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mageofseven · 2 years ago

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The Boys' Opinions on MC's Dog

Same premise as the one with the cat, but this time with my sweet furbaby Elsa~

This is Elsa, my babygirl 🥰

I adopted her a few years back during a time of heavy depression and she has boosted me up for the better.

She is a chihuahua mix (or so the people I adopted from guessed; their other guess was a terrier mix) and was found wandering the streets. They think she escaped her previous owner's backyard, but aren't sure because no one came looking for her. I adopted her when she was one and a half.

Before anyone asks though, I will explain about her eyes. Those pinky red spots are her tear ducts, as I was told. We call them her cherry eyes and she's had them since I adopted her. I've talked about them with the vet and the lady said they don't hurt her or anything of the sort; they just sorta look strange when they pop out like this.

There is a surgery to fix it, but it's was too expensive and then she might have to have eye drops in her eyes for the rest of her life (and she hates eye drops a lot). Overall, I feel like it would cause her more harm than good to do it anyway.

I made sure explain this because I've literally had people (both irl and through me messaging them her picture) react like "Dear god, what is wrong with her eyes!!!" And it's like chill dude and stop insulting my dog.

She's still a beautiful and sweet little girl 🥰💕

So yeah! She's fine so there's no need to worry about the cherry eyes. She is however partially blind in one eye, but that is because...well, she dislikes cats and in the beginning of taking care of her brother Beanie, she wasn't his biggest fan. One day she had him cornered, he swatted her, and I had a $300 vet bill on my hands.

She is a sweet girl though! She just thinks she's bigger and tougher than she actually is. I call her my little Gryffindor sometimes lol.

Elsa's other names: Elsa Mae, Babygirl, Baby Love, Little Love, Baby Angel, Sweet Girl, and Little Bitch (jokingly since the non cuss word meaning of bitch is female dog and she's little, hence little bitch lol)

And lastly

The Queen 👑 hehe~

Now let's see how the Boys' handle her! She is quite needy so let's see how this goes hehe.

•▪︎▪︎◇°●♡●°◇▪︎▪︎•

Lucifer:

Was honest less reluctant than he was in Beanie's timeline.

Lucifer preferred big dogs (evident by Cerberus), but believed small dogs have their own charms.

Elsa was just this little helpless girl and he quickly grew a soft spot for her.

She was bit annoying though since she was always crying about something

But she was easy to soothe and the pride demon did enjoy holding her close and comforting her

Once she got used to him at least.

In truth, Elsa is scared of men, something we guess to be a part of a past trauma, either from when she was on the streets or because her first owner treated her poorly.

Because of this, it takes her awhile to feel safe with any man

But Lucifer is very patient and soft with her and he soon becomes one of her favorite people.

She can often be found on his lap as he does paperwork and will gently distract him from his work with a nudge of her nose to his arm.

Though it was annoying to him at first, those brief periods of having to stop his work for a moment to pet the needy furbaby actually did wonders for his stress.

Overall, he finds Elsa slightly tiring, but very sweet and enjoys the comfort she gives him.

Mammon:

This dude likes making fun of the dog

And gets smacked by MC on the arm or back of the head every time they hear him say anything mean.

In truth, he does like the chubby little thing.

Elsa's cries for attention always make this need dude feel needed and that's a feeling Mammon really wishes he felt more.

He pretends to find her annoying, but in truth grows to love her.

Some nights he'll try to steal the pup from her mama's (MC's) bed just for the dog to turn on him and bark still the whole house knows he's doing shit.

Will sometimes bribe her with food to try to get Elsa to choose him over his other brothers and it will usually work since she's so food driven.

Overall, Elsa makes this man feel important and gets Mammon addicted to the feeling.

Leviathan:

This dog knows how to make him feel guilty and he hates it.

He can't even eat a meal without her staring at him.

Feels like she thinks he's some monster who would starve her just 'cause he eats his own food.

Elsa's big eyes are good at this so it's not just Levi.

The envy demon also hates when she tries to come into his room.

Levi isn't worried she'll mess with his stuff or anything like that since she's such a good dog.

However, his room is stuffed with things that could crush the tiny girl if they fell

And this man has too much anxiety to chance it

So instead she cries outside his bedroom till eventually she fall asleep against his door.

Almost stepped on her while leaving his room once and this dude still hasn't forgiven himself.

Overall is very anxious about her size and just tries to distance himself from what he sees as an incredibly fragile little thing.

Satan:

This man is a cat lover; we all know this.

Still, he treats Elsa nice enough.

Will sometimes have to excuse himself when she cries too much.

It really gets on his nerves and the Avatar of Wrath knows his limits at this point.

Will pet her and call her a good girl, but that is the extent of his interactions with her.

Another brother worried about Elsa coming into their room.

Satan has so many books and many cursed books.

The poor girl could get severely hurt if a pile fell on her

And there's always the risk of a curse one touching her and then Satan will have to explain to MC why her precious pup is now a baby chick or something like that.

It's just safer to keep her out.

Overall, Satan is good to her, but overall disinterested.

Asmodeus:

Omg she's too perfect!!!

Gushes over the furbaby and spoils her with love.

