#I’m of the opinion that jack is very coordinated and that includes how he chooses to sleep. cant be falling off branches and such

[bignostalgias]

honk shoo

[chekovsphaser]

Crown of Candy ep 5 thoughts

Okay, so here’s my understanding and my questions about the unfolding situation in A Crown of Candy

Church is evil. Pontifex is bad. The trouble with that is, that in essence there is no one nation that can be trusted – anyone from anywhere could dedicate their allegiance to the Bulb above all, even privately. I think Plumbeline is probably one of these. She was clearly coordinating with the Pontifex to set up Amethar, so we can assume she KNEW that the Pontifex had dangerous information and quite likely even where she got this dangerous information. However, I don’t think simple spite at having lost the joust, especially due to the goodwill Amethar showed her in offering her a council position, and her seemingly solid relationship with her father who held no ill will towards Amethar or Candia would have been enough to turn her to this kind of action. However, an honest belief that Candia suffers heresy and devil-worship lightly and that such a thing would corrupt the empire if her father’s choice was honoured seems a much less petty and more logical motivation.

A similar notion applies to Stilton Cordeau, though while I think Plumbeline’s involvement is partially opportunistic – the Pontifex may have reached out to her or her to the Pontifex due to the way the situation was unfolding, Cordeau clearly has been working for the church and the Pontifex for a long time. I agree with Theo that the intent is for Cordeau to marry Primsy Coldbottle and become the ruling monarch of the Dairy Islands as a way of ingraining the church into politics on even more fronts. It might even be of specific import that the church have a secure foothold in the Dairy Islands, as Candia’s greatest ally, and its general location close to the Meatlands, both countries which as far as I can tell, have the weakest church affiliation. I think the attack on the Sucrosi road was definitely church orchestrated. However, I don’t think that the majority of the cheese people are aware of this. I don’t think Amethar’s allies turned against him (I think it’s pretty safe to say that, on account of how we know the Pontifex tortured Manta Ray Jack). I on’t think Primsy or Anabelle Cheddar or anyone are actually aware of Stilton Cordeau’s plot. Primsy is what, 16? Stilton is her childhood sweetheart whose courtship of her was described by Anabelle as “aggressive” and having started ages ago. I think the odds are pretty good that Primsy’s emotions are being manipulated by Stilton who, again, being around 16-17 and having been involved in the church from a young age yadda yadda brainwashing manipulation and so forth but ultimately the perpetrator of the actions. I think Anabelle was just trying to do her cousin a solid and not mess up the order of ascension of the Dairy Islands even more. Maybe her own sweetheart died in war or whatever and that’s why she never married and she wanted her cousin to avoid the same fate. Maybe she was afraid that Primsy might choose to be stubborn and not marry at all and then also be disqualified from ruling the country as she herself has been. Because if she had been in on the church plot to involve itself deeply into the politics of the Dairy Islands, as the former Princess, it would have been much easier for her to back out of her no-marriage decision and take on the throne in the name of the church than to try to institute Stilton in this roundabout way. Unlike Amethar, it is relatively clear that while she holds no personal spite towards her cousin, the fact that she was removed from her position is considered her greatest shame – ruling is not something she is actively averse to.

Now that brings us to Primogen Alfredi and Senator Ciabatta. When we first saw Alfredi’s headquarters, and how the Bulbian stuff there was all fake, I was like “Oh, so the Pontifex isn’t behind the assassination attempts, because she wouldn’t align herself with a heretic knowingly”. However, with how the rest of the episode played out, I think otherwise. Alfredi’s miracles were shams, but unlike Lapin’s they weren’t shams made by the powers of other deities, just alchemy and panache. Because of this I think it is not impossible that the Pontifex knew and endorsed Alfredi’s actions. Saint Citrina’s book was imbued with the true power of the Bulb. And it must be very disheartening and downright threatening to the worldview of the One True Church that there has been a singular saint that can be proven to have wielded the power of the God in question and that saint was not only from a nation which consistently fails to pledge itself as fully to the God as is desired, but also was the loving sister of a known witch and presumably actively consorted with animists, pagans, and witches. Then along comes another miracle worker in the name of the Bulb, and he’s also from fucking Candia. That’s threatening. So the Pontifex sets up Primogen Alfredi with alchemical “miracles” to be used in service of the Bulb and better curate the image of the Bulb as a One True God. I don’t, however, think that Alfredi was working 100% on the up and up for the Pontifex – namely because of her possession of documents concerning heresies and bizarre doctrines as they relate to the Pontifex herself. As a skilled blackmailer, I think if she hadn’t been arrested for execution, things would have turned sour eventually between the Pontifex and Alfredi.

As for how this relates to Ceresia and Senator Ciabatta, I’m not entirely sure. I think he was being genuine when he invited Lapin to go expose Alfredi’s secrets and retrieve what blackmail she had on members of the senate (himself included presumably). I think Amethar is probably right in that he is trying to use this blackmail material and the way it was used to manipulate the senate into doing whatever the church wanted in order to institute another imperatorship in Ceresia. But I don’t think that that is actually tied to any of the rest of it. So far my opinion is that this is a dude who is doing some internal politics stuff with his country, but isn’t actually actively involved in the international aspects or political church machinations that are currently happening. I could be very wrong on that front. A lot of the Ceresians we have seen put a lot of faith in the Bulb, this could be another Plumbeline “to the church above all” situation but I don’t think so. Yet.

