#I mean yay toxic yaoi

[maeral33n]

Ok so I’ve been binge reading The Book of Bill and I just got to the page where Bill says to Ford “You’re my property. Don’t forget it.”

(Spoiler Warning I guess)

Like…this whole page is so messed up. When he was possessing Fords body, he calls Stanley and tells him he’s going to take a dive in a frozen lake and might not come back and that he never loved him. I AM GAGGED. Bro

Where was I? My body was paralysed. I felt my bones being pulled slowly, slowly out of their sockets. It was excruciating. I tried to scream, but nothing came out…😀 Boy, blink if you need help.

And then Bill threatening Ford that he can make him forget everything about himself among all the other ways Bill is capable of torturing Ford mentally.

“That’s ridiculous!” I shouted. “I’m…I’m…” I panicked. I couldn’t recall my name. I began to shake.

He flipped his finger like he was turning on a light switch, and it came to me.

“I’m Stanf-“

Flipped again. I went blank. I felt my sockets start to strain. Any second my tendons would pop, my bones would splinter. I fell to the ground, on the verge of vomiting.

Bill you evil bastard. I love you but I can’t keep defending you lmao. Like we all know just how absolutely vile Bill can be. Let’s not forget that in the show he literally would have jumped off the water tower in Dippers body and frame it as a suicide if he had gotten his hands on the journal. And he would have done the same to Mabel.

There’s so much about this page I could go on and on about. But this post is ranty enough. Thank you for reading, I am not obsessed with this book. I repeat, I am NOT obsessed with this book.

[soileaterwtf]

Restarted tfp!! <3

Gonna yap as I watch

I'm on ep 6!

Skyquake, the mech that you are, your loyalty knows no bounds

Also tbf, he is right? Megatron isn't dead lol

Ratchet, bby, Raf is right, it's his project

U cannot do everything for them

This is Soo, like, PTA mom core of Ratchet

Lmfao, my phone just tried to autocorrect Ratchet to racism

Control freak frfr

ALL HAIL LORD MEGATRON!!!

'microns from the detonation point' Starscream.

Starscream. Bestie. Lord cuntiness. It's megs.

Fowler!!!!! Love him.

Fuck him uppppp Optimus

I'm sorry,,,, lasers??

Scanners!! He has an alt mode now!!!

I'll be a bald eagle?? Swear normal. They should let Fowler say fuck.

Fuck yeah, girlboss Fowler!!

HE LIVES!!

This is gay. Toxic yaoi much. Starscream, what're you gonna do, kiss him? Boy kisser.

Fuck him upp Bumblebee!!

Back then up, go Fowler go!!

Yay!! Fowler caught Bumblebee!

Is he dead? Fr?

Wow , vic blaming ? Lol, wtf. He was a loyal soldier, dude, doing his job. (I'm kidding, I know he gave Skyquake a chance.)

Yay!! ❤️❤️ Bumblebee

Ratchets--i mean the kids projects went in

How'd they do? Miko had a model of Cybertron so,, F, Jack got a literal ricocheting chainsaw dog, and Raf got,,,that .... Ratchet, this isn't a normal thing kids make lol

The ratchet--megatrom parallel of straying from their path is so fucking funny

I'm pretty sure that there's a difference from a literal dictator and a control freak medic 😭

Megs on life support is , very entertaining.

[mackeralsauce]

'kay gonna rant ab some frustrations (very opinionated) with the cuttletavio community and whatnot. don't like it? move on! more down below:

(TW for mentions of heavy topics and similar. I'm tired of people being uncreative and diluting the ship to 'toxic yaoi yay!!!'. Oh, and mentions of NSFW in passing.)

Oh my fucking god. Can we stop with the boring-ass 'Toxic Old Man Yaoi' bullshit already? It's so overplayed and uncreative.

There's gonna be a lot of people who disagree with my takes in this, and frankly, I don't care! I'm shrimply tired of seeing the same old cycle repeat in this fandom of 'cool big artist or writer ends up making something frankly disgusting with cuttletavio'. I block liberally and whatever so there's your forewarning and whatnot.

Another forewarning is that I am very much autistic and so these issues drive me to this point because I see much more potential in the ship! This is one of my special interests.

Part 1: Toxic Tropes, Abuse, and Everything Inbetween.

