#ii. VNE. ❝ ᶤᶰᵇᵒˣ ❞ › anonymous.

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do u have any headcanons abt natasha's religion? i'm always interested how marvel chara muns tie in their muse's religion w/ the myth based nature of the marvel universe, and with natasha's cultural background it's especially interesting! xoxo

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.     thank you  SO MUCH  for sending this in !!!      & in fact,     i do !!     i’ve been meaning to write about it for … more than a year,   honestly but just never got around to it.      but that’s changing   ————     SHORT  ANSWER  :   I  SEE  NATASHA  AS  AGNOSTIC,      with a tendency towards belief in some kind of higher power.     whether that be  GOD  or  FATE,      she has yet to decide.

but i’m sure you’re here for the long answer.      IT’S  IMPORTANT  TO  REMEMBER  THAT  SOVIET  RUSSIA  WAS  MILITANTLY  ATHEIST.     the government seized land & property that was owned by the orthodox church,     persecuted & publicly ridiculed or arrested religious followers,     & did all that it could to erase orthodoxy  ( or even pagan superstitions that were both separate from or intwined with orthodox beliefs   —–   this marriage between superstition & christian orthodoxy was one of the biggest contributing factors to pre - soviet russia’s rich culture )  from the face of russia.     natasha was born about six years after the soviet union was established,      & was raised by a soviet soldier for the first ten years of her life before she was put into a soviet orphanage / training facility for about three years   ( after which she returned to ivan’s care ).      needless to say,     natasha grew up without religion.     & whatever tidbits of religion she did encounter were heavily implied to be foolish little habits,      or archaic beliefs that nostalgic laymen who were useless to the soviet stubbornly clung to.     but that would be an oversimplification,     i think.     there were still people who had not yet reached their middle age when nat was reaching her adolescence,      who were born before the bolshevik revolution,      who still held to orthodoxy or tradition in some way,      who found it hard to let go no matter how much they tried to in public.     in reading  DEATHLESS  by catherynne m valente,      i found a small passage that i think perfectly sums up these people born before the revolution,     still holding to their traditions:

IVAN  HISSED  THROUGH  HIS  TEETH  &  MADE  THE  SIGN  OF  THE  CROSS.      IT  WAS  A  BAD  HABIT,     CROSSING  YOURSELF,     BUT  LIKE  BITING  FINGERNAILS,      HARD  TO  BREAK.       catherynne valente   -   deathless,     chapter 14.

no matter what the people soviet or the government did,     they could never truly erase religion from russia.     still,     they tried their best,      & their best meant a generation born into the USSR that found itself to be atheist.      NATASHA  WAS  AMONG  THEM.     in her prime,     she became a member of russia’s  ELITE,      married to the premiere test pilot,      previously trained under  THE  WINTER  SOLDIER  himself,      becoming the  BLACK  WIDOW in the early  1960′s.      the concept of  ‘ GOD ‘  was never on her mind.      the only  higher power  she looked to was  THE  STATE,     MOTHER  RUSSIA,     &  THE  PEOPLE  SHE  SERVED.      but that changed when she defected in the late 60′s.

it is nothing less than understandable that once natasha defected from the USSR to the west,     she underwent a major shift in thinking.     she doubted her identity,     she doubted her homeland,     she doubted everything they made her believe,     & when she finished doubting,     she started  BELIEVING.

I  GAVE  UP  ONE  COUNTRY  FOR  ANOTHER.      ONE  COUNTRY  FOR  AN  IDEAL.     I  DIDN’T  THINK  OF  IT  THAT  WAY  AT  THE  TIME.      CALL  ME  CRAZY.     BUT  I  JUST  WANTED  TO  BE  FREE.        natasha romanova,     name of the rose (2010),     #1

& free she became.     free to love,     free to choose,     free to  THINK  &  BELIEVE  in what she wanted,      how she wanted.      the atheism she was raised with,      she looked upon the same way as everything else the soviets tried to make her believe.     she looked at herself critically,      & she made herself someone new.      but in terms of direct beliefs,      natasha did not rethink them immediately.      i’d say it was a slow process,      via exposure rather than searching.

