#Not even goingto talk about the challenges right now

[plutosoda]

notflooding the tags of that one post but. yeah i'm also too stupid for this game i had to get through it with brute force savescumming like a criminal and Sheer Dumb Luck

[howardlyontx]

Edmunds Discussion: 2017 Detroit Auto Show Highlights

MARK TAKAHASHI: I’m Edmunds editor Mark Takahashi,and we’re sitting around a table with editor Jay Kavanaghand Travis Langness. And we just got out of the second day of the 2017 DetroitAuto Show, better known as the North American InternationalAuto Show. And we’re going to go for our impressions. We’ll start with Jay Kav. Jay Kav, what did you cover that we should know about?JAY KAVANAGH: I covered the 2018 all-newToyota Camry, which people think of it as boring,but it’s really still a significant car. Crossover sales have taken over midsize sedansales in recent years. But man, they still sell a lot of Camrys. So it’s a hugely significant car in the segment. And it’s all new. They went crazy with the styling. I don’t know if you saw it, but– well, I’m sure you did. But it’s very bold styling, especially from Toyota,which historically not known for gettingreally aggressive with styling. MARK TAKAHASHI: Bold is a good word for it. But I thought it lacked a certain elegance. When it comes to designing in that segment,I think the leader is more along lines of Kia Optima,despite its few flaws. Camry seems to have been design-challenged for a while. This, I think is an improvement. Fortunately, that’s completely subjectiveand what we think is unattractive,someone might actually really like. TRAVIS LANGNESS: I think it depended too on the color. There were three pretty broad color choices on the Camry. There was one that was a two-tone with this reallydark midnight blue on top, and thenlike a white pearlescent on bottom. And that just looked so unCamry. But then you went over a little bit on the podiums,and there was one there that was kind of a deep maroonish color,and it looked a little bit classier to me. That was a better version of the Camry. But definitely agree with Mark’s take on it too. It is a little bit better than the last one. I like the styling for sure, it’s improved. JAY KAVANAGH: But this car, it’s also got an on the platform. It’s got a new four cylinder, a V6 from the Highlander,an [INAUDIBLE] transmission. They’ve also divided the styling themesup into two different groupings, whereyou’ve got the sporty red one that was on the stand,and you’ve also got a little bit more toned-down one. And so I think they’re trying to make a more concerted effortto appeal to more buyers than already buy Camrys, whichis a lot. MARK TAKAHASHI: Right on. Travis, what did you cover?TRAVIS LANGNESS: One brand specificallythat I covered was Volkswagen. And theyhad two different reveals at the show. The first was a new long-wheelbase Tiguan. And the second was a concept car, the ID Buzz. The Tiguan, even some of the Volkswagen peoplewere a little bit obscure on whether or notall new Tiguans were going to be long-wheelbase. But this one grew by about 11 inches,and it gets an optional third row,which is kind of big for that segment. The CR-V, the CX-5, neither of thosehave an optional third row. The Rogue does, but that’s pretty rare in that segment. And then also that that car got a lot of safetyfeatures it didn’t have before. A lot of cool stuff like 360 degree camera, adaptive cruisecontrol. But then the more kind of flashy was the ID Buzz,which was their bus. It’s their kind of callback, throwback to the microbus. And it’s all electric, which is the ID family for Volkswagen,it’s going to be all electric. And this one had a projected range on the American cycleof 270 miles, which is big. That’s real close to the biggest electric competitorson the market. MARK TAKAHASHI: Will we actually see this go to production,you think?TRAVIS LANGNESS: That’s interesting. I don’t think the way it looks, it will go to production. It’s got these kind of slide railswhere the center stack can slide all the way to the backseat,and it’s only got two rows for a car thatcould easily fit three. It’s kind of auto-show flashy, it doesn’t evenhave a real steering wheel. It’s got this articulating kind of thingthat comes out of the dash. But definitely the technology could go to production. If they can fit that many batteries in the floorand proof of concept works out, itwill be especially good for them to fill that gapthat diesel has left in kind of Volkswagen’s lineupfor people that want an efficient car. MARK TAKAHASHI: Right on. On my side I covered the F-150, which is obviouslyone