#I trust the duffers will give them a happy ending

[alreadycrazystuff]

i think the worst scenario for us byler shippers is not mileven being endgame, but rather the fact that ST ends and never confirms whether byler is canon or not. or if the duffers show that mike returns will's feelings but does nothing about it, and in the end we the audience are left questioning or creating scenarios that maybe the two ended up together... or not

[idioticbaguette]

So... that David thing is pretty disheartening huh.

I don't want to believe that they truly have written Will's story to be about unrequited love, but I don't really know who to trust with queer storylines anymore.

If the Duffers want to finish off their show with an obvious, repeatable, and unoriginal ending so be it. If they don't want to preach their own shows message from WITHIN THE SHOW, then who am I to complain. If the show about feeling different, being different, and embracing those differences ends with an unhealthy het couple, OVER the queer one then I truly did give the Duffers too much credit.

It hurts like hell, because it was right there, right in front of them, and they just decided to throw it out??

This show could've and still could make history, both within lgbtq+ spaces and outside of them, but I'm extremely worried that we may have trusted the wrong writers with that responsibility.

I don't believe the Duffers would change the storyline due to Noah's behavior, (btw, what the fuck?? hello?? You're a grown ass man sir, keep your horrifying political opinions in your own skull and out of the ears and eyes of impressionable children please) If they did change it, not only are they cowards, but they're idiots. If they're so worried about him, fire his ass? recast Will? But, truly I don't believe they'd do any of that to begin with.

I still want to have faith, actors ACT, they lie to the press all the time, but this one scares me. I just hope that all the young queer kids that watch st, that root for Will or byler, realize that, despite what this show may be telling you, you do not have to settle for acceptance, you don't have to settle for 2nd best. You DO NOT have to put your feelings on the line to make others happy. You can be loved, and ARE, and SHOULD BE.

And I hope that the kids who may get reinforcement that you should stay in an unhappy, unfulfilling, loveless relationship learn that it's untrue. If your partner is making you unhappy, courtesy of El, dump his ass. If you feel unloved, dumb his ass. If you think your emotions are not being taken into consideration, dump his ass. If he needs his back rubbed and positive affirmations whispered into his ear by his "best friend," before he can tell you that he loves you, dumb his ass.

Anyways, I know I'm not helping here, but have hope. Remember that we cannot be told the ending, an actor cannot give us the answer we want, especially regarding situations like these. Byler canon is still possible, and it will hit harder than before knowing how many people may have given up on it.

[will80sbyers]

The Duffer will never go against the fans and they know GA don't want Byler but Mileven so I don't trust them. They will give Will a beautiful ending without Mike or leave all open in the end with Eleven Mike and Will all single and happy. Do you really trust The Duffer for Byler endgame?

Yeah, I do!

I don't think the Duffers care about what the fans want, both for bylers fans and mileven fans etc... they are following the narrative they have decided and the story they want to tell

and I think at this point the GA doesn't care that much about Mileven anymore, many have started to dislike them because the writers destroyed the relationship in the last two seasons on purpose...

plus with byler endgame they have the opportunity to make history, if they are smart and I think they are, they will do it

[storygremlin]

I just want the Duffers to know that if they give Will his happy ending with Mike, Stranger Things will officially be in my top 5 favorite tv shows of all time.

But if they fuck us over in this, which I highly suspect they will because I do not trust Hollywood at all, there will blood. I will hunt them by scent and come in the night and they will not survive me.

Excited to see what they do for S5 🥰

[digestionsack]

El’s Playlist Part Three: The Very Interesting Ones (They don’t really tell us anything we don’t know, but they were still very informative)

1: “Papa Don’t Preach” by Madonna

So it’s pretty easy to tell that this is about Brenner. Unfortunately, as I was going through this playlist, I often had trouble distinguishing between the Mike songs and the Brenner songs (DUFFERS STOP PARALLELING MIKE TO BRENNER CHALLENGE: IMPOSSIBLE), but this song is clearly about Brenner (the use of the word “Papa”). I think this can reflect El’s sentiments towards Brenner that she vocalizes in S4, and they have been present long before that.

“Papa I know you're going to be upset/'Cause I was always your little girl/But you should know by now/I'm not a baby”

“I may be young at heart/But I know what I'm saying”

These two lines (“young at heart”) I really like, because this becomes a reflection of El’s character that’s repeated in this playlist. When she is sure about something that she wants, she will stand firm. When she put down Brenner’s hand in S4 and walked away, she did not look back. This is El’s message to Brenner that she will chose what’s best for her, regardless of what he says. He has shaped her worldview, but she is finally figuring out what she needs.

Brenner didn’t respect El’s decision to leave him and his manipulation. Until the end, he was still trying to get her back on his side, so she left him because he wasn’t giving her the respect she was asking for.

Adding onto that…I know ST is a drama and so we probably won’t get this, but Mike has the opportunity to break his parallels to Brenner by accepting El’s breakup and respecting her decision. Besides the fact that this would be a super healthy portrayal of a breakup, Mike taking a step back and trusting El to do what’s right for her and them would be subverting what Brenner did, and El would not cut Mike out of her life like she did with Brenner. I’m not totally happy about all the Mike/Brenner parallels since Mike is a 15 y/o confused kid (I’m not excusing Mike’s actions, he still needs to apologize, but Brenner was knowingly manipulating El and I think “abuser” is a very extreme term to slap on a literal kid when we have other abusers who know they’re being abusive, perpetuate the cycle of abuse, and who’s actions need to be discussed such as Billy, Lonnie, and Brenner). But I think there is still a chance for Mike to subvert Brenner’s actions in a healthy way. I (and probably many other people) would love to see that!

2: “Buzzcut Season” by Lorde

Ugh, I love this song! Lorde’s lyrics are just so poetic, and they are great for analysis.

So after mulling over this song a bit, I came to the conclusion that it’s about El and Max, especially during S3. Let’s go into the lyrical analysis through that lens:

“I remember when your head caught flame/It kissed your scalp and caressed your brain”

A reference to the color of Max’s hair.

“Explosions on TV/And all the girls with heads inside a dream/So now we live beside the pool/Where everything is good”

“The men up on the news/They try to tell us all that we will lose/But it's so easy in this blue/Where everything is good”

These two verses represent Max helping El through her own growth and them spending time together. “The men up on the news” reflects Max’s “there’s more to life than stupid boys,” which helps El in her journey to realizing that the men in her life often do things that aren’t in her best interest, and she should “make her own rules.”

“And I'll never go home again/(Place the call, feel it start)/Favourite friend/(And nothing's wrong, when nothing's true)/I live in a hologram with you/We're all the things that we do for fun/(And I'll breathe, and it goes)/Play along/(Make-believe it's hyper real)/But I live in a hologram with you”

This…is juicy. It could have multiple meanings.

First of all, it could be referencing Max and El in the mall in S3. “Never go home again” and “favorite friend” are vague, but they support this interpretation pretty well. As for the whole “nothing’s real, it’s a hologram” thing…that’s interesting. It could very well be a nod to the themes of materialism in S3, or foreshadowing of some sort (like the fun El and Max have is the calm before the storm of the Mind Flayer). These lines in general also fit with the “fairytale” motif in El’s playlist that you see in several songs—nothing is as it seems.

The other way these lines could go is if they referenced El bringing Max back to life at the end of S4. This is my favorite interpretation, so I want to break this down by the lyrics:

“And I'll never go home again”

After *The Monologue* and El loses Vecna, we hear Mike calling for El to wake up. However, when we get into El’s mind-space, we hear nothing. Silence. She is blocking out all external noise, only focused on Max dying in front of her.

“(Place the call, feel it start)/Favourite friend”

“Placing the call” I think could reference El calling upon her happiest memories with Max, which starts up Max’s heart again (“feel it start”). El’s friendship with and love for Max is what saves Max (“favourite friend”).

“(And nothing's wrong, when nothing's true)/I live in a hologram with you”

I think the “nothing’s wrong” line is El remembering simpler times, the fun memories in S3. Not saying that those memories weren’t true, but I think this line could be juxtaposing the present situation with simpler times in El’s memories. And it’s easy enough to tell that “hologram with you” is probably referencing El going into Max’s mind, sharing the mind-space. They are separated from the real world for all intents and purposes.

“We're all the things that we do for fun/(And I'll breathe, and it goes)/Play along/(Make-believe it's hyper real)/But I live in a hologram with you”

Again, I think this is El tapping into her favorite memories with Max (“do for fun”), and the mention of breathing in this verse makes me more sure that this might be about S4.

“Cola with the burnt-out taste/I'm the one you tell your fears to/There'll never be enough of us”

Reflecting the intimacy of their relationship. Not gonna lie, the first time I heard/read this line I was like “that’s kind of….romantic.” Hey, I’m an Elmax shipper. I’m biased. Sue me 🤪

3: “Maniac Monday” by The Bangles

Let’s jump right into it.

“Six o'clock already/I was just in the middle of a dream/I was kissin' Valentino/By a crystal-blue, Italian stream”

I think this is a reference to S3 El and Mike—pretty self-explanatory, blue being Mike’s color and all. But I think there is some interesting things in here that might not be portraying their relationship in a good light. El has somewhat of a “fairytale/dream” motif, which is basically “nothing is as it seems. What people tell you is true and what you should want isn’t necessarily always what’s best for you. And dreams can be nice. But sooner or later, you have to wake up. And the next verse supports this:

“But I can't be late/'Cause then I guess I just won't get paid/These are the days/When you wish your bed was already made”

Sort of an “I have to wake up from this dream now” and the last two lines is giving “El emotional exhaustion” vibes. She’s tired of all the emotional turmoil and not receiving the love that she wants and knows she deserves.

