#I'm fed up with this pointless discourse

[nu-carniviva]

A censored version of Nu: Carnival is coming to the app store... Which is not good

When this was first brought to my attention, I honestly didn't believe it at first. I mean, why would I? Nu: Carnival has advertised itself as an adult-only game since it's release. I rarely go on Twitter since it's a total shithole, but that's how I found out that the rumors were true. Nu: Carnival - Bliss, they're calling it. The overall plot, events, and gameplay will be the same. But many crucial changes will be done to the dialogue, CG, and audio. Long post ahead, but I'll be ranting about it below

Why is this a bad move?

There are multiple reasons as to why making a censored, teen friendly version of Nu: Carnival is a horrible decision. I might not get them all, but here are a few I can think of off the top of my head:

It is literally impossible to separate the nsfw from the source. Whether the devs like it or not, they made an nsfw game. After the first half of the prologue, the game opens with porn. You are introduced to two characters at the time — Aster and Morvay. That right there is already an issue. Morvay is an incubus. He is a sex demon who wears leather lingerie. While there is certainly more to his personality, his is very existence is sex. Sex is what keeps him alive and fed. Morvay is very open about his sexual desires and the topic of sex as a whole. He doesn't find it shameful or taboo. So... What are they going to do with Morvay? He can't be removed since he's bonded with Aster. Censoring him will have him take a MAJOR hit. Now that leads me to the second part of this bullet point: sex is a crucial part of the plot. Essence is what keeps Klein stable. Eiden and his clan's job is to use their essence to fix the gem altars so said altars can keep the essence regulated throughout the continent. While there are several ways to replenish one's essence, the most effective way is through sex. Sex also plays a crucial role in expanding on the plot and the characters. Sex scenes aren't just there for entertainment, there is genuine lore within the dialogue. Through sex, Eiden bonds with his clan members in the most intimate and personal ways. He sees his clan members at their most vulnerable moments, and through that they share a deep connection. You can see when sex scenes go from Eiden and whoever the clan member is having sex just to have it to having sex because they genuinely care for each other and want to physically bond. I could delve deeper into this topic, but I'm sure you all understand by now what I'm trying to say. Sex is not just an accessory or perk. It's part of the worldbuilding

Minors will not be able to escape nsfw within the fandom. Since the game's release, the fan base has been entirely made up of adults. Since we are all adults, we freely talk and post about the nsfw parts of the game. You go on any social media platform where Nu: Carnival is discussed, and you will see nsfw. It's a very casual topic in the fandom, and in a way it's something that bonds us together… As weird as that may sound. My point is, making a censored version of the game is pointless, because the source itself in inherently nsfw and the fan base is full of adults making nsfw content which is usually uncensored since the artists expect for anyone in the fandom to only be adults

Minors in fandoms often bring drama... Hear me out on this one. Not to sound like one of those "grr minors dni I hate minors" people, but kids in fandoms often bring drama and discourse. As aggravating at it is, I have to admit that it isn't entirely their fault. When you're in your early teens, you're starting to discover yourself. You become very opinionated and defensive over your beliefs because you're trying to figure out who you are and where you stand in life. You're trying to gain independence and autonomy. It's normal... But it's very draining. Since Nu: Carnival has an all-adult fandom, there isn't a lot of drama at all. Sure, you're going to have stupid people saying stupid shit to start drama, that happens everywhere, but those people are typically ignored because it isn't too common. With kids coming into the fandom and starting unnecessary drama, it'll be so much harder to avoid. Not only that, but kids don't have as much media literacy as adults do. It's not an insult, but simply a fact. Nu: Carnival delves in a LOT of heavy themes in the game. Some of which are stated outright while others require you to read in between the lines to pick up on them. Since the fandom is all adults, it's easier for us to handle these topics and discuss them maturely

Why are the devs doing this?

My guess? Money. The devs are part of a company after all. At the end of the day, all companies want to make money. By making a game they can put on app stores, the game becomes more visible to a broader audience. People who have never heard of Nu: Carnival before will see what appears to be an innocent anime game when it's far from that. All it will take is a simple google search for people to see the the game is very much nsfw and not something minors should indulge themselves in. It's dangerous for both parties involved, both the minors and the adults

But hey, whatever's bringing in the money, right? Sigh...

