#I wasn't a big fan of this version of Aegon but he would be perfect for Harrenhal.

[bietrofastimoff23]

I can't stop thinking that Aemond is not afraid of anyone and stoically endures every Harrenhal nightmare until he sees THIS person ↓

he can defeat an adult Aegon any day and he has already done it, but a TEENAGE Aegon is someone he will never overcome.

his tormentor, his brother, his weakness, his support, his reminder of his helplessness, his partner, his disappointment, his love, his hate, his maker, his target for destruction-

[saltywinteradult]

“there is no way in hell Alicent is going to abandon her children” why not?

Aegon’s a rapist and Aemond’s a sociopathic kinslayer, why should Alicent be forced to stay loyal to them?

I understand Rhaenyra why loves Jace, Luke and Joffrey because what’s not to love, they’re perfect. But I cannot see Alicent genuinely loving Aegon and Aemond after everything they’ve done.

It would be 100x more radical and feminist for Alicent to choose Rhaenyra, to put herself first, to stop letting men control her.

Goodness me, I hardly know where to start with this.

I don’t know how you think parental love works, nonny dearest, but it sure as hell isn’t "I won't love my children if they're not perfect people". That’s generally not how parenthood works. And Alicent loves her children. She was sold as a child bride and endured years of rape for the sake of producing those children. Raising and protecting them has been the main purpose of Alicent’s life for twenty years. How could she not love them?

In case you need proof, Alicent physically attacked Rhaenyra, arguably the big love of her life, because she was that angry (and rightfully so) about her son being maimed. Alicent went along with usurping Rhaenyra's throne, despite knowing it would lead to war and ruin what little chance she had left of mending things with Rhaenyra, because she loves her children and is desperate to keep them safe, and she believes that Rhaenyra would kill them to secure her claim to the throne. (Whether that is true is a different discussion - what matters here is that Alicent believes it.) Alicent stepped in front of a dragon to protect Aegon, for crying out loud. Aegon being a rapist clearly tarnished him in her eyes, and yet she still stepped in front of that dragon to protect him. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about Alicent's love for her children, I don't know what will. So I don't know that this is a case of Alicent being "forced" to stay loyal to her children, as much as it is Alicent choosing to stay loyal to the people she loves most in the world.

I would also like to point out that Rhaenyra's children are very much not perfect. Jace and Luke both participated in bullying Aemond. In case you forgot, it was Luke who literally mutilated and permanently disabled Aemond. It doesn't matter if Aemond was in the wrong for claiming Vhagar or calling the Strong boys bastards. He wasn't, but even if he was, cutting out someone's eye is not a thing that good people do. So I don't know where you got the idea that Jace and Luke are "perfect", nonny dearest, but it sure as hell wasn't from HotD.

I'm not going to argue over whether Luke maiming Aemond is more or less bad than Aegon raping Dyana or Aemond killing Luke (which is his fault, even if in this version of the story he didn't intend for it to happen). That's not the point. And please note, I am not making a single excuse for Aegon raping Dyana or Aemond killing Luke. I'm simply pointing out that it is extremely hypocritical to claim that Aemond and Aegon are unloveable because of the terrible things they do, but Jace and Luke are loveable when they both do terrible things as well.

And here's the thing. Rhaenyra clearly loves Jace and Luke anyway. Why wouldn't she? They're her kids and she loves them flaws and all. So why is it any less believable that Alicent would love Aegon and Aemond? Why are Jace and Luke loveable despite their terrible deeds, but Aegon and Aemond aren't? And if Alicent choosing Rhaenyra, whom she loves, would be a feminist storytelling choice, why would it be any less feminist for her to choose to stay with her family whom she loves just as much? Why are Alicent's choices only Feminist and Radical when they benefit Rhaenyra?

Even if it were true that Alicent abandoning her family and becoming lifetime president of the Rhaenyra Fan Club would make for a more feminist story - which, to be clear, it isn't - my first priority is not for the story to be The Most Radical And Feminist™. I want the story to be good. And I do not think that making Alicent abandon her family for Rhaenyra would make for a good story. It goes completely against Alicent's characterisation to have her abandon the family we're shown time and time again that she loves more than anything else. Not only would that be a betrayal of her character, it would undermine the narrative as a whole.

For better or worse, these two women and their relationship have been made central to this story. They are foils and they've each been made into the figurehead of their respective teams in every way, down to the marketing of the show. It would simply be bad storytelling to throw off that narrative balance by having them team up. It would completely upend the story being told. The point of making Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship so central to the show is that despite their love for each other they were still driven apart and forced to become enemies. Having them reconcile would undermine the point that this story is a tragedy.

