#Looping back is a skill that only Siffrins know

[buttercupshands]

That simulation try just turned into a tragedy play in the end with betrayal, revenge and.... Looping back in time.

Just casually becoming family with yourself and your God (and some random Sadnesses)

And then this happened

Siffrin casually avoided the Feast while Stylish one killed Loop again

And then Siffrin casually showed that looping is a Siffrin thing.

And won this round too

Also Universe still lead and some people followed

Playing hunger games simulator with 24 different characters and these two still insist on recreating In Stars and Time

[aria0fgold]

Thinking more about my isat au and I'm gonna need to change a LOT more than I thought. First things first, Siffrin's connection to the wish. Since in Of gems and pages, all the wishes stayed the same. So why is Odile the one looping and not Siff? So basically, what I think I'd do in my au is that the Universe decided to change things up a bit.

The first time the Universe granted Siffrin the means to fulfill their wish, things went horribly bad (just look at Loop). So this time, the Universe decided to give this new Siffrin, something a lil different. They still gave Siffrin the timeloop But made Odile his proxy. So that Siffrin may have helpers in this new timeline, with Loop as the guide and Odile helping as well, it Should go better, right??? And since the wish is connected with Siffrin's emotions, the Universe can't just completely make it Odile's problem now, sooo basically... Siffrin can still remember Parts of a previous loop PRIOR to their deaths.

That means during the beginning of canon when Siff was crushed by a boulder, he remembers that. And found Loop as well, but when he accidentally ended up touching a tear, he now Doesn't remember being crushed by a boulder but by being frozen in time. At the same time, he ALSO doesn't remember Anything else prior to it. So he doesn't remember that there's a boulder that can kill him by the entrance of the House, he doesn't remember Loop. All he remembers is that somehow, one way or another, he was frozen in time within the House and needs to be more careful with the tears. And because of the way that the loops affect Siffrin now is faaar too different than how it affected Loop, he can't go forwards or backwards in time. Siff will always awaken back in the meadow and Loop will always have to do their whole speech all over again (which would most likely annoy them immediately cuz why? Why is it so different now? Why can't this Siffrin REMEMBER?)

Odile on the other hand, remembers ALL the loops and finds a lot of discrepancies with Siffrin. It takes awhile for her to meet Loop and they get to talk to each other. Their meeting would be pretty... rocky at first. Loop still getting regarded as a stranger by Odile, Loop finding out that Odile is the one getting affected by the timeloop from their own selfish wish. Even if that Siffrin isn't them, it doesn't change the fact that they both made the same wish. Loop thinkin bout being such a favourite cosmic joke of the Universe that not only were they turned into This, one of their family members are suffering cuz of them. And she doesn't even recognize them. It'd be pretty hard at first too cuz Loop doesn't know that their appearance changed yet, there's no mirror. For Loop, they might still look like Siffrin, right? But Odile's reaction to seeing them says otherwise.

Anyway in this au, stage wise, Odile is the actor, Siffrin is the director, and the Universe is the audience. Book wise, Odile is the character, Siffrin is the writer, and the Universe is the reader. Why is Siffrin the director or the writer and not the Universe? That's because the timeloops are Still connected to his emotions, if something he didn't want to think about happens like, that argument with Bonbon (just as an example. I'm wondering if that'll still happen here considering that only happened because of Siff had memories of all the loops in canon. He doesn't have that in this au anymore), time would loop back still, so in a way, Siff Is writing how the timeloops go.

[maddilynmuse]

Memory of Liar

Another fic for @mari-lair ‘s Siffrin? More like Sif’s Out AU based on this memory exclusive to it. This one got a lil long, as I think y’all can see. Also I enjoy writing Odile. Apologies for any formatting opposed, I wrote this on my computer but had to upload on my phone.

No major CW’s beyond just “Odile questioning Siffrin’s mental health.” Enjoy!

It hadn’t been too long since that one loop. That loop where they found out just how good Siffrin was at pretending to be fine. How convenient that not long after, Odile got a skill to deal with it. Memory of Liar. It allowed her to know when Siffrin was lying (albeit not by omission, but still). Ideally, it would be a niche skill at best, one to keep on for a loop or two and forget that she had-

“Hey Odile!”

Siffrin began his usual greetings. Seems Mirabelle reminded him about the clocktower “sleepover” this time. She must be feeling nostalgic; they’d all planned to meet up at the clocktower afterwards anyways, so there was no need to send Siffrin on a quest to go talk to them all, but given how low he got, how useless he felt, it made sense for her to give him a task. Would it be too cynical to say Mirabelle was establishing a baseline? Perhaps.

“So, what will you do after?” Siffrin asked her.

After. Gems, at this rate such a thing felt laughable, but she bit her tongue well enough. What had she planned to do after this? So much time had been spent on loops and the breaking of them that leaving Dormont was starting to feel like more of an impossibility than beating the King ever had been.

“I’ll probably go back to Ka Bue,” she said. It seemed like the next most logical step. She had a home there, after all. Besides, it might be nice to get far, far away from Dormont.

“And wrap up your research?”

“Research?” Oh, right. Her fake research.

“Your research into cultures-ology?”

Had he said that last time? When was the last time Mirabelle called for a sleepover? Gems, she didn’t like this.

“Cultures-ology isn’t a field of research, Siffrin.”

“But it is the field of research you spent your life trying to create…”

“No,” she said bluntly. He looked a little put off by that, so she changed the topic the most natural way she could. “What about you? What will you do after we beat the king?” If they ever get to leave Dormont, that is.

“Come up with my own field of research.”

… huh?

Something about what he said there, it sat oddly in her gut. It felt… wrong. But how could-

Right. Memory of Liar. He was lying. Of course he was, why wouldn’t he be? She knew from the start that was likely a joke, and a joke could count as a lie, she supposed. Maybe this ability wasn’t particularly discerning. She’d have to test that too, wouldn’t she? Would it activate at anything that wasn’t true? Or would it only activate if Siffrin was actively trying to deceive?

As Siffrin walked out again, only then did it occur to her… what did the rogue intend to do when he got out? Well, a question for the others, she supposed.

------

They were back at Dormont. It wasn’t of much use, asking the others. Bonnie and Mirabelle couldn’t remember off the top of their heads, but apparently Siffrin had told Isabeau they intended to start a comedy club… That sounded considerably more likely than them going into research, but she was still inclined to double check. It was nothing wasting a whole loop over, but they’d agreed that next time they looped back to Dormont, Mirabelle would tell Siffrin about the clocktower, and Isabeau and Odile would “switch places,” so to speak. She needed to be the one to hear him, so she had to come last.

As Siffrin got up sleepily, almost tauntingly laid back, he greeted Mirabelle saying the nap was a solid 9 out of ten… The thought that their rogue was rubbing in their lack of exhaustion was illogical, something she knew all too well, but maybe she wasn’t in a particularly giving mood as she squatted in the bushes against the protest of her knee. A few more pleasantries were shared and…

“Where will you go after?”

“Oh! You know… maybe a pilgrimage? I-I suppose this all kiiiiiinda already counted as a pilgrimage, but, um… does it?” Does it if she only half remembers some of it, so much time taken over by these last few days? Or was Odile projecting here?

It didn’t matter.

“What about you though Siffrin. What will you do after?” Mirabelle asked.

Odile watched him like a hawk as he had his little smile, looking up to the sky, and, “Go on a pilgrimage too, maybe.”

“Oh! That’d be lovely,” Mirabelle said.

If only it were true.

Odile waited for them to get to the store—the store she often started at but currently housed Isabeau—forcing herself up and stumbling like a drunk from the woods, knee seizing up all the way. Mirabelle rushed over, using a bit of healing craft on her.

“Are you okay?”

“Fine, I’m fine…” Odile said, though sighed in relief at the healing craft easing the pain.

“… so?” Mirabelle said.

“He was lying. He has no intention to go on a pilgrimage.”

Mirabelle sighed but nodded. Neither of them were surprised, really?

“Can you even go on a pilgrimage if all you do is travel anyways? What’s even the difference?” Odile muttered to herself. “Ah, no use now. I have to catch up before Isabeau runs out of ways to stall.” Thankfully it was a short walk. The door was open, she simply had to linger near it.

“What will you do after?” Siffrin asked Isabeau.

Seems she was right on time.

“Eh, I’ll probably just go back to Jouvente. Not sure about rejoining the Defenders, not after they left Mira, but maybe I’ll try some clothing design?”

“Oh? I didn’t know you were interested in that. That sounds great, Isa!”

“Heh, thanks Sif. But what about you? What will you do when we beat the King?”

Assuming Isabeau did a good enough job of recapping what he said before, presumably Siffrin’s answer would be the same…

“Start a comedy club!”

