#Nopes'd

[randomnameless]

I've heard you mention before how bad the Zahras chapter is in terms of characterization for the three lords, especially Dimitri, but can you specify the reasons why?

Thanks to the datamine, I can finally get those lines without having to screencap everything from youtube!

So,

For Dimitri, Claude says this :

I'm just gonna come out and say it: After the war, I'm going to abolish the Central Church and depose the archbishop. The people of Fódlan have been shackled by this decrepit system for too long, and I'm ending it.

So okayyy...

Claude just says he has some beef with the person Dimitri welcomed as a refugee. Why?

That's right. Think about it. Who steals your freedom and gives you an endless list of duties and obligations simply because you have a Crest?

Dimitri's obligations and duties are his, not because he has a crest, but because he is a King - just like King of Almyra would have obligations and duties not to let his own people starve or be used as meatshields in Saturday raids, or letting his spurned son mount the biggest invasion ever because he's too busy mopping about his missing son, but apparently the King of Almyra doesn't give a fuck about his people.

And while yes, Dimitri is a King because he was born with a crest as Lambert's son... The need to have a crested King never came from the Church, and let's be real, Dimitri, as the character we know, feels like he has a duty to people and wishes to help because he is Dimitri, even if he was crestless like Ashe, Dimitri would want to help (just like Ashe!).

Who forces you and your friends into a bunch of unwanted marriages and positions of power?

That's not the Church, for sure, but the feudal notion of nobility - even if, let's be real, it is completely hypocritical for Claude to say this, because the same notion of nobility also exists in places around the continent where the CoS has no sway like... Almyra?

And about the unwanted marriages, again, Claude knows (or should know) Lorenz and his marriage problems, it is not the Church who forces people in unwanted marriages, but the responsibilities that come with being a Noble - Lorenz marrying Marianne means both house Gloucester and House Edmund are strengthened and could work more closely, maybe being able to rival Riegan or even overtake them in an "importance" contest, Lorenz marrying Leonie means... House Gloucester stays House Gloucester.

It's also hilarious because AG has a NPC talking about her marriage to House Gautier (I think?), and she never mentions the Church, rather mentions how she ultimately loves her husband.

The church even forbids any official contact with outside regions!

Source : my chamber pot

Dimitri knows well, after having seen Rhea helping Duscurian refugees, that the Church does not forbid contact with "outside regions", hell, Faerghus and Duscur were on relative good grounds, before the Regicide.

Not exactly great for Faerghus, right? Being as close to Sreng and Albinea as you are.

If Faerghus has sour relationships with Sreng, it's because of border raids, but of course a Prince of Almyra will never talk about this :)

And we know Albinea trades a lot with Fodlan, in general, if their damn fruits being in every region is any indication - or this tidbit from the Book detailing the Royal Territories of Faerghus :

Dominic A small but beautiful barony. Its coastal cities have become a hub of commerce through trade with Albinea.

Too bad Claude speaks, again, with confidence, about something he doesn't know, but can you imagine a micro-second that Dimitri doesn't know who Dominic trades with? Gilbert, a second son of House Dominic, is pious to a fault - but apparently he never bothers telling his brother that trading with Albinea is BaD, so...

Claude, again, is presenting the contents of his chamber pot to Dimitri, asking him to trust him based on those.

Claude continues, after assuring Dimitri that Faerghus isn't his goal !

And really, our enemy isn't the actual church so much as the people at the top who make all the decisions.

Rhea BaD

So it's not even about the Church in General, but apparently, Rhea (as the people at the top) makes the decisions to, uh, prevent the world from interacting with Fodlan (but there are Morfis merchants in Garreg Mach???) - the same woman who, in AG, we hear busies herself helping children and refugees from Duscur after a fire or what not.

(And that's not talking about the kind of official "contact" Adrestia had with Brigid and Sreng...)

I'm sorry Claude, but if the Alliance doesn't want to have any "official" contact with Almyra, it's not because Rhea forbids said contact, but it's because your father, your brother and your retainer (?) Nader apparently do not see anything wrong with a penis measuring contest that consists in raiding, "rampaging" and "bringing souvenirs" from Fodlan for funsies.

