#I'm highly tempted to think and I do firmly believe

[reginrokkr]

Not me being salty over Alice being the one voicing over Scara’s miscellany 🔪

[floral-poisons]

would the twst characters have kids when they're older?

this is a shower thought post lmao. i was thinking about it. so i'm going to write down who would have kids, separated by house. including the staff members too. these are just my personal opinion so don't take it to heart. we're going with vibes and my limited knowledge. feel free to add anything too. (also excluding ortho for obvious reasons)

NRC STAFF

dire crowley

while i am tempted to say no, i feel like he has a secret kid somewhere? might be a single dad, gives off single dad energy. and he would only have one kid. overall though, i think it's highly unlikely. there's also something suspicious going on with him.

ashton vargas

on one hand, i believe he would only have kids to be extensions of himself (based on gaston's personality). on another hand, i feel like he's satisfied being child-free. no kids to interfere with his routine or his work. but if he did have kids then he'd adopt them into his routine when they're old enough to begin exercising. starts off small and gradually gets bigger as they become older. he would also be a sports dad.

mozus trein

absolutely not. has no kids. he's a single dad to his cat lucius. treats lucius like his own son. and honestly? i would say he's living a great child-free, pet-kid lifestyle.

correction: this man has 2 kids (daughters) canonically so i guess he isn’t living the child-free lifestyle i thought he was. considering he is based off the stepmom in cinderella this makes sense. lucius is probably his surrogate pet-kid.

divus crewel

as much as i would like to believe he would have kids, i think he's child-free. child-free, might have pet-kids. probably not though because he's big into fashion and getting pet hair all over his clothes? not an option. definitely feels more like the gay uncle.

sam

yes, definitely. and he would be amazing at it too. amazing food, good with domestic chores, babies love him. he definitely has the vibe of being a dad. probably one or two kids, maybe three. teaches them how to cook and how to cook with seasoning. definitely has a spouse or is coparenting but he would do amazing as a single dad.

DIASOMNIA

malleus draconia

i can't really see it with malleus. he gives off single child energy who would be content with not having any children. why have a child when he has everything else in the world? don't forget to invite him to a child's birthday party though. feels more like a godfather than an actual father.

lilia vanrouge

foster dad. and a good one too. his foster kids might say he's a little weird but overall, he's very charming. he already has to watch over some pseudo kids while at nrc anyways. some of the kids he might adopt if they consented to being adopted. i mean lilia already adopted silver so yeah. foster dad and a dad with kids.

silver

i believe silver would follow in lilia's footsteps, which is being a dad who adopts. he's responsible and certainly capable of taking care of kids so he has everything he needs to provide. he would adopt maybe two to three kids and make sure to raise them into strong, kind people.

sebek zigvolt

honestly, i really don't think he would have kids. sebek is very dedicated to his job as being malleus's bodyguard. such a schedule must be exhausting and fill up his day really quickly. so he wouldn't have the time to have kids. i do see him being a father figure to someone, probably a mentor to the person.

HEARTSLABYUL

riddle rosehearts

i firmly believe that riddle would have a kid or two in order to attempt to right the wrongs of his mother's parenting. of course he loves his kids and would have rules (maybe a little too many) but he would be a lot more laxed than his mother. on another hand, i can see the possibility of him not having kids because he fears he might end up just like his mother.

trey clover

i can see trey having kids or being child-free. it's cute to imagine him teaching his kids how to bake and to eventually let them help out in his family's bakery. on the other hand, i can see him being more of a cool uncle. still takes over the bakery but if it doesn't close, he'll let his nephew/niece/nibling take over after him. he definitely brings the best desserts to family gatherings. free cakes for birthdays too.

cater diamond

yes he would and he would be one of those parents who's friends with their kids. change my mind. try to. he knows all the new trends, all the new lingo. his attempts to use the new slang for the kids would be hilariously embarrassing. but also the lack of shame kind of adds to his charm as a dad. two kids probably. one of them definitely looks exactly like him.

ace trappola

ace would 100% have kids. in fact, i think he would be dead set on having kids. doesn't matter if they're adopted or biological or foster. he would just be a dad. would definitely have a big family so three to four kids.

deuce spade

maybe one or two kids. i feel like deuce isn't really that big of a child person so he would be open to the idea but not entirely enthusiastic. if it happened though, it happened. he would make sure to set himself as a good role model to prevent his kids from falling down the punk rabbit hole like he did when he was a child.