… that one wasn’t true either? She’d honestly thought it might be, or at least that it was fifty fifty, but no. Almost a shame, it fit all too well. Then again, it meant more people were spared his puns…

She tuned out the rest in favor of trying to get a head start on making it to the East side of town. Siffrin tended to dawdle when left to his own devices, but still would be nice to find a way to listen in that wouldn’t be physically painful this time…

Oh right. There’s a building here, right near Bonnie. She’d basically gone blind to it, considering it no more than any other house: pointless. Though she did know the open phrase, well, the only thing of value was the “Long Thingy Thing” (as Bonnie put it), and they didn’t really need to go through the trouble of crafting a bomb at this point. That said, she did know the open phrase, so she could probably get inside, and she could hear Bonnie, but could she hear Siffrin? Then again, once Siffrin was near Bonnie, she could sneak closer.

And so she did. It went off almost disappointingly easily. Gems alive, what she wouldn’t give for something to go awry in a way that would let her dig her teeth into something again. But no, no. This was more efficient. (Everything was efficiency these days, that’s how Siffrin got so bad).

She crept closer as the two talked. Siffrin was needling Bonnie, and Bonnie was rising to the bait. Was it genuine irritation and stress, or just their mimicry of it? She wasn’t sure, maybe both. Not too long in, the question came up.

“Well what about you, Frin? What are you gonna do?”

“I’ll go to space.”

… she didn’t even need the Memory equipped to know that that was a bald-faced lie, but she supposed that confirmation was nice? Well this one was a waste of time. Best to try to slip out towards the favor tree and play her own part.

Four different answers, none of them true. Why would he hide what he intended to do after? Maybe earlier in their adventure together she would’ve assumed that it was for nefarious purposes, but if he was an assassin on the behalf of the King or anything like that, he’d probably have done something to stop them on at least one of the occasions that they killed him. Whatever happened with Euphraise usually seemed centered on him, but he always looked shocked, so it was unlikely he expected it any more than the rest of them had the first time.

So if not foul play, then why? Some charitable part of her mind wanted to say his plans were just embarrassing, but…

As they’d recently learned the hard way, their little rogue wasn’t nearly as fine as he seemed. All it took was one day of them taking the lead a bit too much for him to consider himself a useless idiot. He rarely spoke of home. Never spoke of loved ones, at least not for more than a few sentences. He’d taken losing his eye almost too well. She wouldn’t say that he was at risk of becoming a Sadness or doing something willingly stupid, but the more she thought on it, the more things painted a picture she didn’t like the look of, but couldn’t afford to look away from either.

If she didn’t know better, she could mistake him for a ghost. A spirit. Maybe even some Expression. Nothing but a being floating through to help. But she’d seen him eat, seen his blood splatter on the floor, heard his gasps and screams at hard hits. She’d seen him lose an eye. Ghosts didn’t do that. He was flesh and blood yet missing so much he seemed almost insubstantial. Was he aware of this one some level? And what could do that to a person? Gems alive, she knew he had bad memory, but maybe she should’ve been delving deeper into it. Why hadn’t she? It wasn’t like her to see something so strange, to see someone start stories over and over that never reach an end, to see him speak of things and lose his train of thought halfway through, and she just…

Never questioned this?

Gems alive, her head was pounding along with the beat of her heart, but she screwed her eyes shut and blocked the world out, determined to follow this rabbit hole down. Something was wrong here, and maybe if she could puzzle out what, if she could find the missing piece, she could somehow make him whole again and, expressions willing, maybe that’d be the key to fixing this whole mess. Maybe it’d set them free. She just had to figure out why-

“Hey, Odile, are you okay?”

She jolted, whipping her head around to see, “Gems, Siffrin. You startled me…”

“Sorry,” he said. “Thinking on your wish?”

“Hah, no, I already made that,” she said. A stupid wish to win a coin flip that came to nothing in the end. And unimportant. She had to figure out… figure out…

Had to figure out what Siffrin intended to do with his life, right? Yes, that’s what she’d been doing.

“I was just… trying to figure out what to do afterwards,” she said. Maybe it was manipulative, but if she pretended she needed suggestions, maybe he’d offer something more tangible?

“Hmm? You don’t already know? I figured you’d wrap up your research.”

No, that’s right. He already had that idea in mind, didn’t he? She let out a bitter chuckle. “I’ll let you in on a secret. There is no research, Siffrin. It was just a convenient lie to explain why I’m here.”

He looked at her with a hard to read expression. “But… huh???”

They were off balance. Good. Maybe it’d trick him into saying something real.

“Yes, yes, sorry to give the game away, but I guess I realized that if I don’t admit it now, I might never. And I wouldn’t want to actually beat the King and then have to figure out what next. Plus I figure if I have a plan for after, if I have a goal, I might be more driven to reach it. Whatever helps, yes? So, any ideas?”

He was looking at her like she’d grown a second head, clearly thrown off. “You could… actually start researching something? Or, um… aren’t you writing a book?”

“My journal? That’s just personal notes. It’d be nonsense to anyone else.”

“Oh.”

She waited but, no, they weren’t offering anything up, were they. She’d have to take the offensive.

“What about you, Siffrin? What do you plan to do after?”

“Oh, uh…” he looked around and shrugged. “I haven’t really given it much thought.”

… not a lie. Interesting…

“Oh? Why not? I mean, you’re not even from Vaugaurde, you must have joined for some reason, right?” She could list theories, but that’d likely give him an out. She was wise to his game. At least half his answers, maybe more, were just mimicking what the other person intended to do. Otherwise it’s just what they’d most likely want to hear, save for perhaps telling Bonnie they’d go to space. An interesting outlier, that one. It seemed innocuous, but maybe it was important?

No, focus now. Theorize later.

Siffrin squirmed a little and finally chuckled awkwardly, offering an awkward shrug. “I didn’t really have anything better to do…”

And gems alive, he was not lying.

“I… see.”

Maybe she should let him go, but she needed to know one more thing first…

“And after we all go our own ways, you’ll be alright, right?”

“I guess I’ll go back to how I was before.”

Not a lie, but not an answer either. “And were you happy before?”

“Of course!”

She needed to talk to the others about this.

——————

I prefer tea, but buy me a Kofi?

[felikatze]

QoL as Kindness: ISAT's diagetic tutorials

This is the hopefully first of a series of posts I'll be doing reinterpreting ISAT's Loop through the lens of START AGAIN: a prologue's context. As such....

Major spoilers for both ISAT (all acts, including optional content) and SASASAP (all endings).

One of the biggest differences between ISAT and SASASAP is it’s QoL – it’s Quality of Life. QoL refers to all the little things that make a game just that little bit more playable; quick to navigate menus, quicksaving… tutorials.

It’s not really a surprise that SASASAP is as RPGmaker as RPGmaker gets. This isn’t a criticism, just an observation, and also a compliment to how much Adrienne’s skills with the engine improved between releases. Still, there’s some things that ISAT has over SASASAP.

ISAT’s QoL is absolutely essential to making it bearable. Anyone ever watch an ISAT playthrough where the player sighed in relief as the tutorial on picking where you loop came up?

SASASAP lacks a lot of ISAT’s QoL because it’s an earlier project without a studio backing it, but what impresses me is how this change ties into narrative.

Because the greatest chunk of ISAT’s greatest QoL is provided by Loop.

Even before you ever meet them, they’re already over your shoulder. Loop is the tutorial, speaking to you inside your brain. It’s genius, in that no player is ever going to question this. Hell, SASASAP’s movement tutorial is the exact same thing with less flavoring

This reframes what the QoL is – it’s not just a convenience to the player, it’s a convenience to Siffrin, too. It’s diegetic. It’s not something the game is giving you, it’s something Loop is giving you. Let’s look at what Loop gives you, and more importantly, why.

Zone Out

The first of the QoL features I want to talk about is the Zone Out function, the absolute bread and butter of not making this game a total slog.

The Zone Out feature as is did not exist in SASASAP (because Adrienne didn’t know how to do it yet) – instead, some doubled scenes let you just skip them entirely outright. There’s only two extremes: listen to all of it again, or none of it.

ISAT’s zone out system is much more dynamic, since it fast forwards dialogue line by line, letting you zone in whenever you’d like, and forcing you to zone in whenever a) something notably new happens, or b) whenever Siffrin speaks.

The way this feature is introced by Loop is kind of genius. Because Loop’s tutorial is about one thing – it’s okay to skip.

“You might miss what your party is saying, but who cares, right? If you make them mad, you can always loop back and they'll have forgotten all about it!”

It’s a cruel joke, or at least it seems that way on the surface. It’s also genuine advice. And a cruel joke at the same time. For Siffrin, freshly starting the loops, this is scandalous, but for Loop, who’s long since desensitized, it’s the same old same old.

