#I think I like the idea of a bigender woman who is simultaneously also a man and not a man at the same time

[pettybourgeoisblues]

If I was a woman I would be a man

[fuck-you-showerthoughts]

hello, I apologize on the behalf of my fellow angry people in your inbox.

I'm also a little angry but I'm doing my best to put that aside because I'm trying to understand you. Please understand that I'm not trying to hurt you with this or anything. This comes from a place of genuine intrigue (while also kind of mad).

Why do you feel the need to define yourself using the transfem label? I get that you think of yourself as approaching femininity from a masculine start point. You said earlier that it's a different, new kind of femininity, like two different sodas. How? Why? From what I understand being a woman is not choosing a monolith out of a henge but instead just identifying with a group. Why are you getting out of the group only to return to a different part of the same group?

I know men and other bigender/multigender/etc people who started as men, fucked around with being a woman or nonbinary for a while and then either returned to masculinity or kept it as part of them. None that I know of insist of saying they're transmasc the way you do. [I have also seen afab people do the same thing, I'm not making this a birthgender thing, I just used this example somewhere else] I myself, during a period of my life "detransitioned" from transwoman to nonbinary and I did not consider myself transmasc for that.

My kneejerk reaction is of course "fuck you, get your effeminate hands off my special little word" [I'm making fun of myself] but after reading through everything you posted recently and thinking about shit I'm asking myself why. Why do they want the word?

possible answers include:

they just want it

internalized misogyny causing them to grow disillusioned with their previous identity as a woman but they still feel like one and wish to return to it under a new pretext

genuinely feels like they have disconnected entirely with womanhood while transistioning and wants to reconnect

I'm doing a shit job of summarizing my feelings on this, I apologize.

Also, why do you refer to yourself as a trans^4 multigenderqueer (hyperbole) but still have your pronouns listed as they/them.

off anon because I think people who hide behind it are cringe.

hello! thank you for such an excellent breakdown of your feelings, and for taking the time to think about your own emotions (completely sincerely, I had a similar journey like this a while ago and getting rid of first impressions is HARD). I think the main disconnect here is the idea of masculinity and femininity being separate (inherently and for me specifically) -- like i said in the answered ask before this, I'm already both a man and a woman, together, at the same time. This, for me, means that both of those aspects of me are trans simultaneously -- I use transfem while being afab because my femininity is trans. (The same would be true of my masculinity had I been amab)

I can't leave cisfemininity because I never belonged there in the first place, and I would never abandon being a girl altogether, so to me the obvious (and quite honestly only) conclusion is queer femininity (which naturally mtf trans women are an immediate part of). The bullet point explanation you've missed here is that I use transfem because it's simply the most accurate word I've found to describe my identity, and gender limiting things in 2024 of all times just doesn't make sense to me :]

(Also I have they/them because that's what I'm most comfortable being addressed as by *checks follower count* almost 20k people. I use different sets with different people -- but also sometimes expression is a lot simpler than identity haha)

[divinedeathbed]

Dove (mostly Dove/John ship) lore master post GOOOO

Things are subject to change ofc when I learn more about Shoreside and we're given more information with new episodes.

General information ofc

She/they/he basically any! She's bigender so some days she leans toward a more masculine look or more feminine look. Gender at birth is ambiguous. I don't know where I lean. Both appeal to me and exist simultaneously. Shrodingers gender. Bisexual/pansexual :]

5 foot 5 inches tall (almost a foot shorter than John at 6'4")

She's 25 years old, birthday: 5/12/1998 (using the day I first ever talked about the concept of her, may 12th! 1998 since I asked when shoreside is set, and it's set in 2023, time just yknow catches up on you when you make things so in 2023 shes 25. John is 35 in 2023 so this makes him 10 years older than her)

She lives in Florida around the Daytona Beach area with her grandparents! I imagine she's originally from another state (coughs. Pennsylvania) but probably got sent down to Florida to be raised by her grandparents due to some shitty parent drama ofc.

She works in the local library with her grandmother. Does all the running around putting books away that the older librarians can't do. Outside of that she also helps her grandparents around the house. Very helpful woman. Does a lot of the yard work, puts up Christmas lights. She'd be unassumedly strong for how she looks imo.

