#Is this what it feels like to be a shipper?

[porcupine-girl]

While I 100% agree on how things should be, I think you’re forgetting the level of vitriol things like the Ron/Hermione vs Harry/Hermione ship wars inspired nearly 20 years ago. And I mean, the actual term shipping came from the shippers vs the noromos in X-Files, which was not always a sunshine and rainbows friendly rivalry on either side.

The truth is, people like to form tribes. We will do it at the drop of a hat, over the silliest things - witness a summer camp where the camp is randomly divided into blue vs red. And once we have a tribe, and thus outsiders who are not in that tribe, we often get quite defensive of that tribe, and some people will take it to an extreme.

Fandom has never been any different from the rest of humanity. And some portion of us have always framed our tribal membership around whether it will be canon, because people like to be right. What’s different now is that it used to be only het shippers that thought this way, because it was taken as a given that slash ships would never sail. But now slash pairings get to have the same subset het ships always had of people whose investment in the ship hinges on whether it will be canon.

There are still plenty of people having fun with their rarepairs and crackships! There are still plenty of people who, even if their ship is between the two leads, like to keep it completely within fanfic and don’t care if it’s canon! And there are definitely still plenty of people who hope their ship goes canon but feel no ill will toward people who ship something else. All of these things still exist, just as ship wars and toxic shippers existed 20-30 years ago. There’s nothing new under the sun.

What I think is more common now is for new people to happen across fandom and happen to find themselves in spaces where ship wars and harassment are the norm. The challenge is just to show those who are younger or new to fandom that it can be that way, that just because you ship A/B doesn’t mean you need to have any opinion about B/C or the people who ship it. That that’s not all there is out there, and you’ll be much happier if you don’t think that way.

I'm going to say something that will make sense to the Fandom Olds and will probably be slightly controversial to the younger crowds, but I'm going to say it anyways

TPTB becoming increasingly aware of fandom and fanfiction over the past two-ish decades and thus, the spawning of the expectation of your ship going canon has ruined fandom a little bit

I mean, fandom does a great job of ruining itself a lot of the time, but this idea that a ship isn't "real" or "valid" if it isn't canon

or the idea that one ship is superior to the other because one is canon and the other isn't?

it's absolutely bananas

I grew up in an era of fandom where characters didn't even have to be from the same media source to ship them. I mean, do you know how many BtVS/HP crossover fics I read back in the early 2000s???

That shit was never gonna be canon, but we had fun with it, anyways

Like. Yeah, a lot of fanon speculation is bullshit, but it always has been and always will be. You have hundreds and/or thousands of people riffing off each other, the observations and the meta will always be deeper than what TPTB intended, and that's okay! That's what makes it fun!

I just think more people would be a lot happier in their fandom experiences if they realized that fandom is supposed to be an escape instead of a crusade

[asraindarkness]

“omg why are you bt shippers acting like we didn’t have queer rep since day one oh em gee yall just care about bucktommy”

firstly the fact that it comes from the same group that accused oliver of queer baiting for years is rich.

other than that i’ve said it a hundred times and i say it again, this show has queers in it but does not treat them right!!

god forbid josh be more that maddie’s little gay bestie ( the last time he went on a date he got fucking beat up)

henren’s last kiss was apparently in 6.06! remember when karen said something like their marriage doesn’t feel like a marriage but a sisterhood years ago??? their child almost died in front of them but they didn’t even huged!

we are not gonna see michael and david again ( yes bcz of the things that happened in irl but still)

buck is apparently a confused baby bi cuz god forbid if bisexuals know what they want

and tommy is gonna be alone forever (something that is possible the same ending for josh too) cuz gay men will always be alone

so you tell me if only including queer characters like this is really representation or not??

[monimccoythings]

How the other X-Men (97') would react to Logan's crush

I need more X-Men 97's Logan. Mostly Pre-established relationship. Just some rambles about some of the other X-men reacting to your mutual crushes because they are all a big family of busybodies lol.

tag: gender neutral reader (mostly)

You didn't have the best first meeting. You had accidentally drank the last of Logan's beers, and the burning anger in his eyes would take time to forget. You had felt so guilty afterwards that the next day he found a crate of imported beer in his bedroom.

When he first started developing a crush on you, Morph liked to tease him changing into you in different forms of suggestive positions wearing all kind of revealing lingerie, which made him blush. Hard. He tried to act all though pulling his claws out threateningly, but it was difficult to take him seriously when he was as red as a tomato.

He wasn't sure what started that crush, he guessed he started developing it without noticing. Maybe it was your good looks, your kind nature, your bright smile; who knew, but something about you drove him to you like a moth to a flame.

Ar first, Logan would be a bit conflicted due to his deeply rooted feelings for Jean. He felt like he was betraying her in some way, despite Jean being married to Scott. Unbeknowst to him, Jean, is one of the main supporters of his relationship with you and is always hijacking with Storm some way for you two to be together. Once, she got tired of your antics and practically psychically shoved you against him.

