#Marcus Tullius Cicero to Mark Antony

[demon-fetal-harvest]

"I saw you at Julius Caesar's Assassination" Girl what were YOU doing at Julius Caesar's Assassination?

[stcantarella]

mark antony: if I was sulla I'd never proscribe my citizens

[5 years later]

cicero: hoohoohee

mark: hmm

[enlitment]

You've heard about Cicero: The Roman Musical. Now get ready for Six-style musical about the wives of Mark Antony! (also featuring Curio)

Featuring but not limited to:

Antonia Minor's steamy duet with Dolabella

Fulvia's epic battle-cry rap number, including a verse based on Octavian's terrible poem

Octavia's heartfelt power ballad about desperately trying to keep the Octavian-Mark Antony alliance together while looking after all the children (while simultaneously refusing to allow other people to walk all over her)

Cleopatra singing about her political ambitions, comparing JC and Mark Antony, defending herself against her portrayal in Rome & in modern media

Also featuring a song/rap number based on Cicero's second philippic because it needs to be there!! Mark Antony climbing in through the roof, possibly in a stola, Curio and his dad is there ---

Some kind of ensemble song with the wives addressing the audience based on Shakespeare's Friends, Romans, countrymen speech

you see my vision, right?

Also yes, I'm aware there's six of them on the poster. One of them is Curio perhaps. Also, graphic design is my passion, can you tell?

[historical-kitten]

Inviting Ancient Roman Politicians to a Modern Costume Party

Gaius Julius Caesar

Enjoys a good party and accepts your invitation, but when you go to pick him up you aren't sure if he's in a costume or just dresses like that. It's a very fabulous look. Or maybe he's dressed up as Elton John?

Marcus Licinius Crassus

The only way he attends is if you bribe him to go. He takes cash, Google pay, Apple Pay, Paypal, Cash App, and Venmo. It costs extra if you want him in a costume.

Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus aka Pompey

He will accept your invitation, but he wants to go in one of those inflatable costumes that looks like he's riding an elephant. If you can fit that in your car and through all the doorways, he'll be decent company at the party.

Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus aka Augustus

If Agrippa is meeting you there, lead with that and you might convince him to join you. He'll want all the details on the party and who will be there, so indulge him. He doesn't particularly want to wear a costume, but might dress as Apollo if pressed.

Marcus Antonius aka Mark Antony

He will absolutely come to your party, you don't even have to twist his arm. He likely takes it over once he arrives, though, so be prepared! He is fun and charming, but will not be going home sober. He might dress as Hercules, Dionysus, or Osiris.

Marcus Aemilius Lepidus

The way he disappears when you're at the party, he might as well be dressed as the Invisible Man. No really. Where'd he go?

Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa

He will go and stay with you, a loyal friend, unless Octavianus shows up and then he ultimately follows him. He didn't wear a costume but let someone paint a teardrop on his face. He wins "Most Original Costume" for his 'personification of human sadness' outfit. He doesn't look happy about it.

Publius Clodius Pulcher

He's always up for a party and will look a million times better in his costume than you do. Whatever you do, don't tell him about that girl's night only Halloween party unless you want him to show up dressed like one of the girls. (He'll be really fun, but might cause a divorce.)

Sextus Pompeius Magnus Pius

He is gracious as a guest and wears a nautical Captain's costume. He'll party with you, but not over indulge. Just don't ask if he's a pirate, that's rude.

Marcus Junius Brutus

He only accepts the invitation if friends of his are going to the party. His costume seems to be a dark hood and cape and he disappears into the corner with Cassius soon after you arrive.

Gaius Cassius Longinus

He is quite amiable with his friends and if he's yours, he'll accept your invitation. The costume is sleek and dark and furtive, possibly a rogue or assassin? Just don't be hurt when he disappears into a corner with Brutus at some point in the night.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

You do not want to invite him, do you? If you do, he accepts. Although he was wearing regular clothes initially, they're definitely covered in blood before you're at the party for long. That's fake blood... right?

Marcus Tullius Cicero

You have to cajole him to go, but once he is there, he is happy to be the center of attention telling jokes and stories. Wearing a costume is beneath his dignity, but judging everyone else's is not.