Some of her hobbies include jogging, writing, drawing, reading, baking. Kind of asocial until you get to know her, then she's a silly fellow. Sarcastic by nature, but harmless. I named her after bleeding heart doves, and which bleeding heart can kind of be used to describe her. Very soft hearted and kind most of the time which can be detrimental lol. Lol. (Her working with John probably makes her morals more aligned with his overtime, changing her personality slightly to be more similar)

Uh. Random facts: She has really bad eyesight. Has an old fat orange cat actually named Garfield funnily enough. Shades of blue are her favorite colors. She smells sweet. Carries uh. A sketchbook, other miscellaneous note taking stuff. Always has candy on her hajfjsjdj favorite animals include ofc pigeons, cats, axolotls, snakes. Her music taste is very all over the place, she likes Frank Sinatra and other that era crooners thanks to her grandparents, while also enjoying hard rock music, metal, pop, some techno, punk. Her faaaavorite TV show is Twin Peaks. Good lord she can't shut up about it. Has a crush on Dale Cooper.

Rest under cut for length reasons. Some shoreside spoilers.

In 2011, when the massacre happened and pieces of people were washing up on beaches, Dove was ~13 at the time and remembers seeing that shit in person on the beaches of Daytona, and all over the news. Traumatizing! But puts a want to understand what's Going On till adulthood. Probably has a phobia about the ocean! Hahaha:)

I've been playing with the idea of maybe doves grandparents being involved in the house club? But I don't think they would be!

when she hits adulthood, and specifically in her 20s, she puts effort into researching this shit in her free time.

(A lot of this is speculation and not knowing shit after this)

The first time she meets John Gein (outside of seeing him on the TV back in 2011 when he used to work for CNN) in person, I'm sure it was because she was probably trespassing somewhere she shouldn't be while he was investigating the area simultaneously where he runs into her. First it's of course all suspicion and you can't be here, and he kicks her out.

She being the stubborn woman she is, she keeps showing up and keeps having run-ins with John who, out of some begrudging admiration for her dedication to discover things, reluctantly lets her begin helping him with the shit he's more interested in, and not the goals of the company he's working for.

(He's both relieved and annoyed that Dove doesn't want payment. Yaay he doesn't have to pay her and ugh. Unpaid labor. That's okay John the only thing she wants is you to pay for both of you when you go out to eat and discuss the things you've discovered)

They probably met and began this whole thing maybe a couple years before the events in 2023, maybe 2020 idk? She'd be just out of college. At first they're just uneasy acquaintances, but eventually as they continue working together, they become friends (as they grow closer you just KNOW dove is sending him silly memes. The more weird the better), the two warming up to each other. They both greatly appreciate each other and enjoy being in the other's company, at some point both crossing a "i have romantic feelings for you but neither of us have admitted this yet" threshold where their friendship holds a more tender feeling, where they begin sharing drinks ("one large strawberry milkshake please. No we don't need two, just one for the two of us please! :]") and what not.

Everyone assumes they're dating at this point. They're not yet, but ofc dove gets teased relentlessly by her grandparents. ("Ooohhh Doveee your boyfriend is here!!" "He's not- not my boyfriend." cue very amused John look. "Oh make sure you're being safe and protected!" Wink wink nudge. "MOM-MOM PLEASE.")

Do they love each other? Of course they do. I think it would inevitably be John to say he loves her first. He'd probably say it while she's panicking about something and being worried so he decides to like. Catch her off guard and get it off her mind via kissing her, which works! Works very well because sure enough she can only focus on him holding her, cupping her face and letting her know he loves her and not to worry about whatever she was freaking out about. Yaaaay entering the actually dating now era yippeeee

Cue them now actually doing couple things outside of their working together... John gifting her sweet things like flowers, candy. Gets her a little pigeon plushie because it reminded him of her. (That plush will now be cuddled to death when she sleeps alone bc of him jfjsjfjsj) Dove's grandparents would probably trust John so much they'd give him a key to their house to let himself in to see Dove whenever tbh. Sometimes he lets her know when he's coming, othertimes not so. Showing up while she's not expecting him and jumpscaring her a lot hahaha. I'm sure he finds it funny (he does). That's fine you keep jumpscaring her like that John, well fuck you get your hat STOLEN loser! Yoink! Ope girl now you're getting grabbed and hoisted into his arms and- ooohh they're cute together actually hehehe

