#Mara and Crow/Uldren my beloathed/loved

[strawbbydraws]

It’s all good, I’m happy to have my tags used as a starting point for a good rant!

I share a LOT of the same thoughts! Unfortunately I’m not able to play the game anymore so I only get a superficial view of a lot of things but like. Yeah. This is all it. This is my issue. I can't word this as well or anything, but I have a lot of thoughts. (I apologize if I am wrong about anything, I've had to passively consume the content since I can't play it so there's a chance of me misremembering things)

I WAS a Mara "hater" (I use this term loosely) but the moment she got sanded down to be more… palatable? Easier to like and understand?- I really really missed what she was before. I’m just now starting to have a deep dive into her character and now it just sucks that she was suddenly smoothed out to hurry along the plotline. I didn't like her because she was an abusive conniver but I didn't hate that she was that way, she was written well and she was incredibly interesting. I like her but also am exploding her. Yk. I'm really not a person who has it in me to hate characters (seeing the nonsensical crow hate makes you just. not even want to be like that.) but man the change made my mostly neutral feeling I had to just straight up missing her. I've been out of the loop for awhile so there may have been earlier signs, but in Season of Defiance (low hanging fruit, I know) I really started feeling the weird character shift for her and Crow there, especially when he was mourning his dead friend and she tried to swoop in and give him advice ??? Sure, he snapped at her at first when she tried to tell him vengeance was pointless and dangerous, but his "vengeance" was a nothing burger and ended up being "good" and so that just whole interaction fell flat- so he didn't have to consider what she said or even think about her after it all went down. It was strange to see her trying to comfort this dude that she spent years and years (in)directly traumatizing. He should have been closed off to her of ALL people, but the opposite happened- he opened up and shared something he never mentioned to anybody else- which in itself isn't a bad thing. It would have been interesting if this was her trying to slip back into his life when he was emotionally vulnerable but it obviously was meant to be more genuine in some capacity.

I was confused. She really felt sort of out of place in that season as a whole, like she was being forced in just to get closer with Crow. (Crow's character was definitely watered down at times, and I don't want to be pointing fingers at "the casuals" for every writing decision bc some of their attempts they made at making the guy openly flawed had major issues [see: season of the risen, my opinion is very. complicated on that] and that wasn't anybody's fault. But there was a period where I was afraid they were going to permanently smooth his "negative" traits over like his brashness, hardheadedness, and snappiness bc of how controversial his behavior was to various parts of the community- and they did make him quite subdued in Defiance in general)

It made more sense once Season of the Wish happened, it was like. Oh. You were trying to mash them together for this. To be the bridge into the pale heart. But the thing was that they didn't have to be buddies! They didn't have to be trusting for this to work! In fact, any tension they had would have made this way more interesting. Crow didn't need to trust her completely to know he had to do this, and this could have been where they finally put their heads together for everybody else's betterment.

My idea of Crow vs. Uldren is very complicated and would take a separate post that I likely won't ever make, haha. I accept most interpretations (I particularly like interpretations along the line of yours), save for ones that seem to completely reject Uldren as having any association with him, they are both interconnected enough that Crow literally says "I" and "me" when referring to him at times. A lot of Uldren IS Crow and people need to stop treating Uldren like some evil bogeyman that might pop out of him if it gets bad enough- though that's a half tangent, but relevant in the sense that initially Mara couldn't even separate them. This due in part of the grief she was experiencing, and the fact she wanted to bring Uldren back, and was even told to leave him alone when he was struggling- potentially because of how he'd react or how SHE would act, which once again makes it weird for her to step in during Defiance, even if time had passed, but it's like they just flipped a switch and ignored all the characterization these two had since Season of the Lost to make them work. You can only chalk up so much to character development before it's just straight up rushing and switching things up to make pieces fit later on. I was thinking of the bait as well!! It was treated as a mysterious feat, like he had weird abilities or *something* going on, and then the visions, the Hawkmoon, the Radiant Accipiter, made him seem like he was chosen for something- like he was almost paracausal himself, or at least was given paracausal abilities. Hell, people were theorizing he'd become the next Speaker in the sense of ushering in a new period of communication with the Traveler, and while I didn't think he'd be the next literal Speaker, I held onto that for a long time and was excited to see how this would play out in TFS since he'd literally be INSIDE the Traveler, but Cayde literally ended up being the communing with the traveler, and it makes sense, but Crow should have played a bigger role. I'm sure they had a lot of ideas that they ended up scrapping over the years but genuinely, Crow should have been given the opportunity to be something more than being there to get handed the title of Hunter Vanguard and have that arc tied up into a neat little bow. Imo he should have been weirder (aka there should have been more paracausal things happening to him there and even leading up to that point).

A couple more things you could add that are smaller on scale but still are a little weird: 1. He also was given the psion anti-light tech to look at. I'm not sure if anything was done with that but idk. I thought it'd be used in WQ but I don't think anything came out of it. Honestly, the fact he's so clever with strange tech is so underutilized in general.

