#It was only mentioned in VM vs M9 Tumblr posts

[captainofthetidesbreath]

Fjord with Sculptor of Flesh, PROPERLY canon finally!!

[czechforrain]

Critical Role Episode 103: Are the Mighty Nein Gutless Cowards? The differences between them and the more Brash Vox Machina.

So we have just came off another episode where the mighty nein spent a lot of time deliberating and possibly trying to delay their fight with Vokodo. Trying to stack the deck as much as possible and get 3 tribal guardians, a few werebears and even a lesser diety to fight alongside them while also finding out if there was any weaknesses or exploitable backsides to this supposed god. 

And of course this leads to the same recurring topics being brought up again.

“The mighty nein are cowards.”

“ They try to run away from fights whenever possible.”

“They underestimate the hell out of themselves.”

“They draw out conflicts as long as possible going over several plans instead of making decisive moves and sticking towards them.” 

And the common reasoning for their super cautious play-style is the death of Mollymauk Tealeaf. After Fjord, Jester and Yasha got captured by the Iron Shepards, the rest of the Mighty Nein set out to ambush the party and this ended in disaster. Matt gave them several hints that this battle would be a lot tougher than they first thought but everyone was 100% in on ambush and combined with some less than stellar tactical decisions and bad rolls, we had our first campaign death 26 Chapters into the campaign. 

And then again in Episode 69 we had the Mighty Nein defeat Obann but after he died, the laughing hand did a number on everybody and fjord almost died after being grabbed by the laughing hand and everyone was beat to complete crap. 

Now these factors absolutely play a part on team morale and it informs their decisions to be more careful but I’d argue the real difference between the campaign so far is stakes. More specifically the consequences of running and hiding vs standing and fighting. 

THE STAKES

In comparison to Vox Machina, the mighty nein are less traditional heroes. Since the start of the campaign they balanced a decent relationship with the Authorities and Power structures with being involved in illegal practices such as helping the knights of requital to elevate one of their leaders to public office, working for a crime boss, providing Vigilante Justice and later stealing a boat and becoming pirates. Then after starting their quest to save Nott’s Husband they switched that balancing act to a more traditional play both sides mentality. The only difference of course being that there endgame was altruistic. They wanted to stop a war and they had to convince each side that they wanted something mutually beneficial while not appearing too friendly to the other side. 

Compare this to Vox Machina’s Four Major Arcs

K’varn

Threat: The influence of an ancient artifact is starting to get closer to reaching the surface and if unchecked could lead to major problems for the city. 

Personal: Beloved NPC Allura Vysoren’s friend (at the time) has basically been taken captive and they need to save her before she dies and she won’t go back until her dream quest journey is complete. 

Briarwoods

Threat: The Briarwoods sent gaseous assassins to kill their hostage chauffeur revealing that their influence could still reach the M9.  King Uriel had placed them under house arrest / city arrest while under investigation and their freedom was curtailed until they remove the charm on him by presumably killing the briarwoods.

Personal: The villains killed Percy’s family and took control of is city and home. Percy’s family is hinted to be alive in some manner and the reputation of the team is tarnished.

Chroma Conclave

Threat: Four Ancient Dragons controlling the continent of Tal’dorei and crushing anyone who would dare to threaten their newly seized dominion. Their current home is in the backyard of the leader of this conclave and their friend’s newly liberated hometown is also under threat. 

Personal: The head of the villains killed Vax and Vex’s parents. Tiberious was later killed by the threat and the instrumental figure in crafting the alliance betrayed and caused the death of many of the Fire Ashari.

Vecna

Threat: An old mage from the days of the age of Arcanum is planning to complete a seeding ritual to make himself a god and take over the world. 

Personal: Scanlan implores them that this is a very important quest and essentially returns for this reason. Lady Briarwood is serving the Whispered one which puts all of VM at unease. Vecna personally disintegrates one of Vox Machina. 

These arcs, along with Keyleth’s overall quest being something that she had to face despite her constant self doubts and idealism anxiety, were stuff that Vox Machina couldn’t run from. They couldn’t ignore the issues because the threats were present, personal and there were negative consequences to ignoring the call to action. 