Their relationship is very equal despite the 10 year age gap ("MYS THATS BAD" - they are two consenting adults. It's fine. 35 isn't old. Leave me alone), Dove, unfortunately, would probably be too dedicated to him even as he kind of becomes more uh. Crazy? Ig I can use that to describe it. Not seeing anything wrong with him harassing Noah Risse for answers, only kind of at least being mad at John's attitude toward Porter's and Bryan's deaths and John being fired for it, but being just as eager to get the information they want. Would definitely help him kill someone if she had to. Hah. (Idk why I enjoy the idea of him teaching her how to shoot his gun. Yknow. Just in case. No reason! :] )

Um. I don't know what else to add. If you read this and have questions about her feel free to reply/shoot me an ask.

[berryicet]

Please don't feel obligated to answer this ask at all if it's uncomfortable!!

Can you explain what an mspec lesbian is?? Because I've seen it associated with bi/pan lesbians and I don't support that at all. Genderfluid and he/him users can be lesbians as long as their gender isn't strictly male, cause it fluctuates between nb and a woman too I'm p sure!!

But like?? Men and demi-boys (still including being a male) are men?? And lesbian is non men ?? So I'm confused on what it is??

Sorry if this is an odd ask !!! But I saw the lesboy silver spoon thing and I think it's cool but I don't wanna support something bad :(

Bi/pan and mspec lesbians never have and never will be something bad. It's just queer people using labels however they wish to use them.

The "non men loving non men" definition is literally just a Tumblr definition, and also a really flawed one. A non man? But what about bigender people who are simultaneously a man and woman but feel strict attraction to women? In this case, maybe the term "bi lesbian" would fit them!

Also the "genderfluid can be lesbians as long as they aren't strictly male" is completely missing the point of being genderfluid. Maybe the term you're looking for is genderfae, but genderfluid will always fluctuate to masc genders. That won't change my attraction to women in any way. I'm still a lesbian.

Maybe the definition "queer attraction to women" will help a little more, but I see that as the inherent problem. You shouldn't try to put strict definitions on things, because that will inevitably end up excluding someone (almost always certain trans people).

Also warning you that the "bi/mspec lesbians aren't valid" talk is blatant TERF rhetoric. It's trying to push this idea of a "gold star lesbian". It sees men or men aligned genders in this case as "tainting the purity" of a "true lesbian". It claims that men are trying to steal women and lesbians spaces, when in reality that's far from the truth. The American government has passed around 60 anti-trans laws in the past few months and multiple gay bars are raided and shot up by conservatives. It's not other queer people hurting the community. It's just a made-up issue on tiktok spread around by teens who don't bother to look deeper into it.

Whatever sort of queer discourse arrises, jsyk other queer people are not the enemy and never will be. So if someone wants to use the mspec or bi lesbian label? Then yeah. Whatever. It's a personal thing. You shouldn't get mad at someone over a personal thing just because you don't understand it. Gender and sexualities are complex.

Get rid of the little bug in your brain that tells you everything should have strict definitions and rules, because that basically goes against everything the queer community has been about and has been fighting against.

[nerves-nebula]

so i saw ur post asking bigender / boygirl ppl to explain what its like btw if this is to late or annying u can totally ignore it or delete it srry if this is annoying anyway

for me personally i will feel like im both a boy and a girl separately but like sometimes one will be more prominent . like yes i am one of the boys a he / him a femine girly who also happens to be a boy who is a girl . its hard to explain but gender dysphoria and euphoria r very silly like i will be euphoric abt looking masculine and wow ppl think im a man !! my voice is so deep !! they r using he / him for me !! yippee !! but then simultaneously ppl think im a man :(( my voice is to deep :(( i look bad and basically the same thing again but yay ppl think imma woman !! my voice and body language is so feminine !! ppl use she / her for me !! yippee !! and then its like ppl think im a woman :(( everybody looks at you and thinks " girl :((

so basically to combat this i dress and act in a very confusing way and ppl normally stumble pther prns or ask me what gender i am which makes me happy :D also introducing myself w different prns / gender expression and act differently so some ppl see me as a cis ( very gay ) boy , some see me as a girl , some think im a transboy , some think im a transgirl , some see me as nonbinary, some gave up trying to figure out . so interacting w different groups of ppl i know throughout the day will normally end in ppl suing a varied sets of prns for me = ultimate gender euphoria like lets switch it up a bit

the only problem is when two ppl i know meet and they both have a different perception of me bcs around them i acted very masc / fem presenting so one will be talking abt smth and refer to me w a set of prns and the other person will be like " no [ ] use/s [] / [] prns and then they will actually start fighting abt my assigned gender at birth it's actually very funny like they will then be confused and i will normally have to randomly joke or make smth up for them to forget the situation . only downside i have had to move schools and classes multiple times bcs i got outed that way .

