon and Cassana are desperately fucking and having kids in the hopes of having a girl for Rhaegar to marry. We know there was a visit by Rickard during the first ten years, so it's very possible that Lyarra develops a friendship with Rhaella, and that instead of that dumb "i'm going to build another Wall" plan, Rhaella starts encouraging more people to be sent to the Wall.

275 AC: Rhaegar comes of age and takes his position as King without a regent. While I don't doubt he would keep Tywin on, I do think there's going to be tension here - we see this with both Jaehaerys and Aegon III, and even Joffrey really, that the move from child to adult can be a bit rough on the Hand/Regent/King relationship. I think Rhaegar, melancholy as he is, would want to be known as a good king, a kind king, and probably doesn't appreciate Tywin's cruelty. I think it makes a lot of sense that he'd purposefully scorn Tywin specifically for this reason - the same as Alysanne purposefully spurning Rogar's match or the Dragon Twins + Aegon III purposefully spurning the lords for Daenaera. It's about making a statement, it's about power, it's about standing out from the people who are trying to rule through you. I almost think it's likely Rhaegar and Elia still marry here, but it's possible Rhaegar decides to just straight up marry someone who isn't connected at court at all - not a Martell, not a Lannister, but maybe a Hightower or Tyrell. Especially, imo, because of Rhaegar's prophecy obsession - what if he visits Jenny's woods witch on his own? Or what if he visits Oldtown and sees Mad Maid Malora is heavy with magic? Maybe, knowing how often he stays at Summerhall to be an emo fuck, he marries Ashara?

277 AC: The Defiance of Duskendale. I don't know if an 18 year old would be this stupid, it does seem likely that he would just fall into the same trap Aerys did - ie "I want to prove I'm better than my Hand and I'll deal with the issue myself" - but I think Rhaella would be like "absolutely fucking not, you're the fucking KING, and you have no heir/only a baby for an heir, if you don't want Tywin to do it, send someone else then." I think it would be really fun if Rhaella got caught in this trap, Tywin completely botches getting her out and gets himself killed, and Rhaegar just goes "oh fuck that noise" and burns Duskendale to the ground his damn self. It could be an interesting change here that Rhaegar's madness + obsession with the prophecy gets kicked off not by his father's own madness but by the near loss of his mother. Even if Rhaella is mostly fine (she went years being tortured by Aerys, I think she's made of sterner stuff! I can see her being real shaken up for awhile before chilling out), the idea that he could really be The Last Dragon is terrifying. Suddenly, he needs to set this prophecy in motion, he needs to have more dragons, it can't just be himself and his mother.

279 AC: Another blow, just after losing Tywin and nearly losing {his mom? joncon? does he care that much about joncon lmao}, Steffon dies in a storm coming back from the Free Cities. Cassana lives but is quite shaken up by the entire event and retires from court to stay at home with her boys. Another blow happens later in the year, when Loreza dies, and Doran inherits Sunspear.

281 AC: So....now we're at the Tourney of Harrenhal, where shit gets real. Who Rhaegar marries will decide who is on his side here and who has started getting ready for Mad King 2.0 because I do imagine that in the four years since the Duskendale fuck up, a lot of the lords have started whispering. If he marries Elia or Ashara, he still has Dorne on lock. If he marries Malora, that might mean Doran is involved in the Southron Ambitions plot (although then again, he might not be, it's not like anyone thought to involve Doran in the wo5k until way too fucking late anyway). If he risks marrying someone like, completely outside of Westeros, I think something kinda crazy starts cooking at home with every single region having no reason to be loyal to him. Not to mention, if Lyarra is friendly with Rhaella, does he already know Lyanna? Since Hoster and Tywin are both dead here, it probably means Rickard had to reach out to Minisa and and Joanna and I'm really interested in how this goes, politics wise. Is it just Rickard and Minisa (and Jon Arryn) doing Southron Ambitions? Is Cassana getting involved after the loss of Steffon? And what does Rhaegar's small council look like now? Is it packed with Dornishmen and Crownlanders? With Reachers? Does he have some sort of woods witch as his Hand?

