#I’m critical cause I care it’s not cause of nostalgia ( a bit tho)

[gamingstar26]

Yes, you are exactly right about totk!! A lot of my own complaints come from the story (or lack thereof). To be honest, it's a rare LOZ game that has a particularly complex or nuanced story, but in my opinion, the best ones more than make up for it with their characters.

My favorite game that I've played is Skyward Sword, and I desparately want to play Wind Waker, because the both of them have such fun and compelling characters that I don't really mind the simplicity of the narratives (and Wind Waker even hints at nuance the other games won't dive into!)

Tears of the Kingdom tries to use plot driven storytelling, but... expects us to be far more invested than most of us ever really are. There's hints of character driven story in there, but it all just falls flat in the end and feels really superficial, ESPECIALLY when you look at how they treat the women in this game. Zelda is JUST the sacrificial maiden (again) whose only autonomy comes from choosing to give up her autonomy. Mineru is JUST the smart character who magically technobabbles the solutions. Purah is JUST the scientist that tells you where to go. Most indicative of Nintendo's attitude in this, to me, is with Riju. The way they treat her, it's clear they want her to fill the role of the sexy one, but they know that won't go well if they go all out because she was canonically a young child in the last game. Still really gross, Nintendo you're not subtle.

All this to say that TOTK thinks it's more clever than if is, and fails to pull its own weight in any meaninful way.

All of this!!

I’ll add a bit more that I forgot to add:

Yea usually zelda games have simple plots overall (with some expectations of course) but they do make up for it with memorable characters, etc, etc…

My favorite zelda game is Ocarina of Time cause of the lore (also gameplay of course) and the how interesting it is to me and the overall themes it goes into being tragic and relatable, even tho the surface story is simple overall.(the hero of time games being my favs cause of the story driven nature yet also have fun gameplay) Also other games like skyward sword having a good engaging story with good characters (Groose is the best), wind waker being a simple coming of age story, but also having the king and ganondorf both cling on to the past, etc.

Like you said totk thinks it’s clever and fails to deliver on making us invested in a meaningful and exciting narrative, in a way it’s using tropes from previous zelda games like oot, botw, SS and link to the past without even knowing why they worked in the first place. While failing to reuse tho tropes in a more unique way like previous games have done. It’s true there are hints of character driven story it’s just ignored or mentioned in a half assed way.

Also like I said in the post the lack of consequences with the main story at the end, like Link’s arm just being restored even tho furry rauru had said it was beyond saving, and zelda being recalled back to normal, so her “sacrifice” was not worth it at all (master sword is also worse somehow like wtf zelda)

I’ve also noticed the way totk treats the main women it’s very not good, like you said with zelda she’s just sacrificial maiden turned into a dragon, mineru being exposition dump lady cause that’s all she does tbh, also has the worst Sage ability in the whole game, etc.

zelda being the worst one. (Tbh botw/totk zelda is mixed overall she’s overrated) cause she’s dumb as hell didn’t even recognize that Ganondorf and Calamity Ganon could be related, she does nothing until furry rauru and sonia are dead. Also being a terrible princess, she didn’t even do any meaningful things to hyrule’s rebuilding efforts other than build a school and some small memorials and fuck around doing whatever the hell she was doing pre totk. Also she stole links house damn it.

there’s also the way the gerudo are treated in the zelda series as a whole, but that’s a whole other topic others have done better at that. Like with totk and botw (mostly totk) being helpless yet also warriors needing help from hylians to even survive in their own home?! Like how ingame they explain that zelda of all people was the one to help them get to know the desert and how to survive better wtf? And the secret heroine side quest end, how it’s just some random hylian guy to be the hidden 8th. (There goes the 7 sages and the 8th being the hero of time theory)

Also the way the botw events are treated. they just pretend that none of the ancient tech never existed at all and refuse to mention anything about botw, only in small passes. And the side quest with the Hateno school mentioning the original calamity.

The depths having potential to be better but we’re just empty and massive instead, I like the bargainer statues those are cool as an concept. And the sky islands being boring and copy paste the same few islands throughout.

Holy shit this game makes me write entire essays of complaints. I’m sorry if I repeat myself I’m terrible at explaining stuff at times.

Now I’m going to play the zelda games I’ve never finished to cleanse myself of totk.

[sentinelkelly]

“Disappointed Fans” Stopped  Being Fans Months Ago or Never was to Begin With

Rise of Iron: Same Shit, Different Day (the most tired and incomprehensible argument still being used). Ever since Rise of Iron released, a lot of people who claims to be fans of Destiny were up at arms about how lackluster Rise of Iron is. Not because it’s boring or anything, but because “its same thing.” Oh Lord... Where do I even begin?

The Story is Short

Whaa the main quest line is only 5 missions long, Kelly! It’s short like The Dark Below and House of Wolves! OH NO! The set of missions that you were only going to play three times before you play nothing but Strikes, Raid, and Crucible is short! BUNGIE PLEASE FIX THIS! Honestly, who the fuck cares? If Wrath of the Machine was available before even taking back the Iron Temple, a good portion of the Community would have 20+ completions without ever setting foot on Felwinter’s Peak. But Kelly, MUH LORE! I remember being ridiculed because I didn’t know Queen Mara was alive until Bungie released a statement about her fate. You people laughed and said, “lol It was stated in the Grimiore Cards!” You suddenly forgot about those? Your precious lore is on an app.