What Loop’s doing here, by joking about Siffrin not listening to the party, is alliviate Siffrin’s guilt when they inevitably take Loop up on the offer. Because, even though Loop loves their party members…

From SASASAP, when sitting outside the bathroom:

(Will you get farther this time?) (Will you live this time?) (Or are you stuck listening to the same lines forever?) (…) (Stars, you’re so tired.)

Loop knows intimately well that Siffrin is going to drive themself insane trying to be a people pleaser every single loop, so this joke is telling the outright – don’t bother.

At first, Siffrin (and the player) still might. I really enjoyed reading the same conversations five times minimum because they’re fun and I’m deranged, but at some point I did start skipping them. And it was a relief to know there wouldn’t be anything new.

Siffrin: “Should I check everything again?” Loop: “You mean, should you check the same barrels, the same closets, the same objects on tables every loop?” Loop: “I mean, you can, but… You know things won’t change, right?” Loop: “If you really want to get a certain item again, or listen to your friends repeat something funny, you should!” Loop: “I personally would only check two or three things every loop, and ignore the rest.” Loop: “It will just make you crazy to expect something to change, when nothing will.” Loop: “All that might change is your reaction to it!”

The game is telling you, Loop is telling Siffrin, don’t drive yourself insane playing, please. The characters aren’t going to remember if you skipped something.

In the course of my script wizard activities, I’ve gotten an in-depth view of just how much that actually holds up. Pretty much all major differences are by Act, unrelated of how often you’ve done something. Minor variations apply for other things, but… those variations are minor.

And this also points out what all those variations are. Siffrin’s reactions!

Loop’s pre-empting Siffrin’s guilt, cuz they probably felt it themself. Hell, we do know they felt the pressure to perform and make sure nobody notices anything’s wrong, in SASASAP! Right up until the finale, Loop was driving themself up the wall.

(You have to act, you can't crack, you have to fake it and play it exactly as you did the first time for the whole way through so your friends don't find out anything is wrong) (You don't want to know what would happen if they knew their quest was in vain) (If they knew their quest for justice and change always ends in stillness and death!)

Acting everything out perfectly is one of the ending paths for SASASAP, which results in… complete and utter failure. Obviously.

(You acted perfectly normally, didn't you?) (Nothing out of place, nothing weird, every line the same as it might've been the first time?) (Ah…That was your mistake, wasn't it…?) (Because… Didn't your very first time… end exactly like this?) (The King throws the Housemaiden's body onto the floor again.)

Zoning out for too many conversations actually awards weird points in SASASAP, locking you out of the Perfect Ending. On the other hand, acting “perfectly” in ISAT… has no awards whatsoever. No special scene or or optional event or anything at all. You get nothing for paying attention!!!

So spare yourself the pain already, m’kay?

(On that note: I don’t think Loop not being sarcastic about it would’ve like… worked. At the start of ACT 2, Siffrin isn’t going to believe Loop when they say “Stop forcing yourself to relive the same thing over and over because you’ll start seeing your friends as disposable actors and lose touch with reality.” That all comes later, when Siffrin can look back on Loop’s words and see how right they were.)

Loop Back

The second biggest sigh of relief in any given ISAT playthrough is probably this specific tutorial.

Loop graciously shows you that you don’t need to loop back all the way to the beginning every single time. You can pick and choose where to go, even going forward by paying up with Memories of Skirmish.

This is a feature SASASAP does not possess, for the reason that it is much, much shorter, only covering about as much as one floor of ISAT’s three floor House.

But… since this is a character showing this to you, Loop showing this to you, we can ask… when did Loop learn this? After all, START AGAIN, Loop’s loops, do not have this feature.

“It'll save you time, so it's important, so listen up!”

This feature not existing in SASASAP means this is a thing that Loop did not know exists during their own time as Siffrin.

And that’s just the thing, isn’t it? SASASAP’s Siffrin does not know how to do this. They cannot pick and choose where they end up, as demonstrated wonderfully by SASASAP’s True Ending. There’s an even more wonderful implication, though –

On SASASAP’s Perfect End path, when exiting the final room before the King, Isabeau says this:

Isabeau: “…I'm glad you're feeling better, though!” Siffrin: (…?) “What do you mean…?” Isabeau: “Oh!!! Um, you were…” Isabeau: “Well! You were acting a little weird when we were way closer to the Castle's entrance……” Isabeau: “You weren't really listening to us, you were kinda smiling the way you do when you're actually not happy…” Isabeau: “…and you like, almost acted like you knew exactly where you were going?” Isabeau: “But clearly you're feeling better now! You're acting just like normal!!!”

SASASAP’s Siffrin knew how to do this, somehow managed to lock themself into the House’s last floor… and then forgot how to get back. By making this tutorial, Loop is ensuring that Siffrin never will.

“What can I do next?” – SASASAP’s greatest flaw

So, if you’ve had the pleasure of playing START AGAIN START AGAIN START AGAIN: a prologue yourself (as you should), then you’ve probably faced this scenario, or some variation of it:

I got to the end, I died to the King, but… what do I do next? The game tells me to go for the extremes, but how do I do that?

(edit: apparently some of yall just managed to speedrun sasasap in two loops. You're gonna need to stay with me here, please. Suspend your disbelief a bit, because a lot of people [including me] were dumbasses about it)

Maybe you try another loop, but just get the same ending again (or a differnet one, depending on a coinflip). You’re getting frustrated. Getting the Perfect Ending demands pinpoint precision to avoid everything weird, the True Ending demands good memorization of every single damn key in the game, and the order you do everything in. (Though, to be fair, the requirements on that one are actually more merciful than one might expect.)

Point is, in SASASAP, it’s incredibly easy to get stuck in that endless loop of “What the fuck do I do now?” It’s not uncommon to think you got it right only to get the same result anyways. What does one do in this situation?

They consult a guide, obviously.

START AGAIN’s ending requirements are frustrating. They are. When I tried to go for either the Perfect or the True Ending, I saved inside every single room, just so I could get right back to it when I inevitably fucked up five times minimum. This is both criticism… and praise. Because Loop is the major reason that ISAT does not suffer from this same problem.

Whenever you’re stuck in ISAT, Loop is just a single loop or call away at any times. And besides that, no plot requirement in ISAT demands nearly as many moving pieces all at once as SASASAP does – the “Sus Route” has been relegated to an optional ACT 4 exclusive event, instead of the game’s True Ending.

Instead of consulting an external guide on how to progress, you have one right there in the game, always ready with the next tip. They’re not infallible, mind you – enough time in Isatcord’s #game-help proves that, but Loop solved all of the moments I got stuck and frustrated in ISAT for me.

(Primarily that one time you need to figure out that a photo is similar to being stuck in time. That moment in particular is actually commendable, as you need to ask Loop about it twice before they tell you, leaving you a last shot to try and figure it out on your own.) Loop is a feature that nullifies SASASAP’s greatest flaw in its successor, and they choose to do so.

Memory of Keys

In my humble opinion, Loop does this because… they do not want Siffrin to suffer as they did. They want Siffrin to escape. And there is no greater example of their kindness than how Loop treats keys.

First of all, all keys in the game have a sparkling effect on them if you’ve picked them up at least once before, making it immediately clear where in the room they are. This means you don’t need to search every single room top to bottom for them, as you had to do for any keys and Star Crests in SASASAP. It’s some nice QoL that just means you don’t have to re-search the same area if you happened to forget which specific cupboard the key was in.

Key point being: SASASAP did not have this feature. In SASASAP, you did have to memorize where all the keys are, and doing so is expected if you want the True Ending.

Loop does not want Siffrin to have to do this. Because…

From SASASAP’s True End:

(The torch in the infirmary? That’s important!) (The key in the book? Soooo important.) (The names of your friends, that have been by your side throughout this entire adventure?) (Not worth remembering.)

Compared to ISAT’s ACT 2:

Siffrin: “How come I can see where the keys are?” Loop: “Whaaaaat? You caaaaaan? How can that beeeeeee?” Siffrin: “Is it thanks to you?” Loop: “Maybe.” Loop: “I figured you'd have other things to worry about than where a stupid key is.” Loop: “No need to thank me.”

To Loop, that they memorized the House’s layout over their friends’ names is a defining moment to their own failures. After all, in all likelihood, the True End of SASASAP is the last loop before they called it quits. It’s a traumatic experience from them, one that came from having to remember all the dumb fucking keys.

They do not want Siffrin to experience this. They do not want Siffrin to have to memorize the House, to push away what actually matters in favor of efficiency. So Loop is directly, personally, giving them a boon, so that Siffrin does not have to.

Conclusion

There’s probably more tutorial things I could talk about, but I feel like you’re seeing the pattern now, even if I don’t bring up saving level ups or keeping equipment or the “You’re stuck” signifier, least of all cuz they don’t have direct points of comparison with SASASAP like my other examples do (SASASAP has no changeable equipment, and saving levels doesn’t matter if you only have one floor, and you can’t softlock either.). So.

