#Loki is like treats Thor like a person and Odin is like nah I own him
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not a fan of people saying Odin and Loki are similar in a moral or decisive sense, particularly when it comes to Thor. that makes it sound like Loki doesn't know Thor or care about him beyond what he symbolises (regarding Asgard/the throne/family/worthiness), when that's a defining part of their relationship
#like i get WHY people go 'oh Thor is like Frigga (they care™/bring Emotions in) and Loki is like Odin (calculating™ /For The Greater Good)'#but if you make such a clearcut comparison you neglect a lot of stuff that Odin and Loki do drastically different#like there are literal contrasts that are pretty evident around Thor particularly#like Odin does expect Thor to be some ideal version of himself that obeys Odin implicitly and doesn't have his own volatile emotions?#while Loki more sees that Thor isn't who he tries to pretend to be and generally encourages Thor to realize that#the most obvious parallel would be how they in TDW try telling Thor that Jane won't work out#and Odin goes for the whole 'well they're insignificant' angle despite Thor caring about the humans and Jane particularly#Odin tries to go 'here's Sif and since you shouldn't have your own preferences (they're wrong and bad) consider my choice'#he largely disregards Thor's emotions#most people do on Asgard????#like it's literally wild how everyone saw Thor being major depressed and they basically told him to pretend to cheer up#like im sorry Thor's grief means nothing to y;all. he fell in love with someone very mortal and his brother is changed forever#Loki tries putting Thor off by first off. Thor KNOWS Jane isn't going to live long he's not never thought about it#he doesn't even make the decision for Thor he tells him to consider his choice well bc it WILL hurt him when she's gone#Loki is like treats Thor like a person and Odin is like nah I own him#I feel like in converting the brother/father relationship difference over people lose the differences in those aspect#they skip to similarities of heartlessness and Machiavellian ends meeting the means when Loki overall is#a far more moral character than Thor (at the start of Thor's arc) and Odin. and a lot of culturally Asgardian ideas#that's literally part of Loki's original characterization that he DIDN'T match up with their views#he didn't do stuff like take killing lightly like it's for fun and that's one of a long list of obvious aspects that make the setup cool#don't tell me Odin and Loki are the same#like there's some blanket understanding that Loki doesn't show or care about the people he loves#while Thor and Frigga have always been softhearted and refused to sacrifice themselves for what is deemed better for everyone#don't mistake selfishness for apathy and don't say Loki didn't cry himself through the first movie because duty to the throne comes first#that's literally Thor's bit#idk
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I am really getting annoyed with people said "loki is just narcissistic person, strange is just arrogant doctor, Wanda is just selfish crazy", okey they are lie that more than that but somehow everyone forgetting that they have trauma and pain(not justify bad actions but still) and they keep insist that they need getting more punishment.
Then we have stark, yeah we know him and if someone say he is just arrogant selfish billionaire other standard will say he ore than that and they said stark didn't deserve punishment what he did , really?
I am have to say I have one fanfic not Wanda friendly but I take theme in MOM because how I hate Wanda in MOM (thanks Waldron make me hate Wanda) from all her on screen MOM is in my hate list.
Also you can see how many Wanda, loki and strange got punishment in fanfic rather than stark, they justify his actions.
They never cared to humanize Stark's victims. We just had that woman in CW who was written horribly and to make matters worse, Stark was framed sympathetically in that scene. Go figure! And of course that scene is followed by him claiming the entire team has to be """held accountable""" (not just him, the team) and when some of them push back he's shown to be the rational one. What a joke.
With that kind of absolute narrative protection, is it any wonder so many people claim he feeling bad for 0.2 seconds is enough?
Whereas with Wanda we know the names of the people she hurt, we heard them speak and explain how much pain they were in. (I always laugh every time I see someone claim WandaVision was on Wanda's side.. lol no).
In Loki's case, his whole past and characterization were retconned and simplified by Waldron and Feige, and those around him were framed in a positive light while he was shown as an evil character who will always have to be paying for his mistakes. Odin, Thor, Sylvie, Mobius... none of them are held accountable so the difference in framing is even clearer.
And with Stephen, he's so unlucky that he got his own movie taken from him and once again his story was simplified for some reason I do not understand. His pain, sacrifices, his story are an afterthought in MoM and ironically enough, he was written miles better in NWH than in his own film. And of course, we got other characters telling him he's evil, he's selfish, he's a villain, bla bla.
In short: he's defined (negatively) by others. Just like Loki. Ever see them defining or defending themselves? Nah. If they defend themselves they're "arrogant" and "narcissistic" 🙄
So I'm not surprised those three are treated like crap by the fandom while Stark is praised to the heavens and back.
Stephen, Wanda and Loki are not perfect. But the thing is... they don't need to be. In fact, they shouldn't be. That's what makes them so interesting, it's what sets them apart from the clear-cut heroes. What we should be getting about them is the why they're not perfect + the circumstances behind their actions and beliefs, those are crucial when it comes to morally grey characters. Otherwise we just end up with "they did x so they're y" bullshit writing.
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Maybe
WARNING: SPOILERS FOR LOKI SEASON 01 EPISODE 05: ‘JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY’ AND SEASON 01 EPISODE 04: ‘THE NEXUS EVENT’
Pairings: Loki/Sylvie
Rating: General Audiences
Word Count: 4,124
Status: One Shot - Complete
Chapter Preview:
He had meant for it to come out more as a question, an offering. A possibility for the both of them. But what it really sounded like was a… well; a sincere, hope-filled attempt to keep hold of… this. Whatever this was, he knew he wanted it. However things went, he knew-
He wanted Sylvie in his life.