Will refuse to let her on his lap if she's been outside recently though; Elsa has dirtied his clothes like this in the past and it upset the lust demon when his favorite pants got mud on them.

Is usually the brother ready to snuggle her when she cries.

Overall, Asmo loves Elsa very much and will always give her the affection she craves.

Beelzebub:

The man who can never put her down.

This dog just activates his Daddy instincts and he can't help but take care of her.

Is literally terrified of stepping on her; he is a big man and she is a tiny girl after all.

This is a part of why he holds her so much; if she's in his arms then she can never be hurt.

Plus hugging her makes him oh so happy 🥺💕

Is the brother that helps with most of Elsa's needs.

Beel will trim her nails for MC, despite Elsa's loud wails the entire time like she's being murdered (she hates her paws being touched). It hurts his heart, but he knows it's good for her.

Will sometimes help MC give her a bath, but not always.

Her cry is extra sad and pathetic, enough to break the hearts of anyone within hearing distance and it's too much for Beely 😢

Finds it funny afterwards when she refuses the towel and dries herself on the carpet (she rolls around and does a funny dancer essentially) while staring at MC with accusatory eyes.

Unfortunately, Beel is always one to sneak her food as well 😅

Elsa is a bit overweight and the vet wants her to lose some pounds but this girl is always hungry.

For obvious reasons, this man empathizes with her and can't help but sneak her some dog-safe food at times.

Overall, Beel fell in love. MC may be this dog's mama but he wants to be the daddy so bad.

Please MC 🥺👉👈

Belphegor:

Gets annoyed with her easily and can say some pretty mean things to her.

Belphie doesn't mean it though! Boy is just grouchy when woken up and Elsa tends to do that a lot.

She can't jump on beds by herself so cries and cries till she is finally placed on it.

Once the pup snuggles up with him to join him for his nap, the sloth demon immediately feels like an ass.

Belphie is also the one Elsa runs to when there's a thunderstorm.

She'll hide under the blankets with Belphie and he'll do his best to stay awake long enough to give the shaking dog some comfort.

Overall, likes her but gets annoyed by her a lot.

Diavolo:

This man gets so excited when MC brings Elsa to the castle!

Barb has zero chance of getting the prince to do work when the sweet pup visits with her mama lol

Honestly, this man is probably one of the few Elsa bonds with the quickest.

Dia is just so happy and showers her in love and treats (he always has an excuse for MC for why it's perfectly fine for Elsa to have so many treats 'just this once').

Elsa will literally run to this man the very second she sees him.

This little girl loves her 'Uncle Dia' so much (and boy, does Diavolo love being called that 🥰)

Barb takes the interruption to the prince's work schedule in stride

And even will uses it a motivator to get the man through his paperwork without staring out the window for like ten minutes at a time.

Will often make deals like 'like finish x amount of papers today and I will ask MC to bring Elsa tomorrow afternoon and bam, the work is done in lightning speed.

Elsa is more of a help than a hindrance to the prince's work so it all works out well 🥰🤭

Overall, Dia loves Elsa to bits and wishes she could visit more.

Barbatos:

Honestly, this man is no where near as close to Elsa as he was was with Beanie.

He finds Elsa cute and a good motivator for Diavolo, but a bit of a trouble maker.

Elsa doesn't quite understand what the Little Ds around the castle are, but assumes they are strange animals.

She'll snarl and try chasing the Little Ds, only for some to push her back or scare her off, resulting in her running to Barbatos and hiding behind his leg as she shakes.

This prompts Barb to frown and make a small sigh before kneeling down and comforting the scared pup.

Elsa causes problems for herself and expects help from the butler; this is no different from some people he knows and so he is used to it.

I'll admit, he never completely got over the time she tracked her muddy footprints all over the castle after being in the garden on a damp day, but blames MC more than he blames the ignorant pup.

Overall, Barb likes Elsa, but is less than thrilled about some aspects of her.

Solomon:

Honestly finds the dog precious.

It takes a while for Elsa to get familiar with him and not let her fear of men include him though.

Solomon was patient though and had no issues with waiting.

Didn't go out his way to bribe or force affection onto Elsa; just let time do its thing.

Even once the two started bonding, Elsa would bark every time he comes into House of Lamentation.

Solomon just laughs it off and say HoL has a pretty good security system now.

Despite the rather loud greeting, the dog always has to sit on his lap for a bit and will whine to rush him to sit down.

Overall, Solomon likes Elsa and thinks she's funny.

Simeon:

#1 pet sitter right here.

This angel sees Elsa as one of the most precious beings he's ever seen and is always up for pet sitting when need be.

Despite her fear of men, Elsa was never the least bit scared of Simeon.

Why that is, MC has no clue, but it definitely made some of the other men jealous in the beginning.

Just Simeon's name alone will make the dog run to the door and whine, making her think he's here to visit her.

His name becomes a trigger word the residents of HoL have to spell in order not to hype her up for disappointment

Just for Elsa to somehow associate the spoken letters of his name to his name and react the same.

How the hell is this dog so good at spelling???

(She legit is. Spell 'treat' around her and she will lose her shit; idk man she is too smart for her own good lol)

They literally just have to refer to him as 'the angel' when he's not around, a fact that Simeon finds funny.