“Have to catch an early train/Got to be to work by nine/And if I had an aeroplane/I still couldn't make it on time”

There are a lot of references to time in this song. Maybe foreshadowing some time fuckery in S5…or just Vecna in general. And it’s possible that “train” could reference Mike in some way, just because I’m thinking of the whole “running away” motif in Mike’s playlist as well as “Smalltown Boy” including lyrics about trains.

“'Cause it takes me so long (Oh, oh)/Just to figure out what I'm gonna wear/Blame it on the train/But the boss is already there”

Oh damn, if we’re going off the idea that Mike is connected to “the train,” this is interesting…”figure out what I’m going to wear” could be a metaphor for El finding her sense of self throughout the seasons, and if that’s the case, is this implying that “the train” is somehow hindering her?? Real tin foil hat theory lmao. “The boss” could be Vecna.

“Of all my nights/Why did my lover have to pick last night/To get down?/(Last night, last night)/Doesn't it matter/That I have to feed the both of us?/Employment's down”

Okay, this might be crazy, but I think this might have something to do with the timing of Mike’s monologue being right when Max is dying and everyone is losing…if so, this suggests that El is pissed off about the monologue (which we already guessed, but this supports it). “Feed both of us” could be referencing El trying so hard in the beginning to maintain a “normal” relationship but her and Mike not being on the same wavelength at all.

“Time it goes so fast/(When you're having fun)”

Reminds me a lot of what El said in the beginning of S4 about emotions making time speed up and slow down.

4: “Blow Your Mind (Mwah)” by Dua Lipa

So this is pretty much another El power anthem (there are a ton on this playlist), so it could just be on the “self-explanatory” list, but there are a few lyrics that were cool to look into.

“Fighting to fifths/Biting your lip/Loving too late in the night”

So “fighting to fifths” apparently can also mean “to plead the fifth.” What does Google have to say about this? “To plead the fifth means to refuse to answer a question, especially in a criminal trial, on the grounds that you might incriminate yourself.” Remind you of anything? Mike Wheeler I know what you are. That last line could be a metaphor for “we’re drawing this out too long,” but that could have other interpretations as well, so I’m not putting too much weight in it.

“Tell me I'm too crazy/You can't tame me, can't tame me/Tell me I have changed/But I'm the same me, old same me”

Reminds me of Mike in S3 claiming that El and Max were “conspiring” against him lmao.

“And tonight I'm alive, ain't a dollar sign/Guaranteed, I can blow your mind, mwah”

I wonder if “dollar sign” is a reference to El not wanting to be identified solely by her powers. Sort of an “I’m more than just my powers, I’m a human person too.” And her big fuck you to people who can’t recognize that.

5: “Heads Will Roll” by Yeah Yeah Yeahs, A-Trak

Not gonna lie, this one was tricky. The lyrics are pretty cryptic. I did my best, but let me know if there’s anything I missed.

“Off with your head/Dance til you're dead/Heads will roll/On the floor”

So what I’ve noticed a lot in El’s playlist is that there is a certain “fairytale/dreams” motif. I may have covered this already, but for a recap, a lot of the lyrics, song tiles, and artists reference old stories, specifically Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz. “Off with your head” is one of many references to Alice in Wonderland.

“Glitter on the wet streets/Silver over everything/The river's all wet/You're all chrome”

Now do you see what I meant when I said these lyrics were cryptic? Yeah, the most I could get from this one was “silver over everything” possibly alluding to Vecna (“the silver cat feeds when blue meets yellow in the west”). I notice there is also quite a lot of references to water. I have seen several people talking about how water might actually be the Upside Down��s weakness, since there is no water there. Kind of a reach for this song, but if anyone knows more about that theory and wants to apply this, here you are.

“Looking glass/Take the past/Shut your eyes/Realize”

Ooooh, this is good. El in S4 Project Nina, rediscovering her past, realizing she’s not a monster. Nice bit of foreshadowing there…

6: “Dog Days Are Over” by Florence + The Machine

I think this song has a lot of elements of El’s story in it—from plot points to her relationships.

“Happiness hit her like a train on a track/Coming towards her stuck still no turning back/She hid around corners and she hid under beds/She killed it with kisses and from it she fled”

I think this could possibly be referencing young El running from the lab and Brenner. When I first read the lyrics, I was a bit confused, because the context seemed negative but the word “happiness” was thrown in there—that caught me off guard. I think that just goes to show the nature of Brenner’s emotional manipulation and how that affected El—she wants happiness in a father figure, and in the beginning of the show, she thinks that that’s coming from Brenner. However, by the end of S4, she realizes that he was manipulating her the whole time and cuts him out of her life.

“The dog days are over/The dog days are done/The horses are coming/So you better run”

Especially after watching S4, these lines are giving me “final battle” vibes. It seems that every season there has been a kind of “El-ex-machina” storyline, and maybe this is hinting at the fact that S5 will shake up that narrative a bit.

“Run fast for your mother, run fast for your father/Run for your children, for your sisters and brothers/Leave all your love and your longing behind/You can't carry it with you if you want to survive”

I think this is another nod to El’s arc throughout the show—an arc of self-discovery with an emphasis on familial and platonic love. Nowhere in here do I see a mention of romantic love (the closest you could get with that would be “leave all your love and your longing behind,” which might not mean familial love because the love for family is already emphasized in the previous lines—maybe this implies that one of the reasons El could break up with Mike is because she wants to focus on her familial/platonic relationships).

“And I never wanted anything from you/Except everything you had and what was left after that too, oh/Happiness hit her like a bullet in the back/Struck from a great height by someone who should know better than that”

Another couple of lines about Brenner’s manipulation.

7: “Dead End Justice” by The Runaways

Jumping right into it.

“Long hot summers make me wanna fight/The roar of the city lasts all night”

Specific reference to the summer vibes of S3. Not too groundbreaking. Until they start referencing S4…

“In the naked city/Spaces ain't that pretty/As I was getting dusted/I happened to get busted/Oh yes, I was arrested”

A blatant bit of foreshadowing to El getting arrested…these playlists were made way back in 2017, you say?

“My brain began to fry/This is like a movie/I know I'm gonna scream/All the pain that I feel/Makes me feel mean/It's so sad and crazy here/I think I'm gonna cry/If I don't wake up from this dream/I think I'm gonna, gonna, gonna die”

So this can be interpreted many different ways depending on how you want to look at it, but I think (since this came after the reference to El being arrested) this might be about El’s time in the Nina Project. “If I don't wake up from this dream/I think I'm gonna, gonna, gonna die” is definitely foreshadowing Vecna, and also the dream motif in El’s playlist.

“Your in a cheap run down teenage jail thats where”

Oh yeah, if I wasn’t sure that this song was foreshadowing El’s arrest, I am now. This is the second reference we’ve had in this song alone, and I think there are other references in the rest of the songs on her playlist.

The rest of the song is one big jail reference. This was definitely foreshadowing.

8: “Cherry Bomb” by The Runaways

“Can't stay at home, can't stay at school/Old folks say, "You poor little fool"/Down the streets I'm the girl next door/I'm the fox you've been waiting for”

This could possibly be a reference to El running away to see her sister in S2.

“Stone age love and strange sounds too/Come on, baby, let me get to you”

This could be spun a couple different ways. I think “Stone Age love” could be another way to say “old love,” like El reuniting with her beloved sister after so many years. And “strange sounds” could be referencing El being in a new environment.

I’m pretty sure this song is about El visiting her sister. But there is this one little bit that is a bit dissonant with that theme…

“Hey, street boy, what some style?/Your dead end dreams don't make you smile/I'll give you something to live for/Have you and grab you until you're sore”

I wonder…could this be about Mike? If that’s the case, the lyrics “Your dead end dreams don't make you smile” are really interesting…could it possibly mean “dreams of conforming” and how it’s a lost cause? Also another dream reference…interesting.

9: “Let Me Go” by HAIM

Hehehe…

This is one of many breakup songs on El’s playlist. Like, there is truly a plethora.

The thing is, El had a “breakup” of sorts with Brenner—she cut him out of her life after he didn’t take accountability for manipulating her. So although I am positive that El will break up with Mike, you need to be careful with identifying the breakup songs on this playlist, since El has already cut Brenner out of her life and it can be easy to mix up the Mike and Brenner songs (which is honestly really sad. Like, can we not parallel Mike to El’s abuser for like two seconds? Duffers, please? It’s scary how many parallels there are). So when looking through these songs, I looked specifically for lyrics indicating romance, since that is one obvious difference between Brenner and Mike.

“But take on everything you can/If you go so easily/Go on, get out and set me free/But I'll wait/I won't wait till day you beg again”

This is an example of a verse that could describe both Mike and Brenner. El is expressing anger at not being treated the way she deserves to be, but there’s nothing specifically paternal and nothing specifically romantic about these lines. Until…

“'Cause together we are not one/We are nothing but holding on and on”

To me at least, “‘cause together we are not one” implies romance (like “together we are one” is a romantic line). So I’m going to read this as a Milkdud breakup song. Going off that, “holding on and on” implies trying to hold onto a relationship that is crumbling.

“So let me go/You know I'm not the one for leaving/You know i'm nothing without your love/I know I'm nothing without your love/So please go, go!”