Storm is the chillest about it, unlike the overly enthusiastic Jean. She is very patient, she knows you'll end up together one way or another. She just has to wait. She still joins Jeans shenanigans because it's really fun.

Scott is more protective of you in a big brother way. He initially doesn't like that Logan has taken an interest in someone he had always seen as a little sibling. He knows how Logan can get, and how much he had pinned after Jean. He doesn't want him to hurt you, it would take a real genuine proof of his love for you to convince him. And something small wouldn't do, it has to be this big grand selfless gesture for him to actually believe it.

Charles, unlike Scott, thinks that you and Logan are a great match. You seem to bring the best out of each other. You calm Logan's never ending rage and Logan encourages you to be more bold and come out of your shell. You are like two puzzle pieces, you fit perfectly together.

Rogue is constantly teasing you about Logan. She has noticed how he gets more awkward when you're around, how he doesn't snark at you as much as he usually does to the others. If she didn't know better, she'd say he was being shy.

Remy is the one usually trying to give Logan advice on how to properly woo you, which usually goes ignored because of Logan's own pride and refusal to admit he has it deep for you.

Jubilee is a die-hard shipper. She gave you the most ridiculous ship name. Logan hates it. She, Storm, Remy, Rogue and Jean, usually meet up to discuss about you two like a bunch of teens. This is literally them on each meeting:

When you finally stop dancing around each other and start dating, he finds he's unable to keep his hands to himself. Watching you make breakfast, humming to yourself in an oversized T-Shirt and booty shorts that perfectly clinged to every delicious curve of your juicy ass like a second skin, put all of Logan's already thin self-control to test. Missions surveys get really awkward if he's seated next to you, his hand always finds its way to your thigh. Hank joked that he should give him 'the talk', which he took it as well as expected.

Roberto is the one who thinks 'what the hell do they see in him??'. He doesn't get how someone as cultured and kind as yourself would ever get interested in a caveman like Logan. But he keeps his thoughts to himself because he'd rather keep his head on his shoulders.

Logan may not know what started his crush, but he sure as hell knows when he realised he loved you. It wasn't a great sacrifice or something epic as anybody would expect. He just saw you doing the most mundane thing in the world, be it painting your nails, taking care of the garden, or getting to the best part of a book you've been reading. The second he saw that glint in your eyes and that joyful expression, he just knew.

[outrunningthedark]

Oh I for sure think they realized there would be backlash……they just didn’t think it would be aimed at them. They for sure thought Tommy would be getting the bulk of the hate but tbh most people outside of buddie shippers empathize for him and feel sad for him. I’ve seen so many queer men criticizing that you are leaving the gay men who YOU have written longing for community, sad and alone at the end. And then in your post episode interviews you just seem to care about what’s on for the next for Buck. They underestimated how much the general audience loved BuckTommy and Tommy. It seems like they think people only cared about Buck being bi and not the relationship he was in. They completely dropped the ball on this.

I’ve seen so many queer men criticizing that you are leaving the gay men who YOU have written longing for community, sad and alone at the end. This, too!!! Tommy breaking up with Buck didn't just hurt Buck, it hurt Tommy. He walked away from a good thing before Buck could walk away from him. Because that's what he's used to. Being left. Being alone. What bright side is there when BOTH characters are miserable? And when you add in the fact that this was the end of Buck's relationship with another man, something the audience never even thought would happen SEVEN seasons in??? Did ABC underestimate just how well BuckTommy was being received because (obviously) viewers watch for Bathena first??? What??? And, you know, had Buck been the one looking after Tommy in 8x05, or had Tommy NOT accompanied Buck to the cemetery, had Tommy NOT asked for the curse to be lifted for Buck's sake, people WOULD be reflecting on the "signs" even if they did come at the 11th hour. But that's not what happened. So now 9-1-1 is not just dealing with a fan base upset about a break up, they're dealing with a fan base that realizes the show never took the relationship seriously in the first place. #Representation!

[sniksnakthe2ed]

uh, i had a stroke reading this

simply because... no??? being a "proshipper" is exclusively negative (pro -> problematic) and has only to deal with shipping

i get what your trying to say but, just, idk, keep English from getting worse, this would just be like an unobjectively bad definition.

being a proshipper just means “being against online harassment Shipping what others have deemed immoral ships”.

im meh about the message, i dont think that most people ship "problematic" ships because they are "problematic" they do it because its fun and also you bulling someone for doing it wont stop them, it will just stop them from talking about it. not many of those ships exist in rain world though so i dont really feel like i would have a strong opinion on this

ALSO who the hell chose to give the name to "problematic shippers" "proshippers" what the hell, why are they the pros now? have we not heard of gaming culture here???? AND pro is MOST OFTEN an abbreviation to "professional / positive" two EXCLUSIVELY positive words

what the hell yall?

by the way, if a ship disgusts you but you don’t harass people who ship it, you’re a proshipper.

being a proshipper isn’t exclusive to only “enjoying a ship that would have been morally unacceptable in real life”.

being a proshipper just means “being against online harassment”.

you can be a proshipper and be disgusted by some specific ships at the same time, as long as you don’t harass people who enjoy them.

being a proshipper literally just means you know how to scroll past / ignore / mute / block things that make you uncomfortable instead of “attacking people for enjoying these fictional things”.

being a proshipper means being against bullying and harassing people over fictional things because you can separate fiction from reality and you know that how people choose to enjoy fictional things is not your business. that’s all.