[garland-on-thy-brow]

I thought bald men who treat him like a joke were Antony's type.

[duxfemina]

Hey just went through your previous ask.

But honestly consider that if you are women in your early to mid 20s rank the ancient romans which of them would be least to most creepy on your journey.

Thank you for establishing that my theoretical life here is that of a woman of rank. So I'm my head the scenario is my litter or whatever I was traveling in has broken down and it's just me and the two slaves who were with me (real me would never have slaves obvs upper class Roman me pretty much would have to)

Octavian - one look at this man and my skins gonna break out. I'm baby faced IRL so his creepy ass would mistake 24yo me for 14 and he had a thing for underage girls so he's probably gonna try to take liberties. This isn't gonna end well for me I fear. Especially if I'm somebody's wife because if it's not teenage girls his next favorite amorous target is other guys' wives. 1/10 the only reason 1 is there is just in case I actually get to escape this scenario without him forcing himself on me.

Sulla - depends on if it's party boy Sulla or Sulla on a military mission. Either way I'm gonna either get basic courtesy but very brusque at best or at worst I'm getting r*ped and left on the side of the road, potentially without even the protection of my servants who he'd probably steal 3/10 if he's in a good mood my vehicle may get repaired but the prospects aren't great

Julius - Julius would follow the same route as Agrippa except if he found me attractive or thought my family was of strategic influence then he'd spend the whole time trying to seduce me. Which depending on how footloose and wild of a Roman lady I am here, I might do, especially if I think it will bring political advantage to my own family because that's all Romans care about. But if I turned him down emphatically enough he'd probably take it well enough and leave me in peace and then he might not be as considerate as Agrippa but he wouldn't be outright rude because he never knows when he might need favors from my fam. 7/10 on safe vibes.

Cicero - he'll be perfectly safe just very self important and remind me how indebted I am to him ever after this event. 7/10 I'll be safe, he won't be pervy, he'll just be annoying and pompous

Antony - he'd offer his assistance, invite me to the party he's having, invite me to travel with him, try to seduce me, but if rejected he'd take it just fine and give me a couple amphora of wine for the road 7/10 he might get handsy when he's drunk but other than that he's gonna be a gentleman about things

Brutus - he'd offer me what hospitality he could, even if this is Liberators Era Brutus and he's scant on supplies or something he'd still do his best to uphold the reputation of his family for hospitality. Definitely not creepy, dinner with him might turn morbid though so 8/10 simply because he might be a little too passive to stop the men under his command from behaving unseemly

Agrippa - would stop, offer his protection and assistance. He'd probably talk to me about his kids and treat me to a nice dinner and then if I wasn't headed the same direction as he was he'd send me on my way with a detachment for safety and protection or have his men repair my chariot or whatever I was traveling in. No creepy vibes whatsoever 9/10 on safe vibes

Aurelius - he would be very courteous and help me out and even restock my provisions and set me up with a whole new vehicle rather than even delaying me to wait for repairs 10/10 this man is not creepy in the least

Gnaeus Pompeius - Magnus is magnanimous as heck. He's also very traditional. He would treat me with respect and honor and be extremely courteous. If this is Pompeius the married man he wouldn't even think of flirting with me because he was notorious for his monogamy in marriage. If it's bachelor Pompeius he might be making observations on my suitability as a spouse but he's not gonna make any forward moves. He'd talk to my family about it afterwards if he was interested in marriage. 10/10 I'm gonna be safe and sound and if any of his men made inappropriate comments he'd be the most likely of the guys on this list to admonish them for it

[theantonian]

Was the Lupercalia Antony's desperate attempt to save Caesar?

During the months of January and February 44 BC, Caesar was nominated perpetual Dictator and Censor of Rome. His growing regality and arrogance gave rise to much discontent among a large group of senators and people. Antony came up with a plan to warn Caesar without incurring his violent displeasure.

When Cicero in his 2nd Philippic, vehemently attacked Antony and accused him of trying to crown Caesar as King, Quintus Fufius Calenus gave a speech in Antony's defense, explaining the reason for his conduct at Lupercalia.