Overall, Simeon loves the sweet pup dearly and Elsa loves him to a degree that shocks others lol

Luke:

!!!!!!!!!!!

The best of friends, through and through.

Luke practically fell in love with the dog instantly and Elsa loves older kids so the feeling was mutual.

(She doesn't like toddlers because of the time my nephew hit her when he was two, but loves older kids who know how to be gentle).

Often begs MC to let him to sleepover HoL for a night so he can spend more time with Elsa and even snuggle her while he falls asleep.

Will also bake her peanut butter treats, a favorite of hers 💕

These two are freaking cute together and no one is immune to it.

Overall: Besties. What more can I say?

#obey me #obey me otome #obey me lucifer #obey me mammon #obey me leviathan #obey me satan #obey me asmodeus #obey me beelzebub #obey me belphegor #obey me diavolo #obey me barbatos #obey me solomon #obey me simeon #obey me luke #obey me brothers #obey me undateables

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lightrises · 4 years ago

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"Only in allowing her to pass..." — Hornet, The Radiance, and the means by which Hallownest turned its victims against each other

A quick note: I read Hollow Knight as an anti-colonialist text. As such I'll be touching on topics related to colonialism as it's depicted in the world of the game, and said analysis will reflect both a sympathetic take on The Radiance and a critique of The Pale King that won't pull its punches. If this sounds up your alley, hello and thank you for the read! Let us be sad about these bugs together.

———

So!! A while back I realized something about pre-canon that felt rather... "curious" is one way to put it, I think. To wit: for all the effort and scheming and determination The Pale King poured into trying to get rid of The Radiance, neither of his plans involved directly killing her.

Was that his long game? Well, sure, that seems clear enough. His tack changed from luring the moths away from their god and creator to a more literal form of incarceration once the infection became a factor, but at its core the end goal never really changed—The Pale King very sincerely wished to destroy Radiance via obsolescence. The Seer lends us foreshadowing to confirm as much:

[Image descriptions: Two screenshots from Hollow Knight, showing the Seer and Ghost in the Seer's alcove at the Resting Grounds. Across both screenshots, the Seer tells Ghost the following: "None of us can live forever, and so we ask those who survive to remember us. Hold something in your mind and it lives on with you, but forget it and you seal it away forever. That is the only death that matters." End description.]

(Which, by the way and given the context, talk about an extremely unsubtle allusion to cultural genocide huh!!! Whew.)

In any case, we're left with a whole bunch of machinations which build up to... well, two very roundabout attempts at committing deicide. That's kind of weird, all things considered! Why not just do the deed in one fell swoop and get it over with?

This could be for any number of reasons. Maybe the king was devoid of the means to instantly kill another higher being. Maybe his personal sense of scruples stopped him short of signing off on MURDER murder (although, y'know, the aforementioned genocide + eternal imprisonment = still cool and copasectic apparently!). Maybe the long drawn-out cruelty was the point. Maybe the idea of playing fuckign 4D chess with the circumstances was too delicious for him to pass up—that man did love to tinker and stick his claws where they sure as hell didn't belong—or maybe it was a little bit of All The Things. Who knows!!

But interrogating The Pale King's methodology on this count isn't what I'm here for, at least not really. The main reason I raise this question at all is that in her own way, Hornet did too.

"I'd urge you to take that harder path... "

See, going by The Pale King's actions and what The White Lady explicitly says, they both foresaw two outcomes wrt the infection: it can be allowed to spread, or it can be contained. At Teacher's Archives, Quirrel acknowledges the fact that Ghost is expected to do... something about this, but he doesn't elaborate on what HE thinks that's supposed to be apart from the obvious "Gotta bust into Black Egg Temple first". Hornet is the one person who presents to us—to Ghost—what's framed as a third option: confront and destroy the infection at its source.

And she doesn't bring it up like it's just another tactic for Ghost to consider, prim and indifferent to what they would do. She nudges them towards it, actively, up to the point where she throws herself into the fray against Hollow at a juncture that's uniquely dangerous to her and her alone just to make that option feasible.

Even when she's couching it in disclaimers that this is still Ghost's decision to make (and let's be fair, she's extremely not wrong about that lol), no one can pretend Hornet is unbiased. It's obvious in that buttoned-down Hornet kind of way that she is way the hell done with the increasingly tenuous stalemate that's kept Hallownest's desiccated corpse from collapsing in on itself. Personally it's hard for me not to read some Toriel Undertale-esque "My father was too entrenched in his own foolishness to pursue any course of action that would have DEFINITIVELY ended this" shade into her stance here, regardless of whether that's strictly true in canon.

And that bit—Hornet's hopes for an end to Hallownest's stasis, moreover her grim calculation of what needs to be done to get there—that's the bit I find super interesting but likewise tragic and depressing as shit, on multiple levels. In no small part because a) canon itself gestures towards Hornet feeling conflicted about the very plan she's pushing, and moreover b) she has at least two (2) damn good reasons to feel that way.

So, what do I mean by that? Let's look here first:

[Image description: A screenshot from Hollow Knight, of Hornet and Ghost inside the Temple of the Black Egg, standing in front of the unsealed egg itself. Hornet has been struck by the Dream Nail and her dialogue is displayed as follows: "... Could it achieve that impossible thing? Should it?" End description.]

