#ROSEGAL

[havatabanca]

[you-just-got-shit-wrecked]

i just. HOW are people still complaining about Rosegate. that was fucking months ago (in campaign and real life!) and the players clearly talked about in out of character and also it was like. one of the most interesting episodes

also side note. STOP REFERRING TO POST-MONASTERY ANNABETH AS JUGTHROP. AFTER THE MONASTERY ARC SHE GOES BY ANNABETH COGFAIL put some respect on my wife's name

[wheelercore]

The Curious Case of The Dead Wheeler Granny

Also known as: I need to make a cohesive post that actually has context so i can add it to the ✨ master post ✨. So basically if you already know, you know. idk.

So... recently have been thinking A Lot about weird "production errors" (tm) and creel home fuckery + wheeler parallels. Its no secret that there are Many references to the creel home in the wheeler home for whatever reason, from the piano to the wedding dress to even the clock chimes (?) close to the the door way of the wheeler home.

However one of the most fascinating Choices was when the main urn that sat on the wheeler mantle place since s1 suddenly changed to a completely different urn during the convergence of the four gates at the climax of s4. What was the reason for this? It's also no secret that ST is riddled with what we can call "intentional" errors in objects, peoples positions, etc etc. But why a seemingly random object that has been sitting in the background of the home for 4 seasons w/o any special attention? And why at the important climax of the season?

Season 1

Season 4- before the climax

Season 4- after the climax

(and this isnt even to mention the fact that the wheeler dining room is covered in rose vases that mimic the OG urn)

If you reference this back to the mantle place in the Creel home... there is something quite interesting:

A few little trinkets, weirdly placed and evenly spread out. There is a little bird (dove?) statue like how the wheelers have two geese statues sitting on their mantle place. Next to that though? A strange looking golden vase. Mind you, this is happened when Virginia is having her "holding up the mirror" moment. As in this mirror is right there reflecting Virginia and this little urn-looking vase trinket and the rose-y wallpaper behind her (which is interesting given that the OG urn has pink roses on it with a framed picture of pink roses next to it).

Put the Virginia relation in your back pocket for now. Lets go up to the stuff in the Creel attic, which are heavily referenced in the wheeler home, in particular the wedding dress:

Where has have we seen a piece of a brides clothing in s4? In Suzie's home, where her sister Tabitha is wearing a wedding veil, and you guess it, a pink floral (roses? Honestly the color scheme is very similar to the creel wallpaper mentioned above) dress:

In which Tabitha pretends to die. She's not really dying. The joke here is that Tabitha's father had thought she was dying though ("it looked genuine"). And oh... is that the edge of a grandfather clock I see right outside the doorway framed right there this scene?

If I was extra weird about it I could also point out that the letter blocks on Tabitha's bracelet kind of spell out (M?)AMA. But its super blurry and I cant get a good shot of it so take this with a grain of salt:

A little sprinkle of Petergate here but Tabitha is a woman who was raised from the dead by Saint Peter:

Which I mean... If we're going to talk about lying about moms dying? The "Nanas got cancer" gag in s3 in which... Hopper lies about Mikes Nana being sick but then goes onto say:

There's nothing wrong with Nana

Mike then proceeds to repeatedly call him a liar. So... nothing's wrong with Nana? Would that explain the weird trend of people specifically lying over the phone about having a sick family member also in s3/s4?

(credit: screenshots from this @/heroesbyler post - unrelated to this theory, I just think its neat)

And if we're talking about lies:

(oh holly girl... wearing that pink + white outfit and that rose shirt lmao)

And of course: Papa lies.

(don't even get me started on how the grandfather clock most likely represents Brenner ("maybe hes a clock maker?" and s4 literally starting with Brenner setting a timer))

But this begs the question... If, by all accounts, nothing is wrong with Nana, so much so it would be like she was raised from the dead, then who's ashes do the Wheeler's have on their mantle place thinking that its their granny?

Could it be, thinking back to the weird trinket on front of the mirror in the Creel home, Virginia's ashes instead? Quick question, where exactly are Virginia and Alice buried? Did Victor get a say in his wife's funeral arrangements?

