#I'm just starting kh3 and idk it's just so different

[baladiumsdrive]

hot take: kingdom hearts dream drop distance - last good KH game

[xekutozoren]

Dumb Doodlepad

idk, ish pretty random ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Some ideas I had in an AU where KH3 wasn't a mess, Sora didn't disappear, and our heroes go on missions in their local team headed by Master Aqua. Lea slept in and Naminé is fixing something behind the scenes. That's the excuse I'm going with for them not being in the group shot. - 3- And Sephiroth's there. Bc this is the Aquaroth AU keke

I had originally planned to do fully coloured pieces for all of these but just lost motivation along the way and wasn't really enjoying it. But I also didn't want to just let them sit there so this is what you get.

This is Kairi admiring byootiful and graceful Master Aqua. Aqua deserves more in-verse recognition in general, the poor thing. Despite Kairi getting pretty much screwed over by the games, she was at least made out to be super important.

I don't know if anyone pointed this out but this was my first reaction to hearing Aqua's theme. I thought Square Enix was gonna do something cool and link the two characters somehow but they didn't even interact so... lost opportunity. Again. I also just realised Roxas is way too tall here. Ah well, he's standing on a rock or something, idk

And finally, the two coloured pieces. Why am I putting them at the very bottom where people are less likely to see if they don't expand the post, you ask? Well, frankly, I don't think it makes much of a difference given my low note counts. :P

Some Ven and Aqua appreciation! Because Ven loves his blueberry mamma and could stand to show it more. There's also very little artwork of the two together so I felt the need to do something about that. I'm imagining him being clingy to her here after she starts to get more attention.

Aaaand my favourite piece!

Xion being a sweetie and wanting to befriend Sephiroth after noticing he's a bit of a loner when Aqua's not present. Her two bodyguards are behind her being dorks.

Thank you for reading and viewing all the way to the end~ \(>w <)

Credits for MMD backgrounds:

edRevolutionnaire

Square Enix & Disney

Vianesta

Hallow

[themattress]

Lots to unpack here, some right and some wrong.

She started out as a damsel character, and was hated by very vocal group in the fanbase.

Which unfortunately was a major contributor to why she got the shaft. Instead of further developing her like his initial intention seemed to be, Nomura decided from the vocal fan reaction that it was more profitable to...well, not. Hence why every game after KH2 sidelined her, and when it was time for her to be spotlighted in KH3 she was derailed and fridged.

The issue with Kairi is that she's just a... nothing sandwich. Kairi is a sweet girl, she likes Sora, she likes to write and makes good luck charms. She's also secretly a princess and therefore has a pure heart and can do nothing wrong. She is a little bit sassy sometimes, but not too much, she cares about her friends and will jump into danger to protect them, but most of the times she is the one who needs to be protected. She's strong, but not too strong, she's sweet and easygoing, and she's boring as hell. In the games at least... She rules in the manga.

Everything you just said describes Kairi from KH2 onward (though sadly even then some of it got lost along the way...she's not sassy or jump-into-danger bold in KH3 anymore). Kairi was in fact an interesting character in the original KH1; the issue was that she was a realistic human character with a realistic human arc, and fans didn't want that. They wanted the animu tropey-ness. And, well, we got more of that for her afterward, but not the good kind.

It's sad to say, but her original characterization is just boring. She doesn't really want anything for herself and she doesn't really have a function in the story except to wait around for the boys to pay attention to her or get kidnapped and need to be rescued.

Again, in KH2. Her function in KH1's story was literally the lynchpin holding it together, not to mention the damsel role was deeper than "kidnapping", she had an interesting and important backstory, and she had her own wants and needs that didn't just amount to "I love Sora".

Fans are creating mods of the games to make Kairi playable

I played one for KH1, and can attest to it being really solid.

Before this they also got Alyson to voice Kairi in the re:Chain of Memories dub in 2008.

Technically, Alyson voiced Namine impersonating Kairi in Re:CoM.

That was the impressive part, how much her delivery matched Meaghan Jette Martin.

These titles were likely smaller budget

And yet shockingly 358/2 Days was able to get Christopher Lee back as DiZ!

Now don't get me wrong: Alyson is amazing and is, as far as I'm concerned, the definitive voice for Xion.

I agree on this. As much as I dislike her Kairi, her Xion is excellent.

The 358/2 days cutscene "movie" is.. not very good.

Same goes for the Re:Coded cutscene movie. They were both pointless.

You got to play as Aqua and it was wonderful and heartbreaking and cool as hell.

It was until Mickey showed up in the story. Then it went to absolute shite.