POMEFIORE

vil schoenheit

personally, i don't think so. if vil had the choice, he would be child-free. if he did had children, he would only have one so basically a single child like him. not to mention, imagine being the child of vil schoenheit. it sounds like hell. as much as i would like to believe vil would be a good dad, i think he would put way too much pressure on his child to look perfect, act perfect, take pictures perfectly, basically be perfect.

rook hunt

rook could definitely have kids. about one or two, probably two because i feel like he believes in having siblings. he would definitely be a great dad because he would be very accepting, very tolerant. would love his kids regardless and be extremely supportive. might be the kind of dad to chaperone at his kid's junior prom but overall, i think he would be really sweet. you can count on him to go shopping with his child and to make them feel confident and beautiful and handsome.

epel felmier

honestly, i don't know. on one hand, i feel like epel wouldn't really have kids. but also, he's from a farming family so i would think he would have kids. it's entirely possible to think about him having a big family because of farming. but also i wouldn't be shocked if he only had, like, two kids max.

SAVANACLAW

leona kingscholar

absolutely not. he's happy being child-free and not needing to take care of a child. i think if his interaction with cheka were to say anything, leona's happy just being a grumpy uncle (part of me would like to believe he's a little endeared by his nephew but i highly doubt that).

ruggie bucchi

ruggie is a big maybe. on one hand, i can see him not having kids. on the other hand, i can see him having kids but only one. two maybe. he briefly mentions that he grew up in the slums which indicates he was impoverished, so if he did have kids he would only have one or two. both reasons follow the same logic of "less mouths to feed."

jack howl

yes. i believe he would have kids. maybe three to four. would be a sports dad and invest in his kids athletic hobbies. he wouldn't understand other hobbies but nonetheless i think he would be happy to learn about his kid's non-athletic interests.

OCTAVINELLE

azul ashengrotto

azul would only have a kid to help swindle people. if having a child can help his capitalistic aspirations then yes, he would have a kid. and i think as a result the child would also end up very much like azul. most likely would be a single dad. but can't cook. jade has to help teach him how to cook something edible.

jade leech

i'm not so sure about jade but i think if it came down to it, he's open to having kids. would he necessarily choose to have them? not really. but he's certainly open to the idea.

floyd leech

floyd, unlike his brother, would probably want kids. he would choose to have kids and having kids would mean constantly messing with them around. probably one or two. maybe twins. having twins would be quite the turn.

SCARABIA

kalim al-asim

he absolutely would have kids. and not just like one or two. but like three to four (maybe more?). he can afford it as the crown prince of the scalding sands. on top of that, he comes from a big family himself (implied with the constant food poisoning he got from eating other people's food aside from jamil's). on top of having a big family, he'd also be a great dad. loving, caring, taking interest in his kids' interests. might be a little aloof at times but it's endearing.

jamil viper

only about one kid. feel like jamil wouldn't want many kids if he had any. if there was a choice, he'd be child-free. being kalim's retainer is absolutely exhausting and if kalim had kids, no doubt jamil would have to help raise them. if he did have that one kid, jamil would be a good dad. dad's cooking is always the best.

IGNIHYDE

idia shroud

definitely would not have kids. he's better suited to be an older brother than a father. maybe you can argue the stuff he does for ortho translates to fatherly skills but i don't think idia would be able to handle it. him having a kid sounds really out of his comfort zone. he feels more like he would have a cat as a kid, or be a cat person in general.

[scripttorture]

I came across your Torture in Fiction tab where you reviewed a Doctor Who episode and mentioned your love of the show so I'm going to mention exactly what I'm writing. It's basically a Bill/Heather story after they leave together and I'd like to accurately take into account the type of consequences (short term and long termr) of the entire turned into a cyberman ordeal. So any input would be highly appreciated.

