#I'm sorry but it's just frustrating to have my community get called misogynistic

[nightmarish-fallen-angel]

hey if literally hundreds of people are interpreting your post a certain way, then maybe you DID imply some things you didn't say. the entire purpose of the post is to complain that there are people who say "transmascs need to unpack their internalized misogyny" and you need to take a step back and realize that isn't a good look no matter how you explain it

I don't believe this is true primarily because the "transandrophobia discourse" that goes against transandrophobia states that the very term/concept means transmascs don't believe transmisogyny exists (which is not true). And the primary people who reblogged that post with the addition everyone is replying to do believe that.

So I struggle to believe that it was taken in good faith.

I did write the post in anger and I wasm't as clear as I would have liked, but I still stand by the argument that constantly singling out the transmasc community as being more prevalent with issues of misogyny or internalized misogyny is wrong.

[thelovelylolly]

Hobie gotta beat a mf up cause they stared being a misogynistic asshole to his girl🙏🏽🙏🏽

Problem?

Summary: You start your dream job as a journalist, only to have a sexist co-worker and your boyfriend won't let that slide. Warnings: a misogynistic man (icky icky), fem! reader (she/her pronouns used), not proof read bc im tired, let me know if i missed anything :) Notes: hobie would NOT let that behavior slide period

You loved your job. It was your dream since middle school to be a journalist at one of the top news companies. It was everything you wanted, and more. You had the freedom to investigate what you wanted, when you wanted. You had control over how your stories looked in the paper and online, and you weren't as censored as other places were. It was perfect, except one thing.

Your co-worker, James, wasn't the most...welcoming to you or your ideas. You preferred stories about everyday people doing good things in your community, or focusing on local and small businesses. He thought that your stories weren't as gripping or enticing as they needed, and told you to try harder.

At first, you thought it was just because you were a new employee. But when his targeted critiques didn't stop, you realized it was something else. He wouldn't say the same things to your male counterparts. He also didn't respect your assistant, a sweet girl who needed a job during college. He treated her like garbage, which pissed you off even more.

You had a meeting with all the journalists to get updated on what everyone was investigating and reporting on. When you stood up and explained what you were doing, a simple piece about a bakery owned by a sweet lady and her girlfriend, James rolled his eyes and leaned over to his buddy to whisper something.

"I'm sorry, James, but I'm talking right now. You whispering is distracting me and getting me off track, I'd appreciate if you'd stop," you said calmly, trying to call him out as well.

He sighed dramatically. "Oh, I'm sorry, sweetheart. Didn't mean to hurt your precious feelings."

You wanted to slap him, but you took a deep breath and went back to what you were talking about.

----

You kicked your door shut behind you and dropped your things next to it. "Hobie, I'm home!"

You walked into your living room where Hobie was on the couch, tuning his guitar. He looked up and smiled, immediately setting his guitar aside and going over to you.

"Hey, love, how was work?" He asked, pressing a kiss to your cheek and giving you a hug.

You grumbled and hid your face in his neck.

"That bad, huh?"

You pulled away from him, pacing up and down the room. "It's my god damn co-worker! He doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut! All he does is criticize me and belittle me, along with the other women in the office, but not with the guys! That sexist piece of shit! It's just...I hate it and I can't do anything with causing a HR nightmare, and I don't wanna lose this job, Hobie. It means so much to me and I…I just can’t lose it.”

You stop and wipe the frustrated tears that had slipped down your cheeks. You look at Hobie and give him a wobbly smile. “‘M sorry, didn’t mean to explode on you like that.”

“Don’t apologize, babe. You’re frustrated, I get it,” he replied, walking over to you and running his hands up and down your arms soothingly. “How ‘bout we order your favorite take out, yeah?”

“And we can watch my favorite movie?”

“Anything you want, love.”

----

On his patrol as Spider-Man, Hobie kept his eye out for your…problematic co-worker. He didn’t know what the guy looked like, but he could figure it out. He swung by your office and took a look inside.

There was only two people left, a man and a woman. He was at his desk, sipping some drink and yelling at the poor woman who was just trying to organize some files. He eyed her like a piece of candy and yelled at her for putting the papers in the wrong place. Then, he stood up and grabbed his things before heading to the door.

Bingo.

Hobie swung down to the front doors of the building and waited for the man to walk out. A few minutes later, the man strolled out on the phone.

“Exactly, Tim. I don’t get why she got hired. She just does some stories with zero…what’s the word, content to them? I don’t know, it’s just a matter of time until she gets hit with reality. She even had the nerve to stand up to me-“

“Pardon me, mate,” Hobie said, catching the man’s attention.

The man froze at the sight of Spider-Man, hanging up the phone. Hobie glanced at his badge and saw his name.

