#I would confess to him and I’m an atheist who grew up Protestant

[jessicawwcaww]

Father mulcahy kind of the character of all time. He’s a priest. He boxes. He’s cute as a button. He’s in with the black market. He’s in with the black market to get goods for orphans. He regularly fleeces his unit playing poker. For the orphans. His sister the Sister plays basketball. He tends bar so people will confess to him. He got drunk to preach about temperance. He says jocularity. Southern Baptist services are too forceful for him. He’s threatened violence on multiple occasions. Lesbians want him

[masterheartsxiii]

Notes from mass 9/20/20

A note before I start. This was my first time at mass by myself, as a non-catholic. It was also my first time taking notes. I am looking to be challenged and hold discussion on my thoughts.

I grew up non-denominational, I didn’t know much about Catholicism other than that they worshiped Mary and stuff (things I found out were wrong later). Eventually I started spending time with my dear friend, who was catholic. She and I went back and forth as she brought forward points about catholic faith, and I would pose counter arguments. There was a point where she seemed close to snapping away towards a different denomination, closer to mine. But then, she suddenly snapped back. Her connection to her Catholic faith became like steel, forged in the heat of questioning. This fire fascinated me. I now know that she had an advisor who helped temper that steel into its current shape on this site, but that doesn’t change that she found something about Catholicism that resonated, or else no amount of advice would have caused it. So I had to know. I have to know. What about Catholicism draws one closer to God even when fought against with more Protestant views. For that reason, I have begun going to Catholic Mass, starting now due to covid, and long to have my answers about God and the universe answered.

Now the notes proper:

I arrived late due to traffic and going to a new church. Will have to prepare for that earlier. Due to this I had to sit in the back outside of the church proper.

Gospel was on the parable of the men who were hired at different times yet paid the same amount.

>An interesting parable. One that would easily reflect on any time period, and all have surely felt similar.

Homily begins:

Talking about vacation?

>Not really sure how this all connects

The priest went to Maine

>I get he’s trying to relate this, but talking about vacation as your connection seems odd during times where quarantine is supposed to be in place.

Got distracted on how to take notes

>I was trying to figure out how best to take notes by looking at the examples my dear friend has posted in the past. I resolved then to get a notebook and have since done so so that my notes can be taken and translated later.

The priest gets back to the parable

>Finally. I guess the connection was between lobster farmers and field workers, but that seems thin.

The fairness is what we focus on, but the point of the parable is gods love.

>Well that seems obvious. But it has an important point to make, and right as I thought that he continued

Christianity, like field work, can be back breaking.

>Living with an atheist, can agree.

We need to save all people no matter when in their life. (But what rewards are there besides the end?)

>So the parenthesis are the thoughts I had at the time that I felt needed to be jotted down. These carrots are post church reflections. But it is a common thought. How often have I gone to God and said “I’ve done all this for you. I’ve been here since I was a child? Why am I not getting benefits. Why don’t my wishes carry more weight? My god, my god, why have you forsaken me.”

We might harbor feelings that we’ve been unfairly treated (no rewards to be in early)

>precisely. We feel that just because someone “got on board late” they shouldn’t be given equal treatment. But that’s not right. We should want the best for everyone. To hold someone to a standard of when they became a follower, why do we assume that makes them lesser? Isn’t that judgement? There is only one Judge, and it isn’t any of us on Earth.

Why do we think that? Why do we feel it’s “better” that we wish we could have joined later.

>That brings up an interesting conundrum. Often times we think the best way, even as Christians is to fall into this trap. We say “well it’s alright if I break this rule as long as I ask forgiveness” but that could devolve into a whole tangent of what is right vs what feels good. I’d be happy to discuss that more in the comments or a dm.

Better to rejoice that we added more people to the kingdom of heaven.

>On this we can easily agree. It is a victory to add someone, but where does it end? Do we check in and make sure they’re actually living it out? Surely just getting them to confess isn’t the end. That gets into circle of control vs circle of influence. Something my therapist and I have been working through. But while my circle of control is small with a larger circle of influence, an interesting irony is that God’s circle of control is massive, but he chooses to only use his influence, less we become puppets. Idk. This is where my mind wanders to.

Started talking about donations? That felt out of place.

