#K'yorl Odran

[1071png]

K'yorl Odran

I googled this bitch and there was like 10 google image results but its okay. I will be the first Kyorl fan <3

[rukafais]

I always have a very specific image of K'yorl that none of the official art really matches....I should draw her more.

[cthulhu-cat]

[miniti8]

shows up to this fandom 15 yrs late with starbucks. hi

[web-spinning]

Why is K'yorl an called Odran but Kimmuriel is called Oblodra if they're from the same household?? I don't get it??

[lunastrophe]

Oh, and I had questions, likely unrelated to each other.

1) How do you think transgender Drow are viewed in their society (both transmen and trans women)?

2) Are there any other education paths available to noble women besides priestess/paladin?

These are very interesting questions! I will try to answer, making references both to Lolth-sworn drow culture and to drow societies that do not follow Lolth - because of some fundamental differences between them.

🕷️ Foundations of a Lolth-sworn drow society are heavily woven around male-female axis: drow who is born as a male will be raised as a male and expected to identify as one; drow who is born as a female will be raised as a female and expected to identify as one.

As far as I know, a typical Lolth-sworn drow culture does not really offer a person other options - and does not even allow them.

🕷️ Male-to-female transition (social, legal or physical) would probably be seen as an unthinkable sacrilege: an unworthy jaluk (male) trying to usurp the female's power and higher station. Female-to-male transition, on the other hand, could be perceived as a sacrilege of even worse kind - since it would be connected not to elevating, but to drastically lowering one's social status. For a typical Lolth-sworn drow, ambitious and constantly focused on "climbing the ladder", the very idea would be hard to understand.

In a Lolth-sworn drow society, a drow longing for transition of any kind would likely end up being punished, sacrificed or simply killed after being revealed. The same probably goes for drow who would be discovered using magic or magical items that alter their body and make it look like the one of the opposite sex.

The safest option would probably be to escape and start a new life away from Lolth's influence.

🕷️ Fel'rekt Lafeen is an example of a young male drow who was born female. We do not know much about his background, though - only that he was not happy with the treatment of males in his society (Lolth-sworn, most likely), so he decided to join Bregan D'aerthe and later became one of Jarlaxle's most loyal lieutenants operating in Waterdeep. He is mentioned in Waterdeep - Dragon Heist (5e).

🕷️ Corellon's blessing - according to Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes (5e), some elves blessed by Corellon can assume whatever sex they like and this rare ability can sometimes also manifest among drow:

Dark elves find this ability to be terrifying and characterize it as a curse, for it could destabilize their entire society. If Corellon's blessing manifests in a drow, that elf usually flees to the surface world to seek shelter among those dedicated to Corellon.

🕷️ I imagine that in societies that do not follow Lolth - but Eilistraee, for example, or Vhaeraun, or Ghaunadaur - transgender drow need not fear persecution and are treated as equals.

In fact, Vhaeraunan societies often lean towards patriarchy and they oppose Lolth and everything she represents - so I suppose that among followers of Vhaeraun, especially female-to-male transition might be celebrated in some way. It might be perceived as a big f-you to Lolth, especially when concerning a former Lolth-sworn.

🕷️ Professions For Noble Females - in a Lolth-sworn drow society, noble females are typically priestesses.

There are rare cases of female drow wizards of noble houses, but a noble female practicing arcane magic instead of divine one is generally seen as an oddity. In Menzoberranzan, there was a whole noble house once that produced female wizards of considerable power (House Shobalar), but it was ultimately destroyed - as a punishment for teaching their females arcane magic instead of one given by Lolth.

Liriel, daughter of Gromph Baenre, was exceptionally skilled in arcane magic, but still, she was forced to enroll into Arach-Tinilith (academy for priestesses of Lolth).

In House Oblodra, some noble Lolth-sworn females were priestesses and psions, like Matron Mother K'yorl Odran - but in the end, this house was destroyed too.

Matron Mez'Barris Armgo of House Barrison del'Armgo loved battle and she was a formidable warrior... but still, she was also a priestess.

🕷️ So generally, in a Lolth-sworn drow society, the best (and the safest) option for a noble drow female is to finish her obligatory training as a priestess - and then pursue some other career, in addition.

🕷️ In drow societies that do not follow Lolth, no restrictions of such kind apply, most likely.

Among followers of Vhaeraun, almost entire clergy consists of male drow, so noble females are likely encouraged to choose a different career path.