"He [Cicero] introduced the matter of his stripping and anointing and those ancient fables, not because any of them was called for on the present occasion, but in order to drown out by irrelevant noise Antony's consummate skill and success. Yet this same Antony, witness earth and gods!, when he saw that the city was already in reality under a tyranny, inasmuch as all the legions obeyed Caesar and all the people together with the senate submitted to him to such an extent that they voted, among other measures, that he should be dictator for life and use the trapping of the kings ��� this Antony, convinced Caesar of his error most cleverly and restrained him most prudently, until Caesar, abashed and afraid, would not accept either the name of king or the diadem, which he had in mind to bestow upon himself even against our will. Any other man, now, would have declared that he had been ordered by his superior to do all this, and putting forward the compulsion as an excuse, would have obtained pardon for it — and why not, considering that we had passed such votes at that time and that the soldiers had gained such power? Antony, however, because he was thoroughly acquainted with Caesar's intentions and perfectly aware of all he was preparing to do, by great good judgment succeeded in turning him aside from his course and dissuaded him. The proof is that Caesar afterwards no longer behaved in any way like a monarch but mingled publicly and unprotected with us all; and for this reason, more than for any other it became possible that he should meet the fate he did.

This is what was accomplished, O Cicero, by the uneducated, the naked, the anointed man; and none of it was done by you, so clever, so wise, you who use much more oil than wine.

When Antony, saw that Caesar was becoming exalted above our government, caused him, by means of the very proposals which were supposed to gratify him, not to put into effect any of the projects he had in mind. For nothing so diverts persons from purposes which they cherish a wrongful desire to achieve and can put into effect, as for those who fear that they may have to submit to such things to pretend that they endure them of their own choice. For these persons in authority, being conscious of their own wrongful purposes, do not trust the sincerity of others, and believing that they have been detected, are ashamed and afraid, construing to the opposite effect, in their distrust, what is said to them, counting it mere flattery, and regarding with suspicion, in their shame, the possible outcome of what is said, as if it were a plot. It was of course because Antony knew this thoroughly that he first of all selected the Lupercalia and its procession, in order that Caesar in the relaxation of his spirit and merriment of the occasion might with safety be rebuked, and that, in the next place, he selected the Forum and the rostra that Caesar might be made ashamed by the very places. And he fabricated the commands from the populace, in order that Caesar, hearing them, might reflect, not on all that Antony was saying at the time, but on all that the Roman people would order a man to say. For how could he have believed that this injunction had been laid upon anyone, when he neither knew of the people's having voted anything of the kind nor heard them shouting their applause? But, in fact, it was necessary for him to hear this in the Roman Forum, where we have often joined in many deliberations for freedom, and beside the rostra, from which we have sent forth thousands upon thousands of measures on behalf of the republic, and at the festival of the Lupercalia, in order that he might be reminded of Romulus, and from the lips of the consul, that he might call to mind the deeds of the early consuls, and in the name of the people, that he might ponder the fact that he was undertaking to be tyrant, not over Africans or Gauls or Egyptians, but over very Romans. These words brought him to himself, they humiliated him; and whereas, if anyone else had offered him the diadem, he might perhaps have taken it, as it was, through the influence of all these associations, he checked himself; he shuddered and felt afraid.

Here, then, you have the deeds of Antony; he did not break a leg in a vain attempt to make his own escape, nor burn off a hand in order to frighten Porsenna, but by his cleverness and consummate skill, which were of more avail than the spear of Decius or the sword of Brutus, he put an end to the tyranny of Caesar."

Sources: Cassius Dio, xlvi, 17, 19.

[lemurious]

My Mark Antony double drabble series is done! Self indulgent character study as befits the protagonist. 