“James, is it? Well, I heard you were giving the women you work with some grief.”

“W-what do you want?” James stuttered.

Hobie started to back him into a corner. “You know how Spider-Man believes in…fairness and what not?”

“Y-yeah?”

“Well, I believe your attitude isn’t very fair to your co-workers.”

“Listen, man, I don’t know what you’ve heard, but I-“

Hobie didn’t let him finish, giving him a shove back to cut him off.

“Consider this your warning, James,” Hobie said in a low tone. “Stay away from my girl, and you won’t see me again.”

With that, he swung away, leaving James shaking like a leaf.

----

The next day, when you got home from work, you immediately went to Hobie. He was in the kitchen, fixing some dinner for the two of you.

“Hey, babe, how was work?” He asked, putting his spoon down and going to you to give you a kiss on the cheek.

“It was…good. James didn’t bother me at all, or any of the girls, actually. It was weird, but I’m not complaining.”

Hobie hummed and went back to his cooking. You tilted your head to the side, confused at his reaction. You hopped up onto the counter next to where he was working.

“Hobie…did you do something?” You asked.

“What? Nah, I don’t even know this guy,” he answered.

"Hm, okay," you said. You hopped off the counter, gave him a kiss on the cheek, and went to get changed.

Hobie smiled to himself, knowing that James wouldn't mess with you anymore.

[chemighoul]

I find being a fan of these two blogs extremely frustrating in these times. Both you and Crane chastise and condemn your readers each time Isley shows up, because we're not interacting with your blog the "right" way. We just don't "get it" when we see the initial scene, and the actual truth gets revealed later, while you tell us to "calm down" as if we should know the whole time that we're overreacting or misinterpreting. We see you unconscious on the floor with no explanation but somehow we're supposed to know this wasn't an attack and then you say WE are the ones overreacting for thinking she's done you harm!

I don't get why it's so hard for you to understand. We don't LIKE her. We like YOU, and each time she shows up, one of you gets injured and/or incarcerated. So of COURSE we're going to act antagonistic toward her! It doesn't take a psychologist to guess that's how these scenarios are going to go.

Then afterward you both get all pissy and lecture us because we're not "doing it right" (i.e. the way you want) when it comes to interacting with her. It all comes off as pretty scummy, like you're purposely setting up scenes so you can insult us with the big reveal at the end, like "Aha, you guys were so dumb for thinking this was an attack (when that's what it looks like) because obviously I was just having a reaction to an injection! Why can't you calm down and just be cool?"

I'm so pissed off that this is how you treat your fans, who obviously care about you, that I'm going to stop following these blogs for a while. I need to go cool off. Ciao.

And now, a word from the writer.

First and foremost, I am sorry to have brought you this aggravation. It's not the intention of the blog to play games like that, and given this response, I understand I haven't made that crystal clear, and hope to make things make sense with a bit of background explanation from this side of the blog.

First and foremost: Ghoul is a scrungly 19 year old runaway from the streets, isekai'd, and under no circumstances is he willing to admit to moments of peril being out of his control. This is the face of a guy built like a dowel rod who is entirely confident he can throw hands with Batman:

More below.

You can't always trust that what he says is a fully accurate picture of his scenario. He's not lying, per se, but he's also not going to post anything he hasn't curated. Such is the way of a grumpy teenager: sometimes his takes are bad and his presentation is trash. This doesn't reflect on the audience at all: this is just standard with fallible DC villains. He's gonna be a grumpy gus, but he wouldn't be responding at all if he didn't care about the people writing him letters, and I wouldn't be drawing all this stuff if I didn't think it was mutually fun.

The problem is that two days after the incident, I got a really gnarly ask about burning down Pamela's garden house, well after Ghoul was confirmed safe, and punctuated by calling her something pretty misogynistic/slut-shamey. Plausible deniability in wordplay aside, it was a wildly excessive response to a ten-hour event, and definitely not something I was going to post directly to respond to, hence his statement to cool it: both for the sake of his own advocacy, and also because he thinks people are being very harsh on what was clearly (in his eyes) not a crisis. He's a lil' stupid, he's a lil thoughtless, and he doesn't always think every side of things through, even though he tries.

On my part, I had a stupidly huge writing project that I needed to focus on over the weekend, so I handed off my tablet to my partner, who writes Jon as well as Pammy, and we agreed it'd be fun to give Jonny a scare and show that his spooky not-son can be trusted to make choices about who he associates with and where he puts his trust. They got to have fun drawing a plotline, I got my writing project done, and there was a learning experience for all of the characters involved concerning communication, trust, and misunderstanding. This is also why I didn't post anything myself until Sunday or so, because my brain was gelatin.