[indigoraysoflight]

I'd like to think that Lyanna would know going with Rheagar was a terrible idea. He was married! Was Lyanna cool with being a mistress? Or a 2nd wife, which wouldn't be recognized because The Faith doesn't condone polygamy. Wouldn't she be worried about any children she had being revivals to Elia's children. Also Lyanna should have known her family would try and get her back. She was a Stark of Winterfell, blood of the First Men. She wasn't a tavern wench to be used and birth bastards. (1/2)

(2/2). Or so was the mindset of the Starks andthe houses on Robert’s side during the Rebellion. It’s just hard forme to imagine any high born woman who grew up in the culture ofWesteros, with the family she had, to run away willingly withRheagar. Maybe she slept with him and already got her pregnant andshe was embarrassed/ashamed? We don’t get much characterization onLyanna, so it’s hard to say. I don’t have much sympathy for Rheagar,though for abandoning his wife and children.

                                                        —

Lyanna was known to have a wild spirit. I thinkafter Lyarra’s death she didn’t have a motherly figure that shereally looked up to or even listened to. And as Starks follow the OldGods, she wasn’t exactly cared for and disciplined by a Septaunlike Sansa and Arya. Not to mention she was barely fifteen when sheran off with Rhaegar, I don’t see her being very mature at thatage. Rhaegar was supposed to be quite handsome, so I can see herbeing smitten, especially when he gave her the crown of blue roses. Although I do believeshe slept with him before she ran off with him,  I don’t think it was embarrassment that made her go with him. I think she became infatuatedwith him, he definitely tookadvantage of her naivety. 

I think Lyanna was too young to understand therepercussions of her decisions, but I think in that moment she didn’treally care much about the future and also didn’t expect it to bethat big of a deal. I don’t think she ever thought far ahead to actually worry about her kidhaving to compete with Elia’s children. It was a spur of a moment decision. She was barelyfifteen years old, she’d just wanted an escape from her betrothal to Robert (who she knew would never be faithful). I think Rhaegartold her how unhappy he was with Elia and she saw herself being justas unhappy with Robert in the future. And it was her own way ofrelating with Rhaegar, so when the opportunity came she went with him willingly. But I do think he manipulated Lyanna into believing she could have a wonderful future with him. She likely wanted to contact her family once she thought about what her decisions could do to them, but soon realized she was held captive and really couldn’t do anything but wait. And after her father and brother were murdered is when the consequences of her decisions dawned on her. I think she deeply regretted what she did, but she still cared for Rhaegar, so she felt torn and helpless. 

I’m not a fan of Rhaegar to be honest. I see himas a charismatic and a level headed version of Viserys. But he was infatuated with her, although I think itwas more of a possessive infatuation. He wanted her to be his wife,no matter the consequence, so he could get a ‘Visenya to hisRhaenys’. He was obsessed with that (thats what I got from what I’veread and researched). And Elia was quite frail and wasn’t in thecondition to have another child, so he needed to find another source.Lyanna was perfect; she was young, beautiful and unhappy with herbetrothal. Targaryens were known to have multiple spouses, even ifthe faith didn’t condone it, if their wives didn’t mind it wouldn’tbe a be deal. Also, I dont think he abandoned Elia (still a scumbagthough), he just wanted both Lyanna and Elia (*eyeroll*). And he was theprince, so as long as the King accepted Lyanna, he could do whateverhe wanted. And on top of that, I think it was actually Aerys whowanted to recreate the trio of Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. (Also Jonis technically a prince, not a bastard, because Rhaegar marriedLyanna)

I do want to make it clear that I don’t condoneany of her decisions. I think they were very selfish decisions madefrom someone who really should’ve thought of the consequences herloved ones would have to face. I also was angry that her decision notonly caused so many casualties, but it also caused long term emotion pain. It affected Jon’s upbringing,was the root of Catelyn’s fear for the threat to children’s future and Ned’s fear for his family’s safety. Sheand Rhaegar made their decisions, andothers in the seven kingdoms ended up suffering the consequences long after they were dead. But I blame Rhaegar much more than Lyanna, heknew exactly what whisking her away would cause, he knew his fatherwas unstable but he just didn’t care. Lyanna on the other hand wasquite young and definitely naive when she made those decisions andalthough it doesn’t excuse her actions, it explains why she took them.