And if Nana Wheeler's death was a lie designed to conceal a truth and Papa lies... ah who am i kidding it was martin brenner. it was fucking brenner who else would do some weird shit like this. it was him.

Anyways things like this really make me question why exactly the Wheelers are one of two main families in the show. As far as I know they didn't do much in TFS, so hell, why not Patty? Bob? The Sin Claires?

Regardless, I would really like them to be kind and rewind back to whatever is going on here if you know what I mean

[capn-twitchery]

was looking through my screenshots from twitch's sunless sea run and i forgot that they wrote erotica so outlandishly depraved that it rewired this guy's kinks instantly upon reading it

[stranger-chichka]

Hi! I just saw that there is a tedgate... I read a few posts but I'm not sure I get what it means. Ted is really a nickname for Edward? Like, Edward Creel? But wasn't him a kid in 1959? Ted was like 20, right? Now that I think about it, it is interesting that Eddie isn't a teenager but a bit older, like Ted was the year of the massacre. Interesting choice. Hmm

So, what is Ted's connection with the Creels? That the Creel House was just his childhood house and that's it, or the theory is that he is a Creel? And what is his mom's (in the urn, lol) connection to the Henry's family? I'm curious

Hello and thanks for the ask!💌

These connections between the Wheelers and the Creels are crazy and I’m really excited to know is it because of Ted (aka #tedgate and #rosegate, which I don’t have a full picture of, but @boysdontcryboycry and @wheelercore might shed light on this gate more) or because of Karen (aka @aemiron-main’s theory Karen=Henry/Edward’s sister Alice/Virginia from other timeline — the timeline where Henry is called Edward, his sister Alice is called Virginia and his mother Virginia is called Alice).

We don’t know anything specific about Ted yet, however the actor who played him thinks his background could be military-related, which reminded me of Victor.

We know one of Mike’s grandmas had cancer (the UD is spreading like cancer).

I’m sure, after The First Shadow we’ll have some answers on that topic, right now we can only speculate.

[cobaltqueen]

Am i the only one who isnt all that mad at blanco?? Like sure he couldve handled that better but also the audience was SO MAD about like?? K chill

[obviouslyelementary]

This is gonna be my silly little ‘what if Greg and Rose fused’ AU where Greg and Rose fuse. XD I just love them so much, this is their first version when they first fuse and it’s a mess of colors and shapes. I imagine that for a human/gem fusion, the gem would be the most predominant until the two souls settled in a better body for them both. They are just very stocked for fusing XD I love Greg and Rose so much ;-;

[boysdontcryboycry]

something something eddie and ted sharing a name making them foils something something rocky horror picture show "eddie" and how eddie munson is sooo similar to rhps eddie

but how i'm having visions of ted clutching that teddy bear

something something eddie (homosexual) rejecting his teddy bear and rejecting society and conformity (without going too deep into his hypocrisy rn) vs ted (homosexual) clinging to his teddy bear and clinging to society and conformity, something something socioeconomic positions and the munsons being lower working class family (eddie's dad specifically mentioned engaging in criminal activity) vs the wheelers being an upper middle class "good" family

and something something about how this relates to max and mike, being two characters with "m" names that only go by their nicknames. and how max is eddie's next-door neighbor. and mike lives in the same house as ted as his son. gonna have to rewatch s4 cuz i honestly don't remember how eddie and max interacted on-screen if they did at all. oh it's the championship game vs do i get one of those cool shirts slash sarcasm. and i don't need to tell you the glut of mike and ted parallels.

no comment.

[hansdurrer]

As seen from Val Roseg, Switzerland, 22 Augusr 2023

[ladyinrosso]

E COSì CHE SI LANCIANO I FIORI

[wheelercore]

"why does the Wheeler family get so much narrative importance over the Hendersons and the Sinclairs when they don't do anything?"

[hebeandersen]

Forse questo farà di me una boomer inside, ma sinceramente - anche se Amadeus ha detto che era dispiaciuto - io non ci credo alle scuse di Blanco.