of the best-selling or the top sellingvehicle of all time in the US. It received a slight styling refreshin the grill, bumpers, and tailgate. But the big news was a three-liter turbodiesel engine is finally going to join the lineup. So it should be kind of that mid-level between the EcoBoostand the five-liter V8. It should be great for hauling and towingand fuel efficiency as well. They’re also getting a bunch of new safety features,adaptive cruise with frontal collision,with pedestrian detection. And adaptive cruise will actually go down to a stop. So that’s kind of cool. TRAVIS LANGNESS: Yeah, it seemed kind of like the big storythis year in a lot of the cars, or at leastlike a unifying theme, I thought,that most of the cars that you hadn’t seen safety featureslike that on before, got them. Everybody’s kind of getting onboard that trainof realizing that even if it’s not standard,they want those optional safety trims. MARK TAKAHASHI: Yeah, absolutely. Especially when it comes to mass market stuffwhere you’re going to be taking a lot of passengers and familymembers. And speaking of family members and peoplemovers, the Honda Odyssey got its debut in Detroit. And I have to say, I’m not a minivan guy,but this thing was really impressiveas far as its smart features. On the outside, it definitely looks like an Odyssey. And it’s got a V6. But that’s not the news. The big news is the features inside. So they have the magic slide second row,where you can actually slide it laterally. There’s several positions so you can put a kid in a child’s seatin the doorway, and slide into the center positionso you can still access them while you’re on the road. Then there’s other thoughtful featureslike the camera that looks down into the passenger compartment. So as a driver, you can monitor your passengers,whether they’re your kids or whatever,as well as communicate with them through the speakersor the rear entertainment center headsets. So all this stuff is really smartly donewith real families in mind. JAY KAVANAGH: Yeah, leave it to Hondato come up with these innovative clever things. That’s kind of what they’re known for. And not only that, but you look at the interiorof the Honda, that new Odyssey, and it’s really pretty. It’s gorgeous execution, taking the concept of the minivanfrom being a necessity that you just sort of begrudginglyaccepted to an executive shuttle,almost in the touring trim. And they’ve taken that to the next level, I think,with the new Odyssey’s interior. MARK TAKAHASHI: So elsewhere in the show,there was one that got a lot of buzz. And it was the Kia Stinger. Personally I really like the styling of it. And I know that’s subjective. But it has some really good proportions– a long hood,a kind of sweeping, tapering, tail and roofline. And it’s got some real grunt, too. It doesn’t compete directly with a lot of carsthat I’m about to mention, but styling-wise, Iliked it a lot better than the Alfa Romeo. And I’m a big fan of Italian design. So I’m not sure if that says something moreabout Kia or Alfa Romeo. JAY KAVANAGH: I’m going to disagree. I think the Stinger was overwrought. I didn’t think that the styling worked in person really,at all. And a lot of it had to do with add-on chrome featuresand perforations in the nose, and it justlooked like they fussed and fussed over itand maybe just overdid it. TRAVIS LANGNESS: I think I’m goingto fall right in between your two opinions, because I’m stillholding my verdict on this car. I want to know how much it’s going to cost. And there was some talk about that,but really the important part to meis going to be how much does this nice, fast, prettygood-looking, although that’s subjective car,how much is it going to cost?And just how fast is it?I’m really excited to test it, though. And it was definitely interesting to seea Kia steal the show, really. Everybody was pretty surrounding of that car. Everybody kind of packed in to seewhat it was like at the event. MARK TAKAHASHI: And definitely the factthat they have a former BMW chassis engineer heading upthis program gives it a lot more credibilitythan it might have had otherwise, knowing how Kia,Hyundai products in terms of dynamics and rideand handling– they’re still trying to figure that out. So having that guy on board reallybodes well for the future of the car,but we won’t know until we know. And I’m looking forward to driving it, that’s for sure. Thanks for joining me, Travis Langness and Jay Kavanagh. I’m Mark Takahashi, let us know what you think. We’d love to hear your opinions on all these topics. Drop us a line and let us know. Thanks for joining us.