[giglio-nero-e-bianco]

I'm not that much into the mouthwashing fandom, but I find it kinda funny that the only JimCurly shippers I've seen at this point always fall in one of these two categories

And honestly, my take on the ship falls exactly in-between

Like, yeah, Jimmy IS an abuser towards Curly now that he can't defend himself, he takes his frustration out on him, he mutilates him, he feeds him his own goddam leg, Curly is a victim of Jimmy

But saying that Curly is 100% innocent here is not quite right, Curly always seemed to forgive what Jimmy did and was a total enabler to his actions, not wanting to take sides when problems came up but subconsciously taking Jimmy's side, as seen when Anya asked for help

Anya told Curly of what he did to her but we never see Curly actually confront Jimmy on what he did, he only tells her "we'll go to him together", ok? You can still talk to him about it by yourself?? and when he does talk to him directly it's more like "sorry that happened, how does that make you feel?"

So JimCurly is kinda like "yeah, you kinda half brought this upon yourself by not stopping the monster before it finished opening it's mouth and now everyone is paying for it, including you"

Don't kill me, this is my own interpretation of the ship 👐

I still prefer Jimmy pretty much dead and the rest of the crew happy and alive, even Curly for that matter

[azaharinflames]

I was just thinking back on a post I recently made on how the first hospital scene in 805 made me think we were good. That they had too good of a thing, of a dynamic, to suddenly stop it in 806.

And that's the thing - previous to the airing of 805, I was nervous about the future of BuckTommy. We had had very little of them in S8, so they could've done whatever they wanted with them in 805. Like many people, I wondered if the hurdles would already appear in 805 and would culminate in 806.

And then 805 happened and I felt very secure. I saw how they treated BT, how well Tommy fit in, and how much they showed he was the exact partner Buck had needed all along. Granted, some of OS's interviews made me a bit nervous, but 805 had them in such a solid and good place that I felt somewhat confident.

And then 806 felt like a punch to the gut. I don't care if they did 805 like that so 806 would hurt more because that's such a cruel decision. Especially towards fans who had been harassed for months by the Buddie shippers, especially to their queer audience who truly needed a win, and now they see some of their representation being taken away.

It's even more cruel because it could've been done so much better. They could've either made it so some tiny cracks we saw in 805, or they could've made it so the break up was over something impossible to reconcile or fix, not - they both love each other but Tommy is terrified of Evan breaking his heart.

I am aware the open ending is intentional. But at the same time, right now it feels cruel and incomplete. They would rather not fully close the door on this, just in case, I know. Or Tim can think it over and decide what to do in 8b.

But everything leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and leaves me with the feeling that I've been played in the absolute worst way.

[highly-flammable]

I still have so many thoughts about this scene.

It’s very interesting how regardless of what you think of Sauron’s motivations here, his emotions are completely genuine. Galadriel is someone who has believed in him, who has pushed him and revitalized him, and that feeling, that high he could chase forever. We see how lonely Sauron as a character is in S2, how he has felt betrayed at the hand of Adar, and how normal people (like Diarmid) don’t do anything for him. It takes someone like Galadriel with her level of power and wisdom, and that hint of darkness, to finally feel like he is not alone. That he has somehow been made better.

At the same time, you have to wonder why this is the moment that he chose to open up to Galadriel like this. In the scene right before, he seemed almost calculating as he called her name and stopped her from killing Adar. I, for one, am averse to having too much of a charitable opinion of this guy. To me, part of the beauty of this character in TROP is that he says and does many things that come from an emotionally honest place, but they end up serving his goals in little ways.

As I see it, both things are true: he could genuinely feel a connection to her and felt like communicating it (you can almost feel the words spilling out of him), and he also saw how this moment was absolutely ripe for Galadriel to know they were firm friends and therefore get bound to him. Their fight was seemingly over and he knew she was going to have to leave soon. He had to give her a reason to still have him around, and here he tries to do that. Galadriel is someone who has spent centuries looking for him so that she could destroy him, and this is when he sees that opening where he could get through to her and somehow make her feel that they did not have to be enemies. Sauron’s good at choosing the moments for planting seeds which will bear fruit later, and we will indeed see him referring to this interaction multiple times in the future.

Sidenote: Charlie Vickers has very soulful, expressive eyes.

Moving on to what I personally find even more interesting: Galadriel’s feelings. Morfydd once mentioned in an interview that when Galadriel meets Halbrand, she is desperate to feel anything other than grief. She has been drowning in it for centuries, and when Sauron pulls her out of the ocean in the middle of the tempest, their resurfacing is symbolic of a rebirth. As brash and headstrong and disrespectful as she finds Halbrand, she enjoys his audacity and his wit. She admires that he feels alive and seems to grasp at opportunities. He wakes her up, as much as she does it for him.