SO WHEN RHAEGAR TAKES LYANNA. For one thing, when Brandon gets to KL and starts shouting "COME OUT AND DIE" Rhaella isn't going to respond by burning everyone. I can see her maybe taking them captive because what they're accusing Rhaegar of, when he's the King, is pretty fucking severe but she's not just slaughtering them. She's sending the Kingsguard to go look for him while she holds the Northern faction at KL, and while I do think they'll go and get him, I think Rhaegar is going to say something like "it's fine, she's fine, leave us alone" and the North is gonna get real shitty about this. Brandon might attempt to leave. Lyarra might attempt to find Lyanna herself with a host of Northerners, or maybe with a host of stormlanders, riverlanders, or westermen. The crown has to respond to that, so there's likely to be some skirmishes here. Either Rhaegar is found with Lyanna at the Tower of Joy or Rhaegar finally appears and is like "why is everyone yelling" while everyone demands to know where Lyanna is. If he's cagey, the North and their allies are going to start attacking more boldly. If he says "yeah she's my mistress now, back off, I'm the king" I think everyone is too amped up to give a shit and the North refuses to stand down, which leads to whoever is leading them - Lyarra, maybe Ned - being labelled a traitor to the crown. This is going to domino effect quickly. If he says "yeah she's my wife now, back off, I'm king" he is losing everyone fast as fuck.

Anyways, I kept this kind of general in case you just wanted some like, general outline of what could happen but if you want what EYE think is most interesting, it's a) Rhaella at Duskendale b) Minisa being the one to mastermind Southron Ambitions, although Cassana could be fun as well c) LYARRA STARK REBEL WAR HERO. I think it's likely Rhaegar would try to "she's my mistress/wife" his way out of this but its not fucking happening. all those theories about how "lyanna and rhaegar got valyrian married jon is legitimate" no he's fucking not because no one is going to give a single solitary shit. Bigamy is not allowed in Westeros anymore or Aegon IV would have tried it. if he legitimizes his own kid, it's sort of like, okay great, but he was born a bastard, now Rhaegar is legitimizing his kid just like aegon iv, and everyone is going to see this as a threat. they're going to say he's insane. they're still going to oust him. the question here is - can rhaella, through her friendships with the wives and now leaders of southron ambitions, keep hold long enough so that even if Rhaegar dies, she can get his kid on the throne? Can she make peace with Robert? Or does she have to go on the run, not with her own kids, but with Rhaegar's children?

[goodqueenaly]

If Tywin was to decide, a few years after Joanna's death, to remarry, who and what (in terms of marriage power) do you think he would go for?

The problem is, I can’t work in a scenario which by the author’s own admission would never happen. Tywin did not want to remarry, point blank, despite having plenty of opportunity (certainly in terms of time) to do so. Joanna was, I think, completely irreplaceable in Tywin’s mind as the ideal bride: the kinswoman whose main-line (male) Lannister pedigree identified her as elite among the levels of humanity (by Tywin’s calculus, anyway); the companion of his childhood at Casterly Rock, whom he had loved and had married at least in part for love; the trusted confidante who could not only make him smile and laugh but who had supposedly ruled Tywin personally as much as he had ruled as Hand politically; the mother of his golden twins, especially precious heir Jaime, the products of Tywin’s quest for politico-dynastic domination through Lannister perfection. Tywin, the man who never did anything by half measures - as small-scale as shaving his head when his hair began thinning or as large-scale as drowning every Reyne inside Castamere at the tail end of the Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion - could not simply remarry after a proper period of mourning: he would remain a widower, publicly advertising his permanent status as only husband to the late Jonna.

If this all sounds mighty hypocritical given Tywin’s ruthless insistence on unhappy but diplomatically advantageous marriages for his children, as well as his violent and cruel outrage toward Tyrion and Tysha’s marriage purely for love … well, you’re right! Tywin was not, as much as he might have wanted to appear, a gilded android guided only by (what he saw as) cold logic and political acumen, but a deeply emotional man, driven by (among other things) love, anger, grief, hatred, pride, and jealousy. Tywin, but not his children, could sacrifice any potential political benefits to be had via aristocratic marriage/remarriage because he had felt Joanna’s death so strongly, because he wanted to honor her memory by not remarrying, because he needed to show how much he had loved her. (Which did not, of course, prevent Tywin from using sex workers before and after Joanna died - a reflection, I think, both of the hypocrisy in Tywin’s public perception versus his private life as well as Tywin’s attitude toward sex work specifically and people he considered subhuman more generally.)