Every time I hear about something in this fandom, it's someone making content of Octavio and Craig that involves abuse, homewrecking, non-con, racism, fetishization, or anything else under the shit bucket! Yeah, yeah, people on the internet can have their opinions. It's not inherently bad to represent issues like that, but it's the fact that it is ALWAYS portrayed in a romanticized light! Because let me remind you, this community is for the *ship* between these two characters. Representation of such topics need to be done tastefully. Real people are harmed by shit like that, and spoiler alert! I should fucking know.

There's so much "Craig being racist haha!" jokes from certain groups. That's primarily the fault of the NA translation of Splatoon, but it's still quite irritating. There is much more to his character than just that. Really, is that the ONLY fucking joke you idiots have? Damn. Boring as hell! Not to mention we know from interviews that even nowadays he wished for peace and tries to help any Octarian he comes across... Oh, and I won't name names, but some people just straight up BUTCHER his character. Yuck.

Then there's the portrayal of Octavio. Typically, people outside of the cuttletavio community will end up portraying him as a fascist dictator (gross and wrong). We have the opposite problem here. People straight-up infantilize him, make him woobified, etc. which annoys me quite a bit. I think we forget that, y'know... HE IS A SHOGUN? A COMMANDER? Such a government is going to be militaristic. I'm not saying that he's evil, but making him out to be an innocent 'widdol guy' is just. Eugh. Not to mention this is usually done because of headcanons involving him to be trans. I love Trans Octavio headcanons! But I hate the overfeminization and overtwinkification of him. Let him be strong and trans, is that so hard?

And these topics are the small potatas. My biggest gripe is when people make their ship to be just 'toxic yaoi' and bluh bluh boring. Look, I get it, there's people who eat that slop up. Whatever floats your boat. But holy FUCK the amount of straight-up garbage and romanticization and lack of creativity I see...

Part 2: Missed Potential and Lack of Creativity.

Oh my fucking god. We have this one ship between two queer adults who grow to old age, and you guys can't even let it be healthy? Yes, I get there was war, but it doesn't mean they were fucking toxic when they were dating. Whatever your interpretation is, you don't have to make them cruel, horrible people to each other. Even if your interpretation involves them being morally grey or complex characters, you can make them have flaws without making them abusers.

Let me explain this: Romance is very, very complicated. It's not all sex, and it's not all fluff either. Most interpretations I see of cuttletavio are often 'All or Nothing' on certain factors. The three popular topics people put their stocks in are Angst, Sex, and Fluff. This is expected in fandom, but what bothers me is that so few people actually consider the alternatives, and that its usually ALL of one trait without anything else. Angst for the purpose of just angst doesn't hit, it's just edgy and boring. All smut with no love will wear thin. Tooth-rotting fluff has no substance if you don't even show the platonic side of their relationship. A good romance is oft built on a good friendship. Why not delve into those aspects? If you need them to kiss to tell they're in love, then you're doing it wrong.

Of course, that critique is moreso a small one. Beginner writers can easily fall into those and that's alright. Why it bothers me is because there is such a drought of good content- at least from my scope of view thus far- in cuttletavio. There is potential for greatness (and I am not slacking on trying to showcase this; I am working on my own content in the meantime), but hardly anyone delves into it. Why not explore how they got to know each other? The complexities of their characters? Tropes are alright, but get to a deeper level, and find the human within the idea. Not only that, but explore the world they're in! The circumstances of why they're in war! The politics, the governments, and the cultures of the time. These are old men in a fictional post-apocalyptic society devoid of humans. The inkfish could have evolved culturally in completely different ways! Please, just explore SOMETHING!

Y'wanna know why the whole toxic yaoi shit bothers me so much? Because it lacks creativity. It's overdone. Stale bread. It's like the slop they serve in a school cafeteria. You can get toxic yaoi ANYWHERE! It's such a common, overplayed trope for mlm ships, that you'll never go devoid of it. So why make cuttletavio into it? I haven't seen anything creative enough to excuse it. All i've seen is people committing character assassination and stripping them of any of their intrigue or humanity. It's bland. I'm sick of it.

Conclusion.

I'm too exhausted to write any more of this but yeagh. Just sick of this shit. There is potential to these two old men, both in their youthful and elderly years. Let them make love, war, friendship, and peace. Don't reduce them to poor dollar-a-dime toxic yaoi tropes that have become tired and sloppy from years of poorly written BL and similar.