As the curtain is about to drop on things one way or another, Hornet thinks,

... Could it achieve that impossible thing? Should it?

Now, looking at that last bit it's easy to go "Oh no, Hornet's worried that Ghost won't survive killing The Radiance!" And I do think that's part of it: Hornet is, categorically, not her father. By endgame it's clear she's not content to view her Void-borne siblings as tools to be used then disposed of. She's also well aware that as a healthy autonomous Vessel amongst the countless dead, Ghost is the only person left alive who has a fighting chance against The Radiance. Knowing someone is the only qualified candidate for the job doesn't make encouraging them to embrace a probable death sentence any less of a bitter pill to swallow, though. And odds are on that this sentiment extends to Hollow too, who IS going to die no matter what happens here. To put it bluntly, it's more than reasonable to conclude that Hornet hates the absolute fuck out of this.

But I don't think that's all there is to it either. Remember what I said earlier about The Pale King's bids for genocide? Well, it's not like the man deigned to limit his efforts to just the moth tribe.

"We do not choose our mothers... "

On top of everything else—an infected Hallownest being all she's ever known, the fact that she only exists because of the infection, the list goes on—Hornet has spent her life wedged into a position that's been uncomfortable and terminally unglamorous at best: she is both a daughter of her father's kingdom and of Deepnest.

Deepnest, which like the moths and many others was here long before the wyrm and his lady wife swanned onto the scene and the God Become Bug laid claim to everything the Light touched plus a considerable amount of change. THAT Deepnest, which has fought claw and thread to retain its sovereignty against same-said settler king, and for which Herrah not only surrendered her life but also agreed to bed her worst enemy, all in hopes of securing a viable future for her people (put a pin in that last part by the way, I'll come back to it soon).

Two Worlds, One Family (Ft. An Indigenous Woman Trying Her Damndest To Work With What She's Got Versus An Imperialist Who Only Signed Up For This Because He Needed The Political Favor THAT Badly, So It's The Height Of Dysfunctional Actually). Fun times!!!!

The baggage this entails for Hornet is gnarly enough without implications made by The White Lady and the pre-canon timeline of events and even Team Cherry's dev notes that the king may well have looked at baby Hornet, gone "YOINK", then ensured she spent the lion's share of her childhood reared within the pearly auspices of his Pale Court*. That would be rather advantageous for Him Specifically after all, the potential to mold a born foe into a future ally and even have her trained in combat under the same tutelage as her doomed sibling. And far be it from him to stop a grown Hornet—his own flesh and blood too!—from making Deepnest her forever home if she so pleased. He totally wouldn't be reneging on his "fair bargain made" by doing this one simple thing until Hornet came of age, not t e c h nic c a l l y.

If that is indeed the case, there's a non-zero chance Hornet's formative years were a hot mess of cultural alienation and being a good deal more privy than most to just how much of a bastard her father could be. There's an equally non-zero chance that at some point she stood or sat within earshot as The Pale King finally, finally dropped all pretense and euphemism to name the Light for precisely what (for who) it was.

See, in conjunction with the question that started this whole dang train of thought I've been asking this one too: Does Hornet know? When she speaks of confronting "the heart of [the] infection" does she know she's talking about not just a literal person but someone very specific? The Radiance, who god though she may be shares skin in the game alongside Hornet as a native woman screwed over by the same settler king, likewise deprived of her kin and saddled with a life gone horrendously pear-shaped?

I'll assume for the sake of exploring the possibility and because I think it's a likely one anyway that yes, Hornet does know. She knows, and despite everything can't help empathizing. She might even look at Radiance and see bits and pieces both reflected and slightly inversed in her own mother: Radiance was forced to the sidelines while her people—her children, the brood she was meant to lead and care for—died out under The Pale King's rule, and it's no stretch to assume she's at least as upset about that as she has been about everything else; Herrah too took drastic measures for her people's sake, trying to head off annihilation by relegating herself to the sidelines in an act that was as much calculated risk as an attempt to find wiggle room and leverage in the face of a nasty proposition.

A calculated risk that, if things continue as they are, might well amount to nothing as the rest of Deepnest gets eaten alive by the infection. It survived The Pale King's advances for so so long, only to fall here. Herrah's sacrifice would be for naught; the other tribes—themselves the king's victims—would keep succumbing to the infection too.

And this is where things fall apart.

"... or the circumstance into which we are born."

Let's be clear: I think Hornet is wise enough to know what's what here, that all the carnage and suffering falls on her father's head for starting this slow-motion trainwreck in the first place. Hallownest wasn't always Hallownest. This domain was Radiance's home first, along with many others. It was the worm-turned-king who rolled up on the scene unsolicited and decided this was a ""'problem""" that had to be """solved""".

But the fact of the matter is that he's gone and The Radiance is here, raging, seemingly inconsolable. Above and beyond being Deepnest's rightful heir, Hornet isn't in a position to countenance more splash damage even if the grief and fury fueling it makes perfect sense. She can understand without ever bringing herself to love Radiance, and she can bend her knee to practicality even if she hates the everloving shit out of it because the fact that it "has" to end this way isn't fair.

