#Izuocha critical

[bibibbon]

You know it's funny (but it's really not) how Izuku is there for Ochaco when she bawls about being unable to save Toga - yet she and the rest of 1A abandon Izuku for eight years while he has no quirk and can't act as a hero.

He could really have used some support from his friends after the war and dealing with his new quirklessness, yet she and the rest of 1A - poof! Gone like a fart in the wind.

She isn't beating the fake friend allegations which is worse for her considering Hori tried some half hearted set up for IzuOcha with her crush on Izuku that seems to have evaporated now.

It's sad but a repeating thing it seems like. Everytime someone needs help (well majority of the time) izuku is there and indeed offers help or what he can but when izuku needs help there aren't people who help him. I was hoping in chapter 429 that ochako and izuku would at least be able to have a proper heart to heart where they both comfort eachother and izuku talks about tomura but no the narrative continually shuts Izuku's trauma and strips him of any agency or autonomy. In the end Izuku is never allowed to unpack his emotional baggage and trauma he also is never allowed to rely on anyone properly which is just sad

They graduated 6 years ago (izuku lost his quirk shortly after graduation if Iam sure) so Izuku has been quirkless for 6 years however, it does hold truth 1A isn't a found family. All we know is that due to work they don't talk much but like you have technology and everything so it just seems like they straight up abandoned him in a way just to be seen interacting with him when he is a hero which leaves a bad taste and impression on me.

The thing is Izuku could of very much used support from his classmates after the war and while you can argue that they all had their own trauma to deal with that is also their friend (supposedly) and in chapter 429 asui literally told ochako that she wanted her to open up to her but I suppose there's no one for izuku to open up to as he does try to reach out to his classmates but they reply with "they're fine" or something else which is disappointing since they did say that they were there for him during the vigilante arc (although I still don't like how they got him back to ua)

I can't say much about izuocha since horikoshi used it as a way for ochako to develop out of her crush which I think was horribly done and introduced a weird dynamic that didn't make sense while making ochakos character full of wasted potential.

[doodlegirl1998]

Izuku's backstory was severely overlooked.

To the point where it effects his character and certain things going unmentioned.

But I think the one thing that gets unmentioned the most is how he feels about love and romance.

Now I know romance isn't a strong point in Shonen, but I feel it could've been used effectively and really give some depth in Izuku's story.

Like have it be revealed that he probably doesn't feel worthy of being in a romantic relationship because his way of thinking is this

"Who would ever wanna get with a quirkless nobody like me?"

And

"Who would ever wanna get with someone who's quirk hurts him and makes him a liability?"

Have a flashback where a girl asked him out and it turns out to have been a cruel prank to humiliate him for ever believing someone could love him.

Sure he has an idea for a date, but that doesn't mean he can't imagine what being in a relationship would be like.

It's half the reason why I don't like Izuocha since she expresses how she feels about him but we never see if he even feels the same way.

Hi @theloganator101 👋

Definitely agree with this. There's lots of missed opportunities with Izu especially given his backstory.

If Hori actually acknowledged Izu's backstory, this could have been an interesting plot line with IzuOcha to go down.

I mentioned to you in another post where you spoke about this - that I feel like "I must push my feelings down" would canonically fit more with Izu than Ocha regarding his feelings for her. I could see Izu feeling like he doesn't deserve her / not wanting to lose her friendship if things go wrong. Add on your idea about a girl asking Quirkless!Izu out as a joke (which I could see happening - kids are cruel) and that would neatly explain why Izu hasn't asked out Ocha despite liking her a lot.

In canon, Hori avoids mentioning Izu's backstory like the plague because it would reveal / remind the audience that Bkg is a POS to Izu.

Protecting BKG, to Hori, seems to come above his MC and all aspects of his life - exploring Izu's backstory and past quirklessness? Exploring IzuOcha? Exploring both Ocha and Iida (Izu's first real friends)? All ignored to protect Bkg or give him focus that he doesn't deserve.

Poor Izu. Bakugou is a cancer on his life and the story of MHA as a whole.

[sapphic-agent]

So I made it pretty clear that I don't ship Izuocha as I find it bland and that it's pretty much shipping 101 for a series.

But when you actually see the dynamic unfold, it really doesn't have the structure for a ship outside of them getting flustered around each other.

Uraraka called him plain looking at the beginning and even questioned if he was going to fight quirkless which, given his unspoken backstory, would've hit a nerve for him to hear someone he likes say such a thing.

And then there's the whole shoving her feelings aside to focus on hero work which, that I don't have much of a problem with since there are some people out there who would rather focus on their careers first before pursuing a relationship.

But this just ties back to Hori preventing Izuku from having anything nice because why is it only HIS love interest that's doing this? What about any of the other girls or even pro heroes? In fact it's been alluded that Kamui Woods and Mount Lady have something going on so heroes being in a relationship isn't something that's distracting or get in the way of their work.

But Izuku isn't entirely innocent in this either.

If this is supposed to be a couple that's obviously meant to be together in the end, why hasn't he had any scenes of admiring her or flustering over her? It's always been Uraraka.

Now if it was revealed that he doesn't view himself as someone worthy of being in a romantic relationship because of something that happened in his past, that would be fun to explore... but we don't get that!

But the cherry on top of this and maybe it's just me, but I don't like how this is a couple where the guy is only interested because she was the first girl that was nice to him. It just comes across as a bit unhealthy to me.

Now maybe if this was explored and have him fall for someone else, including that realizing that clinging onto the first person who was nice to him isn't okay, then we would have an interesting arc.

But I think that's just me I guess.

I totally get where you're coming from!

I'm not big on IzuOcha myself. If I'm being 100% honest, I actually really like their platonic relationship a lot more. They had decent chemistry in the beginning and she was his first real friend. I'm not saying they shouldn't be together, but Horikoshi should have spent more time on their friendship before even mentioning their romantic feelings.