But between the two of them, Galadriel is the one still dealing with overwhelming loss. She is mourning so many of her kinsmen, particularly Finrod, who was clearly her guiding light, and also Celeborn. Different shipper camps will have their interpretations of Galadriel and Celeborn’s relationship, but I don’t think it’s up for debate that she had been quietly grieving him. It wasn’t enough to divert her from hunting down Sauron, but the grief itself is clear in 1x07 when she mentions him. Galadriel’s story has been a tapestry of different kinds of loss - the ones that are unexpected and come as a heavy blow like Finrod’s, and the ones where the realization slowly seeps in like poison and eats away at you.

It’s downright painful for her to admit here that she felt something poignant with regard to Halbrand, perhaps simply because she is so afraid of loss again. It must have been ages since she last let someone new in, and this person has rescued her and stood by her (aside from all the playing hard to get) when she was utterly alone. This is the moment where it truly hits her how much he has begun to mean to her, and having gone through what she has, you have to assume she is downright terrified of it, particularly because as per her knowledge, this is a mortal man, with no enhanced lifespan even, his time on middle-earth a mere blink against the ages she has endured and will continue to.

Their relationship has been coded as romantic from the very beginning (I would say right from the moment Sauron first tries to separate from the rest of the castaways in 1x02 and clearly plans to join her). But I don’t believe Galadriel in this scene would ever admit to herself if she felt anything romantic. It would be too much for her, and I don’t believe she is even in the headspace to think about these things . I have to say Morfydd and Charlie are right about one thing: romance alone doesn’t cover whatever they were trying to sell here. For both characters, this is a moment of a tremendous wall breaking down emotionally, and both of them realizing they have met their kindreds. This is the moment that understandably keeps haunting both of them, and I suppose will continue to for multiple reasons.

Sidenote 2: Galadriel’s little shaky breaths and subtly pained expressions are so masterfully done here by Morfydd. You almost feel like you are watching someone’s wounds being slowly, excruciatingly cut open again.

[pseudophan]

nora can i just ask… WHAT was he thinking? how was that lie ever going to work when they were doing everything so publicly in 2009? sure you can delete stuff but he must have known it was still out there anyway right? isn’t it pointless to be like i didn’t watch his videos when he was commenting on the interactive adventures like his life depended on it ?? he was trying to convince people he just happened to be in manchester one day with a friend and he just saw phil ???? when we all saw you counting down the days to meeting each other online like WHAT

https://x.com/pinofdnp/status/1855973085771387187?s=46

tweet link (it's one of the infamous 'we met through a mutual friend' claims)

to be fair to them both, if the phandom wasn't as unhinged as it was (is) they could've gotten away with that lie. kind of. dan and phil are hardly pr experts but this isn't really too crazy a move, like yeah the people who know the truth will always know the truth but if you tell a lie enough times then in theory new fans, and people who just never looked into it, are gonna go with your version of events and not question it. the main issue for dan and phil specifically was that their fanbase was essentially built on and around speculation about their relationship and cataloguing any and all proof of it. new fans and casuals often believed the lie at first just because like, why wouldn't they, but the second they stepped foot into the phandom they obviously discovered the not-so-hidden truth, because you didn't have to be a shipper or be looking for Phan Proof in order to come across it, all you had to do is search dan and phil on literally any website with a prominent phannie presence

to their credit they seemed to realise it wasn't gonna work pretty quickly, they abandoned the 'mutual friend' story almost immediately it feels like. then they went with the 'yeah we met online but we met up to collaborate' angle but i kind of feel like they didn't go too hard on that one, probably because they had finally started to learn that Oh My God Say Less Please Say Less Always Say Less Stop Talking Jesus Christ. like by far the most damning part of the clip in the tweet is dan insisting on being like "a lot of people seem to think-" about the actual truth like girl why would you plant that idea in the heads of those who hadn't heard it before. just say you met through a mutual friend and move on like fbsdhjfbdjksf. also at that point they kinda didn't give a fuck anymore, by the time they gave that infamous editing tips interview in 2015 they had long since abandoned trying to convince anyone they didn't meet because dan was an amazingphil fan and desperately wanted to befriend him because of it. the only part they were trying to hide at that point i would say was the whole y'know, fucking and sucking of it all

this whole reply is way too rambly and idk if it makes sense but i guess my point is IF dan and phil had a more casual core viewerbase (and also didn't give up on the lie immediately. and dan was less blatantly defensive about it) they probably could have made it work in the long run, even with the amount of evidence against it. i would go as far as to say that if not every then at least nearly every single influencer/celebrity/public figure of any kind have readily available information about them out there that most people, even fans of theirs, don't know about literally just because they wouldn't think to search for it. like how often does a Major Scandal break about some celeb and some people in the comments are like yea this has been known since 2004 everyone just stopped talking about it, lmao. not that dnp being gay for each other is a scandal but you know what i mean

basically they started telling that lie just as their popularity skyrocketed and i guess the hope was that the massive influx of new people would allow them to rewrite history, but alas...