1: Antony & Brutus 

2: Antony & Caesar 

3: Antony & Cicero 

4: Antony & Cassius

5: Antony & Octavian

6: Antony & Agrippa

7: Antony & Pompey

8: Antony & Rome

Chapters: 8/8 Fandom: Classical Greece and Rome History & Literature RPF, Julius Caesar - Shakespeare, Rome (TV 2005), Ancient History RPF Rating: Teen And Up Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Marcus Antonius | Mark Antony/Julius Caesar, Marcus Antonius | Mark Antony & Marcus Junius Brutus the Younger, Marcus Antonius | Mark Antony & Gaius Cassius Longinus (d. 42 BCE), Mark Antony & Marcus Tullius Cicero, Mark Antony & Gaius Iulius Caesar Octavianus | Emperor Augustus, Mark Antony & Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, Mark Antony & Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus | Pompey the Great Characters: Marcus Antonius | Mark Antony, Julius Caesar, Marcus Junius Brutus the Younger, Gaius Cassius Longinus (d. 42 BCE), Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus | Emperor Augustus, Marcus Tullius Cicero, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus | Pompey the Great Additional Tags: Double Drabble, Battle of Philippi, ides of March, War, Angst, Memory, Character Study Summary:

A series of ficlets focused on Mark Antony during the 2nd Triumvirate: double drabbles, one for each pair.

[dumspirovaniloquor]

So I've looking at my old, forgotten, stacked-in-the-attic writing and I thought I'd share something with you.

It's a few lines of a distrack about Antony from Cicero's POV. It goes like this:

Oh, enough with the fucking proscriptions again

Haven't you learnt anything from Sulla?

Shoulda written another speech and then

You'd get kicked outta the Italian peninsula

[abtl]

So you don't know that Cicero made several speeches saying that as a young man Mark Anthony would wear his hair long, dress up in feminine clothing and whore himself out like a prostitute (Fun fact, Nero grew his hair out long to resemble him, because he was his grandfather). Even as he grew up he wore extremely short tunics to show off his perfectly shaved, muscular legs, which Cicero probably envied, because Cicero had varicose veins and would undergo cosmetic surgeries to have them removed. Those insults are probably why Mark Anthony had Cicero killed.

...The thing about Mark Anthony being a drunk are 100% true tho, he literally came into the Senate drunk multiple times, once even with puke all over his white toga.

You cannot make this shit up. Holy shit. Roman history is just absolutely insane.

[gustavedebeaumont]

yeah so uh

[stcantarella]

cicero when mark produces another secret wish written by caesar in his will that no one else has seen:

[enlitment]

How has your perspective of history (any time period/person) changed over time?

Thank you for the thought-provoking question!

In general, I'd say that I came to find out that both the historical periods and figures we collectively assume to be super stern and serious had complicated, often quite chaotic lives and were far from being immune to petty personal dramas.

I think that people who don't engage with history after high school often miss the fact that it has the potential to not only be fun, but also genuinely funny at times.

One of the big eye-opening moments for me was reading Cicero's Second Philippic. I vaguely remembered briefly learning about them in high school, but never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that the accusations Cicero makes against Mark Antony were of that nature. (I recommend this extremely fun article for anyone who hasn't read it already and wants to find out more!). It definitely changed the way I see Cicero and, to some extent, the late Roman Republic in general.

Couple of weeks after I first read it, I went to a very formal university event during which someone quoted Cicero (because of course they did - they always do) and I remember that I had to keep smirking. The second philippic was all I could think of in that moment.

Same goes for a lot of famous 18th century figures (Frederick the Great, Voltaire, Rousseau...) which you kind of implicitly assume were all serious, respectable people - until you get your hands on their letters and realise that the level of drama and cattiness in the 1700s was just off the charts.

On a more serious note, I'd like to think that my view of the French Revolution has became more nuanced as I read more about it. I was certainly taught something along the lines of 'it started as a nice idea but then Robespierre turned into a bloodthirsty dictator and started executing everyone!' at school. It was not easy to shake this off at first.

On a basic level, I think people just like to believe that everything bad that happens can be ascribed to one or two people 'turning crazy' instead of realising that the real dark things often stem from a specific situation and circumstances rather than individual people.

The fact that it was not Robespierre alone running the country is hard to argue with, I mean that's just a historical fact. But I also think it is important to take into account all that was happening in France during the 1790s - the war, the near-famine, how much conspirators working against the revolution were a real threat and not just a product of someone's paranoid delusions...

No matter what specific conclusions you came to in the end, I think this is something you need to be aware of before you form any judgement of the Revolution. Without reflecting that, the discussion always feels rather pointless.