At no point was any of this meant to bait any of you, and I am sorry that it upset you.

We were just trying to give a little thrill, and the reaction was more explosive than anticipated. We're not DC, we're not going to fridge our characters, and we're trying to have fun alongside you while balancing our characters' expressions of their boundaries with the variety of people who write to them. They're not always going to be forgiving, they're not always going to be nice, and they are, at the end of the day, villains. This is as nice as they can be when someone's threatening their ally with arson over a misunderstanding while someone else is soliciting fetish material at 9 am.

Their writers, however, do want you to have fun and enjoy the story...so, please understand, it's not anything personal from the writers' desks when the characters are cranky about something.

We're trying to give you a genuine experience, promise.

[limeade-l3sbian]

i am extremely anxious bc on one hand, i never held any hatred for trans ppl/trans women but i do have a brain and so i do know what a male and a female is, and i also know what a lesbian and a gay man is, so i understand that most cis lesbians only want pussy bc the act of sex and sexual attraction is centered around the body and same-sex attraction is a real thing. however, i feel like im being gaslit every time i interact with the average (usually white) queer person bc i have to pretend like i dont know what i know, like i dont have eyes, like homosexuality doesnt exist, like biology isnt real actually, bc if i dont, i’m labeled a bigot. im tired.

i believe that trans ppl deserve to live in peace. however i don’t believe that homosexual cis men and women have to fuck them to validate their identities. and i feel like the average off-line person believes this. i feel like the average person both believes in trans rights and also maintains that homosexual people are same SEX attracted. hell, i have a nonbinary friend that only likes pussy.

idk why i’m ranting in ur inbox. mainly i’m frustrated. im frustrated bc i don’t see gay men being policed the way lesbians are being policed when it comes to how they speak about their attraction. i’ve never heard someone refer to males as ppl with dicks. and i’m frustrated bc i can’t call it misogyny without being accused of victimizing myself as a cis woman. and im even more tired that black women are always used as talking points during these trans debates.

it’s making me upset bc i feel like most trans folks don’t hold these beliefs. i’ve seen a trans man go on reddit and admit that he doesn’t enjoy being in the community bc of these backward beliefs and policing and sometimes predatory behavior, and i’ve seen other trans folks admit that they agree. yet i have to pretend like i don’t see it? like what we call ‘queer theory’ doesn’t have real ideological, misogynistic, and often racist issues? and i can’t call this without being called a terf when i don’t even hate trans women? i just want women to be able to talk about the oppression they face without giving several disclaimers (and yes, this includes cis women bc they still face oppression like hello), and i want black women to stop being used as talking points when we’re real people, and i want everybody to leave lesbians alone…

anyway sorry for going off. i’m drunk and thinking a lot and i feel like this is where i can get my thoughts out without being shot on sight.

No apology needed. I'm just sorry I got to this so late. Talk your shit, girl.

[the1975attheirverybest]

Like I know it's BS most likely, but the hysteria of it all is starting to get to me. Also some of the tiktoks I'm seeing about it are really upsetting. People are being so mean to Matty. I'm just so tired of people thinking he's a bad person and making a judgement call on him with very little proof.

This is gonna be slightly off topic but it reminds me of how Phoebe Bridgers fans treated Conor Oberst from Bright Eyes. They had a fling during the time they had a band together (Better Oblivion Community Center) and then she wrote Moon Song about him later on. Obviously the song isn't too flattering but Phoebe and Conor are STILL FRIENDS WHO WORK TOGETHER. But people actively hate him online for just being in a relationship that failed. It's so frustrating to see someone you look up to get trashed for NO REASON. Like, they call his music garbage and say he's a misogynist and a manipulator.

Anyways sorry for the rant, I'm just a little mad about the situation. I really don't want them to actually be dating because that would put even more attention on Matty, leading to more unjustified outrage.

Much love to Connor Oberst. I don’t want Phoebe Stan’s coming for me so I won’t say much. I WILL say that I’m a massive fan of hers. BUT I also know she’s a messy queen who loves throuples. I think it’s part of what makes her her and I love her. But there are always two sides to every story, lmao.

Yeah, you know what? I’ve been scrolling past any TikTok’s that have the tags #MattyHealy and #TaylorSwift together. Like if I see those two tags, I SCROLL like my life depends on it. Won’t even let the video play or wait to find out if the creator is saying something good or bad. Not interested. The only people who’s opinions on this matter are Taylor and Matty. Other than that…I’m gonna mind my business.