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[inb4vaughn]

Remembering R.J. Harper, Pebble Beach’s Point Man

Editor’s Note: On November 8, 2017, the game of golf lost one of its greatest leaders, characters, supporters and ambassadors. Robert “R.J.” Thomas Harper, who started at Pebble Beach as a course marshal in 1985 and rose through the ranks to become Executive Vice President of Golf and Retail for the Pebble Beach Company, died of pancreatic cancer, leaving behind sons Tucker and JT Harper, grandsons Caden and Hudson, sister Cathy Carr and former wife and close friend Kelly Yost Harper. He also leaves behind a legacy of excellence that may never be equaled in the golf resort realm, or at any level. He was the consummate host, boss, visionary and friend of the game, and he never failed to greet newcomers with a smile, a rich story and a kind word while overseeing one of the most respected and admired golf operations in the world with grace, humor and a tireless work ethic. In 2003, as editor and co-publisher of Fairways + Greens magazine, Golf Tips editor Vic Williams sat down with Harper for the following interview. Though we’re 15 years removed from these words and a few changes have taken place along 17-Mile Drive over those years, including the names of the owners and partners, Harper’s enthusiasm and bright spirit shine through — and will continue to echo across the cliffs and coves of his beloved Pebble Beach.

He runs the most famous and revered public golf operation in the world, but R.J. Harper doesn’t put on airs. He’s as down-to-earth and humble as they come, and always puts the customer first — whether he’s a well-heeled CEO or an everyday Joe who’s saved up the bucks to make the pilgrimage to the Monterey Peninsula and play Pebble Beach itself or its sister courses: Spyglass Hill, the Links at Spanish Bay or Del Monte Golf Club. He’s got the best job in golf, and the toughest.

In his 18 years as Director of Golf Operations for the Pebble Beach Company, Harper has hosted a couple of U.S. Opens — including Tiger Woods’ epochal 15-stroke victory in 2000 — thousands of celebrities and top-tier pros in the AT&T National Pro-Am every February, and hundreds of thousands of golfers who stream in day after day to tee it up in whatever weather the fickle Pacific throws at them.

“Today it’s hot,” Harper told us in late June as he prepared to take a much-deserved vacation. “It’s pushing 85 degrees, with almost no wind. We usually don’t get into the 70s around here. It’s unusual — and gorgeous.”

Just another day in golf paradise, which put Harper in the mood for a fascinating talk about what makes the Pebble Beach Company tick, and how he, his employees and the company’s principals (including Arnold Palmer and Clint Eastwood) are constantly striving to make a unique, stellar product even better.

You’ve seen all kinds of changes in 18 years — changes in ownership, changes in the golf course, moving a new tree to No. 18 in place of the famous old tree just last year. You’re probably at the most revered course in the country if not the world next to Augusta National. What’s it like to be there on a day to day basis and see people’s reaction to the course and the whole Pebble Beach mystique?

Harper: There’s a unique challenge every day with respect to Pebble Beach, the entire company and our resort. It’s exciting to come into the office every day after all these years and know there’s something new on the horizon that needs to be addressed. It’s all about progress, never about looking back.

I was the championship director for the U.S. Open in 2000. I kind of ran the tournament. It was a wonderful shining moment, but the day after the Open left here, we had a full house with both hotels full, and it was business booming and let’s go get it. There’s no real time to sit back and look at the past. It’s about moving forward, particularly with respect to this new ownership. Not to diminish what their predecessors did; they did a wonderful job of polishing the jewel with Pebble Beach. But this group is intent on continuing to progress and keep improving everything we have, everything we’re privileged to manage out here.

How great is it to be here? It’s fantastic. I can’t say there’s no stress in the job. When you manage four golf courses and all that potentially can go wrong, and have as many visitors that come through here with extremely high expectations, there’s certainly a level of responsibility that goes with that. But I don’t love it any less today than when I came here.

After seeing the course in person, the thought is always the same: There’s no way TV can bring across how special the place really is.

Harper: No doubt. There’s a drama to it that changes during the day. It can be sunny and beautiful, and instantly a mist rolls in off the sea and it takes on a different hue. Then the sun starts to go down and everything just “wakes up.” It’s an interesting place. I’ve been to a lot of coastal courses around the world and have beauty and uniqueness, but nothing to match this. You go to Hawaii and get pretty much a continual weather pattern. Same in the desert. Here you get those subtle changes. You’re peeling off and putting layers back on, all in the course of one round of golf. It adds to the magic of the place.