This lends itself to one last awful conclusion: that Hornet has probably considered and (rightly or wrongly) discarded the possibility that Radiance can be saved, at least not without dragging more collateral along for the ride. If even her mother and every other enemy to the king seemed to dismiss talking Radiance down as an option way back when... well. Why should Hornet hope for any better after things have escalated so far?

Again, it's practical. A practical net good is what Hornet strives for. And again, it fucking sucks.

For extra tragedy points, this makes Hornet's extended crypticness around Ghost followed by her last minute casting about for a reason to tell them "Wait, don't; not just yet" that she never voices even more of a gut punch. She can't bring herself to burden Ghost with the context that haunts her so, least of all when it might weaken their resolve to go through with what (she thinks) needs doing.

It's the "same song, different verse" which led to the mantis tribe and Deepnest being pitted against each other: Hallownest rigged the game so that two women who could have been powerful allies—who have a mutual vested interest in driving out settler rule—wound up poised as enemies instead. And how awful is that? The king for all his being extremely fucking dead still gets the last laugh, because outside of a miracle the game never manifests Hornet can salvage what her mother started and look forward to a future where Deepnest pulls itself back from the brink if and only if The Radiance dies.

Resolution comes at the price of a completed genocide. Add two more dead siblings to the unconscionable pile thereof, while we're at it. That's what it boils down to whether or not Hornet can bear to articulate it as such, and there's no grace or even a properly bittersweet ending to wring from this clusterfuck. And that is rough.

———

* This has been better explained elsewhere, but a quick rundown: The White Lady tells Ghost that Hornet and Herrah "were permitted little time together." On its surface this can be taken to mean that Hornet was still very young when Herrah was shipped off to Eternal Dreamland—except this doesn't jive with the fact that we meet Hornet as an adult. If the stasis kicked in once the Dreamers went to their rest, which in turn halted the aging process for every living bug in Hallownest, AND before all this Hornet experienced little by the way of quality time with her birth mother... I think you can see where I'm going with this.

To top it off we've got Team Cherry weighing in ominously from their dev notes on Herrah: "As part of the agreement for her alliance and her role as a dreamer, King gave her a child (Hornet). Was she allowed to keep this child or was she taken away?" This isn't confirmation by itself of course, but given additional canon details (see above): Can I get a "yikes" in the chat fellas.

#hollow knight #hornet (hollow knight)#hornet hollow knight #hk hornet #the radiance #hk radiance #herrah #hk herrah #hollow knight meta #sup folks it's been a minute since i dropped a whole dang essay but Here We Go!!!!!!

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gutouhua · 2 years ago

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hi I’m back after rereading all the updates LOL and I have questions/thoughts!!!!

I forgot OC doesn’t know how to read 😢 would Sukuna teach her? Momoka? That would be such a cute bonding moment

When did Sukuna fall in love with OC?? and vice versa? I’m so curious as it seemed rather quick. Was it because of a specific moment?

the audacity of Hikaru to challenge Sukuna to a “friendly match” when he’s literally a god??? I’m so confused ma’am like she’s got some nerve wow 😵‍💫

Rereading the latest update makes me think the next one will be slightly angsty since OC is thinking Sukuna is going ti have all these questions and potentially abandon her after Hikaru’s audacity? Maybe I’m wrong but I am HERE for the angst ugh I’m going through a phase LOL

okay this is early considering they just got married but OC is a human so what’s gonna happen when she gets older and Sukuna just stays the same.. I probably already know the answer but I’m already not ready?????

also generally just curious if you have an outline for this series and how long it’ll be? or is it more of a go with the flow type of thing? idk just wondering hah

hiii anon! thank you for reading & for your comments <3 i'm gonna put answers underneath the cut cause it might get long (tw: emotional & physical abuse, power imbalance, dark/toxic romance -- it's sukuna lol)...

Yes, I am planning on writing a scene where reader learns to read or at least mentioning it happen. I love reading so it's important to me that reader learns how to (& it's something that she deserves!)

Okay so I'm going to say that Sukuna doesn't "love" reader...at least not in the traditional sense that we're thinking. He's like some centuries old being, so his idea of love is a bit warped and he himself doesn't understand the caring, affectionate feelings he feels towards reader.

For reader, you have to understand her bg of being emotionally and physically neglected, being abused, not really having any caretaker/provider for most of her life, just overall emotionally repressed as well which sorta makes her latch onto the first person who shows her any sort of care. This is also part of the reason why she wants to be vulnerable in front of Sukuna, relax in his presence, but is simultaneously afraid of screwing things up. So does she love him? Yes, in her own way. Is it romantic love you feel for your partner...not quite but we'll get there. They're two broken people trying to do their best.

Yeah Hikaru is insane. But that's entitlement and privilege for you :D Some people really do be out there wildlin' like ma'aam hello??? have you seen yourself???

Yeah next part will have some angst because I like watching my characters suffer hehe.

Ah, the time old issue of an immortal lover paired with a mortal one...only time will tell what'll happen...

