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heloisedaphnebrightmore · 4 years ago

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Like a dream pt. 1|2 [Sirius Black x Reader] - Challenge

Title: Like a dream pt. 1 ➔ Like a dream pt. 2 - Here! Pairing: Sirius Black x Female!Reader Word count: 3.4k Published: 20 January 2021 Author: Heloise Daphne Brightmore Notes: Important note at the end Summary: Sirius and you were supposed to be enemies, but your crush on him might not be as unrequited as you thought. Challenge: [x] [x] This is part of @sleep-i-ness writing challenge on tumblr. I used the below dialogue

“Can I kiss you?” “I don’t know, can you?”

Bingo: [x] This is part of my Make me feel Bingo Card by @girl-next-door-writes on tumblr

Square filled: Enemies to lovers

Harry Potter Characters Masterlist | Masterlists

Make me feel Bingo Masterlist

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You always disliked Sirius Black. Or at least that’s what you told everyone who dared to comment on your constant bickering and picking on one another. But you couldn’t deceive yourself. You caught yourself gazing at the boy from afar, hands getting clammy around him, air stuck in your lungs.

You felt your face heat up around him, making your crush on the boy dangerously obvious. You tried to conceal it with muggle makeup and useful charms you learnt from your friends and so far, it has been helping, but your nervous state couldn’t be fixed, even if you tried to count from one to ten, even if you tried to think of awful thoughts. The boy had effects on you that no one else had.

Your families having an amazing relationship didn’t help in keeping a distance either. So, when your mother announced the Blacks visit, you almost forgot to breathe for a mere second. You rushed up to your room, dressing up into your prettiest dress, putting on just a small amount of make-up, before taking care of the mess on top of your head that others called hair.

It barely took an hour or so before you heard your parents greeting the Blacks downstairs. You took a deep breath and wore the coldest expression you could possibly manage. You knew Sirius would have a couple of snarky comments spiced up with his usually cocky grin, one that always took your breath away, so you composed yourself and prepared for the worst.

Walking down the stairs felt even more difficult as your legs slightly wobbled. When you caught sight of him, even the air stuck in your lungs, your throat dried out. You wanted to scream into outer space, scolding yourself for being affected by someone who never really had a kind word to say to you. Although he never really offended you either. You just mutually got on each others’ nerves.

“Darling, finally, come on down,” your mother ushered you over to them as she saw you heading down the stairs.

You smiled sweetly as you greeted Walburga and Orion, before you turned to Regulus, but when your eyes met Sirius, words didn’t seem to want to leave your lips. He wore his usual cocky smile as he studied your face, seemingly unbothered about the lack of greeting.

“Cat got your tongue?” he asked, snickering as his parents followed yours into the dining room with Regulus behind them.

“You wish, Black,” you scoffed, but deep down you wanted to run into a wall. You were not one to be silent, one without words, but Sirius’ presence often caused you a momentary brain damage.

“Actually, I don’t. It would get boring,” he shrugged casually. You tilted your head in confusion, brows furrowed.

“You can’t possibly tell me you wouldn’t be happy if I couldn’t talk,” you raised a brow curiously.

“So, I’d have to listen to my own voice at all times? I’d love it. For a short period of time, of course. But for any longer, please, even I’d go mental,” he pulled a face, making you giggle. It wasn’t a sound you often let yourself have when Sirius was around. You didn’t necessarily hate each other, but none of you really had a nice word to say to the other, which often led to a bickering session.

“And we certainly wouldn’t want that,” you added sarcastically with a cheeky grin across your face.

“Are you going to join us today?” Regulus arrived from the dining room, waving his hand to follow him.

You joined your families at the table, quickly diving into the food, trying to avoid any awkward conversation. As you looked up at Sirius, his cold expression and blank eyes reminded you of the rumours you heard about his relationship with his family. He was distant and almost robotic.

“Darling, how’s school been?” Walburga turned to you with a sweet, but very clearly phony expression.

“It’s been going well, thank you for asking. I’m certainly not going to be a potions master, but I’m doing rather well in all my other classes,” you replied with a genuine smile, feeling proud of your achievements.

“That’s wonderful, dear,” she smiled as she turned to your mother. “You have got a beautiful and very intelligent child on your hand, love. You must be very proud of her,” she added. Your mom quickly tapped her lips with a napkin, ready to answer.

“Indeed. She is making us very proud,” she replied as she turned to you and offered you a loving, happy smile. “But I’m sure you are just as proud. You have two amazing sons who I hear seem to do quite well in school and part of the quidditch team of their houses as well,” she added, the information you have shared with her finally becoming useful.

“Regulus is indeed doing very well. Top grades of his year and it seems he will soon be captain of the quidditch team,” she added with a proud smile, but then the conversation turned into an awkward silence as Walburga decided not to mention Sirius. As you looked at the boy, he was wearing the same cold expression, slightly more annoyed than before as he rolled his eyes.

You wanted to tell him to ignore his mother’s mean behaviour, but you didn’t have the right to. You didn’t know much about their relationship and you certainly didn’t have a friendship of any kind with Sirius.

Instead, you heaved a deep sigh, swallowed hard and concentrated back on your meal.

The dinner didn’t last long, soon you found yourself in the living room, sipping on a cup of tea, your parents having an utterly boring conversation with the Blacks.

“Mom, would you please excuse me?” you asked as you placed your cup and saucer on the table in front of you.

“Of course, darling, go ahead,” she smiled and continued her conversation with Walburga.

You stood up from your seat and looked over at Sirius who seemed even more miserable than you. It was clearly painted across his face that he didn’t want to be there, let alone listen to the conversation your parents were having.

“Mrs. Black, would you mind if I stole Sirius for a second?” you asked. The woman looked at her son, slight disappointment across her face, but then she nodded reluctantly.

“Not at all, sweetheart,” she shook her head. Sirius looked at you with a frown across his face as he stood and followed you out of the house, straight to the garden.

“Why would you do that?” he asked, furrowing his brows.

“You couldn’t look any more miserable sitting there,” you shrugged.

“Thanks,” he scoffed as he took a seat on a bench beside the wall. You sat down next to him, a slightly awkward silence distancing the two of you as you kept your eyes busy, looking around the carefully planted flowers your mother felt so proud of.

“You know, this is not the Black I’m used to,” you added as you grew tired of the silence.

“Why, what did you expect?” he tilted his head backwards, looking up at the darkness, stars lighting up the sky.

“I don’t really know. In school you are cocky, unpredictable and not to mention annoying at all times,” you scoffed as you remembered how many times you wanted to wrap your fingers around his neck and squeeze it, just a little. “But here you are like this sample boy. Quiet and well behaved, but most of all cold,” he grimaced at your words, which you weren’t sure how to take at first.

“My parents hate me, how else am I supposed to behave? I don’t plan to fuel the fire any more than it already is,” he replied with a serious expression.

“Well, I know my words don’t mean much, but if it’s worth even a bit, I prefer the Sirius I go to school with,” you shrugged casually, trying not to reveal your crush on him, but still trying to be honest. When Sirius started smiling, you couldn’t stop yourself from mirroring his expression.

“Huh, so you don’t hate me that much after all,” he snickered proudly, his usually cocky smirk painted across his face once again.

“I never hated you. I just can’t stand you,” you added as you turned away from the boy, trying to hide your blushing cheeks.

He leaned forward, attempting to catch a glimpse of your face, but you carefully looked anywhere except him. “Then why are you blushing?” he chuckled as your head shot up, looking straight into his grey eyes that seemed even darker under the moonlight. He must have understood your confusion. “Your ears are bright red,” he added with a cheeky wink.

You groaned, feeling annoyed both because of your own obvious behaviour and his impeccable sight. “I’m just feeling warm,” you tried to save the situation which earned you a sceptical look from Sirius before it quickly turned into a barking laughter.

“I’m sure that’s true. Especially because there are goosebumps all over your arm,” he chuckled as he bit into his lower lip, your eyes immediately focusing on his movement. You scolded yourself inside for your silly behaviour and folded your arms in front of your chest as you turned away from the boy, quietly sulking.

He took off his suit jacket and placed it on your back, his scent finding its way into your nostrils almost immediately. It was warm and soft, and it smelled like him. You looked at the boy with a questioningly raised brow, not knowing how to take it.

“What? I can’t possibly have a beautiful lady freezing to death beside me,” he shrugged nonchalantly with a mischievous smile playing in the corner of his mouth.

“Beautiful lady?” you asked, scepticism clear in your tone. “When in the last 5 minutes did I become a beautiful lady?” you snorted in disbelief, ignoring how un-ladylike it was.

“You have always been beautiful,” he added casually as if the words were more familiar to him than to you. You frowned at his unusual behaviour, complimenting each other was not something you often or ever did.