This is not to shit on Alyson at all, her Kairi is adorable / Alyson ended up doing a lighter, cuter version of Kairi in KH3. And I do enjoy how Kairi sounds in KH3. Like, it's fine, she sounds very adorable, and it's fine.

Is it? Honestly, I find her Kairi to sound obnoxious. She has two modes: monotonously bland yet "sweet", and high-pitched in a way that sounds almost whiny. Different tastes, I guess.

But idk man... it feels... weird. I can't help but feel as though they replaced her voice with a younger sounding one, taking away the strength and maturity of the voice that I loved so much. Effectively infantilizing her. And then of course they proceed to damsel her, fridge her, bring her back to life and put her on the sidelines for the foreseeable future.

EXACTLY. KH3 Kairi feels weaker and less mature than KH1 Kairi was!

Of course, Sora's in the same boat there....

I just wish for a future where Kairi can become a main player in the story, and where she is allowed to grow and mature.

Not happening as long as Nomura's in charge.

Where she isn't used as a carrot to dangle in front of the male lead.

That at least was sensible for KH1's story. KH2 and especially KH3, otoh....

Where she can be a girl who is not just pretty and adorable and easy going and sweet, but a girl who is strong, silly, determined and is willing to fight like hell for the things she cares about.

So basically KH1!Kairi and (manga) KH2!Kairi? Because that description fits them.

IDK, maybe that's too much to ask from a Kingdom Hearts game though, haha.

"Haha"? Why did you turn into Mickey Mouse at the end there? O_O

But more important, IF this most basic plea against misogynistic writing turns out to be "too much to ask from a Kingdom Hearts game", then that honestly raises the question if a Kingdom Hearts game....is even worth your time at all. Personally, I would hope that it's not.

Here's a long post no one asked for, but I gotta get off my chest. Lots of infodumping about Kingdom Hearts and in particular the casting of it's voice talent, so strap in y'all. So something I find very interesting is the way Square/Disney has treated the character of Kairi throughout the years. She started out as a damsel character, and was hated by very vocal group in the fanbase. I myself didn't really care about Kairi any which way, I didn't find her particularly interesting and I could understand the hate for the character like... a little bit? But what's funny to me is how that perception has changed over the years. Maybe there is still a very vocal group of people hating on Kairi on some forum I'm not aware of but I feel like the general consensus on her these days is: That's our girl. We can recognize that she is a victim of bad writing and the damsel trope. She's become a bit of un underdog in my mind. Like, treat her better Square! Come on!

The issue with Kairi is that she's just a... nothing sandwich. Kairi is a sweet girl, she likes Sora, she likes to write and makes good luck charms. She's also secretly a princess and therefore has a pure heart and can do nothing wrong. She is a little bit sassy sometimes, but not too much, she cares about her friends and will jump into danger to protect them, but most of the times she is the one who needs to be protected. She's strong, but not too strong, she's sweet and easygoing, and she's boring as hell. In the games at least... She rules in the manga.

In the game she softly lowers a bottled letter to Sora in the ocean, while in the manga she tosses it in there with all her might.

In the game she sort of runs away when Axel tries to kidnap her but in the manga she THROWS HANDS at one of the nobodies who tries to capture her.

Also later in the story when she is kidnapped by Organization XIII, she actually manages to escape for a bit by wiggling through the bars of her prison cell, and then throws hands at Demyx, who is actually trying to help her out. (the manga takes some liberties with the story, it's great you should really read it if you get the chance)

Shiro Amano actually lets her put up a fight and let her actually try to escape by herself when she's captured. Watching this girl be strong and throw hands without hesitation is so so great. Shiro Amano said: Girls should be allowed to go feral once in a while, as a treat. Also I would be amiss if I didn't mention this moment with Olette:

(In the game, Olette awkwardly and weakly puts up a hand to protect Kairi when Axel shows up in Twilight Town to kidnap her, but is just ignored in the most disrespectful way.)

Anyways, back to Kairi. It's sad to say, but her original characterization is just boring. She doesn't really want anything for herself and she doesn't really have a function in the story except to wait around for the boys to pay attention to her or get kidnapped and need to be rescued. And while in recent years the writers are finally exploring her being a keyblade weilder and having her actively participate in the story, they still just can't resist damseling the poor girl, fridging her, and putting her on the sidelines while Sora and Riku take center stage. It's great to see how the fandom's perception of her has changed over the years, people are seeing how Square has been dropping the ball and are actively rooting for Kairi to get more stuff to do. Fans are creating mods of the games to make Kairi playable, are writing fanfiction exploring role reversals where Kairi is the hero and there are several notible fan comics comics that explore her character in a really interesting way.