Another thing: In Main Story, you hunted the Black Heart and destroyed it. In the Dark Below, you hunted down Omnigul and Crota then killed them. In House of Wolves, you hunted down Skolas, captured, then killed him. In the Taken King, you hunted down Oryx and defeated him twice. In Rise of Iron, you stopped Fallen occupation in an important location of the Cosmodrome and stopped their bioengineering experiment from giving them upgrades that could have made them unstoppable. SIVA IS NOT A PERSON! HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE CONSIDERED “THE SAME THING?!” Whatever, let’s move on.

Wrath of the Machine

This is basically another point to the statement I made earlier. I haven’t heard anything too bad about the raid itself surprisingly. In fact, all I hear is “Rise of Iron is bad but I love the raid tho.” What are you, retarded? That's like saying, “I’m smart, but I’m a terrible test-taker” or “She has an ugly face, but have a nice ass so I’d still bang her.” That’s hypocritical! You just got finished belly aching over how short the story is, yet you enjoy the very thing you unlock after the story. And I bet you have more play time in the raid more than of the story.

One of the few criticisms I do hear about the raid is that bosses are bullet sponges again. ..What are you smoking? The whole raid was a combination of Bullet Sponge and Mechanic. Hell, I use “Bullet Sponge” loosely because some YouTubers/Streamers make Vosik and Aksis look like a joke. For people who aren’t that skilled or knowledgeable of the game, playing normally involves a lot of mechanics. Plus, Gjallarhorn, the God-Slayer of Year One, didn’t make the boss fights any easier, Dark-Drinker did!

Crucible is the Same Shit

Supremacy, Private Matches, and eSports compatibility aren’t new concepts in gaming, but it’s a first for Destiny. For Destiny fans, that’s all that matters. Hardcore Crucible players welcome new modes, whether they’ll play it a lot is up to them. Casual and Hardcore Crucible players alike always wanted a mode to have a friendly contest of skill with their friends without trying to lock a skirmish lobby. “Professional” Crucible players always wanted an eSports league to actually be considered a Pro. Pre-Rise of Iron Crucible was just a competitive mode.

Before I get hit with the terrible RNG post game drop rate, lemme just tell you something: SHUT UP! RNG giving shitty drops is normal, has always been apart of the game, and won’t be changing anytime soon. Yeah it’s annoying, but you’re not going to get an exotic every time you play, no matter how good you did. Deal with it.

Grinding is so “Easy” Now

I wouldn’t say that... I virtually have no life. Just throwing that out there. I take online classes, work around 20-24 hours per week part time, my girlfriend and close friends all live in other time zones, and usually have no interest in leaving my home. Reaching 400 Light was easy... for me! FOR ME! But that’s because I converted my free time into hours and hours into getting to 400 Light on all of my Xbox characters and at least 385 on my newly created PS4 characters. That and, unlike most people, I use LFG Forums and get raids and Nightfalls done weekly. Sometimes I play crucible. There’s people with more free time than I do and played since Day 1, but never peaked 375 Light on one character yet... To this day! I can’t fathom the thought of that! What can you possibly be doing to stay that low yet play everyday? The Heroic Strikes alone can get you up to 385 as of October 18th. People belly ached that reaching 310 Light and eventually 320 Light was difficult last year (which it was), unless you were lucky. King’s Fall was the only way to reach 320 if I remember correctly. The factions weren’t going to give 310 Light gear. Crucible was iffy. Court of Oryx did nothing really. People were pushed to do King’s Fall and Nightfalls every week to have a chance at high Light gear. Even then, it wasn’t guaranteed. The old infusion system wasn’t helping much either. Now, the max level cap is achievable without depending on a single activity, yet that’s still a problem because no lives like me play too much. The real problem is the changes were meant for the people who choose to play a social game like Destiny, but blames their social anxiety and lack of friends as the reason why they haven’t got to a certain light level yet. The problem is these people claim to love Destiny, but aren’t motivated to actually play it. Of course, lots of people have responsibilities stopping them from playing a lot of video games in general and I’m not referring to them.

One thing I love about Rise of Iron is how the drop rate of Strange Coins and reputation gains have increased. That’s beautiful in my opinion. The material and reputation grind is a bit easier now. That’s a good thing!

Microtrans--

I’m gonna stop you right there. It’s still not pay-to-win after a year and few months. If you don’t have money to spend or don’t want to spend your hard earned money, you don’t have to buy anything! But Kelly, I want that cool sparrow and Dab emote. So buy it! I have them and love them. Worth every penny. But why we gotta pay? Shit, Bungie said we were going to get free DLC and it never happened yet. It’s because of cheap whiny assholes like you. If you’re not going to contribute to the Free DLC Cause, shut the fuck up!

Where’s Vault of Glass and Crota’s End?

Wow! You do care about post game content! You was crying about the story, Bungie probably thought you’d just play the story missions over and over until the next game. Unfortunately, Bungie had the bright idea of keeping Wrath of the Machine (and King’s Fall to a certain extent) relevant. I for one want to them to come back too, but mind you, this DLC wasn’t supposed to be a thing at first. We should be playing Destiny 2 by now, but shit happens. I’m glad they’re held back on revamping Vault of Glass and Crota’s End. The Great Content Drought of 2016 was bad. I lived, other people got impatient and abandoned Destiny. Bungie still has the “Bring Back the Old Raids” card. Had they would’ve used it early, they may not have anything planned for post-SRL 2k16 Destiny. We’ll have to wait and see what they’ll do, but there’s still hope.

The Plaguelands is Just an Expanded Version of the Cosmodrome with Snow

So? That’s still technically not a copy and paste job. It’s still new and different with some respect.