Oh, and I was delighted to find out just how wrong the view that women just lied on a sofa doing nothing for hundreds of years before feminism kicked off in the late 1800s. Finding out about all the cool influential women from history continues to surprise me in the best possible way!

[pleasingnight]

Do you think Antony put Cicero's big naturals on the rostra because they nursed the Philippics?

[garland-on-thy-brow]

Your grandfather was, I know, a very ready speaker, but I know that you in speaking unbosom yourself more freely. **

He never made an harangue naked; your breast, simple man, we have seen!

**C. plays on the meaning of 'apertus,' i.e. "frank," or "open to view." A. harangued nudus at the Lupercalia ; cf. Phil. iii. 5.

- Cic. Phil. 2.111 trans. W.C.A. Ker, with notes by the same.

Is he, you know, spread open for interpretation?

[duxfemina]

Not the original anon but reading your answer to the safety on road ask was so fun!

If you have time, could you please rank the following ancient Romans based on how good of a podcast they could produce?

Cicero, Julius Caesar, Brutus, Mark Antony, Cassius, Octavian, Agrippa, Catullus

Cicero would be the first century Joe Rogan, if you define a "good" podcast by it's popularity then definitely he's successful. If you want accuracy and quality maybe look elsewhere but regardless it will be considered entertaining usually

Julius Caesar - Some people listen just for entertainment like it's a good novel, some people religiously follow his pod and swear everything he claims is true. He's often flagged for fake news but he maintains he's absolutely done all the things he claimed to, up to and including the frequent allusions to his many love affairs with married women. His casual fans are fine, that hard core contingent that takes him at his word is toxic as hell and often makes people avoid his podcast but the casual fans are just there for the fun. Sorta like Star Wars fandom vibes

Brutus - his podcast is the opposite of Cicero's it's good, it's really good, it's also only got an audience of a couple hundred and a lot of those are his relatives or family friends, but he perseveres in sharing his deep insightful takes even if most of the people are just listening out of politeness

Mark Antony is podcast god. Everyone loves his show, unlike Caesar he really doesn't care if you believe his escapades are real or not. It's basically like drunk history without the history it's just him cracking up with some friends over drinks and taking the piss out of whatever the weeks topic is. It only gets serious when someone mentions Cicero and then Antony will get upset and either go on a tirade, which will make for a popular episode (some guests will deliberately trigger his Cicerophobia just for this reason) or he will drink too much (even by Antonian standards) and sulk and then the episode will have to abruptly end there

Cassius - I feel is the most likely to have like the life coaching, how to have confidence and succeed kind of podcast. He's relatively popular but never top of the charts and he doesn't mind. He feels he's helping people, he does resent that Caesar's hyperbolic tripe is consistently ranked higher than his thoughtful insights about how to make a better life for yourself

Octavian - he has listeners only because people wanna know if they're on his good side or if they should start selling their stuff and leaving Italy before it's too late. All his other listeners are either bootlickers, trying to casually bring up topics he discussed to make him feel validated and save their necks, or they listen because they're afraid he can somehow see the lists of names of who listens and if they're not on it he might add them to that OTHER list ie. The Proscriptions. Exactly two people willingly listens to three podcast and that's Agrippa, Octavia, and Attia and even Agrippa usually just has it in the background and is only half paying attention and Octavia is the only person to ever give him even a mild critique of his presentation

Agrippa - he only got a podcast because Octavian told him he should have one too. But while no one willingly listens to Octavian's Agrippa's smaller fan base is much more loyal and love listening to him give insights on military tactics and history and it's absolutely a fan favorite moment when he's at home to record his episodes and he has his sons on for a small segment where he lets them explain whatever strategy they employed in their games that day and he'll always find a way to adapt their child's play to a real life battle principle.

Catullus... I am sleep deprived and tired and my mind has blanked on who Catullus was

So instead I'll give you Cato. The Alex Jones of his day. He will rage daily and just keep getting more rabid, he is the king of the conspiracy theory contingent of podcasts. He will warn you about threats that 90% of which are invented and the other 10% somewhat accurate but wildly misrepresented.

*my comparisons to modern podcasters are based off of vibes not inferring that this person was the same in any real way