So, after playing 12 chapters in AG where Dimitri knows what Rhea does, we could expect some rebuttal, right?

I understand where you're coming from, Claude, and on a personal level I actually agree with you.

Dimi, no :(

But as King, he is opposed, not because a King has to use his head and can't do stupid shit on a whim (like marrying the still current wife of a foreign leader!)

Yes, for three reasons. First, abolishing the church would deny the king's right to rule Faerghus. Without one, the people will descend into chaos and war. Would you be able to take responsibility for such a thing, once it came to pass?

My Bad!

That mention of the King's right to rule Faerghus coming from the Church was nonsensical during the discourse days, and still is, after Nopes.

If the Kingdom's name is "Holy", remember that a name and a history doesn't mean a thing when people don't want to follow it - again, remember what happened with Adrestia? They pissed on the Church, Rhea acting as a witness is a custom you can ignore whenever you want, and they are actually waging a war against the Church of Seiros, when Seiros herself fucking created (together with Willy!) the country who has her own symbol on their flag!

Faerghus won its independence against Adrestia, Church or no Church, Faerghus existed by fucking over the Empire (as it was led by Loog). Without the Church, and faced with a powerful Empire, are we really supposed to think Faerghians won't rally behind Loog's scion to, hm, protect them or at least ensure their continued independence from Adrestia?

Second, recklessly discarding the church will only incite discord among the clergy and its supporters.

This is a somewhat valid reason, as we know, the CoS helped the Kingdom in recent times, especially after the regicide. But they are also currently helping the Kingdom against Supreme Leader's war of conquest, let it be by taking care of randoms or sending its knights to support Faerghus.

Also, the Kingdom operates on "shat upon by this game" notions of gratitude, love and loyalty - unlike Adrestia, if Supreme Leader's stunt of backstabbing the CoS after they helped her get rid of "corruption" in the Empire is any indication. And I doubt the same Kingdom folk would readily accept it if their King suddenly got rid of the organisation/woman who helped them so much during their time of need.

And finally, a revolution of this nature will not only mean casualties among the commonfolk, but will endanger your own life as well.

I will have to check the JP text because this "revolution" word is a bit contrived - there's no revolution if you're just kicking out a religious organisation in YOUR Kingdom - but yes, commonfolk will be pissed (maybe take up weapons?) even if I'm pretty sure some "noblefolk" will also be pissed at this decision.

And because Dimitri worries about everyone - save for Rhea and the church apparently because they BaD - he also worries about Claude's life.

Leaving the first two for a second, I have some serious issues with that last one. I'm glad you're concerned for my safety, but I can take care of myself

Claude really replies with "leaving logic aside" and the commonfolk casualties he doesn't give a fuck about if GW is any indication, uwu don't worry about me I can watch over myself :)

Ah, good ol' Plot Armor :)

But don't you see? The people you wish to depose are human, just as you are.

Hahahan hilarious Dimitri, those people aren't human ! Supreme Leader told me!

No matter what ingenious scheme you come up with or how careful you try to be, they will suffer.

Is he trying to appeal to Claude's compassion and moral fiber? The guy who is, in GW, invading his country for funsies, staging a double invasion with Sreng forces who are just used as decoy/fodder?

And their vengeance will eventually find you, no matter how hard you try to stave it off. I know full well the guilt that accompanies such actions…and the retribution they provoke

Lol, no.

Who can give a fuck about the suffering of Nabateans/Church folk? Being backstabbed by everyone because of propaganda, and needing to die for reasons as consistent as a baby's first purée?

"don't do that Claude, Rhea will be angry and swear vengeance against you, and blablabla cycle of hatred and retributions and blabla"

Everyone has to deal with the consequences of their decisions. If you let it rule you, Fódlan never changes.

Says Mister "I abolished a Republic and created a Kingdom in the land that used to say "we bow to no king and to no emperor" " or "I'm invading your land and killing your people" or even "I'm enrolling Almyrans in my army who will rampage and bring souvenirs and the Leicesterians (?) are totally okay with it!" ?