Quality Wise, Rise of Iron is Living in the Taken King’s Shadow

I agree, but that’s a good thing! It’s a very beautiful thing. What if Rise of Iron was the best DLC to ever happen to the game? What if Rise of Iron was so great that everyone loves it, yet Destiny 2 flops... badly? People like me will try to see the good in Destiny 2, some might go back to Destiny 1, others might stop playing Destiny all together. The Taken King was a great DLC. At least if you love it so much, you can still play it. If being on the Dreadnaught gets you get excited, you can still go there. If fighting Oryx makes you cum in your underwear, you can still do that. However, there’s no guarantee if existing content is coming to Year 4. I rather Bungie save all the magic for the next game because I rather have the Taken King being considered the better DLC than Destiny 1 being considered the better game for reasons that aren’t nostalgia.

Conclusion

I’m not telling that you gotta love Rise of Iron like I do. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but make sure its rational. The bulk of the criticism are coming from people who clearly have stopped playing months ago or just started playing but allowed other people’s opinion affect their own. It’s clear that they’ve eternalized something from another DLC and are trying their best to not be opened to change (even though they claim that’s what they want). Saying Rise of Iron is the same is a down right lie. It shows that you haven’t put enough time into it. If it is the same, how the Taken King better? Shouldn’t they be equals if that was the case? There’s nothing wrong with admitting that Destiny doesn’t hold the same appeal to you as it have at whatever point. It’s okay to admit that you play occasionally just to see if you get invested again. It’s okay to admit that Rise of Iron is not your thing. You can’t say it’s the same thing when you weren’t there for the changes or choose not to acknowledge them.

[comicteaparty]

October 19th, 2017 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on October 19th, 2017, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on Alethia by Kristina Stipetic.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning. Today we are discussing Alethia by Kristina Stipetic~! (http://alethia.kstipetic.com/index.html) For those new to CTP, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer so pay them no mind if you wish~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! Each chat a top comment will be picked and featured on an ad for this chat, so let’s have a great discussion~!

With that said, let us begin with this first question~!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

Mharz

I'm here too!

RebelVampire

hey Mharz

Mharz

yay!

snuffysam

I am here as well

RebelVampire

welcome again @snuffysam ~!

Mharz

It's actually hard to choose there's so many good scenes here.

sskessa

ok i am here i have coffee

MathTans the Pun Prince

Given my tendency to veer towards humour, in terms of a favorite scene it would be when the weird Tetris block appeared, like whaaat. But speaking as an Educator a lot of the "it needs to make SENSE" from #5 rang true for me.

Also hullo. ^^

Mharz

LOOOOL that was funny!

RebelVampire

hi math and sskessa~!

snuffysam

#5 was probably my favorite chapter, at least

Mharz

like oh you're so good at this here's a nice big block. have fun!

MathTans the Pun Prince

The only way to trip up artificial intelligence.

RebelVampire

yeah i liked the random tetris block appearing. but also sympathized with the frustration cause i went through a tetris obsessed period and if the game rando dropped such a block on me id very much wtf

Mharz

Chapter 4 is my favorite so far

MathTans the Pun Prince

Getting sympathy from readers is good.

Mharz

I would've kicked the game.

but it's purpose is to make robots angry so pretty much the game is doing it's job well

Kabocha

Agreed, chapter 4 is DAMN GOOD. It was interesting to see how everyone moved to "ooph, yep, it's okay to let one robot be angry forever because why do we have to go through stress and frustration"

Mharz

yeaaahh

Kabocha

It felt like it was really a good commentary on how people are going to be lazy if they can feel like someone else is going to do the heavy lifting for them.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, I need to stick with #5 as a whole being my fave, just because of the education perspective that I took to it. The idea of tests deciding who's good enough to move on and up in the world, and the idea that to be seen as special people just "game" the system, rather than really trying to understand the problems with it.

Mharz

every chapter has a good message.

snuffysam

And then how they moved to "eh, it's easier to just do our jobs than argue"

MathTans the Pun Prince

I have no idea how something that that could even be storyboarded. Impressed.

Mharz

at the same time they don't want to feel they're useless

RebelVampire

i really liked the art in chapter 4 because of how differently the oil was depicted. cause sometimes it could look benign and just kind of normal but then other images are just immensely spook and make it look like this terrible horror substance

Mharz

yeah

MathTans the Pun Prince

Actually, the "cheating the system" bit in #5 when Jun reprogrammed it made me think of James Kirk and the Kobyashi Maru "no win" situation.

Kabocha

only Jun was making the system work logically

MathTans the Pun Prince

Agreed, interesting art on that. Horror vibe but not to the extent that I was put off.

Kabocha

It takes a special kind of programmer to really eff up basic logic problems

MathTans the Pun Prince

Here's the thing though, the programmers must be machines, right? They're all machines there.

Kabocha

there's reference to the creators though

and we have NO idea who the creators are

MathTans the Pun Prince

Well, sure, you'd want to program something like that in.

snuffysam

My interpretation was that the system was designed that way intentionally- for whatever reason, making smart people think they're dumb was the creators' intention.

Mharz

Man seeing those source code in chapter 5 gave me nostalgia in my college days

XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

Snuffy: Interesting. Like a vendetta or something.

RebelVampire

yeah i agree with the system was designed intentionally that way for reasons we cant yet comprehend.

Mharz

yeah

RebelVampire

cause all the cities seem to have a flaw of some sort

like a really big flaw that should not form naturally

Kabocha

could it be that over the course of running, each city ended up getting messed up?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Bad AC/DC conversion made some robots crazy.