[euniexenoblade]

Yeah, I made up a cutesy dumb term to refer to a community of terfs, Nazis, transphobes, truscum, harassers, and anti-feminists. I make up cutesy dumb terms. I used to call truscum "troobies" cuz it completely defanged their bigotry and it was easier to deprogram the bigotry when you're not calling them "scum." Sorry "believers of transandrophobia" is a bit long. I made up a dumb word, so it's ok to publicly mock me and defend a Nazi? Transandrophobia is a very flawed concept and as a community has a lot of bad actors, to see any criticism of such as worthy of what you've done here sort of proves my point.

I don't call myself a radfem, I do not have radfem ideals. I refused to identify with the term feminist because feminism as an ideology has a big history of racism, homo/transphobia, and ableism - the concept of the liberation of women is not solely owned by feminism. I only donned the feminist identifier recently because of the recent surge of misogyny. Calling me a "new radfem" is beyond ignorant, partly cuz it means you don't *know* me but partly cuz it's a complete misunderstanding of what radfem ideals are. Not to mention a lot of the people you're likely labeling as "new radfem" are not radfems either. Painting trans women as their oppressors (terfs) has been very en vogue. Again, you are likely operating on preconceived notions about people who are multiple years deep into harassment from misogynists and are not replying to their harassers nicely. Do you know what a radfem is? It's not just "be mean to men" or whatever.

I don't know your friends, I've likely never interacted with them, and frankly using your outrage at other people as motivation to do all this just doesn't make me any happier.

"if they'd just leave other trans people alone we'd understand each other better" ok. But. How is this exhibited in your actions today? You could have left me alone, you could have tried to understand me, but you did all this.

Idk how to end this and I guess I don't really care anymore. I'm frustrated that an entire community just lies about me and everyone soaks it up cuz I make one post about bigotry or another criticizing a flawed ideology thought up by people who are actual tangible transmisogynists. But I'm sure saying that just gets me the "hysterical woman" label again. Whatever. I'm done.

Oh my god, this has to be the absolute most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my entire life. The trans guy you're all losing your shit about calling a nazi was probably just from southern America holy shit

[letteredlettered]

Do you have any tips for coping with people making problematic comments on things you have written? I'm currently writing a fic that explores communication problems & societal gender narratives. In this context, the main (cis/het) couple have a nasty fight & there is clear fault on both sides. I've had several people attack the female character in the comment section, saying that she is a complete bitch/piece of shit & her husband should leave her - I'm finding it quite upsetting.

First of all, I’m so sorry this is happening to you. It’s painful to receive comments that aren’t thoughtful about your work or you and that are hateful toward a character that you love and in some way is a part of you.

I do think sometimes people don’t mean to be hateful with comments like this. They’re trying to show that they’re invested. Also, sometimes people read fanfic to reinforce feelings they already have about canon, and they’re not really interested in fics that deviate. Sometimes people don’t even seem to notice that it deviates, which took me a long time to understand. Apparently, so many people are used to reading fics in which Draco Malfoy is a pure flower and Harry Potter is a jerk that they assume that’s the fic I’m writing, when as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I was pretty sure we were all starting on the premise that Draco Malfoy was a bigoted bully who was a party to genocide and Harry Potter is a brave and generous savior.

Knowing that people aren’t really understanding my story or considering what it’s actually trying to say--that they’re just kind of repeating the shipper or fanon or headcanon feelings they want all fics to have--isn’t actually comforting. After all, they’re not thinking about my story. But at the same time, it is somewhat comforting to me to realize that my story probably doesn’t suggest that Draco Malfoy is a pure flower, that they’re bringing that from somewhere else, and that even though they’ve decided to ignore nuance in my story, that doesn’t change what my story is.

So, honestly, my response to these kind of comments is usually to just ignore them. But there are other options:

1) Delete. There is absolutely nothing wrong with deleting a comment.

2) Reply. I got a comment not too long ago that to me was the complete opposite of what I was trying to write about. I have to say it horrified me. My reply went something like, “I’m so glad you’re enjoying this story, and thanks for your comment. I must say I’m very sorry this is the impression you received, as I was trying to convey the exact opposite. As someone who deeply cares about [X], its makes me sad that you believe this story [bashes X]. However, I also deeply believe that readers should feel free to have their own interpretations, and in that sense, what you get from the story is just as valid as what I intended. Thank you again for reading.” The commenter clarified that they didn’t exactly hate X and had meant something a little different, which was a little comforting (as I gotta say, the initial comment was SHOCKING to me), though I’m honestly still disturbed about it.

My reply was very polite (I hope), but it’s also okay to just tell someone how you feel--that you’re frustrated/hurt/upset by their comment. It really depends on whether saying that will make you feel better, and whether you’re willing to deal with that person getting angry or there being a confrontation in your comments. Confrontations are okay. Expressing yourself is good. But if it makes you anxious or upset, it’s also okay to avoid it in this instance. The stakes for honesty are low here--the only thing to be gained by it is making yourself feel better, so if just unloading frustration or rage would make you feel better, eh--go ahead. If it won’t, don’t. (If it’s someone you know and must deal with repeatedly, the stakes for honesty are much higher.)