The plain face thing annoys me, but Horikoshi shits on his own MC constantly for no reason so I don't hold this against Uraraka. I agree that the shoving her feelings aside thing is weird especially because we don't spend that much time seeing her develop as a hero. It's so focused on Izuku whole trying to not make things about Izuku. It's so weird. Like it's fine if it's mentioned or implied, but why it is more centered on her feelings for Izuku then it is on her growing and developing her skills? And you're right because Jirou doesn't do that with Kaminari even though she's way more likely than Uraraka to hide what she's really feeling. I like to chalk it up to Horikoshi not knowing how to write women as main characters.

I totally agree that it's weird that Izuku doesn't get flustered or embarrassed around her. Especially since he did in the beginning and it's implied that he had feelings for her first (or at least attraction). It's odd that Horikoshi dropped this (it might be part of him making Izuku less three dimensional and complex as the series goes on because if you pay attention, a lot of the qualities Izuku had in the beginning of the show really diminish).

Like most things, I like to think that IzuOcha is simply wasted potential (and maybe was ignored/disregarded im favor of you-know-who but I can't prove it). I definitely see why you don't like it

[sapphic-agent]

My biggest problem with Uraraka's arc is that in stating that she's going to focus on improving herself and not on her feelings for Izuku... Hori focused more on her avoiding Izuku than her actually improving. Like, her progression was still centered around him without having them actually interact and connect which is why they feel so stale and forced (MHA sucks at character interaction in general). And we didn't even get to see her really evolve as a hero. We never see her train or better herself other than mentally and even that's overly implicit.

This coming from someone who actually really likes Uraraka and doesn't have any negative feelings around IzuOcha as a concept. Hori was cooking with her character around the Sports Festival but utterly wasted that potential. It's just disappointing more than anything

I'm gonna say a controversial topic here... i believe that horikoshi making ochako izuku's implied love interest has been the greatest disservice to her character and her relationship with izuku.

What i mean is that hori doesn't even try to make storylines with her that aren't related towards her feelings for him, not to mention that it caused to ironically make her more distant to izuku in the platonic plane, just to shoehorn bakugou there.

This also makes me question ¿in what fucking way is toga her foil? The more i see criticism of the story, or read fanfiction of it, i end understanding less and less as to how toga fits in the picture of ochako's arc.

I found more fulfillment for izuku and ochako's romances... when their paired with other people (Except bakugou and toga, because reasons).

Nah, I wouldn’t say this is controversial at all.

Now I’m not saying that Hori making Ochako Izuku’s love interest is what he did wrong. Where he went wrong is how the relationship between them is developing. He had a good start where Ochako became his first friend, and even set off the idea of Ochako having her own goals and wanting to get strong on her own accord, but this girl has had very little screen time in general. Sure, we have her speech at the end of the Izuku Solo Arc and her taking down Neito who was going to sneak attack Izuku, but how is it that Ochako has less screen time than Shoto or Katsuki? Yes, Shoto’s themes tie into the story, but if you’re going to set up a relationship, you should actually develop that relationship, and that involves giving both characters more interactions. With Katsuki, well, you already know my thoughts about his screen presence. Ochako and Izuku should’ve also had more moments when they aren’t involved in battle, where they’re allowed to be themselves. Other than the first season, most of their relationship develops in the heat of battle, which while the heat of battle can be great for developing relationships, it isn’t a good way to solely develop that relationship.

In conclusion, the concept of the relationship itself isn’t the problem, it’s how Hori writes the relationship and how little screen time Ochako and Izuku actually get together that’s the issue.

[bicheetopuff]

I just saw the worst takes about bnha’s ending on Instagram (three days ago now, as of posting this). So, today we’re gonna talk about Izuocha, shonen homoeroticism, and fandom… not in that order though…

I: Fandom

Fandom culture for all media has basically always been a war zone that you have to actively avoid, usually with two defining sides: people who try to enjoy media the way they want to enjoy it, and the people who say that everyone is wrong and attack others who they don’t agree with. There are shades of gray on both sides, but in general this is usually the case. It’s never been “‘alphabet mafia’ vs ��normal’” or “fanon vs canon” or “right vs wrong”… I almost always see people having fun being attacked unwarranted (I am not saying that people being legitimately problematic shouldn’t be called out, pls don’t get me wrong. I’m talking about innocent fun!). And I’m not just talking about dudebros attacking shippers, I’ve seen a lot of shippers attack non-shippers/other shippers of a different ship, and it’s almost always people just saying “you’re wrong, I’m right, and your take ruins this media piece of media for everyone else.” That being said, I wanna talk about the highlighted parts of these comments, okay? But first I need to explain the video that these comments were on.

It was a video by @/d_rich7 on Instagram, a big anime creator, talking about this tweet:

To summarize the video, he went on to say that he’s not surprised because bnha has the worst shipping community since Naruto and how Horikoshi probably felt forced into not confirming any ships because of “threats and hate mail” that he got from his fandom. I’ll come back to that but first I’ll talk about some of the comments:

“At least, they can say they weren’t the reason for the downfall of their anime.”

I've seen this take from different parts of the fandom, whether it was in regard to ships, todofam, or the villains. Just because the narrative of a story ends up matching the theories of people you disagree with, doesn't mean the story is going through a downfall. Just accept that you were wrong and move on. It is okay to not like certain aspects of the story and it's okay to discuss and criticize it, but pinning the blame on people who just happened to be right, no matter how much you hate it, is not okay.

“People need to stop demanding the literal CREATOR of a series to do things how they want it done…They to learn it’s not their story to tell…”

“…like I don’t get how people who have no impact on the writing of a story get mad because the CREATORS don’t wanna use their personal ideas.”