Mharz

it was made messed up...

sskessa

i won't say anything unless you ask me directly

snuffysam

Maybe the creators just wanted to make a planet-wide factory (for silicon, oil, etc), so... they built sections with robots that could make those things and left them to it?

MathTans the Pun Prince

jumps 5 feet in the air An author! (and/or artist?)

Kabocha

Ahahahaha

:3

Mharz

XD

RebelVampire

breathe math, breathe

Mharz

She's the author

and the artist

MathTans the Pun Prince

I've been very jumpy lately.(edited)

sskessa

do not be alarmed

Kabocha

sskessa, why do they ship the dumbest robots off after Chapter 6? Mel seems to understand that they get sent out as they progress further along in their ignorance... Or is that spoiler territory?

I'm thinking they're sending them to another facility to do a thing, but what, I wonder

Mharz

oooh good one

sskessa

i have an answer and i don't know if it's spoilers, because i haven't decided how much info i'll put into the comic by the end.

MathTans the Pun Prince

If you send out your stupid people, you retain the smart ones.

snuffysam

How long are you planning on making the comic?

sskessa

maybe 10 years total. so far it's been 2 years

MathTans the Pun Prince

Dedication, woot.

RebelVampire

that is some extreme dedication. very impressive~!

Mharz

XD

sskessa

i think by the end of the whole comic, you'll understand what's happening in chapter 5

MathTans the Pun Prince

Note that when you're shipping robots, you need to be careful they don't become trees.

Mharz

in 10 years

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

Chapter 5 is one of my favourites

snuffysam

I meant chapter-wise- but I suppose 10 years is around 30 chapters?

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

I have the first 5 books and I have Chapter 2 and 5 in my bag all the time and show them around to people(edited)

Mharz

I like how everyone is being referred to in female pronouns.

MathTans the Pun Prince

I'm also massively impressed that there's a whole opening sequence for the comic.

Mharz

OMG

MathTans the Pun Prince

Mharz: I didn't even totally pick up on that.

Mharz

I LIKE THAT VIDEO

yeah I've noticed it

since chapter 1 everyone refers to everyone as "her" and "she"

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, no, I'm realizing it as you say it in retrospect.

sskessa

it seems like a lot of people have overlooked it, but it's true. everyone is female

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

Got to poof out becuase I got to do something but I love sskessa's stuff so much

Literally read and bought the books on the same day

XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

I suppose with them being kind of naked that eliminates the need to draw male bits, uhm.

Mharz

AWESOME

:y

MathTans the Pun Prince

(Do robots have those?)

snuffysam

They're also robots. So... that's not an issue regardless

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

Yeah I love the fact they are all robots too

snuffysam

Heh exactly

Mharz

I mean one lays egg so there's a possibility?

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

So it makes things really transparent

Superjustin of Time and Space

Hello!

Mharz

in case there are male robots

snuffysam

Were the people in chapter 1 robots? I wasn't quite sure...

MathTans the Pun Prince

Male robot is needed to make queen.

Superjustin of Time and Space

Wait

Mharz

Not in the first chapter tho

Superjustin of Time and Space

Robots can breed in this universe?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, when the one ripped off the tail there were electronic parts.

Even in Cahpter 1.

sskessa

all the characters in all chapters so far have been robots. the green ones in chapter 1 were just very early designs

Mharz

oooooh

Superjustin of Time and Space

Oh lol

Kabocha

I dunno that I'd call it breeding

snuffysam

Cool cool

Kabocha

synthesizing perhaps

MathTans the Pun Prince

Robots breed by becoming trees.

Mharz

yeah that's the more appropriate term

Superjustin of Time and Space

I agree

MathTans the Pun Prince

They're synthesizers. plays music

Mharz

LOL MATH

Kabocha

not the midi kind

RebelVampire

im curious about the fact that the robots feel pain. like particularly in the first chapter, why would you design it so a robot feels pain when synthesizing?

sskessa

XD

snuffysam

The chapter 2 specific robots reproduced by becoming trees though. Chapter 3's were made on an assembly line.

Mharz

all the robots have emotions tho

Kabocha

I dunno that I'd call it pain too much either; it's just electrical impulses that their systems might not have a great way of processing

snuffysam

That does raise a question of what the creators' intentions were...

Mharz

yeah

MathTans the Pun Prince

Does the protagonist? She's seemed pretty emotionless. (Granted, creepy teeth sometimes which makes her look sort of upset, but she's very logical.)

RebelVampire

well technically all human pain is just electrical impulses processed by the brain

Kabocha

:3

(I'm being pedantic okay)

Mharz

XD

Kabocha

I guess what I'm getting at is the pain is more like an interrupt though, or just an unexpected input from a not-great design

Mharz

it might be possible that Jun hasn't comprehended it yet since she has just been repaired.

Kabocha

Jun, quick, become an electrical engineer!

RebelVampire

thats a fairer way to put it

i think jun has emotions tho to a degree. i mean in the sixth chapter she does say "don't abandon me" which thats kind of reflective of an emotion

Mharz

yeah

Superjustin of Time and Space

Yeah

Oh of course I would yeah to a prior post

MathTans the Pun Prince

I suppose. She also grew a tail, I think. I'm not quite sure where that's going.

Superjustin of Time and Space

Thanks Discord mobile for not scrolling down

snuffysam

Yeah she seemed pretty attached to her friend in Chapter 2 (to the point where she's afraid of someone leaving her again in chapter 6)

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

I also love that the name came from the location of where names are extremely important

Mharz

and she was concerned when Mel was crying and that she might turn into a tree like camphor

MathTans the Pun Prince

Snuffy: Good point on that callback.