Claude who never ever faces any consequences for his bonkers decision through the entire game? That guy? Talks about "dealing with the consequences"? Fodlan changing is more important than Fodlan dying?

(at least that's how it was for the Alliance turned Federation...)

But not taking the time to look where you're going will only lead you to stumble and fall. And if there are those who would be hurt by this, I consider it my duty to help them.

Dimitri wants to help... Claude, who would be hurt with this "revolution", but dgaf about getting rid of the Church, aka Rhea/Seteth/the clergy who would also, obviously, be "hurt" by this stupid idea?

Heh. There you go, trying to save everyone again. You really are too good for me!

Not everyone, as we all understood - the Church can burn :)

To be honest, I'm jealous of how you're not burdened with the same restrictions.

"tbh Claude, I'm jealous of how you don't give a fuck about the number of deaths your actions are causing"

Are we... sure that's Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd talking here? Really? Wasn't he body snatched by Chilon?

Forgot OOC, this line wouldn't even be said by this character.

In the world I'm trying to create, you wouldn't be burdened by them either. You could even… No, forget that. I'm serious about what I said, though. And I really do admire how you want to save everyone. Honestly, if you weren't a king, I think we could've been friends.

"In my world, you too wouldn't give a fuck about the deaths/suffering your actions are creating! You're only worried about them because you are king! But if you weren't, you could be an amoral asshole, just like me! Could we be fwends in an AU plz?"

I feel much the same. Had I joined with you, I might have been able to see a different vision of Fódlan.

"yeah!"

Sadly, Dimitri isn't able to throw his compassion and morals to the trashcan, so he cannot join Claude !

And if you consider this line can be said during the GW events (remember, the invasion, killing Matthias, killing his soldiers and his people, etc etc), this is even more insulting.

So, as a good friend said, this Zahrofl convo shits on FE16!Claude (but the games is all about it), but more importantly, it is the only place in the game where Dimitri is Nopes'd, aka, his character does a 180° and/or is butchered because the plot demands so.

Like, anon, can you imagine a second, Dimitri, the Dimitri, wishing he too, couldn't "be burdened"' by the suffering he creates?

Imo, it's on par with Supreme Leader suddenly loving the sun and loving to swim. That character wouldn't be Supreme Leader, just like the person in this convo, isn't Fodlan's Dimitri (tfw Engage's Emblem!Dimitri is more faithful to IS's idea of Dimitri than Nopes lol).

[randomnameless]

Ludwig :

Together, they managed to reach the heart of the fortress and seize control. As we speak, they hold hostage many key commanders and their families. Angry portrait : They're using the hostages as leverage over our loyal soldiers to force them into their ranks.

-> He BaD

Supreme Leader :

Lord Arundel has the support of a number of influential nobles, including the prime minister, Duke Aegir. And while we have allies of our own, it's likely they'll require some convincing. To that end, we wish to bring our friends here at the academy—their daughters and sons—with us under the supervision of Professor Jeritza.

"It's not using hostages, it's convincing our allies by taking their heirs with us. Pretty different."

The evil lizard lady - who swallowed an idiot and OOC pill here :

It's clear you have thought carefully and planned well.

-> She Pragmatic and has carefully planned her assault.

Given how Ferdie, Bernie and especially Caspar react, I'm pretty sure they weren't aware that, uh, they were used as a means to "convince" their parents.

(if Ludwig managed to defeat the forces that were sent after his head, what would have happened to clueless!Ferdie ? Would he have been used, just like Cat to make Shamir join, to, uh, "convince" Ludwig to bow the knee?)

[randomnameless]

You don't have to answer this if you don't want to but if you could give Rodrigue a support with a non-Blue Lion who would it be and why?

Why wouldn't I want to answer anon ?

i'm just late of a lot of asks that's all but it's not like i don't want to answer lol

I think saying Rhea or Seteth would be considered cheating -

But if your question is "Rodrigue in Nopes", given how the rest of the cast is, uhh, well, you know, I'd pick Ferdie.

Of course the game would have to be convoluted to make Ferdie recall his SS persona, but it would be nice for Ferdie to see someone who really acted as a right hand to his leader - something Ferdie wanted to be back then at the Academy - and maybe even talk about his role in the future and what he wants to be.