Wow this was over a 1000 words of speculation and meta and I didn’t even get to my biggest question which is WHAT THE FUCK BRENNAN????

[nerdygaymormon]

If you have time, do you mind writing a post about the history of Family: A Proclamation of The World. I would like to know more about what was actually going on at the time. So many people say that they envisioned the problems are society would have before it was even a problem, but I don't believe that. I know some people claim this political document is doctrine because we sustain all the apostle as prophets, seers and revalators. I also have heard that it is not doctrine. Thank you!!

This is a good ask.

I’m going to detail the efforts to get gay marriage legalized in Hawaii and the Church’s opposition. I will also drop in other notable happenings that occurred during this time. These things led the Church to issue the proclamation.

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If we go all the way back to 1980′s, several cities and states were dealing with gay rights (anti-discrimination ordinances) and same-sex marriage.

Aug 1984 - Elder Oaks writes a memo (which gets leaked a few years later) outlining his recommendation for how the Church should oppose anti-discrimination laws and also same-sex marriage. He puts forth “secular” arguments that can be used in opposing legislation.

1986 - The annual Utah Gay and Lesbian Festival is begun

In 1988 the Church hired a marketing agency in Hawaii to monitor and promote the Church’s stance on gay issues. One reason for choosing a firm in Hawaii was to separate the church’s name from the legislative efforts the firm was undertaking.

n 1989 Denmark became the first country in the world to legally recognize same-sex unions, calling them “registered partnerships.”

1990 - For the Strength of Youth pamphlet is published and in the “Sexual Purity” section it says “the Lord specifically forbids … sex perversion such as homosexuality”. It continues “homosexual and lesbian activities are sinful and an abomination to the Lord” and “unnatural affections … toward persons of the same gender are counter to God’s eternal plan”

Oct 1990 - Utah’s first pride march is organized by BYU shock-aversion therapy survivor Connell O’Donovan. The marchers go right past the Salt Lake temple.

Dec 1990 - 3 same sex couples applied for marriage licenses in Hawaii. Hawaii’s marriage law doesn’t specify anything about the sex of the people getting married. The Hawaii Attorney General’s office was asked for an opinion. The opinion is that under the United States Constitution the right to marry is fundamental, but only for different-sex couples.

Mar 1991 - Elder Jack Goaslind, church young men president, stated that the church would withdraw from the Boy Scouts of America if homosexual youth were allowed to join.

Apr 1991 - Citing the Hawaii Attorney General’s opinion, the marriage licenses were denied to the three couples.

May 1991 - A lawsuit, later known as Baehr v. Miike, was filed asking for the same-sex exclusion to marriage in Hawaii be declared unconstitutional. Hearings took place in September. The court considered whether Hawaii constitution’s right to privacy included a right to same sex marriage and decided that it did not.

May 1991 - The play Angels in America debuts in San Francisco and goes on to Broadway, winning Tony Awards. The play features a gay Mormon in a mixed-orientation marriage.

Oct 1991 - The circuit court ruled against the three couples, but it wasn’t that simple. The court found that under Hawaii’s equal protection clause, denying marriage licenses to same-sex couples constituted discrimination based on sex and declared that the state is required to justify this discrimination under the standard of strict scrutiny.

Strict scrutiny means when it comes to infringing on a constitutional right, the government has to show it has a compelling interest that requires it to do so (some examples include national security, or preserving the lives of a large number of people). The law to achieve this compelling interest has be to crafted to be very narrow, not overly broad in what it addresses. And the law has to use the least restrictive means to achieve the purpose.

The couples who lost the case announce they’re going to appeal to the Hawaii Supreme Court.

________ 

Elder Donald L. Hallstrom was serving as a Regional Representative. You may not be familiar with that term because the calling of Regional Representative is now known as Area Authority Seventy.

Elder Hallstrom was reading the local paper’s coverage of the trial, dismissal and appeal. If the Hawaii supreme court takes the case, same-sex marriage could become legal in Hawaii. Elder Hallstrom makes sure his priesthood leaders are aware of this possibility.

Nov 1991 - The church responded with a letter to be read in all congregations from the First Presidency titled “Standards of Morality and Fidelity” which talks about the “sacred nature of procreative powers” and the “divinely appointed roles of men and women.” It also said “sexual relations are proper only between husband and wife…within the bonds of marriage.” And that “homosexual and lesbian behavior” is sinful and those people could face church discipline.

Although the letter is signed by all three members of the First Presidency, President Ezra Taft Benson was in very poor health and was rarely seen in public after 1989. 

________

April 1992 - In General Conference, Elder Boyd K. Packer says that animals don’t mate with other animals of the same sex, so humans who do so degrade themselves below animals.

1992 - The Church publishes the pamphlet “Understanding and Helping Those Who Have Homosexual Problems” for ecclesiastical leaders. This booklet says that homosexual thoughts and feelings can be overcome and in some cases, heterosexual feelings emerge that lead to marriage.