This verse was a bit tricky. El being “nothing” without any specific person’s love is narratively dissonant, romantic or not. So I think this is supposed to be another inversion. But the whole “let me go” message seems to check out, especially with the whole “we’re trying to hold onto this relationship when we really shouldn’t be” message of the last verse.

10: “Bulletproof” by La Roux

Okay, another “breakup” song—so Brenner or Mike? At first I thought Mike, but going through it again I feel that this more foreshadows Brenner’s death and El’s confrontation. However, since the lines are so blurred, I’m going to analyze both possibilities.

“I won't let you in again/The messages I've tried to send/My information's just not going in”

Referencing Mike and El’s fight (pre-“from El”) and the enormous amount of miscommunication that’s going on there. This also probably references El calling out Brenner on how he affected her and Henry and Brenner still refusing to take accountability.

“I won't let you turn around/And tell me now, I'm much too proud/To walk away from something/When it’s dead”

Foreshadowing El putting down Brenner’s hand and walking away when he refused to take accountability for his manipulative actions. It could also foreshadowing El realizing her relationship with Mike is dead and breaking up with him.

“Do, do, do your dirty words/Come out to play when you are hurt?/There's certain things that should be left unsaid”

This verse applies to both Brenner and Mike, but I think it applies more so to Mike, because when Mike says stupid shit that hurts other people it’s because he is hurt and projecting (not an excuse; a reason). Brenner knowingly manipulated El for years. He didn’t need to be hurt in a particular situation to do so, he just did.

“Tick, tick, tick, tick on the watch/And life's too short for me to stop/Oh baby, your time is running out”

A reference to time, which could be hinting at Brenner’s involvement with Henry. “Your time is running out” alluding to Brenner’s eventual (actual) death. On the Mike end of things, this could foreshadow Mike getting Vecna’d and possibly (temporarily) dying, and also El breaking up with him. Yikes, this kid’s gonna have a time next season.

11: “Because the Night” by Patti Smith

So this is pretty clearly a love song (lyrics here), which is probably about Mike and El (at least during the earlier seasons). And I was going to leave it at that, but some of the lyrics caught my eye…

“Have I doubt when I'm alone/Love is a ring, the telephone”

In the context of the song, the narrator is saying that whenever they have doubt about their lover’s feelings towards them, a loving phone call (from their lover) quickly erases that doubt. This caught my eye specifically because of the phone reference. Do we have…any proof whatsoever that Mike ever called El in Cali? Like, we know he sent her lots of letters, but it’s never implied that he called her. Even at the end of S3, he talks about using Cerebro to contact her, not the phone. And this makes sense—phone calls can be tracked by the government, which is the last thing they want. And even then, Cerebro remains at Dustin’s house (calling Suzie at the beginning of S4), so it’s implied that Mike didn’t actually “steal Cerebro.”So…Mike doesn’t call El. He writes or “uses Cerebro.” So from that and the context of the song, we can infer that there is doubt present about the state of Mike and El’s relationship because there was no phone call from Mike to El. Mike and Will on the other hand…well. *Drops mic to adjust tin foil hat*

“The way I feel under your command”

And this makes me think, “okay, wait, is this another subversion?” Because El has never been under Mike’s “command.” The only person with which she had no power in a relationship was Brenner (at least until S4), but this is a romance song…wild.

“With love we sleep/With doubt the vicious circle/Turn and burns/Without you I cannot live”

Another mention of doubt in the relationship…interesting. Makes me think of the song that was playing when Mike and El were making out at the beginning of S3 with the lyrics “just a little uncertainty can bring you down” (I had to rewatch the scene to get the lyrics…ick). What I think is weird is that there is always some reference of “I can’t live without you”—which we know is untrue in El’s case. So is this another funky subversion? It’s all so up-in-the-air.

12: “Just a Girl” by No Doubt

“Take this pink ribbon off my eyes/I'm exposed and it's no big surprise/Don't you think I know exactly where I stand?/This world is forcing me to hold your hand”

This verse specifically seems to be a metaphor for the societal message of “little girls need to hold a man’s hand,” specifically in this context a “father’s” hand—especially how Brenner is trying to convince El that she needs him (which she obviously doesn’t, and she eventually figures that out).

The “pink ribbon” I thought was a really interesting metaphor. I think it represents El realizing that the men in her life are not treating her the way she wants and deserves to be treated. The pink ribbon coming off could represent El’s slow realization of this and the lies Brenner feeding her falling away and no longer blinding her, all culminating in her leaving Brenner at the end of S4.

The “know where I stand” part is pretty fitting to El, especially by the end of S4. She very perceptive and very smart, and you see her awareness of the state of her relationships grow over the seasons, especially in S4.

“The moment that I step outside/So many reasons for me to run and hide/I can't do the little things I hold so dear/'Cause it's all those little things that I fear”

This one’s pretty self-explanatory—it’s referencing El’s time in the lab.

The rest of this song follows this same pattern and tackles the same themes (feminism, feeling trapped, etc.), which is pretty on-brand for El’s playlist.

13: “Midnight Music” by The Runaways

Oh, this one was very fun. After looking through the lyrics several times, I think this song was foreshadowing at least a portion of the final battle (mostly the Hawkins side of things).

“Out here in the smokey places/Looking into those empty faces”

I’m thinking that this could be a reference to the UD and Vecna’s victims. If we’re tying this into El, this could possibly represent how she can see into the minds of people being Vecna’d (specifically with Max).

“Making midnight music/Singing rock and roll songs”

Oh, is this a reference to Eddie’s guitar solo? Niiiiiiice.

“Back here in this cold hotel/I'm bored but you can tell/Your smile said we did OK/I'm glad we had a chance to play”

“Cold hotel” could be a metaphor for a lab setting—probably Project Nina in this context, which would remind El of being back in the lab she was in when she was a kid. Or it could be referencing El’s memories with Henry in Hawkins Lab. The last three lines could be referencing Henry or Brenner—I think it can be read either way. The last line shows that she has taken control of her relationship with one (or both) of these people and let them go. Could the last line be referencing El and Henry playing chess?

“From the plane I see the back roads/Your twilight cities your super towns/From the stage I see the drifters/Lost souls who ain't been found”

I wonder if “plane” could be referencing the Russia plot line slightly—but that’s probably a stretch. “Drifters” and “lost souls” could be referencing Vecna’s victims.

“We live inside your own heartbeats/We share the falls you take/Everything feels like it's about to break”

Could be foreshadowing the giant loss at the end of S4 and also Max’s heart stopping and then restarting.

14: “Trouble” by The New Respects

“Well, this time I want to be done/I want to be, yes, I want to be done/Because I could be a warrior, be a hero, be a saint/But trouble keeps on blocking my way”

I personally interpreted this as El being tired of being put on that “hero” pedestal—not just by Mike, but everyone. This would be especially true after S4 when she has finally learned that “hero” vs “monsters” is too extreme a dichotomy to base her sense of self worth off of—it’s just not realistic or human, and he knows that by the end of the season.

Then again….it kind of also sounds like El is staring evil full in the face here and saying “I will fight,” and if that’s the case, including the word “hero” was an interesting choice, because by the end of S4 she is not using that identifier anymore.

“I'm done, saying things nice/Now you better back up off of me/Because you're on super thin ice/And when it breaks things I'm going to get ugly”

Could mean that she’s done playing by everyone else’s rules, especially the ones made by the men in her life. This is emphasized by the memory montage when she was bringing Max back to life (“we make our own rules”).

15: “A Place to Run From” by Janne Schra

Oh, THIS one is fun. I’m going to have to break it down line by line…

“Time's speeding up/Can't keep up with the news”

This brings to mind El’s comment about emotions and how they can affect time (which she writes about in her letter to Mike). A bit unrelated: I wonder if El’s line could be foreshadowing to the high probability of time-fuckery next season, and how emotions will play a big role in that. Maybe tapping into Henry’s emotions is what will start goofing up the time, and maybe it will be the key to defeating him. This is not a fully-fledged theory; I’m just spitballing here.

The line about the news reminds of that line in “Buzzcut Season”—“The men up on the news/They try to tell us all that we will lose.” Could this line be about the expectations of Brenner/society on El, and how she is having trouble conforming to them (because she shouldn’t have to)?

“I'm playing Russian roulette/I need a place to run from to call home”

The mention of Russian Roulette here is pretty telling…imo, this solidifies the fact that this song is about El feeling lost in the beginning of S4, looking for any sense of stability to cling to in the wake of the loss of Hopper and moving away from the only place she’s ever known.

“Aggression isn't the answer/But I like the taste of blood”

I think this is probably in reference to El hitting Angela with the skate. And this is what we’ve all been saying: El knows that hitting Angela didn’t fix her problems or make her feel better, but coping with violence is something that people have expected from her from a young age. Now that she doesn’t have powers, we are shown the fallout of the violence, and El is realizing (as we see during her fight with Mike) that the circumstances under which she uses violence to deal with her emotions greatly affects how she appears in the eyes of the people around her.

“I miss love In his mansion/I miss Italy Italy and Italian food/I miss compassion in how I do/I miss you”

I think this song is introducing us in the beginning to how El is having trouble coping, and then these lines show us that one of the reasons (the main reason) is because she is missing Hopper. “Russian Roulette…” “Italian food” (in reference to Enzo’s)…

“I wake up with many layers, perfection is the goal/You got to peel a long way if you wanna reach my soul”

So if we’re taking this in the context of El still struggling with the loss of Hopper, she is trying to find that sense of stability in her new life—she’s trying to put on this facade of everything being perfect, especially with Mike, but it all falls apart because she’s looking for a sense of perfection that is unattainable. Same with how she views herself—her internal battle in S4 between “monster” and “superhero”—and how she realizes by the end that that’s not a healthy image of herself to hold.