during the 60′s - 70′s,      america was still a very protestant / evangelical nation,     & belief in God was pretty commonplace,      & natasha definitely picked up on this.      her first real,     substantial interaction with a devout believer was  MATT MURDOCK,      her on/off boyfriend for nearly a decade,      her fwb ever since,      who as we all know is fundamentally catholic.      though never addressed on - panel in the 70′s daredevil run,     i’d say that natasha was shifting from atheism to agnosticism during their relationship.       however,     religiously,     things got a little more complicated when natasha began a relationship with  HERCULES.      yes,     that hercules.      ancient greek god,     heracles,     son of zeus,     figure of myth.      of course,     we cannot forget that natasha also had a teammate in  THOR  when she joined the avengers.       as someone who was not exposed to the concept of a god for the first thirty or so years of her life,      this was no doubt somewhat of a shock,      even if she never showed it.      assimilating into a nation that believed freely,      being close to a devout catholic,     knowing two separate gods from two separate pagan religions   …   it threw her for a loop.      but it also opened up a whole new world for her in terms of how people actually view their religions.

as a christian myself,     God is a being that is so intrinsic to my life    ——    i literally do not know how i could live without Him.      & i think that through the people she was around,     especially matthew,      natasha saw this.       & through interacting with hercules & thor,      natasha realized that all these ancient beliefs,     these religions,      could have some truth in them since their deities actually  EXISTED.      but still,     there remains a distinction between how natasha views pagan religions whose figures she personally knows,     & how she views a God that she cannot see.     she knows hercules exists,     she knows thor exists.     she has been to mount olympus & conversed with the pantheon,      she has seen odin,      fought alongside brunnhilde,      against loki   ——–   she knows without a doubt that these deities exist.     but she does not pray to them,      she does not devote her life to them,      she merely acknowledges that they are there.      & frankly,      if we’re just talking about hercules,      she’d much rather tell him what to do in a team setting,    & sleep with him,     than offer him prayers & supplication.

but if there were a God that natasha would believe in,      if there were a God that would define natasha’s agnosticism,      it would be the abrahamic God.      she knows the pagan gods exist,      but from what she sees of them,       their power is limited.     they fight,     they make the worst of humans,      & are far too hot headed & proud for her taste.       what she has heard of the abrahamic God,     however,     is that he is good,    merciful,    perhaps omnipotent,      & grants salvation even to those who do not deserve it.      AS  SOMEONE  WHO  HAS  DONE  SO  MUCH  WRONG  IN  HER  LIFE,      is steeped in sin,     kills like it is nothing,      & hides so many secrets within her heart,      this God,     this concept of a higher power is one that is attractive to her.      but for a person this complex,      it’s not that simple.      as someone described above,      she is also a person who has  SEEN  so much evil in this world.     she has seen men fight,     millions of people die in war & of starvation,      & it is extremely difficult for her to reconcile such a world with a creator that lets it fester like it does.      but she also believes that without a higher power,      without anything watching over the world,     she & everyone else is practically screwed.      in terms of her own belief & how it applies to her,      she also can’t quite  …  wrap her head around sin,      & how her own sins can be forgiven.     in  MARVEL  KNIGHTS  vol. 1,     natasha visits a church & goes to confession.     the first time in a very long time,     she admits,     & what she says is quite telling.

BEGIN  WITH  THE  LEAST  OF  YOUR  SINS.AREN’T  ALL  SINS  EQUAL ?      DOESN’T  EACH  ONE  OF  THEM  CONDEMN  US  TO  THE  SAME  FATE ?     IS  THERE  REALLY  A  DEGREE  TO  SIN,     FATHER ?      AM  I  EXCUSED  BECAUSE  THE  SINS  I  COMMITTED  WERE  IN  THE  CAUSE  OF  GOOD ?      CAN  HE  SEE  THAT  THE  DEED  IS  SOMETIMES  ISOLATED  FROM  THE  SOUL ?      DOES  GOD  SOMETIMES  LOOK  AWAY ?        natasha romanova,     marvel knights vol. 1,    #1

these are not the words of a woman who does not entertain the belief in a higher power.     NOR  are these the words of a woman who believes with clarity that this higher power can be defined.     & at the end of the day,      though she may mull over what she believes about God when she drifts to sleep,      she does not have the time nor energy to devote herself to a higher power,      especially when her life is already given to helping people herself.