“Are you sick? Are you under some kind of a potion? Blink twice if you are,” you nagged him, causing a silent laughter to erupt from his lungs.

“I’m perfectly fine. You know, just because people don’t say something out loud, it doesn’t mean they don’t think it,” he said.

“Okay- thanks, I guess,” you tried to find the right words to say.

“Not a problem,” he smiled proudly.

Once again, an awkward silence fell on the pair of you, but this time you couldn’t possibly break it. His unusual behaviour made you feel wary and you weren’t sure what would be the best way to strike up a conversation.

“Did I make you feel awkward?” he asked, his eyes focused on the dark sky and the small little stars painted across it.

“I wouldn’t say you made me feel awkward, but I certainly didn’t expect any positive comment from you,” you shrugged casually, trying to play it cool. Your heart was pulsing loudly in your ears, your throat dried out, but you couldn’t have given even a hint of the effects he had on you.

“Hey, I’m not that bad,” he groaned.

“I’m not saying you are, but we are always bickering about some silly thing that I can’t even remember because it’s always so meaningless, so for you to say that I’m beautiful, it was certainly unexpected,” you explained.

“Well, I can’t possibly tell you how pretty you are in the middle of our little arguments.”

“Actually, you could,” you snickered, which made him chuckle as he watched your playful expression.

“Now that you mention it, if I used it before, you might have shut up quicker,” he snorted as he saw your face turn into an expression that clearly screamed how badly you wanted to hex him.

“You are going too far, Black,” you added.

“Isn’t that what we usually do?” he asked wriggling his brows, making you chuckle.

“What was that creepy move?” you asked, trying to silence your laughter.

“My signature move,” he winked. “Girls, love it.”

“Sure, if you want to scare them away,” you huffed, but you couldn’t remove the smile from your face.

“We could have done this sooner, you know,” he stated, making you feel confused.

“What do you mean?” you asked.

“Have a normal conversation without you getting mad at me?” he grinned.

“I wouldn’t get mad at you if you didn’t behave like a complete idiot,” you shrugged, your smile still hiding in the corner of your lips.

“Fair enough,” he chuckled. “But then how else would I catch my crush’s attention?” he raised a questioning brow. For a second you thought you heard it wrong, for a second you thought you were hallucinating. His words seemed too unreal.

“You what?” you attempted to word your confusion.

“How else did you expect me to get your attention?” he chuckled playfully, his own words making him feel lighter.

“Why would you want to catch my attention?” you asked dumbfounded.

“Have you even heard what I said?'' he laughed watching the confused expression across your face. “I will help you out. I just said I wanted to catch my crush’s attention. My crush would be you. Do you need any further explanation?” he chuckled playfully as your face grew even more confused. As if your brain was unable to process his words. Even your own brain couldn’t believe what he said. But your heart, your heart was beating dangerously as the words left his mouth as if they needed no further explanation.

“You like me?” you asked, clearly needing more to go on.

“I have fancied you since forever,” he smiled as he scooted closer to you on the bench. “I wasn’t sure if you liked me, you always got mad at me. But then sometimes you gave me these mixed signals and I couldn’t place it anywhere,” he shook his head scoffing. “Up until I overheard Lily’s conversation with James, and it felt like hope,” he raised a questioning brow, waiting for you to put the puzzles together, but you remained silent.

He turned his complete torso towards you, watching your profile as he tucked a loose hair behind your ear. You felt your face heat up, but you didn’t turn away. You knew you were exposed, but you still didn’t know how to react. You looked at the boy, his grey eyes eagerly waiting for you to say something.

“What do you want me to say?” you asked. “You already know, don’t you?” you turned away as you heaved a deep sigh.

“I just overheard a conversation, that means nothing,” he shook his head, disputing. “Look at me, please,” he asked as he gently got hold of your jaw and turned you back. “Do you like me?” he asked, wasting no time.

You wanted to say no, you still couldn’t believe his words. Your constant bickering has been ongoing for so long, that it just didn’t make sense. But then something had changed in you too. You didn’t know when you started having feelings for him, but it just happened. However, accepting your own feelings seemed more reasonable than his.

“I’m being honest. I do like you. I have for quite a while,” his eyes didn’t lie. He looked at you with a warm, loving expression and although it was hard to believe his words, his gaze couldn’t have lied.

You let out a deep breath as you composed yourself, preparing for the worst. Maybe it was a prank, and he was going to laugh, maybe he was just joking with your feelings, maybe he made a silly bet with someone. You didn’t know what to expect, but every possible negative outcome went through your head ringing an alarm.

You looked down at your lap, playing with your hands nervously. “I do like you,” you whispered, your tone uncertain and barely audible. You collected all the bravery you could find within you and looked up at him. A gentle, warm smile spread across his face as he lifted one of your hands and cupped it in his, warming up your cold skin. His genuine expression reassured you with a simple look at him. The whole boy seemed so happy, he couldn’t have played the part that well. It felt unreal, as if a dream of yours came true, but you couldn’t possibly feel happier.

“So, if I ask you to go out with me, would I get a yes?” he asked as his smile grew wider.

“I guess, you would have to ask me first,” you chuckled, making him huff playfully.

“Okay, so, would you like to go out with me?” he asked confidently and for a second you left him hanging, as if you were debating your options.

“I guess that could be arranged,” you replied which made him shake his head as he pulled you into a hug, his arms wrapped around your shoulders, his face hidden in your neck. As he pulled away, he stopped a few inches away from your face, his eyes wandering between your eyes and lips, his intentions screaming obviousness.

“I- Can I kiss you?” he asked, the unusual uncertainty in his voice making you braver this time.

“I don’t know, can you?” you asked back, clearly catching him off guard. But soon his surprised expression turned into a cheeky grin.

“Well, I could,” he smirked, but didn’t move.

“Then I guess the question is, will you?” you added playfully, trying to guide him to the right direction, hoping for him to finally make that last step.

“Would you like me to?” he played along, but this time you started losing your patience.

“For Merlin’s sake, just kiss me already!” you instructed him, huffing, both of you laughing silently, before he placed his hands on each side of your neck and pulled you closer to him, attaching his lips to yours finally.

As if you have been waiting forever, it felt like pure satisfaction, warm, happy and safe. Sirius felt like a safe place that you didn’t know you needed, but now that you were there, you couldn’t even think of ever letting go. You fit into each other’s embrace so perfectly, it felt like a dream.

…

Your body was sweating, your head was spinning as you slowly opened your eyes. A wet towel was carefully placed on your forehead which fell down into your lap as you slowly pushed yourself up into a seated position.

As you looked around you recognised the hospital wing of Hogwarts, the metal frame of the bed creaking as you moved around. You pulled the cover off your body and placed your feet on the cold floor, hissing at the uncomfortable feeling. But before you could have gotten out of bed, the door opened, and a blonde-haired girl walked into the infirmary, reading a newspaper.

“Marlene?” you asked. She looked up from her book and gave you a confused look.

“What are you doing? Madam Pomfrey said you should rest. You got hit pretty badly,” she added as she sat down beside you.

“What are you talking about?” you frowned in confusion.

“You got hit by a bludger and passed out. Do you not remember?” you shook your head in a reply.

“And what about Sirius?” you asked, clinging onto the only recent memory you could remember.

“What are you talking about? You hate Sirius,” she furrowed her brows as she watched your face fall.

You felt like you couldn’t breathe, like you have been kicked in the gut and kneed in the chest. Air didn’t seem to want to leave or enter your body as you finally understood that it was all a dream. A wishful thinking that you knew too well would never happen. There was no way Sirius would ever look at you that way and to realise it after you woke up from a dream that quite possibly felt like the best thing that happened to you in awhile, it was heart-breaking.

“I do,” you replied as you tried to hold back the tears that threatened to roll down your cheeks and reveal your well-hidden secret. You felt so stupid, so naive for thinking about having a shot at the coolest boy of the school, but most of all, you hated yourself for having such a vivid dream. A dream that you knew will always remain only a dream.