“Ohoh community pressure they say I'm missing out/Don't know who my friends are but I like everything they talk about”

The first line is pretty self-explanatory. El feels excluded by her peers at school, who bully her relentlessly. El hates them, yes, but what the second line suggests is that she also wants their outward appearance of being “normal” as a way of finding stability, and she is romanticizing the facade of perfection that Angela and her friends put on.

16: “Wicked Ones” by Dorothy

“This night ain't for the faint of heart/'Cause the faint of heart gonna fall apart”

I’m thinking (and this theory is supported by Mike’s playlist) that “night” is a metaphor for the Upside Down, which makes sense especially in the context of these lines. Also, could “heart” be a reference to Mike? I think the main purpose of these lines were to establish that “night” metaphor, but food for thought.

“This night ain't for the holy man with the holy plan/For the promise land/This night we got the evil hand/And the evil hand gonn' raise the dead”

So it continues off the “not for the faint of heart” thing for the first line. Here’s a random theory: What if either El or Will leading a group through the Upside Down, which shows their abilities to navigate it? Maybe they assume some sort of leader role (Main Character Will Byers is already confirmed, so we might see this). The last two lines are a bit funny…we know that El can raise the dead (as she did with Max), but she isn’t evil (unless they pull a whole ass plot twist on us next season, the chances of this being slim to none). So can Henry raise the dead as well?

“This night ain't for the faint of heart/'Cause when the train wreck comes gonna leave them out”

So the first line is repeated—but the second line is making me think of this post, which points out how Nina’s story about waiting for her lover’s train that never came could be a metaphor for El’s experiences. If it is, this could be a metaphor for how some of the relationships El has are not turning out to be the best for her (notably, Brenner and Mike). If this isn’t what this line meant, it’s probably foreshadowing the Everything Gone to Shit ending we see at the end of S4.

17: “Head Over Heels” by The Go-Go’s

“Been running so long/I've nearly lost all track of time”

This got me thinking that this song is foreshadowing Vecna and time-fuckery, not just in S4 but possibly in S5 as well.

“In every direction/I couldn't see the warning signs”

So if we’re going off the idea that this is about Henry/Vecna, it’s possible that this is referencing El trusting Henry and the realizing he was using her the whole time to get the chip out of his neck.

“I must be losin' it/'Cause my mind plays tricks on me”

Oooh, yeah, definitely referencing Vecna’s visions/curse here. But this could also be about El’s own memory, and her journey through her past in Project Nina.

“It looked so easy/But you know looks sometimes deceive”

Again, this is probably about Henry tricking El in the lab. I’m aware that there are probably other angles from which to tackle this, but if I’m going off the previous lines of the song, I’m personally interpreting this as being about Henry.

“No more connections/I don't need any more advice”

Once El realizes that Henry has been using her and wants her to join him, she becomes angry and refuses. This could also apply to many other people/relationships in El’s life, especially her relationship with Brenner. She didn’t want Henry manipulating her and is ready to kill him when he hurts her friends, and once she realizes that Brenner has been manipulative, she cuts him out of her life as well.

“Been running so hard/When what I need is to unwind”

What I’m picking up through this line and other lines in songs scattered around El’s playlist is that El is tired of playing the hero—especially as she realizes through S4 that “hero” and “monster” are unrealistic descriptors. Personally, I’m on her side with that one. I hope S5 has an ensemble cast hero moment, rather than putting El in the “El-ex-machina” role again.

“I've waited so long/So long to play this part/And just remembered/That I'd forgotten about my heart”

Like I said about the previous lines: before the ending of S4, El was so aware of what people saw her as and her role in saving everyone that she was not able to have a healthy image of herself. Those unrealistic expectations (on El by herself and by the people around her) caused her to stray from what made her her, and she feels like she has to put on a show or play a role.

18: “Stuck” by The Aces

I’m honestly just thinking this song is yet another one condemning Mike and El’s relationship. How many of those are on this playlist again? Like 5+? Seriously, Spotify could just call this playlist “Breakup Jams” and very few people would question it. I really don’t have much to say about this song, so I’ll just copy down the most condemning lyrics:

“We talk/Talk 'till we're blue in the face/The words/The words don't resonate/Seasons/They always seem to stay the same/Holding/On to things we said we would change”

This entire verse (imo) describes Mike and El’s relationship in S4 especially. I mean, not even just with the “blue” thrown in there. They try to get through to each other, but they just can’t understand the other person’s feelings. They each can’t give the other what they need or want in a relationship. I won’t even expand on that, because if you’re reading this and you’re a Byler, you already know what I mean. And the lines about “seasons” and holding on to things that never change and need to be let go…yeah.

“Too little, too late/I know that's what you’re gonna say”

Could this be El talking about all of Mike’s apologies? He tries to defend himself in her bedroom when she calls him out for not saying I Love You, but when she leaves, she leaves a note that says “From El” instead of “Love El.” By the time Mike actually does say I Love You, in my opinion, her time in Project Nina rediscovering her powers, her memories, and her perception of herself has shown her that, in the words of Millie Bobby Brown, “Mike just isn’t loving her the way she wants to be loved.” Too little, too late. She won’t wait around for him to get his shit together—especially after everything that happened with Brenner.

“I see it in your eyes, your eyes, your eyes/We ain't satisfied/Waste away our lives, our lives, our lives/We ain't satisfied”

This is why I’m sure that this isn’t about Brenner or Hopper. There is a certain “married couple who can’t file for divorce” tint to this—exactly how MBB described it. We know textually that El is dissatisfied with the state of her and Mike’s relationship—she wants him to say I Love You but knows that he isn’t loving her the way she wants to be loved.

19: “This Town” by The Go-Go’s

So this song doesn’t have many lyrics, but from the few that are present, I think this is a jab at forced conformity and how it’s “killing the kids” (as Eddie says).

“We all know the chosen toys/Of catty girls and pretty boys/Make up that face/Jump in the race/Life's a kick in this town”

Right away, we see gender roles being established in the first couple of lines—one of the ultimate “conformity rules.” But it is hinted that those lines are all a front with the next line about “making up” a face, which could be a metaphor for putting up a facade. This is also hinted at in the “jump in the race” line, which makes me think of a line from “Mad World” on Mike’s playlist:

“Bright and early for their daily races/Going nowhere, going nowhere”

The whole song of “Mad World” is about the pain of the monotony of the world and societal expectations and ideas of “normalcy.” So “jumping in the race” in El’s playlist ties into that distain of societal expectations. I’d say this is all a pretty good summation of Hawkins. The people want to have that image of the “normal, all-American town,” but in reality, it’s anything but.

“This town is our town/It is so glamorous/Bet you'd live here if you could/And be one of us”

So this was definitely delivered in an ironic way; either that, or it’s a jaded vision—the people of Hawkins trying to keep up the facade of normalcy.

“Change the lines that were said before/We're all dreamers - we're all whores/Discarded stars/Like worn out cars/Litter the streets of this town”

So the first line is making me think of the phrase “flip the script,” which could be a metaphor for how forced conformity will only keep you in a box you’re meant to break out of. In the second line, I immediately see another addition to El’s “dream” motif, and the larger line itself suggests that everyone in Hawkins has something about themselves that they’re covering up, hurting themselves by trying to stay in a box. This line is saying that even though everyone tries to act “normal” and puts up that facade of conformity, none of it is real. There’s something about everybody that doesn’t conform, and they all have dreams of breaking out from the monotony.

20: “The Kids (Ain’t Alright)” by Grace Mitchell

So I know I mess around with the order of the songs a bit to classify them, but this song and “This Town” are actually next to each other on El’s playlist. I think if we’re going off the same idea as the last song (that the people of Hawkins are putting up a facade, trying to convince themselves of their “normalcy”), than this song expands on that theme, with more of a focus on the adults in this song coming to somewhat of a realization. This directly plays into Eddie’s “forced conformity…that’s what’s killing the kids.”

“If you came in late/Then you would have missed the early warning/Now we pray for our mistakes/Thrown right in our face, is no one sorry?”

So “late” and “early” are loose references of time. In fact, now that I’m thinking about it, this entire verse screams “Vecnafication”—but who? If we’re still continuing along the “people of Hawkins” angle, this could imply that Vecna will target the whole town in S5, not just individual people…forcing them to confront their own guilt and fears rather than putting up a facade…might be a bit of a stretch, but a fun theory to goof around with.

“Ooh, ooh, I've been so blind/Ooh, ooh, the kids ain't all right”

I’m sorry, did you say “blind?” Bro???? Yes, I’m the context of the song, “blind” goes along with “turning a blind eye,” but eyes are a huge piece of symbolism in S4–Vecna sucking in people’s eyes, Max (potentially) not being able to see anymore, Mike’s freaking sunglasses and how none of his “happy” moments with El have him completely looking her in the eye, Lucas about Patrick: “It was easy to look the other way…” I’m not saying I think that every single Hawkins resident will go blind (but I mean how crazy would that be if it happened right?), but using “blind” here has a lot if implications for the plot. The irony there could be kind of funny (not like funny “haha,” funny like “oh jeez”) if the town does end up getting Vecna’d—they turned a blind eye to the struggles of the kids and now they’re facing a monster that sucks people’s eyes out. Fun stuff.