I don't have an outline but I have some ideas about events I want to happen in the middle & I sorta have an idea of how I want it to end. And that's also the reason why I'm planning on rewriting the series when I finish & have time to tighten some things up editorially, fix any discrepancies (esp timeline issues), etc etc. I wasn't expecting to get so attached to my first series, but I suppose it's expected since it's quite self-indulgent, and I relate to reader in some ways.

Anyway, thank you so much for your comments again! I read every single comment people leave me & they always make my day!!

me at any given moment when i read a nice comment:

#hua!answers

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thinkingisadangerouspastime · 4 years ago

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So, this may sound weird, since I don't ship ZK, but I think the reason some dislike EIP is because they realize it was the first part of a busted enemies-to-lovers arc. EIP was part one, where Zuko and Katara see how others see them, and it weirds them out. Yet, Zuko insisted on sitting next to Katara and Katara pushes Aang away, suggesting there might be something there that they don't want to acknowledge. (1/3)

The first part of the finale was Part 2, where June reiterates the "Hey you're with your gf again!" Zuko and Katara deny it, but there likely should have been an undercurrent of 'Why do people think we're together? Do we act like it? Should we be? S/he is kind of cute.' During this time, Zuko defers to Katara and despite Toph likely being more helpful, asks Katara to be the one to take down Azula with him. (2/3)

Last part of the finale should have been the money shot, Zuko taking lightning for Katara, and in a parallel to CoD, Katara healing him. Dante Basco is right in that there probably should have been a kiss at that moment and the end scene of the gang at the Jasmine Dragon with Zuko and Katara shyly proclaiming their interest in each other. (3/4, sorry I have one more)

Again, ZK is not my ship, but EIP seemed to set up a ZK endgame that jumped the tracks at the end. By all the "rules" of a good narrative, Zuko and Katara should have ended up together, otherwise EIP should never have been countenanced or storyboarded. Full disclosure that I'm not a huge Kataang fan either, but Kataang was done a disservice by having EIP exist. It either should not have ever gotten written, or the ZK enemies-to-lovers arc should have been concluded. (end)

Disclaimer: I don’t care if someone ships Zvtara. Never have, never will. If the takeaway you (the general you, not anon specifically lol) get from this post is that Zvtara is “bad,” then I’m going to assume you didn’t actually read anything I wrote, because that is the farthest thing from my point here. Also, this post is strictly my personal response to these asks. I don’t expect everyone to read this and be like “YEAH” lmao. I am sure some people have different opinions, and that is a-okay!

In short, I think we will have to agree to disagree, anon.

Do some people consider EIP the beginning of a busted enemies-to-lovers arc? Of course they do, they’re “rabid zkers” who wear Zvtara shipping goggles 24/7 lmao. EIP couldn’t have been the beginning of an E-L arc because such an arc was never in the cards for them in the first place! Katara forgave Zuko in the previous episode. Trying to cram a romantic relationship into five episodes after months of hatred between Zuko and Katara would have been awful writing (and thus probably would have been a decision mercilessly criticized until the end of time, lmao). So it’s honestly better that Zvtara gets to spread its wings in fanon instead (much less pressure)! Also, realistically speaking, Katara and Zuko probably still had so many issues to work through in their friendship. Like yes, she forgave him and recognized he was trying to do better, but that doesn’t erase what Zuko has done to her and her friends. There is still plenty of forward progress they need to make before romance can even be considered between them. If that makes sense?

Also, let’s be real: EIP and bit with June afterwards were 100% ship bait. Just an attempt to add to the “drama” of who Katara would end up. A technique only effective while it was airing, for the record, because if you watch the show straight through, it becomes glaringly obvious that Zuko and Katara’s relationship - while gorgeous - was always meant to stay strictly platonic within the canon timeline.

Anyways. I’ll try to break down your ask one piece at a time!

“Zuko and Katara see how others see them, and it weirds them out”

Yes, they are definitely weirded out! The transcript says, “Zuko and Katara inch away from each other, slightly uncomfortable.” Which is just a longer way of describing that they were weirded out by the depiction of their relationship in EIP, lol. However, the play is not how others see them. The play is the Fire Nation’s imperialist propaganda, meant to demean the entire Gaang. I talk about in specifics how the entire Gaang is belittled here, but this is the key stuff I noted about Zuko and Katara:

it’s important to situate that and more importantly situate eip zuko and katara’s relationship within the context of the show. the fire nation is an imperialist country. the southern water tribe has suffered heavily beneath them. we know from “the headband” that fire nation individuals are fed pro-imperialistic propaganda from birth; that combined with zuko and azula’s degrading comment of “peasant” towards katara demonstrate very clearly how the fire nation views every other nation - put simply, they are superior and everyone else is inferior. that attitude is therefore reflected in the eip play:

- katara, an indigenous woman, is highly sexualized and portrayed as overly dramatic and tearful, because the fire nation objectifies women not of their own people and views them as less intelligent and less emotionally stable

- she is thus paired as having a “romance” with zuko in eip because naturally, via fire nation logic, zuko would be able to “score” an “easy” woman of one of the water tribes

- furthermore, the eip “romance” between zuko and katara emphasizes zuko’s position as a traitor to the fire nation; the implication is that as a traitor, he’d only be able to achieve a relationship with a “lesser” woman, e.g. a woman not of the fire nation

That is not how other people truly view Zuko and Katara’s relationship. That is how the Fire Nation depicts their relationship in order to degrade and dehumanize Zuko and Katara. To misinterpret that as “evidence” that Zuko and Katara should have been together romantically is… disturbing, in my opinion. (I really try to stay far away from zkers who use EIP as “proof” of supposed Zvtara interest in each other like honey that is imperialist propaganda please don’t 😭).