Notes 2: If you enjoyed reading this little piece, please don’t forget to leave a like, comment and/or reblog. Your opinion matters and gives us motivation. Thank you ^^

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bardstales · 2 years ago

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𝐀𝐑𝐂𝐇𝐀𝐄𝐎𝐋𝐎𝐆𝐘

this verse is suitable for interactions in most “modern day” universes, and especially in fandoms like unch.arted.

doctor iain brightmore is a prominent, if eccentric, archaeologist with a specialization in iron age cultures. when his niece elsie is orphaned by a plane crash at the age of nine, he doesn’t hesitate to adopt her. from that point on, elsie is raised mostly on the move, traipsing through ruins, exploring passage tombs, seeking out temples, and getting her hands dirty through all of it. she quickly develops a sense of burning curiosity and a passion for the human story. the older she gets, the more of an active role she takes in her uncle’s work, helping in both trench and laboratory. when she turns fifteen, her uncle iain ( apparently inexplicably ) changes their routine. he begins only going on digs during peak season, the summer, and he stops bringing her along. he insists she needs to focus harder on her schoolwork, that she’s not quite cut out for the field. elsie takes his pretty hard but is determined to make him proud, throwing herself into her studies. she completes secondary school, completes a bachelor’s degree in anthropology, and completes a master’s degree in comparative mythology; now she’s studying for a doctorate in the same field while working as a teaching assistant to an archaeology professor. her relationship with her uncle iain is warm but distant, and she’s never gotten a clear answer as to why it developed like that. currently she lives on her own in a flat in london, with her cat and her many, many books.

frequent flyers include @traumadcmp & @lokadottr !!

#v.

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m-bardbattled · 3 years ago

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VERSE EDITS : THE ARCHAEOLOGIST !

after being orphaned at nine, elsie is raised by her uncle iain brightmore, a specialist in iron age cultures. she grew up in forests and trenches and roman ruins, and developed a burning curiosity about the human story. she graduated with a master's degree in comparative mythology, and is pursuing a doctorate in the same field whilst working as a teaching assistant. she lives in an apartment with her cat sigeberht. / suitable for interactions in most "modern" universes.

psd.

#VERSES.#♫ archaeology ›› IT’S PROBABLY RITUAL.#( this is the 'puffin is an archaeology student so let them live their dreams' au )

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fuckyeah-dragrace · 4 years ago

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Kaijudo Headcanon #2

Master Brightmore will never touch coffee, like ever.

One time Hector asked for Nigel to pass him the coffee pot and he just stood there and stared.

#kaijudo #Kaijudo duel masters #Headcanon #this actually happened #Kaijudo headcanon #Should I make this a series?

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sanguinesacrament · 4 years ago

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Okay hi so I think this actually raised interest, thank you guys askeh--I have Big Feelings so sorry if I ramble

You know I’m a sucker for monster + human romance anyway, just a bonus to this. But. Nigel. YEAH THIS IS ABOUT NIGEL. UGH. OKAY LISTEN-- We knoooow he has his hang up on the “m O N sterS arE DanGEROUs ANd NEeD to be C O N T R O L L ED.” I won’t spoil stuff from the show but,,,he does get Better about that/on that front.

Again, I think Sanguis has already had decent contact with the Masters. As the local force of darkness not that anybody needs to know who in their own realm had a rivalry with a light creature--they probably love giving Nigel a hard time. Like just teasing him a bit for being uptight, undermining him a little when he tries to put them in their place in a social situation.

--And how couldn’t they? It’s in their nature, and honestly, like I’ve said, life in the human realm has taught them how to REALLY live. What it’s like to be surrounded by friends, to ride fast, to laugh and let themself be in the moment.

Once Nigel changes his views (and after plot things from the show that will definitely NOT make Sanguis like him), and he finds out what they really are--I imagine him opening up a bit. He always...knew them as a person, why should they be any less of one to him now. And when he sees how in love Sanguis is with humanity, with living--how this kaiju is so full of an appreciation for the world and all it offers, hell, even moreso that HE seems to...how does his heart not melt?

There’s just such a fun ‘opposites attract’ thing to it. Sanguis a force of playful disorder, Nigel is rigidity and order. They both have qualities the other admires and they shake up the way the other behaves. Who else would walk behind Master Brightmore and blow on his hair so it’s in disarray then walk off giggling? And who else would tell Sanguis to slow down? I’m. I’m alright,,,I promise.....

#;ooc #turns into a pile of mush #KAIJU SANGUIS GIVES ME MORE EMOTIONS

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sonicasura · 6 months ago

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In the Kajudo: Rise of the Duel Masters X Trollhunters Crossover, do any of the Duel Masters get to Rule #3 anyone?

Chavez by Jim and Brightmore with Ray. The first one is during a lesson on how to interrupt opponent summoners. Jim was a volunteered combatant who had to keep Chavez from summoning Gilaflame for 5 minutes and our boy took the opportunity to teach the younger acolytes rule three.

Ray, Gabe and Allie approve of the tactic like the chaotic middle school students they are. Something that led to the same rule being reenacted for a different variation of the lesson. Ray had to beat Brightmore in a spar for a review on summoner interruption.

He went straight for rule 3 when Bob/Tatsurion was getting overwhelmed by Ra-Vu. A crude tactic but it made the man drop his guard enough for Ray's partner to turn the tables thanks to the interruption. Brightmore rather not mention that lesson again after passing the young acolyte.

#sonicasura #sonicasura answers #asks #cf8wrk4u us #trollhunters #tales of arcadia #toa trollhunters #tales of arcadia trollhunters #toa #kaijudo #kaijudo cartoon #kaijudo tv show #kaijudo series #kaijudo the card game #kaijudo rise of the duel masters #kaijudo clash of the duel masters

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preserving-ferretbrain · 6 years ago

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Sarah Monette, the Victim Dilemma, the Aesthetic of Suffering and the Uncanny Valley of Arse Rape

by Wardog

Monday, 27 April 2009

Wardog fails to finish Sarah Monette's Corambis.~

Massive massive massive massive spoilers for about 1/3 of the book. Also, as the title suggests, this article is about nasty things so don’t read if you’re likely to be upset

Preramble (like a preamble but … d’you see?)

This is a bleak day indeed. I just got my hands on a copy of Corambis, the much-anticipated (by me at least) concluding part to Sarah Monette’s Doctrine of Labyrinths quartet and the truth of it is, I don’t think I can finish it.

Oh, Sarah, what happened? I do still love you, I just don’t think it’s working out.

I think it’s partially problems associated with reading through a series over a lengthy period of time. When I read Melusine, The Virtu was already out in hardback and I tore through at them enthusiastically, so drawn into the world and the characters that I barely noticed they were so heavily saturated in angst and woe that one could drown in it by simply opening the book a little recklessly. There was a bit of a wait for The Mirador – which I seem to recall I felt slightly less positively about but still adored – and I fell upon Mehitabel Parr’s I’m sure welcoming bosom to save me from the tidal waves of A&W. As much as I love Felix and Mildmay, it was Mehitabel’s narrative voice that made The Mirador bearable for me. It was such a necessary contrast to the boys: someone with some redeeming sense of self-irony, hurrah!

Of course, Mehitabel isn’t in Corambis. And, God, I miss her. There is a new viewpoint character, Kay Brightmore, blinded and imprisoned and weighed down by the terrible military failure that kicks off the book. He’s basically lost everything that ever mattered to him, can no longer fight on account of being blind and, needless to say, he has angst out the wazoo about it. I was broken and crying by Chapter three.

And, quite frankly, I just can’t take it. I know there is redemption in the future of these characters (characters I really care about, having spent three books with them), I know there is self-actualisation and the potential for happiness, I know because I cheated and looked, but I’ve really really struggled with Corambis. The worst of it is, I’m sure it will be a triumphant and satisfying conclusion to the quartet. Sarah Monette is an excellent writer, I love her world, I love the way she uses language, I love her characters, I love everything about her but I think I’m going to have to accept the fact I simply can’t read her.

Oh, Sarah, what happened? I do still love you, it’s not you, it’s me.

Maybe in a couple of years we’ll be able to work something out.

I think circumstances might be playing into this unhappy state of affairs as well. When I read the early books, there wasn’t a cloud in my sky. But having emerged from a rather bleak year, there’s something a little too close in all that guilt and grief and self-loathing and despair, and I can’t distance myself enough from it to enjoy it. There is a systematic aestheticisation of suffering to be found in all of Monette’s books. I’m not going to try and argue that as either a positive or negative quality in her work. I think it’s probably neutral: it’s

something

art

does

sometimes

. I acknowledge the difference between literary suffering and real suffering, in that there can be a romance in the former which is impossible in the latter. Also literary suffering exists in a wider, symbolic and allegorical sphere than that of an individual having shitty things done to them by life or others, mainly, I suspect, because it’s not real. Take madness – there is something deeply attractive and romantic about the artistic representation of madness (like Felix’s madness in Melusine) and it’s perfectly possible to appreciate that, and to find in it a kind of beauty, without ignoring the genuine distress suffered by the mentally ill. In short, Ophelia is not my friend who killed herself last year.