anyway i personally think for f ! leo ( in ur au ) he would be like " noooo i cant be trans or smth like i still feel like a man ... partly " and then have a complete gender crisis bcs he is a man but hes also a woman and holy shit what would a girl mutant ninja turtle look like ??!! like i also feel like he would use the excuse that other ppl have it worse and that shes not " fully " trans or smth ( which isnt true gender is a spectrum no trans person is " more " trans then another trans person ) i personally headcanon leo as transmasc ftm and ive never heard of boygirl rise leo but it sounds rlly interesting and a cool au !! also i rlly like ur art srry again if this was annoying or i started rambling

not annoying at all, very helpful in fact! you seem to be living your best life and I'm happy it's (mostly) working out for you hah, this DOES give me some good ideas too. especially with the kinda shit where Leo's like "well i'm a man SOMETIMES so I'm probably not trans" hah.

ALSO TO BE HONEST I usually headcanon leo as a trans man too but,, for some reason Future Leo being a girlboy is sooo appealing to me. I think its cuz my nonbinary characters are usually agender or having a culturally important gender or Third Gender (like me) so I've recently started playing more with characters who feel both Guy and Girl or switch between them and I'm really on a Future Leo roll right now so i might as well sweep him up into it too.

[silver-chasm]

A week ago, I made these icons of all my fursonas with all these pride flags (cause they're all trans lol). Two have a few extra flags/symbols on them, representing me

Two of the symbols you see here aren't lgbt ones. I'm not saying that what they represent should be part of the lgbt community, just that they're just as much a part of me as my queer identity

An explanation of who my fursonas are and what the flags are under the cut. I tried to be brief but some of these are a bit lengthy

1. Toxic Chasm

They're my main fursona (and the namesake of this blog). E is something called a Monsuno Sapien, a human mutated by alien essence (the species comes from the Monsuno series). She is me but more grounded and more at peace than what I was when I created him. Despite the grotesque and intimidating appearance, xe is compassionate and gentle. Chasm means a lot to me

The flags/symbols:

The bandana - genderqueer:

Genderqueer is a term that encompasses anyone who not only fall outside of the binary but also gender nonconforming people (those who "queer" their gender)

Chasm is genderqueer, partly because they contain the colours of the flag. Ze also challenges the idea of anthropomorphism with hir existence, much like how I seem to challenge the gender binary with my own existence

The garland - bigender

Bigender people have two genders. These two genders can be binary or nonbinary. A bigender individual may experience both of their genders simultaneously or shift between the two

In my case, I'm a man and a demiwoman at the same time ^-^

The hearts - bisexual and asexual

Bisexual is when you're sexually attracted to more than one gender. Asexual is when you don't experience sexual attraction. Asexuals may also still experience romantic attraction

Biromantic asexuals, like me, are physically unable to experience sexual attraction but are able to experience romantic attraction to more than one gender

The infinity symbol - neurodivergence

One of the non LGBT symbols. Neurodivergent people are those with neurodevelopmental conditions (such as autism, ADHD, dyslexia, etc) and mental health conditions (such as BPD, bipolarity, OCD, etc) and similar conditions, like schizophrenia. The infinity symbol is prominently used by autistic people, representing both the diversity of autism and neurodivergence

I'm 90% sure that I'm autistic. The other 10% is my anxiety keeping me in check

2. Korong

She is the fursona who I've had the longest (and was my primary fursona before creating Chasm). They're a giant monstrous dropbear with squid tentacles coming from her back and a second mouth on their belly. She is an absolute glutton. They are also the kind of being who would gloat about her power before trying to devour you

The flags:

The bandana - demigirl

Demigirls feel a partial but not complete connection to being a girl or woman. It is a nonbinary identity