Una persona che fa quel macello solo perché "volevo divertirmi e lo spettacolo deve andare avanti" senza curarsi minimamente di fare un danno e non portare rispetto a tutti i lavoratori che hanno contribuito a creare quel palco, non è abbastanza matura da dispiacersi davvero.

Ha 19 anni. È giovane, ma non è un bimbo di sette anni che non ha ancora bene cognizione di quello che fa e poi prova vergogna. Un minimo di crescita emotiva dovrebbe averla avuta.

Per cui scusate, ma le sue scuse mi sembrano solo una paraculata per salvarsi la faccia.

[evadingreallife]

No ma raga che avete capito... in realtà è che vista l'imperdonabile mancanza di materiale trash nella prima serata, Blanco ha preso in mano la situazione, creando lui stesso il trash che voleva vedere nel mondo

[slickdealsnews]

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[wheelercore]

Hey anon!

I just remembered I made that edwardgate trifecta conspiracy shitpost like three months ago ZLSNSKSSNH

This turned out way too long so I'm putting a cut

Mostly the Ted was 20 in 1959 thing was a joke post by yours truly but also I think it's interesting all the Edwards going around here like Edward Munson and the whole "Edward Creel" thing and possibly Edward Wheeler (although Ted also stands for Theodore!). Interesting we never learn Ted's full name- even the Christmas stocking has a 'T' on it although that could be just for Theodore (but again, the show goes out of its way never to tell us what Ted's actually first name is, even on promotional material I've seen it's all just "Ted"). They did a similar thing for Billy and Will with the whole mindflayer possession, and personally I believe name choices are very intentional in ST (eg. Karen = pure and Virginia= pure virgin maid, again Billy and Will and Mike = St. Michael the Arc Angel).

And if the 1938 birth year is correct then it's also a very interesting choice that not only could Eddie and Ted have the same names, but they go out of their way to make Eddie a 20 year old high school senior (when he could have easily just been 18) and 1959 is very specifically the same year Ted himself was 20-21, with all the other adult main cast either being in middle school or high school. And the word "Edward" was written boldly on the st4 inspo board despite Munson being the other character with that name 100% confirmed so there might be something there. Anyways I've rambled way too long about this dksjsksk.

Rosegate (well I used to call it tedgate but I thought that name was a bit too broad because really it could turn out it doesn't involve him at all so ╮⁠(⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)⁠╭). This theory doesn't really involve the Creels as much as @/aemiron-main and @/henrysglock timeline theories unfortunately haha. It's more of a "the Creels where unfortunate casualties of something way more fucked up in that home" which I try to tie to The Shining (and I'm looking into Rose Red next) since it's on the ST4 inspo board and probably has been a huge influence in ST1. It's very possible that they even picked up the bathroom/bathtub imagery from The Shining and that's even the metaphorical basis of the UD being "the bathtub" itself. And again, Holly commenting on it "snowing" which is a huge omen in The Shining to the cycle (whatever that is in ST) repeating.

But also I chose to exclude the Creels more because I found that the similarities between the Wheeler Home and the Creel Home were always things that were intentionally shown to us have been in the Creel Home already before the Creels moved in. So much emphasis is put on the clock (which is associated with the stuff in the attic in the trailer) and the rose door despite it not have much relevance to Henry personally. There's also a lot of interesting things that don't really add up like Victor's "angel" that Henry never explains and is pretty much left up in the air because Nancy is interrupted while asking Victor about it (and there's the interesting tidbit where Mrs Cunningham refers to Chrissy as her "angel" specifically and that's the moment Patrick sees the grandfather clock at Chrissy's funeral).

This angel/demon dichotomy extends to Victor monologuing about a "demon" that has cursed their town while on the attic exploring all the stuff up there including the wheelchair, wedding dress, bed frames, paino, etc etc - again, all the things that are referenced in the Wheeler Home and are stuff stuck up in the attic in the Creel Home as if they belonged to the previous owners.