When I came out here I had never seen Pebble Beach, just on TV, but I loved it. I went out and sat by the old pine tree on the 18t, watched the sun go down as the last two groups came in, and I swore that one day I was goingto be able to afford to play this golf course. And to think that now I’m running all of the Pebble Beach golf operations, I pinch myself. It’s a dream I could never have conjured up. I’ve been very fortunate.

Back to the new management team. Obviously they’re high-profile guys. Some of the locals don’t like what they’ve done. Others say, “Thank God they got Pebble back into American hands.” But it still has that feel of a classic American public golf course, even though it might not be accessible to everybody. So what has their contribution been as a whole and on an individual basis?

Harper: All four principals have provided their expertise on a very frequent basis.

I’ve used Arnold in a number of ways. He’s got his hands into the golf at Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Spanish Bay and even Del Monte, so we’re excited about every opportunity we have to engage Arnold in re-examining everything we do relative to the golf course, for a better experience for golfers — and keeping the promise these owners made to continue to improve the product.

Dick Ferris is a real hotel guy and also a golf guy. He’s on the PGA Tour policy board. He and Arnold are very close, so he’s working with use closely as well on the golf and hotel sides. He’s really involved.

Peter is doing a lot of work in sponsorships and marketing sales. He lends his expertise there. And Clint is doing a tremendous amount of work helping inform the community and political bodies about the Del Monte Forest plan so the right information is being submitted out there. We want to grow the core of our business — which is another golf course and some additional hotel rooms.

So each of them is really active in what we’re doing here.

When you headed up the [2000] Open, the USGA swooped in there and set up giant tents and huge infrastructure. You had a couple days of fog delays. Do you ever look back — even though the following Monday morning was business as usual — and think that you’d ever seen anything so colossal in scope? It was like the Super Bowl.

Harper: It was definitely our Super Bowl. We’re fortunate to do it once in a decade, and it’s been great.

I have a picture of the U.S. Open committee on my office wall. I look up every once in a while and look at all the faces that orchestrated this thing. We do sit back and marvel at what a feat it was. We had to build a city that was going to go up carefully and quietly and taken down carefully and quietly. We’re in a significant residential community, and we hear about it if we don’t do things right. We got their support on our side and there wouldn’t too many missteps. There were a few behind-the-scenes things we had to improve upon, but it was almost seamless from the perspective of the people who came to the event. NBC did a great job broadcasting the beauty of Pebble Beach. They had about 40 percent more cameras than any other tournament we’ve had here.

I just went to Olympia Fields [site of the 2003 Open], and that put it all back into focus for me — watching other people do it.

The golf course itself: You’ve got those classic holes, four through 10, along the ocean, then 17 and 18. Do you think some of the inland holes get short shrift? Are there a couple of favorites of yours?

Harper: One of my favorite golf holes is 16. It’s obviously in the home stretch, but it’s just a great hole, sets up real nicely off the tee. You’ve got to position yourself on the left side of that fairway, so you’ve got to hit a precise shot. And the green sitting down among that grove of oak trees is a pretty sight; you can see the ocean in the distance, so you don’t feel the ocean but you’ve got a presence there.

So many people who play Pebble Beach a few times talk about 16 as being one of those unsung, really good golf holes. All the coastal holes are terrific, obviously.

Fourteen is a beast of a hole. It requires three really good golf shots, then you’re not finished. You don’t want to be in that big greenside bunker, and most people are. There are a lot of high scores on that hole. It deserves its No. 1 ranking.

Walking the course, you notice all the design nuances that don’t come through on TV. For instance, the big half-pipe bunker in front of No. 2 green, and the big bunker in front at 16. You get out there and say, “This is totally different than on TV.”

Harper: You’re absolutely right. Television doesn’t have the perspective that you obviously have when you’re walking. Those bunkers are much larger than you imagine.