[beevean]

If they screw up DMC as badly as they did Castlevania, I can't imagine the DMC fanbase will be nearly as accepting. It's a lot larger and more active than Castlevania's fanbase, so butchering characters and pointless changes will undoubtedly go over more poorly. There might be a similar reaction to what happened with the Witcher and Halo shows.

It's likely, yes

I wasn't in the CV fandom in 2017, but I can imagine that fans were outright starved for new content, after a decade of nothing but pachinko games. Plus, the first season won so many people over because it's short and somewhat faithful to the spirit of CV3, which elevates compared it to the average videogame adaptation.

(I can relate to this because it's what happened to IDW Sonic in 2018 :') I fell for the trap too.)

Then you add to this that the whole brand fell out of popularity precisely due to the lack of games, attracting people who never heard of the games and hooking them with the flashy combat and snappy dialogue, and there you have it.

From what I know, none of this applies to DMC, which saw a very well received game released a few years ago, and is overall more popular to the general audience with a better fed fandom.

I just hope that the DMC fandom knows better than to get involved in pointless race discourse because at this point I'm sick of it. Guys, no, the problem is not that they made this character black, it's the literally everything else. Please. I just know that a hypothetical N!Lady would be made black and it would be Isaac and Annette all over again D:

[uncle-fruity]

Actually, yes, I want to reblog this version too, because the tags are so correct, and speak to intersectionality. We learn more about each other and how to stand up for each other and you know what??? If you're paying attention, you'll see that all forms of oppression rely heavily on the same tactics, just packaged up differently depending on who is being targeted. In reading about anti-racism, I was able to better understand dehumanization (a big problem for POC). In understanding dehumanization, I can see how it also affects all corners of the queer community. Or, to flip it around, learning about how queer folks are accused of hypersexuality as a means to discredit them helped me see those patterns when racism is afoot!

Caring about the bodily autonomy of queer folks led me to learning about bodily autonomy in general, and how it isn't just trans folks who are gatekept from decisions about their own bodies -- intersex folks, disabled folks, folks who need high levels of support, children, and tbh plenty more groups than that also have to deal with not having a say in what happens to their bodies. If we are standing up for our own bodily autonomy, we have to care about everyone else impacted by the problem. There is no problem with seeing our struggles as inherently linked, even when those struggles are vastly different based on our individual situations. If anything, the more folks we have with skin in the game, the more likely we are to succeed in our goals to change things -- IF we work together.

And this is why, when it comes to infighting, I will not entertain it. If you think one oppressed group is less deserving of rights, less deserving of being heard out, less deserving of community support, then I'm sorry but you can take your separatist attitude and separate yourself from all the folks trying to make real change. It's cop behavior, and whether or not infighters and discoursers are literally feds or not makes no difference. Anyone who functions to divide us and make us nitpick over pointless shit like who suffers the most and which people are most deserving of being listened to -- those folks are doing the work of the people who most want to keep us separated, powerless, and oppressed.

The Civil Rights movement in the United States was literally undercut by feds who infiltrated the activist groups and caused internal conflict between members. Fred Hampton was murdered in part because his work in bringing the queer community and the black community together under one cause was so alarming to the people in power. Call me paranoid, but I'm not gonna take the chance that the anonymous user calling me a transmisogynist over tumblr dot com with nothing to back it up aside from imagined vibes is doing so in good faith. As if my understanding of history and oppression and the levels my own government will go to to stop a movement is going to illicit any reaction aside from assuming that person is a cop, just in case they are.

My assumption when queer folks start enforcing queer gender roles and hierarchies is that they have not done any of the work necessary to fixing the real problems we face as a community. My best faith assumption is that they're kids, that they're new, and/or that they've rarely met people outside of their own little cultural bubbles. My worst faith assumption is that they're cops trying to undermine our movement, because that is what their words and behaviors serve to do, whether they intend to or not. When you use the tools of the oppressor, you become a tool of oppression yourself. You can't unlearn that shit if you don't learn from and listen to people who aren't like you. And you can't learn from and listen to people who aren't like you if you never learn to shut the fuck up and actually listen. Even when it's something you don't fully understand or even fully recognize as a problem. You'll never understand someone else's point of view if you never hear them out to begin with, or if you get angry at someone when their experiences don't line up with your expectations of them.