His heart was racing in his chest, pounding almost as hard as it does in the midst of battle. In the unlikely event he’s a free man after all of this over, he’ll have to go and find his brother - if he’ll even talk to him, that is - and apologize for the harsh insult he used; for berating his older brother over his affection for that Earth woman.
He understood now.
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Author Note:
Oh Boy, here I go again, getting sucked into yet another ship. Basically, this is a dive into Loki's thoughts during the blanket scene in Episode 5 "Journey Into Mystery" because man, I sure do love getting into a character's head and breaking down their thought process.
P.S. No joke, I think I re-watched the blanket scene like... over 40 times I counted, roughly. Wanted to make sure I got every detail right lmao.
Oh wow, would you look at that - yet ANOTHER fic based on the blanket scene? I'm sure this hasn't been done by many different people ever since Episode 5 aired! Nah, I'm sure this is purely original stuff.
(Listen, this scene and - consequently - this fic got stuck in my head and I just had to write it down and... well here we are.
* * *
This was, as he had said, new for him.
It was… strange, to say the least. Not just because the woman who was sat next to him was, technically, on some sort of level, himself. And yet… not. Sylvie was her own person, that was for sure. And the only Loki, from who he’s met, who refuses to be called Loki. She had chosen her own name, and was currently choosing – or carving, was more accurate – her own path. A way out of the never-ending, self-sabotaging, “only use is for improving others” apparent destiny they’ve all found themselves in.
She had lived an entirely different life from him - and the use of the word ‘different’ here is strongly applied. It makes him a little uneasy when he dwells on it for too long if he’s being honest with himself. Yes, there may some similarities between them, as to be expected, but Sylvie had lived her own set of experiences different to his. Differences that had shaped her, made her see the world… universe… timeline? All of that, in a different way to him. Learning of the things she had gone through, what she’s trying to accomplish… it made his “glorious purpose” of ruling over “Mid-guard” seem like a spoiled boy's desperate attempt to feel important.
Everything with Sylvie and the TVA had shut down that ideal very quickly. Or, at least, has changed his view of his “Glorious Purpose”. The one change that he hadn’t seen coming, that Sylvie herself had told him; the very first words she had actually said to him:
“This isn’t about you.”
No, it wasn’t about him. Not just him, anyway. It was… it was all of him. Every version of himself out there, and every other variant of... Of everyone to have ever existed. Those, just like him, who are punished for stepping out of their pre-written timeline. Those that, when they try to change themselves, to be the person who those that loved him did everything in their power to guide them to be, were snatched away by the TVA and sent here to this pit of unwanted, broken things; left with nothing but unforgiving and dirty survival, only to lead to their inevitable death.
And it’s cold.
“Mobius isn’t so bad.”
Sylvie breaks the comfortable lull of silence they had found themselves in. They were, technically, supposed to be ironing out the details of this plan to enchant a creature much, much larger than them, whose only desire is to eat everything that enters the world they’re currently in. Which is why, perhaps, they had taken the moment to just… breathe. A moment of rest, side by side. Whilst it was true that his plan of killing the gargantuan cloud thing was near suicidal, it would be fair to say that Sylvie’s plan was equally as dangerous. Then again, what did he expect? Seemed that every type of Loki out there isn’t the best at creating plans…
“Or so good,” Loki counters. It seemed almost cruel to say, but… it was also true, wasn’t it? Sure, Mobius had done the things he’d done because he thought they were the right things to do – but that didn’t take away from the fact that he’d done them. How many variants, not only of him, but of so many other poor souls had been doomed to this place because of his work? Still, it wasn’t like Mobius had the full picture with everything. Mobius had been lied to just as much as he had. “I think that’s why we get along.”
A small smile pulls at Sylvie’s lips. She takes a deep breath in, staring out to the horizon where Alioth awaits prowling his territory. “He cares about you.”
That catches him off guard. He supposed that she and Mobius must have had some type of conversation in however long they’d spent driving to reach them. Apparently, the topic of conversation must have steered towards him at some point. And somehow, through that, Sylvie had deduced that Mobius… cared about him?
There’s a soft, knowing smile on Sylvie’s face as she catches sight of his reaction. It was probably the closest similarity they shared: friendships… didn’t quite seem to happen for them.
But there’s something else there in Sylvie’s expression as she looks to him. Almost a twinge of… of sadness. It sends an aching sort of pain through his chest as he sees it, coming to a sudden realization in his head. He knew that, deep down, the reason for his own loneliness was all due to himself. He knows now that there were plenty in his life that loved him, that always treated him like family even when, genetically, he wasn’t. But he had been blinded by jealousy and hatred, hatred that they had kept the secret of his true nature quiet for so long. It was because of this; this stubbornness and this selfish, false ideal that he deserves more, that he had made himself alone.
But Sylvie…? She had been well and truly alone. From such a young age, an age where his mother had barely begun teaching him the basics of magic, she had been snatched away from her life. Everything she ever knew and loved had been wiped away, the timeline dumped here just like everything else the TVA – or whoever the hell is actually in charge of the damn universe and its multiple timelines – decided was too much of a threat. Ever since then, from that very same day she had managed to escape their clutches, she had been running alone. All those years, fighting to survive, completely alone, existing in one apocalypse after the other. Even if she did try and interact with the people in those timelines, what would be the point? They were doomed to die, anyway…
Her words echo in his head for a moment, her sad smile seemingly etched into his memory. A part of him, that strangely soft side he didn’t know existed that had been growing stronger and stronger these past few days, burst with the need to do something, to remove the pain she was feeling. For just a split second, he nearly gives into it. He nearly says the words that were forcing their way to the forefront of his brain.