Loop’s tutorials all belie a fundamental kindness to their character. Everything that made their own experience trapped in the timeloop just that bit worse, they’re choosing to do away with it for Siffrin. They are choosing to make Siffrin’s time here easier.

Zoning out too much lead to them never paying attention to their friends, forgetting their names, so they make sure that Siffrin can still zone back in whenever something new happens.

Loop trapped themself for years on the final floor, locking themself out of progress that might lie further back, so they’re ensuring Siffrin knows exactly how to loop forwards and backwards so it doesn’t happen again.

Loop lets Siffrin keep equipment across loops to cut down on time spent doing the exact same thing over and over.

They are saving Siffrin time, and they are giving Siffrin comfort. At every single turn, Loop is saving Siffrin from the same pitfalls they fell into without anyone to guide them out.

It's honestly incredible to transform an increase in skill into an actual narrative element. Yes, SASASAP sucks more to play. But ISAT sucks less, because Loop wants it to. It's the perfect marriage of real world circumstance and storytelling. I could... probably pull another comparison here, saying it's like a game and its remake - overhauled graphics, expanded story, and loads and loads of QoL, because the makers of the remake realized something. They love the original, but parts of it do suck, and there's so much that can be done to make a new player's experience smoother. Metanarrative commentary,,,, woah,,,,,

Every single one of these QoL elements I’ve mentioned function as a crutch for a player’s failing memory, but also Siffrin’s (similar to what I talked about in my previous essay on ISAT’s ludonarrative - the player and Siffrin are always in sync, even in how tutorials benefit them). Loop doesn’t know the player exists though (only the Change God does), so they do everything for Siffrin.

To keep Siffrin from forgetting. To help Siffrin focus on what’s important. To make Siffrin’s journey just a little bit less miserable. Loop directly improves ISAT’s QoL. For you. For Siffrin.

From Loop’s introduction:

Loop: “See, I’m useful! I’m very useful! That’s why I’m here, helpful Loop.” Siffrin: “Why are you helping me?” Loop: “…” Loop: “Because I think you should be helped.” Loop: “I won’t always have the answers, but… I think having someone on your side to talk to is better than dealing with this alone.” Loop: “Right?”

From Loop’s hangout:

“But it’s fine.” “Whether you believe me or not, I’m here to help you.” “So you can escape this loop.”

And finally, from the start of ACT 3:

Siffrin: “Are you really here to help me?” Loop: “Stardust…” Loop: “…” Loop: “Yes.” Loop: “If you can believe anything, believe that.” Loop: “I asked to be here, so I could help you.”

And I do believe them. Loop’s feelings on Siffrin are… complex, to say the least. They love Siffrin, and they hate him in equal measure. They’re jealous, and spiteful, but underneath everything…

In SASASAP, if you die to a Sadness thrice, you get this monologue:

(Sometimes, when you loop back here…) (In the corner of your eye, you can sometimes see someone that looks just like you.) (Is it a you from another loop? Remnants of your past failures?) (Are you going crazy?) (May they succeed where you cannot.)

[patch-of-roses]

In Stars and Time AU where everyone is looping. However, each member can only remember the loops that they personally reset.

So, everyone thinks that they're the only one stuck in a time loop. The only person who actually knows what's happening is Loop, who is having a very frustrating two days.

Siffrin: "Since I remember, isn't there a chance? A chance they'd all remember?"

Loop, who just had this conversation with Isabeau last loop and is currently trying to bottle up seven different layers of anger and exhaustion: "... Who, your party?"

I'm imagining Odile determining that she's currently in loop 24 despite knowing for certain that she's only looped back four times so far.

Mirabelle pretending that she doesn't know about the Carrot Method shield skill when Siffrin tells her about it before thinking, "Wait a second, they shouldn't know about that either!"

Bonnie trying to zone out of the conversation about what to do should any of them die (it doesn't work).

Isabeau recognizing that for some reason everyone seems a lot more tired and stressed than they were at the beginning.

I thought of this as a funny concept and wondered how long it would take for the party to communicate with each other before realizing that, if they don't talk about it, they're going to find out at the end of Act 3.

[guided-by-stars]

Everyone’s always talking about facades in ISAT. Loop’s facade weaving itself into their true self, Siffrin’s acting breaking down over hundreds of performances, how Isabeau uses masks to cover his insecurities. But not all facades are constructed purposefully and not all are so consciously maintained.

I think a lot of people underestimate Mirabelle. Both in our world, and in theirs. She’s very disarming, isn’t she? Anxious, biting her nails, conciliatory, kind, overly careful with others. The first member of the party, the protagonist, but always letting everyone but herself take the lead, except when dealing the final blow on the King. You’d be forgiven for thinking she’s shy. But she’s not, is she? She was given incredible responsibility by her mentor that could, by all her knowledge, be dead, and instead of crumpling under that pressure, like many might have, she seeks out the Defenders to ask for their help, and even after they deny her, she ventures out, with only one person by her side, unquestionably dedicated to her quest to save Vaugarde.

She’s incredibly brave! And smart too! It’s hard to stand out in that regard, when you’re traveling with a Researcher, head always buried in books, reached the age of 40, almost twice as long on this world as you have been, and a man who grew up the literal stereotype of a nerd, who still knows how to calculate numbers in his head in an instant as if it’s nothing, and this mysterious traveller who has been disarming all these traps for you and finding all these keys and has an incredible number of random skills and survived on his own for how many years? But Mirabelle is clever and perceptive! And the most emotionally intelligent and least repressed out of anyone there. She always notices when Siffrin is feeling awful and attempting to hide it. In Dormont, in Act 3, she asks if he’s okay, and when he says that he is, she straight up pushes back against it and says that she’s pretty sure that he’s lying about being fine. She’s aware that Siffrin has put up a wall, she just doesn’t like overstepping. If she was the type who didn’t care about pushing boundaries, she would have confronted him far before Act 5. And she knows how to do so many things!! She’s taken over a hundred classes. One thing about Mirabelle, is she’s absolutely ravenous to learn. Everything.

Sure, she holds some things back. She’s not open about how much responsibility she feels has been placed on her back, and is nervous about how others will perceive her lack of interest in dating, but overall, she’s far more open about her own feelings than anyone else in the party. When she’s anxious, she says it. When she needs help, she accepts it. Now this. Is crazy.

And then there’s her interest in the schadenfreude of it all. The morbid. Mild mannered Mirabelle loves seeing little guys being put through… the horrors. (Oh Mirabelle…you would love In Stars and Time) She has a collection of gory books in her bedroom, and takes the horror anthology into her pocket when you find it. Part of it is because seeing others in danger makes her aware of how safe she is by comparison, part of it is the catharsis, the emotional relief of seeing the Chase being fulfilled. But I think some of it is just fascination and curiosity. As mentioned earlier, she desires very deeply to Learn Everything. Learning how someone might be torn to bloody pieces by the Beast? Part of that.

Mirabelle is kind, sweet, and cute. Yes. But she is also incredibly capable, clever and perceptive, tremendously brave and courageous, and is fascinated with horror and gore and danger. When Euphrasie blessed her, said that she was the only person who could have done it, she was right. I feel like people in general are prone to flattening out optimistic and positive characters and seeing them as more shallow, while digging deeper into more negative and externally emotionally turbulent ones. Mirabelle is not shallow!!!

And all of that is said without any mention of her fixation on Changing!! I am going to explode!! This post is too long already but maybe I’ll make another one about her unhealthy fixation on always Changing and how that drives almost everything she does, both before and during the same!! It is so core to her psyche! Ahhh fantasy religion!!

[oriorchids]

hi tumblr. hands you a vega

more thoughts under a read more

they're for a fic i will post eventually (thought they do not show up for like 10 chapters and only meet the party after like 30) and they're my silly little goober of a human loop design. except they're kind of very obviously not human aside from the head. and even then they glow and emit sparkles wherever they go.

their expression is constantly ^w^ until it isn't because they forgot they have a visible mouth. they disappeared from existence and then their survival instinct kicked in and they wished themself back to life. they fell from the sky like a pmd protagonist

they're a walking sadness beacon and have been telling everyone they've met that they're a star that fell from the sky one day for no particular reason. no one where they landed knows who the saviours are because news is slow and they froze like a day into the king's march across vaugarde to dormont. when they first fell back to the earth they were threatened at scissors-point because they were a stranger who fell into someone's garden

they don't become a housemaiden but they do stay in a house for a while since they need to get their bearings. vega didn't have a name for a little while because they didn't want to be loop and couldn't be siffrin, so they just said that stars didn't have names up until they remembered the star vega and decided that's who they were now

gameplay-wise (because i always have gameplay thoughts):

vega is completely typeless and deals typeless damage. using craft they can change their type and do whatever type damage they want, which changes their basic attack until they use another type-changing craft

they probably still have the better healing skill (healy-bealy) they just call it something else. they also have make up the time which they also call something else

they have no qualms about using (just attack.) it's just typeless now. or whatever craft type they are when using it

(speaking of craft types, my dnd brain has been seeing paper as slashing, scissors as piercing, and rock as bludgeoning for a while so. putting that down)

while they start in the 50-somethings level-wise they get to 75 pretty quickly. how? well... sadness magnet

post-game party member that's pretty strong

they share the darkless high-heeled boots with my other human loop (from whumptober). the constellations in their hat are ursa major, lyra, and virgo. vega got the base dress from a friend and edited it while they had time. they also turned their cloak into a cape. the hat is from the universe. it's not even the starry hat, that's in siffrin's hands. it's just a universe-given free wishcraft hat

[mari-lair]

I have so many questions about your Researcher!Siffrin! How did they meet and join the party? Since Siffrin is the researcher, what are the rest of the party’s roles? What would the King’s reaction be to Researcher Siffrin? Does the party react differently to Siffrin losing his eye since he was already partly blind before they met the party? (I’d imagine there still being a guilty feeling about it, but Siffrin’s unique sight situation would make it a bit more complicated) Does Researcher Siffrin get stuck in a time loop or teach the party member wishcraft?