Also, and it me so of course I have to say it, Tywin’s refusal to remarry after a beloved wife’s death is a nod to Philip IV in The Accursed Kings. In yet another parallel between Philip IV and Tywin, Druon’s Iron King was married only to Jeanne of Navarre (note the almost identical names of their respective wives), with Druon describing Jeanne as “the only love of [Philip’s] life” and noting that following Jeanne’s death Philip had “never wanted any other woman” and “had looked at none other and would never do so” (nearly identical to what Cersei, incorrectly, thinks about Tywin in the wake of his death).

[l4dy4edd0fc01dh4rt]

Actual Mad Houses and people

House Lannister: Tywin’s war crimes against the Reynes and Cersei being a vengeful lunatic who is obsessed with being “cast down by a younger and more beautiful queen” and is just jealous and bitter on any other woman who comes across her. Her son Joffrey kills anyone who speaks against him and is a violent little shit and bully towards other kids including his brother Tommen and harms animals. They’re all known for their vengeance, brutality and paranoia.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

House Greyjoy: It’s normalized for men to pillage, rape and murder in the Ironborn culture. Their ancestors House Hoare did this for centuries, Dalton Greyjoy was a serial killer and rapist, Euron is the same and his brother Victarion is his violent henchman.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

House Bolton: Historically have flayed their enemies, wore their skins and practiced the “first night” until they were forced to stop, until Roose and then his son Ramsay both became Wardens of the North. Roose is a known rapist, he betrays the Starks and allies himself with the Freys and Lannisters and believes leeches “cure” him. His son Ramsay is a serial killer and a rapist, he tortures and flays his victims or sets his dogs on people. Just very evil and disgusting monsters.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

Mad people-

Lysa Arryn: has a very strange obsession with Petyr Baelish, very jealous and aggressive towards other women including her own sister Catelyn and niece Sansa for having Petyr’s attention, still breastfeeds her son even though he’s a 6 year old and is extremely paranoid and depressed. Murdered her husband Jon just so she could be with Petyr then blamed the Lannisters for it.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

Gregor Clegane: Serial killer and rapist, raped and murdered Elia Martell but for some reason is still allowed to continue living and being free amongst the general public. He committed raids and rapes against the smallfolk too.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

Amory Lorch: The Lannister bannerman who murdered the children of the Tarbeck family in the Tarbeck-Reyne rebellion and stabbed Rhaenys in front of her mother multiple times during Robert’s Rebellion. Killed innocent smallfolk families in a raid on the Riverlands during the War of the Five Kings.

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

*Most of them are violent, paranoid, ruthless, vengeful, perverted, sadistic, traitorous, maniacal, genocidal and arrogant. Some of the most disgusting and despicable people in the books. Full of rapists, serial killers and war criminals.*

Anti-Targs 🤡: “But Targaryen madness!”

[voices-of-the-stars]

HOUSE REYNE OF CASTAMERE

House Reyne has long thought themselves equal to House Lannister. The wealth they hold is nothing to scoff at as they too have gold mines and have made investments in property, as well as by using their family members in marriage to acquire more wealth. Alliances began when Ellyn Reyne married Walderan Tarbeck and these marriage alliances have been continued by Lady Roslyn Reyne, the current head of house. Roslyn has betrothed her children and her nieces tactfully, attempting to use them as chess pieces upon a board in order to shore up support for House Reyne. This has been done in silent, seen only as the Reynes building themselves up in prestige by making marriage alliances with other well known houses.

There will also be a separate ad made of some ideas for members of House Tarbeck, as they are relatives to the Reynes and co-conspirators in plotting the downfall of the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. It should also be noted that the Lannisters of Lannisport, which is where Ronan's dad comes in, are in on the rebellion as well. How each family member, especially those of the younger generation that are being used in marriages, feel in regards to these matches is going to be interesting to see played out.

Although I have a mini-description for each member of House Reyne that could be impactful for the plot involving overthrowing House Lannister of Casterly Rock here, this request will reflect some further feelings on the characters/Ronan's personal relationship with them.