‘I care about you.’
But the words stay safely locked away in his head. Sylvie looks away from him, and the moment passes. He didn’t know if she had been expecting for him to say anything, and he certainly didn’t know what it is she might have thought he would say. His mind clambers for something, for anything to try and bring the moment back.
A strong gust of cool wind blows over them, sending chills across his pale skin - despite the long-sleeved shirt he was wearing. He knew that, if he really wanted to warm himself up, he could shift into his true form. Except, he didn’t see it as his true form. He has been an Asgardian as long as he can remember, and for all intents and purpose, this is who he’s meant to be. He is the son of Odin, son of Frigga, brother to Thor, an Asgardian, and he’s proud of that.
And that’s when the idea pops into his head.
“It’s cold,” Loki states the obvious to Sylvie with a shiver of his upper body, glancing over to try and catch her reaction out of the corner of his eye. For a moment, he wonders if Sylvie has the same views on their true heritage as he does, considering that, in her timeline, she was told she was adopted much earlier than he was.
She doesn’t mention anything about it, though. Instead, she simply agrees with his statement with a hum of “Mmm-Hmm,” but it’s exactly the kind of answer he’s looking for.
From the outside, it looks like an easy twirl of his fingers and a burst of lime-green light, but in reality, it’s years and years of practice, both by himself and… and with his mother. The weight of the blanket - though light - is comforting as it wraps around his shoulders; silky smooth to the touch and of a darker green than the light of his their magic.
The burst of color gets Sylvie’s attention, looking over to Loki again to see the new blanket he had materialized out of seemingly thin air - which… he did.
“I could conjure one for you, if you like?” Loki offers.
Sylvie smiles for just a split second, enough for Loki to believe that she might just say yes. But then her nose scrunches as she comes back to herself, and the belief is gone. “Tell you what, you could conjure me a new outfit,” Sylvie says off-handedly, pulling at the tight collar of her outfit. “You have no idea how uncomfortable something like this is.”
It’s a deflection. He knows that all too well, because… because it’s something he’d do. Not that he can blame her in the slightest. As he had said, just before he was pruned through the heart and sent here - this was entirely new for him. Sure, he had had his fair share of flings back home. Rare occasions when he would give in to temptations, let himself experience a slice of normality. But it was never real. He did not doubt that those that fell into his bed did not do so because they felt a connection, or saw a future. And neither did he. He was a prince, a God, and for most, saying you were able to seduce a prince was an achievement. And for him? Well, it was an easy means to an end, he supposed.
But this? This felt real. It was strange, it was something he had never experience before, and quite frankly, it scared the ever-living God’s out of him. So sure, he knew how to flirt… somewhat. But with this, with Sylvie? Everything was different, and he had no clue whatsoever what he should do.
“So…” Sylvie breaks him out of his thoughts. “Mobius, and his theory about…”
Oh. Well, he certainly hadn’t been expecting for the conversation to go there. Really, he had thought she might try and pretend to have never heard what Mobius had said.
“Right, right. About our Nexus event-,”
“Total rubbish, right?”
He’d be lying if he said that didn’t sting a little bit. “Absolutely,” ‘Liar’, a voice in his head hisses. “Of course, I mean-,”
“I don’t mean that it wasn’t a nice moment,” Sylvie hurries to say, and it lessens that sting just a little bit.
“No, it was great! It was really nice.”
“It just… sounds like another TVA lie.”
Which... Yes, when he thinks about it, could you easily have been a lie. Not that he thinks that Mobius would lie to them about this, no, but that someone else within the TVA had fed Mobius the lie. For what reason, he's not entirely sure. To throw them off the scent perhaps? Keep them from figuring out what can really cause a Nexus Event so powerful that it could conceivably take the TVA down.
Or, perhaps they just enjoyed lying. More than him even - and that's saying something.
"A hundred percent. I mean totally, yeah."
And oh, what was this? Loki tries to meet her eye, expecting her to nod her head vehemently in agreement to his statement. But... She won't look at him. She gives a somewhat strained-looking smile, more like a grimace than anything, and if he looks hard enough - by which he means projects his own feelings onto Sylvie and hopes she feels the same - he could almost imagine there was a flicker of disappointment there, too.
"I don't know how to do this," Sylvie says, an admission he didn't expect. She looks about as awkward as he feels, eyes fixated on her fingers as she plays with them.
"I don't even know what we're doing," Loki returns, and dear oh dear did he genuinely mean that. One moment he thinks he should take that step, say something, anything. And then the very next moment it becomes the wrong time, the wrong thing to say, and he's back to square one.
It was frustrating, to say the least.
"I don't have friends," Sylvie carries on, and it's another dagger through the heart. Yet another thing that was so similar, yet so, so different. He had been given so many opportunities for companionship, for friends, but he repeatedly threw them all away. But Sylvie? She wasn't even given the chance. She truly had-
"I don't have..." Sylvie trails off, a long gap where she struggles to find the right word to use. Her eyes had locked onto his, and he knew that nothing less than Alioth appearing right above their heads would get him to tear his eyes away.
"... Anyone."
"Well, there are more important things, right?" Loki desperately grasps for something to wipe away the blank, dejected look that was etched onto her features.
"Right? Yeah, like bringing down the TVA."
For once, one of his plans was going well. "Saving the universe, even."