3) Ignore, but formulate a reply. Sometimes the point of expressing all your feelings isn’t for the sake of honesty--it isn’t so the other person now knows The Truth. Sometimes expressing yourself is important so you can understand how you feel, face it, let yourself feel it, and move through those emotions. Sometimes I find it comforting to just let all my feelings out in a reply without posting the reply. When I express my anger and frustration in a reply, I often feel better by the time I finish the reply. I feel no need to release that anger and frustration onto someone else, because I’ve already released it within myself. Then I just erase my reply and basically forget about the comment.

4) Ignore, but talk to trusted friends. Sometimes a comment is so frustrating or upsetting that I feel kind of at a loss. By sharing the comment with people I know and trust, I can a) once again, express my feelings and allow myself to deal with them, b) receive the comfort and reassurance of my friends, who are going to say nice things about me and my story regardless, c) avoid confrontation and upset with a stranger whose opinion I don’t particularly care about either way.

What I would advise against when it comes to this is mentioning the comment to people you don’t know/trust, which includes semi-public spaces like tumblr/twitter/discord/instagram/etc. This, to me, is the absolute wrong thing to do and can be very ugly and unkind. Sure, you get to express yourself and receive the support of your friends, but there’s always the possibility that people will go troll that commenter or make life difficult for them.

The exception, I would say, is if the offensive comment is offensive in a way that deserves public attention. I personally believe that it can be fine to call public attention to things like racist and misogynist slurs or comments inciting violence towards real people etc. In those cases, I believe that social condemnation can actually be useful, though personally I still believe some care should be taken in how one approaches such a situation.

Anyway, this was a long response, but I’m sorry again you’re dealing with this, and good luck on your story! It sounds like a good fic.

[rpbetter]

I noticed the earlier anon used the word feminist as a negative, when feminism, as it's defined, doesn't really have bias for women, it is about equality, if I'm not mistaken? So any "feminism" that comes with "man hating" is actually not feminism at all, but a messed up radical version of it. Something I think is important to remember, unless my own definitions are wrong? That's how we get scores of people denouncing "feminism" under the impression it's somehow bad for society or hateful. Sorry if this isn't rp related enough. I just notice this shift in definitions happening so much on Tumblr, even in the RPC with muns and muses, and I think that's scary.

No, this is absolutely related enough, and very much important enough! I should have said something, it was my intention, but intention doesn't stand well in the place of actually doing it, does it? Lesson for everyone on not hurrying things out! And I apologize for not having addressed that, I really dropped the ball there.

So, thank you for the opportunity to address it now, Anon!

Your definition is totally correct, yes, but for anyone who wishes to question that, let me put it below:

"belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests" - Miriam-Webster

Feminism is founded upon equality of the sexes, not the elevating of one above the other. That's literally the opposite of equality. Because women have historically been unequal, the movement is about achieving equality for women. Just because it focuses on women, as the unequal sex, does not mean it is only for women, only about women, only for/about women as defined by radicals, or the condemnation of men/those designated as men by radicals.

If you hate men, you're not a feminist.

Tumblr is incredibly bad for shifting definitions to suit. With using "feminism" in this way (unless the intention was to imply "feminism" as in, the false idea of it) I think the issue gets divided in its origin into people who have genuinely radical beliefs and those who want to feel like their beliefs are not radical.

You have people who are totally alright with being radical "feminists," their primary issue with this is that the more obvious signs of them being thus are picked up on and condemned. They have to put their shit out there in a way that doesn't register as being radical, and they do, so long as it isn't something tumblr is really good at recognizing. I don't just mean vaguely "on tumblr," I mean it everywhere on tumblr outside of those groups themselves.

That's great and all that anything is so recognized, but it means that less obvious shit slides through and is embraced, not infrequently in innocuous seeming ways in places like fandom and the RPC - ie: if you write a male muse as an afab mun when you clearly could've picked a female muse, you're perpetuating a problem of male preference. (Also male gaze, lack of female characters in media, female characters who are not as well developed as their male counterparts, and on and on and on, there's an argument for it all with these people.)

When people are willing to accept any external reason for why they feel slighted, they can get behind that kind of narrative. People also tend to not just want to be in a group, they want to be in the right group. A group that is the most vociferous in the correct way is going to be perceived as the right group. They didn't say anything that flagged them for being radical in ways that most of tumblr is going to recognize, so there isn't any reason to not adopt these ideas and speech patterns, right?