Overall, absolutely love your Researcher Siffrin to bits! Would love to see more of them and how they interact with the party!

Thank you! I'm so happy you like them :D

I have very blurry party plans, I am trying to get a feel for Siffrin first before figuring out everyone's else's place in the au and how they interact with each other . As of now though (which means this is a placeholder and can be changed) Bonnie will be the housemaiden, Isabeau the traveler, Mira the fighter, and Odile the cook.

I am not sure how they let Siffrin join them, cause honestly? Siffrin is not ready for an adventure. They have problems being in cities and are bad at fighting.

living their day-to-day life after being dragged out of the safety of his home is hell to the Researcher. His lack of Vauguardian knowledge + his rusty social skill + passion/study in a culture (his culture!!) that no one takes seriously + excellent hearing + tendency to just run when he is overwhelmed make it so not only is a normal conversation very taxing for them, but it is also very easy for people to say microaggressions, even the well-intentioned/genuinely worried people do it. (I have so many comic sketches of this poor fella being mistreated by accident... save them save them!) So they are constantly associating people with being stressed. They don't want to stay with people for too long.

On one hand it means they will visibly dread entering the party of savior, but on the other hand, I know he will be the one to approach them and try to join them cause "if we defeat the king I can go back to my lovely isolated home, oh Universe please let me go home!" ---> is being genuine in his desperation to go home but will have a "!!!!" moment when he forms a connection with his party members.

I do know siffrin won't be the one-time looping though, i will give them that much of a mercy. I don't know who will though yguytfgyt

Siffrin will sympathize a bit too much with the king. Again, no solid plans for it yet but I do know they'll say "I remember" about his question, and talk about constellations.

Same with his eye, my plans are vague for it as of now.

In battle the researcher is really cool tho: They have no knives! he uses a book. They are more of a support/debuff person than an attack one and start as the weakest. His HP is god awful, like 300, he is not a fighter, he is not fast, and he gets KO easily. They do learn new skills the fastest though so leveling him up? It's absolutely worth it please keep him alive, when he in a high enough level to get attack skills they are an absolute powerhouse (still low hp though)

[starlightshore]

Just wanted to pop in and say, if you were to give us a percentage, what are the chances that ghost-frin turns out to be a delusion? :)

There are no known percentages; I'd prefer the story to exist only from Loop's POV. We're never going to know the real truth any better than they could, which is to say, "Good luck!"

But as to your second ask, everything is theoretically still possible as Loop-only. Before Ghost!Frin was revealed, Loop rationalized the "walking back to the House" scream-cry episode as crying while sleepwalking

granted, that's stupid, but as spectators, we can come up with a better answer. We've seen how badly Loop spaces out + Loop could be blacking out the memories of crying. Their whole Thing so far has been "deny reality, DENY DENY!" as hard as they can, it's not out of the realm for them to do any of this.

All that said -Siffrin said they had accidentally made a "death wish." Wishes are very much real in this universe, so Siffrin surviving in some traumatic wish-altering way would be in line with this world. It fits in my eyes because it's basically Loop and Siffrin switching their places as the "wish-altered ghost."

BUT, none of that means every time we see Ghost!Frin that it's 100% really them. We already know in ch8 it very much was not them speaking then.

Basically:

[transcript of meme below since its text heavy:]

[img id:

4 panel comic of Human Loop from Place Your Bets on Winning Hats fanfic.

Loop is doing the poses that Gru does in the original version of this meme, but now with a much more forced smile.

Panel 1: Loop declares the following: "Steal my alternative timeline self's body. Nobody will ever know!"

Panel 2: Loop mimes "small" with their hands. Text: "Use the skills I gained by timelooping to cope with the 'little' trauma I have"

Panel 3: Loop smiles awkwardly at the camera, grin too big. Text: "Rely on it so heavily I lose all sense of time and reality and can't communicate how much I NEED TO LEAVE OH STARS HELP ME"

Panel 4: Same text. Loop reacts with an even more strained smile, looking pained.

id end.]

[str8rat]

WHAT IF THERE WERE 'LOST SOUL' ( AKA UNDERTALE STYLE ) ENCOUNTERS IN THE ISAT/FUNGER AU?????

-> REMIND

( You ask the Lost Soul to remind you of a word you've been searching for, trying to pretend being annoyed with your memory issues. She's not sure why, but she feels urged to jog your memory.. )

-> TIME CRAFT

( You remind the Lost Soul of when she used Time Craft to stop you from looping back. Her fist seems to clench on her side. )

-> MEMORY OF SECRET QUEST

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent searching for a Familytale. You remind her of the conversation you've had, about searching for a home, about feeling "other". Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

-> PUN

( You say a really terrible pun. The Lost Soul seems to love it, quickly bursting with a loud, infectious laughter. Something about this seems so very familiar to him.. )

-> TOUCH

( Hesitantly, you reach out towards the Lost Soul, trying to take his hand. He seems to become nervous, his hand becoming clammy in your own. His fingers twitch. He seems to be remembering something.. )

-> MEMORY OF STARGAZING

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent Stargazing. You remind him that you have never, ever been ashamed of him. Not even a little bit. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

-> POINT

( You point to the Lost Soul's nails, trying to mimic the same motion you always do when she's anxiously biting them. Somehow, this seems familiar to her.. )

-> CHANGE

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've met the God of Change. She doesn't know why, but she feels an odd, bitter feeling in her chest at the mere mention of the God. )

-> MEMORY OF FAITH

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent together on that bench in Dormont. You remind her that she doesn't need to change for the sake of her fate, if she doesn't want to. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..!)

-> RECIPE

( You ask the Lost Soul if they'd like to make malanga fritters together. For some reason, they feel giddy at the thought. )

-> HUG

( You hug the Lost Soul carefully. They seem to stiffen in your hold. They're not sure why, but they really want to hug back.. )

-> MEMORY OF TRAINING

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent together, training in the outskirts of Dormont. You remind the Lost Soul, that they don't need to feel guilty for things that are out of their control. They are loved, and they're doing enough as it is. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

- - -

DID ANYONE THINK OF THAT??? I couldn't stop thinking about this. I'm not re-entering my undertale phase again please not again

Ok so this is still in relation to my Fear and hunger / Isat AU, so bear with me here. What if Loop's battle didn't only consist of fighting them? Maybe they've come to know some sort of forbidden craft, which stole the party's memories? Kind of trying to erase their memories of "Siffrin", and instead enter "Loop" in it's place. Since Loop doesn't want to, nor can, be Siffrin anymore- if they actually manage to kill Siffrin and insert themself instead of him into the timeline, they can live with their identity as Loop, with the party already loving them, having no memory of Siffrin. There would only be Loop. And then Loop could finally be happy, and have their family back.

And well everyone knows how it goes, Siffrin enters a battle with each of the party members, which is interesting i think, since we've only ever fought Sadnesses in canon Isat (not counting the king) Picturing the party attacking Siffrin would be awesome lmao. I also really like the idea of the memories we gain from each party member's hangout actually having more of a role rather than just being buffs or skills to learn.

here the memories of their hangouts are essential to jog their memory, and also i feel like it would be kind of cool if it granted them like the ability to remember those occurnaces, even though they know now that it didn't actually happen. not in this loop anyway. With them being aware of the loops by that point in the story, and aware of the hangouts happening countless times before in other loops, they would realize just how hard Siffrin tried to grow closer to them. I feel like that would tighten the party's ties together. so yeah, cool.