“…from now on imma blame the fandom for fucking up the anime/manga, we could’ve had a better ending if it wasn’t for them…”

Outside of the context, I actually agree with the sentiment that fans shouldn't feel so entitled that they think they have any control over the media they're consuming. But, the commenters don't realize that they're doing the exact thing that they’re talking about. They're convinced that the queer shipping community is the reason the creator decided not to confirm any relationship and are pissed off that the ship they were rooting for, didn't happen. Why are they exempt from this rule? Because straight ships are supposed to happen and queer ships aren't? Because the boy is supposed to win the girl at the end in order to develop a good shonen? I'll go into the misogynistic implications of that later.

Other than that, I have seen a lot of people on tumblr get mad about other things, like before, regarding to the villains and todofam drama to the point that they started insulting Hori. Like I said, it's okay to be mad. Being mad about something doesn't make you a bad person but it was never our story to tell. Criticism and hate, are two different things and come off very differently.

“MHA’s fandom is filled to the brim with toxic, no shower taking, furry loving, lgbtq idiots…”

Honestly I added this one because he's right. We're here, we're queer, and we're idiots in the best way possible. However, I think this also says the quiet part out loud when it comes to the hatred towards bnha and it's fandom.

Shipping communities in other fandoms don't get anywhere near as harassed as often as the shipping communities in the bnha fandom despite not being much different. The difference is, a lot of us identify as and are recognized as queer and Hori himself even recognized that the LGBT community especially took a liking to his manga. But, in other fandoms, it's only okay to consider queer ships if they're recognized by the cishet audience.

Most people in the aot fandom don't have an issue with eremin because it was something recognized and memed by straight men, even if it was mostly as a joke. The kny fandom doesn't care about inotan because it was also recognized and memed by straight men. Narusasu doesn't get much hate anymore because the straight men of their fandom also started to recognize the characters weird obsession with each other and it became more difficult to ignore the ship since there was literally multiple accidental kiss scenes--one of the few times where the source material actively encourages shipping. I can keep going too.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, non-shonen animes with majority cishet women as their audience, no one bats an eye at their ships either, because there's not enough men in their communities to tell them they should feel ashamed for their fanon content and their words hold no weight… and there’s a lot less queer people in those fandoms. You see the trend, right? It's almost like queer shipping is perfectly okay and mostly accepted as long as the community is either majority cishet men, or those men grant permission/approval for the specific ships or the piece of media wasn’t “meant for men.” Otherwise, it's seen as gross and cringe.

There was one other community that was kind of similar to bnha in a sense that it was mostly consumed by queer people and cishet men, where there was a lot of discourse on whether the two main characters were queer or not… which is the Buddy Daddies fandom. When the show was airing, those two sides that I talked about earlier were pretty apparent, with people having heated arguments about whether there were queer undertones or not. The cishet men of the fandom didn't give their approval to ship Rei and Kazuki, so it became an issue. Same with JJK now, more so with itafushi though. SatoSugu was given a somewhat stamp of approval but itafushi is still seen as taboo.

However, for some reason, every queer ship and character (even if it's canon) in bnha is seen as something shameful to recognize which I think is very telling considering how large the queer and disabled part of the fandom is. Minorities are being punished for relating to a manga with discrimination as one of it's core themes. Do what you want with that...

“…hate-mail just pushed him over the edge so he just scrapped everything just as punishment to spite them…”

This kind of references rumors from a few years ago about the shipping community sending hate mail and death threats towards Horikoshi and everyone just running with it without doing their research.

Horikoshi did receive death threats but it was about Dr.Garaki's original name which you can read about here. It was mostly the eastern side of the fandom being aggressive, even going as far as posting videos of them burning the volume where Garaki's name was revealed which isn't okay. However, everyone blamed it on the western shipping community... for whatever reason...

There was another instance where people in the western fandom started sending Horikoshi death threats on his twitter because of a chapter about Endeavor getting attacked by Dabi and an Nomu and the Todo family being worried about him, people claiming that Hori "deserved to die" for romanticizing and glorifying abuse (when that wasn't at all the case, I'm genuinely confused on how they interpreted that...). This came out six years ago but somehow is still narrowed down to the queer community and women being toxic... like what? Do you see my point now of it feeling like we need to be granted permission to do certain things in fandom if we don't want to be punished?

Also who was Hori punishing by not confirming any ships? If anything, I’ve seen most shippers appreciative than not…

II: Ochako Uraraka and her relationship with Izuku Midoriya

Back to that point about misogyny that I mentioned earlier...

"...I would have lowkey wish we got to see deku and ochaco end up together since their relationship was hinted from the beginning..."

Quick warning... this is gonna be a long point.

Yes, they were attracted to each other at the beginning, no one is denying that. No one is denying Ochako’s crush either. Izuku’s nervous around her for the first like 50-ish chapters because he's still used to having friends (especially a girl. If you think about it, if his childhood friends were the only friends he had ever had before getting shunned by his community, then he had never had a girl as a friend before... ever) but their relationship eventually mellows out into a normal friendship. Given Ochako and Toga's arc, I don't think Izuocha was ever destined to end romantically.

Toga was desperate to be loved by someone who accepted her for who she was while Ochako was desperate to be able to show love to someone who she truly admired. Ochako wanted to be like Deku and tried for a while until she realized that she couldn’t and shouldn’t want to be like Deku. She thinks he’s amazing but she realizes that she can’t strive to be like him because she’s already like him but wants to change.

(this is kind of off topic but I just want to point out what Ochako said about Toga being sad about not being able to totally become Jin. Correct me if I'm remembering wrong but, Toga was only able to ever transform into Ochako completely, quirk and all. I think there's an analogy there, where her being able to be just like someone possibly means she's in love with them but she convinces herself that she loves everyone equally. I think it's supposed to be saying that "even though you can't be him completely, doesn't mean you don't love him, you just don't love him in the way you thought you did" and I think Ochako realizes that because she possibly had the same realization with Izuku. Becoming him didn't work out for her because she didn't love him the way others told her she did... I guess it wasn't off topic... oh well.)