Then, you have people who do exactly that. They've either no clue that their behavior is exclusionary "feminism," which isn't fucking feminism, but we can't force them to stop calling it that, or they have some suspicions that what they say and do is...a little icky. If they say "feminism" enough times, that makes it true, riiiight? You can put a good spin on being shitty to male muns and muses and anyone you think might be amab with the things you put out there if you slap on the justification, preferably with Sass and Humor, that it's Feminism...right?

Yeah, no, absolutely not right lol but here we are.

So, tumblr adopts yet another term it honestly has no idea the true meaning of in order to justify, weaponize, vilify, excuse, etc. etc. etc. It's gross, and we should say it. Every time we use an important, real-life term incorrectly, that's actually something legitimately problematic we're doing.

It is scary because, if nothing else, it waters down the meaning. Like in throwing "fascist," "toxic," "gaslighting," "nazi," "ableism," and so on at fucking everything and everyone that one doesn't like or agree with. I genuinely believe that only, like, 20% of the RPC knows what "gaslighting" even is at this point.

At the worst, it means we're less able to recognize everything from true radfems to an abusive relationship.

Somewhere in between, and not to trivialize it, these things have the power of bullying and divisive bullshit in the RPC. What happens when you directly address someone's shitty behavior toward you, or say openly that you do not like it when people do something in RP? Well, you can't toss a grain of rice in the RPC without it hitting someone who is mentally ill or otherwise divergent, so...congratulations, you are now an ableist.

The idea of feminism is twisted and weaponized as well. I see a lot of extremely inappropriate commentary on men that makes the rounds, things that, even if they're not about RP or fandom, make male muns in the community uncomfortable and isolated when they're already a minority in most of the RPC. It is reflected in fandom as well, with the way male characters are viewed and treated being addressed as though it is a strike for feminism to treat men, real and fictional, in ways that women have been subjected to. When anyone takes issue, they're sexist, misogynistic, taking it too seriously, and/or anti-feminist.

When all of that is against the foundation of feminism.

It's not alright, and we should be more aware of the words we're using. They have actual meaning, that meaning is important.

I don't think that the other anon meant it that way, I think they are just, firstly frustrated, secondly, have run into the people in the RPC who pull this kind of thing with the backing of their warped "feminism." So, I don't want that anon to feel like they're being drug or anything, this is just a lesson for all of us to be more careful about what we're saying when we describe situations!

Even if you think you know (especially a particularly "charged" one) a term inside and out, double check it now and then anyway through an impartial source to be certain before you speak. There's no shame in being careful!

(in reference to this response)

[biscuit-and-jam]

It's a bit complicated to respond to someone who uses exlus unironically but I'm just going to try and clear some stuff up, I see how there's room for misunderstandings in some things I said since my English may not be so good, let's try this again.

1. "Allo" is a prefix. A group of letters place before the root of a word. Nothing else. Can be use to denote and differentiate any word. That's just how grammar works. Allosexual and allistic are different words that mean different things (ie. The prefix "UN" UNhappy and UNrealistic are different words that use the same prefix)

2. I do not think that, and nowhere in the point I said I did. It's literally what the prefix allo means, its etymology. (It also applies to allistic)

3 . (I don't agree with the use of "folx" here but the point remains)

Coding has always been part of the gay experience, it's how we survive

4. It's not piggy backing, and we also make fun of it. And I'm sorry to say but yes we do, I'll explain more on point 6

5. That's what I mean with interacting with people outside of this site. A post made by some teen on tumblr hardly encapsulates ace people. No adult ace person I've ever known in real life has ever used these terms or compared themselves to stupid fictional characters

6. I'm not calling you queer personally. This is not a targeted response, I'm only debunking the notions. If you don't use the label that's fine, but you need to understand that every single term gay people use has also been used by bigots as slurs. Since the beginning of time. We are not enemies to each other, cishet people who call us these things are,

6.2. Yes people think it's a womans duty to please men and have babies and that misogynistic but a straight woman will not be threatened with rape to "correct" her based on sexual orientation. It's very different to threaten a woman with rape to have children and threaten a woman with rape to change her sexuality. It affects all gay women. lesbians, bi women and yes, ace women. Also I am a man, not only women get threatened with this.

7. I do not know you, you're right. But again, this is not a targeted post, I am speaking in the general sense. The fact that you source tumblr posts does not give me much to go on either. I was not trying to be condescending and I stated all the points as matter of factly as possible to avoid this

I have been called the Spanish equivalent of the exact same slurs, I have been threatened while doing activism, and so have a colleagues and friends, we're all different labels yet the bigotry from cishets is always the same

I know its difficult to open up to the idea that other people have suffered as well. Especially when you don't know them. Especially when you get your info from tumblr.