If you can't write/draw/etc. good romance or sex without making them abusive in ANY way (cheating, non-con, physically, emotionally, etc.) then you need to learn how to write complex characters and complex stories. You can have characters argue without it being abuse. You can have complicated dynamics without all that.

[i-read-that-manga-for-you]

Given

Admittedly, I read this manga a long time ago. Like when chapters were still coming out. I was still in high school at the time (holy fuck) and couldn't really articulate my feelings as well as I can now.

I had left this review (bits and pieces of it) on a manga site and decided I might as well put it on my tumblr, finetuning it, of course. First post, because in spite of its flaws, Given is still close to my heart. And I reread it again (somewhat) to make this a better review. I hope each person who reads this will reimburse me with 50 cents each (jk don't). So here it is. My impression of Given, with !!some!! talk about how SA is treated in BL/Yaoi culture in general.

Or not, this is just my two cents with no anthropology degree.

Do take what I say with a grain of salt, a piece of creative media does not exist in a vacuum, but this review treats it as one at times because I'm not really skilled enough to talk about any wider implications. I'm just some guy giving my review.

Spoilers ahead. Go ahead.

TW: Sexual Assault.

Honestly, this manga made me feel a lot. Good and bad feelings. But let's focus on what I liked.

Ugetsu.

He's on the phone, shhh.

I found Ugetsu to be a very compelling character, and it was a huge shame that he vanished partway through the manga. Basically? I have no criticisms about him as a character, he has his flaws and he's nuanced. He's interesting and compelling, and it's clear that he's someone who is still growing and learning to walk on his own two feet. I won't deny that his relationship with Akihiko was very toxic, but I definitely think this isn't something that can be blamed solely on him.

But with this out of the way. Let's talk about the pairings.

Let's talk about Akiharu.

Kizu Natsuki is an amazing artist... Even when I have certain issues with this manga.

Well. I have a lot of qualms with Akiharu.

For starters, Akihiko assaulted Haruki. I'll never forget that. The fact that they ended up getting together anyway was a huge point of contention for me. Given was framed as a story about love more than a traditional story about BL/yaoi which (sorry) usually leans towards the sex. (This is not to say that sex and romance are separated, well they are but they are linked rather than being one in the same. You can have either, like they're hot/cold water but they come from the same faucet.)

But I feel that having this scene in rather than an argument feels completely wrong. I'm someone who will digest pretty much anything the world throws at me, but the Akiharu assault scene came off wrong and it came off scary. (Note: I say scary but I definitely mean much more than that, I just feel like "shouldn't be romanticized" doesn't encapsulate all of it. This topic is not something I'm qualified to talk about, so I don't want to overstep any boundaries.)

And to be honest, that's good because SA shouldn't be romanticised, for that, a big well done to our author. I just wish the aftermath was dealt with better.

This is terrifying. Please retract your words.

In spite of the SA scene being scary, afterwards all seemed to be resolved the moment it was revealed that Akihiko had nowhere else to go.

Everything for them goes uphill from here. Yay.

I just have to wonder what was the point of that buildup if you were just going to allow things to end nicely like that. With a scene like that, you'd think that the manga was saying that "SA is scary, it's terrifying and it's something that you shouldn't forget even if it's BL/Yaoi." But, why did it end up like this.

What I'm trying to say is: What does it matter that Akihiko apologised (twice), he still assaulted Haruki, he assaulted a friend. Even worse is the way that they're framed as a healthy couple afterwards, this just made me all the more uncomfortable. I feel like this is saying "SA is scary" but also saying "the power of love and friendship absolves everything". I've seen some people talk about the fact that SA happened, but haven't seen them say how it was "resolved". I think it's more to do with yaoi/BL fiction culture, that we've grown to accept SA that is unaddressed in our media to the point that Akihiko's apology is like a prayer more than something that's not even worth a second glance.

Saying that Akiharu started off rocky is an understatement, but if I pretend it never happened, I can say for sure that they are much healthier than Akigetsu, and they deserve each other. It's just not good storytelling especially because I don't really understand the motivations of Haruki liking Akihiko.

I once said that Haruki's character arc was based on Akihiko and that was my bad. I was wrong. Haruki, in fact, has a minor character arc, that isn't really to do with Akihiko, about how he feels insecure surrounded by geniuses in the band and this gets resolved by Akihiko saying that they wouldn't be able to function if all of them were geniuses, and Haruki himself seeing Akihiko hard at work. But I had completely forgotten about this arc, my bad, but my point still stands. Haruki deserved a better character arc.