Anyways, now to get to the actual thing I wanted to talk about: How she's casted in the English version of the games, and how the inconsistent approach to the casting feels... a little disrespectful. Having a consistent voice for a character is something I, and many others really appreciate. It shows a level of care from the creators to bring a consistent group of actors together to bring life to the world. Now, VA's being replaced in the Kingdom Hearts series is not uncommon. The series is known for casting well known actors, and actor availability and budget are problems for which recasting is the solution. For example: Billy Zane got recast as Ansem by Richard Epcar, Brittany Snow by Meaghan Martin as Namine. And then of course there are Christopher Lee, Wayne Allwine, Leonard Nimoy and Rutger Hauer, who had to be recast because they sadly passed away. (RIP, Kings)

Like, all of that makes sense. So here's the confusing situation with Kairi:

Xion and Kairi share a VA in the JP version. This is an intentional creative decision that ties into the lore of Kingdom Hearts. Risa Uchida has consistently voiced these characters in Japanese for years and does a fabulous job.

Sadly this was not the case in the English version. Hayden Panettiere originated the role of Kairi in English, but they got Alyson Stoner to voice Xion when the character debuted in 358/2 days in 2009, which was originally a DS title. Before this they also got Alyson to voice Kairi in the re:Chain of Memories dub in 2008.

These titles were likely smaller budget, which becomes pretty obvious when you look at the overall quality and presentation of the cutscenes. In Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 the dialogue was recorded in English and the japanese lipsynch animation were redone to match the English dialogue. This was not the case in 358/2 days. The dialogue was recorded to match the japanese lip flaps, and the animation was not altered at all to marry the two together. So availability and budget could have been an issue in getting Hayden Panettiere to record for these games. At the time I also considered the possibility that Hayden simply didn't want to do it anymore. It wouldn't have suprised me, because these things happen. Take Brittany Snow for example, after KH2 she got her big break in the Pitch Perfect films, and probably became too busy to come back as Namine. From 2006-2010 Hayden starred in the popular TV series Heroes, which could have impacted her availability and desire to do KH. And with the lower budget for these projects, and where Hayden was at in her carreer at the time, it could stand to reason that she was simply not interested. I should also mention that in this time period Kairi barely got anything to do. When she did show up it would be for a couple of lines of dialogue. As for Xion, 358/2 days on the DS had around 10 or so voiced cutscenes. So the amount of voice work needed for the character was notably smaller compared to one of the numbered games. So the amount of voice work needed, budget, and availability could all have been factors to why Alyson took over for Hayden during this time.

Now don't get me wrong: Alyson is amazing and is, as far as I'm concerned, the definitive voice for Xion. She originated the role and brought so much to the table. She has a wonderful voice, is a talented actress and we have no choice but to stan.

Before long it became apparent that Alyson replacing Hayden permanently was not on the table. In 2010 Hayden reprised her role as Kairi and took over the role of Xion in the secret ending of Birth By Sleep!

So at this point it seemed that the original creative intention for these characters would be honored. Kairi and Xion should have the same voice actress, for lore reasons, and that actress should be Hayden Panetiere, who originated the role.

And wouldn't you know it, in 2012 Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance comes out for the 3DS. It's another hand held title, but the budget is lit. There is lipsynch animation for voiced cutscenes, and the amount of voiced cutscenes is comparable to KH1, KH2 and BBS. Kairi has a few appearances, but has only one line of dialogue. Same goes for Xion, while she does get a line of dialogue near the end of the game. Hayden came in to record for Kairi and Xion and it really seemed like she would be taking over the roles from Alyson.

So obviously, at this point in time it's all but confirmed that Hayden wants to work on KH, and the creative team were making an effort to consistently bring her back as Kairi and Xion. That would be a tough deal for Alyson though, was she gonna get replaced permanently as Xion? Well wait a second and I'll tell you!

So in 2013 Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix was released. It was the first in a series of HD remasters of the Kingdom Hearts series, and the collection included KH1, KH re:Chain of Memories and around 3 hours of newly made cutscenes retelling the story of the DS game 358/2 days. Days originally featured mostly textbox cutscenes. These scenes were remade from scratch and would feature newly recorded voice acting in Japanese and English. Now I don't need to get into it but... The 358/2 days cutscene "movie" is.. not very good. It's boring to watch through, which I think is to blame entirely for the way they approached it. They remade all the cutscenes true to their original appearance, but forgot that there's no action gameplay to break up hours of dialogue scenes. The pacing is bad, the action is non existent, and what's worse is that it doesn't have adjusted lipsynch animation at all. This means the English voice acting was done to match the japanese lip flaps, resulting in awkward pauses and weird deliveries of lines.