[isefyres-archive]

𝐀 𝐒𝐎𝐍𝐆 𝐎𝐅 𝐈𝐂𝐄 𝐀𝐍𝐃 𝐅𝐈𝐑𝐄 𝐌𝐔𝐒𝐄𝐒

Meredyth Crane known as Merry Crane, is a noblewoman of House Crane. Merry is one of Margaery Tyrell's lady attendants in King's Landing. Merry is part of Lady Margaery's retinue. She often goes hawking with Janna Fossoway and Lady Margaery. Merry is shameless and openly flirtacious with the knights and kingsguard, which leads to Queen Cersei plotting to have the Tyrells fall for false accusations. Canon.

Elmor Tully. Youngest brother to Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure. Elmor was thought to have died in childbirth but had his first breath minutes before being declared. They say because of this, Elmor has a connection with the dead and can feel the aura of things. He was fostered at Raventree before being returned to his brother Edmure. He was taken prisoner after the Red Wedding. Semi-OC.

Artemysia Hotah of Norvos. A Lady informant of Princess Mellario of Norvos, Artemysia's brother is part of the kingsguard in Dorne while her mission there is to inform the Princess of her children and what they are up to. She is also a healer and was the one who saved Princess Myrcella's life. OC.

Ser Terrick Tarbeck. The last of the Tarbecks after the Reyne's Rebellion. Terrick was raised as a "ward" of Casterly Rock and tutored by Tywin Lannister to keep the boy close and manipulate him at ever step. After the death of Ser Arys Oakhart, Terrick is made Princess Myrcella's sworn sword as he travels to Dorne. OC.

Kojja Mo is the daughter of Quhuru Mo, the captain of the Cinnamon Wind. Kojja serves as the translator for the crew of the Cinnamon Wind while Samwell Tarly and Maester Aemon and Gilly travel aboard the ship. Her ship has connections to the Night's Watch. Canon.

Barsena Blackhair is a pit fighter famed in Meereen. Her origin is unknown, but she supports the pit fighting culture of the city. It is said that Barsena has slain every woman she has faced in the fighting pits of Meereen in the last eight years. After being injured by Drogon, Barsena joins the Dothraki as Daenerys' guard and travels to Westeros. Canon.

Haera Banefort. Heir of Banefort, a title in dispute as her father is held captive by the Lannisters. Haera considers her father a traitor and has taken the castle to herself. In retribution, Haera plans to allow the rivermen to take the castle to make their way to Casterly Rock if they ever make they way across the continent. OC.

Ser Brandon Cassel. Nephew of Rodrick Cassel, he was in Essos during business when he found out of the war. Learning his niece, a child, has been named the heir and was taken captive and threatened, Brandon travels back to Westeros and declares for Jon Snow as King in the North when he hears Robb Stark declared him the heir. OC.

[daenerysstormborntargaryen]

"Jaime Lannister sends his regards."

What does this line mean? What are the implications, the message it is trying to send? Is it a better line than the changed one in the show?

These are questions I have been asking myself as of late. Initially, I wanted to explain why I liked the show's version better, but as I thought about what the book's version meant, I started to change my mind

To be honest, the reason why I liked the show's version better for so long was because I thought it was more impactful. By saying "The Lannisters send their regards" rather than just Jaime, it made the Lannisters seem like a unified front, a great House that is not to be fucked with and not just a singular great man. It would send the message that it is not the actions of a singular person but something that will set a precedent for the House as a whole when dealing with, ultimately, people getting in their way.

But then I started thinking about why Tywin would have them say Jaime specifically. I came to two major conclusions:

1) Tywin doesn't care that Jaime is a member of the Kingsguard let alone the Lord Commander, he still wants Jaime to inherit Casterly Rock. Cersei is the Queen, just the thing Tywin wanted her to be, thus he wants to keep her right where she is. Tyrion is the heir of Casterly Rock but Tywin would rather bring the Seven Hells upon Westeros than see Tyrion as the Lord of Casterly Rock. He has always seen Jaime as the heir, his heir. When he made his vows, Tywin was pissed as all hell, at Jaime, at Aerys, at everyone. But then Joffrey set the precedent that members Kingsguard don't have to serve for life with the dismissal of Baristan Selmy, thus opening up the path for Tywin to make his wishes come true.

Several time through the series, we see the song "The Rains of Castamere" used as a threat, a reminder to any and all of what Tywin Lannister is capable of. The ruthless destruction of Houses Reyne and Tarbeck solidifies Tywin's fearsome reputation and I believe the Red Wedding is meant to be Jaime's Castamere. By giving him the responsibility, Tywin is securing Jaime's legacy almost. Already Jaime is well-known for being one of the greatest swordsmen alive, but he needs to be more of a threat, more of a foreboding presence at the back of people's minds than just someone who is pretty handy with a sword. If people believe Jaime capable and willing to do something as horrible as the Red Wedding, what else is he willing to do to protect the realm (or just his family)?