But again, in this world, anyone who is not cishet has suffered some form of bigotry, we should stand together as a community. Buying into exclusionist rhetoric only divides us, makes us susceptible to harm and channeling our frustrations against anyone other than our oppressors does not help anyone.

This is not a personal attack, I just want to clarify

I still can’t believe how the ace community stole the a-spec from autistic people (it makes no sense for asexuality to be a spectrum, come on) and coined “allosexual” as a clear copy/paste of the term “allistic”. Live and let live, but asexuals should really stop trying to c&p things from other communities and try to make it their own. You don’t get to cry and be the victim for doing awful shit and being an asshole.

They also stole black rings from gay people protesting marriage inequality, turned a well known example of casual homophobia (the phrase "no homo") into the haha quirky joke phrase "no romo", copy common LGBT jokes but make them unfunny, tried to copy butch and femme with "cupcake and dragon" labels, co-opted the lesbian term stone, literally MADE UP THEIR OWN STEREOTYPES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT OPPRESSED AND DIDN'T GET STEREOTYPES FORCED ON THEM, and co-opted the q slur (which can only be reclaimed by lesbians, gay men, bi people, and trans people). Their entire community is built on shit like this

[thenightling]

Hey, so I can appreciate that fandom discourse can get frustrating, but it does hurt me to see a friend I treasure being called certain things. May I ask that you try and keep it civil? If there's a problem, it's easy to clear it up over messenger. We all have different opinions but hopefully we can still respect each other. I'm sorry to hear about the anons - nobody deserves that. There's Tumblr hit-tracking tools out there which can help you see where they're coming from in future =).

I appreciate your civility and you have the right to know that I strongly suspect your friend was sending me very hateful anonymous messages for days all because I dislike The Dreaming spin-off comics and outside of those anonymous messages her most recent open reply to me was accusing me of being Transphobic, misogynistic, superficial and other hateful terms, among other things.

The evidence is there in her “points.”   The wording used is virtually identical to the hateful anonymous messages attacking me and telling me that I was calling the author “as bad as her oppressors.”   

What your friend and certain others on Tumblr need to grasp is that being Trans doesn’t automatically make someone non-Transphobic.  There are plenty of ways Trans people deal with Transphobia within the Trans specific community.  

There are gate keepers who insist you need to get the surgery to be a true Trans.  You even see Passive-Aggressive behaviors about this when they’re being critical of the character Wanda from Sandman simply because she was afraid of the surgery and therefor (according to these specific hateful elements) “not really Trans.”

You even see it on the DC Wikia page for Echo (the character your friend was defending) by the repeated statements in the wikia page saying “She was really a man before she became a nightmare!” (No, if she was always a woman deep down inside she was always a woman.  That’s the truth of it). 

And the one bit of potential Transphobia in The Dreaming that your friend can’t seem to get her mind around and accept the probability of, while ironically calling me Transphobic, is the fact that The Dreaming, despite being pro-Trans Woman -more or less- (See what I said there about Echo) you will find content that at least one Trans male has been uncomfortable with, and that is Nuala happily going back under a glamour.

The simple fact is someone can be pro Trans Woman while being anti Trans Man.  As weird as that may sound, that mindset does exist.  And I am afraid that may exist in The Dreaming comics.  I could be misreading it but that is how it appears to me.  

There’s actually a lot of apparent misandry in The Dreaming, including how the Corinthian is written, coming off anti-Woman when there was no indication he was like that in the original comics, he just preferred men, as lovers and victims.   And Cain (in the Book of Dreams) using words like “Bitch” in jarring places, where he sounds more like Freddy Krueger than his usual Vincent Price-esque self.  Can you really imagine someone whose vocal patterns and mannerisms were modeled after Vincent Price shouting “Get on, Bitch!” to Nuala?    

I have explained the symbolic significance of Nuala and her glamour, and how I and some others have seen it, as best I can, but your friend not only refused to accept my opinion but harassed me over it.   I compared it to someone willingly going back into the closet and even used non-sexual comparisons- anyone defying their cultural expectations but then conforming to them later “But this time it’s their choice so it’s empowering!”    

I’ll use a religious comparison.  A dissatisfied Catholic finds her true beliefs in Wicca but later the browbeating and the fact that everyone else around her is Catholic gets the better of her, so she goes back to “the fold” and treats the religion that she actually felt at peace with is now “evil.”

But your friend keeps claiming “Nuala is more than her appearance!” making it clear that she refuses to even consider the metaphorical implications.   And it’s rather rude.   Not only that but in her latest bullet points she decided that to dislike Nuala hiding herself under a glamour is “misogynistic”  

And honestly, this was the last straw.   