But the boundaries between the fictional and the real are not comprehensively signposted. There isn’t a traceable spectrum between Lavinia, daughter of Titus Andronicus, and Elizabeth Short. And ultimately I think there comes an impossible point when the literary and the real collide, corrupt each other and prove they are utterly irreconcilable and yet simultaneously inseparable. Yes, they must be understood as different things operating in a different way – a painting of St Sebastian is not the same as footage of the prisoners at Guantanamo bay – but there comes a point when it is necessary to remember what it is that’s being aestheticised and ask yourself why.

Page 152

Okay, so, there’s a gang-rape scene in Corambis.

Felix – former prostitute, broken gay wizard with ex-cruel master and traumatic past - ends up subjecting himself a thaumaturgic orgy in order to earn money to pay for his ailing brother’s medicine.

It’s awful.

It’s not that it’s explicit, just awful.

And I’m no wuss, okay. I’ve read Last Exit to Brooklyn. I’ve read The Wasp Factory. I’ve read American Psycho.

But something about this scene in this book bought me a first class ticket on the ARGH! Train and whizzed me straight out of my comfort zone.

It’s strange to say that something is “outside your comfort zone” in that it feels like a confession of personal failure (also something that’s outside my comfort zone). And then I thought about it more, and I thought: hey, so what, gang-rape is outside my comfort zone. Surely that’s normal. Gang-rape is absolutely something that should be outside all our comfort zones. But here’s where it gets complicated: in fact, fictional gang-rape is not outside my comfort zone. I play H-games, for God’s sake, where they’re ten a penny. You can’t take two steps in an H-game without stubbing your toe on a gang rape. So it’s something more specific than that. It was something about this particular portrayal of it.

It’s not shock value. Felix gets himself sexually abused on a pretty regular basis, so much so, in fact, that it’s kind of part of the fun, and it’s very much tied into Monette’s aesthetic of suffering.

I could not see, and I could barely hear, save for my own harsh breathing. But I could feel. I could Malkar’s hands like silk, running up and down my back, tracing the scars, the old palimpsest of pain. I could feel his body arching against me, his bulk, his heat. I felt his hands slide under my hips, stroking, exciting, felt the stiffness of him against my thigh. Pain, then, but not too much. Pain … and arousal all woven together like a tapestry. I was moaning, gasping; the only word I could form were “Please, Malkar, please, lease,” and I didn’ tknow if I was begging him to stop or continue. Not that it would made the slightest difference either way.

Let’s pin our colours to the mast here. That’s beautiful. Terrible, but beautiful and absolutely literary in its unrealness. It’s also about as accurate a portrayal of sexual abuse than St Sebastian up there is of martyrdom. Perhaps I’m just an irredeemable sicko but I’m pretty sure it’s there, to an extent, to be enjoyed, partially as spectacle (straight women do not generally write about beautiful gay boys sexing each other manipulatively because it’s a Serious Social Issue) and, also, partially as vindication for all the crappy things that have been done to innumerable female characters in a seventy years of fantasy fiction. I’m not, of course, advocating backlash (more manrape!) but there is something compelling and, even perhaps comforting, in characters like Felix, Alec and friends, these beautiful men, who are as sexually vulnerable as women, suffer and fear the sort of things women suffer and fear, and are very much created to be subjects of an extra-textual female gaze and the intra-textual male gaze. I’m not saying that men don’t get raped and looked at, but the sheer saturation is demonstrably less. I am not trying to say that what happens to Felix at the start of Melusine isn’t dreadful. It is. But it’s a literary violation, and it reduces him to a literary madness that is as terrible and as beautiful as the horror that creates it.

But let’s talk about gang rape. Now there’s something you don’t say everyday.

The scene itself written in a very similar style – opulent, not too explicit although more explicit than above, and contains the same awkward issues of dubious consent. In Melusine, Felix chooses to go to Malkar in a fit of self loathing. In Corambis he agrees theoretically to an orgy in order to raise money for Mildmay’s medical treatment. In both cases what ends up happening to him is far more devastating than what he originally signed up for but, equally, there’s an element of complicity to it. If you return to your abusive master, expect to get abused. If you agree to be the centerpiece of an orgy, expect to get fucked. This abject stupidity is granted a psychological plausibility because Felix is a messed up little bunny, with a supposedly tragic conviction of his own profound worthlessness.

Obviously I don’t want to get into real issues here, but I think the reason the dubious consent became one of the bothering aspects of the scene in Corambis is that the sex abuse came plot-approved. I mean, if Felix was walking down the street and happened to get jumped and gang raped by a bunch of guys I think many a reader might rightly cry “Sarah Monette, what the fuck?” as there are very few occasions in which it is either appropriate or necessary to get one of your characters gang raped. But this way he has a “real” reason to put himself voluntarily into a position where he might be. It’s even, perhaps, meant to be on some level noble – in a hopelessly fucked up way, of course. So what you end up with is a deeply uncomfortable situation in which everything conspires, including (conveniently) Felix himself, to create a scenario in which a horrible but beautifully written gang rape is, to an extent, okay. And this is where the aesthetic of suffering starts to come apart at the seams.

Essentially this scene falls right into the uncanny valley. If it was purely designed for titillation I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but as it is there are elements are titillation and elements of horror. We are meant to be shocked and appalled – and it is shocking and appalling – but it’s framed in such a way that we are simultaneously liberated to relish the aesthetic. And quite frankly that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think there’s something profoundly hypocritical and, indeed, deeply disturbing in the idea of enjoying both moral outrage and illicit sexual excitement (see Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse). The scene bears all the hallmarks of erotic non-con (there are elements of psychological exposure as well as physical, the victim is physically aroused throughout, the abusers are appreciative of his beauty and his apparent eagerness, and so on and so forth) but worked through a guilt-appeasing filter of “oh gosh, isn’t this terrible.”

My ankles were still chained and somebody had me scruffed like a kitten; I was keening in protest, but I was dragged upright, forced to straddle someone’s thighs, while he continued fucking me with the same relentless steadiness. I was displayed for all of them, my arousal jutting out shamelessly, the tear tracks on my face attesting to my weakness.

Now, I know that, unlike erotic non-con, Felix is not secretly into what’s being done to him and that he’s breaking and being broken here but you still have a scene that’s running in two directions simultaneously and trying to have its cake and eat it. It goes out of its way to tick the non-con wink-wink boxes but then slaps you face in the face with its insistence that this a terrible and traumatic event. Essentially you can’t have a gorgeously written gang rape that positions itself within a carefully constructed aesthetic framework and a psychologically accurate and traumatic portrait of a terrible ordeal.

And, ultimately, I guess you have to ask yourself if it’s okay to have an aesthetic gang rape scene full stop. The idea bothers me less as pornography but here, I would argue, that it gains an added erotic piquancy from the fact it really is annihilating Felix, which, again is troublesome. Essentially it’s why raping Clarissa is so much more interesting than raping Justine, and why it’s all right to get off on the latter and not the former.

The more I’ve thought about this and tried to articulate my issues with it, the more complex and convoluted it has become. There is, of course, an element of the purely personal about – I didn’t like it and it upset me – as well as these more abstract, intellectualizations of it. I dug around on Monette’s Livejournal – on which is usually charming and sensible – to see what I could find and, lo and behold, she has written quite comprehensively on the subject, which I shall now quote pretty much in its entirety:

I knew from very early on that Felix was going to turn back to prostitution to get the money for a doctor for someone he loved (I knew this was going to happen before I knew Mildmay existed), and I knew that he was going to end up in a situation that was completely out of his control and that hurt him badly. Because Felix is reckless and self-destructive and because under all his vanity, he doesn't think he's worth protecting. And because it is a kind of answering horror to his being raped by Malkar at the beginning of Mélusine. And because he needed something that would force him to confront these issues--force him to see that he doesn't deserve to be abused--and it had to be something superlatively unbearable if it was going to get through to him, because Felix has way too much experience at ignoring his own pain.

Say what? So it’s redemptive gang rape, the sort makes you a stronger and better person? What … the … fuck? It’s like those Hollywood amnesia plotlines (one blow to the head gives you amnesia, another blow cures it) except with sexual abuse. I know, again, we’re operating in a fictional sphere but this is so made of wrong that I’ll just content myself with linking to Dan’s article on

the victim dilemma

and throw my hands up in despair.

I quite enjoy Monette’s aestheticisation of suffering, I could probably navigate the uncanny valley if I really had to but I am sick to death of male fantasy writers using sexual abuse as a textual shortcut for character development and I’m damned if I’m going to deal with women doing the same thing. Sarah Monette, you are better than this.

Sexual abuse is not good for you. It happens and people react. Constantly depicting characters who react to it in courageous and life-enhancing ways is not empowering, it’s fucking demeaning to people who struggle along every day as best they can.

I’m sure in a different time in a different mood I’ll pick up Corambis again and I’ll get to page 152 and I’ll shrug and go “gang rape, meh” and read right on.