2. In lore, there was mention of Ikora setting him up with another hunter and a warlock for a mission or something and nothing came of it. I guess I shouldn't have expected there to be a follow up to it, but it felt like a really weird thing to just throw in there considering he was still very much not accepted into society yet. It felt like something that'd be brought up in a future season or something but,, nope.

3. Wasn't he supposed to go to court or something??? (I was told this so I don't know if it's true or not)

The fact that we have heard basically NOTHING from the awoken who lived through Uldren's genocide is insane to me. We haven't known anything for years, it wasn't even really discussed much post-Forsaken. It would be so fascinating to see something from the perspective of an awoken citizen but is there really nothing Crow ACTUALLY has to answer for beyond what he chooses to address willingly? I don't think it's necessarily fair to do that to him, but do people at least harbor some opinion of his existence at the Reef?

I AM glad he's finally getting some time to interact with Fikrul and there's been some good shit there, even with the goofs and awkward moments in Revenant. I'm hoping there's some genuine harbored guilt and emotional pain that gets to show through... I have my opinions on how they dropped so many signs of various mental issues like depression, anxiety, ptsd, suicidal thoughts, and I don't expect him to be absolutely miserable but he shouldn't just be magically better, yk? I want him to have realistic emotions and feelings due to what he's experienced- something that has been a little lacking at times.

I adore him and I love what good writing he has, but man.. Him and Mara, and honestly Uldren as a result,, have been done dirty with their relationship- Crow and Mara have been watered down in that aspect. Why couldn't it have been strained and weird. Uldren is made to look even worse (the FS statue dialogue between Mara and Uldren still irritates me to no end) and looks less and less like a victim who also made the wrong choices, and more like the flat, obsessive villain many perceive him as- sure, there's still bits of recentish lore that try to keep that nuance, but with the narrative shift Crow and Mara had, it just really makes Uldren's character suffer as well.

Yay! You made it to the end! Have a bunny

So I hope you don't mind my grabbing this and running with it in rant format, because you got my brain going, and I'm having a hard time focusing on my homework anyway (which is kind of bad because it's due by 11:59PM tonight, but I digress...).

There are some things in D2 I can look past, but The Sov Twins isn't one of them. That? The whole *points to Season of the Wish and beyond* thing with them making up and suddenly becoming uwu magic twins where nothing is wrong ever? It still bends me into a pretzel of malcontent. It displeases me greatly. Yes, sure, I am a Certified Mara-hater (tm), but even I can step back and go "hmm, hold up" at how Mara's been run over by a damn steamroller and flattened out. Even taking into account her being shocked into giving a fuck and changing her ways, it just feels like it all happened... too fast? It feels like her character kind of did a full on 180 degree pivot that feels very... not Mara-like. The one thing the siblings have had in common is they're both stubborn bastards at the end of the day. They don't change their mind easily, and I would think old habits would die hard. When you're toxic (and powerful) in the way Mara was, you don't just suddenly change overnight. It takes time, and there will always be the great risk and temptation to return to old ways to get what you want (which, if I recall correctly, was fucking godhood, so...).

Honestly, Mara's terribleness and motivations are what make her otherwise a great foil/"companion" to Savathun. These things, however, ring a bit more hollow with her current characterization of "turning a new leaf" and becoming a "good queen, actually". Mara was great morally grey/potential villain material because she wielded deception much the same way Savathun did -- she uses secrets and lies like finely crafted weapons.

And to that end, that extends to Crow, too. I'm of the "he's still Uldren, but better" camp, so I approach him as a continuation of Uldren and all of the problems that came with that, including his stupid hard-headedness. Heck, we SEE that through the course of his arc. Once he gets an idea in his head, he doesn't let go of it very easily. Both Saladin and Eris got to have the 'pleasure' of trying to pry open that steel trap. So it confuses me that he doubled back so fast on his sister when he showed previously, once he had his memories back, to be extremely leery of her (and rightfully so). In fact, I feel like he got even more reason to be weary as time went on, both indirectly from learning about events and things related to the both of them with newfound clarity he didn't have in his life as Uldren, but also through how she now suddenly expressed a desire in him despite having been cold and the opposite prior to Savathun giving him his memories, as that sort of behavior usually smacks of honeyed words placed in the center of a bear trap.

It's a great pity we didn't get to see their relationship be complicated, and zero respect be paid to Crow's lasting trauma from his relationship with Mara. It's also a pity because the whole point of his arc wasn't just redemption, but I feel it was also self-actualization. He was finally able to become his own man. Shit, even the Memory of Uldren outright states that if you found the right little memory bubble during Season of the Haunted. And yet, with how they (the writers) have chosen to progress his story -- their story -- makes that whole point kind of feel... empty, because he just cozied right back up to Mara in SoW and that was that. It honestly almost felt eerie, because it had that feeling like he was letting the leash start to get put right back on him again. It honestly felt like we're supposed to just pretend that the PTSD and the anxiety and the PROBLEMS Mara caused him are just suddenly... evaporated? All good and gone and resolved?