Siffrin jogs all of their memories, which causes them to either pass out or fight alongside them. i think the latter would be worse for loop though, having those people fighting them. It would hurt them a lot.

well, I still think Siffrin would fight Loop alone and everyone else would be passed out. I like to keep the 'Loop wins the fight' as the canon outcome here, with Loop not being able to bring himself to kill Siffrin after everythin that happened. Siffrrin comforts them, Loop cries, Siffrin cries, Loop fades away, the party soon wakes up and confronts Siffrin on what had happened, he passes the fuck out from craft exhaustion before he can explain anything. WOO

hope this made sense cuz it's like 2 am and my brain is NOT working rn

[your-average-art-dealer]

Cult of the Stars AU - Height Chart + Info

Might change some things here and there later but overall this is it!

Some info about the squad in the AU below the cut:

Siffrin (The Lamb): The Vessel of The King (The One Who Waits). Was brought back from The End (because they were forgotten along with all the rest of the sheep, who are the residents of The Island North of Vaugarde basically) to aid The King. Their Mission is to create a following for The King and to slay the bishops who banished him for trapping the island in a plague of darkness. But they aren't as faithful to The King as they first appear...

Bonnie, Bishop of the Green Crown (Leshy): Doesn't know how to run a cult properly, but the others are helping them. Their sister was originally the Bishop of the Green Crown after their parents were martyred, but because The King trapped her in darkness, the crown fell to Bonnie. Before the crown was corrupted, it was The Crown of Order, but it has been changed to Chaos. Still trying their best to be strong.

Mirabelle, Bishop of the Blue Crown (Kallamar): A pathetic wet thing (affectionate). Euphrasie was the Bishop of the Blue Crown before Mirabelle and like Bonnie, got it after Euphrasie was trapped. Before the crown was corrupted, it was The Crown of Healing, but it has been changed to Pestilence. Barely holding on to be honest, but she's got her friends to lean on.

Odile, Bishop of the Purple Crown (Shamura): The only one who's had their crown since before The King. Teaching everyone else how to run cults properly. Before the crown was corrupted it was The Crown of Concord, but it was been changed to War. The group mom, as always.

Isabeau, Bishop of the Yellow Crown (Heket): Same story as Bonnie and Mirabelle, Someone else had the crown, they got trapped, and he has it now. May or may not have a massive crush on The Lamb and would be totally okay with them killing him if it didn't mean The King would be closer to being freed. Before the crown was corrupted it was The Crown of the Bounty, but it has been changed to Famine. Built like a fridge and has the flirting skills of one too. Very nice though.

Loop (The Goat): A version of The Lamb who rose up against the king and failed. They are now relegated to helping Siffrin on their quest (which they do NOT care for)

And that's it! again some things might change but honestly, I'm pretty proud of it!

[also want to thank one of my friends, who listened to me blabber on about this and also gave some ideas as they too are an ISAT and COTL fan, love ya bro (platonic) ]

[radioroxx]

I wish to know more about the Bonnie and Siffrin double looping au. Please. Destroy me emotionally.

HI SORRY this took a bit to answer lol

thought a bit for how to answer this because on one hand i could spill literally everything i have thought of for this au up to this point (which, while a lot, hasnt actually reached some of the Angstier segments yet. i have vague ideas for those but still workshoppin’ and all). but ahh. i will save some stuff for separate askers maybe lol. for now heres some random points of no particular connection:

- i screwed up a lil in the og post by calling it a bonnie. “joins” the loops au. it is definitely a, bonnie is there from the start, au. i considered for a bit making it more of likee… they start to remember post death to the king, but that wouldve placed em in act 4, and while thats interesting i felt like there wasnt as much to explore there. yknow? (plus. bonnie death to the king is still Very much going to happen in the au. soo)

- bonnie doesnt meet loop until a couple loops in! this was partially loops decision, about being worried to meet the party + how they would react, buuut siffrin is only so good at keeping secrets from people whos memory cant be wiped through time travel, bonne does learn about loop, and insists on meeting them. the timeline is a lil vague in my head, and this interaction i dont have compleeetely planned out? but know that it takes place around the back half of act 2, after first death to the king

- speaking of loop- bon has a pretty interesting dynamic with them too :) this is before bonnie and siffrin are able to have the Talk about his eye, and while looping back and forth together has brought them closer regardless, bon still holds a grudge against them! at least, slightly. that combined with the fact that theyre talking to some… celestial beast? sick as hell star creature?? that GLOWS? bonnie takes the loop pretty easily (this is aided by the fact that siffrin seems to trust them well enough. not completely, he is ofc still skeptical of loop throughout, but its enough that bonnie will trust them too). however, you could probably imagine bonnie is much less tolerable to loops… nonsense. more willing to bite back if they say something out of hand, and more likely to react Badly if they say something upsetting. (still 50/50 of whether or not bonnie would take loops side if they say something mean about siffrin tho lol. depends on the insult. and obviously loop would never,, say stuff like that to bon). iii could keep going about them this dynamic is very fun to me

- the friendquests go relatively the same, the only difference being that it is actually siffrins idea to set bonnie up with that big feast for everyone. !! teamwork! the training session for bonnie becomes a multiple-loops thing, letting them build up their skills over time. i think with the stress of the loops, trying to figure out what to do next now that they know killing the king doesnt work- the talk about the eye and that whole freakout takes a bit to actually get to. i have ideas about how that would go too, because it would be Different and mean something New, but…. that would be so long to put here……… just know that they. still promise to look out for each other. promise to let themselves be helped.

you may be looking me in the eyes at this point with deep frowns and wondering… Pluto….. what are all these happy silly ideas, you are missing out on so much angst potential here ?? and to that i say uuuuuuhhhhhmmm i have thought about it. and look. i dont think having bonnie- or anyone really- joining in on the loops would really solve or lessen siffrins shit mental state. but theres definitely also a layer there, on top of breaking the loops, on top of keeping everyone happy, on top of figuring it out and finding out about their country and the king etc etc- theres a priority in keeping this kid happy too! he will, and has, died dozens of times in these loops, and that sucks, and it sucks that poor bon has to remember it all, so the least they can do is. try to keep things lighthearted around them. Pretend to be hopeful for their sake. encourage them to try out new recipes on different loops to see what sticks with the family! let them run their own experiments in the loops! let bonnie join in fights with sadnesses once their training goes well enough!! do their best to at least have some fun, and some time to relax. sticking to the excuse that its all to make bonnie feel better, without realizing how much thats helping themself as well.

aaand that all sorta falls apart in act four. bonnie is killed- directly, painfully- by the king, and siffrin distances himself as he is so prone to, falls back into trying to get everything done himself because hes the one whos “responsable” for it…. ah you get the idea..

[siffrin-enthusiast]

hey chat i’ve been having Thoughts about siffrin again.

tws for heavy discussions of unhealthy coping mechanisms, self-harm & suicide in the game in stars and time, spoilers for the entire game act 6 twohats etc etc. if anyone reads this and thinks of any more tws i should add, send them in and i'll add them to the top of this post.

your last warning of heavy discussions VERY unhealthy coping, the urge to and methods of physical and emotional SELF-HARM, and the weight of SUICIDE. i just want to reiterate that IT IS A LOT. use your best judgement before & while reading this post and PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

last last warning. just to be sure.

siffrin self-harms in the loops. we all know this, right? from the increasingly barbaric means they use to loop back, the glass shard they pick up and use, the bigfrin fight where your only craft skill is "(don't attack.) can't hurt them. attack the only person left" and the party visibly reacts to you using it. it's not exactly subtle.

it makes sense that the pretty popular headcanon is that siffrin doesn't drop the habit of self-harming after coming out of the loops. i agree with that, but i also think that it's not done in the way most people are thinking! let me explain.

siffrin's self-harming behavior in the loops boils down to three major (and very intertwined) truths about their situation.

siffrin does not recognize the value in his life. this has been a thing since before sif joined the party. they happened to cross paths and stepped up to defeat a "particularly strong Sadness" (and for reference, fully leveled storming the house Mirabelle gets nervous about fighting a Sadness. they will freeze you in time. they ripped out siffrin's eye in one blow. they are DANGEROUS.) and siffrin comes along to save this country because "there's nothing else for you to do". and then the loops start. siffrin realizes he can die and. well. holy fuck. we've all played the game. siffrin is literally killing himself, killing himself, for convenience because it's annoying to walk to a tear. and it's his idea!! if you do it enough times, the death text changes from (You killed yourself.) to (You saved yourself some time.) loop has a line about advising siffrin against suicide because they'll see themself as "disposable" and...yeah. yeah. they do.