If you want to talk about how other people actually view Zuko and Katara’s relationship, look at the Gaang, who were around them most of all! They never tease the possibility of romance between their friends. Why? Because within canon, there wasn’t one. Simple!

“Zuko insisted on sitting next to Katara”

Nope! This is all the transcript says: “Zuko [Removing his hood.] Just sit next to me. What’s the big deal?” He doesn’t even mention Katara! Zuko is literally just like I’m already sitting. Why do I need to move? lmfao. It’s no thoughts head empty for our favorite firebender 😂

“Katara pushes Aang away”

I’m assuming this about the kiss, which I’m going to make a post about in the future because I am TIRED of the tomfoolery. Anyways, I’ll keep this brief - yes, she does push him away. She does not deny that she likes him. For Katara, the issue is the timing: “This isn’t the right time.” Both Katara and Aang know they like each other, plain and simple (which is why Aang doesn’t ask if he returns her feelings - he asks if they’d be together, because he knows their feelings are mutual). Katara pushes Aang away because, as she says, they’re in the middle of a war. She’s already seen Aang die once. He might die again. She doesn’t want that, of course, but it’s a reality Katara is forced to consider.

Anyways, her decision has nothing to do with Zuko. Lol.

“June reiterates the ‘Hey you’re with your gf again!’ Zuko and Katara deny it, but there likely should have been an undercurrent of ‘Why do people think we're together? Do we act like it? Should we be? S/he is kind of cute.’”

June’s assumption - especially because it is a repeat of a gag from earlier in the series, when it is incredibly concerning to assume a Fire Nation citizen would be with someone of the Water Tribes because of the war and its consequences - is comic relief. Not even good comic relief, lmao, because of the horrific implications I just mentioned that come with it, but it’s supposed to be comedy. There was no need of any “Zvtara” undercurrents there because a) Katara and Zuko had never expressed romantic interest in each other in the past, b) it wouldn’t track with the show’s narrative of Katara as Zuko’s surrogate sibling because of her position as Azula’s primary foil, and c) it just doesn’t make sense in general. Katara likes Aang. Zuko likes Mai. There was never a love triangle there, plain and simple. Fandom invented it.

And again, if you want to talk about how people actually see Zuko and Katara, don’t look at June, who has never had a proper conversation with either of them. As I said, the Gaang is a much better example, since they’re with the two 24/7. If they never tease Zuko and Katara about romance, why should we trust this random lady who doesn’t even know them?

“During this time, Zuko defers to Katara and despite Toph likely being more helpful, asks Katara to be the one to take down Azula with him.”

As I mentioned, Katara is Azula’s primary foil, so from a literary perspective she absolutely needed to be the one to take her down. Zuko needed to face Azula, but taking her down - again, from a literary pov - was always meant to be the end of Katara’s journey (she was the only person besides Aang who was ever a match for Azula, after all, as we see in CoD). Also, how would Toph be more helpful?? Not saying you’re wrong, btw, I just don’t understand what you mean. If I was Zuko, I also would have brought the waterbender that I’d already witnessed almost take down my sister already 😂. But even if Toph would have been more helpful, sometimes practicality must be sacrificed for a fulfilling narrative arc, lol!

“Last part of the finale should have been the money shot, Zuko taking lightning for Katara, and in a parallel to CoD, Katara healing him.”

Honestly, anon, this part of your ask baffles me 😂 I totally understand why rabid zkers might make this argument, but taking into account the rest of the show… It just doesn’t make sense? It’s been talked about a hundred times, but Zuko taking lightning out of romantic interest would ruin his redemption arc, regardless of if it was Katara or Aang or Sokka or anyone in the Gaang that he was taking it for, so that should be the end of discussion, full stop. I’ve talked about this issue here and here before, and someone else does a great job breaking it down in this post, too. But seriously. Zuko having romantic interest for anyone in the Gaang would ruin!! His!! Entire!! Arc!! I hate when people don’t understand that 😭 Zuko had to learn selflessness, to learn how to put others before himself, and to unlearn the imperialist rhetoric he’d been indoctrinated with from birth. Romantic interest during canon for Katara, Sokka, Aang, whomever, I don’t care, completely disregards all of his growth of breaking away from the Fire Nation. Plain and simple.

“Dante Basco is right in that there probably should have been a kiss at that moment and the end scene of the gang at the Jasmine Dragon with Zuko and Katara shyly proclaiming their interest in each other.”

I learned in a discord I’m in that Dante Basco apparently hadn’t seen the whole show until this year lmao. He didn’t know what energybending was nor did he know A:TLA ended with a Kataang kiss. Take that with a grain of salt, of course (you can watch the livestream this is revealed in here, and it was also mentioned in the recent StageIt A:TLA reunion), but I think it’s safe to conclude Dante Basco can be treated like any other Zvtara shipper. He likes the ship, which is totally cool, but he is not one of the writers, so his opinion meant naught in constructing the canon narrative.