Hope you will find this information useful in some way 🙂

[vspin]

House Faen Tlabbar - Third House of Menzoberranzan

House Faen Tlabbar is perhaps best known for its priestesses, as well as their enjoyment of the more carnal enjoyments of life. When a group of them goes out to paint the town red, usually that happens, either through celebration or through the slaughtering of some unfortunate being who crossed them at the worst time possible. The history of Faen Tlabbar is an interesting one, as most of its advancement within rank has occurred without the house even attacking another house.

Faen Tlabbar is known for being extremely loyal to the Spider Queen, with many new incantations and divine magics being studied and created as a grace of Lloth. Though these new dark magics require the joint effort of all the clan's priestesses and High priestesses. Upon the completion of a new divine spell, more often than not it is either the Matron or one of her daughters that performs the spell for the first time for the rest of Menzoberranzan. While the Priestesses rule this clan with complete authority, there is a sense of openness within the nobles. Open discussion and criticism are welcomed, even from the males of the family, though ultimately it is the Matron and those of Lloth that have the final say and decision.

The real power behind Faen Tlabbar is its influence upon the mercantile dealings within Menzoberranzan. They co-founded the Brown Mushroom Company with Barrison del'Armgo which was created to counter the Black Claw Mercantile, backed by House Baenre. This influence within the mercantile circle has allowed the House to form "friendships" with other groups and houses, allowing them intimate knowledge of caravans and their comings and goings. Faen Tlabbar is known for being very tactful in dealing with other houses and is very diplomatic.

Nobles of Faen Tlabbar

Ghilanna Tlabbar - Matron Mother

Vadalma Tlabbar - Fifth Sister of Ghilanna

Mod'Vensis Tlabbar - Instructor of Arach Tinilith

Finni'they Tlabbar - Adopted Sister of Ghilanna

Pir'Oront Tlabbar - Firstborn son of Ghenni

Rinnill Tlabbar - Former Patron

Malaggar Tlabbar - First Sword of Melee-Magthere

Other Notables

Ghenni'tiroth Tlabbar - Deceased Matron, killed by Matron K'yorl Odran of Oblodra

Thaerlbone Faen Tlabbar - Renegade Wizard

Alliances & Rivals

Chief Alliances: Strong supporter of House Baenre; has long standing truce with House Xorlarrin.

Chief Rivals: Faen Tlabbar covets the position of House Barrison Del'Armgo; and worries most paranoically about attack from Houses Agrach Dyrr and Mizzrym.

Qu'ellar Forces

Nobles: 40

Priestesses: 22

High Priestesses: 5

House Males: 18

Fighters: 12

Wizards: 6

Drow Soldiers: 750 total Formations:

100 Elite Foot (female)

200 Archers

300 Foot

150 Lizriders

Slave Force: 800 total

Formations:

400 goblin foot

100 goblin archers

100 orc spearcasters

100 bugbears

100 trolls

[X]

[bramblepatch]

Drow women have basically always been canonically taller and heavier on average than drow men in any D&D setting with established drow lore? (On average. You still get your occasional Triel Baenre or K'yorl Odran, who are both described as notably small. Short queens.)

In the campaign I've been playing for a few years now, the DM had a big brain idea about Drow society. I love it.

[kimmurielscryingmirror]

Kimmuriel: *watches K'yorl doing her slutty shit* Kimmuriel: Someone pls tell me I'm adopted Hazaufein: You are. Kimmuriel: Kimmuriel: Thank god.

Just thinking about how an unholy slut K'yorl Odran was, the moment when she tells to someone "I'm really your mother" the person would be like "NOOOOOOOOO"

[lawful-evil-novelist]

Getting to K'yorl's scenes in Starless Night has given me a new revelation:

"In contrast with the rest of his family" my ass Kimmuriel is his mother with a half-functioning moral compass and a little more emotional control.

Said with love I absolutely adore him and his mother.

[patheticraiguy]

K'yorl Odran must be spinning in her grave when Kimmuriel became friends with Lolth cleric

[rukafais]

K'yorl is dedicated to the pleasures of life, particularly the pleasures of the mind. She uses her psionic powers more to heighten the intrigue around her and to anger her rival Matron Mothers than for any real gains. K'yorl has been known to show up (psychic messenger) uninvited to a House Baenre family dinner, or even a war conference, and Mez'Barris Armgo simply cannot get the witch out of her dreams.

i still wish they'd released another sourcebook like the one that came with the Menzoberranzan boxed set, it's super interesting and contains a lot of specific interactions and in-depth information on the Houses that don't really transfer over to later sourcebooks...