Anyway, all that to say... we're all in this together. Learn some stuff about decolonization. Read Ibram X. Kendi. Type "COINTELPRO" into a search engine. Get a book from the library about a minority group you don't belong to. Either show up or shut up. We cannot afford to hate each other.

idk chat i just dont see how hard it is to admit that trans women, trans men, and non binary people all face their own forms of specific oppression and also transphobia as a whole. why do we act like we can only believe in one or the other

[satans-tiddies]

reclaiming a slur means using it for yourself. you can't just say calling other people queer without their permission (incl. using it as a blanket term) is ok just because it "has a history of being reclaimed", that doesn't change that it's a slur. it's no different from the f slur. how is some people being fine with it more important than the people who are Not fine with it? if you forcefully call OTHERS the word, thats not reclaiming it, it's just calling others a slur

I assume you’re talking about this post. Well done on missing the entire point, I guess?

Let’s see how your ask holds up when we replace queer with another reclaimed homophobic slur: gay.

reclaiming a slur means using it for yourself. you can’t just say calling other people gay without their permission (incl. using it as a blanket term) is ok just because it “has a history of being reclaimed”, that doesn’t change that it’s a slur. it’s no different from the f slur. how is some people being fine with it more important than the people who are Not fine with it? if you forcefully call OTHERS gay, thats not reclaiming it, it’s just calling others a slur

Oh no, no one is allowed to say “they gay community” anymore because you might accidentally include men attracted exclusively to men who don’t identify as gay! /sarcasm

If you want the long-form, researched and sourced answer to your frankly insulting, asinine ask, it’s under the readmore, but tl;dr:

When I say “queer people”, I am (shockingly enough) referring to people who identify as queer.

If you don’t identify as queer, I am not talking about you.

If you’re going to police queer people about their identity because it’s a slur, but not any of the other IDs that are also reclaimed slurs (gay, bisexual, fag, etc.) or that have a pathological history (homosexual, lesbian, trans, etc.), all you’re telling me is that you’re being hypocritical and perpetuating exclusionist/REG/radfem rhetoric.

I have never directly called specific people “queer” if they hadn’t let me know that they aren’t uncomfortable being called that, so I must conclude that:

You’re telling me that I cannot use “queer” as an umbrella term for my community.

Even though it is the most widely preferred umbrella term among LGBTQ+ individuals.

Even though there IS a community that calls itself “the queer community”, which has ideological, political and historical distinctions from the “gay rights movement” and “LGBT”, and includes people who are openly uncomfortable with being called “gay” or “LGBT”.

Fine. Dandy. But what do you propose I use as a blanket term instead?

“LGBT” is a popular acronym, but it’s highly limiting. Only four letters. But that’s not the only issue here. Do you see the G in LGBT? G as in “gay”? If you sent me this incredibly ignorant ask, you’re probably not aware that it is also a reclaimed slur.

The biggest irony is that the “queer is a slur, use gay instead” sentiment has already happened in the past, but in reverse. “Queer” was adopted by American MLM in the early 20th century because they considered “fairy”, “invert” and “gay” too derogatory. Like the other two, “gay” had connotations of prostitution, promiscuity and “deviant” gender expression.

What inevitably happened is that mainstream American culture picked up on this and started using “queer” as an insult instead.

When people started to mobilize under the word “gay” in the 1930′s-60’s, older queer men expressed their disapproval at a younger generation, who hadn’t been targeted by the word “gay” as an insult, using it as an identity. They disapproved of the names “gay rights movement” and “gay community”. BUT, they recognized that it was important for the new gay generation, and didn’t throw hissy fits when it became the new popular term. 

The term gay began to catch on in the 1930s, and itsprimacy was consolidated during the war. By the late 1940s, younger gay men were chastising oldermen who still used queer, which the younger men now regarded as demeaning. As Will Finch, whocame out into the gay world of Times Square in the 1930s, noted in his diary in 1951, “The word‘queer’ is becoming [or coming to be regarded as] more and more derogatory and [is] less and lessused by hustlers and trade and the homosexual, especially the younger ones, and the term ‘gay’ [is]taking its place. I loathe the word, and stick to ‘queer,’ but am constantly being reproved, especiallyin so denominating myself.”