The highlighted parts can apply to Ochako too if you replace “bloodlust” with “envy”. She suffered the same issue that Toga did with other people telling her how and who to love which made her feel like she was supposed to be jealous.

She didn't like these feelings of jealousy, so she began to unintentionally be like Deku and hide them. I don't think she ever had an issue with loving Deku but she had an issue with the way she convinced herself of how she loved Deku made her feel. It made her feel like she was hiding something because I think she felt conflicted for not loving him the way everyone expected her to. All the way up to her final fight with Toga, we were only getting intel about her crush from other characters. Not her.

There's a lot of Mina just telling her what her feelings are despite Mina canonically not knowing much about love. Her crush has always been projected onto her which is why she's able to relate to Toga so well and wants to be more like her since Toga is able to live as herself so comfortably and broke away from conformity and what's expected of her.

Ochako's crush is only there because it's expected to be and her arc is meant to prove that she can be more than just the MCs love interest. Ochako's projected crush is Horikoshi trying to prove a point about basic shonen tropes which he's done time and time again throughout the story. SHE WANTS TO LIVE AND LOVE HOW SHE PLEASES WITHOUT SOCIETY TELLING HER HOW TO JUST LIKE TOGA WAS ABLE TO DO! I WILL KEEP SAYING IT UNTIL MY THROAT IS RAW AND DUDEBROS BEGIN TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND AND NOT VIEW FEMALE CHARACTERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN EYE CANDY FOR THE MALE CHARACTERS!!!

In the epilogue. she hides her feelings with a smile because she doesn't want to worry anyone (sound familiar?) so it only makes sense that it was Deku who pushed her to let out her feelings despite not practicing what he preaches. So, she embraced her inner Himiko and let out her feelings with her whole face. Those feeling just weren't for Deku... and they shouldn't have to be.

I genuinely feel like (especially with the way dudebros hate queer ships in this fandom) if Ochako was a boy, her arc wouldn't have been so widely misinterpreted. Because if he had talked about how amazing Izuku was and Mina came in and still said "It's love!" most fans would've taken it as a joke and/or even going as far as pointing out that the crush wasn't real because he didn't actually admit to it and it was projected onto him by other characters. But, the world ain't ready for that conversation.

"...I saw it as the fandom tryn to force their ships into the story 100% ruining key moments..."

I mainly added this quote because I thought it was so absurd. How do you see class-a coming to support Ochako as "omg it's the fandom forcing their agenda and controlling Hori through mind control to force their ships into the story and ruin this key moment,"??? Like, is it really so unthinkable that Horikoshi can have creative freedom outside the norm of treating girl characters as a trophy for the MC? You expected Izuku to marry her on the spot while she's having a mental breakdown? It's just... anyways...

III: Old-Gen Shonen Homoeroticism and it's Relation with Internalized Misogyny and how New-Gen is Changing That

The Shonen genre - especially old gen - is notorious for it's accidental misogyny, queerphobia, and racism. It got to the point where it's just kind of expected at this point.

The main one is usually misogyny. A lot of shonen mangaka like to write women as nothing more than eye candy and when they are actually given a personality and power, their character arcs are suddenly ignored/neglected and turned back into eye candy. Take Tsunade and Nezuko for example. We're told that they're important and powerful and yet they rarely do anything and almost never get important speaking lines and when we get to see them in action, the author makes sure to highlight certain parts of their bodies. Nezuko I think is an especially obvious one, being literally muzzled for most of the story, and when she powers up, she grows up and is suddenly given huge boobs...

Almost every shonen girls' character arcs revolves around a man and if not, then their existence is for the sake of a male character. I will say, I havent watched much shonen because of this aspect that's always apparent, but almost every older shonen I've watched, read, or seen other people talk about, it rears its ugly head at least once.

Because of that, most love interests weren’t given enough personality to actually form a meaningful relationship with the MC that the audience - especially female and queer audiences - can connect to. More often than not, it’s “I like her cuz she’s pretty” or “I like her cuz she likes me” and it’s irritating. And since these relationships are so shallow, authors are forced to create an interesting bond between the MC and a different character which usually ends up being the deuteragonist who is usually another boy more often than not. And boys in media written “for boys” are almost never neglected the way a girl would be, which is a sad truth.

These relationships almost always end up feeling like they’re passed the point of friendship and because of that, a lot of women and queer people end up shipping them instead of the canon love interest. Because their relationship being romantic actually makes sense most of the time.

BakuDeku, Eremin, KilluaGon, NaruSasu, ItaFushi, SatoSugu, IsaBachi, HideKan, GenoSai, LawLight, the list can go on for fucking ever.

However, in bnha and BakuDeku’s case, especially when the “canon” relationship with the “canon” love interest wasn’t really developed at all, and we never got a hint from Deku that he liked her, I don’t think this homoeroticism wasn’t intentional. Like with a lot of new-gen, there wasn’t really blatant misogyny towards the “love interest” present to explain away the closeness between the two male leads.

All of the roles a love interest would usually have, were given to Katsuki. He was damseled for Deku to save, he was Deku’s biggest cheerleader, he risked his life to save Deku, he died in Izuku’s honor, he showed up for Izuku when no one else thought to, he showed up to his hospital room and cried over the condition he was in, and then he devoted nearly a decade of his life trying to bring Izuku’s dream back into fruition… He cares so fucking much and Izuku cares right back. And no one can convince me that it was accidentally gay, because Horikoshi literally felt the need to tell AND remind us that Katsuki doesn’t like girls. Plus, like I said before, all of that was done without neglecting Uraraka’s character arc.