Mharz

tho I found those lines a bit funny. sorry.

"Don't cry! You might turn into a tree!"

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, it was the reaction to the tree thing that was funny. Like, tree, whatchootalkinbout?

Kabocha

sskessa -- do the names have any actual importance, or are they randomly assigned characters?

(like, does the string eventually indicate that there is a function or assignment for that?)

sskessa

the names from chapter 5 are randomly assigned, alternating between consonant and vowel

RebelVampire

yeah i agree the tree bit was also sort of funny cause of course mel doesnt know wtf that means

Kabocha

Aaaah, okay

MathTans the Pun Prince

Is Y a vowel? ^.^

sskessa

but "jun" has a personal meaning to me and i intended to name her that since the beginning

Mharz

and Jun probably got an assumption that robots turn into trees when they cry because that's what happened to the first robot she saw crying

MathTans the Pun Prince

I feel like I want to put an 'e' on the end of the name. ^.^

snuffysam

I think the story structure is interesting. Chapters 2-5 had basically no callbacks to earlier chapters (except Jun's goal of making the cities more efficient). Suddenly, Chapter 6 has a bunch, with the first character carrying over between chapters, and referencing the turning into a tree.

(besides Jun, who carries over every chapter)

Mharz

I really like how they were all stand-alone

well almost(edited)

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, I'm reminded of some of those old TV shows where you have the central character (like Columbo or Kojak or whatever) and the entire cast around them is different. So it doesn't really matter where you start reading/watching.

Kabocha

I think the callbacks in Chapter 6 were appropriate, though, since Jun had someone to carry that over with. It's also a good reminder of what came before, too.

RebelVampire

QUESTION 2. Alethia features a world where scattered groups of robots all live together functioning in different ways. While it is clear that the robots had creators of some sort, they are nowhere to be found. Why were the robots created in the first place? How did the world get to be the way it is? Why do the robots live so scattered even though some areas seem to have transportation to and from different places? What was the original purpose of each factory city?(edited)

Kabocha

insufficient data

RebelVampire

XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's all happening in their minds.

snuffysam

Was it a planet-wide factory? Some sort of social experiment by the creators? Only time will tell, I think...

Mharz

pretty sure whoever the creator is they didn't program the robots to have knowledge of the outside

or they probably have

but they never consider leaving(edited)

MathTans the Pun Prince

What I'm kinda wondering about it who maintains the power station(s). And who built THAT (them).

Mharz

ooor they have limited capabilities

snuffysam

The robots in chapter 5 knew there was a world outside their city

Mharz

cus camphor can only take 800 steps before running out of batteries

MathTans the Pun Prince

Well yes. So different power systems but there seems to be compatability.

RebelVampire

i think all the robots besides the tree ones know. cause i recall there being a few other times jun arrived and the robots were like "oh we dont usually see outsiders"(edited)

snuffysam

The robots in chapter 2 knew there was a vast world, but they couldn't visit it.

MathTans the Pun Prince

(Are there AC and DC robots?)

Mharz

oh yeah that's true

Kabocha

Each city seems to explore an aspect of humanity or society and the contradictions with each theme. You have a group that's expected to rely on one person to continue to carry on the future, even at great personal pain. You have another group that's expected to pair up, but... I mean, not everyone wants to do that! Come on. (Poor Camphor, though.) Another yet is willing to shunt the work on another person -- teamwork and loyalty gone awry. And then another is willing to forgo actual learning in favor of passing a test.

Mharz

poor camphor

RebelVampire

yeah part of me wonders if the creators are doing this as a huge social experiment

Mharz

-_-

snuffysam

(and the robots in chapter 3, which create separate social castes based on something completely arbitrary)

RebelVampire

to see which society functions best

MathTans the Pun Prince

I dunno, camphor didn't seem good at seeing the big picture. Like, upon finding out that everyone was trying to keep her there, she just said she'd leave.

Mharz

bottomline is not all systems are perfect.

snuffysam

Chapter 4 is especially interesting, because the major "flaw" only came up recently.

MathTans the Pun Prince

True. No system is really.

Kabocha

I kinda read the tree city as being a sorta high-level commentary on sexual expectations in society without going there? Camphor strikes me as wanting to do their own thing, and was essentially the only person in the society that was ace, but being pressured into pairing off. ...I dunno, each chapter sticks with you in a different way and the interpretation's gonna be pretty subjective.

Chapter 4 felt like a giant "fuck you" to most workplaces loooool

sskessa

you can use female pronouns for all the characters

MathTans the Pun Prince

Okay, related to the recent question, crazy theory time about "Robots had creators".... Jun is one of the creators. She was cast out and had her memory taken because she didn't agree with the creators any more. Or possibly she volunteered, in order to see if the systems they all put in place were working and didn't want to be biased by knowing them.

Kabocha

(oh crap, it's already 8:30 and we haven't had any crazy conspiracy theories about teh plot yet)

MathTans the Pun Prince

Yeah, definitely subjective interpretations for some of it. That's an interesting one though, Kabocha.

snuffysam

Nothing crazy yet, no. We have had some theories.

MathTans the Pun Prince

(Jun's a SPY I tell you... deep undercover.)

snuffysam

"Jun is one of the creators" makes as much sense as anything else...

What are your thoughts on the tail?