"Well, there's no need to be dramatic - but yeah, kind of!"
Then there it was again - a particularly strong breeze pushing up to the little hill they were sat on. Sylvie gives a little shiver as it washes over them, a barely noticeable shuffle in an attempt to get warm, and Loki jumps at the opportunity.
It only takes one small adjustment, a brief push of magic, and then the blanket is growing, wrapping itself around Sylvie's shoulders in a motion so smooth, you'd think he'd done something like this hundreds of times before. Loki smiles gently to her when she notices the change, and his smile only grows more as Sylvie pulls the blanket tighter around her shoulders, shuffling closer to him by just the smallest of movements. Yet another plan he could now say was a success.
"It's not very snuggly."
Or, maybe not. "Okay," Loki manages to get out through a surprised laugh, but he does get some sort of gratification in seeing her smile at his response.
"Is it a tablecloth?"
"No, it's a blanket," Loki finds himself strangely defending his materialized choice of cloth.
There’s a pause, the quickest of glances up to him. He sees a brief flash of pink as she pokes out the tip of her tongue between her lips, wetting them as she struggles to get out her next words. “Thank you.”
Loki gets a strange feeling she doesn’t get to say that all too often. Whether that be because she chooses not to, or because she’s never had the opportunity to. When was the last time someone did something nice for her…?
“My pleasure.”
Sure, this was all new, and all types of scary. But, as he sat here, shoulder to shoulder with Sylvie, looking out to the dreary yet oddly beautiful landscape scattered with remnants from pruned timelines, he can't help but feel that this moment right here? It was… nice. Despite the TVA, despite Alioth, despite the fear of imminent death he’s had to live through nearly every moment since the Tesseract flung him into that desert in Mongolia, he had managed to find himself some semblance of peace.
And it was because of the person next to him.
“How do I know that, in the final moments, you won't betray me?”
Now, this was a conversation he had been expecting. How can he not? It seemed that nearly every single person he’s ever come across, who he hasn’t immediately tried to murder, wonders the exact same thing. The ‘inevitable’ betrayal every Loki seems incapable not to carry out.
And he couldn’t blame them, just as he can’t blame Sylvie for wondering the same thing. Really, he had thought the whole reason she had wanted this moment to talk to him was to have this very conversation. It was… it was something he had thought about himself, ever since being dragged in by the TVA. It was Mobius that had shown him his consistent deceitful nature - quite literally, by showing him film of every moment in his life where his flair for dramatics and affiliation for backstabbing was apparently used for ‘the bettering of others’.
It had become deeply ingrained into his nature. It became what he was known for, what his family knew him for. He supposed it gave him some sense of… satisfaction, perhaps? A false sense of security, that he always has the upper hand when need be. It was almost like a trial, opportunities to prove to himself that, when the time comes, he can do what it takes to claim what he, false-fully, felt he was owed. He was certain that the only path to being a rightful ruler was one filled with betrayal.
And now, after only a few days with Mobius - and an even shorter amount of days with Sylvie, his previous ambition he’s been working towards for so long suddenly wasn’t as important. Things had changed.
He had changed.
And that was part of the reason the TVA wanted him dead.
“Listen, Sylvie, I…” Loki starts, but then stops. He sighs deeply, wanting to find the best way to get this across to her. He needed her to understand. “I betrayed everyone who ever loved me. I betrayed my father, my brother… my home.”
He at least had her full attention now. No more awkward glances at one another, unable to maintain more than a few seconds of eye contact. This was important, and they both knew it. “I know what I did. And I know why I did it. And that’s not who I am anymore. Okay?”
There’s nothing on her face that he can read, nothing that says whether she believes him or not. She had been expecting him to say this, he supposed. “I won't let you down,” Loki says, and he says it like a promise - one he fully intends to keep.
“You sure?” Sylvie asks, and he nods his head straight away in response. “ ‘Cause if we make it, and the TVA is gone, there might be a timeline for you to rule.” Sylvie continues with a challenging - yet slightly teasing- narrowing of her eyes.
“Ah,” Loki says wistfully, looking out to the horizon as if dreaming of such an event. “And then I’d finally be happy.”
Except, he wouldn’t. He only has to look at his older self to know that. The only one of himself that had beaten the one event that’s supposed to define their lives. He had tricked the mad titan himself, found himself a little corner of the universe to live out his life in peace. No more people he has to challenge, no more opportunities for betrayal - by him, or to him.
And he looked… miserable.
Now, though? Right here and now, he wasn’t miserable. He certainly wasn’t relaxed, that was for sure, but far from miserable. He had ended his little exclamation with a rare smile that wasn’t a smirk - or forced- and miraculously, Sylvie returned one just as wide as his; wide enough even for him to see the little laughter lines crinkling at the corner of her eyes.
“What about you?” Loki asks. “What will you do when this is all over?”
Sylvie takes a moment to think, tucking an unruly strand of hair away from her face. “I don’t know.”
He couldn’t even begin to try and put himself in her shoes. Sylvie had spent… hundreds, perhaps even a thousand years of her life just running. Surviving. Doing whatever it takes to make sure she wasn’t wiped off the board by some mystery figure, or group, that had deemed her too dangerous to the timeline. And for what? Some kind of sick desire to have control over every single living thing in every type of Universe to ever exist?
Which… which sounded an awful lot like himself, now he thought about it. Maybe whoever was in charge of the TVA was another variant of himself…
“I don’t know either,” Loki said, and that added to the tally of growing truths he was admitting to people - perhaps the most in his life.