[hunter470]

My 9-1-1 RANT

Ok, I don’t normally do these types of posts, but I can’t move on until I get some things out. These are just my thoughts about the latest episodes of 9-1-1 as well as overall comments on the Buck/Tommy relationship. These opinions are mine and are based on the countless hours of TV I’ve watched in my 54 years on this planet, as well as my knowledge of writing and how Hollywood operates. I’m not confirming that any of this is true or are the real intentions of anyone involved with the show. Just my opinions. So, you can agree with me or not. I’m not trying to persuade anyone in any way. Also, I’m not going to get into endless arguments about my opinions but feel free to comment if you want, I just don’t promise I’ll reply. 

Ok, here we go. Sorry it’s so long. Like I said earlier, I just needed to get it out. So many wasted opportunities.

If you think TM cares what the fans want, you’re seriously kidding yourself. If he did, Buddie would have been canon a long time ago. The only thing he cares about is ratings and his vision for the show, which can change at a moment’s notice with no rhyme or reason as we’ve seen. 

Although I loved Buck and Tommy together, I knew the show wouldn’t do their story justice. So, no matter what TM or OS have said, the bi story was only to garner publicity, draw in new viewers, and increase ratings especially with the show moving to a new network. There was no altruistic reason behind it so don’t kid yourself. They knew there was an audience for the story because of all the Buddie shippers. Just remember, it’s called show business, not show friends for a reason.

Do you think OS really cares about bi representation? Based on his latest comments and non-apology it’s obvious he only cares about getting the stories that garner him the most screen time and press. Seriously, read his latest interviews. He’s excited to get to have fun now. So, congrats OS, Buck gets to F around. Just shows how most, if not all, actors are ego driven no matter what they say. Sorry not sorry.

TM has commented that he doesn’t owe anyone anything. In fact, I recall him saying to Buddie fans if they don’t like it, read fanfiction. If that didn’t clue you in, then you weren’t reading the room. Kinda reminds me of another show runner…for those who watched H50 you know who I’m talking about. That’s why I don’t get heavily invested in these shows. I’ll watch but I never expect anything I like to last…especially if it has to do with gay relationships.

It says a lot that the show remained completely silent about the bullying and death threats Lou received just for playing a role he was happy to play. Again, they really didn’t care because they knew he wasn’t going to be there after episode six. What a great message for all the bullies…just keep bullying and you’ll get what you want. 

Again, reread OS’s interviews. He was doing the Hollywood double speak. Says just enough to keep you hooked with hope to get you to watch even when he knew all along it wasn’t lasting. It really was as clear as day if you go back and read what he said. 

Also, if you thought Buck was going to get into a meaningful long-term relationship, then you didn’t watch the video from the You Tuber “Call Me Chato” that TM posted on his Facebook. The video was all about characters and how they should always stay fundamentally the same with minimal development - I’m paraphrasing. However, Buck is the golden retriever, heart so big it gets broken, character who will remain on a hamster wheel and unlucky in love because that’s who he is. If he changes too much it shifts the dynamic, which only happens if the show was ending. 

If you thought the writers would do justice to a bisexual story, then you haven’t been watching the show closely. There’s been minimal Buck/Tommy relationship development on screen. Taylor got more. Viewers were lucky to get crumbs in the limited screen time Buck and Tommy got. Then, a breakup out of left field? One minute Buck is saying Tommy is it for him and he wants him to move in, and then it’s over? If he truly felt deeply for Tommy, why not fight to keep him? Why give up so easily and let him walk away? What’s the point? Also, to end it on a terrible stereotype is yet another clue. Horrible writing and another sign that TM and OS had zero investment in the relationship. The whole break up was rushed and made no sense. Essentially, it was just used to draw people in and to get Buck single and sleeping around again because that’s who he is. I for one won’t care for any of Buck’s future relationships. I mean, why would I when they never last. 

Also, writers that give you a 66-year-old police sergeant and a 10 y/o boy landing a heavily damaged plane on an active freeway in LA with no prior training, and sorry playing video game flight simulators is not training, is some Sharknado level writing, which is not a compliment. Oh, and that whole story was truly the shows “jumping the shark” moment. If you don’t know what the term “jumping the shark” means, look it up and try to tell me I’m wrong. 

Not having Tommy involved in the three part premier episodes, other than a few minutes at a birthday party, was so obvious as to the show’s intent. I mean, the fake captain from Hotshots got more screen time. 

They claim they wanted someone for Buck that was connected to him and the 118 and then you don’t use the character at all. You wanted Buck off the hamster wheel? What a crock! Such a wasted opportunity.

Since it’s been confirmed episode 6 was filmed before 5, Tim’s just playing god with peoples’ feelings and crushing their hearts at this point. I mean, how do you have such a great episode (5) and a wonderful speech by Josh (6) just to break them up? Plus, having Tommy break up after six months? That man was all in, which was obvious in episode 5.