though she does not yet know where she stands,      she does have a high respect for those who do practice religion,     or even just for the concept of a God.      & it has seemed to me that she thinks it is a concept that  SHOULD  be respected,     & untouched by those who would seek to taint it.      there are two instances that come to mind  ( both from black widow vol. 5 ),      the first when natasha is fighting against a man who calls himself  the  HAMMER  OF  GOD.      natasha thinks this is ridiculous,      insane,     & tells him that she thinks that somehow,    God cannot hear his prayers over his machine gun.     the other instance is when the  ‘ translator ‘  of  CHAOS / the PROPHET,    is offering natasha a part in their new movement to rid the world of evil,     through means that natasha does not support.      she ridicules him by saying that he cannot pretend to be jesus,     that he does not have the right to be the final arbiter of good nor to take away people’s will.      both of these instances are never explained in terms of natasha’s beliefs,     & i think are left there to be interpreted as one wishes,     but to me in context of natasha’s entire history,      they are indicators of a leaning towards belief,      of an acknowledgment of a God,     a higher power,     but nothing further.

ALL  OF  THAT  SAID,     i return to my short answer:     natasha considers herself agnostic,     & perhaps with a side of deism that she can’t quite put a finger on.     to me,    she is definitely  NOT  atheist,     which is what fanon / fandom so loves to pigeonhole her as.     but it’s not that simple,     & there’s ample evidence sprinkled across her canon that says otherwise,     much of which i probably haven’t even touched on here.     i hope this answers your question,     & i’m sorry if this was messy or complicated   ——-   there’s just so much to consider.      religion is never something easy,     because it isn’t just a set of frivolous beliefs,     it’s a way of life.     this is no different for natasha.     & since she herself is so complex,     so multi - faceted,     it only makes sense that her own beliefs are the same.

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man door hand hook car door? Elaborate.

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hey! I’ve seen all of your posts about faceclaims and whatnot and I really value your opinion. how do you feel about natasha’s faceclaim being someone like eiza gonzalez? I’m hesitant to go forward with it because eiza is Latina, and I’m not sure how that would go over. so, I wanted to ask you for your opinion!

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.      aww,    this means a lot that you’d come to me omg thank you !!     i’ll just say off the bat that you need to be  COMMITTED  when you racebend a character   —–   & that means doing your research & becoming very familiar with the history of a peoples,     their social/political/cultural background,     & so on.     with that also comes a cultural sensitivity    :     SOME CHARACTERS SHOULD NOT BE RACEBENT INTO CERTAIN ETHNICITIES,     & that always has to do with the history of the character itself.    how were they conceived ?     what were the writers trying to say with the character ?    what makes the character who they are ?      these are all questions you need to ask yourself first before moving forward with a decision like this,     because sometimes racebending can be Very culturally insensitive !

with a character like natasha,     you need to know the ins & outs of her canon background as a woman growing up in 20th century soviet russia,     which also means her association with  COM.MUNISM.     ofc,    com.munism has affected many,    many nations & cultures in the 20th century,     & unfortunately still does today.     were you to racebend her,     you’d need to be Very careful with how you’re approaching her com.munist background  ;  it varies by culture.     for example,     i have seen some people racebend natasha to be a vietnamese woman,     just for the hell of it.     as a vietnamese woman,     knowing the history of com.munism in my own heritage & how it has affected both the native & expatriate viet populations,      i know without a Doubt that most if not all vietnamese people  DETEST  the idea of our representation having  ANYTHING  to do with com.munism   ( seriously,     viet groups all over the place have protested these things ).     that part of our history is not one that we are fond of,     & to make a character that has roots in com.munism vietnamese is really a slap in the face to those of us who want absolutely nothing to do with it.