At some point, this all had to be over. Whether… whether it ends in his death once again, another defeat by a power-hungry being, or with their victory. No more TVA. No more pruning of variants. No more control. Sure, Sylvie had made that joke about him ruling a separate timeline, but… what would he do once this was all over, assuming her survives it? What did he want to do?
What does he want?
‘Look at your eyes! You like her!’
‘What?’
‘You like her! Does she like you?’
‘Was she pruned-’
‘No wonder you have no clue what caused the Nexus Event on Lamentis; both of you are swooning over each other!’
‘Tell me the truth-’
‘It’s the apocalypse! Two Variants of the same being, especially you, forming this sick, twisted romantic relationship - that’s pure chaos! That could break reality, it’s breaking my reality right now! What an incredible, seismic narcissist - you fell for yourself!’
‘Her name was Sylvie’.
Mobius had truly tricked him there. At least now he knew how cruel it was to be on the other side of such a bluff, he supposed. He had always prided himself on his acting abilities, his innate way of lying to others. Yet, apparently, when it came to Sylvie… he puts his full emotions on display. He had become too overcome with emotions at the mere thought of Mobius telling the truth, that Sylvie was well and truly gone, and he had snapped. He was…
Yes… That was the word.
He was heartbroken.
‘You conniving, craven, pathetic worm. I hope you know you deserve to be alone and you always will be.’
‘Do you really think you deserve to be alone?’
‘I don’t know.’
‘Well then you better figure it out quick, because the Nexus Event the two of you caused, whatever that connection is, can bring this whole place down.’
Maybe, just maybe… Mobius was onto something there. Maybe Sif, even in that small, once insignificant memory buried in his mind, was wrong.
Maybe he didn’t deserve to be alone.
Maybe he didn’t have to be.
“Maybe…” The words get caught in his throat, spoken softer than he intended to. He involuntary finds himself leaning closer to Sylvie, to the warmth radiating from her, trapped within the blanket wrapped around them. “Maybe we could figure it out... together.”
He had meant for it to come out more as a question, an offering. A possibility for the both of them. But what it really sounded like was a… well; a sincere, hope-filled attempt to keep hold of… this. Whatever this was, he knew he wanted it. However things went, he knew-
He wanted Sylvie in his life.
His heart was racing in his chest, pounding almost as hard as it does in the midst of battle. In the unlikely event he’s a free man after all of this over, he’ll have to go and find his brother - if he’ll even talk to him, that is - and apologize for the harsh insult he used; for berating his older brother over his affection for that Earth woman.
He understood now.
He almost misses the slightest of reactions as Sylvie looks up to him - and what he knows is an earnest, vulnerable glaze in his eyes. It’s the smallest of things, almost impossible to see, but there’s a slight pull to the corner of her lips as she looks to him. Almost as if she was fighting back a smile at his proposition.
“Maybe,” She whispers back to him, just as quiet and tender as his own words. It’s not a yes, not in the way his frantically racing heart was hoping to hear, but it was a start. It was Sylvie’s own returning of a proposition, her own olive branch. The possibility he had given that she was extending right back to him.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Yes… Maybe they’d survive this. Maybe he and Sylvie would bring down the tyrant who oversees ‘the sacred timeline’. Maybe he’ll find Mobius again, alive and well, having turned the entirety of the TVA’s workforce against the organization they devoted their lives to, and burn it to the ground.
Maybe Sylvie will let him stay by her side.
Maybe, he’ll carve that new path in his life - with Sylvie’s intertwined with his.
Maybe he’ll find that new Glorious Purpose.
Maybe he won’t be alone.
Maybe he’ll be happy.
Maybe…
You know what? He was starting to like that word.
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I understand if you don't want to respond to this, but do you have any more thoughts on Thor in Ragnarok? I've seen you mention that you think Ragnarok does worse by him. I agree, but I can't really articulate why. Being a Thor fan first and foremost, I find myself rather alone. Most Thor fans seem to think Ragnarok fixed Thor. Saved him from being boring. This idea makes me sad, because all Ragnarok did, from my perspective, was make him funny. Being funny =/= interesting.
Oh boy nonny do I ever have more thoughts on that topic. I have so many.
First off, I should say that I think you’re not as alone as it seems. Most of the posts on tumblr have been positive because of a lot of us staying silent due to not wanting to harsh anyone’s squee. (If anyone reading this is still flying high on your TR buzz, stop reading now.) And most of the relatively smaller proportion of critical posts have, for whatever reason, come from people who are mainly Loki fans who don’t like how the movie treated him as a character. But among people I have talked to privately and from discussions I’ve seen in places that aren’t tumblr, there are plenty of Thor fans who don’t like what Ragnarok did to his character either. (Personally I really don’t understand how anyone could have been a Thor fan and thought he was boring and unfunny before Ragnarok, but different strokes I guess.)
And, like, I think there are two different conversations about this, and I want to keep them separate because I think that’s important to avoid having stupid arguments about it. One conversation is whether this was an enjoyable version of Thor. Obviously, this question is entirely subjective, and those who enjoyed it are likely to be willing to overlook much of the other question, and that’s completely reasonable. If you enjoy a thing, you don’t often feel a need to poke at it much, and I don’t think there’s any reason to try to argue with people’s aesthetics, so none of this is meant to say that people should not enjoy it. Y’all do you.
But for the conversation about the character’s arc across the movies and Ragnarok’s consistency with it (or, rather, lack thereof), the assertion that Ragnarok “fixed” Thor is one I really take issue with. Because the way I see it, it “fixed” strawman Thor and thereby ignored or destroyed the aspects of his character that were the really significant and meaningful things about him, IMO.