Guess it shouldn’t be a surprise that’s how TM would handle things after that horrible Tarlos breakup. At least on Lone Star we knew Rafa (Carlos) was a main cast member so there was hope. Lou was a guest star so it seems kinda final based on his interviews. Again, what was the point? They could have had Buck's bi revelation be with a random character. So, building up the Buck/Tommy relationship just to take it away was to inflict the most pain. Good job. 

Do I think the show will make Buddie canon? Who knows…one thing I do know is I wouldn’t trust them if they did. Also, even if Tommy somehow returns, I don’t trust TM with anything related to this story. Sure, hope he’s happy with ruining the show for so many people. Again, like another show runner I mentioned in item 4 above. Honestly, I can’t believe the Buddie fans have stayed for so long. That’s commitment, I guess. 

Do I think Lou should go back to 9-1-1? Hell no! He was screwed over by both TM and OS. Prove it to me otherwise. However, it’s up to him and of course, he loves acting so I wouldn’t blame him.

Finally, even though I’ve watched the show since the beginning, it no longer brings me joy. There are too many other TV shows to stick with one I no longer enjoy. So yes, I’m announcing my departure, and I don’t give an F what OS, you, or anyone else thinks about it. Not that any of this matters any way…

[space-blue]

Having digested the first 3 episodes of Arcane 2, I'm ready to say something bold and brave, and I hope I don't get too much hate for it.

Vi is just not a nice person.

In season 1, I feel like I was maybe unfair to the writers by saying that "rushing the romance with an enforcer/1% like Cait" was "flattening" Vi's character. That it was bending her out of shape.

How could a Zaunite as maltreated as Vi so easily turn to someone like Cait?

I was told by shippers it's because Cait is the first to show her kindness in a long time, and I still think that's hogwash. She is fresh out of mega hell prison where enforcers beat her so often they lost track of it. I don't believe any amount of kindness could make you fall for an enforcer within 48h in this context. Not realistically.

But now?

Vi hears Cait dehumanizing Zaunites and doesn't fight back. It takes a few compliments to make her accept an enforcer badge. She's running around gasing the people of the Lanes, making excuses for it, while looking fresh out of a WWII horror movie in that gas mask.

And when the gas mask is off, she's wearing Claggor's goggles... Like, yeesh.

She's clearly blinded by Cait. And that's fine! I used to think it was the flaw of the writers trying to hurry a Caitvi ship along. Now I gotta admit, it looks like Vi just doesn't have strong morals.

She hates enforcers but she'll join them easily. Her wanna-be gf says we use toxic gas that has horrible side effects [cut to horror medical slides] and she says "yeah, it's for the good of the people, sure".

She sees Jinx and accuses her of killing Powder, and says she's tired of making excuses for her.

To WHO, Vi? We don't have you on screen apologizing to anyone for Jinx's actions. I'm sure things were said to Caitlyn, but like, yeesh.

She accuses Jinx of orphaning kids, WHILE WEARING AN ENFORCER UNIFORM, the same worn by the people who orphaned HER.

I give up. The writers knew what they were doing.

A flawed woman who wasn't made a better or more moral one by all the suffering she endured in Stillwater.

Vi is cool, but she's not super loyal, is a bit of a meathead, doesn't have her priorities in orders, leads with her fists and caves easily to her emotions. She's horny for Cait and not very interested in the fate of her community.

Being locked up and beaten didn't make her smarter or kinder. It just made her a better fighter.

It's kind of my bad for assuming that Vi "should be better", logically. If she's written as a human, then she should be flawed and yeah, I guess she fucking is lol

I'm curious to see if she develops some... class consciousness, or some patriotism of some sort, when everyone realises the Noxian offers of protection are a yoke. I'm a lot more curious seeing where she ends now that I've accepted she's cool while also kinda shitty. It's nice that it goes along Cait's spiral into villainy.

[kinardsevan]

So I’m split 50/50 on this at this point. Because we don’t have crystal clear answers on ANYTHING, and there is a part of me that’s like “leaning into the trope actually makes sense for everything else they’ve done with this story”. But then obviously the interviews are so ass backwards, and and and…

Lou’s answers also aren’t crystal. He said he was back at SWAT, which he quite literally is right now, so it’s not like he said it and he went back weeks later to shoot SWAT. His answers about “opportunities” isn’t clear either because working actors by nature, always have opportunities. We have no idea if 911 includes those opportunities (based on my theory of this being a fake out, I mean).

I will say though. When rewatching the breakup from the understanding that Buck is very starry-eyed and “look at you, you magnificent Gay Man”, the breakup is easily understood for me. I vibe with @spectres-fulcrum’s theory. It actually makes a SHIT ton of sense. Further, I’m not gonna lie… if someone told me they wanted to take the next step in a relationship (and that step was moving in together), but I Love You hadn’t even been said… I’d be checking for a fever. It unfortunately comes across as not understanding the seriousness of the suggestion. Like obvs our little shipper hearts were smashed when Tommy was like “not only can I not live with you, but it’s unlikely that I’m the person you’ll choose to stay with”. When you couple the fear with the reasonability of what he’s actually saying, it makes sense.