However, similar to Castamere, the Red Wedding is a huge, huge, huge political mistake. It is not a show of power, of skill in battle, of cunning or wit. No, it's a demonstration of brutality. It says to everyone else that the Lannisters will do whatever they want in response to slights, minor or otherwise. The Red Wedding especially does this. Sure, you crushed the Northern rebellion and took out a huge threat to your power, congratulations. Now no one trusts you or respects you or will want to be by your side. They may fall in line out of fear, but fear can only hold people for so long and to such lengths. Tywin os still upset, to his dying day, of the perceived failings of his father. He hated how his bannerman laughed at him, hated how a "whore" wore his mother's jewels and clothing, hated the weakness he saw. But I would argue it is better to be underestimated yet respected than feared yet reviled. When the going gets tough, who will come to Lannister aid after this? After this violation of a sacred law, Guest Right, who would ever want to be on the side of Lannister?

2) This is more of a narrative reason, though I certainly believe Tywin may think similarly, but this line is also a twisting of the knife. Cat let Jaime go and everyone and their mother told her what a horrible idea it was. Now, it's come to bite her in the ass. Had she not released Jaime, I am not entirely sure the Red Wedding would have happened but that is a whole different discussion. Fact of the matter is, she did and now she has to watch her son be murdered in front of her. How could she not blame herself? How could she not blame the Lannisters for being cravens wholly lacking honor? How could she not blame the gods for their cruelty? This line is the cherry on top of the tragedy of the Starks.

While (iirc) Tywin did not know Catelyn was the one who let Jaime go, I believe he thinks he somehow escaped on his own, I do think he would also view it in the same way. As consequence of taking his son, and of letting him slip through their fingers, their lives are forfeit. Yes, when they rebelled their lives were forfeit to begin, but I think Jaime's capture pushed Tywin to such a drastic means of dealing with them.

At his core, Tywin is a petty, vindictive person who values getting his revenge more than actually doing what is best for the Lannister name. True, he may believe this is the best course of action, but that just goes to show what an emotionally-driven, lack of forethought moron Tywin truly is. He is not clever, he is cruel. Do not confuse the two. And, much like every other Lannister, Tywin seems to believe because the Targaryens conquered and kept the peace through fire and blood, he can do whatever violent acts he wishes and history will laud him for it, but he is not a Targaryen, it does not work the same way. Targaryens for centuries were viewed as closer to gods than men, Lannisters never were held in that esteem. All he is doing is dragging the Lannister name through the mud.

One of the things that makes Tywin Lannister notorious in Westeros is told about in the song "The Rains of Castamere," which details how Tywin brought about the end of House Reyne and House Tarbeck, serves several times as a reminder and threat of what Tywin Lannister is capable of ie complete ruthless brutality. It is intended to keep people in line and to keep their noses clean. I believe Tywin wanted to give Jaime a similar reputation.

[racefortheironthrone]

Off of the reyne tarbek stuff, they were riding high for a while and really elevated their position both through politics and being a regional bully, but bit off more they could chew and Tywin destroyed them. Was there a version where they could quit while ahead, retaining their benefits from hoth politics and rogue strong arming the westerlands, and get away with it? What would their best strategy be? What was the point of no return, or were they always doomed whenever Tywin became lord?

I think there are a number of strategies they could have pursued:

they could have pursued a strategy of trying to get the Iron Throne onside for replacing House Lannister with the Reynes by prominently supporting Aegon V's campaigns in the Westerlands, and lobbying in King's Landing to build on things like Roger Reyne's leading role in the War of Ninepenny Kings, and in general show the Reynes to be the more effective keepers of the King's Peace in the Westerlands than Tytos.

they could have tried to get the other lesser houses on board more - make dynastic alliances with other families, bribe people, and in general try to supplant House Lannister by getting in first to "suppress" the bandits and outlaws and robber knights or offering their services as mediators in interhouse disputes before the Lannisters can, thus getting other lesser houses to turn to them as the de-facto Wardens of the West.

as you said, they could have stopped while they were ahead. They had already gained an enormous amount of power and influence by the time that Tytos' Love Day truce took place, or before Walderan Tarbeck rode out on his own to intimidate Tytos and wound up thrown in a dungeon. Or rather than handing the Lannisters a casus belli by kidnapping people or openly declaring rebellion, instead make a big show of demanding their rights as noblemen to trial by combat and paint the Lannisters as extralegal tyrants.