Like, OK, if you believe the main problem was that Thor was underpowered in the previous movies and Ragnarok showed a more physically powerful Thor who no longer even needs Mjolnir to make lightning? Well, sure, I guess. Those were indeed some visually stunning scenes. But seeing Mjolnir as a silly tool that Thor needed to grow beyond? Nah, that is a complete misunderstanding of the point of the hammer and of, well, the entirety of Thor’s character arc. “The power was in him all along, he just needed to believe in himself!” is the tired and simplistic YA character arc Ragnarok gave us for him, and it is completely out of place for a character who had spent the last four movies growing from an arrogant prince who didn’t think things through and assumed himself to be in the right, into someone who is very aware of his own power and careful of the ways it can be misused because he has come to understand how badly he can fuck up without intending it. Someone who has grown up from blindly idolizing his king and father to understanding the wrongs Asgard has committed (Bor’s slaughter of the Dark Elves, Odin’s war against the Frost Giants) and how those wrongs are still having consequences in the present day, and having to grapple with whether he wants any part of that and how he can fulfill his duties without perpetuating those wrongs. Someone who has dealt with his values coming into conflict with each other, and has had to navigate those dilemmas without a rulebook (that is why “worthy” is not ever defined: the point of the hammer is that it is a symbol of facing difficult ethical questions---like whether to turn your back on your kinsman who has done terrible things, pitting your love and loyalty against your duty as a leader---and having to find your own answers, knowing that you could get it wrong). Someone who is careful in how he relates to others because he found out that his beloved brother had gone around the bend without him even being aware there was a problem, and who cares deeply about his relationships with others and is committed to doing right in them.
The Thor of Ragnarok seems little aware of his own values of honesty, forthrightness, fairness, and compassion that marked him in all prior iterations of canon; he is instead insincere and manipulates his potential friends and allies rather than trying to honestly convince them to help him, and he makes virtually no attempt to talk Hela down, choosing to insult her instead, despite knowing that she has real grievances. Where Thor 1 and TDW showed us a Thor who could explain advanced astrophysics with a few sketches, with the emotional and interpersonal intelligence to make friends when set down on Earth with nothing and to get people to follow him into danger because they like him and want to help, Ragnarok Thor shows no such skill.
And the greatest show of Thor’s “cleverness” in Ragnarok… OK, we all recall the scene in Avengers 1 where Loki uses the illusion appearing to break out of the glass cage to get Thor to dive headlong into it, right? And how Loki taunts him with “Are you ever not going to fall for that?” The point of that scene was not that Loki was correct and Thor was dumb to believe it. The point of it was that Loki was being a schmuck and Thor should be able to trust him. Ragnarok, however, seems to be saying the height of cleverness is for Thor to see through Loki’s tricks and get him back for them. Folks, we’re not supposed to buy Loki’s bullshit, OK? Loki is not correct that the most deceptive = the smartest. And Thor appearing to believe it… does not constitute positive character growth for someone who was already well beyond that in a much better direction.
So yeah, the way I see it is that Ragnarok was completely out of place for Thor’s character arc, and it ignored all of the things I found interesting and important about the character, instead replacing him with someone I don’t much like.
I hope this maybe articulates some of the same issues you have with it, and I really hope it helps you to feel less alone, nonny. There are Thor fans who feel Ragnarok did not do right by him. We’re here. And if you want to talk about it more, please don’t hesitate to message me!
#ragnarok critique#ragnarok critical#replies#theories of thunder#anon#thank you for the ask <3#Anonymous
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Dancing on Ice part 1
Loki/ OFC, Avengers Assemble-esk, (I refuse to acknowledge the pain of infinity wars)
The Avengers were not happy, Thor had brought Loki back to Earth to serve out a term of service. Apparently Odin had thought that Loki would learn his lesson if he was banished to the same planet he had tried to take over, with most of his power gone. Like with Thor’s banishment he would get his powers back when he was worthy of them.
Great parenting right?!
Anyway, The avengers weren’t happy, Loki wasn’t happy, the only person pleased with the situation was Thor who was happy to both have his brother back and to spend more time on Earth. For the most part Loki just slunk around the Avengers mansion keeping out of people’s way— unless to torment them — or reading.
One day as he was trying to find a quiet place to read he happened upon a large empty hanger. When He stepped into the hanger, instantly his feet slipped out from under him. He placed his hand on the slick surface of the floor, it promptly turned blue showing his true skin. He jerked his hand away and gazed around the hanger. Seeing a figure moving quickly and smoothly around at the far end he got up, slowly gaining his balance on the slick ice that covered the floor in a thick sheet.
The figure began moving towards him, spinning making large lazy loops or fast movements. It was a woman he could tell wearing jeans, a sweater and tall boots, she was pretty her short brown hair pulled up into a tiny ponytail with bangs hanging over her face. She seemed to have— what were they called— headphones in. She hadn’t yet noticed him but when she did her gliding movements faltered for a split second before she came to a flourished stop in front of him showering him with tiny ice fragments. Loki noticed then her skin was abnormally pale almost with a blue undertone as if she was early stages of frostbite.
She took out her phone tapping the screen before pulling her headphones out, “do you need the hanger for something? Cuz I can clean up and leave if you want”
Loki liked the sound of her voice, it sounded like hot spiced cider and whiskey.
“Who are you I haven’t seen you before?”
She stuck out her hand—Loki noticed it was gloved— “I’m Ember Foxe I’m live and work here”.