(You can read + download it here!)

[lunastrophe]

Drow Lore 🕷️ Height and Weight

🕷️Drow height parameters differ slightly in various game editions, but on the average, adult drow height ranges between 4,5 and 5,5 feet (around 137 to 168 cm), and weight – between 85 and 130 pounds (around 39 to 59 kg).

🕷️Taller Females? - drow females are said to be typically taller, heavier and stronger than males, although sources are not always consistent on the details. According to some, such differences are minuscule and hard to notice on the average – and in some others, size differences between female and male drow are quite noticeable.

Also, to make things even more confusing, sometimes male drow are depicted as taller than females, not the other way around (*cursor hovering over BG3 icon*)

🕷️Possible Explanation - differences in height between female and male drow seem to be inspired by real-life spiders, since female arachnids of various species are often bigger, heavier and stronger than males. In the most extreme cases, male spiders can be tens of times smaller than their female counterparts and they can weigh one hundredth of their weight.

Drow females who worship Lolth – especially priestesses and other females from noble houses – may emulate spiders in their preferences, typically choosing males of smaller stature than them to be their consorts.

It is possible, then, that differences in height and strength between female and male drow are more common among nobles from Lolth-oriented societies, due to culturally induced selective breeding. It may not necessarily apply, though, to all drow societies.

🕷️When Male Is Bigger - drow priestesses of Lolth who openly favour taller and stronger males are apparently rare, at least in some heavily Lolth-oriented cities like Menzoberranzan. Mez'Barris Armgo, who took the largest and the strongest male drow in the city as her consort, was even being teased because of that:

Mez’Barris took all of that in stride, as well as the teasing she endured from the other priestesses, both here and out in the city. “How can you be with a man who is stronger than you?” most women asked, seeming sincerely aghast at the thought. “It isn’t natural! Are you sure that you don’t simply prefer the bed company of women?” Mez’Barris was sure. Yes, it was unusual, almost unheard of, for a drow woman to be attracted to a man so physically superior to her (…). She would take their barbs and simply smile, and never let them all know the power of her lover, and the thrill he could give to her (…). (R. A. Salvatore, Boundless)

🕷️Tall Drow > around 5,5 ft (168 cm)

In Menzoberranzan, Uthegentel Del'Armgo – standing near to 6 ft (183 cm) and weighing nearly 200 lbs (91 kg) – was considered one of the largest drow ever seen in the city. His unusual size, combined with his violent nature and superior battle skills, were sometimes making other drow suspect that he was not a pureblood drow.

Some other notable male drow warriors, like Dantrag Baenre, Andzrel Baenre or Ryld Argith, were also described as tall – Dantrag was especially tall, being closer to 6 ft than 5 ft (between 168 and 183 cm).

Among female drow who were considered exceptionally tall, there was Halisstra Melarn (almost 5,5 ft / 168 cm), Matron Mez'Barris Armgo, who was not only a priestess, but also a fierce warrior, and Briza Do'Urden, daughter of Matron Malice Do'Urden and Uthegentel.

🕷️Small Drow < around 5 ft (153 cm)

At least two drow matron mothers were considered short even by drow standards: Triel Baenre (less than 5 ft / 153 cm) and K'yorl Odran, who looked not only small, but also physically weak and unremarkable.

Iljrene Ahbruyn, priestess of Eilistraee and friend of Qilué Veladorn, was described as „tiny” and could be easily mistaken for a little girl.

For more of my drow lore ramblings, feel free to check my pinned post 🕷️

[rukafais]

Can your son hurt people with his mind? Didn't think so, Yvonnel

[rukafais]

“You ask me to serve as your instrument, your assassin against House Baenre, but do so without wishing me to expose myself to their wrath?” he asked skeptically. “Not my instrument, but my conduit to my instrument,” K’yorl said with a crooked and knowing little smile, one that took Kimmuriel back across the centuries, one that he had known well in his youth.

Kimmuriel’s relationship with his mom is so fucked up, he really is his mom’s handcrafted little prodigy/weapon with all the messed up psychological baggage that implies. Love the drama though.

[rukafais]

K'yorl is the worst and she's my favourite good time girl. I would love to have like a whole collection of stories that just deal with pre-Drizzt Menzo politics slapfights cause some of the gray box stuff is actually really fascinating tbh