Kabocha

Long live the queen? :3

snuffysam

Yeah, I'm thinking it's a callback to chapter 1 in some capacity...

sskessa

haha, you're the second person to suggest that

RebelVampire

jun is clearly just going through robot puberty

sskessa

should i keep quiet wrt to theories?

snuffysam

yeah probably

MathTans the Pun Prince

Up to you, sskessa.

It'll be on the web later.

sskessa

alright, i'll keep quiet. you'll find out everything eventually

RebelVampire

yeah these chats do get archived and the chat history is always readable

but its largely up to you

weve had chats with spoilers, had some with no spoilers

MathTans the Pun Prince

The tail is to help with swimming, obvs.

Kabocha

Oh no, the next city is a water level

MathTans the Pun Prince

Better call a plumber.

RebelVampire

actually

thatd be interesting if that was the reason somehow

that there was adaption for the city coming up

and somehow a tail was needed

MathTans the Pun Prince

bows

(good spin)

snuffysam

she was pretty broken when the chapter 1 robots found her. maybe this is self-repair?

Kabocha

Jun is slowly changing each chapter, hehe

She's truly an admirable AI

MathTans the Pun Prince

I feel like she had enough power previously to do evolution though. So why trigger it now?

snuffysam

distance from her home?

MathTans the Pun Prince

Oh, sskessa, in case I forget to ask later - Chinese translation, is that you? It's an interesting language choice.

Snuffy: Fair point.

Could be getting close to home with the other creators.

Mharz

What I missed? Our power went out

RebelVampire

you missed the secrets of life being revealed

sorry Mharz

Mharz

Dang

MathTans the Pun Prince

Jun is actually an acquatic goddess.

Kabocha

Don't worry, it was only applicable to robots

Mharz

That's not Jun's final form

sskessa

the chinese translation is done by my friend, but i read over it and give feedback

MathTans the Pun Prince

That's neat.

sskessa

we discuss the subtleties of all the word choices, so everything in the chinese translation is definitely intentional

Kabocha

That's neat though

Mharz

power's back woo!

MathTans the Pun Prince

I would think the "characters in a name" thing would translate differently.

sskessa

haha, well, it was very important to me that her name be "jun" so i had to keep the latin letters

Mharz

interesting

MathTans the Pun Prince

That's fair.

sskessa

this isn't a spoiler, she is named after my favorite singer, jun togawa.

Mharz

ooooh

MathTans the Pun Prince

With synthesizer backup...

Mharz

jun and mel will make a band

snuffysam

@sskessa, in the animated OP- how much direction did you give Ann Mendenhall? With regards to referencing future events, for instance.

thanks discord, that's totally what i wanted after the @ symbol

MathTans the Pun Prince

Spice Girls, Unplugged.

sskessa

hm....i believe it was $1000

i had a sponsor

Mharz

whoa

that's so cool

MathTans the Pun Prince

O.o

Mharz

the she animated everything herself?(edited)

snuffysam

whoa dang

sskessa

i told someone about my project and he gave me the money for it, i gave it to ann. she animated everything single-handedly. i drew the backgrounds

snuffysam

did you give her storyboards or something?

sskessa

sometimes, yes.

Mharz

kudos to her

it's very well made

sskessa

she is very good, you can commission her :3

Mharz

I wish I have the money

I can do it myself but I really just don't have the time and patience

snuffysam

it was certainly worth it. the OP got me hooked

sskessa

for example, i gave her this reference for the tower

snuffysam

oh neat

Mharz

oh wow that's cool

how long did she take to animate everything?

sskessa

a year

Mharz

omg

well it's very well made so it's worth it

:' D

RebelVampire

QUESTION 3. This comic deals with a lot heavy themes concerning collectivism, individuality, guilt, forgiveness, peer pressure, and much more. Which theme and story resonated with you the most and why? What other sorts of storylines and themes do you think are possible? Are there any characters you think it’d be interesting to see again? What do you think the comic’s overall theme and/or message is?

sskessa

haha, it's not like anyone knew we were making it, so no pressure to rush

Mharz

I totally salute her.

sskessa

listens intently to the answers to this question

Mharz

is thinking...

MathTans the Pun Prince

As a teacher, for me it's still got to be #5. With the assuming books are right and not doing proper thinking, or in the one case needing to understand the REASONING, which I always tell students is SO key, like, don't just memorize an algorithm. But there it's taken to the extreme, looking for reason in something that has no system of logic.

Or a continually changing system of logic anyway.

I'm reminded of a Janway quote, "You can use logic to justify almost anything. That is its power, and its flaw."(edited)

Mharz

not all truths can be found in books.

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

I love the backwards logic of Chapter 5

Some of it is really funny

sskessa

part of it was inspired by reading someone in a reddit debate say "circular reasoning doesn't bother me"

Mharz

that is some twisted logic

MathTans the Pun Prince

The math teacher in me is screaming.

snuffysam

The comic so far seems to have a theme of "people will let their emotions/biases lead them to make irrational decisions"?

MathTans the Pun Prince

As far as other themes, I could see addressing keeping something for sentimentality reasons even though it has no "practical" purpose. Or maybe even a "hoarder" issue, like someone who just collects a bunch of stuff not really for any reason. Not sure where one might take that though, would need to be careful.

snuffysam

Though that could change as Jun's worldview changes in the coming chapters

Ooh, good one

RebelVampire

snuffysam: i like that as an overall interpretation for the comic

seems pretty accurate

MathTans the Pun Prince

Bias would keep anyone in business forever. There's so many of them.