Korong represented a past version of myself. Naturally, as I realised more about myself, she would change with me. They were never really "womanly", more monstrous than anything else

The flowers - a former vore pride flag

No, you didn't misread. This is the other non-lgbt symbol. Vorarephilia (shortened to vore) is a fetish where pleasure is derived from the idea of one being eating another (eg. snake eating a mouse, a giant holding someone in their mouth, etc). It's quite broad and typically fantastical in nature. The colours you see there belonged to a flag designed by a user here on tumblr, a genuine attempt at creating a pride symbol for vorarephiles. It wasn't a flag used outside of here. The creator has since deleted the post describing the flag, almost effectively wiping it from the internet

Korong is an embodiment of my vorarephilia. Her monstrous appearance also reflects a deep-seated shame toward this part of me I've had for years (and all for what? Strange thoughts?)

When I saw that flag and what it meant, I guess it gave me permission to feel something else towards this part of me. On top of the, the creator was reblogging vore positivity posts and posts where people were using their flag and being proud

For the longest time I thought there was something wrong with me. They showed that it's okay to be like this

Originally, I was going to draw the flag itself. I pivoted when I found that the original post (and the positivity posts) had been deleted. I drew it as hyacinths (flowers that represent grief and sincerity) because, as silly as it seems, I was dismayed that the flag and the little, safe, accepting corner of the internet had vanished. After all, what is left is a blue and purple symbol of mockery, with people disgusted that someone would think like that

I'm tired of feeling shame. As I said before, they're just strange thoughts that I cannot control. Nothing more

3. Hognose

They're a friendly Goodra, a slug dragon Pokemon. Much like the snake they're named after, Hognose has an upturned snout and a forked tongue. They're quite the skilled baker, with their favourite recipe being apple pie. They like cooking for their friends

The flag:

The bandana - agender

Agender people lack a gender, have a neutral or indefinable gender or don't identify with the concept of gender

Hognose doesn't have a gender. I forgot to give them one when creating them. Their gender expression does lean somewhat to femininity

4. Lantern

They're a baki, a goomba-like enemy from the Drawn to Life series. Technically, they've existed longer than Korong but I never considered them as a fursona. They were the mascot of my old blog thelanternwielder. They're a quiet being, tending to watch from a distance. Their eyes can cast light when its dark. They don't mind being carried by their handle (just don't swing them around too much)

The flag:

The bandana - nonbinary

Nonbinary people are those whose gender identity falls outside the man/woman binary. It's an umbrella identity, as there are many ways of not fitting in the binary

Lantern is another fursona I forgot to give a concrete gender to. And when I remembered, it didn't really make sense to gender them. They've always been a little bit unknown and mysterious, so their gender is vague and undefined to me

5. Aster

They're a fantail centipede/bee hybrid from space. Their hive lives in a moon above a resource abundant planet they collect and harvest from. Aster was one of the workers who became curious about what was beyond their planet and moon hive. So, they left and became a vagabond explorer among the stars

The flags:

On the left - agender

As it was stated, agender can mean 'genderless' and it can refer to those who don't identify with the concept of gender. Aster falls into the latter category as gender is a bizarre and foreign concept to them

On the right - intersex

Intersex people are those who were born with variation in sex characteristics that are 'atypical' from male and female sex characteristics. This can manifest in a number of ways, as sex is made up of several components. Intersex people can have any gender identity

In Aster's case, they are completely sexless. Their anatomy does not conform to the 'typical' sexes of humans (male and female). They are typical for their species, as many workers tend to be sexless

6. Hugs

He is a spotted hyena pyromancer who dances with fire. He's all about having fun and showing off his skill. He's easygoing and relaxed. His power comes from cinnabar he's imbued with

The flag:

The bandana - transgender

Being transgender is not identifying with the gender assigned to you at birth. Contrary to what some may assume, this does include nonbinary people (what do you think the white stripe in the flag represents?)