siffrin will not let physical or emotional harm come to the other members of their party. again, this is something seen before the loops, when siffrin loses his eye defending bonnie from a sadness, and how they still cringe over being 'inconsiderate' to mira months ago during their travels across vaugarde. when the party panics after (just attack), siffrin loops. when the party dies in loop's hangout, siffrin loops. when bonnie is taken by the king, siffrin loops. when isa is taken aback by bad touch, siffrin loops. when odile realizes they're in a time loop in kinda sus, siffrin loops. when the party watches siffrin hurt himself in the bigfrin fight, siffrin attempts to loop. good god, there's a scene where if you try and use the dagger on your family members siffrin blames his intrusive thoughts and stabs themself. because of their intrusive thoughts. his dreams are about the fear of hurting their friends. their worst, most traumatizing moments are about other people getting hurt.

siffrin's actions in the loops are reversible. if something is done, it can be undone. it can be scripted around. their party will not know unless siffrin chooses to tell them. none of their actions have consequences. sif delights in this (until realizing beating the king doesn't free him from the loop). fuck up bonnie's friendquest? loop! miss a key? loop! say the wrong thing? loop! everyone dies horribly? loop! loop! loop!

and after the loops? let's take a moment to reevaluate siffrin's situation:

siffrin does not recognize the value of his life. still.

siffrin will not let physical or emotional harm come to the other members of their party. still.

siffrin's actions are no longer reversible. there is no time loop. what happens now happens--no second chances, no undo button. they are permanent. especially now that they've seen sif try to loop, the smell of burnt sugar that precedes it, and odile figured out how to shut it down. all of their actions have consequences.

immediately after the bigfrin fight, mira asks where sif is going and bonnie LITERALLY says "Yeah, you're stupid if you think we're leaving you to do whatever you want right now." and the party double-checks that siffrin is going to see loop before letting them run off. and then twohats happens. when siffrin gets back, isa comments "We were getting worried." in siffrin's small absence (despite knowing exactly where siffrin was, talking to loop, who the party has a favorable opinion of) and then mira calls them out directly for looking sad.

the party is watching siffrin like fucking hawks.

i fully believe that siffrin would feel the urge to self-harm. i fully believe that the party knows this too. and i think siffrin would at least suspect that the party is going to be looking very, very closely for signs of more physical self-harm.

there's a phenomenon i don't have a name for but that i've seen repeated where someone trying to recover from using an unhealthy coping mechanism can slip into using a different unhealthy coping mechanism instead. in school, perfectionism can lead to avoidance. if a person shuts down for too long, they might start acting out or doing other attention-seeking behaviors as a cry for help. and after we experience continuous trauma, a lot of people will seek out or be more attached to unhealthy relationships (of any time) and find comfort & stability in the abuse endured. obviously this isn't the case every time, and i don't even know if it's a Thing i actually read about in psychology classes or just a pattern i've been noticing! i'm no professional.

for siffrin, actions and their consequences are now permanent. so i really, really don't think he's going to self-harm unless they're 100% sure they're going to get away with it (and i doubt the opportunity will arise for months). because if the party finds out they self-harm, that breaks sif's rule of not letting physical/emotional harm come to the party. they're going to be devastated. we already saw how they acted when siffrin did it in front of them when he was using the dagger to loop, the bigfrin fight. when dagger looping, siffrin was more shaken up about watching their family watch siffrin die than the literally killing himself part. they do it in front of their party and in the bigfrin fight because he thinks he can loop back. but that is no longer siffrin's reality. the party will be devastated if siffrin hurts himself and siffrin cannot undo that hurt.

("Yeah, you're stupid if you think we're leaving you to do whatever you want right now.")

i think that since physical self-harm is banned for siffrin, he's going to subconsciously shift to emotional or at least more subtle self-harm. keeping that unhealthy emotional distance. getting angry and frustrated and bitter. overly helpful. denial and minimizing and suppressing the loops. alcoholism. dissociating from their feelings. keeping their expectations so, so soul-crushingly low. passivity. whatever was left of his self-esteem is going through a woodchipper. self-sabotage his relationships. impulsive behavior. throwing themself into the party's problems to forget his own.

little things, subtle unconscious displays of siffrin's utter loathing of himself that he thinks on some level he can get away with. that their party won't notice, won't be hurt by. there won't be consequences! no one will be hurt (except siffrin, but as previously discussed, siffrin does not value themself). the party is going to be watching; their refusal to let siffrin go to dormont alone says as much. and siffrin is not going to start opening up and becoming the coping mechanisms master; their non-mention of the fight with loop (only saying "i said thanks to loop" instead of "loop is me and also tried to kill me") says as much. there's...a long road ahead, that much is clear.

i think siffrin will eventually get better. isafrin only happened because siffrin reached out for isabeau instead of waiting on isa to do it, which i'm interpreting as a very positive sign of sif learning he has to reach out for help to receive it. it's going to be messy. it's going to take a while. but the time will pass anyways. siffrin will eventually get better.

those are just my thoughts as a non-professional. i'd love to hear other people's thinking about siffrin. if you need it, here's tumblrs official mental health resources post with resources sorted by different countries. stay safe and be well, everyone :)

[cyten0]

Fun Cyberpunk ISAT Au idea!

Curtsy of the Lives worth living discord for helping cook this.

So, The King is a Cyborg Corporate Head, who took over and bought out the House of Change. Their 'curse' is a virus that puts people comatose through their Cybernetic implants, which he only started unleashing after he took over.

Every device and robot created by his corporation starts being controlled by a malevolent AI, that constantly cry loudly and attack wildly. They've been referred to as 'Sadnesses'.

The 'Change belief' is in fact Change inc., a cyberware corporation that was trying to be ethical and help people out, using corprate leverage to try and change Vaugarde for the better. Then the king took over, and ripped it to the ground.

Mirabelle: Mira joined the company because she genuinely believed in it's goals. She was snuck out by the old head with a cutting edge antivirus software before the place went down. Though, she has barely any Cyberware herself, which combined makes her nearly immune to the curse. She wants to stop the king and save people!

Isabeau: A street samurai who used to work for Change inc. for a time. When Mirabelle came to Jouvente, trying to get help, mot turned her down for being a Corpo, and tied to a company that had stopped being reputable. Isa however, noticed how genuine she was, and joined up.

Odile: She used to work in Ka bue, as a factory worker. When she started a riot, things went wrong. Her father sacrificed himself, begging her to live, as he helped her flee to Vaugarde. She changed her name to something Vaugardian, reclaiming something from her mother, and then spent her days seeing how far she can break the law without being caught. When the kings curse just started going out, she decided to help as someone with a little experience.

Bonnie: Bonnies sister had to use a lot of cybernetics to keep up, and make enough for the both of them. Some of which were made by Change inc. AFTER the king took over. When the king unleashed the curse, Nille was hit by both the curse, and the Sadness code., robotic enough to count for it. She managed to hold back her own body just long enough to help Bonnie flee. Bonnie uses the knowledge they gained taking care of Nille to help cook, maintain cybernetics, and fix up some body code.

Siffrin: A hacker and rouge. They pilot a proxy android body, not really meeting the party IRL at all. But their skills are unmatched, and happily joined the party.

But when Dormont happened, they went to a quiet spot, and thought to themselves 'You want to stay with them'. And then the timeloop happened.

As it continued on, they realized some oddities. They don't remember where they're from. Sometimes they can hear the king's thoughts when facing him. They... can't see where they really are...

Loop: A hologram that pesters both Siffrin and the party, only directly revealing them to Siffrin. They know the entire House. All events within the timeframe. Perfectly encoded into their circuitry. To the point where several of their loops were actually fully simulated. But now, now they can just manipulate things from the sidelines! They can find a way forwards. To fulfill the Main Directive.

King: They remember fragments. Fragments of a perfect island. They took over this human body, tricking it's old host into implants that would let them control them. And now. Now, even if they must trample the will of the people, they will remake that perfect world. That is their Main Directive.

'The Island' was once a collective AI simulation, based on a location that had been long gone. But a corporation, concerned with it's power, dismantled it with a virus. It resisted, but it's various components fragmented into various mostly disconnected pieces. Siffrin and the King are two of them.

The King is designed to run activities to fulfill objectives. Their current objective is to remake the island. They are using their curse to copy and upload minds into stored copies of people, to be placed into the new system once the framework is set and Reality is no longer necessary for them.

Siffrin is designed to simulate possibilities. But with how much resources the king has obtained for the 'island' they can take that ability to a new level and literally warp reality, in a way that matches their function. Literally exploring new possibilities by turning back time. And the end goal? Was set at that tree. When they told themselves what they wanted.

Extra details:

'Ghosts' are Siffrin's psyche bleeding into stuff they hack, and reacting to their subconscious thoughts. As well as the physical version of Errors in the time manipulation software.

In act 5, Siffrin just straight up starts to override the king and sadnesses. By the time he reaches the king, it's more out of habit. The sadnesses are gone, the king can barely act. But he does manage to force back Siffrin's psyche from himself in the end by using the curse code on him.

There's likely more to this AU, but this is what we have so far.