I had to shut off the Anonymous feature because of messages received,  that use her exact same wording, her exact same attempted defenses of the author, Echo, and Nuala.   And I’ll be perfectly blunt, even if that was a coincidence and somehow those anonymous messages were not her, there aren’t that many people who liked or even heard of The Dreaming comics.  That’s why DC doesn’t sell them in trade paperback form and ignores most of the events of those comics and also why characters like Echo have never appeared outside The Dreaming.  So the probability of it not being your friend greatly diminishes in my mind.  I acknowledge that there is a chance it was not her, but the chance that it was her is too great for me to to be willing to take the chance.  

Rest assured I will not unleash my anger on your friend again for her bullying replies to my opinion but she also needs to learn to be respectful of the opinion of others without turning it into self-righteous social accusations (and this has nothing to do with my suspecting the anonymous person is her.  This has to do with her final open reply to me).   For this reason I have blocked her.  

[the-secret-life-of-bi]

Okay, so now that this has made a couple of rounds, let me address a few things that have come up this week:

First of all, calling me an incel is almost as laughable as it is sad. Sad because you are literally grasping at straws. You see, in order to be involuntary celibate, I would first have to be...celibate. Just because a certain, specific clique of (biphobic, often transphobic) women choose to devalue me for my sexuality and sexual history doesn't mean I'm not getting laid at all??? If you're going to pick at shit I did wrong with this post, at least find something tangible.

That being said, I did see someone say that this is me being homophobic, specifically lesbophobic, by equating lesbianism with being a TERF. While that was never my intention with this post, I can see how it could be interpreted that way, and I wholeheartedly apologize for wording it in a manner where that could be the take away. To be clear, this is about my own experience with self-proclaimed "gold star" wlw who treat me like I have been tainted for having relationships with other genders, specifically cismen. If that's not something you've ever done, then this post isn't about you, and I am sorry if I came across as hostile towards lesbians in general.

I also want to make it clear that I'm not 'shaming' these women for specifically not wanting to kiss/touch/sleep with me, either, though I know that's how it comes across to some of you. It could definitely be presented better on my part, but I could care less if they won't touch me. That's not what the frustration is about.

The point here is that there seems to be a universal experience of bi/pan/etc. women (and some men too, though I can't speak for them) being made to feel like they 'aren't gay enough' for their own community, and in some cases, this sense of unwelcome starts to feel more like unsafety in what is supposed to be a safe space. I've had people tell me that because I am capable of 'straight passing' (lmao, what a double-edged sword that is) that I don't get to be a member of the community because "I don't understand the 'real' discrimination that gay people face", as if I didn't also grow up hiding parts of myself and being told I was broken by the people who loved me.

And I specifically mentioned this niche clique of women because they are the ones who have always made me feel unsafe and unwelcome in these LGBTQ+ spaces. Some of these people have even gone so far as to emphasize that these spaces are "for lgb only, no t or q allowed," and yet they don't even treat bi people with respect. Saying shit like "bisexuals aren't my type" is...literally biphobic. Just like gay women and men, bi women and men come in all kinds of shapes, sizes, colors, creeds, and presentations, so someone who is bisexual could absolutely be your type. I don't know how to explain to you why making assumptions about people based solely on their sexuality is wrong, or why I even have to ffs.

I'm not trying to call people out for whom they are or are not attracted to, but for using their attractions as a method of gatekeeping: who is 'gay enough' for these spaces, and how others are allowed to identify within the community, and if we're allowed to be included in a community at all.

Lastly, TERFs can misgender women all day and devalue women of different sexualities for ever having relations with men, but HEAVEN FORBID you use the word 'bitch' or you're a misogynist.

Was it necessary? No. Could and should I have gone without using that word? Probably. But fuck y'all, I am so angry and so tired, you're gonna have to spare your forgiveness on this one. I reclaimed bitch a long time ago. I know not all of you have, but I have, and this is ultimately my blog. I have no problem discussing your objections to that privately and civilly if you're so inclined (off anon, you cowards), but otherwise, kindly fuck off.

If you identify a bi/pan/etc. woman and you've ever run into a "gold star" lesbian who won't even kiss you because you've fucked a man sometime previous to ever meeting her...

Have you ever noticed that those bitches are almost always also TERFs? Not all TERFs are like this, but pretty much all lesbians who act like this are TERFs. They'll tell you that you hate lesbians all day long because you dare to claim transwomen are women (which...they are), but they'll blatantly devalue a queer woman for ever having been 'tainted' by a man's touch.

But then, I'm a men's rights activist as far as they're concerned, so what do I know, right? 🤣

Anyways, if you're a wlw who has ever once dared to have sexual contact with a man for any reason and have been shunned by other lesbians for it, you're not less valuable and I love you!!! ❤️