“Why is everything so stupid now?/I've been drinking my delusions down”

So this makes me think that the people of Hawkins will eventually face reality, consequences for the way they’ve been forcing people into boxes. The way they treated Eddie, Will, Joyce, and Jonathon kind of hasn’t been fully addressed, and when he dies, the town still thinks he’s a murderer. I hope that when they bring Eddie’s arc full circle (the town realizes that he wasn’t actually a murderer), they will address these loose ends in regards to how the town mistreated the Byers as well.

“Now you get what you made/Land of the queer and patriotic/Playing it safe/You want me to finish what you started”

I interpreted this part as from El/the Party’s POV, like, “you’ve forced us to hide our true selves in order to maintain you crumbling and false image of normalcy, and you want us to continue pushing that message on the next generation and the generation after that, fuck that.”

21: “Dreams” by Fleetwood Mac

This song is…a bit trippy, if I’m being honest. It was a little hard to riddle out, but I’m going to give it my best shot. There are a lot of different interpretations this song could have, so bear that in mind.

“Now here you go again, you say you want your freedom/Well, who am I to keep you down?/It's only right that you should play the way you feel it/But listen carefully to the sound of your loneliness”

These lines make sense if they’re from Brenner to El, because that’s essentially what he said when El left Project Nina. But this could also be from El to Brenner, especially with that last line of “but listen carefully to the sound of your loneliness.”

“Like a heartbeat, drives you mad/In the stillness of remembering what you had/And what you lost”

So this could be about Brenner, how he lost El by refusing to acknowledge his abuse, and how he ended up dying. “Heartbeat” in the first line and “stillness” in the second kind of implies death—a bit of a stretch, but Brenner did end up dying in the show.

“Oh, thunder only happens when it's raining”

Actually, I want you all to go down two lines and read my analysis on the “when the rain washes you” line first, and then come back to this.

Okay, so going off my analysis on that line, this could be referencing big fights going along with truth being revealed after a while of lying. Brenner manipulated and lied to El for essentially her entire childhood, and when she finally realizes that, it’s like rain washing away all the dirt and grim and nitty gritty until you can see the truth. And with that truth comes El’s anger—thunder—at being lied to.

“Players only love you when they're playing”

A metaphor for Brenner valuing El only when she uses her powers for him? And using her powers to get to Henry? Checks out.

“When the rain washes you clean, you'll know”

First of all, I’ve heard a lot of people talking about water imagery in Stranger Things. I don’t know the breadth of that conversation, but to anyone who knows what it’s about and is looking for more clues, here ya go. Also, rain washing you clean could be a metaphor for the truth being revealed and the knowledge that comes with that, which makes sense if this is El talking about Brenner, especially when we consider her last monologue to him about how he was really the monster and manipulator all along.

“Now here I go again, I see the crystal vision/I keep my visions to myself/But it's only me who wants to wrap around your dreams, and/Have you any dreams you'd like to sell, dreams of loneliness?”

So we’re leaning into the “dream” motif here, and this is definitely hinting at Vecna and his curse. His victims keeping their guilt and visions to themselves until it consumes them, and then “selling their dreams” to Vecna, i.e. being killed. This could also be in reference to El suppressing her trauma memories from the lab, wanting to hide those moments from everyone—including herself.

22: “Bad Things” by Cults

This one’s pretty short, but it just about confirmed a couple of things for me.

“There's nothing like losing out so long/To the bad things I've done wrong/Right now I'm feeling so beat/Just wanna run”

Huh. So. These lines seem to more closely align with El’s mindset near the end of S4 rather than the end of S2. To me, this kind of proves that the playlists don’t mean nothing—and they’re not solely covering S2. I mean, that could still be the case, but if so, this would be just another crazy coincidence, of which there would be too many.

“I'm leaving this place is not for me/Please tell me, who are we?”

I wonder…does this reference El moving away from Hawkins with the Byers at the end of S3, or does it hint at her moving away from Hawkins for good at the end of the entire show? Both could check out—take your pick!

23: “Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)” by Eurythmics

I’m noticing that a lot of El’s songs hint to Vecna and his curse—especially with her “dream” motif, to which this song is yet another addition—and the forced conformity plaguing the people of Hawkins.

“Sweet dreams are made of this/Who am I to disagree/I travel the world and the seven seas/Everybody's looking for something”

This is really reminding me of the use of “This Town” and “The Kids (Ain’t Alright)” earlier on El’s playlist, which (in my opinion) comment on how forced conformity is keeping people from accepting and chasing the dreams they have that might not be “societally acceptable.” “Everybody’s looking for something” implies discontent with a current state of life—a dissatisfaction with conformist monotony, maybe?

“Some of them want to use you/Some of them want to get used by you/Some of them want to abuse you/Some of them want to be abused”

This verse, I think, comments on the use of power in ST—especially El’s powers. This pretty accurately described El’s relationships with many of the adults in her life—doctors, scientists, the government, especially Brenner. Very few of them see her as more than a weapon or a tool, and even though some of them acknowledge that she is in fact a human being with feelings, they still see her as a little girl who needs to be monitored. So many people have used El for her powers.

“Hold your head up, keep your head up, movin' on”

This provides a beacon of hope—an encouragement, saying that things will get better one day.

24: “We Got The Beat” by The Go-Go’s

This song is pretty interesting because when you first listen to it, it seems to be very upbeat and cheerful. However, when you really look into the meaning behind the lyrics, it takes on a much more sinister tone (at least, in the context of El’s playlist and ST) about the dangers of forced conformity. This is the third song El has on this playlist about forced conformity…interesting.

“See the people walking down the street/Fall in line just watching all their feet/They don't know where they want to go/But they're walking in time”

This could be commenting on the almost scary monotony that Hawkins has fallen into trying to emulate the “perfect small American town” vision. They’ve given up their hopes and dreams and are just keeping their heads down and falling in line.

“All the kids just getting out of school/They can't wait to hang out and be cool/Hang around 'til quarter after twelve/That's when they fall in line”

Same message as the first verse, only this shows us that kids are very much impacted by this “forced conformity” monster (just as Eddie says). This pairs nicely with the “The Kids (Ain’t Alright)” song that El also has on this playlist.

“Go-go music really makes us dance/Doing the pony puts us in a trance/The Watusi, just give us a chance/That's when we fall in line”

Whoa…hold up. Trance???? As in, Vecna’s curse? Again with this tin foil hat theory, but this would make sense if everyone in Hawkins ended up getting Vecna’d to a certain extent. They would all have to face the consequences of shoving down their true thoughts and feelings, and this would be the perfect time for Vecna to strike, seeing as their town is now in shambles—can’t pretend everything’s normal anymore. The things S5 could have in store…we’ll just have to wait and see.

25: “What’s Up?” by 4 Non Blondes

“I realized quickly when I knew I should/That the world was made up of this brotherhood of man/For whatever that means”

Fairly accurate—we’re acknowledging that the men in El’s life have had a lot more control over her than they should.

“Just to get it all out what's in my head/And I, I am feeling a little peculiar”

So, something about being in your head and feeling strange…could this be another references to dreams, trances, and/or hallucinations—all of which are motifs in El’s playlist? Could it be foreshadowing Vecna’s curse? Take your pick…

“And I try/Oh my God, do I try/I try all the time/In this institution/And I pray/Oh my God, do I pray/I pray every single day/For revolution”

So, this could mean a couple of things. First off, it could be referencing El’s time in the lab the first time, when she was a kid. It would make sense, since she wasn’t actually happy there but was trying to please Brenner. It could be a reference to El’s memories of teaming up with Henry to break out of the lab in S4. Or “institute” could be a metaphor for a conformist society. Either way, El feels trapped—and even if this isn’t referencing S4, El does feel trapped in S4 in more ways than one. I feel like this is going to all have to come to a head in S5–and the fallout will be interesting…

End of Part 3! Now for my “Holy Shit” list….

[milliebugydementia]

i wonder if vecna was just vecnaing specific people adjacent to the party to freak them out? like he knows that they're the only people that know about him and wanted to unveil his wicked plans in a dramatic way that would jostle them because he's very starved for attention and appreciation - i think this is why he would have picked will as the first victim because he is very similar to how he was as a kid, and he wanted to share his mind with someone else for once, have a companion to watch him tear down the world. especially cos will was already so fascinated about all things magical and otherworldly - i think some part of him thought will would admire him.

but then his other victims - chrissy, adam, patrick, and finally max. they dont really have anything in common aside from their trauma, and so whether that's supposed to be a commentary on how bad things happen to people of all backgrounds & lives (a popular girl and a popular black guy, a scrawny nerd, the three minorities) idk, but the only other thing they have in common is being close to members of the party. that could just be for screentime, but tactically it kind of feels like he's continually trying to torment the main characters of the show, cos they're the ones who already know about him, and he works his way inwards to the people around them before getting one of them. when he could have just targeted them all in one go and they wouldn't have figured out how to stop him.

i guess the reasonable explanation for this is that the duffer brothers wanted to drag out and add tension to taking out any of the main characters, especially cos they dont even have the heart to kill max in the end. and they wanted to give them a chance to actually be able to fight vecna when realistically all along he should have been able to kill any of them. idk all will be revealed.

but i do think the reason vecna would have targeted the main characters, besides just the fact that they're the only people that know about him, instead of going ham on popular and happy people like a true edgelord, is cos his frustrations with the world they live in arent matched by the gang. they're also weird freaks who managed to be well rounded and learn to be social. hes frustrated with them for not being jaded with the systems that equally rejected and hurt them, and for continuing to go about their lives within it as if they aren't freaks instead of getting swallowed whole by it like he has. like i imagine it's a kind of voldemort relationship where he gets pissed off that harry keeps fighting back like "you'll never know love or friendship" and refuses to be sucked into the very same void tom has gotten swallowed into himself, and just wants company inside of, even if that company is built on fear because it's all he can trust. like, he's very anti-humanity in general but particularly hates the humans who have been ostracised and seen the cruelty of other humans, and still maintain faith in them & in like colonialist structures. so i wonder if we'll see him get political or not? like take over hawkins, harness the power of nuclear weaponry etc.