Hugs is trans guy. He's the only one here who has a binary gender

7. Alezan

He's the only child among my fursonas and the only one who was designed by someone else. They were designed by chibitacolord (here on tumblr!) He's an elfish fox child whose design is based on the raposa from Drawn to Life. Alezan mostly lives in the woods by themself, proclaiming himself to be 'the prince of the woods'. They're quite mischievous and playful. He loves flowers. They would be a florist if he was older

The flag:

The garland - genderflux

This is when the intensity of a particular gender changes. It can be considered a type of genderfluidity where the gender changes between something and nothing

Alezan is boyflux. The intensity of being a boy changes for them. Being so young, he doesn't quite have all the words to describe how he feels sometimes

8. Lasso

They're a strange being who has the body of an ox, the head of a humanoid crab and draconic wings. Their design is based on lamassu, ancient Mesopotamian guardian deities, and my Chinese and Western zodiac signs. Lasso was a being who was created at the edge of reality itself. As a result, they're incredibly inquisitive. They are also quite protective once they get attached to you

The flag:

The bandana - aitherogender

This is a xenogender. Some people feel that usual language around gender isn't able to describe the gender identity they experience, so they use metaphors to describe it. Aitherogender is an ethereal and otherworldly gender that is almost impossible to describe with written or spoken medium. It was originally intended for neurodivergent people but anyone can use the term

Given where Lasso came from, it would be likely that their gender wouldn't conform to human expectation or understanding of gender, let alone be able to be described in human language (or any language). I just thought it would be neat for them to have an otherworldly gender when they themself are otherworldly

[genderthaumiel]

I’m always non-binary, but sometimes a man and sometimes a woman. Do you have any idea what this could be?? Also, I identify with xenogenders.

if youre nonbinary (at any point) youre allowed to describe yourself as just nonbinary if you want (even if youre also a man and/or a woman). you can also say that youre nonbinary, man, woman, (and xenogender) without any other labels, if that feels right to you.

its possible to use any combination of these genders (like if you want to say youre nonbinary and bigender man-woman, thats a thing)

you could also say that youre trigender, (three genders, in your case nonbinary, man, and woman) quadgender, (four genders, enb, man, woman, xeno) or polygender/multigender (multiple genders). 

and without further ado, heres some terms i was able to find:

Polywave: where you feel multiple gender identities that each change in strength and intensity at different times [coining post]

Proplydian/Proplydgender: where you have a distinct “core” gender/gender identity, and then a “disk” of many other [xeno]genders that surround it, like a young/protostar and its protoplanetary disk. [coining post]

Distatic: referring to a bigender experience where one gender is static while the other is fluid. [coining post] (could be changed to fit three/four/multiple genders, i think)

Endogender: Having a fluid and/or fluctuating gender, but always being at least partially aligned to a given gender or gender(s). [definition post]

Polinumgender: A fluid polygender identity where one experiences multiple genders, but the amount of genders one experiences is constantly in motion. [coining post]

Ambonec: being both Male and Female, but neither simultaneously. [definition post]

Femache: a simultaneous male-female gender experience. [coining post]

Mesobinary: a word for those who relate to having an experience of both binary genders, or to having an experience of being in-between binary genders [more info]

Binaryfluid/Mesofluid (poly/multibinaryfluid): A gender that is fluid between both Male and Female and/or does not having stark boundary between the two; flowing between both binary genders freely. [coining post] [alt coining/flag]

theres also oxigenders (@/oxigenders) which are “mostly x, partially y, and a bit z” which might work (like in your case it could be mostly nonbinary, partially xeno, a bit man-woman. or whichever way you personally think of your gender)

i hope this helps! have a good day/night (o^▽^o)

[jewishsuperfam]

so heres a thing i think i might be genderfluid??? or bigender????? like, at all times i identify strongly with womanhood and lesbianism, but then sometimes i simultaneously identify with womanhood and masculinity?? like. it's hard to explain, bc i constantly identify with womanhood but almost never with femininity, whereas i usually identify with masculinity but only sometimes with "manhood" (which is a word i feel uncomfy using bc it usually is used in literature/fanfic to refer to penises, but i lack a better word to use right now) and it's. confusing like. im definitely a lesbian, despite some impulses i have when im drunk and lonely. but when i think about my gender, it's less one thing that moves along a spectrum, and more like. several things layered on top of each other. and it's possible im just butch and androgynous and gender nonconforming, but i feel like it might be that i am a butch lesbian woman who is also simultaneously androgynous and male/masc sometimes???? but then im not sure that feels right either, bc i dont feel "male" ever rly. like the idea of that is actually repellant to me. so idk what i am????