But not today.Themes:

Damage Report

Books

Sarah Monette

Sci-fi / Fantasy

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~Comments (

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Arthur B

at 14:44 on 2009-04-27It's depressing when series go south like this. It's especially annoying when they burn down the virtues of the earlier volumes. I was looking at your first Monette review and you were saying how you were impressed by the fact that Felix was gay, but it kind of wasn't a big deal; I'm getting the impression that as the series goes on that becomes less true, since that LJ extract makes it sounds like Monette intended all along to reduce Felix to a weepy gay man being abused by angry gay men. (If I'm interpreting that right - if Felix pimping himself out predates the existence of Mildmay, that means that Monette was planning to make this happen since before the first book, right?)

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Wardog

at 15:11 on 2009-04-27Mmm, that's part of the problem though. I don't actually think it's "gone south" - despite the Xtreme angst I was quite absorbed until page 152. It was merely that scene that tripped me out. I'm sure if I could put it behind me and just get on with the book, I'd probably really like it.

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Rude Cyrus

at 20:32 on 2009-04-27Great, now I need a shower.

While I suppose rape can be presented as being aesthetically pleasing, like in erotic non-con, I still don't like it. I've always found consenting sex between happy, willing partners infinitely more pleasurable -- don't ask me why. This sort of stuff just makes my skin crawl.

What's funny is that I can make it through The 120 Days of Sodom without blinking, but I think that's because De Sade insisted on using the driest, most tortured language possible.

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Wardog

at 21:15 on 2009-04-27Sorry Cyrus. I'm not sure but I think it's probably easier to be into erotic non-con / rape fantasy if you're a woman than a man, either because you're more likely to imagine yourself as the rapee rather than the rapist which is slightly easier to deal with morally speaking or because the world seems generally reluctant to admit that women can rape people too. Whereas if you're a man who fantasies about forcing women to have sex with him ... well ... hostility many ensue from quarters unwilling to concede the very real difference between fantasy, reality and simulated non-con.

Hmm, I think the thing about 120 Days of Sodom is that, as you say, it's incredibly dull. And de Sade is a terrible writer. There's only one thing worse than a rape scene and that's a badly written rape scene!

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Arthur B

at 21:18 on 2009-04-27I do wonder sometimes whether deSade was an early pen-and-paper troll. Most of his books seem to be the literary equivalent of telling someone a particular link goes to an interesting and thought-provoking philosophy website when actually it points to goatse or 2girls1cup.

I mean, he went to jail for it, but you have to make sacrifices for "the lulz", as I believe the young people call it these days.

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http://roisindubh211.livejournal.com/

at 02:43 on 2009-04-28"Constantly depicting characters who react to it in courageous and life-enhancing ways is not empowering, it’s fucking demeaning to people who struggle along every day as best they can."

I have to disagree here- not with the point you make, but with the accusation being levelled at Monette. Felix has spent three books getting abused and every reaction to it has been, basically, "I was right all along, I am worthless. Hmmm, should I hurt myself again or just re-alienate everyone who cares about me tonight?" The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts, and it isn't the only influence on his growth as a person. A lot has to do with having Mildmay -who has been developing his own self-confidence, on his own, without the help of shitty things happening to him- be there for him and push and push to get him (Felix) not to hurt himself any more.

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Wardog

at 09:13 on 2009-04-28

The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts, and it isn't the only influence on his growth as a person.

I do see your point and I wasn't really dissing Monette, who I actually adore. There was just something about this scene, or the way it was presented, or *something* that was a bridge too far for me. And at first I was inclined to just ignore it and tell myself to stop being a wuss and then I got interested in *why* this scene was so problematic and, secondarily, I realised that, on a wider level, it should probably be okay to stand up and say "for me, this gang rape is not okay."

I will at some point finish Corambis, because I have *hugely* enjoyed the Doctrine of Labyrinths quartet (I have some reviews knocking around here in which I give much sweet sweet love), I think I just need some time to get away from the gang rape.

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Wardog

at 09:29 on 2009-04-28

I do wonder sometimes whether deSade was an early pen-and-paper troll

Dan and I like the idea of historical trolls, and also explains the Marquis far more than most of pop-psych nonsense I've read does =P

Lucifer, of course, would be the first troll - complaining about the mods.

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http://miss-morland.livejournal.com/

at 11:54 on 2009-04-28*giggles at the thought of de Sade and Lucifer as trolls*

I haven't read Monette's books, but I still found this post very interesting - it articulates my issues with non-con and dub-con in fiction very well. (I do wonder, though, if ambiguous portrayals of rape scenes are sometimes meant to make the readers think and question their own attitudes, instead of jumping to the safe reaction of 'OMG so horrible'?)

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Dan H

at 14:25 on 2009-04-28

I do wonder, though, if ambiguous portrayals of rape scenes are sometimes meant to make the readers think and question their own attitudes, instead of jumping to the safe reaction of 'OMG so horrible'?)

You might well be right, but even if that is the intent, it's a deeply flawed one.

Perhaps I'm just an arrogant shit, but I really hate it when people try to make me think about stuff unless it's in a medium *specifically designed* for that.

If you want to challenge my preconceptions about rape, write a book that is *about* challenging my preconcieved notions about rape. Don't try to do it in the middle of a fantasy series that is mostly about hot gay wizards gettin' it on.

If I want to have my ideas about absuse challenged, I'll read Lolita, or possibly I'll track down some abuse-survivors' weblogs. I won't read an otherwise ordinary fantasy novel or, for that matter, watch

Dollhouse

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Dan H

at 16:05 on 2009-04-28

The enormity of the gang-rape is something he's not prepared to consider his just desserts

I can't speak for Kyra, but the problem I have with this is that it suggests, falsely, that the more traumatic an experience is the less likely you are to blame yourself for it. I'm by no means an expert on the subject of abuse survival but from my limited experience people's tendency to self-blame for things is wholly unrelated to the severity of the abuse suffered. For that matter, the whole idea of rating abuse experiences in order of severity is a bit of a dodgy precedent.

Essentially I think there's an important, and worrying, difference between "Felix has experienced things like this before but, because he has grown as a person, and because of the influence of Mildmay, he does not blame himself for this experience" and "Felix has experienced things like this before but, because this experience is so much worse than the others, he cannot blame himself for it".

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http://sistermagpie.livejournal.com/

at 21:38 on 2009-05-01I haven't read this last book yet, but I'm glad for the heads-up. Having read the other 3 I can definitely see how this kind of thing would play, and I'm not surprised that she'd planned something like this from the beginning. It does make you think thought, about the idea that this character is constantly going through situations like this, and it's finally when he acheives the kind of abuse he might have always thought would be what he deserved, that he realizes he didn't deserve it. Even if Mildmay and other experiences are also part of his turnaround, I don't know whether that kind of catalyst will click for me the way another one might.

Like, rather than having him be in a situatio that's the same as before, but with one clear difference that makes him see it clearly, it's almost like Helen Keller at the well. Repeated fingerspelling over and over and finally he gets it.

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Wardog

at 15:28 on 2009-05-11I lost this temporarily in the deluge of comments about other things.

It is possible I've over-reacted to the gang rape; I suppose responses to these sort of motifs are always going to be extremely personal. I feel almost hypocritical because, as you say, there's plenty of indication previously that we were on the Sex Abuse Superhighway and something like this was probably bound to happen. But the way it's framed and written, combinated with its narrative function as a catalyst for change really really squicked me out. I know it's not necessarily meant to be psychologically plausible but there's something deeply worrying in the idea that there is a scale of sexual abuse, the extreme end of which teaches you self respect.

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valse de la lune

at 14:04 on 2011-07-12I tracked down

this interview

and I'm now extremely, thoroughly grossed out with Sarah Monette:

I think this does happen to gay male protagonists (the most obvious example is Mercedes Lackey's Last Herald-Mage books). And I think Felix does fall into this trap to a certain extent, although in my defense I will say that the reason he gets raped is because I was interested in the tension inherent in a character who could be both rapist and victim. Which could have been a woman, or a heterosexual man, but it was most obvious and easiest to mobilize with a gay man. I also chose a gay male protagonist because my abiding interest is in the power dynamics of human relationships, especially sexual relationships, and it is VERY VERY HARD to write about that with a heterosexual female protagonist without pigeon-holing her and yourself into either a re-inscription of patriarchal gender roles (male dominant, female submissive) or a simple gender reversal (female dominant, male submissive) (which I did work with some in my novella, "A Gift of Wings," in The Queen in Winter). A lesbian relationship is also a possibility, but it's far more interesting and attention-grabbing to take power away from a man than it is to give power to a woman. [...] Also, because we live in a patriarchal society and have for several thousand years, there's nothing new or shocking about the idea that women are victims. (I'm not saying this is a good thing, mind you.) You can get more narrative charge out of victimizing a man and you aren't reinscribing the same old gender role patterns into that ever deeper groove of men act and women suffer.