Now compare that to the Mighty Nein who exist in a grayer campaign where the right path isn’t always easily identifiable and every action might have negative and positive consequences. 

And paralleling their journey it’s easy to see the differences.

Episodes 1-33

Episode 1-4 had them as complete strangers mainly fighting Kyrie, the devil toad to prove their innocence after the circus gets blamed for the results of the show. Then they take a job to rescue missing townsfolk from gnollish marauders. Once they arrive in Zadash, they sympathize with the Knights of Requital who desperately wants to replace High-Richter Prucine with their leader Dolan and they offer to help for some coin but the entire plan was supposed to be a series of heists, only turning violent when said the High-Richter returned and Ulog in a moment of rage killed himself and her in one go. 

They then end up whilst trying to get heat off themselves for the murder working for the gentleman who gives them tasks which he promises a healthy amount of coin for that mainly involve getting rid of monsters that are getting in the way of his business and also removing a gang / providing safe passage for one of his associates. Then unexpectedly Molly dies, and the group mentions running would be the smart thing to do but because Fjord, Jester and Yasha are still enslaved the group presses on with a strong resolve to save their missing comrades and avenge molly. 

Episodes 34-49

After this they take a trip to Jester’s hometown and they help her mom out by attacking and mutilating a customer of hers who is acting abusive and controlling in regards to his companionship with her. They end up stealing a boat because they’re not sure how to explain what happened to the guards because they essentially got into a fight for no reason. 

They sail around on fjord’s quest with Avantika for a while despite being quite unnerved by her fanaticism and her end goal to free Uka’Toa. They try to get dirt on her in which to frame her and succeed but her companion has locate object and just before the mighty nein are exposed Caleb recognizes this is a crucial moment and launches the first attack. 

They do run against a young blue dragon but it’s a situation where they all don’t have any need to beat the blue dragon and are just trying to get out. But regardless this is the first winnable encounter they actually end up running from.

Now it’s not unusual up until this point but so far most of their encounters have been quests, stuff that they are paid to get rid of, they’re told about this thing and they kill it for the most part. They’ve felt pretty generally confident about whatever springs up

Episodes 50-87

Now once we get into the Angel’s Irons section things start to change. They go into Xhorhas close up the portal and retrieve evidence to earn a favor from the bright queen before that turns into them being closely watched heroes. They smartly negotiate a truce with the giants instead of wiping them out as they were originally paid to do and free their home of the demonic incursions. They fight Obann the first time and chase after him as they try to get to the bottom of this portals business and eventually things end in heartbreaking failure. 

This kicks off to the Ancient White Dragon Iceflex heist. In this situation them not running would be catastrophic and  it’s completely understandable that they ran. However this episode did get some criticism because they had a long repeating running gag with Yeti’s undercover business that led to about an hour of planning and really slowed down the pace. 

Then a few episodes later they scry on yasha and receive knowledge that she is going to the Lotusden Greenwood to find the heart of the inevitable end. After a stroke of luck with charm person where they take the hand out of the situation they sneak up on Obann and fail at stopping him with Nott’s mage hand. This reluctance to fight here seemed a bit off to people because they already killed Obann but it’s understandable if they didnt want to engage directly though this could be classified as a winnable fight if they played their cards right. There was a hostile tree but incite greed kind of removed it from the fight vs Obann.

We then go to the Happy Fun Ball where a Golem like entity essentially hunts them through many rooms until they get to a point where they can no longer run from it and use machinery in the workshop to help destroy the thing. They probably could have kept running but the continuance of this threat eventually got them so annoyed that they chose to fight it then and there. 

Then we get the whole round 3 vs Obann where to save Yasha, there is no way that they can run away from this fight. When the fight in the cathedral ended, even if the MIX felt fine leaving him alone, Nott got charmed into following them beneath to act as a vessel to break the seal. That and obviously they wanted to give this creep who messed with Yasha what was coming to him and prevent his shenanigans from returning to cause them trouble. 

Episodes 88+

The cupcake moment was brilliant and an excellent subversion of a Hag Fight. Jester bet on herself and for the time being it worked out masterfully giving Veth a free out of her curse. 