And for the Deers, maybe Lorenz - who might remember his Noblesse Oblige characterisation - and they could discuss about how they think Nobles have the same duty (to protect) and yet how different their approach to said duty differs.

But I have way more thoughts and ideas about Rodrigue and Seteth having convos (about losing a child, accepting the choice of said child to go to war or take up weapons) or even with Rhea herself (maybe they could finally say what was the "help" the CoS offered just after Lambert's death, or they could talk about guilt for surviving a loved one and how to move on, with Rhea trying to help which would make Rodrigue notice there's something "wrong" with her?)

[randomnameless]

Nothing says intsys now thinks “we consider byleth their own character now” more than “so all their maps will be with the nabateans but we will also trash talk them now and call them evil beasts and use them to sell more hresvelg tea time”

Billy's a tru lizard now, ignored and trash talked to sell more tea !

Congratulations !

[randomnameless]

Still milking academy phase, huh? IS won't touch war phase unless players literally force them through CYL and stuff. Sometimes I wonder if they regret what they did with 3H, or just don't have any attachment to the characters because they let KT do most of the work, and only use them as easy cashgrabs. Also, where is the Lance of Ruin? And the Sword of Moralta? Sword of Seiros? And why is Luin an arcane weapon? Won't people turn into demonic beasts??? Why is Ingrid the only one from Nopes???

Poor Ingrid, she was Nopes'd :(

I'd say given how IS is allergic to giving the side eye to Supreme Leader, if an unit has a post timeskip design said unit will talk about how sad and shitty war is, thus shit on Supreme Leader (since saying "it's their fault for not dying when I ask them to" can't really work in a game celebrating the franchise).

(or they're keeping the war designs for brave alts ?)

Since Rearmed Grima the "lore" behind those weapons has been lost to existence, but yeah, it's a really bad move, especially considering how Rhea is in the banner ! As much as I'd have loved a sword version of her with her sword, it just won't happen.

Ultimately I think IS through heroes tries to retrofit/retool the characters KT, uh, developed in Nopes, while still trying to sell alts of course, so they focus on some traits while ignoring others...

Granted, FE16 characters have always been, imo, complicated to write since they should be able to join Tru Piss, Nopes fleshed out the BL more as a result, and I'd say it's no wonder the largely houses banner that comes after Nopes is a BL banner.

I mean, how are you supposed to write academy Leonie now that Nopes exposed she dgaf about villages being pilfered and refugees being hunted by her Supreme Allies ? Or won't give a fuck about attacking neutral third parties because her house Leader/king is completely stupid ?

[randomnameless]

The takes gotten more popularity thanks to Hopes and the piss that is Claude and Dimitris support, where they act like Dimitri is totes fine with sacrificing the Church when Claude makes clear he’s out for blood and Dimitri only worries about him. With CF the take doesn’t even work because Rhea herself was part of the plan and knew her forces were meant to take the hit, she was fine with it and the rain is what delayed her.

Rhea isn't a snowflake, she's a war commander, and I like Tru Piss for showing this side of her.

She's no Nyna or Guinevere, a princess ousted from Jerry home who has to be protected by the blue lord, no, blue lord acknowledges her might as a military commander, and they have a strategy.

Zahras!Dimitri is a Nopes!Dimitri who can still be revenge focused, but who apparently accepts to talk with, in 2/3rds of the routes, the people who are invading his kingdom for "reasons" ffs who might have killed his closest friends - and he comes to the conclusion that no, removing Clout's head from his shoulders isn't a viable solution, but Rhea BaD is one? You want me to believe that Dimitri - the Dimitri - would throw someone who helped him and his country and expressly requested his help - to the wolves because of some bullshit reasoning that having a crest and being a noble forces him to accept the duty of the king and to marry people?

Like wtf

Zahras!Dimitri is a Dimitri finally hit by an idiot plot ball, because doylist wise all 3 lords have to be fwends uwu even if it doesn't make any sense.

But then, people discuss about pincer attacks without knowing what a pincer attack actually is, so...