BUT THAT DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL CULTURES,     it’s just an example of something you need to be very careful with & aware of.     good ethnic representation is not just having as many characters as possible who Happen to be poc,     it’s putting a Lot of effort into knowing the social/political/cultural intricacies & sensitivities.     i am admittedly not as knowledgeable in how com.munism has affected latin america as other parts of the world,     so i would implore that you do your own research & ask those who are familiar with it.      however i also know that there are latinxs that consider eiza to be overused as a faceclaim in comparison to the  MANY  other latina actresses out there  ( nothing against eiza she’s very talented & beautiful ),     so personally i would perhaps continue searching ?     idk,    i hope this helped in  SOME  way jfklsd.    the best advice i can give is  BE CAREFUL,     BE AWARE.     natasha is a character that fits into a very specific time in history,     & with that comes a lot of context you need to take into account.    but of course,     though some instances of racebending her have been insensitive,     i’ve seen some that do her a lot of justice & are really quite wonderful.     good luck !

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hey hey so i saw your amazing meta on romanoff vs romanova / natasha vs natalia and i was wondering why you're using natya now?

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.      hello there !!!!!      thank you  SO  MUCH  for asking,     cos now i have an excuse to word vomit abt this    —————-    basically,      it has to do with the nature of my portrayal in general.      natasha is very much a woman of russia,      & like i said in the meta you’re referencing,      she is very in touch with her heritage & culture,     despite having lived in america since the late 60′s.     in that sense,     i think of her as somewhat of a diamond in the rough  :   SOMEONE  THAT  ADAPTS  WITHOUT  COMPROMISING.     it’s also somewhat of my own  fuck you  @ fanon / comic writers / artists that think since natasha is  RUSSIAN,    she’s still a soviet sympathizer  ( for the sake of sex appeal,   obviously,    because all the sexy russian girls in western media are secretly double agents for the ussr.     WRONG ).     a great example is uhhhh  this,    &  pretty much any art of current - natya that involves a hammer & sickle,    etc. etc.     i call her  ‘ natya ’  because though she’s been an american for 50 years,     she still clings to her russian identity that is not tainted by unnecessary sexualization.     what fanon / comic writers always do to indicate her russian-ness is to give her a thick accent,     draw art like previously mentioned,     villainize her as a double agent  ( looking @ u,  ultimates ),     & associate her with soviet ideologies.     ALL  OF  THESE  ARE  AN  UNDERMINING  OF  HER  CHARACTER.    names carry a lot of weight,     which is why her name is  ROMANOVA  instead of romanoff.     & likewise,      it is why i choose  NATYA  instead of nat as an indicator of who she is.

natya is not russian because of her sex appeal or imposed stereotypes.     she is russian because of how she was raised,     because she chooses to live in slavic immigrant communities though she has the resources to do otherwise,     because she chooses to keep relics of her old life in russia,     because she prefers to be called russian diminutives instead of anglicized / american shortenings.

& just for practicality’s sake,     here’s a breakdown of the diminutives of  ‘NATALIA’   ( which,    the purest / most original form is  ‘ NATALYA ‘ )     —-      we all know she primarily goes by  ‘ NATASHA, ’     which is basically the next - level - down - diminutive of natalia,     but she also goes by the latter.     it’s just a small preference,     but it doesn’t really matter to her.     ‘ NATYA ’  is an affectionate diminutive,     specifically taken as a nickname.     it’s pretty much the same as calling her ‘ nat, ’    but … russian.     OTHER DIMINUTIVE NICKNAMES FOR THE NAME  ‘ NATALIA / NATALYA ’   INCLUDE:      nata,    natka,     natushka,    natusha,    natanya,    natasya,    natulya,    tatuska,    tatya,     etc.     & here’s where i say that anyone can call her natya.    ONLY  people who knew her in the past / people who are very close to her can call her the rest.     OR,    everything’s just free game to kindly elder strangers & babushkas when she’s visiting russia / slavic immigrant communities.     she may not be it,    but she looks young,     & she still holds a lot of respect for the elderly who may even be younger than her by years,    & frankly she enjoys whatever affection they can give her in the form of names.

but also,    it’s just a mark of originality,    tbh ??    i try to be as original as i can with everything i do with this portrayal,    & i’ve  NEVER  seen another natasha refer to her as any next - level russian diminutive.    so yeah.