[nausikaaa]

Idk if you missed it but Noah Schnapp came out himself as gay and has loudly been talking about how he shares that aspect with Will in canon. Will has been written as gay since s1 pitch, it's mentioned again in s2 script (ending scene), the information is literally out there for you to find. I know it's scary to trust a show again with it's rep after decades of queer baiting, I really do, but the writers aren't gonna back pedal on Will's sexuality anymore after s4, everyone involved with the show would get so much flack for it since it's been talked about by actors over and over again. But it remains to be seen how they decide to wrap up Will's story, will he get a happy ending. But him being gay is unarguably canon text.

okay, this seems like a good place to sum up my thoughts and then i won’t be engaging with this debacle any more.

so first of all i know Noah Schnapp is gay, and i’m super happy for him coming out, but i don’t think a gay actor necessarily means the character they are playing is gay, especially since Noah was cast when he was pretty young, and may not have known yet. maybe he did, maybe not. i don’t know. but it’s kind of insulting to his acting ability to imply he can’t play a character who feels and identifies a different way to him. acting is all about embodying a different person.

if he and the Duffer Brothers are discussing Will being gay in interviews and putting it in the scripts that’s also a good sign, but i don’t take interviews to be canon. to me, that’s word of god, and doesn’t count as the text of the show. my measure for whether or not something counts as visible queer rep is basically, could someone go in this show with no knowledge of who the actors or writers are, having never seen an interview or article about or, and still see that it’s gay? maybe you would argue they could through the subtext already present, but i literally watched this with my sister and she didn’t pick up on it, so not everyone can.

also, old scripts can be changed. apparently the Duffer Brothers already want to go back through previous seasons and re-record small bits of dialogue to change mistakes they made later, like changing Will’s birthday in season 2 after they forgot to acknowledge it in season 4. if those scripts were released any time after season 4 came out, i don’t trust them to be the originals one bit.

to everyone commenting and messaging saying “what, does he need to kiss a boy? does he need to say “i’m gay?” i’m so tired of coming out stories!” i get it, i do, i’m pretty over them too. but without any kind of confirmation, straight people, even ones not outwardly homophobic, can and will ignore it. i’m not asking for a coming our scene or big sweeping make out scene. but give us something. don’t you want him to come out to his mom, or his friends, or to hold hands or kiss a boy? he’s already cried, this argument is backing itself into a corner that makes it sound like you just don’t want to see happy queer experiences, you’re fine with Will being gay and miserable.

overall would love for Will to be confirmed as gay. but as you acknowledged in your message, i’ve been burned before. queerbaiting is still fairly common, and from what i’ve seen Stranger Things doesn’t have the best track record of keeping promises. did it they say before season 4 that that would be the season to explore why Will was the one originally taken to the Upside Down? i didn’t see that. and i’ve been many more people say things they thought for sure were gonna happen due to foreshadowing or interviews weren’t fulfilled.

so i, one individual who isn’t even that involved in the fandom, have decided to hold my breath. and i made one spur of the moment comment on a post that somehow snowballed into like 5 people bugging me about this for 12 hours straight. coming onto my posts and my inbox to explain subtext to me like i’m a kid. i’mm not new to this, trust me, that’s why i’m so jaded.

i know i’ll probably be ignored but can the people who have been non stop commenting at me please not go into the comments of this post trying to reignite the debate? i’m done. this is all i want to say. if you do, quite frankly that will just show me that you don’t respect my wishes, and maybe even didn’t read this post in it’s entirety, and i will just block you without reading your comment.

but if you did read all this, thanks for your time. you don’t have to agree with me, but you can clinic away and leave me with my opinions in peace. you can even wish that i’ll be proven wrong by season 5, because i would actually love to be. i’m just not holding my breath.

[starbylers]

I appreciate the fact they actually tried to make evidence-backed points but (this is so long omg sorry):

Byler only skyrocketed in popularity after s4 was released. Any claim that it becoming canon would be fan service is the real delusion. Fans love the ship because of how Mike and Will’s relationship was portrayed; the writing of the show came before the shipping. We didn't just look at two random characters and go hm imagine if they had great chemistry and a close bond and one of them was canonically in love, that was all the Duffers. We’re just picking up what they’re putting down.

Mike finding El pretty and kissing her - bisexual people exist, also wouldn’t him finding her equally as pretty with short hair just prove that he's not exclusively attracted to (stereotypical) femininity? Also, many gay people fully believe they are straight and date members of the opposite sex before figuring it out.

El calling out Mike's name in supernaturally dangerous situations just emphasises the fact their bond is rooted in trauma - she only relies on him when their lives are at stake, but when it comes to her emotional needs? She hides from him.

El knocked Max over because she made an incorrect assumption that Mike fancied Max, and then proceeded to literally run away and try to start a new life instead of just speaking to him. This is only the beginning of the unhealthy communication between them.

Mike attacking Hopper proves nothing except that he was extremely overwhelmed in that moment (and rightfully so, from his perspective El basically came back from the dead). This isn't romantic? It's a really sad scene, all of the guilt and trauma from El's 'death' that Mike has been holding in comes out here and he ends up crying while Hopper holds him saying 'you’re okay, you’re okay'.

Their 'ups and downs' include: arguing and breaking up 2 eps into the season after which Mike whines and complains about women instead of just communicating with El. And I don't want to hear that that was 'Hopper's fault' because 1) he was rightfully concerned about two 13 year olds spending all day every day doing nothing but making out, and 2) if Mike wanted to disobey Hopper, he could have. He could've just told El the truth about Hopper's threats and avoided all the drama, it really was not that serious. He ends up telling her at the sauna anyway, but El refuses to listen to him. Again, terrible communication.

Max did not induce a 'down', in their relationship, she simply told El that if Mike lies to her and doesn't explain himself, she should dump him. Like how is that bad advice? She tells her there's more to life than boys (extremely true and important, girls need girl friends), and they have so much fun together. El learns about being her own person with Max (something she canonically wasn't doing when dating Mike ('How do I know what I like?')). Their friendship is portrayed in a positive light in the show. The only contentious thing Max does is arguing with Mike about him being overcontrolling with El’s powers, but El ends up agreeing with Max.

Reconciliation = El kissing Mike while Mike keeps his eyes open and then El walks away without them discussing anything, and Mike looks extremely confused. 'He's 15' this is a TV show. All of their behaviours are meant to give you important insight into their dynamic and where the relationship is heading. And even if it was purely shock at El's words (I do think that was part of it), that doesn't equate to Mlvn endgame? Surely if Mike was truly so in love he would've been at least a little enthusiastic, even if he was surprised…?

Okay, the stuff about El's mental state at the beginning of s4 is all correct, but I'm sorry: 'she's so happy to see him that she lies just to be with him'. This is so awful??? Rinkomania was not the cute date they think it is. To love someone is to trust them to support you through hard times, and El doesn't do this.

Flowers mean nothing when the relationship is this bad. The only meaningful thing about them is the callback in the finale when El holds those same flowers, dying in her hand. Also, Mike dressed in El’s fav colours only shows Mike tries to change himself for El’s approval.

Why do they act like Mike went on this one-man crusade across the US to find El? All of them were super worried and desperate to find her, Mike did not do anything different. In fact, he’s more concerned about her dumping him than her safety (‘Mike, she’s gonna be okay’/‘I know she is…but what if, when all this is over, she doesn’t need me anymore?’).

I don't know how many times we have to reitarate this: Mike does not help her save Max. This is why I always say Mlvns literally just do not watch the show??? Mike's monologue indirectly led to Max's death (El didn’t get out fast enough), and then El used her memories of Max to revive her.

El switches hands all the time to use her powers, I've seen this take debunked on Twitter already. The hand Mike holds in the freezer, she uses it before this scene, at the helicopter explosion. And sometimes she uses two hands. This is not some 'special connection' thing, it's just a coincidence.

Their explanation of the Robin/Vickie parallel makes no sense. Robin was inbetween Vickie and her boyfriend and we know Vickie likes her back, hence why she's literally, visually, inbetween the couple. Following this logic, it makes sense Will is shown inbetween Mlvn because Mike likes him back. If it was just to show a person having a crush, Will and Robin could've had a solo shot staring longingly from a distance, but that's not what we get.

So in conclusion…everything they said either romanticised, downplayed or completely misunderstood Mike and El’s problems. Or they just speculated about what a character’s behaviours mean with nothing to back it up. Byler is endgame.

From a Mlvn’s perspective:

Here’s a person in Facebook, listing up points to why they think Mlvn is endgame. Thoughts about these?

[bylrlvr]

people i would trust enough to let them take part in creating byler’s storyline in s5:

• taika waititi. because. yes.