Oct 1992 - The Hawaii Supreme Court heard the case.

April 1993 - Norway approves registered partnerships, becoming the 2nd country to legally recognize same-sex couples

May 1993 - The Hawaii Supreme Court issued its ruling. The court said if the state government wants to forbid same-sex marriages, it needs a compelling reason. Otherwise, limiting who a person may marry is sex-based discrimination and unconstitutional under Hawaii’s constitution which forbids any laws that discriminate by sex.

The high court sent the case back to the circuit court to issue a new decision based on whether the state can demonstrate a “compelling public interest” in denying marriage to same-sex couples.

The court gave the state legislature time to take action.

May 1993 – Apostle Boyd K. Packer gives an address at a meeting of the All-Church Coordinating Council and refers to homosexuality as one of the three major social problems that represent a danger to members.

Oct 1993 - Elder Dallin H. Oaks’ talk in General Conference says that “there are many political, legal, and social pressures for changes that confuse gender and homogenize the differences between men and women“.

Jan 1994 - The next Hawaii legislative session begins.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Catholic church decided to work together to influence the outcome of bills aimed at keeping marriage only between a man and a woman. Many “experts” were sent to Hawaii to testify, lobbyists were hired and worked behind the scenes.

The Hawaii legislature has competing bills to ban same-sex unions but none are successful because the Senate and House are unable to agree. They House versions of bills were more conservative than would pass in the Senate.

The legislature also creates the Commission on Sexual Orientation and the Law to study the issue of granting benefits to same-sex couples.

Feb 1994 – The First Presidency issues a letter that says the church is opposed to same-sex marriage. The statement says, “We encourage members to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials to preserve the purposes and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and to reject all efforts to give legal authorization or other official approval or support to marriages between persons of the same gender.”

April 1994 - Elder Packer gives a conference address that mentions “those confused about gender” and “that changes in the laws around marriage and gender threaten the family.”

May 1994 - President Benson passes away and Howard W. Hunter becomes president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

June 1994 - Sweden approves registered partnerships for same-sex couples

Feb 1995 - After another year of working with legislators, attorneys and others in Hawaii, the church announced it would file a petition in the Baehr case to “protect freedom of religion to solemnize marriages between a man and a woman under Hawaiian law.”

In the petition, the Church argued that if same-sex marriage was legalized, (1) it feared the state would revoke its minister’s licenses to marry couples. (2) the church would face lawsuits claiming its ministers discriminate based on sex as to whom they will marry. (3) the Church can help the Attorney General present a more complete case because the state had limited time & resources.

Nov 1994 - Elder James E. Faust gave a speech at BYU where he says that homosexuality is not biological or inborn and that same-sex marriage would unravel families and the fabric of human society.

Feb 1995 - The LDS church recruits members to work with and donate to Hawaii’s Future Today as a way to oppose efforts to legalize same-sex marriage in Hawaii.

March 1995 - President Hunter dies and Gordon B. Hinckley becomes president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

March 1995 - The court rules that Church can’t intervene in the Baehr case because the no law requires a minister to perform every marriage. The state simply permits ministers to perform marriages, and they choose which to do. The church may face frivolous lawsuits, just like any individual or entity. The state of Hawaii is capable of presenting its case without the church.

Mar 1995 - Elder Dallin H. Oaks begins work on an article on same-sex attraction that will be published in October. In the article, Elder Oaks says that the concept of “homosexual” or “lesbian” as a kind of person is incompatible with LDS theology. Rather the terms should be reserved for use as adjectives that refer to kinds of behavior.

1995 - LDS Family Services publishes the manual “Understanding and Helping Individuals with Homosexual Problems” in which is says “There is sufficient scientific research and clinical evidence to conclude that homosexuality is treatable and preventable.”

Mar 1995 - Utah passes the country’s first Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which says it will not recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states

Apr 1995 - The Hawaii legislature rewords the state statute on marriage to say one man and one woman.

Sept 1995 - The Hawaii Commission on Sexual Orientation and the Law is disbanded after an attempt to appoint Mormon & Catholic members to the Commission. It was seen as a violation of the separation of church and state. A second 7-member commission is set up using a different procedure.

Sept 1995 - The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles presents a joint “Proclamation on the Family.” This is read by President Hinckley in the General Relief Society Broadcast

The proclamation seems to be primarily based off of Elder Packer’s conference talk from 1993.

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I was a student at the Church schools in Rexburg & Provo from Jan 1993 to June 1997. The Church’s efforts to sway the legalization of marriage in Hawaii was covered frequently in the school newspapers.

We have had at least one apostle say that when the Family: A Proclamation of The World was issued, people were commenting that this is all common sense and why would they need to publish this.

Perhaps some people did say those things, but those people were not paying attention.

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The FanProc is a summary of LDS doctrine. People who say that the proclamation isn’t doctrine typically mean it hasn’t been voted on and officially declared scripture.

Anyone who says this proclamation isn’t important because it’s not officially doctrine are kidding themselves. It is referenced in general conference more than the scriptures and hangs in the homes of most married couples of the church.