TL;DR ?    i love my russian mother,     my oc natya romanova

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ok so tbh?? Thank You for everything u post abt c*mm*n*sm bc there is Nothing more exhausting than white liberals on this hellsite who Won't Shut Up abt how good & great & magical & perfect c*mm*n*sm is like!!! my grandmother had to FLEE FOR HER LIFE from this shit!!! families were torn apart! every time my white mom tells me how good c*mm*n*sm is I lose 5 years off my life, but at least I can always remember that you, creator of the beautiful Natya Romanova, The Black Widow, is Over this bs too

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could natasha win american ninja warrior ???

of COURSE she could omg ! she qualified for the olympics at one point ( but never competed bc she joined the kgb instead yeet ), and is pretty much superior to a gold medal gymnast. she also is one of the Best fighters / combatants in the marvel universe. she has INCREDIBLE control and awareness of her body. she could get through the course Easily. E Zee Lee.

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Who is gonna be involved in your new arc? I need to follow, I'm excited!

this is so sweet im DYING ilu !!! i only have a few SO FAR, emphasis on So Far, but @vozvrate is most likely gonna be the most Important in terms of how the arc is even gonna work, @ensavaged / dove’s oc cecilia which she is Makin the blogue for, and @slaede / @aluthor as antagonistic characters. but i’m still workin thru figuring out Whomst Else and How im gonna incorporate people ... and honestly ? if any of my close partners has an idea of how they wanna include their muse in i am SO OPEN. i’m just super slow so this is taking a while for me to contact ppl ... fjkdsljfs

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Your new header is beautiful!

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Ok but I'm seriously confused! Is Nat a ballerina? Or was fed in the false info that she's a ballerina after the whole serum thing? Pls explain

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.    hi there !!    don’t worry about being confused,     because canon hasn’t really done much in recent years to make it  NOT  confusing.     basically,    all the confusion that people have comes from all the retcons that have been done to natasha’s origin story over the years.    there’s basically  TWO WAYS  that one can view natasha’s backstory.    the FIRST origin story was that natasha was a ballet student in the bolshoi before she willingly joined the KGB.     the SECOND origin story,     which is the one that fanon & comic writers nowadays like to follow,     was that natasha was raised in the red room & brainwashed to believe she was a ballerina as a cover story to hide her being a covert ops agent.      i’m sure all of you know by now that i really quite DETEST the second version,    because it takes all agency from natasha & pretty much erases all the 20+ years of history that the comics established for her in the silver / bronze ages of comics from the 60′s - 80′s.     so,    since this blog prefers giving natasha the agency she deserves & the developed back story that wasn’t lazily put together by writers with a vendetta against russians having a conscience,     i prefer the first story,    which is canon for this portrayal.     BUT,    i do throw a little bit of the second one in just to tie up loose ends.     since i can’t walk into marvel’s hq & give an extensive powerpoint on why they’re all idiots,      here’s the basic origin that is canon for this blog:

ALSO,    a note before i actually get into things:   BALLERINA DOES NOT MEAN ANY FEMALE BALLET DANCER.     a ballerina ( or in full,    prima ballerina ) is the top female dancer in a ballet company.     any other dancer that does not hold the ballerina or ballerino title are simply ballet dancers.     this is a common misconception !!

