#It seems you have obtained a treat and not a twink

[every-character-ever-poll]

twink or treat

Your blorbo is Nikki from Swapdoodle! Happy Halloween!

[pumpkinpaix]

It was only when starting MDZS that I came across the terms “seme” and “uke.” To me these categories seemed too rigid and simplistic compared to actual gay dynamics I have observed. I wanted to ask whether such categorisation is truly reflected in the way gay Chinese people behave or is it just a stereotype?

okay so -- there’s a lot to unpack here. I’ve been sitting on this ask for months at this point but let’s give it a shot. to forewarn you, I found this ask really upsetting for a number of reasons, and I am. really kind of at the end of my patience with this fandom, so this is going to be harsh. please bear with me if you are in a space to do so.

so. seme and uke are japanese terms that come with their own genre conventions and such, even though they roughly mean top and bottom. you can read a little bit about it here under the “seme and uke” section on the yaoi wikipedia page.

the equivalent chinese terms are 攻 (gong1) and 受 (shou4). you might notice that the hanzi/kanji used are the same as seme and uke because i’m fairly sure the chinese terms were derived from the japanese ones. there’s a lot of cultural crossover in ACGN (anime, comics, games, novels) fandoms.

the use of seme/uke vs gong/shou does matter when it comes to anglophone spaces. because one of the facets of anti-asian racism in anglophone spaces is the way that people treat all (east) asians as interchangeable, the choice of which language to use for which media is important, even if the terms are linguistically equivalent.

it's a small thing, but even just saying gong/shou instead of seme/uke in this ask would have softened the blow a little. all of this information is easily obtained with a quick google search of "seme and uke" and "chinese version of seme and uke" and a little bit of analytical thinking. before you ask a random stranger on the internet to dispense cultural information, please do the minimum of research on your own.

with regards to the actual question:

I know this ask is old so maybe a lot has changed for you anon, but regarding this ask specifically, I’m going to ask you to think very hard about what you’re asking, who you're asking, and why you're asking it next time. for a start, I am not a gay chinese man. i have been very clear that I am abc, and i live and grew up in the states. That's not equivalent to "a chinese person who happens to be fluent in english". we are very culturally distinct, and there is absolutely no way that my background gives me any inherently privileged insight into the lives and culture of gay chinese men in china. why are you asking me to speak for them? why are you asking me to tell you about them? gay chinese men behave like individual humans. i am not your convenient tour guide into all things chinese just because I speak english. moreover, please remember that your experience, like mine, is limited. whatever observed "actual gay dynamics" you're talking about are a product of your specific position, location, age, culture etc. and it would be absurd to extrapolate your observations to generalize how all gay people interact with one another even in your specific culture.

I will be very honest: the tone of this ask evokes purity wank bait because of the wider context of the question. there has been a Lot of discourse surrounding the “roles” in danmei in anglophone fandom that essentially boils down to fujoshi discourse redux, which often has a lot of racist underpinnings and comes from an extremely white, western, misogynist, and identity politics-heavy perspective. i put links and such about fujoshi discourse in this ask if you aren't familiar, but I want you to understand that, regardless of your intent, my initial impression of this question (because of the context of these discussions) was uncomfortably close to "I'm better than those oppressive, uneducated straight chinese women who unrealistically fetishize gay men, right?" I am choosing to believe that this wasn't what you meant, but. to draw an analogy: would you ask me this question about twinks and bears in US gay culture? would you ask me if those labels/roles/categories were representative of the way US gay men behaved? what about top/bottom? if not, then why are you asking me about chinese gay men as if they're a different species?

if you can understand that top/bottom or bear/twink are not representative categorizations (though there are, of course, people who happily fall into them, self-identify as them, label themselves as such etc), why are you holding gong/shou to a higher standard?

I get that we're all in different places re: our cultural knowledge, but just. look, if you're coming to me with a question like this, the least you could do me is the courtesy of ten minutes of googling before you hit me with a racist microaggression right out the gate on a sensitive topic. As I said, I don't think you meant harm, but please try to be more aware in the future, okay?

(please do not dogpile anon in the notes, it's not constructive, thanks)

if you are curious about the lives of queer folk in china, there is plenty of interesting information out there in english as well. here's an article to get you started.

[melodiouswhite]

Classic literature vine compilation - others, pt. 02

Victor Frankenstein: I'm not going to conversate with you. I'm not going to invest time-

Frankenstein's Creature: I think it's "converse".

Victor: Huh?

Creature: Just say "talk".

---

Victor Frankenstein: Everytime I go out there, I feel I do my best, but they don't!

Dr. Henry Jekyll: Let me ask you a very fair question: What do you do successfully?