What the fuck, Monette? My word, lesbian relationships aren't just ~hawt~ enough unlike slender

yaoi stereotypes

wizards sexing it up and... female empowerment is just too boring? Female victimization is just too

banal

to write about so gay men being degraded (and in this case, often raped by women) has more "narrative charge"? There's also something toward the end that basically goes "well, if you are writing about male rape it's super

titillating

shocking so people will recognize RAPE IS HORRIBLE whereas women being raped is just so

every day

so... hey, manpain! That'll get people

thinking

, right? Right!"

I don't know, all of this reads like the slash fangirl's justification why she's not interested in writing girls but wants to write hot boys instead, all disguised under a pretend layer of ~*soshul justeese*~.

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Wardog

at 23:33 on 2011-07-12Oh dear. I'm actually really annoyed with myself that it took me to Book IV to unpack what was going on with the, err, sexay mainpain and all the arse rape. I did quite like Monette initially - I think partially because when I first read Melusine I was still under the impression that gay characters were pretty rare in fantasy. To give Monette credit, when she actually bothers to be interested in them, she does write interesting female characters - I mean I *loved* Mehitabel from this series.

I think what freaks me out the most is that, as you observe, it's blatant titillation under the label of trangression. I have no problems with people getting their kicks from whatever they get their kicks from, as long as it's a carefully demarcated fantasy space, but pretending it's anything else is deeply toxic.

Also that interview was just awful :(

Maybe it's just because it doesn't apply to me but I don't understand why so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hawt but two women apparently tedious. Ho hum.

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valse de la lune

at 05:06 on 2011-07-13I think gay characters are still pretty rare in fantasy, but the gay dudes all seem to come from the same wellspring of fanfic tropes. I've read all the arguments as to why dudeslash is a female-positive space that enables women to explore their sexuality and I do get some of it, but I can't shake the feeling that so much of that is hot air; no matter how hard a slash fan argues I can't really see how spamming rape at gay dudes is particularly, y'know, feminist. Maybe it plays with power dynamics and whatnot but, on the other hand,

rape culture

I don't get the thing with YAY HAWT BOYS EWW GIRLS ARE BORING either, though it's been explained to me that most female characters aren't decently written so people'd sooner generate fanfic about boys instead. But that doesn't fly because fandom churns out great volumes of fanfic dedicated to minor male characters, even though some of them barely have a presence in the book/show/movie--see Figwit of the LOTR movies fame--whereas women, primary or tertiary, still get written out or villified. There are even

bingo cards

. Somewhere in that

a valid clause regarding how we're trained to look at media through male gateways thanks to patriarchy and we internalize that. Still don't get it on a personal level because I've always preferred female characters over male, but there it goes.

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Melissa G.

at 06:30 on 2011-07-13

Maybe it's just because it doesn't apply to me but I don't understand why so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hawt but two women apparently tedious. Ho hum.

Speaking as a straight woman who gets paid to translate yaoi, I can understand that pretty well. :-) It's not that I find girls boring as characters, but as someone who isn't sexually attracted to women, I find myself gravitating toward situations where I can look at/write about two sexy boys instead if I'm looking for smexy times. (Though I'm very, very picky these days about yaoi because of tropes I'm sure I've mentioned before.)

I feel some sympathy for Monette because I do have a hard time verbalizing my tastes without resorting to those same basic arguments about power play or feeling the need to judge the female character and how she is portrayed specifically because she's female (which I wish I didn't, but I do so...). What I find odd is the fact that everyone insists on asking me *why* I find male-on-male romance so appealing, and then I'm stuck in this hem-hawing, putting-on-airs defense because I'm too embarrassed to just go, "Two guys doing stuff to each other is hot?"

(Uh-oh, now I'm having Dorian Gray flashbacks. Oh, Ben Barnes, you scamp, you!!)

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Steve Stirling at 07:07 on 2011-07-13

I don't get the thing with YAY HAWT BOYS EWW GIRLS ARE BORING either

-- you get exactly the same in reverse from male writers a lot, so I don't see that there's any mystery about it.

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valse de la lune

at 07:20 on 2011-07-13I don't think Kyra's asking "why male-on-male?" but more "why do people find women inexplicably boring?"

but as someone who isn't sexually attracted to women, I find myself gravitating toward situations where I can look at/write about two sexy boys instead if I'm looking for smexy times.

That doesn't make sense to me because, even outside of sexual context, a lot of slashers just don't want to write women period and I'm sure we don't always only write about what's sexually/romantically attractive to us (or no straight man would ever write male characters).

It also doesn't really answer why women are so villified and hated by fandom at large: why people like Monette believe "it's more interesting to take power away from a man than to give power to a woman," or why slash is passed off as some wonderful female-positive space when it involves a lot of female-negative things, including but not limited to slut-shaming and othering women. Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

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Steve Stirling at 07:24 on 2011-07-13

I don't think Kyra's asking "why male-on-male?" but more "why do people find women inexplicably boring?"

-- I don't. I actually had to start flipping coins at one point to make sure my characters weren't predominantly female.

Maybe it's because I was in single-sex schools for a lot of my adolescence, but I just find women more interesting than men. More complex and variable, on average.

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Steve Stirling at 07:38 on 2011-07-13

Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

-- I don't read much (any, really) slash, but the actually-published equivalents like the book described here don't seem particularly misogynist to me. Just obsessed with Hot Boys in Chains.

As for the rape and stuff, a lot of people get off on that. Trying to tell people that the sexual fantasies which ring their chimes aren't permissible is roughly equivalent to trying to scold water until it voluntarily runs uphill. Much effort, little result.

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valse de la lune

at 07:45 on 2011-07-13

I don't. I actually had to start flipping coins at one point to make sure my characters weren't predominantly female.

Thank you, Minority Warrior, but if you are a bloke that's not exactly addressed to you.

I don't read much (any, really) slash, but the actually-published equivalents like the book described here don't seem particularly misogynist to me. Just obsessed with Hot Boys in Chains.

I've only read the first book and the gang-rape scene in the fourth, but a lot of the women in this series like to rape gay men for some strange reason.

Melusine

opens with an anecdote about the pure, true love between men. Two women get between it; one proceeds to rape one of the men repeatedly until he wants to kill himself. So, yes, both fandom slash and published slash perpetuate a lot of the same crap. Then there's Monette's interview and strange leaps of illogic which read sexist as hell to me.

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Melissa G.

at 08:48 on 2011-07-13

I can't speak to that. I don't know why so many writers are so anti-female characters, and it would take me pages of musing to try and come to a conclusion. I was referring specifically to sexual situations (by which I mean stories centering on sex) because the comment I was particularly responding to was "why do so many women find two dudes so unbelievably hot but two women apparently tedious". Which I read as "why do so many women love writing about two guys (sexually) but find writing about two women so boring (sexually)". Perhaps I misinterpreted what Kyra was saying. I stated clearly that I don't find women boring as characters to read and write about, but that I understand why many women gravitate toward male homosexual relationships and why they might find it arousing when they are writing merely to titillate themselves/others.

I haven't read the series in question so I take everyone's word for it that the rape isn't handled well and misogyny abounds. And trust me, I'm the first person to get fed up with the kind of tropes male-on-male stuff tends to come with - especially when written by someone who's probably never even spoken to a gay man before. I got fed up with one author in particular because her protagonists kept falling for their rapists, yuck. But just because a lot of it sucks and perpetuates some seriously shitty stuff doesn't mean that it's not okay to find guy-on-guy stuff hot. And I really don't appreciate being made to feel like because I like it, I am somehow in danger of losing my feminist card.

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valse de la lune

at 09:57 on 2011-07-13I don't think I have been suggesting that if you like slash, you're in danger of losing your feminist cred; being a feminist doesn't exactly mean everything you consume must be feminist, after all, and we all enjoy things that are problematic to some degree. I just don't like how it's put forward as a YAY WOMEN field when it's not really. Likewise, I've been shouted down in fandom spaces for calling out misogyny in slash, something along the line of

you will find it is you who is misogyny

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valse de la lune

at 10:06 on 2011-07-13(Sorry that I'm coming down harshly such that you feel you're being discredited as a feminist, though.)

One more thing--I've been told over and over that there is a strong presence of queer women in slash circles, so for some it's not so much a matter of "I'm straight so more cocks yay!!!" In fact, with so many queer women around--so many lesbians even--you'd think there would be more F/F fanfic. But there isn't, so...