ANYWAYS. My point is why would Zuko and Katara proclaim interest in each other if such interest would have to be crammed into five measly episodes?? Especially when four of those episodes were the finale?? That is awful writing, of course the A:TLA writers wouldn’t do that, lmao! They’d built up Kataang and Maiko already. Why scrap it and needlessly rush a romance from an excellent - and, important to note, a newly established - platonic bond? Nah.

“EIP seemed to set up a ZK endgame that jumped the tracks at the end. By all the ‘rules�� of a good narrative, Zuko and Katara should have ended up together”

Nope. Idk what rules people have been teaching you, anon, but they were lying!! You deserve better than people who would lie to you like that 😤. But yeah, narratively speaking, Katara and Zuko getting together would have made no sense. It would have undermined Zuko’s and Katara’s arcs, it would have completely disregarded Katara’s established feelings for Aang and Zuko’s for Mai, and again, it would have been totally rushed. Who wants that?? Normal people don’t, lmao. This might be hard to believe considering I occasionally rag about BNF zkers, but I actually have several friends who are Zvtara shippers! They agree that canon Zvtara would have made no sense, and that it’s better to play out a potential Zvtara dynamic in post-A:TLA fanon. I swear, it is only the rabid shippers who think Zvtara should have been canon, and trust me when I say no one should want to associate with them, lmao.

(And again, as I touched upon earlier, Zuko and Katara’s canon narrative relationship was surrogate siblings because of Katara’s position as Azula’s primary foil. The show wrapped their arc up perfectly! With a lovely bow and all. So no complaints from me!)

“otherwise EIP should never have been countenanced or storyboarded. Full disclosure that I’m not a huge Kataang fan either, but Kataang was done a disservice by having EIP exist”

What EIP did right:

- accurate (and horrifying) depiction of pro-imperialist propaganda

- recap of previous seasons

- a lesson on consent (Aang kisses Katara, it is depicted as wrong, and Aang reacts appropriately by admonishing himself and by giving Katara space afterwards. like, people call Aang an incel/entitled/whatever, BUT HE HAD THE PERFECT REACTION?? he literally backed off and never pressured her again. i would have killed for the guy who kept getting in my personal space during my junior year to have backed off when i told him to. spoiler alert: he didn’t)

- hit some good humor beats

What EIP did poorly:

- honestly it’s not very interesting just based on watching it (deconstructing it as propaganda gives it better depth), but that’s to be expected from filler

- stupid shipping drama

- not having an additional conversation/explicit apology between Aang and Katara

HOWEVER. This final point is actually very subjective. For one, A:TLA has a clear trend of not showing apologies on screen. Ex.: Katara doesn’t apologize to Sokka for what she said about their mother, Zuko doesn’t apologize for anything he did to the Gaang, Song, or really anyone (closest we get is “Hello, Zuko here” lmao), Ty Lee and Mai don’t apologize for putting the Kyoshi warriors in jail, etc. etc. So while an explicit apology would have been great, the lack of one admittedly tracks with the show’s pre-established standards. And two, while I of course would love a conversation between Aang and Katara (that’s literally MORE KATAANG. why would I refuse 😂), it isn’t… necessary, to be frank. Aang’s mistake is treated as such - kissing Katara was wrong and he should never have done that. Like I said, Aang acknowledges this error and gives Katara space afterwards. Thus, it is Katara who chooses to be with him when the war is over. She respects the time he gave her to come to a conclusion, and the choice she makes is that she loves him despite his poorly-timed kiss (I mean, she forgave Zuko for being complicit in Aang’s death. Katara is clearly a very forgiving person!). So like,, it gets to a point where if someone doesn’t recognize that, they’re probably the kind of weirdo who labels anything they don’t understand in a story as a plothole, lmao.

All of this is to say that EIP wasn’t a disservice to Kataang. It certainly could have been better, of course, and the kiss was obviously only put in to hype up drama (“will they, won’t they” blah blah blah), but overall it handled consent well for a kid’s show.

“It either should not have ever gotten written, or the ZK enemies-to-lovers arc should have been concluded.”

On the whole, EIP is absolutely an unnecessary episode, yeah. It was just a recap before the finale. The only important thing is its accurate depiction of pro-imperialist propaganda, but most people’s minds don’t immediately go to that, I’ll admit lmao 😂. And as I’ve already said, there was no Zvtara E-L arc - fandom completely made that up. Which is totally fine! That’s the point of transformative works. But they are still fanon. Plain and simple.

TL;DR - Zvtara was never in the cards for A:TLA. I wish rabid zkers would stop pretending it was and have fun in the sandbox like the rest of us 😭

And for the record, anon, you absolutely, 100% do not have to be convinced by any of this! It’s just my own, personal thoughts on the whole dealio. No worries either way!! 💛

#emphasis on my use of rabid zker. if you know you don't fall into that category then it's obviously not about you lol #(general you. not anon specifically)#amy answers #anon #amy analyzes

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