>Yeah I guess just because it’s nearing the end of the fiscal year, it’s time to bring in money. It was an unfortunate time for me to first visit as I’m sure it sounded more greedy than intended, but it did feel weird that they ended the homily with it. Is that normal. I have no comparative reference.

I left before communion as I don’t feel I can go to it yet as a non catholic (why so isolating?)

>Something I’ve always wrestled with. The requirement to be catholic before receiving communion. Jesus said “let the little children come into me”. He didn’t require them to vow to him first. Jesus dined with beggars, crooks, and tax collectors. He never required them to be a part of his church before then. And then of course there’s the fact that is in spirit the body and blood of Christ. I grew up with communion being symbolic, not a true transformation. For a long time I viewed that as a weird interpretation. But I’ve seen it. The times I went to mass with my dear friend in the past I saw the power that the reverence and respect the priest placed on it. The Meal is more than a symbol, but I believe that is only to those that believe it so. My literal brain has trouble seeing past the veil, but I did for one fleeting moment and it’s stuck with me.

I felt so alone. How does one connect to god at these things? He is held so far above. How can one reach.

>I’ve never gone to mass by myself. I’ve always had at least my dear friends long side me. Ins one ways that was a detriment. After all, if ones focus is torn between two places, can one truly grasp Heaven’s message for you? But on the other side, without anyone beside me at church, how am I to parse these feelings. I am a Stranger in a Strange Land, and without a spiritual guide, how am I to reach it. I fear my journey will be impossible alone. I will pray on this.

One final note: the priest says it feels like the devil has really had his way with this year. It has been a hard year for sure, but how much is this the work of devils and how much is the work of man. The age old question does the devil really exist: or is it just the Bible’s embodiment of man’s free will, given personification. May pursue this more.

>A thought I’ve had many times. One I’d love to discuss. The Bible has many allegories. Might the devil be one as well. After all humans with free will don’t need something bad influencing them. That’s actually the problem with some other denominations. The ones that make “Hell Houses” the prescribe everything to “demons” and that takes humanity’s free will out of the equation. The devil may not exist. There may instead just be humanity’s desire to turn away from blinding light. Thoughts?

[accident-prone-agustin]

Task #6 — Soundtrack to Your Life: Create a playlist that reflects a significant story moment for your character

I said I had 3 ideas for this task so I’m doing all three. Can’t resist dropping new character lore, so! Here’s the second!

This one is a playlist for Agustin deconstructing his faith and coming up an atheist -- this is a secret he holds close to his chest, he knows this would rock the boat in his family. Keeping the peace and going to church like a good Christian to keep his family happy is more important to him. More than that, Catholicism is heavily tied to Avaloran cultural identity. If he were to openly reject that, that would mean losing a big part of his community and a lot of his status in the local Avaloran refugee community and that’s something he’s not willing to do.

I’ve already done a ton of commentary on Franny’s task so on this one I’ll probably just highlight fitting lyrics

CW: Discussion of religion

playlist

1. Everybody Knows by Leonard Cohen

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed Everybody knows the war is over Everybody knows the good guys lost Everybody knows the fight was fixed The poor stay poor, the rich get rich That's how it goes Everybody knows

2. Losing My Religion by R.E.M.

Every whisper, of every waking hour I'm choosing my confessions Trying to keep an eye on you Like a hurt, lost and blinded fool, fool Oh no I've said too much

3. Believe Me by James And The Shame*

I think you want an answer I'm not prepared to give 'Cause the one I gave you said that, that ain't it

Must be something that I want Fame and fortune or at least a little jaunt It may seem too cut and dry But I just found some things I could not brush aside Now if you'll oblige I don't think it's true I'm not asking you to agree I'm just asking you to believe me You say my heart was never true That might say more 'bout you

*If any of y’all like the comedy duo Rhett and Link? This is Rhett’s solo country album! It’s all about his deconstruction of his Christian faith and it’s AWESOME

4. The New World Order by Defiance, Ohio

This is also a Bush Era protest song so it has Bush Era political references

They say the new world order is just God's master plan But if the blueprint calls for some to stave don't blame God's right hand man

...