I don't have a smart comment for this unfortunately. Eat your veggies??

In spite of saying this, I'm not an Akiharu hater, I swear. But I just found that ship much less compelling than Akigetsu in general. Akigetsu was a relationship where they were both incredibly toxic towards each other, there was an imbalance in the fact that Ugetsu literally owned the place they were living in, as well as how he'd kick Akihiko out whenever things were rocky. However, I think the end of their relationship was dealt well on both sides, their toxicity towards each other was framed in a negative light as it should have been. They ended the relationship and went their separate ways, this was the best ending for them. For Akiharu and Akigetsu: The difference between these two relationships is that one was dealt well and the other was dealt wrong. Akiharu deserve each other and Ugetsu deserves to learn how to grow by himself.

Anyway, another point of contention was, in spite of the healthy nature of Akiharu. Somehow, the friendship between the two couples seems to have waned and it was pretty disappointing to see. I think it started before this, but the first time it was obvious to me was this scene.

I know you're in the middle of something, but don't be mean to Mafuyu >:(.

Context: This is Chapter 40. Akiharu are in a moment of intimacy and Uenoyama is knocking at their door trying to get advice.

We've seen that Mafuyu is a very reserved person, to see that Akihiko was so ready to tell Mafuyu to stop coming over (even if it is to stop him from coming over so suddely) right to his face was extremely immature.

Basically, imagine if that had been Mafuyu. Personally, I feel like Mafuyu would have been hurt like hell and closed right back up. This scene is something played for laughs and that's something so disappointing. Given is shown to be a band of friends, but in the end it seemed more like two couples who hang out sometimes. Also the fact that both Akihiko and Haruki are pushing Uenoyama to get Mafuyu to rejoin the band. That's something else that bothers me heavily. That they're treating Mafuyu as Uenoyama's responsibility because they're dating. It's a band that is sure to fall apart if you are not making an effort to support each other equally. I mean, it doesn't have to be entirely equal but points for effort and they get no points here. It's funny because they were at least a little self-aware of this prior.

Dating in a band is something that is nuanced, of course. But it sure is funny to see them practically go down the same route they condemned.

That's my criticism of Akiharu.

So, what about the other instance of SA? I'm talking about Shizusumi and Hiiragi, of course.

Let's talk about Shizuragi.

Here they are! Let's talk about them!

Admittedly the first time around, I wasn't particularly into Shizuragi, I was too busy mourning the absense of Ugetsu. But it was during their sex scene where I realised something was very wrong. I was having flashbacks to the Akiharu assault chapter but this time it was played as "love" rather than something reprehensible. Once again, assault was in the manga and it, once again, resolved with badly.

I feel like sexual assault being played off as "love" and being resolved literally the next chapter with the victim being all kosher with it, should be garnering people's "??? what the fuck"s and not to bat for the opposing team for once but where are the complaints. I've actually seen some people talking about this chapter, but I would have expected more.

Hiiragi said he was scared and was crying, but they still fucked anyway. :D <- smile of shock.

Um what. Haha... ha........ :D <- terrifed smile of shock.

I don't know whether it would have been worse that he knew he was assaulting Hiiragi or whether he didn't know at all. But he knew.

Shizusumi confessed his love the morning after and it was all okay. But, to be honest, the fact that it was played off as being "all okay" makes this even worse. It's normal in yaoi/BL for SA to be played off as love, but you'd think that the last place you'd see this is in Given of all places. SA is SA and the fact that Hiiragi was so accepting of what happened to him afterwards says something about this the culture of BL/yaoi and how we just go along with it says something about this sentiment of how "yaoi is always going to be yaoi".

We're done? We're done.

There are no more SA scenes (that I can remember). But I do want to touch on Mafuyu and Uenoyama as briefly as possible (This is a recount of my experience after all). So, Mafuyama.

Ah, yes. The start of everything.

Admittedly, I didn't actually find their relationship super compelling. This is because I tend to get tunnel vision on characters I like (in this case, I heavily tunnel visioned on Ugetsu). I do like them both, they just didn't fit within my vision. I thought they were sweet but I also see a lot of complaints about how Mafuyu was stuck on Yuki and Uenoyama was getting backseated and I do agree with this. Kind of.

I think Mafuyu's story is about growth as a person, it's like what people say: You don't move on or lose your grief, you grow around it. Grief doesn't get smaller, you just get bigger. The person he loved died and I don't think it's fair to say that he has to get over Yuki. Grief is something that sticks with you everywhere, something you have to carry every day. They're still teenagers, they're still young and still have room to grow.

