#Possible upopular opinion as well I suppose

[dustydreamsanddirtyscars]

Question. What was your take in the episode where Dean killed himself-with the promise of Sam reviving him? I keep reading where people think Dean was committing suicide with no intentions of coming back. Selfishly (their words, not mine) leaving Sam behind. I see it as yes, he did want to die for the purpose of the hunt but fully intended to be revived. It was only after the little tête-à-tête with Billie that he made the decision to stay. She was the straw that broke the camel. 1 of 2

After everything he’d been through and lost - and yes his brother did as well but let’s face it Sam didn’t have the same relationship or closeness with Cas nor is his default setting stuck on “I’m worthless unless I can save everyone”. And his mom? And Chuck help me, Crowley? Dean was emotionally hanging on by a thread. One more powerful entity showing up pushing him around like a chess piece? I think he was like the lizard over the spit. Stick a fork in him, he was done. Oops I forgot...  And if Dean is guilty of selfishly committing suicide what do they think Sam agreeing to go with Death at the end of Sacrifice was? After he told Dean in the church he wanted to live. I never got an answer for that question from the poster who was so disgusted with Dean for being a coward by committing suicide and not telling Sam why or that that was what his intent was.

Hello dear anon!

I’m sorry it took me days to get back to your ask. Really, life just leaves little free time lately. :/   

I guess you are referring to the episode 13x05 “Advanced Thanatology”, right? Because for a second I thought you may also talk about 11x17 “Red Meat”, which definitely works as a mirroring episode somewhat, but of course that hadn’t featured Mary yet, so...

My take on Dean pushing the needle down and how quick he was to go for the possibility overall absolutely worked as a framework for how fragile Dean’s grip on wanting to live was and how depressed and disillusioned the past events (his whole life really) left him, but I do agree that Dean - even though he wouldn’t have minded to die in the process - did first and foremost use “dying” here as a means to solve the case. If his life would have ended up being collateral damage, but would have worked in saving others however I think Dean would have been okay with that.

I think it is a very difficult, complicated and two-fold moment in which two things can be true at the same time even if on the surface they might cancel one another out. Dean has been battlign depression and lack of self worth his whole life, that he is still standing after everything he’s been through is a miracle, so it is not surprising that a few times over the course of the show we see Dean (and Sam as well) come to his limits. The problem is (and that also showed in this week’s episode again) that the show only brings these aspects up in extreme manner here and there, but don’t include it over more episodes (in this regard S7 imo was golden in terms of characterization with Dean’s depression and drinking, because it was very decidely part of almost every episode in one way or another and it was similar during the MoC arc) so that for some people it feels thinsg come out of nowhere and have no base - especially when the boys are shown to be perfectly okay the next epsiode (that is just inconsistent and lazy writing sadly).

So to come back to your original question and point, I actually think that both was true at the same time:

a) that Dean was okay to die just so it could all be over, because he was at the end of his rope

and

b) that he didn’t think the consequences through but just chose that option in order to work the job, but didn’t consciously “kill himself” there

It may not make sense to anyone, but to me these things aren’t mutually exclusive, especially when topics as heavy as suicide, depression and the likes are concerned - things are never easy and never black and white.

As for the events of 8x23 “Sacrifice” and 9x01 “I Think I’m Going To Like It Here”, the turnaround to that imo played out over S10 and in particular 10x23 “Brother’s Keeper” where Dean wants to go with Death, but is held back by Sam.

I don’t know why this fandom needs to paint one brother’s decision of the same nature - in this case dieing - in a more favorable light than they do with the other. There is no difference. There are just two characters who have been through literally hell and back and they have their struggles they face every day and sometimes they just can’t seem to fathom to be able to go on any longer. And none of them is better or worse than the other in the times they were “ready to die”. If the person you refer to painted Dean’s decision in being okay to die as “selfsih”, then Sam’s can be seen that way just the same. And frankly, I don’t think what the show intended to be the takeaway for any of those scenes for the audience to place blame and hate on any of the brothers. If that was a takeaway to said person I think they should think again.

Hope I did manage to somehow give a decent reply, but it is a delicate topic, so I hope none of this was triggering or upsetting for anyone to read. If so I sincerely apologize, it was not my intention at all.