God is great God is good and let us thank God for our food We may well have more than we need and God may well have more mouths to feed

But God is great God is good and someday soon he'll feed you too cause once we have our yachts and crowns God planned some food to trickle down

So just keep those thoughts holy and be patient and be pious And hallelujah you gotta encourage those prayers hosanna in the highest

5. God Must Hate Me by Catie Turner

I'll let 'em take accountability For everything that's wrong with me Can't hold myself responsible So I blame the metaphysical If Jesus died for all our sins He left one behind, the body I'm in Same hands that made the moon and the stars Got carpal tunnel and forgot some parts

6. Give A Damn by James and The Shame

Ain't it funny how some guys who lived Well before your time Could make you think what you think God thinks about wine That kinda thing will draw you in if you are like me Why live for the here and now, when you've got eternity? They say a life unexamined is a life that's not worth living But I'm pretty sure I've grayed my beard with all these fucks I've given I can't help but give a damn but damn, sometimes I wish I didn't First time I heard of the great beyond I was surely smitten I could be one of the chosen few, be on the front lines I've got something in my pocket that'll give sight to the blind I grew up and read some stuff outside of the good book Shaken to my very core I took another look

7. Icarus by Bastille

Look who makes their own bed, lies right down within it And what will you have left? ... Standing on the cliff face, highest fall you'll ever grace It scares me half to death Look out to the future, but it tells you nothing So take another breath

8. Adam Was A Man by Violent Femmes

Adam was a man Just like you or me He did not do what he's supposed to And he cries internally

There's horror in Paradise In the garden of delight Where sorrow can paralyze The will to want the right

...

Oh, God was God Not like you or me He always does and he does just because So we hope he stays so friendly

9. In Vain by James and the Shame

There's quite a few things you don't seem to mind I'm trying to figure out just where you draw the line 'Cause watching people die seems to be fine But god forbid a nipple or a Jesus Christ ... But maybe that commandment about using the Lord's name Is about a lot more than what you say

So much done in Jesus' name Seems to me to be a god damn shame Are you sure the savior came So the righteous would all vote the same Tell me who's the one using his name in vain

Nothing rallies the troops like a building campaign Or gathering to worship with a rockstar on the stage Or traveling cross the ocean with life saving supplies So brown people will know they worship the devil in disguise

...

So much done in Jesus' name Seems to me to be a god damn shame Are you sure the savior came To pledge allegiance to the USA So you could find the perfect parking space To help decide that supreme court case

10. Old Letters by James and the Shame

I still remember when we used to talk You never said much, but I knew what you thought 'Cause you wrote it down for me long ago I read your letters to keep from feeling alone There's not just one thing I could point to That began to push me away from you All I can say is that I changed It was just like you to stay the same Stay the same My favorite thing was how right you made me feel You let me sleep while you took the wheel But when I woke up, you were nowhere to be seen Can't help but think if it was all just me I dusted off some of those old notes And tried to recapture that sensation of hope Page after page, my eyes all a blur But I could not feel you in any of those words Maybe we'll meet again on different terms When those old ways have finally been unlearned I might find out that I had you wrong And you've just been waiting on me all along

[viduamor-moved]

do u have any headcanons abt natasha's religion? i'm always interested how marvel chara muns tie in their muse's religion w/ the myth based nature of the marvel universe, and with natasha's cultural background it's especially interesting! xoxo

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.     thank you  SO MUCH  for sending this in !!!      & in fact,     i do !!     i’ve been meaning to write about it for … more than a year,   honestly but just never got around to it.      but that’s changing   ————     SHORT  ANSWER  :   I  SEE  NATASHA  AS  AGNOSTIC,      with a tendency towards belief in some kind of higher power.     whether that be  GOD  or  FATE,      she has yet to decide.

but i’m sure you’re here for the long answer.      IT’S  IMPORTANT  TO  REMEMBER  THAT  SOVIET  RUSSIA  WAS  MILITANTLY  ATHEIST.     the government seized land & property that was owned by the orthodox church,     persecuted & publicly ridiculed or arrested religious followers,     & did all that it could to erase orthodoxy  ( or even pagan superstitions that were both separate from or intwined with orthodox beliefs   —–   this marriage between superstition & christian orthodoxy was one of the biggest contributing factors to pre - soviet russia’s rich culture )  from the face of russia.     natasha was born about six years after the soviet union was established,      & was raised by a soviet soldier for the first ten years of her life before she was put into a soviet orphanage / training facility for about three years   ( after which she returned to ivan’s care ).      needless to say,     natasha grew up without religion.     & whatever tidbits of religion she did encounter were heavily implied to be foolish little habits,      or archaic beliefs that nostalgic laymen who were useless to the soviet stubbornly clung to.     but that would be an oversimplification,     i think.     there were still people who had not yet reached their middle age when nat was reaching her adolescence,      who were born before the bolshevik revolution,      who still held to orthodoxy or tradition in some way,      who found it hard to let go no matter how much they tried to in public.     in reading  DEATHLESS  by catherynne m valente,      i found a small passage that i think perfectly sums up these people born before the revolution,     still holding to their traditions:

IVAN  HISSED  THROUGH  HIS  TEETH  &  MADE  THE  SIGN  OF  THE  CROSS.      IT  WAS  A  BAD  HABIT,     CROSSING  YOURSELF,     BUT  LIKE  BITING  FINGERNAILS,      HARD  TO  BREAK.       catherynne valente   -   deathless,     chapter 14.

no matter what the people soviet or the government did,     they could never truly erase religion from russia.     still,     they tried their best,      & their best meant a generation born into the USSR that found itself to be atheist.      NATASHA  WAS  AMONG  THEM.     in her prime,     she became a member of russia’s  ELITE,      married to the premiere test pilot,      previously trained under  THE  WINTER  SOLDIER  himself,      becoming the  BLACK  WIDOW in the early  1960′s.      the concept of  ‘ GOD ‘  was never on her mind.      the only  higher power  she looked to was  THE  STATE,     MOTHER  RUSSIA,     &  THE  PEOPLE  SHE  SERVED.      but that changed when she defected in the late 60′s.

it is nothing less than understandable that once natasha defected from the USSR to the west,     she underwent a major shift in thinking.     she doubted her identity,     she doubted her homeland,     she doubted everything they made her believe,     & when she finished doubting,     she started  BELIEVING.

I  GAVE  UP  ONE  COUNTRY  FOR  ANOTHER.      ONE  COUNTRY  FOR  AN  IDEAL.     I  DIDN’T  THINK  OF  IT  THAT  WAY  AT  THE  TIME.      CALL  ME  CRAZY.     BUT  I  JUST  WANTED  TO  BE  FREE.        natasha romanova,     name of the rose (2010),     #1

& free she became.     free to love,     free to choose,     free to  THINK  &  BELIEVE  in what she wanted,      how she wanted.      the atheism she was raised with,      she looked upon the same way as everything else the soviets tried to make her believe.     she looked at herself critically,      & she made herself someone new.      but in terms of direct beliefs,      natasha did not rethink them immediately.      i’d say it was a slow process,      via exposure rather than searching.

during the 60′s - 70′s,      america was still a very protestant / evangelical nation,     & belief in God was pretty commonplace,      & natasha definitely picked up on this.      her first real,     substantial interaction with a devout believer was  MATT MURDOCK,      her on/off boyfriend for nearly a decade,      her fwb ever since,      who as we all know is fundamentally catholic.      though never addressed on - panel in the 70′s daredevil run,     i’d say that natasha was shifting from atheism to agnosticism during their relationship.       however,     religiously,     things got a little more complicated when natasha began a relationship with  HERCULES.      yes,     that hercules.      ancient greek god,     heracles,     son of zeus,     figure of myth.      of course,     we cannot forget that natasha also had a teammate in  THOR  when she joined the avengers.       as someone who was not exposed to the concept of a god for the first thirty or so years of her life,      this was no doubt somewhat of a shock,      even if she never showed it.      assimilating into a nation that believed freely,      being close to a devout catholic,     knowing two separate gods from two separate pagan religions   …   it threw her for a loop.      but it also opened up a whole new world for her in terms of how people actually view their religions.

as a christian myself,     God is a being that is so intrinsic to my life    ——    i literally do not know how i could live without Him.      & i think that through the people she was around,     especially matthew,      natasha saw this.       & through interacting with hercules & thor,      natasha realized that all these ancient beliefs,     these religions,      could have some truth in them since their deities actually  EXISTED.      but still,     there remains a distinction between how natasha views pagan religions whose figures she personally knows,     & how she views a God that she cannot see.     she knows hercules exists,     she knows thor exists.     she has been to mount olympus & conversed with the pantheon,      she has seen odin,      fought alongside brunnhilde,      against loki   ——–   she knows without a doubt that these deities exist.     but she does not pray to them,      she does not devote her life to them,      she merely acknowledges that they are there.      & frankly,      if we’re just talking about hercules,      she’d much rather tell him what to do in a team setting,    & sleep with him,     than offer him prayers & supplication.