natasha was born in 1928 in stalingrad,     russia.     she was orphaned during an imperialist attack,    & saved by a soviet soldier by the name of ivan petrovich.     he raised her until she was nine / ten years old,     put her in a soviet orphanage / training facility for youngsters wherein she stayed for about three years under the care of a taras romanov  ( who was not related to her or the dead royal family by blood )  until he was killed by logan howlett & she escaped into the wilderness.     ivan found natasha,    & continued to raise her as his own.    canon does not say exactly when she first took up dancing,     but i’d take a guess & say between the ages of 11-13.    she had to put her ballet aside when the germans broke the treaty with the soviets during world war 2,     & so she fought in the war against the germans,    fell in love with a boy named nikolai on the battlefield,     got pregnant but lost the child as well as nikolai & the rest of her squad in 1944.     she was 17 years old when the war ended in 1945.   when the war did end,     her & ivan remained together & basically worked as guns for hire or soldiers wherever they were needed.     but natasha did return to ballet as well as her studies,     & she was loyal to her practice & her instructor,     & quickly became the best student in the company,     as well as best scholarly student at whatever higher education schooling facility she was in.      NATASHA WAS TO BECOME PRIMA BALLERINA OF THE BOLSHOI,     but she joined the KGB to save ivan’s life & further serve her nation before she could officially take up the position.     her beloved instructor at the bolshoi,     oksana bolishinko,     gave her a medal as an indication of her love & value for natasha as an individual & as her best student,    & natasha still keeps the medal to this day.

in the red room,     though she remorsefully was no longer a ballet dancer,     they did brainwash her with a cover story that she still was a ballerina.     after all,     she had the skill,    & was allowed to keep that skill fresh with practice.     but,   regardless,     she only thought she was a ballerina at the time,    & was not indeed one when she was in the red room.      when she defected,     the brainwashing eventually crumbled & she did realize that she was brainwashed to believe she was ballerina in the red room,     but she also did acknowledge all the actual training she had before she joined the KGB.     & ever since,     she’s kept her skills alive with practice,      has used the ballet dancer cover from time to time,      & also dances in productions when she has the time.

regardless of how her mind was manipulated over the years,     ballet is still a passion of hers,     & even if she does use it for a cover story sometimes,      she loves to dance herself.

IT’S ART,    STEVE.     & ART IS FOR EVERYONE.     BUT MORE THAN THAT,     IT IS ABOUT THE PURSUIT OF BEAUTY…  THE ASPIRATION THAT WITHIN US ALL,     WE ARE EACH CAPABLE OF ACHIEVING A MOMENT OF PERFECTION….    THE RIGHT MOVEMENT,     IN THE RIGHT MANNER,      AT THE RIGHT MOMENT.       natasha romanova,     captain america: sam wilson #7

keep in mind that the canon these days,     which has been retconned beyond recognition & belief,     holds to the raised & brainwashed by the red room story,     so if you’re wondering why everyone & their mom thinks this is canon despite all the history that’s been established in past decades,    it’s because technically it is canon.     but i say SCREW CANON.     paul cornell & marjorie liu were the last writers that remained loyal to natasha joining the red room herself,   & being an actual dancer,    but the last they wrote of natasha was in 2010.     natasha’s two most recent runs by nathan edmondson & mark waid  (2014,   2016,   respectively)  have abandoned that origin story & unfortunately retconned it the final time     if you want to read for yourself the comics from which i compiled all of the information for MY CANON,    you can find them here:

BLACK WIDOW:   DEADLY ORIGIN (2009).BLACK WIDOW:   NAME OF THE ROSE (2010).SOLO AVENGERS #7 (1988).     short story is in latter half of issue.CAPTAIN AMERICA: SAM WILSON #7 (2015).      short story is in the last ten pages of issue.

do n.ot reblog.

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what are your thoughts on red room original characters?

OF  LOVE  /  OF  DEATH.      tbh i’m not a fan ?      i tend to shy away from  ANY  oc that is tied to natya’s history in the red room,     simply because the origin story that most people stick to is the shitty  ‘ natasha was raised in the red room & none of it was consensual ‘  one.      that shit grinds my gears like nothing else.     BUT !!     i’m sure there are some really good red room OC’s out there.      as long as they don’t pull a dott.ie un.derwood and say their muse was  ‘ the first black widow ‘   or  ‘ the best that came out of the program ‘   ( since those are statuses that are  FUNDAMENTAL  to natasha’s character that,    if given to anyone else,     would completely undermine her.     no,  i’m not being dramatic )   i’m pretty okay with it.     there’s no denying that there were definitely many women aside from natasha in the red room,     both during her time there  ( one of 28 ),     &  afterwards   ——-    yelena was a student of the red room long after natasha,     along with many others as well.      HOWEVER,    i’m pretty sure that canon has made it clear at least twice  (  HOMECOMING (2004)*,     WIDOWMAKER (2011) )   that they’ve all been assassinated,      & natasha is the last surviving individual that was involved in the red room.    so …. yeah.