But even though all of that is in text, I think shonen bros just expect it while also expecting the main girl and boy to be together… because that’s how it always used to be. It wasn’t until new-gen - starting with mha - started to purposely parody dated shonen tropes and twisting them into their own stories that shonen bros began to feel threatened by queer ships. Because they know that there’s actually a chance of them happening now, and I feel like IzuOcha not being canonized is the beginning of a new trend. And misogynistic anime fans already hate it.

Conclusion - TLDR

uh idk what to say here.

In conclusion, fandom culture kinda sucks because of unexpected reasons, Ochako’s character arc is ignored for the sake of men wanting her to be Izuku’s prize and it’s irritating as fuck, and I think previously accidental homoeroticism in old-gen shonen is becoming purposeful in new-gen shonen as new-gen slowly becomes more progressive and less misogynistic. Oh and bkdk canon ig (I don’t think I’ve ever said that before, strangely enough…)

[medusasea]

The Potential of IzuOcha

Whe it comes to the IzuOcha ship, I am somewhere in the middle. While I hate the mha ending, I think them not becoming a couple makes the most sense. While it was confirmed that Uraraka has a crush on Midoriya, there were very few hints if at all that he feels the same and even if there truly were hints about that, they were so subtle, that interpreting Deku as seeing Uraraka as just a friend is also possible and I see where people who don't ship these two characters. However, had these two ended up as a couple at the end, I would've considered it totally believable, if underdeveloped on Deku's side.

These two are so similar: similar values, similar way of talking, perseverance, wish for independence. They are also very close to each other. They are often seen together and the way they talk to each other is s adorable. They know each other well, they bring the best in each other (admittedly some of those moments are good according to the manga only, but this is more of a problem with the overall writing rather than with the relationship between Midoriya and Uraraka), they usually manage t lift each other up.

These two have such great chemistry. When I say chemistry, I don't refer to romantic relationships only, it can also be about platonic ones, or those left to your interpretations, whether the feelings are platonic or not.

As I mentioned, Midoriya's feelings weren't nearly as developed as Uraraka's, but I don't see any proof he never felt or never had the potential to develop romantic feelings for her as well. The manga managed to portray their friendship as close and a close friendship is the start of good romance (there are stories with love at first sight, but that's a different topic altogether). I don't even see IzuOcha as a romance for the ages, but more like a cute highschool crush between two close friends.

I do call myself a IzuOcha shipper, even though I wouldn't have been entirely satisfied if they did end up together, considering it would've been largely underdeveloped, but I see so much chemistry between these two, I can't help but get invested in the potential of developing them as a couple, even though the manga is done.

Now, it is possible Horikoshi will turn them into a couple in a sequel or so, but the manga had so many other huge issues that no sequel could fix it, though I still wouldn't mind IzuOcha becoming canon, unless they get written horrendously. Even if they never get set officially as a couple, headcanons and fanfiction are fine for me.

[potatoof69]

ppl will do anything to deny a yuri ship man imagine if ochaco said "let's talk about romance" to a guy and called his smile "the cutest in the whole world".

like that shit would be canon fast nobody would deny it. and if by the end of this hypothetical bnha run ochaco had turned around and ended up with some other dude people would go insane, but bc it's wlw it's just not taken seriously.

it's like if katara had said to zuko "let's talk about romance" down in that cave or if zuko had called her cute. and then katara ends up with aang with no further mention of that. zutara shippers would be going more apeshit than they already did.

but bnha can just leave the issue hanging for 30 chapters, nearly one whole year, and then just kill off toga at the end offscreen and it's all fine i guess when izuocha inevitably happens because it has a boy and a girl instead of a girl and a girl.

[hamliet]

I agree with you, Hamliet. Overall, Naruto have a better story compared to BNHA. But, I'm glad that at least BNHA ended with no canon pairing (it's refresing compared to other big fandom shounen, like Naruto and Bleach).

So, you said in your post "That because of "loud" (BKDK) shippers, Hori scared to made Izuku/Ochaco canon." Can I ask, why do you think that? It's a het ship, cutest couple (yes, even if I'm BKDK shipper, I can say that IzuOcha is a cute ship), and one of the best dynamic in the series.

I mean, as long time Naruto fan, I realized that there are big fandom for NaruSasu shippers. When I was younger, I did not understand why people ship NaruSasu, until now I became NaruSasu shipper myself. But even if there are a lot of Dj, cd drama, merch, etc made by NaruSasu Shippers, Naruto still ending with Naruto/Hinata and Sasuke/Sakura, right? What is the difference between NaruSasu shippers and BakuDeku shippers?

There isn't a difference between shippers! It's just that there's a difference with authors.

No, Naruto didn't fulfill everything it set out to do, but it still landed where the author had always planned it: Sasuke and Naruto hashing it out, the couples together.

Horikoshi did none of that. I've said before that he was a wishy-washy writer trying to please everyone, but in the end he kind of gave up. And that's sad, but also spineless writing that has resulted in people being genuinely hurt by the messages sent about abuse victims, ableism, etc.

I don't think Bakudeku was ever a canon option, much like Narusasu, but are the mangakas aware of it as they write it? Absolutely.

The thing about ships is that you should not introduce a canon dynamic into a story with a romantic element unless that romantic element matters for the story. This doesn't have to mean "will be canon" but that's the most common way to explore it. Izuocha had that.

Ochaco just... sat on her feelings for 8 years and barely contacted Deku? That makes absolutely no sense for a guy she supposedly loves. If he rejected her, why wasn't that onscreen? Why was this even a plot point if the story didn't do anything with it? What is the reason for seemingly just dropping it?

Most likely? The same reason the rest of the story fails to make any kind of significant statement about anything: he doesn't want to upset anybody so confirms nothing. No one wins. Unfortunately that means no one is happy.

It's not shippers' fault. It's not even the worst decision made in this manga ending by top 20. It's just more of the "all for naught" message that Horikoshi unintentionally sent.