Younger men rejected queer as a pejorative name that others had given them, which highlightedtheir difference from other men. Even though many “queers” had also rejected the effeminacy of thefairies, younger men were well aware that in the eyes of straight men their “queerness” hinged ontheir supposed gender deviance. In the 1930s and 1940s, a series of press campaigns claiming thatmurderous “sex deviates” threatened the nation’s women and children gave “queerness” an even moresinister and undesirable set of connotations. In calling themselves gay, a new generation of meninsisted on the right to name themselves, to claim their status as men, and to reject the “effeminate”styles of the older generation. Some men, especially older ones like Finch, continued to prefer queerto gay, in part because of gay’s initial association with the fairies. Younger men found it easier toforget the origins of gay in the campy banter of the very queens whom they wished to reject.

—George Chauncey, 1994. Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, p.19 (emphasis mine).

Some older gay people who were hurt by “queer” are uncomfortable with being called “queer”. But older queer people—as well as younger ones like me—were hurt by “gay”, and some of us are also uncomfortable with being called “gay”. (I’m not, but I personally know some guys who are.)

Oh, did you forget the entirety of the 2000’s, when the use of “gay” as a slur by homophobes was so frequent and widespread that there were entire awareness campaigns to try to cut that shit out? I remember. I remember very vividly, because in all the traumatic incidents of homophobic violence I faced, the word that was shouted at me was “gay”.

Not to mention that the word “bisexual” used to not even refer to sexuality, but to intersex people. It was used in a similarly deriding way as “hermaphrodite”. And yet, it was adopted for an entirely different purpose.

Your assertion that queer “is no different from the f slur” is also funny to me as someone who hangs around cis gay men a lot. It seems that you’re completely oblivious to the enormous number of guys who call themselves and their peers “fags”. It’s commonplace. If you wander around cis gay male Tumblr, you can see dozens of blogs doing this.

“Fag” and “faggot” are considered by most to be much more inflammatory than “queer” (you yourself used it as an example of a bad word you shouldn’t use at other people!), but…where are all the people going to “fag” blogs and saying “don’t you know that f*g is a slur?”.

Oh, right. You only bother to attack “queer” because it specifically benefits people who aren’t white, conformist, perisex cis gays and lesbians.

Now that that’s out of the way, let’s run down a list of alternative umbrella terms, since you find a reclaimed slur so offensive.

Oops, “LGBT” features a reclaimed slur. Same for variations of it.

“Gay community” ah damn, again.

“QUILTBAG” hell, it has at least two.

“MOGAI” checks out, no reclaimed slurs! But if I use this, internet exclusionists and anti-queers such as yourself will rip me to shreds.

It seems that I cannot find a single umbrella term that won’t offend anyone.

I have a proposal for you: when I call myself queer, and say “queer people” or “queer community, whoever doesn’t identify as queer can quietly exclude themselves. I am not talking about you. Queer people who don’t want to be called “gay” or “LGBT” already do this all the time, when people say “gay community” or “LGBT community”.

Stop listening to radical feminists and LG separatists for Christ’s sake.

And if you’re going to continue going to queer people’s inboxes to tell them that their identity is so dirty that they have to keep it as a dirty secret all to themselves, stop being a raging hypocrite and never fucking call a single other person the word “gay” ever again. 

[prompt-master]

The student slams their hands down on her podium.

"I'm telling you, they didn't eat that fucking grilled cheese willingly!" She shouts. "Prom hates mayonnaise!! I know that for a fact!!"

A collective groan sounds through the trial room. This discussion has gone on for far too long. People are starting to get tired. Suspicious even. The student won't let it go, and though there's no way to really prove them wrong, everyone just wants her to shut up about it. You can't just ask a dead body about their condiment preferences. The whole conversation seems completely pointless.

Even Monokuma looks bored. You can't help but relate to him a little, ignoring how much that thought disgusts you. The trial had been really, really uneventful. Accusations without evidence thrown about like confetti, trains of thought that end up shoved off the rails before they can even leave the station, leads that go nowhere, pointless arguments over the most trivial of topics, and throughout the whole nine hours of debate, that robotic bear grew more and more restless, even calling recesses for us to investigate more.

Even the detective is starting to get irritated. They didn't find anything condemning on the body, and even after interrogating the other students, nothing shocking or revealing came up.

You didn't find anything good either. In fact, you haven't spoken for most of the trial. There was just nothing to say that hadn't already been said.

The victim got up sometime before the nighttime announcement, after the group agreed to tuck in early. Monokuma, bored with how little progress we were making, confirmed the fact that the victim had planned to grab a snack before heading back to their room, before the doors to the dining hall were locked.

Obviously, they didn't make it.