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Melissa G.

at 10:23 on 2011-07-13

I don't think I have been suggesting that if you like slash, you're in danger of losing your feminist cred

I think I was responding defensively to this comment:

Ogle hot boys, whatever (but even so, why so much fucking rape all the fucking time? Why the infantilizing tropes?). But I think you can do that without contributing to misogyny and rape culture.

It basically felt to me like my entire sexual preference/fetish/whatever was being boiled down to "ogling hot boys". It’s those kinds of dismissive, judgmental comments that make me feel like I need to somehow justify what I find arousing. That’s why you have people arguing that it’s pro-women or empowering or whatever to write and read man-on-man love stories. When an attraction is called into question, I think often women in particular feel the need to base that attraction in something intellectual and philosophical. Because it would be wrong for a woman to just find something titillating or arousing. Because women aren’t supposed to like sex just for sex.

I think there are ways that it can be empowering (I wouldn't go so far as to say 'feminist'), but most of it fails in this regard. For me, when I read a story with a male bottom that I can relate to as far as sexual behavior, it makes me feel less weird. There's something freeing about the behavior being related to the position and not the gender, for me anyway. I think that also relates to why an author might find it more interesting (and by interesting I mean because they find it hot) to take power away from men. For some women who are attracted to men, there is something very fascinating and seductive about a man submitting (either sexually or emotionally), probably because it's something so commonly associated with female behavior. So again, it becomes less of a gender thing and more of a relationship role thing. If that makes any sense....

I just don't like how it's put forward as a YAY WOMEN field when it's not really.

I totally understand that. I actually avoid fan written slash like the plague because most of it is just not good. Most of it is (I think) influenced by yaoi, which oh dear god, has such problems. There is so much rape and questionable consent and a lot of "I'm only gay for that guy" and such overly traditional female behavior (even though one of them is male, go figure). And the kind of people you've probably argued with are likely the kind of people who make me afraid to admit I'm part of the yaoi subculture.

But there is good stuff out there. I promise. :-)

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Melissa G.

at 10:26 on 2011-07-13

Sorry, I made my long post before I saw this! That is odd. Why don't they focus on yuri? Yuri is slowly becoming a more female dominated genre. It's kind of cool actually that the female authors are slowly co-opting a genre that was once basically male-written lesbian porn for men. To each their own, I guess?

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valse de la lune

at 10:59 on 2011-07-13

It basically felt to me like my entire sexual preference/fetish/whatever was being boiled down to "ogling hot boys".

But... I said that because I think it's pretty dandy if you're just in it for the ogling of hot boys, or balls being cupped gently, or even self-lubing anuses. I don't think you, or anyone else, need to justify it any further than that. Think it's hot? Go for it! That's excellent. Objectifying

men

in and of itself, separate from the concern over straight people fetishizing homosexuality, doesn't really bother me. I'm not questioning the appeal of slash: I'm questioning some of the tropes, the homophobia, the misogyny. Which certainly aren't universal, but there sure is a lot of them to go around. Hell, gay male characters written by straight men also get raped an awful lot (hi Richard Morgan, thank you for that graphic schoolboy gang rape).

Disclosure: I think lesbians are awesome. I'd like to read more stuff with lesbian representation. Being homoromantic does have something to do with it, though.

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Melissa G.

at 11:11 on 2011-07-13

:-) I think it just came off as hostile because of the swearing, lol. To be honest, I was probably overly defensive because it's kind of a touchy thing for me.

I'm not questioning the appeal of slash: I'm questioning some of the tropes, the homophobia, the misogyny.

Yes, I'm with you here. I have a lot of trouble with a lot of boy/boy stuff that's out there.

Re: Lesbians

If you're looking to try out some yuri, I can lead you to some scanlation sites. I haven't read much yuri so I can't totally vouch for the content, but these are sites that I know of:

Lililicious

Payapaya

Just be sure to check for ratings and such. There was one on Lilicious I read years ago that I was enjoying.

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valse de la lune

at 11:14 on 2011-07-13OMG yay :D :D :D Thanks for the links. My friend's been sending me some too. I'm also quite pleased to see that a lot of yuri writers are female. Awesome.

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Cammalot

at 15:23 on 2011-07-13I JUST WANNA WATCH DUDES EMOTE. ;-)

I actually got into yaoi (not slash for whatever reason) because I was attracted to what I thought was the innate equality in such a a relationship. There are a variety of reasons I don't really seek out much fanfic anymore (one of which is the decade-plus that has gone by) but one of them is that I don't really see that equality getting embraced. (I'm necessarily truncating this, I have to imitate being a productive employee at the moment.)

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Melissa G.

at 19:40 on 2011-07-13

I JUST WANNA WATCH DUDES EMOTE. ;-)

Ooh, yes, good observation. I like that too.

I actually got into yaoi (not slash for whatever reason) because I was attracted to what I thought was the innate equality in such a a relationship.

Ditto. That's what I really like about it too, which is why I hate when they skew the power dynamic too far in one direction without somehow compensating for it in another way. I've never been into fanfic, but I do love doujinshi.

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Cammalot

at 19:48 on 2011-07-13I wrote up this whole long comment yesterday, but today with you guys' further conversation I realized I was addressing something that Pyro was not talking about, so I'm tweaking, but I don't think I'll have a chance to get to it today.

The extremely short version is that there's a very definite blockage that some women seem to have about writing women, and I had it myself for some time (and that some more extreme versions of it outright baffle me), and have spent a lot of time trying to process, discuss, and debate what the fuck that is about. With theories. I have theories.

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Melissa G.

at 19:53 on 2011-07-13

The extremely short version is that there's a very definite blockage that some women seem to have about writing women,

Definitely noticed this myself at times. I gravitate toward writing male characters, or at least I used to. I'm very interested to hear your theories whenever you find the time to write them up. :-)

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Sister Magpie

at 20:07 on 2011-07-13

I would guess that that's probably not all that related to the whole "that's my kink" thing, only not all kinks are sexual. That is, expecting them to explain it would probably be similar to having anybody explain why they find one thing more hot than another.

For instance, I like het and I like slash, but there are certain kinds of stories that could definitely be considered non-sexual kinks that I am more likely to read about in a m/m pairing than a f/m pairing or f/f pairing. I suppose I could try to relate it to power issues with gender IRL, but it's probably more just a kink if it's something I've pretty much always been drawn to.

I don't find that rape or "I'm only gay for that guy" seems to dominate most of the slash I come across, but I think that might often come down to different pairings leaning towards different dynamics. Or else also some authors being better than most.

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Steve Stirling at 22:44 on 2011-07-13Pyrofennec:

-of the women in this series like to rape gay men for some strange reason.Melusine opens with an anecdote about the pure, true love between men. Two women get between it; one proceeds to rape one of the men repeatedly until he wants to kill himself.

-- that is odd. I'd say it was evidence of misogyny if a guy wrote it, but I have trouble -imagining- a guy writing it, even a gay man. You'd need a very strange set of quirks to do so.

#Ferretbrain #Corambis #Sarah Monette #Wardog

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ask-the-phan-site · 5 years ago

Text

Phan Cam: Where Distortion meets Experimentation

>The Temple of Kaijudo. All seemed quite... Until...

BOOM!

What was that!?

It sounded like it came from... My garden.

>Me, Ray, Master Kimora, Oracle, Mona, Gabe, Master Nadia, and Master Chavez all ran to Kimora’s garden. When we got there, there was smoke all around. When it it began to clear, we saw a familiar sight.

I know that car anywhere.

>Sure enough, when the smoke completely cleared...

*cough* *cough* Guess I overdid it there.

It would seem that way.

Lavenza? Jose?

You know them?

They help us from time to time. Don’t worry.

But how did they get in here without the Stalker Spheres noticing them?

You find it better not to ask that.

Okay, but that doesn’t explain what they’re dong here.

Lavenza: I have felt what had happened in Nigel Brightmore’s Place...

(at Gabe) Even though Ra-Vu specifically said not to.

Gabe: (worried) I didn’t mean to!

Joker: Please, it’s alright.

Lavenza: (calming down) So, I decided to found out what damage was done. However, I cannot do it alone. So I asked Jose to assist me.

Jose: I really want to know what really happens when you open the Veil inside the Metaverse. So I decided to to conduct this little experiment using what I know best.

Metaverse Flowers?

Jose: And with the ones here.

Master Kimora: These plants came from the Kaiju Realm. So I guess it would make sense... But I don’t approve them being used in experiments without my consent. You could have at least come to me first.

Lavenza: We do apologize, but I fear what has happened might need imminent attention. We have decided to try and combine plants from the Metaverse and plants from the Kaiju Realm. Since both radiate energies from their respected realms, combining them might give off the same effect as opening the Veil in the Metaverse.