• shawn levy. because he has directed some of the best and most thrilling episodes. i also believe he is a byler at his core, and would not do them dirty. we thank you for your service king

• the byler fix-it fic writers. because you work harder than the devil, and your works need to be acknowledged and beautifully displayed on screen

• jeff t guy. because we need a lot of [tender, emotional music] subtitles included in s5 for obvious reasons

• taylor swift. because her songs are so bylercore, and she has a unique way of putting subtexts and coded messages in her storytelling as well

• noah schnapp. because he would put his whole schnussy into every scene with finn wolfhard and even improvise an unscripted kiss. he is a major byler, if you can’t tell by the 18372 times he has mentioned that. he is super talented too. even when the sufferbags decided to give him 10 mins of screen time in a whole season, he slayed every frame he was in

• finn wolfhard. because he would absolutely Nail It. i know he is itching to beat his bad actor allegations, the worst boyfriend in the world allegations, and the asshole friend allegations. he also needs to maintain his reputation as playing the struggling queer boy in love with his best friend. and this time with a happy ending (cough cough not end up like reddie)

• conan gray. because “let me tell you a story, about a boy and a boy. best friends with each other, but always wished they were more. cuz they loved one another, but never together, cuz they were too afraid of what they’d say. moved to different states”

• brett gelman. because he is for byler if byler is for byler. he would make sure to have murray spend some thought-provoking alone-time with the disaster gays

• leigh janiak. because she directed fear street and is the wife of ross duffer. she could convince her husband to bring a little more fruitiness into st (as @super-nova5045 mentioned <3)

• the 58k and counting people of the byler tag. because i mean, look at us. we literally glow. a lot of us here have already visioned our own versions of how s5 byler would evolve, in our heads. imagine the power we would have if we got to brainstorm all those concepts in the writers’ room. we deserve to put our genius ideas onto the tv screens of people who call us delusional. and also we remember will’s birthday ha

end slideshow

[gingerbread-in-july]

(The end of this post contains potential spoilers for ST4)

AU where after Max and Susan move, Susan and Wayne slowly strike up a friendship. Little by little, they become closer. Then one day, they start dating. Eventually, things get serious. Finally, Susan, Wayne, Eddie, and Max become the healthy, happy family that none of them had before.

After two shit husbands, Susan finally knows what it means to be with a good man and be treated right. She finally has a partner who is worthy of her love.

Although Wayne clearly loves and supports Eddie, he doesn't have to be a single parent and do it all by himself anymore.

Eddie has a steady mother figure for the first time. Susan has her baggage, but everyone in this show does. Eddie is a far better person than Billy, so he would probably be a better son. She would have an easier time loving him.

Max finally has a loving, supportive father figure that she doesn't have to live in fear of. Wayne would love Max. He's got a lot of experience caring for a kid who has been through a bunch of shit he shouldn't ever have had to go through. I think that part of the reason Eddie is such a sweet guy is because of Wayne's influence. He would be the same positive influence in Max's life that he is in Eddie's. As good a guy as Wayne is, however, if anyone were ever to mess with Max, he would shut that down real quick. And if that wasn't enough to deter anyone with ill intentions.....Eddie sure as hell would be. Older stepbrother Eddie would be protective as hell of Max.

Can we talk about the sibling dynamic between Eddie and Max? Because that would be every-fucking-thing.

That sibling bond that Max mourned never having with Billy? She would sure as hell have it with Eddie.

He would introduce Max to all kinds of cool music. Maybe even teach her to play guitar.

And she would teach him how to skateboard! He would absolutely be a klutz about it at first, but he would eventually get the hang of it- although he would never be as good at it as Max!

She would show him her comic collection. He would think it was so cool and they'd bond over that.

Maybe he'd even manage to drag her out to a few Hellfire Club sessions, although she would still act like she thinks it's lame.

Plus you already know he approves of Lucas. There would be Abso-fucking-lutely NONE of that bullshit Billy pulled. No one is a bigger Lumax supporter than Eddie. He definitely drags Max out to Hellfire in attempt to get them back together.

Eddie and Max would teasingly give one another shit, but they have each other's backs. They're protective of each other and God help anyone who decides to mess with either of them.

This is 100% what should have happened. Eddie and Max are two of my favorite characters that deserve so much better than what this show has given them.

Although what actually happened to Eddie and Max sucks, it would still be nice to see Wayne and Susan bond over having such terrible things happen to their children. They're both all alone now. They could be sources of support to one another because God knows they both need it. Although I won't trust the Duffers to do anything that competent.

Anyway, the Mayfield-Munson family lives on in my mind.

[bluebear-d]

Five act structure: reason to hope

I don't usually make posts on Tumblr, but i think after st4 maybe i should.

I agree with a lot of criticism for s4 and share everyone's pain. Hope all of you are well or at least getting there.

But here's something I've been thinking, so read on if you want to get another perspective or a little bit of hope in the magic of storytelling.

If the Duffers knew for awhile that they would have 5 seasons, they might have planned s4-5 together, a two-parter of sorts. So the reason s4 feels incomplete is because it is! And the reason it doesn't offer all the things the marketing implied is because those were meant for s5.

I think the Duffers are playing the long game using the 5 act structure. You can read about it on the internet, for example here is a good general article which i'm gonna quote a little.

I want to talk specifically about the final suspense, which is an important narrative tool occurring in act 4.

In 5 act structure, the forth act is where everything that can go wrong, does. It's the darkest before the dawn part, the part where we, along with the characters, lose all hope for things to end well.

It's like Sam's speech in The two towers: "how could the end be happy. How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad happened. But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer."

I think there's reason to assume this is the structure the Duffers are planning.

First of all, the show is 5 seasons long. What better way to structure it than with five acts?

Secondly, other seasons seem to fall neatly into this structure.

For example, s3:

If we go by this structure and try to imagine what s5 might look like, it also fits perfectly:

Sound familiar? After the brutal and incomplete s4?

So if we assume Stranger Things is supposed to have this structure (which i think is reasonable and highly probable), then s4 is exactly the season where everything is so wrong it seems to never be right again.

But a new dawn is just around the corner.

A new hope if you will.

So take heart.

p.s. I know we've waited three years for this and didn't get much of anything resolved. I know we're all having trust issues right now irt the Duffers' plan and writing, but i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. We've loved this show for so long, it gave us a lot, we put so much passion, effort, skill and love into it that i think it's not entirely fair to anyone to just abandon all hope and judge an unfinished show.

We're all hurt and frustrated right now, and afraid to be hurt again in two years. But hope is hardly a bad thing. Remember: the story is not over yet, and some wonderful storytelling just might be still happening.

p.p.s. With byler and Robin x Vicky and Will's potential coming out it's also possible that it's just not allowed to make any of that explicit until well into s5. It can be part of the deal with netflix or something, for fear that anything more than "up to interpretation" will cost the platform a chunk of its viewership.

It's a sad possiblity to consider, but I'm speaking from experiences with other shows and fandoms.

Just as an example: the creators of Steven Universe faught tooth and nail for a lesbian wedding and a kiss on screen, WON THIS, but immediately got cancelled and faught some more for additional several episodes to conclude the series.

Obviously, they aren't the same shows, I'm not saying it's the same situation.

But stuff like this still happens, unfortunately.

[tastywormfood]

I see ppl being excited about the last scene where jopper and jancy stands holding hands with byler in the middle, but I just can’t. After all this I don’t trust them anymore. I don’t trust they have any intention in making byler canon or giving Will a happy ending. This is Supernatural and Sherlock all over again. For all the byler shippers who still have hope, I’m glad you do. But there’s no way they can save their relationship and somehow make byler canon with out it being weird as fuck, and having Eleven heartbroken.

They were queerbaiting us from the beginning to end. Just like Sherlock. Just like supernatural. Remember how they kept implying johnlock after John got married to Mary? And even after she died? Remember how they kept implying destiel was mutual for all those years? Just to have Cas sacrifice himself for someone (who in the script) couldn’t reciprocate? Yeah that’s what this is.

Idk why I had hope for two cishet white men to write a genuinely good childhood friends to lovers story about internalized homophobia in the 80’s. They were so close to make Mike such a relatable character and to really make a meaningful relationship, but instead they made him a fucking asshole that was cold and ignored his best friend after a year of not seeing him. I genuinely think Finn wanted more, and not just this. His acting was too much on point for it to just be asshole behavior.

The spoon fed us fucking byler content for the entirety of pride month, cause they knew if they did all the hopeful queers would be sitting waiting the moment vol 2 came out. We all fucking fell for it. Cause you know, maybe this time, maybe this show won’t treat us like garbage, maybe this show will proof to us that we can find love and don’t deserve to sad, alone and a plot device for the main straight couple.

You know even the fucking leaks where better than this!! The leak about Mike confessing to El but looking at Will? It would’ve been bad, but it would’ve given us something. I’m trying not to be disappointed in Noah, he doesn’t deserve hate for hyping byler up as much as he did, and I genuinely think he takes us seriously and want byler to happen, but I’m just so tired. I’m so tired of straight actors who play queer characters thinking that smallest fucking crumbs covered in mud from being stepped on is good enough to keep is satisfied, they think as long as there is representation we will be happy. BUT THEY COULDN’T EVEN SAY IT. They couldn’t even have a scene where Will comes out. They just had him cry. Noah give it his all, and his acting this season was incredible, he should be proud. The duffer brothers should not.

I had such high hopes, but I am so done with this show.

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

I’m gonna preface this by saying that I hope Byler doesn’t end up being canon, and in my opinion they’re taking the route that Will is going to confess, and Mike will friendzone him as he doesn’t feel the same way. I want Mileven to be together as it’ll make me happy. Hope I’m not being aggressive.