[mccloudyyy]

OK SO I HAVENT WATCHED MHA IN FOREVER but I wish Deku was the one who started crushing on Ururaka first

So I'm not up-to-date with any of the newer stuff so forgive me if any of my info is wrong! From what I remember Ururaka liked Deku first. I think Deku ends up crushing on her later (correct me if I'm wrong tho)

But personally I like the idea of Deku having to balance his hero life and his normal life. I would have loved to see him struggle with his crush and realize that "hey I've gotta focus on being a hero"

Now ik that is what kinda happens with Ururaka during the whole provisional hero license exam arc (although it's not well written) but tbh I just don't see her getting distracted from her goals as easily as she did. She has been motivated to be a hero ever since she was a child and you're telling me that some crush is making her less focused?? She wants to become a hero to give her parents a easier life and she wants to be a help heros as well. AND A SIMPLE CRUSH DISTRACTS HER??? LIKE THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL

While I don't think Deku would get super distracted by a crush, I feel like he would realize that he needs to think realistically. We are always shown the negatives of being a hero and I would love to see how being a hero affects their personal lives and Deku would be a good place to start with that! Like having him crush on her but realizing that during the provisional license exam arc that rn he can't focus on romance and stuff like that. So then he grows and Ururaka grows and they both develop into good characters 😎

[mikeellee]

Sometimes I wonder if Hori wanted to pair Ochako with someone else, never his beloved through, bc scenes like this...gags like that are funny bc we are meant to laugh at Izu, never with him.

And while he is not a creepy fan (Nighteyed existed for that) not thrilled he NEVER change his mindset.

Bk is stagnated character.

So is Izu.

Also AM is MEGA POPULAR...why this scene has to be "creepy"?

@bibibbon

[bibibbon]

One thing that makes me laugh about Hori's world building is the question are heroes allowed to kill, since Hori is a coward who can't decide, it disrupts the world building to an absurd degree. If Izuku had aimed to kill Tomura from the start, then Hori's narrative would have rewarded him. Izuku would still have OFA, possibly Ochako as his girlfriend and applauded as a great hero. The standard hero ending. But Izuku tries to save Tomura and fails miserably and is forgotten by his friends and the public. What is Hori trying to tell us? Kill then ask questions later? Based on the story Izuku should have taken Gran Torino's advice, he would be sad in the short term but he would have been happier and forgotten about the LOV.

Hi @agentterios 👋

MHA'S whole narrative messaging around the subject of "are heroes allowed to kill?" Is presented in an incredibly confusing and unsatisfactory manner.

Horikoshi doesn't directly address the question however, he does indirectly address it by introducing a variety of elements to his story surrounding the question itself.

You have things like:

The development of nomu intelligence. By the nomu's developing basic human intelligence this makes it so that the line between being human and a nomu so incredibly slim that if well developed this plot point could of been tied to heteamorphis discrimation with a side of people taking the route of one has to look human and another side pointing out that humans don't have a specific look in mha. There could also be more development with endings point of the only difference between nomu's and humans is that one is a puppet. This would make civilians question societies expectations for what a human is and would the heroes kill them next because they are comfortable with killing nomu's who are almost like them

Hawks and twice. I have talked about hawks and twice a numerous amount of times but my point still stands hawks could of saved twice instead of killing him. Yes, hawks did try in the beginning of the fight and his mission to semi try and save twice as his intention was to never kill him until dabi intervened and hawks lost it reverting to what the hpsc taught him and taking out the danger infront of him. Now, hawks should of had more introspection on this decision realising that he could of saved twice yet didn't and couldn't because he viewed himself not to be fast or capable enough to stop twice and chose to revert to instincts and the hpsc teachings of killing to dispose of the threat. Hawks could easily link his experiences and give advice to izuku about shigaraki. Hawks also needed more public consequences about killing twice because why the hell is the public more concerned about hawk's villain father then the fact that he killed a man? Was this to show where societies priorities are at? How messed up they are? And if it was why wasn't this brought back up?

Lady nagant. We needed more of lady nagant in general. The way she was used and created to be a killing machine. The way she only killed those who didn't fit the status quo even izuku's own reaction to her killing needs to be studied. The way izuku didn't have much of a reaction to her killing people but he had a huge reaction to finding out that she specifically killed the previous minister of the hpsc makes me think that hero society has a huge belief thay certain lives are much more important than others and that ranking is never fully explained but it seems like the outcasts of society like twice and the people lady nagant killed aren't important and wouldn't evoke a huge reaction to people because they don't care for them and hero society has infulenced that belief.

Izuku and shigaraki . This is the biggest element in the story and the most underdeveloped in my opinion. Why does izuku want to save shigaraki? Why does shigaraki only want destruction? Everyone encouraged izuku to kill shigaraki and believed that his death would be the only way to stop everything and in a way they were right. Shigaraki had to die for this to be over and it just seemed so badly done. Izuku gets labeled as a murder but also praised (barely) for his actions. Its so weird, how am I supposed to expect that society is going to rebuild itself to a better version when it ended in the most repetitive and toxic way by killing and upholding the status quo.

Endeavour and his aggressiveness. Enji has multiple records of flipping attempted murder whether that be him viewing vigilantes and villains as objects to be easily killed like nomu's or the fact that he cannocially has many reports of property damages.

Dabi's fate. My point stands that death would of been mercy for poor dabi. So are there cases when killing should happen or should all villains be forced to live even if it has to be through horrible circumstances like dabi's? At this point it seemed like toga's death was a better ending then dabi's.

In conclusion, mha's status quo was never really broken or rebuilt into a better version and the discussion surrounding the question should heroes kill? Was never properly answered or changed.

The series begins with the answer that Yes! Heroes can kill but they can only kill villains and rejects of society while keeping all of this away from the public eye. However, if it is in the public eye just dehumanise the victim, its not like hero society didn't continually threaten villains with all the graffiti in toga's House or the publics reaction to dabi.