This is why I’ve said that at its core, if the people writing the story have a brain and didn’t just throw shit at the wall (which will remain to be seen), there has to be a come to Jesus moment about their feelings for one another. Buck has to address whether he actually loves Tommy or if he was just along for the ride because Tommy made everything so easy. (I feel like we as the viewers know they’re in love, but it has to be expressed. And then there needs to be some level of effort in the story where Tommy is pulled into the fold.

I say all that (again) to point out that if this is NOT what the show is doing, and they just split them up because they thought it would make good drama (or some other shitty excuse)… that’s not just dropping the ball. That’s proverbially shitting the bed. And if that’s actually the case… imma see my way out (probably).

So yes, I hold out hope that everything we’ve been told over the past week is to keep us distracted. But I also know that when I reread those same quotes and rewatched the breakup with a clear head (and not from my shipper standpoint), things felt clearer.

In closing…. They did still massively fumble the way they were trying to communicate the issues in the relationship. This was not done well by any stretch of the imagination. But we’ll see what they settle on doing next.

ngl if it turns out that Tommy was coming back all along and that this was all part of the romcom ‘breaking up then making up’ trope i’m gonna be so embarrassed for getting this sad 💀 but that’s what i get for catching up with a series for once ig

[getsuuna]

KNY Fandom so fucking insufferable I'm gonna start behaving like those GiyuShino and SaneKana shippers and go around spreading misinformation and say "no you don't get it SaneGiyuu was implied!!!" /j

because I'd actually have more content to mention without even mischaracterizing them

wanna talk about how they're a two-faced mirror? almost as if they were written to parallel each other and there's so much to talk about on this matter

or, since not everyone in this Fandom can dive into analysis, wanna mention how Shinobu figured Sanemi could've made Giyuu smile by inviting him to eat his fav dish with him? why not ask him directly instead? why Sanemi out of all people?

wanna mention Sanemi's pseudo-obsession on that man? he disliked his ass, but if we go back to analysis, his intolerance to someone feeling superior can be tied to a multitude of factors and one of which is being low-key reminded of himself, and he loathes himself while at the same time he puts on that strong façade. he can't face it though. and he wanted to understand why Giyuu felt that way SO BADLY he went to him for training and tried to speak with him, he wanted a contact, he wanted to understand, he needed Giyuu to speak up but he didn't.

on the other hand don't we wanna talk about Giyuu's perspective? Giyuu never hated him nor did he really feel sad knowing he disliked him, contrary to how he felt towards Obanai. not to mention he even got to be sarcastic towards Sanemi's dumb ass at least twice.

and the iconic ohagi scene? idk about y'all but between the hashira I think that's THE iconic scene, alongside Giyuu and Shinobu beefing and Shinobu almost stabbing him (don't get me wrong platonic GiyuShino has my whole heart)

the first time we saw Giyuu smile in the series is while imagining to befriend Sanemi??? and out of everyone he chose Sanemi? the hashira who is canonically the most difficult to talk with?😭 he only ever smiled either for food, for Sanemi or Tanjiro

oh and let's not talk about how Tanjiro, after getting knocked up, wakes up and the first thing Giyuu says is "yeah Shinazugawa left" ..? or the whole novel chapter in which they end up talking about him (supposedly right after that scene in the manga) and Giyuu cheered up. what

anyways, likewise, the first time Sanemi was seen smiling genuinely outside of his family was with Giyuu. Obanai and especially Masachika were both closer to him, not to mention the most important person in his life, Genya...yet here we are ig?? (after Giyuu he also smiled more in general, the scene of him smiling at Nezuko was one of my fav panels ever so keep in mind I'm taking in consideration the chronological events and not the impact of the scenes per se)

or let's talk about the most important part in their development which is when they fought together.

Sanemi saving him, telling him not to zone out while throwing the sword at him, it made Giyuu realize he's the water hashira, it was the first time Giyuu acknowledged it. Sanemi influenced Giyuu's character positively, and so far Tanjiro was the only other one who managed to. Sanemi saw him as his ally (rightfully so), and hopefully seeing him fight also made him realize he wasn't that much of a conceited guy, he was just like him, as he initially wanted Giyuu to understand (despite the fact it was a miscommunication)

Sanemi teaming up with Giyuu out of everyone, in such an impactful panel.... idk, if it was a straight ship that would've felt like a confession for the Fandom 💀

they impacted each other's character, they were the only two hashira surviving after facing the same war, they faced similar struggles during their lives (but let's not get into analysis, once again...), they could've understood each other better than anyone else would ever have, and they ended up bonding and eating together

that panel was there, in the middle of other panels all portraying important bonds, whether canon romantic bonds or platonic and sibling-like ones (Tanjiro and Nezuko, the Kamaboko squad, the swordsmiths etc.)