The saving grace was that Alyson Stoner was reprising her role as Xion, recording new dialogue for the cutscenes. They also reused her previously recorded dialogue for the DS cutscenes as well. So... I guess Hayden isn't taking over Xion after all? Or perhaps it was easier to get Alyson to come back, so that they could reuse some of the original voice lines from the DS version? I can't imagine that THAT would've been the deciding factor though, because there weren't that many cutscenes from the DS version that would have to be redubbed should they get Hayden back on board. It's hard to say what the reason for this was.

But I was happy to hear Alyson as Xion in the "definitive" version of the 358/2 days story. She has a pleasant voice, and she portrays Xion beautifully in my opinion.

So then KH HD 2.5 Remix comes out in 2014 and features no new Kairi/Xion content. It does feature the Final Mix version of KH2, originally released exclusively in Japan in 2007. This version had new cutscenes, which were now finally dubbed in English for the HD remaster. What's more is they they also reanimated the lip animation to match the new English voice acting! An interesting thing to mention is that at this time, Meaghan Martin had completely taken over the role of Namine, fully replacing Brittany Snow. They luckily didn't choose to redub Brittany's original lines with Meaghan. But it does result in this funny moment where following Roxas' prologue Namine's voice is suddenly different for a single scene.

Anyways, flash forward to 2017, and the release of Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Remix, which included a brand new title by the name of, and hold on to your wigs for this one....

Kingdom Hearts 0.2 Birth By Sleep -A Fragmentary Passage-

This was the first look at what a next gen Kingdom Hearts title would be like. You got to play as Aqua and it was wonderful and heartbreaking and cool as hell. At the end of this game a cutscene plays where after a decade Kairi finally gets to be involved in the plot again. She is summoned by Master Yen Sid to begin her training as a keyblade weilder. And she is voiced by.... Alyson Stoner??

A few years later KH3 came out, and Alyson Stoner voices both Kairi and Xion in it. She does a great job. But it's all so confusing.

It seemed so clear that the studio's intent was to get Hayden back as Kairi, and potentially Xion as well. And KH3 was the next big budget numbered title in the franchise. The casting for this game was insane, they got the full cast of Frozen to reprise their roles. Idina Mcfreaking Menzel showed up for Kingdom Hearts! What happened to getting Hayden back? I don't get it at all. This is not to shit on Alyson at all, her Kairi is adorable, and I honestly can't imagine anybody but Alyson Stoner playing Xion. Whenever Hayden picked up the role of Xion I was excited to hear her, but it never felt quite right.

But yeah, this whole situation unfolded in the weirdest of ways. For years it seemed they were absulutely set on getting Hayden to voice these characters. Was she not available to come in for KH3? Well, to answer that question:

Apparently, Hayden wasn't even ASKED to reprise Kairi.

This could of course be a situation of her representatives getting the offer from Square/Disney and choosing not to give it to her. Which happens in Hollywood, and sucks. But there's also a very real chance that Square/Disney didn't even bother reaching out and offering it to her.

Seeing how they decided to recast Hayner, Pence and Olette in KH3, even though their actors are still working as VA's and would have likely loved reprise the roles, I'm leaning to the possibility that they simply didn't bother to reach out to Hayden.

Hell, that's what she said herself.

All in all it's an interesting series of events. It's confusing, and a bit saddening as well. I can speculate why it all happened, but who can really be sure what their reason for replacing Hayden were. Perhaps they decided to do it because they found Alyson to be a better fit for the character? I may be reading into things but there's this interview Hayden did for the release of KH2 were she talks about the recording process and how the voice directors would keep telling her to "raise her voice an octave higher and make it sound more princess like." I gotta say the way she said that irks me..... I love the way Kairi's voice sounds in KH2! Hayden has a beautiful voice, it's a bit lower and more mature sounding than your average cutie girl voice. I would have loved to hear that quality in the character moving forward. Alyson ended up doing a lighter, cuter version of Kairi in KH3. And I do enjoy how Kairi sounds in KH3. Like, it's fine, she sounds very adorable, and it's fine.

But idk man... it feels... weird. I can't help but feel as though they replaced her voice with a younger sounding one, taking away the strength and maturity of the voice that I loved so much. Effectively infantelizing her. And then of course they proceed to damsel her, fridge her, bring her back to life and put her on the sidelines for the foreseeable future.

I feel like it all ties together with how the writers see her. She's not really a main character after all, she's not a priority. After years of showing a dedication to keep her voice consistent, it was all just thrown out of the window in the end. It makes me feel like they just didn't care in the end, people would be more upset if Sora or Riku got recast, but they just assumed no one would really care about Kairi. I can't help but care though.