*   i am well aware that  HOMECOMING  was the first attempt at introducing the  ‘ raised in the red room ‘   story,    & i obviously don’t take that into account in my portrayal.     but,    i do really enjoy the rest of the story in that it shows the nuances of natasha’s character,      & her potential for bitterness & anger that many people just don’t let her have.     though the timeline for her story is skewed in terms of origins,     i don’t see any reason why the situation with  GYNACON  & the assassination of all the red room members wouldn’t have happened with the timeline i follow.     also,    it’s pretty important that  NATASHA  WAS  THE  ONLY  ONE  WHO  ESCAPED  ASSASSINATION.

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it's still fucking hypocritical to stan for a rape apologist and act like his bullshit is just bad writing while jess's is an indication of her character, stupid.

tbh i’m not even saying it’s shitty writing i’m literally saying 1. it’s a product of the times, the bronze/silver ages were awfully terrible to women, and we need to accept that as much as we need to accept how sexism has changed in our own society 2. clint didn’t even know the full extent of what happened to bobbi because she chose not to tell him.  also i’m not trying to excuse clint for something that he didn’t even do (not that i know of, at least. if you can point us to a specific panel where clint does admittedly know that bobbi was ra.ped then i beg that you do, otherwise it sounds like you’re trying to excuse jess’s abuse). but even if clint was/is the ra.pe apologist you’re saying he is, that does not discount the fact that jessica was heavily implied to have abused him, verbally AND physically, was possessive, etc. i’m not the clint expert, but if there are panels that show he is what you say he is, and if they can be contextually linked to other canon instances of character development in modern times, then right on — that’s clint barton for you. that’s who he is, and i’ll give it to you. also, while we’re at it —-

matt m.urdock is a repeat abuser. verbally, physically, extremely possessive. still one of the most loved characters in mar.vel.natas.ha rom.anova psychologically tortured and physically violated yel.ena bel.ova. yelena literally, on panel, equates this to ra.pe. as far as i know, nat’s never apologized. everyone loves to romanticize natasha as a good guy.th.or has verbally abused women and has shown extremely sexist behavior. still one of the most loved characters.tony stark has been shown to be sexist. oh, also, he’s an avid mutant racist (so is steve), and many mutants would claim his actions have violated them. nobody ever talks about this.reed richards is abusive.hank pym is EXTREMELY abusive.

it’s not just clint. it’s not just jess. beloved characters have done terrible, terrible, unforgivable things to innocent people, and ruined peoples’ lives. just because all of them have done this shit doesn’t mean it excuses any one of them, and it definitely does not excuse jessica. there’s also no denying that there’s a very active belief that women in a heterosexual relationship cannot be domestic abusers, which invalidates their male victims, which is just as bad as if it were the other way around. it’s a deep issue, and i’m not excusing anybody for this. not jess, and not clint if he actually did this.

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did you dislike scarjo before the white wash and if so , why ?

i’ll be honest, before the gh.ost in the sh.ell news i would’ve let her kill me and i would’ve thanked her, i thought her nat was a++, i swore up and down that i’d never use an alt fc even -------- but mind you i wasn’t as knowledgable about 616 nat at the time, and i really did admire her passion for standing up for women’s rights and for not sitting through sexist questions all the time during press and shit. but around the time of the wh.itewash shit just coming out, i was reading more and more of nat’s comic stuff, and saw scarno less and less as nat anyway. and, you know, as a woc feminist myself it was really, really, really, disheartening to see this woman who i did really admire pull some unapologetically rac.ist shit like this AS AN A-LIST ACTRESS (highest paid of all time, i believe lolololol @ everyone saying she had no choice). tbh i think i was really blinded by the general perception of her as a Fem.inist and was also ignorant of how terrible her nat really was in the mcu, so the change in opinion was all lumped together at one time. and, jokes aside, i still am very disappointed in her choices, and also really Tired of ..... her face, and her acting, and her voice.