Being there every day, do you sometimes feel the ghosts of the past? Do you feel Payne Stewart on the 18th green — there’s the story of him going out on the rock wall with his bottle of Cristal…

Harper: Oh, yes, I was part of that. I was in the Tap Room with him that night. There were a couple of guys sitting at the bar; Payne and I and Chuck [Cook, his longtime coach] were in the corner. Most everybody else had gone. These two guys kept looking back at Payne. He didn’t have his knickers or cap on, plus the Tap Room is dark, so it was hard to tell if it was him. When Payne and Chuck got up, they walked toward the lobby of the hotel. Payne had the U.S. Open trophy up in his hotel room. I walked out the front door, then I turned around when I heard the guys saying, “Hey, you’re not Payne Stewart, are you?” And he said, “Sure I am. Why do you ask?” And they said, “No, no, you’re not. We just made a bet.”

So Payne goes upstairs and gets the trophy, brings it back and sets it up on the bar. Then he gets the bartender to fill it up with beer and they’re all drinking out of the U.S. Open trophy. Later, Chuck and Payne carried it out to the seawall. It was pretty funny.

But to answer your question, we saw a lot of Payne Stewart here. He played the AT&T a number of times, and an Open or two. He was a wonderful guy. But there are a lot of guys who have come and gone; Pebble Beach conjures them up in the minds of most people who walk the golf course. They look back from the 18th green along the coast and kind of reflect that they’ve just walked among the greats.

With most Open championships, PGA Championships — and certainly The Masters and the British that don’t move around the United States — you’ve got very few golf courses that a great number of people have had a chance to play. Pebble’s one of them. You can remember shots the greats have hit here to win the U.S. Open. I can’t tell you the number of times people drop a ball at the left side of 17, filling in for Tom Watson’s shot in 1982.

Pebble is so famous and unique, but you’ve got a couple of other tracks there that are pretty darn good. Spyglass Hill has to be one of the toughest golf courses in the state, if not the toughest.

Spyglass is in its best condition ever. All our members and guests tell us that. We have been working so hard on it. The company made a significant capital investment — millions of dollars in infrastructure  — to make sure Spyglass is the golf course it’s supposed to be. We’re not going to stop there, but it’s so good right now.

Spyglass is kind of like Phil Mickelson in golf course form. Phil is the best golfer never to have won a major [Editor’s note: Mickelson finally broke through the following spring at the Masters], and Spyglass is the best course never to have hosted one. It should have had a major by now, but unfortunately it sits in the shadow of Pebble Beach. But I submit it’s still one of the better courses in the United States. It could host a major right now; it’s in that kind of shape. All the players in the state amateur qualifier earlier this year said the same thing.

How often do some of Pebble’s biggest fans — Mark O’Meara, who’s won the AT&T several times, Peter Jacobsen, who’s also done well there — sneak out for a round?

Harper: A number of players come out here on a fairly regular basis. Most top players are signed to sponsorship deals with a number of companies, and when those companies host meetings, outings, client entertainment et cetera at one of our hotels, O’Meara, Freddie Couples, Lee Trevino — all those guys will come out here to enjoy a day or two of golf. Johnny Miller. Mike Weir was here two weeks ago.

Once every week or so we’ve got a top name in the house. We’re very fortunate.

Hard-core golfers see the merit in paying a lot of money to play Pebble Beach. What would you say to somebody who’s skeptical — why is this golf course worth that kind of money? What pushes it over the edge?

Harper: You can play golf at 17,000 courses around the United States. There are a handful where you would say, “I had an experience,” something you’re going to talk about for the rest of your life, over and over again. Others are just a round of golf. I think what separates courses like Pebble Beach and other courses is, this one lingers with you. There are all those intangibles that add up to an experience like no other.

If you look at the price of Broadway shows, or sitting courtside at an NBA game, or NFL playoff tickets, they’re the same as playing Pebble — and that’s three hours of entertainment. So if you compare a round at Pebble Beach with other types of experiences that you’re going to remember and reflect on, and share with your father, or your son, or your wife, then you kind of see the reality of it.

I’m not trying to justify why Pebble Beach fees are what they are. But that’s the way people who want to come out here all the time feel about it, what I hear from them.

And you can’t really put a dollar amount on that.

Harper: No question about it.

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