Similiarly with Caduceus’ Family they couldn’t just leave the gorgon roam free and not revive his family when they had the chance so they stood their ground and fought it. 

Contrast this with the Dragon Turtle encounter where it’s a threat to them sure but they’re under no obligation to defeat it. Why fight for no good reason and risk death when you can just turn it into a sea slug and bounce?

Why fight Vokodo now when they can greater restoration each other and bring more allies and possibly even the traveler himself to their side? 

The main reason why the Mighty Nein have constantly ran from encounters is that there hasn’t been enough reason for them to stay and fight. When there is a reason they are pretty cautious to not go in under-prepared and thus have moments where they over plan. 

A possible problem that can come from this risk averse approach though just made itself clear in this last episode though. There ship was destroyed because they didn’t defeat the turtle or keep the ship hidden away or sailing where the turtle couldn’t reach it. 

Because they didn’t go straight at Vokodo, either the first time or at a later day from the jump where they had a solid plan they are gonna be down spell slots if they do indeed end up not reaching caduceus in time. If they do end up reaching him in time that might mean they have to burn even more spells and will have to try again some other time. Despite there existing some benefits to playing it safe, there are also negatives and I feel like Matt has been stressing that more and more lately

Vox Machina couldn’t afford to rest when it came to the Briarwoods or the Chroma Conclave and I think if the MIX were in a similiar situation they would also step u to the plate it’s just so far they’ve been generally fine with avoiding dangerous situations when possible but it looks like things may be changing in the future. And when people they care about or places they care about are threatened by such outside sources I think we’ll see a lot of the same gumption from the MIX as we did with Vox Machina. It’s just based on there start as a secret grungy kind of illegal group that preferred to stay out of the limelight and experiences with rushing into trouble that it’s taken them longer then Vox Machina to get to this place.

TLDR; I wouldnt say they are cowards but their experiences when combined with lower stakes if they bail out of fights means that unless they feel like they cannot run away due to personal connections or a sense of duty, they probably will run if the threat looks somewhat fierce. That has helped them some risks but it also can possibly lead to more in the future. But I do feel that the story is moving towards a place where they are gonna have reasons to stand firm and fight and become heroes in their own special way.

[sadwizardgirl]

My Campaign 2 Thoughts

Alrighty folks. We're here. We made it. I’m running on like, 3 hours of sleep and my coffee hasn't kicked in yet so bear with me if I ramble/don't make sense. I’ll take things by character I think? 

Once I finally typed everything I wanted out, I decided to put a keep reading thing. Its a long one I’m so sorry haha. But yeah, click on it if you want to hear someone’s tired ramblings about how much they love the Mighty Nein. Obviously spoilers below... <3

One last thing - I want to say thank you to everyone who I have interacted on here with. I would have never, ever thought that I would live blog Critical Role when I started watching it. And because I have, it makes me happy that I’ve found lots of nice Critters like me to follow, like, reblog, laugh and cry with all at the same time. You guys are really cool, so thanks for letting me be a small part of it all <3 

Molly/Kingsley - 

I’m honestly not fully shocked that we didn’t get Molly back after all that. I think Tal has said that Molly is gone and will stay gone. Maybe this is how Molly was when he first woke up, but we obviously didn’t see that part, and neither did Yasha. So honestly, the only people to know would be the people down at the circus. I’m personally okay with the differences in Kingsley and Molly but I like that Kingsley wanted to call Molly his brother at least and learn about him later on. Remember when Molly said he didn't want to learn who his previous self/selves were? The pirate life for Kingsley is --- interesting haha. I’m not hating it, I can definitely see a Jack Sparrow kind of vibe. I just didn't think Tal would go for a pirate type life for him. Thats all :) 

Cad - 

I’m also not surprised at what Cad chose either. It was interesting to see his whole EMPATHY routine with Trent. Thats been a side of Cad no one has seen. I know I’ve seen some people say that they were sad that after all this adventuring, that Cad would just chose to live at the Blooming Grove and never leave again. But didn't Tal say that Cad would take walks out of there and explore for segments of time? Like 6 months, then a year, then a couple years. I could have sworn he said that and that he would go visit his friends in those spans too. But I could have totally imagined it/took it that way. 