“Ah one of Stark’s pets” Loki said starting to loose interest and ignoring her hand which she dropped.
“I am nobody’s pet! Who are you anyway?”
“You don’t know who I am?”
“I’ve been a bit cut off from the world” she answered cryptically
“I am Loki”
“Like the Norse god.”
“Yes”
“Awesome, now if you are not going to kick me out of the hanger I’m gunna go back to skating” when she said that Loki looked down at her feet noticing the fine blades on her boots.
“Skating?” When he asked that she laughed
“You’ve never skated before I thought you said you were from Scandinavia”
“No”
she smirked, “Would you like to learn?”
“Sure” he was very curious at this point
“Ok I'm guessing you don’t have skates” she looked up at him for conformation and he shook his head, “ok just don’t be alarmed”
She took off her gloves and got down on one knee in front of him, reaching out her hands she touched his boots. “This is one of the first things I learned how to do, I hope you don’t mind a little cold” thin sheets of ice covered his boots and moved down ending in thin blades similar into hers. He suddenly felt very unstable, as she stood.
“Now I’m going to smooth the ice it will be easier for you if it’s clean, stay there”.
She skated backwards for a few feet before bending and touching the ice with her fingertips and the lines from her passing disappeared. She replaced her gloves and skated back towards him.
“Ok give me your hands”
“What” Loki was a little incredulous
“Give me your hands I’m going to teach you the basic principle. It is easier the first time if someone helps you”
“Right” he growled, she gently pulled his book from his hand and slide it towards the door seeing his gauze follow it she reassured him “don’t worry the ice is dry and won’t melt until I want it to your book will be fine” she took his hands.
“Ok now step forward onto your right foot and push off with your left one” he did and they glided a few feet she skated backwards in front of him. “Good now keep doing that but alternate feet” they made one round of the hanger.
“Do you think your getting it?” She asked as he began to feel more confident
“Yes” Loki replied
“Good I’m going to let go now”
“Alright” he was feeling very confident, right up to the moment that she let go and skated away, He wobbled.
“Now remember, movement helps with the balance if you stop you have to shift your weight to start again”
She began skating circles around him as he wobbled offering tidbits of advice. Once he nearly fell backwards but felt a finger between his shoulder blades just enough pressure to keep him upright until he gained his balance. Soon he could skate around confidently, nothing fancy like what she did but pretty good.
“You’re doing really well” she offered
“You are a good teacher” he said losing his armor of snark in the fun of the activity
“Well I wouldn’t say that the last person I taught fell a lot and took me down with her a couple times cracked one of my ribs” she laughed
“How inconsiderate of her”
“Nah it was fine, she just wasn’t as graceful as you”
“Thank you”
Just then a voice called out across the hanger, “Ember get over here”,
It was Mr. Stark,
“Coming Mr. Stark” She turned and skated to the door where Tony stood, arms crossed glowering. Loki slowed to a stop then the ice disappeared and she trotted to Tony, he grabbed her and started scolding her, as he pulled her out of the hanger, but not before casting a glare over his shoulder at Loki. Loki got his book and went to sulk because the one person who had treated him kindly in the mansion would no longer after Stark talked to her.
-x-x-x-
Tony pulled Ember along,
“You need to stay away from him”
“But he’s kind to me, didn’t judge me at all”, her eyes were big. “Can you stop pulling my arm”
He didn’t let go nor did he stop pulling, “I don’t are how he treated you Ember, he is a villain and if you want to keep your place here and my protection you’ll stay away from him.”
She looked down, “yes Mr. Stark”
“And what have I told you about using your powers so frivolously”
“I’m sorry Mr. Stark I just missed skating”
“Boo fricken ho! Kid keep your power to yourself and keep your head down. Now I need you to clean the lab.” He stopped at the door to his lab and opened the door to her. Once she entered he closed the door and left.
-x-x-x-
As Ember cleaned the lab all alone, she began to wonder about Loki and what Tony had said. She had been isolated along time, didn’t know what Loki had done to earn Tony’s anger but he didn’t seem like such a bad guy. But while Ember wanted to judge Loki by he actions word her instead of what others said, she couldn’t loose this place to stay, if she did she would be on the streets again, on the run from Hydra. The irony of Loki calling her Tony’s pet hit her as she wasn’t plowed to do anything without Tony’s permission nor was she allowed to leave the mansion. Totally dependent on Tony’s beck and call and not allowed to interact with anyone. She decided she would stand up for herself, in a situation he couldn’t dismiss her.. Once she had finished cleaning. She went to her room, and crawled into the space under her bed. The tightness of the space, and the darkness comforted her, being hidden and the fact that no one could sneak up behind her eventually lulling her to sleep.
With sleep came dreams, not the dreams a young woman should have of expensive presents, attractive suitors and success in a chosen field, or even the strange Alice and wonderland-esk dreams that those with strong imaginations enjoy. No, these were nightmares of painful memory.
-x-x-x- dream (7 years prior)
“Look at the creep, god what a loner”
“I heard her parents were so disappointed with her they killed themselves”
“That’s just cruel Ales”
“Yeah not cool Ales”
“What, you guys are just as mean”
“But joking about her parents is just wrong”
“Whatever”
Ember heard the girls on the other side of the hall talking about her, she couldn’t wait to be done with high school and it’s pathetic drama, the hierarchy which would disintegrate after graduation in two weeks. Yeah maybe she was different, wore black almost exclusively, and didn’t have any friends at school, but that didn’t mean she was a freak. She just worked at the ice rink her grandpa owned and knew there were bigger things in the world than high school. Ember also knew how her parents really died. They had been in the military, mom in the air force, dad in the marines and both died in combat. She was proud her parents fought. Her grandpa had made sure she knew why and what they were fighting for.