Dr. Jekyll: Quickly.

Victor: …

---

Dr. Faust: Boys, what do you want to eat?

Edward Hyde: ThE SoUlS oF tHe InNoCeNt.

Frankenstein's Creature: A bagel.

Hyde: NO!!!

Creature: Two bagels.

---

Victor Frankenstein: Dr. Jekyll, are you talking to yourself?

Dr. Henry Jekyll: *sighs* Yes, it's the only way I can have an intelligent conversation.

Victor: … :(

---

Dr. Henry Jekyll: You overrated twink!

Victor Frankenstein: I'm not a twink! I'm a twunk!

Dr. Faust: *off-screen* OH MY GOD, YOU GUYS, DID YOU HEAR THAT?! THE SQUIRT THINKS HE'S A TWUNK!!!

*laughter in the background*

Dr. Jekyll: *grins* You were saying?

Victor: … I hate you all.

---

Victor Frankenstein: I did a bad thing.

Dr. Faust: Does it affect me in any way?

Victor: … No?

Dr. Faust: ThEn SuFfEr In SiLeNcE.

---

*Victor Frankenstein, Edward Hyde and Dr. Faust, in prison for alleged male prostitution.*

Victor: Nicolas! Thank God, you're here!

Nicolas Flamel: Arrested for male prostitution, I can't believe it!

Dr. Faust: Nicolas, we're innocent!

Nicolas Flamel: I know that, I can't believe those dumb Bobbies would think anyone would pay money to sleep with you!

Hyde: Oh, actually-

Victor & Dr. Faust: *cover his mouth* Shhhh!

---

Dr. Faust in 1541: So I succeeded in making myself immortal, but I can't let anyone know, because they're already hunting me down like a heretic, so I'll blow up a hotel and fake my death.

People, after finding a grievously mutilated flesh Dummie, following the explosion: Oh, the Devil finally collected him!

Dr. Faust, from a hidden spot: … Well, it worked. -_-

---

Dr. Faust, after watching Goethe's play about him: Wtf did I just watch?! This is so wildly inaccurate, I can't even-

---

Dr. Faust: I'll have you know, that I'm a sweet treat!

Nicolas & Perenelle Flamel: …

Dr. Faust: I'm a fucking delight to be around, okay?!

---

Dr. Faust: He, Victor!

Victor Frankenstein: Yeah?

Dr. Faust: Just a teeny question!

Victor: Sure, what is it?

Dr. Faust: I need an assistant. Someone who's intelligent, has a modicum of pragmatism and ISN'T Nicolas.

Victor: *excited* Oh, I'd be happy to-

Dr. Faust: Can I have that homunculus of yours?

Victor: *crestfallen* Oh … sure.

Dr. Faust: YES!!!

---

Frankenstein's Creature: *tells Dr. Faust his story*

Dr. Faust: *inhales slowly*

Dr. Faust, to Victor Frankenstein: Victor … you're one piece of shit.

Victor: Wut.

---

Dr. Faust, to Dr. Henry Jekyll: So you actually finished school and have several doctorates and other degrees in many different fields?

Dr. Jekyll: Yes?

Dr. Faust: You're a rigorous note-taker?

Dr. Jekyll: Yes.

Dr. Faust: And you don't shy away from risks to self to obtain greater knowledge?

Dr. Jekyll: No!

Dr. Faust, to Victor Frankenstein: You're dead to me, kid. Dr. Jekyll is my new scientific partner.

Victor: D:<

Dr. Jekyll: … *overwhelmed* Thank you.

---

Dr. Faust: Bro!

Frankenstein's Creature: *waving a handless arm* Yo!

Dr. Faust: What the fuck?

Frankenstein's Creature: Oh, I didn't tell you, I lost a hand!

Dr. Faust: What do you mean, you just lost a hand?!

---

Victor Frankenstein: Hey, Johann!

Dr. Faust: Hm?

Victor: You seem to be very fascinated in my creature-

Dr. Faust: Well, duh! He's an artificially created human, of course I'm fascinated! Every alchemist would be thrilled to have a real homunculus around!

Victor: But since you like mine so much … why did you never make one yourself?

Dr. Faust: *considers* ... Well, I have thought about it, but the only valid reason for me to make one would be the wish to have a companion, or a friend.

Victor: But you have friends.

Dr. Faust: Exactly. Besides *glares at Victor* Why would I create an artificial life, when I can just adopt a child?

Victor: … You're still sour about what he told you, aren't you?

Dr. Faust: Yes, actually. What exactly did you expect someone composed of rotting flesh, body parts and even muscles taken from different people to look like?!