Master Kimora: And I see you had some explosive results.

Jose: Not really. I tried to use the engine of my car to energize it, but I think I may have overdone it. That’s what happens when you have to work with what you have.

Master Nadia: Against my better nature, I suppose I can let you use my lab.

Jose: I suppose. The technology you use there are powered by Mana. My engine runs on cognitive energy. That should get us better results. If that’s alright with you.

Master Chavez: I don’t see why not. If it helps us to learn more about the Veil and the Kaiju Realm.

Jose: Thank you. Now, to get my car to the lab.

Gabe: I think I know someone who can help with that. Reef Prince Glu-urrgle!

>With that, the Veil opens and Gargle comes out.

G-abriel, what’s the haps, my man?

Gabe: Think you can get this car to Master Nadia’s lab?

Gargle: Noted! Disassembly required.

Jose: Please be careful of the engine. It can be very delicate.

Joker: If you don’t mind, I like to see if another Cyber Lord can help with this.

Gabe: i think that would work.

Gargle: Gargle could use second opinion.

Joker: (putting the gauntlet on) I think I know someone who might help. I’m know it’s might be a bit out of his specialty, but I was told that he definitely proved his rebellion when the Choten took over the Water Realm.

Ray: I thought it was renegade.

Joker: Same difference. Finbarr, Council of Logos!

>The Veil opens and the Creature I summon arrives.

You must be Ren Amamiya, Futaba Sakura, and Mograna.

Mona: You know about us?

Gargle: Gargle update Council Files. New files added.

Oh great, more authority figures keeping a close eye on us.

Ray: I doubt you guys are wanted in the Kaiju Realm.

Oracle: Give it awhile.

Joker: Lord Finbarr, I was wondering if you can help us with something. We are about to conduct a great experiment. I know it might be a little out of your usual duties, but we could really use your help.

Finbarr: Very well. I have spent almost a year studying and helping Saguru, I might as well try this now.

Joker: Thank you.

>After taking about Jose’s car, we brought it to Master Nadia’s lab. We reassembled it. We hook it up to some machines.

Jose: Now, let us begin.

Master Nadia: What will we be expecting from this?

Jose: Who knows. If this involves inter-dimensional travel, we might get something other worldly. Now, to liquefy the plants.

>Jose turns one of the Metaverse Flowers into a drink. Master Kimora squeezes some of the plant’s essence into a vial. Then, Jose has him pour the essence into a beaker. Then, Jose places it on a pad on the engine. It turns out he was using it as a makeshift Bunsen burner to heat it up and a generator to energize it.

Jose: Goggles on.

>We put our goggles on.

Jose: And... Begin!

>Gargle turns the engine on. Sparks were flying the liquid in the beaker was glowing.

Jose: More power!

Gargle: The heat is on!

>Gargle turns up the power. The machines start getting readings.

Gabe: It looks like we’re getting something. But I think we need more power!

>Gargle turns the power up more.

Master Nadia: Gargle, I don’t think it can take much more!

Oracle: No way! I think it’s really getting some readings! More power!

>Gargle turns up the power again.

Finbarr: (showing some concern... possibly) I do not think this is wise! Reef Prince, turn it off!

Gargle: Error! Error! Power won’t go down! There she blows!

>We quickly take cover as the beaker explodes. Finally, Jose turns off the engine.

Jose: (a little disappointed) Well that was about as helpful as droppings. Oh well, I still have plenty of flowers to spare.

Master Kimora: I’m not sure about having to use up all of my plant samples, but I am rather curious on what the effects as well.

Oracle: Right. So, shall we try again?

>We reluctantly agree.

>We try again. This time, we try adding some acid to one of them. It still blew up. Several more attempts later, we thought we’d try adding alcohol. It only caused the beaker to melt.

Jose: I have a feeling we’re getting close to an answer. Let’s keep going.

Gargle: On ward and upward! Failure not an option!

Master Chavez: (a little worried) Dios mío, dame fuerzas.

>Sever more attempts later (one of which involved adding nitroglycerin which really blew up and earned us a yelling from Master Isao), it looked like things were going nowhere fast.

Ray: How many attempts does that make?

Gabe: To be honest... I lost count.

Gargle: Actually, it 290.

Gabe: (sarcastic) Thanks, Gargle.

Master Chavez: It’s getting late. I really think we should call it a day.

Oracle: We’re due back in Japan the day after tomorrow. I really don’t want to give up now.

Jose: I know. I just wish I knew what we’re doing wrong.

>I take a look at all of our past attempts... I think I now know.

EUREKA!

Master Kimora: What is it?

Joker: We’ve been going about this all wrong because we skipped a few steps. We didn’t observe what was before us, we didn’t hypothesize how to go about this. and we didn’t predict what may happen. If get through that, then we can experiment and finally get our conclusion.

Gabe: ... Are you talking about the Five Steps of the Scientific Method?

It pays to have a lot of friends.

Master Nadia: Very well. One more attempt, but that’s it. It’s getting real late.

>So, me, Oracle, Mona, and Master Nadia observed what we have to do. It seemed that the energies are attracting now just each other... But a third source as well. Finbarr, Gargle, and Master Kimora hypothesized that there might be more than just a connection between separate worlds. Finbarr, Gargle, and Oracle predicted that if it does involved a third source, maybe the Metaverse Flowers and the plants from the Kaiju Realm... will attract a third plant. Now, we can experiment. Jose realizes that with the machine already charged with Mana and the engine of his car has energy from the Metaverse, there’s no real need to turn it up to the max.

Jose: Ready?

>We all nod nervously (even Gargle and Finbarr).

Jose: Then here goes nothing.

>Jose turns the engine on. Jose turns up the power real slow as the beaker began to glow more and more. And then...

FLASH!

>A flash of light happened. When it died down, Jose turns off the engine.

Jose: (getting excited) Now let’s see what we have here.

>Inside the beaker was now a blueish green substance. Lavenza comes up to the beaker. Then, she takes the Compendium and turns back the pages as the substance begins to take shape. When it was done... It was now a flower.

Seriously!? We followed those steps and we’re back to square one?

Master Kimora: I don’t think I’ve ever seen a flower like that in the Kaiju Realm.

Jose: Or in the Metaverse.

But I have.

>Lavenza flips though the pages of the Compendium. When she got to the page she was looking for, she takes something out of it... It’s the same flower that’s in the beaker.

Mona: It’s the same one!

Lavenza: It was a gift. My older sister found it in a world she was in during her long journey to help a previous guest of the Velvet Room. It was a world similar to Earth. Believe she called it... Eternia.

Joker: Eternia?

Gabe: So, when Sasha opened the Veil in the Metaverse, something arrived from this Eternia?

Mona: Or someone.

Master Kimora: If so, where are they?

Lavenza: I doubt they arrived in the Metaverse or the Kaiju Realm. But since both places connect to this world...

They could be here on Earth.

Ray: But where? I doubt they’re here in San Campion.

Lavenza: I do not have the answer for that yet. They could be anywhere. Even in the middle of the ocean. But for now, we should keep our eyes and ears open.

>We nod... If a person arrived on Earth from Eternia, it looks like things are about to get hectic.

>Meanwhile back in Japan, in the hospital Crow was in that time, he returns here.

Nurse: Thanks for coming, Akechi kun. I just thought since you and your friends brought him here, you might be able to help.

It’s no trouble. When we first found him, I was intrigued. At first, we thought he was probably just a cosplayer. But we checked his hair and clothes. They’re all real...

Including the sword.

Nurse: Where is it, by the way?

Crow: It’s being studied. There something odd about it. Ms. Okumora told me so when she picked it up.

Nurse: I see. Anyway, the young man... He woke up. I was hoping you could talk to him.

Crow: How come?

Nurse: (unsure) Well, when he woke he... He couldn’t remember anything.

I see. That sounds bad.

Nurse: He had no identification on him. But I thought, since you’re the Detective Prince, maybe you might be able to help him.

Crow: Well, I can’t make any promises...

But I’ll see what I can do.

Nurse: Thank you... (I should really see if he’s dating anyone.)

>Later, they head into a room where the young man Crow, Queen, and Noir found sitting up in bed, covering his face. The nurse leaves them alone to talk.

Crow: Hello.

????: H- Hello.

Crow: Will you show me your face?

>The young man just shakes his head.

Crow: Alright, you don’t have to show me right away. Can you tell me about yourself?

????: I... I don’t think I can.

Crow: Do you know where you live?

????: I don’t know.

Crow: Do you have any family or friends?

????: I don’t know.

Crow: Do you at least know how old you are or your birthday?

????: (getting frustrated) I said I don’t know!