One student kept saying the toxic grilled cheese had been force-fed to them. They kept saying the victim would never eat mayonnaise willingly, and since that was the main source of poison (It was also, like, everywhere. If the victim hated it, they wouldn't have put so much on), it made her statement kind of difficult to believe.

There was one thing that kind of supported her theory. The tainted jar in question had no label, nor did it have a prominent scent. It was only identified as mayonnaise by one of the other students who had a very well-developed sense of smell, and was able to get past the sweet maple-syrup scent of the antifreeze. It was possible the victim mistook the mayonnaise for something else, but even then, it would be unlikely. Mayonnaise has a very distinct taste, even with heaps of poison added, so if they really hated it they would have spat it out immediately. Only a tired idiot would keep eating something they despised of their own free will.

Monokuma let out a very dramatic sigh.

"You know, I'm getting reeeal tired of this. If you kiddies don't find anything interesting soon, I might just execute one of you as compensation." He growled in that annoying voice of his. "This trial is taking wayy too long!"

Those words got us on edge. Some of the others started accusing the student while she went on about her theory. One student yelled at Monokuma for being unfair. You and the detective shared a look. This wasn't good.

One student, who'd been quiet the whole time, suddenly cleared their throat.

"I may be going out on a limb here, but...." They waited for the others to calm down before continuing. "Do you think the victim ate the mayonnaise without knowing it was mayonnaise? Antifreeze has a very sweet taste and smell. They could have mistook it for something else."

"And you are..?" You ask.

"Ultimate Auto Racer." They reply. "I work with antifreeze. I don't know about arsenic, but I do know you can easily eat antifreeze without knowing it's toxic."

The detective crosses their arms in thought. Monokuma perks up and leans out of his slumped position, almost as if electrified.

"Even so, why would they put something sweet on a grilled cheese? That's kind of an acquired taste." You say. "If we're going off the assumption they don't like mayonnaise."

Everyone is thinking now. The accusations aren't thrown around anymore. The whole trial room is quiet.

"Maybe...maybe they're right." One student pipes up quietly. "Maybe Prom thought it was something else. Maybe they didn't taste it before they put it on the sandwich."

They looked around the room timidly, shrinking under everyone else's gaze. They obviously didn't like attention.

"I-I mean, what if they thought it was butter? L-Like the jar wasn't that big, and mayo k-kind of looks like butter spread...." The student shoved out quickly. "With no label they wouldn't know, right..?"

"That's.... actually a valid point." The detective says approvingly. The student offers a small smile in response, but doesn't say anything else. Speaking up must not be their strong suit.

"It was late, right?" Another student cuts in. "We were all tired. The last execution left us all drained, since it kind of.....went wrong near the end. The victim could have been super out of it and wanted food to keep the off their mind."

"Like stress eating, but to cope with something? I do that myself, so it's not unbelievable. The victim could be like that, for all we know." Yet another adds.

"What if it wasn't intended for Prom? Like, someone else here probably really likes mayo, maybe they messed with it in hopes of killing them instead!"

"You saying the victim was a tired idiot then?"

"Do you know them enough to say otherwise?"

"Gad, this whole trial is confusing... We don't even know the victim that well, how are supposed to their killer? There's no drama to work with!"

"Maybe they grabbed the mayo thinking it was butter." The detective mused. "And when they tasted it, it probably didn't taste too much like mayo, with all that antifreeze added to it. Maybe they were too tired to remake it. The victim was on a time limit after all."

You furrow your brow in thought. The others a kind of making sense, but it's not much to go off of. You still don't know who poisoned the mayonnaise in the first place.

"Let's say that did happen. We still don't know who poisoned it." A new speaker scoffs, practically reading your thoughts exactly. "All this talk won't get us anywhere if we don't have a real suspect."

The miniscule amount of energy in the room dissolved. They were right, everyone knew it, but it'd been nice to think we were going somewhere.

The quiet student from before clears their throat. Anyone who isn't talking or spouting theories turns to look at them again.

"If, um, it's any consolation, I just remembered something...."

The detective holds up a hand to shut up the person next to them. You do the same. Eventually the trial room calms down enough for the student to talk. Monokuma giggles.

They take a deep breath, like whatever's on their mind is really hard to say. "I....I did see someone mucking around in the storage closet."

A truly riveting murder trial and I hope after playing it people discourse about my character simply because they hated it and people argue over whether or not i was a good person and the answer to that question is a mysterious wink