[warsofasoiaf]

"To Tywin, he is the man who single-handedly turned the fortunes around for House Lannister," Not disputing this, since it's absolutely Tywin's perspective, but factually, the Lannisters were never, not on Tytos' worst day, NOT super-rich with massive advantages in power. Also, he "restored" the status by 3 times committing mass murder & evading punishment because the king dies. The expression "born on third base, and acts like he hit a triple" comes to mind. Or am I missing something?

Well, Tytos's weak rule did have problems in the Westerlands. Aegon V is mentioned to have put down rebellions in the Westerlands three times, Quellon Greyjoy sacked Faircastle, and the lords were not paying back their loans to Tytos, openly mocking him instead. So in that sense, there was a diminishment in the authority and prestige of the Lannister name, according to medieval conceptions of ethics.

But even medieval ethics would say that Tywin went too far in the Reynes of Castamere. Even if Roger and Reynard had been executed as traitors to their liege lord, that would have been considered normal, but Tywin had an emotional fixation on ensuring that no one would ever doubt the Lannister capacity for reprisal. By damming Castamere and flooding it, he wanted people to know that if you had defied him, everything you had would be destroyed, including your home and your family, down to the youngest infant. Tywin even goes beyond the normal to the impractical, because Tarbeck Hall and Castamere would be valuable fiefs to distribute to loyal members, perhaps one of his brothers or a new retainer who had served him loyally.

Because if there's one thing that defines Tywin Lannister, it's escalatory brutality to the point of impracticality. He believes he is a perfectly rational man, in control of himself and devoted to advancing his cause, but he is actually ruled by irrationality and fear, and an omnipresent need to have other fear him to give him confidence.

Thanks for the question, Anon.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[ao3feed-tywin]

A Cat of a Different Coat

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/MLkINBA

by mobi_2408

Twenty Seven years since the fall of Houses Reyne and Tarbeck, Tywin Lannister discovers that Root and Stem might not have been a correct assessment and out in the free cities a branch remains. Thalia Reyne, granddaughter of Lord Roger the Red Lion finds herself a Silver Lioness surrounded by a Golden Pride, but, after all, a lion still has claws and hers are long and sharp... and Valyrian Steel which might be more helpful. With enemies within and without, an intractable husband who struggles to accept her loyalty or her affections and a trio of good-children who are, quite frankly, a nightmare, she must carve out a place for herself beside her husband and into the histories of Westeros.

Or, basically, The Great Lion of Casterly Rock marries the Last Lioness of Castamere. How will the future of Westeros change now the Lannister Legacy is secure? How will the events of the War of the Five Kings play out with another Lioness in the mix? And just how terrible would it be to be Cersei's Stepmother?

Words: 2597, Chapters: 1/?, Language: English

Series: Part 1 of The Silver Lioness

Fandoms: A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin, A Song of Ice and Fire & Related Fandoms, Game of Thrones (TV)

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence

Categories: F/F, F/M, M/M, Multi

Characters: Tywin Lannister, Original Female Character(s), Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Kevan Lannister, Genna Lannister, Vylarr the Lannister Guardsman, Bronn (A Song of Ice and Fire), Tyrion Lannister

Relationships: Tywin Lannister/Original Female Character(s), Kevan Lannister/Dorna Swyft, Cersei Lannister/Jaime Lannister, Eventual Tyrion Lannister/Sansa Stark, eventual Jaime Lannister/Brienne of Tarth

Additional Tags: Tywin Lannister Being Tywin Lannister, Bad Parent Tywin Lannister, Canon-Typical Violence, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, There are more Lannisters and I'm not sorry, Older Man/Younger Woman, Dom/sub Undertones, House Lannister (A Song of Ice and Fire), Cersei Lannister Being Cersei Lannister, Jaime Lannister Redemption, Baby Tyrion Lannister, The difficult life of being Cersei's mother in law, Seriously can you imagine what a nightmare that would be, Greyjoy Rebellion, Welcome to 288, Baby Joffrey is about killing kittens and being the worst, The Reynes of Castamere, The last of the Reynes, Aged-Up Character(s), Mostly book accurate ages, Free Cities of Essos (A Song of Ice and Fire)

read it on the AO3 at https://ift.tt/MLkINBA

[damnedance]