Anon, I think I love you. Lesbian romance in the stars with one of my favourite characters, you are too kind.

 Let’s start at the beginning.

 For those unfamiliar with Doctor Who, the Cybermen are a recurring foe. The idea behind them is that they are people, cybernetically enhanced people with all the ‘unnecessary’ bits removed. Like the ability to feel pain or hope or love. The ultimate aim of the Cybermen is to make everyone else like them. They believe that not having emotional connections makes them superior.

 And in one of Bill’s stories she gets turned into a prototype Cyberman. Except due to some unique circumstances the programming doesn’t quite take. Bill is left with a Cyberman body but her thoughts, personality and ability to feel are intact.

 Through more unique circumstances (which depending on your interpretation may include Bill dying and being resurrected-) Heather restores her body as it was pre-Cybermen.

 We’re never told exactly what happens to Bill. But it’s clear from the context that the procedure is painful and not consensual.

 We do see Bill for a few days afterwards. She struggles to accept that she’s a Cyberman and doesn’t seem to know how to process what she’s been through. She seems more or less OK, but given the short time frame we see her for it’s difficult to say if this is a bad portrayal or not. For some people it takes a while for things to sink in and for symptoms to become apparent.

 Going forward I’m going to assume that’s the case for Bill.

 I’m going to make a couple of other assumptions because there isn’t anything in reality which lines up that well with the Cybermen.

 There is not anything that can really 'take away' all emotions. Some drugs can result in emotional blunting as a side effect, but less intense emotion is not the same thing as no emotion. The intense, invasive surgical procedures that are implied to make a Cyberman are completely fictional, and probably wouldn't be survivable in reality.

 It's a scenario that you'd expect to be traumatic: an extremely painful, invasive act that re-structures the entire body and is done without consent. Given the particular circumstances in Bill's story, it's tempting to compare it to non-consensual medical procedures.

 As a black, lesbian woman who is aware of both modern politics and history it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume Bill can make the same comparisons I have. Black women have been subjected to forced sterilisation and used for medical experimentation within living memory (see The Immortal Life of Henreitta Lacks for a discussion of unethical experimentation in the recent past).

 Heather is less likely to be aware of this history and these issues.

 As I said there isn't anything that lines up exactly; I keep thinking of forced sterilisation, though this often doesn’t cause lasting physical pain. It also brought to mind some of the… less ethical ‘treatments’ and ‘experiments’ in recent history.

 We’ll assume that Bill has a realistic memory of what happened, that the experience was traumatising and that she isn’t in physical pain.

 I’d also make the argument that turning someone into a Cyberman could be considered torture in the legal sense. It’s done by a group that effectively controls territory, to people who are under their power. It causes suffering and in Bill’s case it is arguably done to punish the Doctor.

 You’ve read the blog before so you probably know the drill when it comes to the common long-term symptoms of torture. Here’s the Masterpost should anyone else want to have a look. I’ll get back to symptoms in a moment.

 In the short term I think that it’s likely Bill would experience something similar to modern survivors of ‘clean’ tortures.

 ‘Clean torture’ is a term Rejali uses to describe techniques that don’t often leave obvious external marks. These are no less dangerous then other methods; people can still be seriously injured, disabled or die because of clean torture techniques.

 But the lack of obvious marks makes it harder to prove a person was tortured. And when the public perception of torture is that it always leaves scars many survivors find they’re dismissed, belittled and denied services.

 People don’t believe they were tortured. Because we are taught that torture ‘must’ leave marks.

 And Bill has just come out of the Cyber-conversion process unscarred. In a world where most people believe that turning back once you’ve been made a Cyberman is impossible.

 This is likely to be a factor if she tries to get professional help as well as in everyday interactions.

 Bill herself might assume that her symptoms are overblown or somehow put on; that they’re not warranted because her body has been perfectly restored.

 When it comes to more long term symptoms, the right choice will always depend on the characters and the story you want to tell.