Feather, Duke of Hot Leaf Juice

Also the best part of that statment

because they are robots

Robots usually are the most logical things when people think about them

MathTans the Pun Prince

ALL the bias, in wheel form. (credit at the bottom)

Mharz

Some knowledge and beliefs we have came from our environment and peers

sskessa

wow beautiful

snuffysam

Question is- in situations like Chapter 3, was it somebody's idea to split up the classes of robots, or was that the creators' design?

RebelVampire

i think for me its also #5 that stuck with me the most because of the themes of peer pressure and blind adherance. like the ending to the chapter hit me really hard. cause i liked all the touch about education and books not being right etc. but what hit me is that mel was right and that for mel it was like watching a train wreck happening and being unable to do that. and i felt thats a good parallel for what life sometimes feels like. where we can see the inevitable outcome of something for a person or a society, and yet there is absolutely nothing we can do because norms prevent others from fully embracing differing perspectives.

Mharz

yeah

I can relate to that too

MathTans the Pun Prince

Good one.

Maybe creators put in contingency plans, Snuffys?

sskessa

@RebelVampire that's definitely what i was thinking about when i wrote it. thinking about friends of mine

Mharz

like I was trying to figure out the logic within a certain book but peers just keep telling to just believe it just like that withoug any concrete proof as to why.

RebelVampire

yeah but to be fair, all knowledge exists only because we agree on the answers. so in a sense education will always have a sense of peer pressure in only believing the most accepted thing

MathTans the Pun Prince

2+2 = 5

Kabocha

in certain cases where you have a float error....

Mharz

no math

MathTans the Pun Prince

Rootbeer float error. "2" is too large.

Kabocha

2 is perfect what are you talking about

Mharz

2 is a company 3 is a crowd

MathTans the Pun Prince

Actually 6 is the first perfect number. Divisors are 1, 2, 3 and 1+2+3 = 6.

It's a real thing. So are friendly numbers.

sskessa

so with that in mind, sometimes the only way to escape peer pressure, which is not always consciously recognized, is to physically leave a group of people

MathTans the Pun Prince

sskessa: Good point. Which is hard when we want to fit in somewhere.

Mharz

oh yes definitely

I mean I agree to you both

sskessa

oh, 2+2=5 is a theme in "notes from underground"

snuffysam

It's also why it's so interesting that Lak chose to stay behind.

sskessa

to answer the question myself, the next story arc is going to be the one that is the most personal to me so far.

MathTans the Pun Prince

There. Are. Four. Lights. (Okay, now I've referenced original series, Voyager and TNG. Can I get the others in?)(edited)

snuffysam

Looking forward to it!

RebelVampire

oh that sounds exciting

Kabocha

What's the general synopsis, sskessa~?

(of the arc)

sskessa

@MathTans the Pun Prince XD

MathTans the Pun Prince

About friendship, maybe? Given there's two of them now.

RebelVampire

i wonder if the robots will know how to "fix" the fix jun used in chapter 5. or if they will actually have to have correct answers now. cause jun's fix was so simple unless you had looked at the code before you might miss that single punctuation that changes everything

Mharz

forgot a semi-colon, got 1000 errors

trust me I can relate

sskessa

mel and jun arrive in the movie factory and meet the most famous actress of robot world (who you've seen before). jun does not understand the function of movies. we meet the "underground robot," the most unpopular robot in the movie factory who writes anti-literature. the character is my personal response to dostoyevsky's "notes from underground"

a book which i have very mixed feelings about

Mharz

weren't mel watching a movie in the transport thing?(edited)

sskessa

yes

snuffysam

and they had movies in chapter 4

Mharz

oooh

snuffysam

very interested to see where that goes!

Kabocha

oooh! :3 So the actress is one they saw in that movie, then?

RebelVampire

QUESTION 4. Jun, as the main character comes to be named, is on a mission to travel from city to city and correct their inefficiencies. However, there remains many questions about Jun in regards to this. Who created Jun and for what purpose? Is Jun’s mission a result of free-will or is it something driven by underlying programming? Should Jun even be fixing the cities, or would it be better if Jun left them the way they are? What do you think will be Jun’s ultimate fate?

sskessa

@Kabocha yes, and she is the main character of the next arc.

snuffysam

So far, it seems Jun's goal is just the result of something someone in chapter 3 suggested.

maybe that was her remembering her true purpose?

Mharz

I think Jun weren't meant to do that but after what happened to camphor, somehow triggered her to go and fix the cities.

snuffysam

for the most part, she seems to just be exploring. the only reason she keeps fixing cities is because they're all broken.

MathTans the Pun Prince

Jun will meet herself. If you travel far enough, you meet yourself, and that's totally possible with robots.

Mharz

and she did get the idea of "evaluating efficiency" on chapter 3

RebelVampire

i feel like that is kind of her purpose tbh, to evaluate efficiency. which makes the next arc very interesting cause from a practical standpoint movies dont really have purpose. i mean they arguably further culture, but from a productive standpoint they dont have a point(edited)

snuffysam

Mel watches movies. perhaps she will (attempt to) convince Jun of their worth...

Mharz

will she understand the sense of it tho

MathTans the Pun Prince

She'll be the new star. Paid in batteries. Much usefulness.

RebelVampire

jun will learn to have fun O_O go to cool robot starlet pool parties

Mharz

maybe at the end, jun will have full human emotions

sorry I'm dumb

snuffysam

thats what the tail is for. pool parties!

Mharz

omg

sskessa

laughs but you know...i already think she does

have full emotions XD because i am also a very dry person

Mharz

she does but she hasn't realized it fully

MathTans the Pun Prince

That doesn't sound dumb.