Dream shift to the next December
It was cold and snowy, just slushy enough that the roads were wet and slick but the rivers and ponds not frozen over. Ember was running with her head phones in, just when she got to a bridge, a car spun out of control the back end spinning around and hitting her sending her flying over the side of the bridge into the water below. The water was cold and dark stealing’s her warmth. She could barely see the grey light of the day between the chunks of ice on the surface of the water. Desperately she tried to reach it but the current quickened by the melted snow of the day pulled her under into the darkness.
That night the river froze and Ember’s body with it, but she did not die. The cold awakened a latent mutant gene in her DNA, causing her to change. When she broke through the ice the next morning, she was miles from Home, down river. Her phone was long since dead and water logged and it seamed as if there was no warmth left in the world for her as she trudged up river in the direction of her home. It took her four hours of walking and constant shivering to make it to a town. Her long hair had frozen stiff and her skin had lost all color. When she got to the ER, the nurses jumped to help her when she said she had fallen in the river and one was kind enough to let her use a phone to call her grandpa.
He didn’t answer the first call nor the second, nor the third. On the fourth call, a man picked up the phone, “hello”
“Grandpa! I need you to come get me I’m in (sometown) at the ER”
“Who is this?”
“Wait who is this why do you have grandpa’s phone”
Chuckles “so you’re old Davie’s Grandkid huh, knew he’d gone soft.look kid your grandpappy isn’t worth shit and just got what was coming to him. If you know what’s good for you you won’t come home. Just run, run, run, because revenge extends to Davie’s family as well. And I’d hate to rough up a cute kid like you.”
The line went dead. And a line of ice crept up the IV line until it was completely frozen.
-x-x-x- end dreams
Part 2 coming soon
#loki x ofc#loki laufeyson#loki odinson x reader#loki odinson#marval#ofc#tom hiddleston x ofc#tom hiddleston#thomas william hiddleston#original female character
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Out of all the problems with MCU portrayal of their main characters the most disturbing I find is the lack of dignity. Of course, this thought came from my inner Loki rants, where I cursed Joss for stripping Loki of almost all his potential and leaving fans to scramble the pieces and construct something noteworthy.
(Far more text than I anticipated)
This toothlessness destroys not only my respect for an antagonist, but also diminishes the protagonists' accomplishments, renegating them to a well-lit and well moving circus attraction.
Dignity brings respect, and what is an enemy if you can't respect them? What is a character if you're unwilling to learn from them? I'll digress - one of my faves of all time is Marta Jones from Doctor Who. I don't know a lot of people who love her to the same degree I do, preferring other companions for their reasons. But I've always loved Martha, because she observed the situation she was in, decided she disliked it enough to change and followed through with her decision. Epic love and sacrifices are often preferred and, if done right, heartwrenching, but this quiet bravery is what I admire and her farewell scene is often at the back of my mind when I hesitate to act.
How can I respect Thor if I’ve never seen his remorse, his pain and hesitation lingering for years, his speech or action patterns affected by his worldview changing? As far as I see in the first Avengers, he’s perfectly okay with attacking natives just because. Yes, I see, it’s so very different from his behaviour in Jotunheim. For that matter, in AoU he’s not better, in Thor2 his character is better described with the word ‘imbecilic’, and what, I should suddenly like a character who mindlessly enjoys torture? Because that scene in Ragnarok doesn’t really paint the protagonist in the best light. Great, he has his flaws, it makes him more real and approachable, doesn’t it? Oel, look, he does a lot of good! Well, I see someone who does what is convenient for him, and his hardships, well. Hmm. His coronation was interrupted, his uncalled for attack on a foreign state was met with a really mild punishment and while losing his brother is shown as an extremely painful and traumatic event, by the time Avengers roll in, Thor is apparently fine manhandling said brother (which I’ll see again, nice tactic, shake a stabbed person as hard as you can, Thor, it’ll help!) and being dismissive and condescending. What a life changing weekend! Who might have thought a couple of days against thousands of years might be not really that effective? Oh, wait, he was shaken by his brother’s brutal death again, ah, nah, wait, let them giggle with his gf, ok. love will conquer all and protagonist’s morally right love interest is totaly more important than his companion of hundreds of years. Nothing new here.
It’s interesting, that Thor is constantly given reward for not really impressive feats, while Loki is forced into traumatic situations and is punished for not reacting to them as a cliche gold-hearted hero; all via the omnipotence of Plot Convenience. Thor is not really loyal - he is at best scatter brained about both his Asgard shieldbrothers and the Earth ones. I’ve yet to see him making sacrifices for the good of his people, being torn between matters of the state and his own petty pleasures. I’d like that! At least I’d know that he’s worth more than his muscle weight. No, this is not a hero who incites respect and wish to be more like the hero! I have more duties than him, for fuck’s sake!
Then Loki, who is relatable in the matter that he’s so often torn between possibilities and choices, and simply by the fact that any choice is bad or will blow in your face but you need to choose anyway, that’s fucking life! - Loki is denied respect by the writers and it feels like a slap to my face, because I can’t relate to Odin, or (a really cold-minded woman) Frigga, or Thor and his psychotic groupies, their problem even in concept and scale are foreign and ridiculous for me.
So, dignity, treat your characters with dignity, they are the manifestation of your experience and turmoil of all kinds, respect yourself!
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