But as a story? Sheesh, instead of Haruki having no place in their circle. I felt like Uenoyama, even when he's the protagonist, wasn't given his spotlight in his own story. There is no character arc for him, there is nothing for him and that's just not fair. There are two people in a relationship, so why does it always feel like, narratively, Uenoyama always comes as an afterthought?

You could have had a character arc about this... Relationships are meant to be balanced, sweetie...

I just think it's a shame, but they're nowhere near as unhealthy as the other couples in Given, so I'm giving them a gold star.

(Minor irk, I do not remember when this happened but why the hell does Yayoi (Uenoyama's sister) get a character arc (where she comes to an understanding about Mafuyama feelings for each other, but also the gay in general) but the man himself doesn't?)

So, with Mafuyama, I feel like the story could have focused a little more on Uenoyama's side. But I feel like it's similar to how Haruki's story kind of got the backseat to Akigetsu drama happenings at the time. Shrug, we can't have it all.

He's beautiful...

That's honestly... all my thoughts. Wow! That was a lot of them. I think there's a lot to be said about how yaoi treats SA and dub-con in general, even in a manga that's not even focused on the sex.

With that said, I don't think BL shouldn't have SA or dubious scenes but the aftermath should be dealt with better afterwards. I think with Given, it's a start that the SA (at least with Akiharu) wasn't romanticised, but the aftermath was just poorly executed.

But I'm not the yaoi police, I hold no authority and I don't support purity culture. I'm not an anti-anything and I also believe that fiction should be fiction. What people enjoy should no way equate to a person's worldview. But, this was just all my perspective and my opinion. I said it and now I'm done. Haha... Anyway, my paypal is—

[kingxgarm]

Yay! FNAF fic! Finally! I've been meaning to write more fnaf based stuff AGES ago, but I never got around to it, or had any good ideas, I hope this changes that lol

This fic is gonna get wild and gay oh and toxic cuz I can't write a Willry fic without toxic old man yaoi

[brainfilehasstoppedworking]

you have inspired me to make takaaki and kijo bitter exes in my danganronpa au, i even made this book for not only reactions, but to show the amount of drama those two have, it's called havoc in the theater

i know that this is a bit creepy, but you and a lot of other people have made me a fun of danganronpa again, and made takaaki one of my favorite characters :)

Okay. 1. YESSSS!!! Another one for the toxic yaoi!!!! THE EXESSS!!! YAY!!! And 2. AWWWWW!!! I'm so glad about that!!! That makes me so happy because like. Takaaki is my fav ever and I just make dumb shit about him so that means a lot!!! Especially that you like him because of me.

Bdurhrhehe.

I'm kinda flustered rn hehehe

[polycharismas]

i think something about the way d.ead plate was seen as in general just contrasts so much with what the actual game says about these characters . like . before i actually watched a playthrough i had a really bad idea of what the game was and for like a bit i held on to that very shallow idea . Like . idk . haha toxic yaoi Yay or something . but as time went on i just came to realize the amount of depth in every single aspect of this narrative and realized watering it down to just being toxic yaoi cannibal game was . so nothing . so wrong . insulting actually . i don't know if i can explain with words what interpretations like that feel for me but its so easy to apply something similar to that with like m.arried in red because People are like that but after spending so many months knowing these games it just makes me appreciate the reql meaning behind the plot sooo mcuh more .

[miyamiwu]

My Twitter experience has been mainly seeing pretty art (yay!) and seeing posts of people just reading/watching Blue Lock for the homoerotic subtext (nay)

I mean, shipping is totally fine, no problem. But hating on Isagi for getting in the way of nagireo??? Hating on either Nagi or Reo because one of them is somehow bad or just manipulating the other??? Hating on character xyz or arc abc because it's bad for your ship??? Calling ryusae a toxic ship (wth)??? And lots of other shipping wars...

Like uuuuughhh, Blue Lock isn't even tagged as shounen ai/yaoi. Ship all you want, but don't disregard what the story is actually about just to push your ship agenda. It really pisses me off

Oh yeah.. Also we've been shitting a lot on kenyu recently but can we just appreciate how he took that L from Chris and within..minutes? Adjusted his kick so that the ball took an entirely different trajectory? Like jwjehrjebdjshbeejbe