REYNA HILL

𝐍𝐀𝐌𝐄: Reyna Hill (later Longclaw)

𝐏𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐎𝐍𝐀𝐋𝐈𝐓𝐘:

ISTJ - ENNEGRAM 5W4 - CHOLERIC. she is a polite, ambitious, adaptable, and trustworthy woman. however, she is also unpredictable, cold, envious, and self-centered. her moral alignment is true neutral. she suffers from abandonment and trust issues, which influence her guarded and secretive nature. despite her cold exterior, she possesses an unwavering will and a sharp mind, making her both a survivor and a manipulator.

𝐇𝐎𝐔𝐒𝐄:

She is a bastard of House Westerling (allegedly), married into the new founded House Longclaw (cadet of House Vikary). However, she is by birth secretly, a bastard of House Reyne.

𝐂𝐎𝐍𝐍𝐄𝐂𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍𝐒:

FATHER: Lord Gawen Westerling (allegedly), Roger Reyne (secretly)

MOTHER: Ambrosia, a handmaid of Lady Westerling (deceased)

HALF-SIBLINGS: The Westerling heirs (allegedly)

SIGNIFICANT OTHER: Raginmund Longclaw (verse dependent)

CHILDREN: Ambrose and Hoster (twins who died at childbirth), Roberta (died at age two of pneumonia), and Gawen (unknown, possibly alive)

𝐑𝐎𝐋𝐄: Handmaid/Food tester/Bedwarmer/Spy

𝐁𝐀𝐂𝐊𝐆𝐑𝐎𝐔𝐍𝐃:

With no living relatives in Westeros and her grandfather traveling around Essos selling wines, little is known about Reyna’s origins when she arrives in King’s Landing to serve Ser Kevan Lannister and his wife. As a bastard from the Crag, Reyna was sent by the Westerlings to serve the Lannisters as a gesture of loyalty, despite the ongoing war after King Robert’s death. Reyna was born from an alleged union between Lord Gawen Westerling and a serving maid named Ambrosia a year before the Reyne-Tarbeck Revolt. Ambrosia, in her youth, traveled across Westeros with her father, Earl the Winemaker, selling wines and other fine drinks. During a stop in Castamere, they prepared for Lady Ellyn Reyne’s nameday festivities. Known for her beauty, Ambrosia caught the eye of many admirers, including Roger Reyne, the Red Lion himself. Ambrosia and Roger began a passionate affair, but rumors of rebellion forced them apart. Ambrosia and her father moved to the Crag to deliver wines to the Westerlings, unaware that she was carrying Roger's child. At her father's insistence, Ambrosia agreed to stay at the Crag, leaving her past with the Lions behind.

Serving wasn’t unfamiliar to Reyna's mother, Ambrosia, but working for Lady Sybell Spicer was particularly grueling. When Ambrosia discovered she was carrying Roger’s child, the workload became unbearable. While Lady Sybell, a noble with lowborn roots, was demanding, Lord Gawen Westerling, Ambrosia's new lover, was simple and indulgent. Missing Roger and his promises, Ambrosia used Gawen to provide her child with a father. Despite Lady Westerling's disapproval, Ambrosia's pregnancy progressed smoothly. She was demoted to a cook, working alongside the stern, half-blind Gwyn. On a rainy morning, Reyna was born amid the brewing Reyne-Tarbeck revolt. Reyna grew up strong and intelligent. Despite Lady Sybell's horror, Lord Gawen acknowledged Reyna as his own when she was two, teaching her archery, reading, and etiquette. By age 10, Reyna helped her mother in the kitchens, though her tasks were minor. Isolated in the Crag, Reyna had little contact with other children, and her mother avoided discussing her bastardy. Instead, Ambrosia focused on molding Reyna into something more than she herself could have been, even if it meant being harsh and manipulative.