Anyway. I don’t really understand what Duffers are trying to accomplish in the story now. They are making sure that we know Will is gay without stating it at this point. They are giving us Byler scenes that contain typical romance movie tropes. They are subtly trying to hint there’s a possibility that Mike isn’t in love with El. So what’s the point? Why are they basically going to have Mike reject Will and say he loves El? Why would you make it look like a story is going a certain direction (Byler + Single El) then proceed to make the opposite happen (Mileven + Single Will) in just few seconds?

Then them having Mike say in season 2 that asking Will to be his friend is the best thing he’s ever done (Not meeting the girl he’s in love with lmao), then in season 3 saying that she’s the most important thing to him in the world (I can’t believe what he said in the shed has changed and now that he became closer to El some memory with her replaced meeting Will?? I highly doubt that and if that was the case I’d laugh).

This semi-love triangle in general is confusing. Though they don’t know the fate of characters or what will happen, there’s copious amounts of Byler content on the various Netflix social media - to the point you can easily forget about the existence of Mileven - which there’s barely any mention of.

I don’t trust Duffers at all it just gives off bait vibes.

You're not being aggressive at all. I appreciate how you've respectfully addressed this with me considering you probably know my stance on who Mike should be with.

The only reason I could see for them to go with this love triangle is to compare and contrast the relationships. Sorry to say, but Mike and El just bring out the worst in each other. They rushed into a relationship based on one week together and one year apart, a year in which they built up fantasy versions of each other in their minds. When they finally did get together, they just didn't work. They don't know each other, they have nothing in common, and they lie to each other. Mike and Will bring out the best in each other, though. They do know each other, they have things in common, and they're (mostly) honest with each other.

I can't see any reason for them to set the narrative up like this if they didn't want us to compare how Mike is with both of them, as well as how both of them are with him. El was happier in season 3 when they were apart, and she showed more character (and personal) development. Much the same is happening now, as she hasn't really thought about him since she left, instead learning more about her past and probably finding closure with Brenner. Will is miserable when distanced from Mike, which makes sense when you realize they've known each other since kindergarten.

It would make no sense for Mike to reject Will. It does nothing for either of their stories, and, in fact, takes away all that Will (currently) has left in terms of a place on the show. It makes all the buildup for Will and Mike since season 1. Meanwhile, Mike and El got their buildup during season 2. They're no longer in that phase. We got to see them together, and it's just not good. It makes no sense for Mike and El to magically repair their problems, for Mike to magically be able to tell El he loves her and for El to no longer cling to him or lie to him.

There's no outcome for this that makes us both happy, I'm afraid, but this is the situation the Duffers have written. To me, there's only one outcome that makes sense with what they've set up. El is going to grow as a person, accepting her good and her bad, and realize that she was using Mike as a security blanket that she no longer needs. Mike is going to realize that he was in a forced relationship that started for the wrong reasons, just like his parents. Will is going to get the courage to tell Mike how he really feels. I suppose Mike could still reject Will and we can all be mad together, but that still makes his entire story a waste, in my opinion.

[strangerthings4theories]

“We've been talking about this stuff since Season 1, I think,” Harbour says. “And [the Duffer brothers] do have a very specific idea of the thematics of this show and what characters are allowed to survive a world like that, what characters need to be punished, what characters can't survive, because they're not wily enough.”

“They're very responsible with that storytelling, and I'm really excited to sort of bring the whole story to an end so you can go back and watch the whole thing and see what the arc of the thematics are,” he continues. “Because I think it's really a big, big canvas, but it's told very responsibly and very well once you see the end.”

--David Harbour in this fantastic article

The fact that David said this is making me feel some type of way.

I only started this blog because, during quarantine, I rewatched the show several times and noticed certain arcs and themes. The ones that intrigued me the most practically demand Billy's return and a happy ending for his story. I've tried my best to describe them here. I've also argued that we can trust the Duffers to give Billy that happy ending. Their filmmaking screams that they care. No really, it does.

To see David Harbour, an actor I respect, reference "thematics" and say the Duffers are telling their story "responsibly," is... well. It warms my cold little heart.

[bylerchoseme]

This volume felt really disconnected and it feels like such a separate show at times and idk how to explain it.

There must be an explanation for the final choices Of the scenes chosen in regards to Mike because if they were trying to really push mi//ven then why do we see Mike looking so fondly at Will. Make it make sense, I want to have hope I do but I’ve been burned too many time by so many shows. The Duffers have certainly lost a bunch of viewers after this mess

Volume 2 doesn’t exist. Episode 8 was amazing minus the van scene until the ending which made me lose all hope. Episode 9 was just a huge decline from the moment it started all the way to the end. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing and hearing. The only positive was Lumax but even they went through a rough patch. I don’t know what’s going to happen with Max.

I wanna say something:

Will is the best person in the whole entire world. He would rather his best friend whom he is in love with so much be happy than to see him suffer. He loves Michael Wheeler. HE TRULY LOVES MIKE. He is so in love with him. Despite the heartache, he is still by his side even though it’s the hardest thing ever. Mike is the luckiest person in the world to have Will. He will never be loved by anyone as much as he is loved by Will. Mike is Will’s ride or die. God bless Will. He only thinks of others before himself. He is selfless and a pure soul. I love him so much. He deserves everything. I just need and want Will to be happy for once in his traumatic life. He deserves the best and only the best. Will is an Angel. The world doesn’t deserve him. I wish I could give him a hug. I’ll always defend William Byers no matter what. Mike changed Will’s life. Will will never be in love with anyone else for as long as he lives. Mike has Will’s heart.

Don’t trust the Duffer’s anymore. It’s better for your own personal health. They’ve led everybody on with false beliefs. Nothing that was said ended up happening. They love torturing Will. Episode 8 and 9 is insulting, cruel, obnoxious, rude, sick, queerbaiting, disgusting, vile, and a bunch of other words I can’t think of right now. Will always has to pay the price. Unfortunately. This kid is a joke to them. He can’t ever be happy. The last two episodes of Season 4 are offensive too. I don’t consider them canon. As far as I am concerned, season 4 ended when Mike apologized for how he has been acting the past few days which was episode 4. Everything after falls flat. I don’t know this show anymore.

Honestly, Mike deserved to have a real character arc. I feel sorry for him. The writers ruined him completely. He isn’t the Mike we all love and know. It’s very sad. I don’t hate Mike. I am appalled. He had so much potential. RIP Michael Wheeler.

[munsons-maiden]

The Bros said:

"In a way, we saw Eddie as a bit of a doomed character," Matt Duffer said on the Happy Sad Confused podcast. "Even imagining the flip side of that where he does survive the battle is not a great life awaiting Eddie back in the right side up either. He was always really designed from the get-go as a doomed character."

Ross Duffer added: "There was never any other arc for him and there was no 'how do you survive this?'"

"At the very end, you see people still drawing devil horns on his head -- no one in Hawkins is going to accept a supernatural explanation for this. He would have wound up in jail and this fantasy that he would have been able to walk and graduate sadly was not ever a realistic outcome for him."

Not a realistic outcome? There is a place underground full of monsters, people with superpowers and all unrealistic stuff but a character graduating is too much for them?

But ok, Eddie graduating is a bit too much. Fine. But I don't buy this bs that death was the only option for him. He could go to jail or flee the city and become someone else. This is realistic too.

I agree with everything you said.

The Duffers are telling me that in a world where there's a parallel dimension, monsters, superpowers - and the military and government KNOW about it, KNOW that Eddie didn't commit these murders and already proved that they were able to fake El's birth certificate and relocate a whole family...that there was no way to get Eddie out of this mess? That they didn't have any ideas?

And they made itbso obvious. They love to subvert expectations yet they kept telling us that he'd die from the first episode, to the point where 99% of the fandom were absolutely certain he wouldn't make it out alive. That's very cheap, very bad, very lazy writing and such a horrible waste of the BEST character and one of the best actors in all seasons.

Stranger Things isn't Stranger Things anymore without Eddie.

And that's why I'm holding firmly onto hope that it wasn't the end of Eddie's story and that they needed to let him die this beautifully heroic yet utterly pointless death because they'll bring him back. I don't even care if they planned to bring him back all along or if they're doing it for the fans or the money, I just want and need him back alive and as himself, not some flashback or nightmare or possessed corpse but Eddie. Flay him, let him be saved like Will was saved, just give him back and give him the happy ending he deserves.

And clear his fucking name because Hawkins doesn't even deserve a single second of this man's presence.

And if they don't bring him back, that's such a cruel, horrible message for all of us who found a part of themselves in Eddie, on top of that.

But in a way, everything they said in that interview was ture if they already planned to bring him back but he needed to die before they could do that. If they, for example, planned for Dustin and the others to leave his body in the UD for Vecna to resurrect and flay him (like I hope/believe will happen), of course he needed to find his tragic end in ST5. Of course he needed to die for this storyline to happen. They could say these things and mean them and they'd be true in a way because it's still only the first half of the story. And that's the hope I'm clinging to.

As long as ST5 hasn't aired, the Duffers are basically reverse fairies: all they can do is lie at this point. They couldn't tell us if Eddie returned, and they could hardly keep their mouths shut about the death of the number one fan fave without it being suspicious so they would have to make it believable that he won't return even if he did.

I don't trust them. I mean, I believe them that Eddie won't graduate and that, even if he returns, ST5 will probably end with him leaving Hawkins behind after everything they did to him. But...not graduating isn't exactly the end of the world. It's not like not graduating equals a gruesome death at 19-21 years of age...