(Ps I do think that izuku was handed the short stick and would of suffered either way. Even with the horrible execution the series make it clear that izuku chose a thorny, hard path but what's worse is that the path doesn't seem to be worth it or hasn't changed anything)

Also izuku's whole arc doesn't depend on him having a love interest and a quirk because he could be a hero without those things it's the execution that sucks

[doodlegirl1998]

Was thinking about a few reviews I got on my fic "Let it go" and while yes the adults failed Izu once again...the people of his age is any better.

It makes me want a scenario where when Ochako confess her feelings...I so want Izu to say no.

I know this wont happen at all.

But the more I think about ...the more I realize that if Ochako tells "I like you" Izu will cry and Ochako, at best, will think is a silly thing he does sometimes.

Aka she has no idea Izu thinks so low of himself.

But she was ok in being Toga's blood bank.

Hori vai tomar no cu!

Hi @mikeellee 👋,

Here's why IzuOcha is no longer a ship of mine, despite the fact that I liked it when the series first began.

It is so so poorly built up and the development of it has stagnated to the point where I no longer root for IzuOcha to be a couple.

The only hints of it in canon is Ocha blushing around Izu and others like Aoyama and Mina aggressively shipping them. Add on to the fact that this sudden crush comes from nowhere. Ocha suddenly likes Izu now, despite calling him plain at the start of the series and his looks not changing... Ok Hori, this needs development! Why does she suddenly like him now? Does Izu even like her back? Tell and show us please, Hori!

But we hardly see Izu and Ocha around each other anymore, they rarely confide in each other or spend time together. In fact, Ocha actively surpresses her crush for Izu "I must push these feelings down" yet freely offers to be a blood bank for Psychopathic Toga without any shame. When actually the latter, simping for an unrepentant villain, should garner more shame.

Toga is unrepentant in her murderous ways and is now being rewarded for it in the narrative by getting one of her crushes as a blood bank.

Yet Izu cannot be allowed to have his love interest even confess to him or support him.

Izu is one of the nicest characters in MHA. He should have people lining up to be with him, not have his canon love interest Ocha push her feelings of him down as if they are something to be ashamed of!

[thedeadestmeme]

my apologies to the IzuOcha fans, but bruh,,, alright, i’m catching up on MHA and every time that Uraraka’s arc gets interrupted by her pining over Deku, i swear it’s so painful. i’ll admit that IzuOcha is a cute pairing and i do relate to the whole “becoming super goofy over a crush”, but dude… duDEEEE.

she’s been my favorite character since the beginning. so much of her character is so relatable. i just want to see her grow as a person and a hero without having a romantic side plot.

like yes, i know it’s supposed to be cute. but nearly every conversation has been taken over by another character teasing her about her crush. i want to enjoy seeing Uraraka bond with Mina, Aoyama, or her other classmates without them referencing Deku constantly. it was adorable at first, but it has been every. single. conversation.

guys, i want to focus on her personal growth!!! like, girl, tell me about how you’re improving your martial arts! tell me about your new moves!! talk about your family!!! please i just want Uraraka to have non-romantic based conversations with her friends!!! please i’m cryingggg

((important note: please understand that i do find IzuOcha cute. i just think there’s a time and a place for romantic subplot. and it’s only frustrating bc it’s become a reoccurring theme for Uraraka’s character. it’s been the primary topic of most of her conversations since season 3. this isn’t happening with any other character, even Deku. i’m only at season 5, so maybe this will change. it’s just sucks that she’s growing so much, but most of her conversations are only focused on her crush, not her.))

[sapphic-agent]

Ok into the IzuOcha ask: I bet you have come across ships where "this girl deserve better" not sure if you read naruto but sasusaku is canon aka sasuke x sakura. Now, some fans of hers (all of them) say she is a poor thing and deserve better (wont enter here how untrue it is as she got her happy ending, its sasuke who is miserable) and ...I can say Izuocha can be the sasusaku of mha.

Will be canon? Sure.

Will be happy for Izu? NO. Not in canon. Not by Hori.

They had a cute meet. Sure, but it never developed more than that.

1) she calls him deku. Do I know Japanese? No. So I give a pass and maybe deku and dekiru are similar speaking. Ok. The issue here is not that...is how Ochako sees BK calling Izu deku with 100% hostility and ...head empty. Its sus. Its also not cute Izu accept the name deku.

2) she makes no attempt to know him. Grant Izu doesn't either but he does have an excuse as social cues are smth he struggles thanks to 10 years of abuse...amazing how that is smth Hori remembers to give to Izu😒

3) the LN, it paints their relationship so bad. I dont need to point out the obvious.

4) the aftermath of Ixu vs bk. Izu was punished for defending against his abuser, Iida didnt let him see his notes and treated him as a criminal...sure it was to be comical but falls flat as Iida wanted to commited murder (hated he punched Izu) byt Ochako didnt even approach Izu and asks whats up. She also blamed him. "This is a problem of both" and runs with that.

5) Mina and Aoayama have to tell her, and subsequence us, she likes Izu. Otherwise, we wouldn't guess. She made the decision to hide her feelings for Izu...and why? Is not as if she lost a big chance to win money by blushing to Izu.

6) I dont like how the girls in class A1 are taking Ocha's side here in relation to the ship. The movie where Izu meets Melissa...when Izu returns to class A1 the girls seems upset as if he did smth wrong...I find that unfair(I never saw the movie and have 0 desire to do so as BK is there. And sure that scene may have context...)

7) She never even attempt to know Izu. But she is ok in being Toga's blood bank. Togaochako may not be canon and she may have rejected Toga...but the point is not "Ochako wants to kiss Toga" is how Ochako makes no effort for Izu...but we are supposed to see her as this great love interest. In canon, she really isnt. It kills me how she makes 0 effort for Izu...didnt smile when she corned Izu with bk and others...didnt look happy to see him...but is willing to die for Toga. Like....does Izu has a love interest?