[aluria-sevhex]

HELL FUCKING YESSSSSSSS

hey if you wanna read all of my posts as i play through ISAT, they are all tagged as #Aluria plays ISAT for the first time (please don't spoil)

notes:

-aight i'm back yippee

-title theme my beloved

-i always find it so funny when an enemy tries to freeze Mira

-gonna try this boss again

-ok i think i'll just replay Floor 3 on this loop instead of looping forward after i find out another one of Bonnie's favorite foods so i can build up everybody's stats

-OH. BONNIE OVERHEARD THE DEATH CONVERSATION.

-heh Bonnie slapped Siffrin

-uh... the audio is REALLY ominous...

-oh, Bonnie...

-WAIT WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT DID I JUST LOOP SLIGHTLY BACK IN THE PAST?

-Siffrin you ok i don't think that was helping ur mental health issues your eye is covered in shadow in your dialogue portrait

-i will once again NOT kill Siffrin via anaphylaxis. i will take the fish head

-...i didn't. get info on Bonnie's favorite foods this time.

-ok according to the save screen that didn't count as a loop

-anyway time to try looping to get the Bonnie snack info

-hey... the Tear dialogue isn't as silly anymore (it just says yes or no without the 'looping time' or 'living time')

-hey i didn't skip any loops this time!

-time to kill this pair of assholes again

-"carry my ashes with you" aw that's a sweet dialogue option

-i am so tempted to kill Siffrin. but i won't.

-awwww... i talked to Bonnie and now Sif is comforting them

-ok how the fuck do i get the info. BONNIE PLS.

-hold up. does Siffrin no longer nod when zoning out? :((((

-WAIT FUCK DID I FORGET TO GET THE KEY ON FLOOR 2.

-...Mira's roommate. was learning to make bombs. why???

-lol Isa knows how to make a bomb

-Mira has anti-anxiety meds. this makes a lot of sense tbh

-...what are these papers for???

-so i decided to try using the silver coin since a person said that you can do something with it related to the croissant lore. and it said "you think about the Incident" or smth like that lol

-lol Sif forgot the term 'stuffed animal'

-idk why but it feels like a lot of Craft skills are like. slower. or have bigger cooldowns in Act 3. even tho i KNOW they don't and my brain is fucking with me

-ok the game accounted for the key thing

-in the bathroom again

-Sif is calming themself again and figuring out what to do

-Siffrin, self-loathing and calling yourself stupid won't help :(

-i zoned out at some minor dialogue but i don't remember what the dialogue was the first time so i am fucking clueless about what was going on with a choice i made. sorry Mira idk why i 'saved you' by smacking your mouth ;_;

-i love getting to obliterate weaker Rock enemies with Paper α V

-i have now gotten Sif to level 60

-sometimes it's nice to take a break and talk to Loop

-wait a sec. doesn't one of the lower floors have a sharpening stone?

-ok it's been a while and now i have everybody back to level 52. time to kick the asses of the 3rd floor boss

-ooo Odile got a new skill

-time for the last snack break!

-Bonnie's upset now because i didn't try the fritters D:

-time to face the King again... and hopefully talk to him

-welp. *that* didn't work

-oh nvm now i can ask him questions via the Craft menu!

-you. you can give the King the flower.

-yeah the characters have a point! why Vaugarde specifically?

-the King is NOT responsible but he says Siffrin has an odd smell. huh... the only other things where an odd smell has been noted is Bonnie saying the star crest Sadnesses smell odd... but if Sif had that smell then it would've been noticed sooner...

-dude. how rude to say that if Siffrin doesn't understand Time Craft they can't understand the King's methods. maybe i should read more on Time Craft in one of the libraries? or that one book on craftonomy...

-the "you have heard this before" for zoning out got more and more annoyed

-once again. what does the King need to say?

-hm i was talking to Odile and Bonnie piped in really excitedly that they have more pineapple in their pocket

-GOD FUCKING DAMMIT MIRABELLE I LOVE YOU BUT YOU STOPPED ISA'S CONFESSION ToT

-time to talk to Euphrasie and loop again ig

-hey what's that in her hair?

-"you inhale sharply, almost choking on the smell of burnt sugar around you" BURNT SUGAR BURNT SUGAR THAT'S THE SMELL OF TIME SHENANIGANS AS SEEN WITH THOSE SADNESSES

-SAY SOMETHING ELSE EUPHRASIE

-how do i get the familytale?

-ok i talked to Odile and i'm gonna help her!

-am i gonna have to go all over town for this?

lmao yeah i think i will

-oh hey the wizard-loving kid is named Manon

-oh my god. i have to go back to the boulanger

-FINALLY

-:O THERE IS NO RESEARCH???

-oh THAT'S why Odile is in Vaugarde

-oh... her mom left... all of her travels here have been to try to reconnect with that part of her...

-HEY SIFFRIN I AM ONCE AGAIN ASKING WHERE THE *FUCK* ARE YOU FROM?

-damn. bro has amnesia

-LMAO I ASKED MIRA ABOUT THE PAPERS AND THE BATTLE THEME STARTED

-...bonding proposals???

-oh my god Mira joined a dating website group

-"we have one of those at home"

-"oh, i don't have a type! i like all kinds of people equally!" is this in a bi way or an aro way

-YEAH AROMANTIC REPRESENTATION

-DIVERSITY WIN! THE KICKASS HANDMAIDEN WHO'S IMMUNE TO BEING FROZEN IN TIME AND THE SORT-OF CHOSEN ONE IS ARO!!! I FUCKING CALLED IT YEAHHHHHHHH :D

-oh, Mira :( you're not the problem you don't have to do anything like that you're not comfortable with

-hm this game is dealing with personal identity a lot

-:( :( :( oh, Mira...

-DIVERSITY WIN!!! THE SKETCHY WANDERER STUCK IN A TIME LOOP WITH MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS IS ACE!!!

-MY BLORBOS ARE ACE AND AROACE FUCK YEAH I AM SO HAPPY

-FUCK IT I'M POSTING NOW

SERIOUSLY THO I DON'T THINK I CAN ACCURATELY CONVEY HOW FUCKING HAPPY THIS PART IS MAKING ME. TWO OF MY FAVORITES ARE ACE AND AROACE HELL FUCKING YES

[bowlofr1ce]

AU where Loop really does kill and take Siffrin’s place at the end of the game. They immediately regret it but the deed has been done. They continue traveling masquerading as their old self. Well, no, technically it’s not their old self. It wasn’t Loop that survived and escaped the time loop. It wasn’t Loop whom Stardust’s family members loved and cherished.

“You were Siffrin. Emphasis on WERE. That doesn’t mean that you are now. Which is funny! You have all the Siffrin qualities. The affinity for jokes and puns, the skill with a knife and silence in movement, and you’re still allergic to pineapples (you think you should tell the party members that…). But despite all this, you’re NOT Siffrin. Not anymore.”

The guilt will continue to eat away at Loop as they continue their performance as someone who they were, now someone who they are not.

“Let’s be honest. You really did want to kill stardust. Felt like with a snap of a finger and they magically get everything they’ve ever wanted! To escape the loops! To continue traveling with their family! TO ROB YOU OF THE PERFECT ENDING YOU BLINDING DESERVED. You thought this was a great idea! It’s not like you can go back to your family—if you can even call them that. So you’ll just take stardust’s!!

It’s not like they’ll notice after all, you’re Siffrin! You just need to take their place. Like an understudy taking the lead role. Except it feels a lot more like they were the understudy and they were outshining you. Which frustrated you to an extent. “What a perfect plan!” You thought! “There’s absolutely no way replacing a beloved family member with yourself could go wrong!!” You thought!!!! Acting weird? It’s a side effect of the loops! If they ask something? You know the answer! You experienced it first and second hand after all!!!!!!!

So WHY

WHY DOES IT FEEL SO WRONG?!

It was flawless, and yet every day you wake up you feel like ripping something out of your body! Wait- no. Not your body. Stardust’s body. Stars, you hate it when your brain corrects itself like that. You wish you can just simply just forget about stardust, and be the rightful Siffrin who deserves their place. You went through everything first after all!!! This Siffrin wouldn’t have gotten through it at all if it weren’t for you!! You need to keep up the act to keep your rightful reward, you NEED TO.

It’s getting bad. The researcher has already interrogated you a couple times. And the fighter has started to suspect something is very wrong. Thankfully the housemaiden and kid hasn’t noticed anything yet. Or at least you don’t think so. What would happen if everyone found out about you? That you’re not really Siffrin. That you’re not THEIR Siffrin. They’d probably push you away. And then you’re back to being lonely old Loop with no one to talk to!!!

If that happens when WHAT WAS THE BLINDING POINT OF IT ALL?! Killing stardust and then going on a little game of pretend only for the theater to crumble down to the ground in the end. It just really makes you think.

Was this the right decision?

Was this the right decision?

WAS THIS THE RIGHT DECISION?!”