but if there were a God that natasha would believe in,      if there were a God that would define natasha’s agnosticism,      it would be the abrahamic God.      she knows the pagan gods exist,      but from what she sees of them,       their power is limited.     they fight,     they make the worst of humans,      & are far too hot headed & proud for her taste.       what she has heard of the abrahamic God,     however,     is that he is good,    merciful,    perhaps omnipotent,      & grants salvation even to those who do not deserve it.      AS  SOMEONE  WHO  HAS  DONE  SO  MUCH  WRONG  IN  HER  LIFE,      is steeped in sin,     kills like it is nothing,      & hides so many secrets within her heart,      this God,     this concept of a higher power is one that is attractive to her.      but for a person this complex,      it’s not that simple.      as someone described above,      she is also a person who has  SEEN  so much evil in this world.     she has seen men fight,     millions of people die in war & of starvation,      & it is extremely difficult for her to reconcile such a world with a creator that lets it fester like it does.      but she also believes that without a higher power,      without anything watching over the world,     she & everyone else is practically screwed.      in terms of her own belief & how it applies to her,      she also can’t quite  …  wrap her head around sin,      & how her own sins can be forgiven.     in  MARVEL  KNIGHTS  vol. 1,     natasha visits a church & goes to confession.     the first time in a very long time,     she admits,     & what she says is quite telling.

BEGIN  WITH  THE  LEAST  OF  YOUR  SINS.AREN’T  ALL  SINS  EQUAL ?      DOESN’T  EACH  ONE  OF  THEM  CONDEMN  US  TO  THE  SAME  FATE ?     IS  THERE  REALLY  A  DEGREE  TO  SIN,     FATHER ?      AM  I  EXCUSED  BECAUSE  THE  SINS  I  COMMITTED  WERE  IN  THE  CAUSE  OF  GOOD ?      CAN  HE  SEE  THAT  THE  DEED  IS  SOMETIMES  ISOLATED  FROM  THE  SOUL ?      DOES  GOD  SOMETIMES  LOOK  AWAY ?        natasha romanova,     marvel knights vol. 1,    #1

these are not the words of a woman who does not entertain the belief in a higher power.     NOR  are these the words of a woman who believes with clarity that this higher power can be defined.     & at the end of the day,      though she may mull over what she believes about God when she drifts to sleep,      she does not have the time nor energy to devote herself to a higher power,      especially when her life is already given to helping people herself.

though she does not yet know where she stands,      she does have a high respect for those who do practice religion,     or even just for the concept of a God.      & it has seemed to me that she thinks it is a concept that  SHOULD  be respected,     & untouched by those who would seek to taint it.      there are two instances that come to mind  ( both from black widow vol. 5 ),      the first when natasha is fighting against a man who calls himself  the  HAMMER  OF  GOD.      natasha thinks this is ridiculous,      insane,     & tells him that she thinks that somehow,    God cannot hear his prayers over his machine gun.     the other instance is when the  ‘ translator ‘  of  CHAOS / the PROPHET,    is offering natasha a part in their new movement to rid the world of evil,     through means that natasha does not support.      she ridicules him by saying that he cannot pretend to be jesus,     that he does not have the right to be the final arbiter of good nor to take away people’s will.      both of these instances are never explained in terms of natasha’s beliefs,     & i think are left there to be interpreted as one wishes,     but to me in context of natasha’s entire history,      they are indicators of a leaning towards belief,      of an acknowledgment of a God,     a higher power,     but nothing further.

ALL  OF  THAT  SAID,     i return to my short answer:     natasha considers herself agnostic,     & perhaps with a side of deism that she can’t quite put a finger on.     to me,    she is definitely  NOT  atheist,     which is what fanon / fandom so loves to pigeonhole her as.     but it’s not that simple,     & there’s ample evidence sprinkled across her canon that says otherwise,     much of which i probably haven’t even touched on here.     i hope this answers your question,     & i’m sorry if this was messy or complicated   ——-   there’s just so much to consider.      religion is never something easy,     because it isn’t just a set of frivolous beliefs,     it’s a way of life.     this is no different for natasha.     & since she herself is so complex,     so multi - faceted,     it only makes sense that her own beliefs are the same.