Veth- 

This totally makes sense. I was sad to see her go before the whole Trent thing, I would have loved to see her stand by Calebs side during it but I get it, She missed her family and they would see each other again anyway. I 100% would love if the M9 had a summer camp. Like, I’m just saying. That needs to be a one shot. I don't have much else to say other than I’m glad that this is the ending for Veth and nothing else. 

Yasha- 

Again, I’m super happy with this one. It makes sense that she would want to go see her wife and the whole Stormlord thing???? Fucking awesome. I’m glad that Yasha has finally found peace and love with someone and is content. Thats all I want for Yasha. I’m glad that Kingsley seeks her out to find out about Molly too. 

Beau - 

WOW. Okay. So not only does she help take down Trent but also her dad stuff? Fucking great! I’m so glad that Beau has gotten to this point in her life. Not only has she brought down corrupt people, but also learned to love throughout everything she's been through. I’m sorry, I with my tired brain can think of more good things but I’m just super happy about this. 

Fjord -

For some reason, Fjord’s ending made me cry. I don't know if its because its been awhile since we’ve gotten true Fjord lore stuff where Travis absolutely NAILS the roleplaying or what. But literally as soon as he raised his hand to say hi to Vandran, I started crying. He’s been looking for answers for so long and he finally got them. I think its very on brand that he just sailed out willy nilly knowing what happens but at least Matt was merciful haha. I think That plus his love for Jester and suggesting they find a place was so very sweet and totally them. I’m sort of glad that he left his ending so vague. Because imagine the sea one shots we can have with Fjord going to Darktow or finding Sabien once and for all etc. 

Jester - 

I’m --- I’m torn with Jester. I’m glad that Jester wants to travel more and see the world still and thats what she's doing with Fjord. I think I’m more of torn just because I’m so used to Jester being SO over the top with everything she does (in a good way) but then I guess that means she's maturing and growing up. I’m glad that she left her ending vague as well for the same reasons as Fjord. SIDENOTE: It’ll be interesting to see if any of this leads into the VM vs M9 show off and if there's going to be canon involved or what. 

Caleb - 

I left Caleb for last. Not only because he's been my favorite character all campaign long. But because most of the buzz is coming from his ending. I’ll preface this first --- I’ve never been an outright Essek/Caleb shipper. I’ve loved their moments together and am not against them in any shape or form. I’m just not one of the die hards shippers. Same with Caleb/Astrid/Wulf. 

BUT - With that being said, I’m very happy with Calebs ending. I’ve seen some people that are mad that he didn't do what he set out to do - which was take down the corruption. But Liam said that he sees that aspect of his life as a life long endeavor. So just because he takes up the teaching gig - which I’m so happy with btw; more on that in a bit- doesn't mean he stopped. You can root out the corruption from within and I think Caleb started to realize that was going to be the best way. I’m glad he didn't take the place of Trent. I think things could have gone horribly wrong even if he was at the top. Am I thrilled that Astrid is there? Not particularly no but its better than Trent. Caleb being a teacher makes so much sense. At the beginning of the campaign, Nott was always telling people that Caleb was the one teaching her the magic she had, plus the trading notes with Yussa and Essek over the years. It all leads to him teaching. Finally being the teacher --- the right teacher for the future generations of wizards. He was never going to accomplish that in Trents place. 

Now --- the elephant in the room, Essek. I’m 100% okay with this part of Caleb’s story. I’m glad that he did go back to Aeor and learn what he could. I think its what Essek said. That he wouldn't change his past because it led him to that moment with Caleb, but then still offered to help Caleb if thats what he wanted to do for himself. I’m happy that Caleb finally let go of the part of his past that kept his guilt so present. He’ll always remember his parents and what he did, but he's allowing himself to walk through that door and to start finally healing. Let me tell you how much I ugly cried when we finally heard what his plan had been all these years AND what that second book was that he never told us about. Liam O’Brien you poetic son of a bitch I love you so much. But damn did I ugly cry literally during that whole time. Okay sorry, now Essek. I think them realizing the age differences, being in the relationship for however long they were but then remained friends is so very much like both of them. They are both logical people. To me this makes so much sense. I think I’m in the minority here but it does. Essek will outlive the rest of the M9 so of course they realized eventually there was going to be this elephant in the room when Caleb grew old. I’d like to think Caleb wouldn't want the extra heartbreak on Essek when Caleb eventually dies, then the rest of Essek’s friends die on top of that. Liam said that this campaign, romance in any shape or form was not a priority and I think also that had a part to do with it. I’m glad Caleb just didn’t be alone for the rest of his life and only teaching. I’m glad he reached out to Essek and did that stuff, and then taught Luc. It’s far from the sad wizard boy who was ready to leave the M9 at a moments notice to be alone. 