Yeah I don't buy that, I hate it, and it just feels really... icky. Mara put that poor man through the damn ringer and ultimately got him killed. Characters in-universe even acknowledge that fact, to some degree. (I'd argue even Petra acknowledges it.) So it just... ugh! It bothers me so much that there is zero complexity to their relationship now. No, I don't want Crow to hate Mara (though that would be justified), but I do think it would've been more logical for him to express large amounts of caution towards her. I would've liked to see them struggle to see eye-to-eye and grow -- or not grow, even. Perhaps it'd be the futile attempt at mending a bridge that can't be repaired? A trust that can never truly be re-earned? Alas, it feels like we won't get any of that.

I've had it suggested that Mara is putting up a front, by the way, and that this is all a long-con on her part to get Crow to trust her again, and get everyone on her side for her own nefarious purposes. I would be delightfully shocked if that were the case (I mean I'd feel bad for Crow, but it would be a nice touch of complexity), but I also have zero reason to believe that would happen, with how things have been set up so far. But, now that The Witness is out of the way, who knows?

On Crow's end, I do think there is still some room to explore the complexities of his character. One example is happening right now: how he deals with the very real and very complicated consequence of his life as Uldren -- Fikrul and the Scorn. There is a lot of heavy leaning on the Eliksni side of things this Episode, but I am hoping that we actually get some juicy stuff concerning Crow and Fikrul, too. It's definitely been interesting, so far. But yeah, you're right on the money: there are definitely things that have been mentioned and then just left hanging. There are two things I can think of right off the bat:

A minor item, but I still think back to Season of the Hunt and how Crow was able to pull an Eris and manipulate Balefire and Hive magic to create the Lures we used to hunt Wrathborn. Ghost comments on this being very shocking and unusual, and does ask outright how Crow does it, to which, of course, we get a coy non-answer from our favorite Hunter. (I still maintain he was flirting with us that entire fucking season...) And I agree with Ghost -- it's weird and suspect. With Eris, we're not surprised because she's been studying Hive Stuff for a long time. Homegirl made studying those bastards her whole identity. So it's no surprise when she whips out Hive Stuff like the boss she is. Crow on the other hand? A brand new Lightbearer? Something is fishy. We know Uldren was pretty fucking smart and good at making stuff (see: the drone spy system he apparently had deployed around the Sol System?), so it may be a bit of that manifesting in him at the time, but it's still a very intriguing and odd thread that has yet to be picked back up. But, clearly, there's something 'special' about Crow/Uldren.

A bigger item playing on the 'clearly there's something special about him' line: I genuinely thought he'd have a MUCH bigger role to play in TFS given just how much air time he's been given, both in the literal sense (he's been the center or near-center of so many seasons and arcs) and in the 'in-universe' sense. To expand on the latter: other than us, the Main Character, Crow is unique in his treatment from The Traveler. He's gotten visions, which is established to be rare in this universe, as I believe only The Young Wolf and Ikora at the time had gotten that treatment (and then later, add Micah to the list). Not even the Speaker really fully got that privilege, at least not without his mask. He's been given a paracausal ship. He got given a paracausal gun. Outside of that, there's him even being able to even minutely remember things BEFORE Savathun restored his memories (remember, he actually realized he had some recognition of The Dreaming City and how to get around). And then he gets to be potentially the only Guardian to get to "fully remembers his past life" status thanks to Savathun. I believe in the case of Ana and Micah both, they only know what was recorded for them to find. I could be wrong, but still. My point is that Crow has been given a lot of unique opportunities, abilities, things within the universe of Destiny 2 that felt like they were intentionally building him up for something, and I don't mean 'building him up to be Hunter Vanguard'. Sure, that's a big thing, but in the grand scheme... it's just a title. I mean building up to have some sort of major impact. So when we got to SoW and TFS, it felt very... underwhelming for him to simply be 1) one-half of a bridge into The Pale Heart and 2) be The Guy That Wished Cayde Back.

It just feels like there's been some very bizarrely abandoned threads that don't look like they're going to be picked back up, and it's disappointing.

This is all also without touching on exploring his relationship with The Reef and everything complicated with that, because the question becomes: is he still Prince of The Awoken? How do the Reefborn feel about this after he terrorized them for literally years and basically committed genocide against his own people? Does he still have access to Uldren's spy network? There are a lot of little questions that I don't think we'll ever get an answer to.

I still love his character (although I would love more sass), but I still also lament that, yeah, true to that reblog (that these tags are from), he could be a very deep character if they took the time. And before anyone says "you're expecting nuance and complexity in a looter-shooter": *motions to Eris* *motions to Osiris* *motions to Micah* *motions to the crazy complexity of the Osmium Dynasty siblings*

Destiny 2 has the ability to handle complexity and nuance. I can accept that I won't ever fully get stuff going down to the nitty-gritty, but I do wish we got just... a little bit more.