I just wish for a future where Kairi can become a main player in the story, and where she is allowed to grow and mature. Where she isn't used as a carrot to dangle in front of the male lead. Where she isn't kidnapped or killed off as motivation for someone else. Where she can be a girl who is not just pretty and adorable and easy going and sweet, but a girl who is strong, silly, determined and is willing to fight like hell for the things she cares about.

Where she is allowed to interact with the world around her, and discover what her place in it is. Where she can discover what she wants for herself, instead of constantly having to be something for someone else!

IDK, maybe that's too much to ask from a Kingdom Hearts game though, haha.

[nyctospoilers]

You had mentioned in your Scala ad Caelum ask about the debate of whether the ending scene before the credits was happening literally or figuratively and I'm curious as to what your honest take is on that. I'm convinced it was literally happening for a multitude of reasons but I definitely understand those in the "it's symbolic" camp for sure. It's so intentionally vague though, I don't think there's a 100% right answer.

The weird fucking thing with Nomura and some of the cinematic scenes he does is that even if they start off being figurative, they tend to end up literal in the end LOL. Like Deep Dive was supposed to just show off possible ideas for future KH, and now look at it, it’s literally a scene in KH2 and Days haha! So far the only cinematic scene I can think of that never actually happened was the BbS trio pulling Sora, Riku, and Mickey’s keyblades in vanilla KH2′s secret ending.

Nomura does have a better grasp on KH’s future though then he did at the time of KH1 and KH2′s secret endings, so maybe he won’t change his mind this time around.

I think, it’s a weird mixture of both. I think at one point, Sora does fade away while talking to Kairi, maybe it’s just in a different setting right after he saves her. Perhaps it’s like 0.2′s opening of Sora grabbing Aqua’s hand and him actually doing it in KH3. They’re similar shots of course, but one is more abstract, not happening in a particular area (and it’s KH2 sora) while the other is literally happening IN the realm of darkness. So perhaps there will be a time in KH3′s DLC or the next KH game overall that Sora and Kairi are talking, and Sora literally fades away this time.

And another idea that struck me a couple days ago (though i have NO hard evidence for this so take this with a grain of salt, just throwing the idea out there) is that perhaps if Kairi actually did die, and her heart went the Final World, which is a place Sora can actually go to on his own without dying as we know from KH3, it’s possible he went there to retrieve her. But maybe he could only do it if he switched places (a life for a life), or maybe he did abuse the power of waking like Young Xehanort warned him against and his fading is his punishment, idk! But that is a possibility if that scene is more abstract and not as literal.

But in all honesty my mind is completely open for other possibilities, so if you have a post or want to make a post on why you think it’s literally happening i would LOVE to read it!!

[hypaalicious]

1/2so I have few things I wanna say yo. Some kh and versus talk yo if ur up :D when I heard u were a fan of kh that actually REALLY made me so fucking overjoyed lol I mean ya I hadn't played in awhile due to personal reasons, but thanks to the support of some friends I have and playing it together, it really helped me get back into it without that sudden panic and reminder and so I've been played it. And I'm fucking overjoyed :D as for a casual comment on versus and oh, tbh idk if this counts as

2/2 a popular or unpopular opinion, but its possible final fantasy vs xiii might not even be as popular as ffxv if they kept it as it is. Not saying it won’t be popular but just not as. Although it got me thinking. If Versus was suppose to be the darker version of kingdom hearts (minus Disney worlds) and Noct was suppose to be anti hero or villain of his own game opposite of Sora, what i would stil give to see that 😍 idk what ur thoughts r but I thought I’d start a convo or something xD

My kingdom hearts inner fangirl can and will bust an entire nut the moment KH3 finally comes out and anyone who is not on that fandom train is going to completely abandon this blog as a result. I preemptively have no regrets.

As for Versus XIII… idk, I don’t have that many thoughts on it as I never followed that development closely. I wasn’t that into XIII as a FF (the first one was okay - only really fangirled Fang as a character, the second one bored me to death and the third one I never bothered playing because I was meh on FFXIII anything at that point and most possibly broke anyway) so when talk of Versus XIII started floating around I just ignored it. I only started looking into it after I had gotten and played FFXV all the way through and had a newfound appreciation for it (mostly the theories). I think it led me to be able to appreciate FFXV for what it was rather than what people were expecting it to be as a result.

I think Versus would’ve been just as popular as FFXV, but I think it would have garnered a completely different audience and I also don’t think the fandom would be what it is today. Which kinda makes me glad Versus XIII didn’t come around because I love the thirst the FFXV fandom perpetuates, lol!