if it wasn't important it wouldn't have been there, but the funniest thing is that if either of them was a woman it would've been considered canon since it also included TanKana, ZenNezu and InoAoi🙏🏻

but oh, if we try to name either of these things and more, people will rightfully say "can't they be friends anymore?", which is valid, but I wonder why this doesn't apply to equally fanon straight ships.

a show so peak has so many fans that are so dense😭😭😭

[lulushults]

as a nalu stan through and through its really starting to piss me off now that literally every single couple is getting development BUT nalu.

every single ship is getting constant scenes to show they either are already together, gajevy, and how theyre thriving. or how other ships, jerza and gruvia, are starting to realise their feelings and are slowly becoming more than friends.

nalu has for sure been the ship the fandom has been obsessed with the longest, and on top of that its also one of if not the most desired ship in the entire show, so why is it that we’re living off of small looks between eachother or one saying the others name or vise versa. i understand natsu and lucy are the two characters that are the most dense with their feelings and love in general. but like…cmon.

surely its about time the two of them start to understand how they feel. even just slightly. we havent had any real nalu moments since what? like the beginning of the 100 yrs quest with the hug after natsu loses control.

one of the main reasons i love ft so much is FOR nalu and their relationship. my patience is really starting to grow thinner and thinner every time a new chapter is released or a new arc is finished and every other couple has development while nalu has none.

its clear hiro wants nalu to be his final send off, but can he atleast not begin their development sooner than later. i cant express how disappointed me and half of the nalu fandom will be if they both dont come together until the final chapter EVER of the series while every other couple has moments upon moments under their belt to celebrate once the show is done. while we nalu fans have countless of moments from the main show, and about? 3? from the spin off.

idk i hope im not the only one starting to get really fed up, im happy for jerza, gruvia and even gajevy shippers for seeing their couples finally come together. im a hard gajevy and gruvia shipper myself, it just sucks that atm im having to pretty much survive on only gajevy and gruvia and have to p much act like nalu doesnt exist because..theres literally nothing to give us hope anymore.

not to mention the nalu fandom is DYING out because of this, theres less fanfic, less fanart, less headcannons, less everything because theres nothing for us to hope about anymore. trust me i’ll be heartbroken if nalu doesnt end up becoming real. but its hard to believe it is when hiro is giving little to no attention to them anymore.

i hope im not the only one thinking like this because it realllly sucks🤷‍♀️

[leandra-kinard]

Petty, bitter rant ahead. Maybe not 100% fair (but also not completely inaccurate, imho)

I LOVE how us BT shippers are handling this all (this is not the petty part). And it makes me once more feel kind of smugly proud, especially on contrast to what the BoBs have been doing for the past half year.

What did/do the BoBs do when they are dissatisfied with the storyline? Repetitive, ridiculous, mantra-like one-liners ("Bummy bones!", "Jumpscare!"), insults towards the cast and the characters ("He's ugly").

And when they try to engage with the media a bit more deeply, it's inane babblings about fridge magnets and tinhatting about "Buddie canon, confirmed!" at every turn. It's very reductive, very much crafting a reality around the single-issue point they need to confirm - which kind of nicely fits how the writing of the show itself is reductive and crafts the plot around a few points Tim wants to include, whether it makes sense in a grand scheme or not (it doesn't!).

Us on the other hand?

Some expression of our frustration and disappointment, even sadness, yes. But all of it based on and backed up with actual facts from the narrative itself, or what it technically should have demanded for but didn't follow up with. Instead of throwing tamper tantrums like the worst-behaved toddlers you remember from kindergarten, we have written well-worded criticisms, even essays and analyses on official and unofficial channels.

And while, yes, we need to express our disappointment, our anger and our hurt, most of us are doing something the BoBs were never ready to: we'll stop watching. (Or watch sometime later, more casually, and once we know where the stories are heading). We're not going to posts by Buddie shippers, harassing them over how stupid they are, how ugly and shitty their ship is.

We truly are the smarter, wiser ones, and I think we were too smart and wise for this stupid (and often very lazily, carelessly written) show.

Let the BoBs have this shitshow. We'll have fanon.

[haircoveredwriter]

What positive Carylers are not:

Naive/delusional

Sunshine and rainbow Positive Polly’s who see everything as glass half full people (trust me, that doesn’t describe me in ANY way lol)

Someone who must not have watched the entire series.

Stans for any particular character & pretending certain plot lines didn’t happen, because SHOCKER, 90% don’t like/love all aspects of the storylines.

What they are:

Regular people whom through their own personal experiences and POVs use critical thinking to come to a conclusion about how they see things/what things mean.

Shippers as much as anyone else even though they don’t agree or follow along with a cause.

Individuals who are entitled to have & share their feelings publicly without being told moments later in comments/tags/reshares/anonymous posts how they are wrong. (Don’t her me wrong, healthy debate is great when that is the actual intended purpose)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; not one has to agree on everything and it goes both ways. We should let people have their feeling’s without needing to insert our own. There’s enough toxicity in the world as it is. If you need to bolster your own opinion by putting someone else’s down, was yours really that strong?