 Personally I wouldn’t want to give Bill suicidal tendencies or an addiction because I feel like those are symptoms that could shift the story away from the central relationship. I think they’re symptoms that usually demand more focus and that can make balancing them with the central story more difficult.

 I usually suggest that authors try to include memory problems in a realistic way and I think they’d be an especially good fit here. (The Masterpost summarising the most common forms of memory problems survivors have is here).

 Essentially I think that you could use memory problems to highlight how Bill’s time as a Cyberman has affected her mind. So much of our identity and self-image is rooted in our memories. Finding flaws in them, especially around important things, can shake our sense of self.

 And that ties in to the way Cybermen are consistently used in Doctor Who to denote the loss of self. All of the common memory problems could be used to raise these philosophical questions and tie Bill’s symptoms more firmly to the plot.

 Insomnia is a symptom I always find a little difficult because it has so many knock on effects.

 The worsening of reaction times, alertness, coordination, combined with the pain and shakes and occasional visual hallucination or micro-sleep means that insomnia isn’t a symptom I’d recommend for a character like a superhero. If you want the character to consistently win fights then it’s not a good pick.

 Similarly the long term effects on creativity, reasoning, concentration, emotional processing and learning mean it’s a bad pick if the character is supposed to be an inventive genius.

 One of the nice (but underutilised) things about Doctor Who is that the way the stories are typically structured means that not every character has to be exceptional at everything. Bill’s strengths were not superhuman physical combat or exceptional genius (even though she was incredibly intelligent); they were compassion and her ability to form fast, strong friendships with just about anyone she meets.

 Insomnia could fit your story but I think it depends on what you want the characters to do on a regular basis.

 Chronic pain could be a good fit.

 The conversion process radically changed Bill’s body, a change that she more or less refused to accept was real during the story. In those circumstances physical pain can be an interesting addition: it simultaneously acts as a reminder of what Bill suffered and ties her to her restored body now.

 And since chronic pain in torture survivors can be psychological, or a combination of psychological and physical, there’s no reason why Bill’s body couldn’t be perfectly healed while experiencing chronic pain.

 This is also a symptom that characters can be more proactive about. She can try things and find solutions much more quickly then she might be able to for something like depression. Stretches, exercise, mobility aids, organisation, painkillers and forward planning can all be helpful. And early success could help you to show the character feeling more empowered, reclaiming her body.

 I’m not sure if difficulty relating to others would be a good pick, considering Bill’s canonical strengths. However social isolation could be interesting as an obstacle to gradually overcome.

 Going beyond the usual symptoms- Have you read any of the Doctor Who comics? Because I keep thinking of The Flood, which was a Cyberman story with the Eighth Doctor.

 It had a rather wonderful Cyberman design and had the Cybermen attempting to persuade large numbers of people to volunteer for Cyber conversion. They did it by chemically manipulating the emotions of an entire city; making feelings unbearably intense and then offering the conversion process as a solution.

 Bill kept her feelings but she would have known she was supposed to lose them. And she’d go from that to having incredibly intense feelings. Because she’d have developed trauma symptoms.

 She might be tempted to view her symptoms as the ‘natural’ consequence of regaining full capacity for emotion, rather then due to trauma. Latching on to a physical, rather then psychological, difference.

 I’d also consider whether all of this changes Bill’s relationship with her own body. Relief at getting it back might be accompanied by a heightened awareness of changes, even natural ones.

 I think if I was writing this I’d be tempted to add in little details, triggers or self-soothing behaviours tied to her body.

 The Cyberman chest unit for that design looks heavy. Does compression around her chest make her panic? Do rubber gloves feel horrible? Does the sensation of something going over her face, like the ‘mask’ on these Cybermen, prompt intrusive memories?

 The ‘handles’ on the head were supposed to suppress emotion in this version. Could Bill reassure herself that they’re gone by touching her own hair? Do short sleeves feel ‘better’, because she can feel the sun, wind or rain against her skin? Does she wear her earrings more often, because the weight of them and the way they move is comforting?

 Good luck with your story. I hope this helps. :)

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