8) she called him plain...when she has a plain design. The things she says and does could have land her "mean girl" title

9)"you wont fight quirkless are you?" While I dont subscribe to "quirkless discrimination " as everyone does...I do think it makes sense for only quirked people to be heroes...so with that in mind, Ochako is somewhat saying is ok for Izu to break bones but fight quirkless is wierd? That is intersting to explore but would make her look bad...and by consequence bk and we know who Hori loves.

Not saying Ocha should do anything and everything for Izu...but this story only allows the shallow forms of "love"

Ocha and Izu blushed? Soulmates

Ocha and Izu gifted each other? When is the wedding.

I've answered an IzuOcha asked before so if you wanna take a look at that for more of an insight feel free to.

1. It actually used to irritate me that she called him Deku too BUT someone pointed out to me that Uraraka is from the Mie (?) prefecture and can tend to mix up the pronunciation of "Deku" and "Dekiru" due to her accent. So when she wants to say "Dekiru," it comes out sounding like "Dek'u." This person also said that it gives meaning to their relationship that Izuku decided to keep this name because of this and I actually do somewhat agree. I think Horiloshi's execution of this could have been better (show don't tell Hori), but I don't mind it as much as I used to.

2. I would actually say Uraraka does make a decent attempt to get to know him at least in the beginning. Sure her questions and conversations aren't super deep, but she goes out of her way to make conversation with him and get him to open up. She is only 15/16 too after all so I give her a lot of grace.

3. For my own sanity, I choose to ignore the light novels. If I read them I'll come out disliking 98% of the characters🙂

4. Yes this... Isn't great for either Iida or Uraraka. It actually feels like flat out character regression for Iida (done for a cheap laugh). Uraraka (and all of 1A including All Might and Aizawa) has a kind of warped view on Izuku and Bakugou's relationship. I don't think she's aware that their toxic relationship goes past rivalry, probably because Izuku never says anything bad about Bakugou and doesn't open up. I'm not defending what she says here because it was wrong, but she doesn't have the full story. If she did, her reaction would be very different (she is one of the few characters that will call Bakugou out, even if it isn't as harsh as it should be). I don't even think Horikoshi himself understands the power imbalance between Izuku and Bakugou, so it makes sense that his characters don't either.

5. So Uraraka does this because she doesn't want her feelings to get in the way of becoming a good hero. It's not a bad approach to her character in theory, but Horikoshi's execution of it is horrible (which is true for most of his characters). The problem isn't necessarily that she does this, the problem is a) there was nothing leading up to her having feelings for him past admiration it just... happened, b) there's really no explanation as to how simply having/accepting her feelings would get in the way, and c) it focuses way too much on her avoiding her feelings for Izuku than her actually growing as a hero; in trying to focus her away from Izuku Hori's centering her around him even more. In another author's hands, this could have actually been a decent arc, but oh well.

6. This scene actually isn't too serious. Yaoyorozu and Jirou aren't being malicious to Izuku, they're just teasing him. And they're very nice to Melissa (so is Uraraka) and get along with her well. I don't even think Uraraka was that jealous, maybe a bit envious if anything, and she wasn't upset. The movie doesn't focus on Bakugou too much (unlike that monstrosity of a second movie) so it's not a bad watch. I enjoyed it because we learn more about All Might's time in America and Izuku's friendship with Melissa is super cute🙂

7. I think it's just a different approach to Toga and Izuku as people. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but I am saying approaching saving them in two different ways isn't outlandish. And she did stand up for him against am angry mob so I don't think it's right to say she didn't put in effort.

8. Plain isn't really an insult. True it's not exactly nice, but I wouldn't call it mean. She also had no idea of knowing he would see that footage.

9. Interesting🤔

[thaeonblade]

Chapter 13 posted.

[irontragedyreview]

While I can’t guarantee that any anti bkdk can or not do anything they say, because something to accept is that there are toxic shippers but also toxic antis. However, I think that at this point the majority of us antis have chosen the path of plain indifference, we don't care, it’s more usually fun to see some of their analyzes because honestly some of them are very good, I’m not going to deny that I have read them and if it weren't for the fact that I’m up to date with the original material (the manga not light novels or CD dramas), I could even believe that there is a possibility, then you have analyzes that go completely off the point and is a wild misinterpretation of the characters or even the story itself.

On the other hand, my sns shipper heart will add seeing the comments that it’s true that there are shippers who misinterpret and mischaracterize Sasuke and Naruto but Naruto manga has given us 699 chapters of relationship building, and the author himself has he has defenestrated the canonical couples at every opportunity he has had, for example by not getting involved in the The Last project, which kills Naruto character by telling that he’s stupid for not falling in love with someone for the simple fact that Hinata always loved him and who doesn't know the difference between love and food, considering that Naruto was able to understand Haku's love for Zabuza just by seeing him. On the other hand, with Sasuke leaving for 12 years, never seeing his daughter, raising doubts about the maternity of the canonical couple and possible cheat, etc. done by Kishimoto himself, etc. That is to say, in Naruto, the mangaka himself doesn't give a shit about his canonical couples when he has shown that he can write the most cliché heterosexual romance if he wanted to, that is a huge difference with Horikoshi who actually built a solid relationship with Izuocha and who I can understand why they could be a couple in the end, although I hope we don't have a next generation with Izuku and Uraraka as negligent parents, etc. There are already many examples of sequels where daddy issues are the main plot.

Yeah sure honey, as if anti bkdks have nothing better to do with their lifes then to pretend to be bkdk shippers. 🤣

Most people dont spend 24/7 on social media and post 50+ posts about their otp ship every single day like you do! And not every bkdk shipper is as annoying, toxic and plain delusional like you either! 🤦🏼‍♀️