Sorry for the rambling and VERY LONG post. oh my god I’m so sorry but it just kept coming. haha I’m very sad to see the Mighty Nein go. This campaign was the reason I got into D&D and where I fell in love with it. I fell in love with these nerdy ass voice actors and their characters. BUT it makes me excited for campaign 3 and the future of Critical Role. 

SIDENOTE: WHAT THOUGHTS DO YOU GUYS HAVE ON THE PROJECT THEYRE GOING TO ANNOUNCE NEXT WEEK HUH? I’m glad they mentioned that they aren't ready for Campaign 3 just yet, but Marisha made it at least seem that its on the horizon. I’m sure they want to take the break they deserve and have time to transition from their M9 characters to their new ones. so yeah anyway 

Thank you, Mighty Nein. Long may you all reign. 

[critical-ramblings]

We still have no timeline for the VM x M9 one shot (possibly will be announced tomorrow) but! It’s Rampant Speculation time! Who do you want to see playing their c1 character, vs who definitely needs to be on Wildemount time?

Liam: I mean....this one’s pretty obvious. I almost feel bad for starting here. But Caleb’s Teleportation Circle may be key in setting up Plot Shenanigans!

Taliesin: People are talking about Whitestone being the key location the Nein visit on Tal’dorei, in which case Percy would also be a key player. BUT even if we don’t limit ourselves to the town that is plot-important to both campaigns, I still want to see Percy vs Beau in full snarking form. ESPECIALLY a Percy who’s such a dad, who has grown into an Authority Figure and thus trips ALL of Beau’s wires.

(I promise I do love Caduceus, and I feel like we might need some of that Caduceus-level chill if this goes about as well as super-hero teamups usually do)

Marisha: speaking of Beau...I honestly would love to see either Beau or Keyleth, but because Beau stands the best chance of actually having heard of VM, and I can literally picture her staring them down saying, “They saved the world, or whatever” I think my vote is on Beau.

(But! Since Keyleth is Vox Machina’s quick-travel similar to how Caleb is the Nein’s, having Keyleth there opens up new possibilities for locations.)

Travis: This one’s actually really tough. I mean, Grog is just so great. But Fjord! I love him! I’m voting Grog only so that he can spar with Beau and/or Yasha.

Sam: No offense to Scanlan, whom I do appreciate as a character and a party member... but I’m a Nott fan all the way. Not only do we avoid any particularly skeevy pick-up lines (you all know it’s true), we also avoid Caleb being forced to attempt murder after he mentions Nott and Scanlan’s immediate reply is, “Goblins?! Ew.”

(Also picture: Nott, trying to steal something small from Vex, whose passive perception ended up being something like 25)

Laura: Another incredibly difficult choice. Could depend on party dynamics; ie if they go for an even split or let everybody do their own thing. My vote personally is for Jester, because sheer joy and chaos is always the better option. Also, I cannot pass up the opportunity for her to visit the Slayer’s Cake.

Ashley: Is Ashley going to be there? Yes! Actually I don’t know! But I’m going to hope! I would actually really love for Pike and Jester to interact, because I think they’re a lot more alike than they look at first glance, and I think Pike would be able to relate to Jester’s struggle for the Traveller to be seen as more legitimate after Pike’s whole subplot in Vasselheim.

So yeah, that’s my hope for the Vox Machina x Mighty Nein oneshot! Four M9 members to 3 VM, but that’s what happens when you have an uneven number of party members. Also I want to reiterate that I will be thrilled with however they do this, this is the oneshot I am MOST EXCITED ABOUT from the kickstarter.