---

Dr. Faust: *reads his way through Dr. Henry Jekyll's notes* Hmm … interesting. Not bad, I'm impressed.

Dr. Jekyll: *excited* Really?!

Dr. Faust: Really. Your notes are very detailed and make it easy for me to understand what exactly you do. You got a some things wrong about human nature, though.

Dr. Jekyll: *awkwardly* I know … those old notes embarrass me, actually.

Dr. Faust: Well, you know how the saying goes: errare humanum est. And taking notes helps to self-reflect. Besides *grins* you're only fifty years old and you're not Luise either.

Dr. Jekyll: …

Dr. Faust: … I did it again, didn't I?

Dr. Jekyll: Did what?

Dr. Faust: Be condescending. Sorry, I didn't mean to. It just happens sometimes.

Dr. Jekyll: It's fine. ^^

---

Dr. Faust: Okay, so I am Dr. Faust himself, but what about it? I'm not that great, Frankenstein should have realised that by now! So why is he always in my face?!

Perenelle Flamel: Victor? He loves you!

Dr. Faust: Wut.

Perenelle: *sighs* Jean … he has a crush on you.

Dr. Faust: Okay, wtf, wtf, wtf, hell to the no!

Perenelle: What's wrong-

Dr. Faust: Apart from the fact that I'm incapable of being in love? I don't like that kid at all! I've never even treated him well, what the heck!

Perenelle: Jean, calm down!

Dr. Faust: I do not like this! Hm. Looks like I have to be more of an arsehole to him to get rid of his puppy love-

Perenelle: *picks up a broom* I DON'T THINK SO!!!

---

Frankenstein's Creature: Verily I say unto thee: lay thine eyes upon the field in which my fucks are grown. And behold that it is barren. Mood 24/7.

---

Evil scientists: We did some scientific research with this girl-

Victor Frankenstein: You screwed up a perfectly good child, that's what you did! Look at her, she's crippled and traumatised for life!

10yo Luise: Q_Q

---

Dr. Faust: For the first time in my life, I feel over 200!

Nicolas Flamel: You know why that is, mon chér?

Dr. Faust: Why?

Nicolas: *deadpan* Because you're over 400.

---

Victor Frankenstein: Johann, can I borrow your golden-framed glasses, your gold watch and your golden chain?

Dr. Faust: *suspiciously* Are you planning to come back?

---

Dr. Faust, about Victor Frankenstein: Why did I agree to take that brat as my apprentice?

Perenelle Flamel: Because you two 'ad a one-night-stand.

Dr. Faust: …

The Flamels: …

Dr. Faust: *sighs* Why did I ever let that happen?

Nicolas Flamel: Because you two got drunk.

Dr. Faust: Why am I even discussing this with you two?!

The Flamels: *shrug* Beats the 'ell out of us.

---

Victor Frankenstein: I was never once robbed or murdered, when I lived with Elizabeth!

Dr. Faust: … Look, you could just as easily have been murdered, living with Elizabeth!

Frankenstein's Creature: I'm surprised he wasn't murdered BY Elizabeth!

Victor, the Flamels and Dr. Faust: …

---

Victor Frankenstein, to Nicolas Flamel and Dr. Faust: What do you think goes better with my waistcoat? The watch or the chain?

Dr. Faust: The watch.

Nicolas: *shakes his head* An amateur's mistake. Can't you see that the chain of the watch accentuates 'is emaciated posture?

Dr. Faust: Well, that may be, but the silver chain draws attention to his nonexistent shoulders!

Nicolas: Yes, but the watch leads the eye even lower - to that 'uge spare tire! Jutting out over those broad birthing 'ips!

Victor: *deadpan* Why don't I just wear a sign that says: "Too ugly to live"?

Nicolas: Fine. But what are you going to 'ang it from, the chain or the watch?

Victor: NEITHER, I'M GOING TO SPRAY-PAINT IT ON MY HUMP!

---

Victor Frankenstein, to the Flamels: Tell me, why do you have no children?

Nicolas & Perenelle Flamel: *burst into tears*

Dr. Faust: *death-glares at Victor*

Victor: Oh crap, I'm sorry!

---

Dr. Faust: Ooo, they make me so mad, I'm gonna fly to Antarctica and shoot a penguin! *runs off* They're so stupid, they're so stupid!

Victor Frankenstein: *silently contemplates wtf Johann was drinking earlier*

---

Victor Frankenstein: *first time drunk* Hey, betcha I can hit this note? Ü

Frankenstein's Creature: Nonono, please don't-

Victor: *shrieks badly*

Perenelle Flamel's wine glass: *shatters*