Like, having something to be building towards in terms of understanding emotions. I have emotions, doens't mean I always understand them, like why am I crying at a certain point.

Mharz

^

sskessa

that's a fair point

Mharz

maybe she'll fall in love with someone

sskessa

she already fell in love, back in chapter 3

MathTans the Pun Prince

She'll meet herself then fall in love with herself.

Mharz

:0

MathTans the Pun Prince

A bit curious about her design, incidentally. Different from the other robots. Wider legs, for one thing. Wonder if that means something.

sskessa

what? isn't it normal to be aroused by beautiful abstract concepts? maybe it's just me

snuffysam

Jun efficiency

sskessa

exactly.

snuffysam

OTP

Mharz

XD

sskessa

seriously though, i want her to have a girlfriend at some point. if i can manage to write it well.

MathTans the Pun Prince

I personify mathematics functions as cute females, so I'm the wrong person to ask.

Kabocha

I think however you write it, it'll be fine RebelVampire

to be fair as someone who also likes to find the most efficient way possible to do things, i cant blame jun for falling in love with efficiency XD

Mharz

yeah

MathTans the Pun Prince

Will they ever meet a non-female robot, I wonder. (Not necessarily male.)

sskessa

no

Mharz

that's interesting

snuffysam

now i'm curious- is there a reason you decided on an all-female world?

Kabocha

They're robots

MathTans the Pun Prince

Females are better, but aside from that.

sskessa

got tired of reading about male characters

snuffysam

fair enough

Mharz

I somehow can relate

not that I have anything against male characters

snuffysam

now that i think about it, pretty much everything i've written or drawn over the past couple years has a female lead...

for basically the same reason

Mharz

I love female leads

MathTans the Pun Prince

I just prefer females. Why would I write about males, I am one, that's not so interesting to me.

Mharz

I love female leads

If you can't tell yet.

MathTans the Pun Prince

The site navigation is interesting too, just to mention it. Having all the strips laid out on one page, scrolling down, rather than page to page to page. Took a while to load, but then could read a lot at once.

I love female lead love.

Mharz

:y

RebelVampire

yeah i like that the scrolldown format for each chapter kind of emphasizes their connected but individual storylines

sskessa

yes, so, the corollary to all characters being female means all characters are lesbians

snuffysam

Navigating between chapters is a bit of a pain. As far as I can tell, the only way to do so is to go back to the chapter list?

sskessa

hm. good point. i will put a "next chapter" button at the bottom of each chapter

Mharz

oh yes please.

snuffysam

Thanks!

Mharz

I did have to scroll back up to get to the next chapter

MathTans the Pun Prince

I just hit my "back" button.

snuffysam

...your browser doesn't have a back button?

lol

sskessa

as for that format, i did my last comic as single-page navigation and it always took so long to load. this way you can leave the comic to load for 5 minutes and then read it all at once

snuffysam

no yeah, that part's great

Mharz

a chapters list and next/previous chapter at the bottom should suffice(edited)

snuffysam

honestly a next button alone would be fine for most purposes. but more is better in this case, i think.

sskessa

will do

Mharz

in case you want to get back at something

MathTans the Pun Prince

The layout's good too on individual pages, works with the scroll down format.

Mharz

I kinda had to go back to chapter 1 to verify if Jun had a tail initially

sskessa

i will try to clear up the tail question in the next arc. i don't intend it to be too mysterious

Mharz

I just like to think that she's evolving into a final form

XD

Respheal

o_o -goes back to chapter 1 to see if there's a tail- (Also hiiiiiiii popping in late)

snuffysam

her head isn't enough of a trash can yet

Mharz

no she doesn't

snuffysam

hi Respheal!

Respheal

Okay xD Was doubting my memory there

Mharz

XD

oh trust me that was me last night too

like "wait, did she have a tail?" O_O

sskessa

hi!

MathTans the Pun Prince

It's not a tail, it's the start of a third leg. ^.^ (Actually, yeah, all the robots look human-ish. Which helps to relate to them, though I wonder if we'll run into a place where they don't.)

"Why do you have two heads?" "Why don't you?"

Mharz

the queen isn't

I mean she looks like an adorable dinosaur

MathTans the Pun Prince

True that.

Mharz

with a badass spiky hair

(edited)

Kabocha

They are probably designed to better imitate their creators

:3

snuffysam

of course, we don't know the creators are human

they could just be more robots

MathTans the Pun Prince

Their creator... V'ger! (Okay, no more Trek references.)

snuffysam

robots all the way down

Mharz

XD

Kabocha

recursive robots

RebelVampire

but somewhere down the line thered be non machine based life. cause machine based life doesnt just pop up from nothing

its called manmade for a reason

Mharz

yeah

MathTans the Pun Prince

Beats cursive robots. Walking around like @(#(@#.

Mharz

LOOOL

Kabocha

Shh, the creators clearly had a design in mind

RebelVampire

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party is now complete~! Thank you everyone so much for joining this week’s chat~! That being said, if you would like to continue discussing the comic, we encourage you to do so~! We want to give a big thank you to Kristina Stipetic, as well, for volunteering Alethia for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support Kristina Stipetic’s efforts. If you have questions, concerns, or suggestions about CTP, please feel free to PM me, or e-mail me at RebelVampire@startfaire.com.

With that said, next week’s Comic Tea Party will focus on Magnetic North by Kat Gemmill. Please use this week to read as much of the comic as you would like. Hope to see you next Thursday (October 26th) from 5PM to 7PM PDT~! Until then~! Comic: http://www.magneticnorthcomic.com/