Years passed, and on a warm summer night, Ambrosia finally revealed the truth about Reyna’s parentage before taking her last breath. With a few words, Reyna's world shattered—her life had been a lie, and the only father she knew was just a pawn in her mother’s schemes. Though life at the Crag grew unpleasant, Reyna knew revealing the truth would be a mistake. Without her mother’s protection and with Lord Gawen preoccupied, Lady Sybell had free reign over her. Reyna grew into a beauty with long blonde hair and greenish eyes, a blessing and a curse. Her relationship with Lady Sybell was strained and volatile, fueled by mutual resentment. When Lady Sybell became pregnant, Reyna was forced to help, and a small bond formed after Reyna assisted in delivering Lady Sybell’s first son, Reynald. With Lady Sybell’s favor, Reyna’s life improved, and by age 15, a marriage was being arranged. Reyna was promised to a much older knight with a suspicious history of dead wives. Terrified, Reyna’s fate seemed sealed until her suitor was killed in a duel on his way to the Crag. With few options left, Lady Sybell sent Reyna to serve the Lannisters, hoping this gesture of good faith would secure an eventual future alliance for her own daughter. Reyna’s departure was brisk—Lady Sybell gave her an old dress, and Lord Gawen handed her a small purse of coins, telling her to buy something nice once she arrived in King’s Landing.

As an adult, Reyna faithfully served Ser Kevan Lannister and Lady Dorna Swyft, though she avoided Lord Tywin like the Stranger himself. After King Robert's death and the onset of war, she was brought to King’s Landing to serve Tyrion Lannister and keep an eye on him under Ser Kevan's orders. Although no longer in the spring of her youth, some of her beauty remained intact and more than once she heard quips on how she looked much more like a Lannister than the Imp himself. It wasn’t hard for her to find her place in the game of thrones, playing and allowing herself to be played. Reyna did her best to keep her secret hidden from everyone, especially the lions whose claws she was deep tangled into, and keep her head above the water.

After the war, Reyna married Ser Raginmund Longclaw, a legitimized bastard who claimed descent from Lord Reynard Reyne and Lady Lya Vikary. Upon his legitimization, he adopted the name Longclaw and formed a cadet house of House Vikary. Though Raginmund was kind, he was not particularly bright, and Reyna married him primarily for his noble title and his lineage. They settled near the Golden Tooth and had four children, though only one, Gawen, survived infancy.

𝐀𝐒𝐎𝐈𝐀𝐅 𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐄:

In her main asoiaf verse, she worked as a handmaid to Lady Dorna Swyft and later was sent to serve under Tyrion Lannister at the behest of Ser Kevan Lannister, passing informations to him. She keeps her true lineage hidden while avoiding drawing attention.

𝐇𝐎𝐓𝐃 𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐄:

In a hotd AU, her story can be adapted to fit into the earlier Targaryen history, possibly as a handmaid or courtier in service to the Lannisters.

[bloodlessmars]

Asoiaf prompts and crossovers

Of Wicked and Black Hearts

Prompt Synopsis:

Seeing no salvation in the south, the surviving

members of House Reyne looks north to the Starks of

Winterfell in one last attempt at an impossible come

back. However, when a betrothal between the last

daughter of Castamere and Robb Stark is denied

desperate, the red lions settle with the black bastard

of Winterfell. Or what if the Reyne-Tarbeck Revolt

occurred at the same time as Robert's Rebellion, and

what remnants of the defeated and thought to be

exterminated house seeks glory in the North? Caren

Hortensia ISOT. Rated: M - English - Romance, Angst,

Drama - Jon Snow/Caren Hortensia.

The Hedge Mage

Prompt Synopsis:

Robb Stark, the Young Wolf, heir of Winterfell, and

acting Warden of the North, is taken aback when a

man donned all in black swears his sword to his war in

the south. He denies the mysterious man's offer and

plans to execute him on the morrow as a Night's Watch

deserter. It will gain him the respect of his bannermen,

and it is what his lord father would have done.

However, as the execution is about to commence, his

crippled brother, Bran, strides through the crowd with

haste and demands the deserter's release - whom, it

appears has healed his brother the night prior.

Or what if when Rhaegar Targaryen fell on the Trident,

spilling its mighty streams red, Bloodraven takes it

upon himself to secure the legacy of House Targaryen

by spiriting his infant descendant, whom he names

Daemon Snow, from the Tower of Joy before Eddard

Stark has the opportunity to ride east for Dorne. This

results in a terribly different song - one of snow and

ash, conquest and betrayal.