Also this theory is heavily influenced by Rosemary's Baby which I personally love and have watched seven times so... It's a whole Thing for me slshskshsksbaj. It's a classic horror movie on the horrors of female conformity and how it tricks women into marrying and having kids with men they don't really know and turn out to be "Satan" metaphorically. This manipulative "female" fantasy is symbolized in the movie using roses, which is also a huge symbol associated with mothers in ST (Karen, Billy's mom, Joyce with her rose wallpaper that she spoke to will through, Virginia reflected on front of the creel rose wallpaper). Also Terry's story is so similar to Rosemary's Baby it's crazy.

This dynamic is repeated with Joyce/Lonnie/will&Jonathan, Karen/Ted/wheeler sibs, Billy's mom/Niel/billy, Susan/Niel/Max, Chrissy's parents/Chrissy (roles are reversed with this one), Virginia/Victor/Henry & Alice.

And again the urn... Ough the urn. It initially caught my eye because of the whole "grandma with cancer" gag that got repeated in st3. Then it kinda grew into "wtf why did they change this urn in the st4 climax" "the urn has pink rose designs on it and roses are a repeated motif in this show to represent women unhappy with conformity" and then I feel down the rabbit hole of them intentionally giving Robin the alias "Rose Weaver" to penrhurst and how her Look (namely pink+white+blue color scheme/pearl-like jewelry/specific hairstyles) was the combination of looks replicated with other female characters.

It's a Whole Thing and you can check it out on my Rosegate Masterpost post pinned to the top of my blog that has 100% of this stuff discussed on it lol.

Anyways I'm just little gal obsessed with characters Who Give Me Nothing To Go On Other Than Subtext so my alarm bells went off when David Harbour said that we're going to learn why a character has been acting like they have (Ted never had a POV and Mike losing it in a paralleled fashion in s4) and even Joe Crest said that he's only being "drawn badly" which again fits into the whole no POV thing. And Mike-Ted parallels go nuts and I don't think it's a coincidence that Mike is the only Wheeler sib shown to be able to sense to void (Also they literally end s4 in marching shirts c'mon).

With that and also Karen possibly being paralleled to Lyudmilla Ignatenko from Chernobyl, who spends a good portion of the show even trying to find her husband Karen independance arc hello (and the Karen look alike on front of the missing persons board) and the basic premise of A Wrinkle In Time being that two siblings have to rescue their missing father from The Black Thing which literally is just the mindflayer lmao

At some point Mike Charles allowed himself to be vecna'd "hypnotized" in order to find the exact location, which again we know Mike can sense people in the void and it's specifically brought up in st3, the same season with two keys and two man job

Anyways I know this is crazy as hell but wheeler s5 sweep I believe it!!!!

Anyways as mentioned there's more stuff on myasterpost this is just my rambling like a crazy woman and yelling at clouds.

Anon if you have more questions about this please feel free to send them over to me!!!!

Hi! I just saw that there is a tedgate... I read a few posts but I'm not sure I get what it means. Ted is really a nickname for Edward? Like, Edward Creel? But wasn't him a kid in 1959? Ted was like 20, right? Now that I think about it, it is interesting that Eddie isn't a teenager but a bit older, like Ted was the year of the massacre. Interesting choice. Hmm

So, what is Ted's connection with the Creels? That the Creel House was just his childhood house and that's it, or the theory is that he is a Creel? And what is his mom's (in the urn, lol) connection to the Henry's family? I'm curious

Hello and thanks for the ask!💌

These connections between the Wheelers and the Creels are crazy and I’m really excited to know is it because of Ted (aka #tedgate and #rosegate, which I don’t have a full picture of, but @boysdontcryboycry and @wheelercore might shed light on this gate more) or because of Karen (aka @aemiron-main’s theory Karen=Henry/Edward’s sister Alice/Virginia from other timeline — the timeline where Henry is called Edward, his sister Alice is called Virginia and his mother Virginia is called Alice).

We don’t know anything specific about Ted yet, however the actor who played him thinks his background could be military-related, which reminded me of Victor.

We know one of Mike’s grandmas had cancer (the UD is spreading like cancer).

I’m sure, after The First Shadow we’ll have some answers on that topic, right now we can only speculate.

[uchihaitachi]

Val Roseg