#I love the favorite coworker dynamic sm

[fumifooms]

Raising my eyebrow

[andresmounts2]

I finished watching TSLOCG today so I'm gonna ramble about it so hard. Uhh ignore this post because it's literally just infodumping & ranting.

Intro:

To start off, I love this show sm. I love the characters & the atmosphere & their dynamics, but I hate the pacing. The characters had so much potential, but I love the growth Leighton went through. (She's very clearly my favorite)

Literally one episode a girl will be with this new boy and they'll be head over heels for each other then by the end/beginning of the next episode they've already broken up.

Kimberly:

Like Kimberly & Jackson. They were pining for so long, they ended up together for 2 ish episodes then Canaan comes along for ONE episode and they're in love. It made me so mad because I could tell they were going to break them up. Like Kimberly was head over heels for this guy for like weeks, and her coworker who she's never had feelings for before is suddenly her new crush. (And now that I think about it they completely dropped the scholarship storyline??? Did she make a lot of money, is she just waiting it out, is she going to tell her parents? Hopefully they'll address that in season 3.)

Whitney:

Or the way Whitney treated Canaan. She was with the coach, then with Canaan, then with the bio bro, and now she's back to him. And now she's upset that Kimberly & him have a thing going on. They were literally together & she messed it up. Which is a huge communication issue. If they spoke & set their boundaries clear, they probably could've avoided this. They are grown adults, 18-19 & they couldn't even text each other about their problems.

Bela:

And Bela!!! Don't get me started on her. I disliked her character for so many reasons. She's just an unfunny jerk. Like from the beginning she never understood boundaries. For example, the way she would steal the other girl's clothes, pushing them to go to parties, forcing them into being open about their private lives, etc. I could handle her being the odd one who's extremely open, but she's also a bad person. Like she had so many opportunities to stop being a jerk, like with the magazine situation, but she does the wrong thing anyway and gets upset when people rightfully call her out. She shouldn't have been shocked when she was "cancelled" and she never told the other girls the whole situation so if painted her out to be the victim of a misunderstanding. I understand her desire to be liked & having to fight harder for her jobs- which is also what I don't like about Eric.

Eric & Bela:

Eric is a cishet white boy, he had absolutely no business trying to overshadow Bela when she was trying to impress Dan (I think that was his name). He already knew how much harder she had to work to get the same offers as him but he STILL went out of his way to take her spotlight. And he didn't have to. He had opportunities lined up, his comedy group was already well known. He didn't have problems making it in comedy, but he knew that Bela did. Bela cheating was horrific & unnecessary, but at least you can kind of understand the reasoning behind it.

[masterthespianduchovny]

The counter argument to people being against Sam/Rebecca for legitimate reasons are claims that Sam is being “infantilized.”

These age gap conversations in general are difficult to have because one side won’t acknowledge that just because two people are adults doesn’t mean they are in the same place emotionally and mentally. And this is a very important thing to note.

Someone being 18, a legal adult in America (I think you can date adults at 16 in the UK), doesn’t mean they are able to date a significantly older person, say 38, without a problem. Because, more times than not, which is an understatement, there’s a lot of fucking problems in an age gap relationship even if the older person isn’t dating the younger for nefarious reasons.

It is not infantilizing Sam or any young adult to say, “hey, this relationship may be detrimental to them because of their age.” That is just…facts.

Many people on tumblr and other SM sites often talk about how they still feel like kids at 22 and are still figuring life at, despite having jobs, kids, and shit. Despite being in full blown relationships, these young adults don’t feel like adults and that’s because you aren’t magically mature just because you’ve reached an arbitrary age to be declared a legal adult.

You just aren’t.

And being mature in one aspect of your life or regarding emotional development doesn’t mean you’re mature in other aspects. At 17, I was mature enough to understand this.

Because maturity isn’t just something you obtain like your degree or license, it’s an ongoing, ever evolving thing.

It’s life experience. As in how you learn and grow from it.

Acknowledging that someone doesn’t have significant life experience isn’t infantilizing them, it’s giving an important perspective to a crowd of who is essentially arguing “age ain’t nothing, but a number.”

If you’re all for an 18 year old dating a 38 year old, why not a 16 year old and a 36 year. It’s only a two year difference, right? And what if that 16 year old is really mature? Most would have an issue with that. People are justifying a significantly older person dating a younger person due to legality and not they are actually mature and on the same level. But there’s not much difference between a 16 and 18 year old or an 18 year old and a 20 year old. But guess what, there is a significant difference between people between the ages of 18-22 dating people a decade or more.

I literally just turned 30 last week and, even when I was 25, after a while I could tell when I was speaking to a teen or someone in their early 20s. Because, whether or not you get along with them, there are just some things that, because they haven’t had enough life experience, they don’t have the nuance or perspective to engage with you a certain way and this is even on a non romantic level.

And, in some cases, the younger person is more “mature” not because they’re actually that mature, but because the older person is that immature.

So before I get into the issues with Sam and Rebecca, let me give you four examples of age gaps relationships:

1. A friend of mine dating an older man when she was 23 and he was 38. She was a manager at a gym and he was a gym member. They would have sex and hang out, but she wanted commitment. Whenever she asked him about it, he’d get weird on her. After finally breaking it off months later, he “loved” her and finally wanted commitment, but she’d moved on. While she dated him, I told her my two cents on the situation and left it alone. Last month, she recalled this conversation as she groaned in displeasure hearing about an age gap relationship. She’s now skeptical of older people dating significantly younger people.

2. A friend of mine was 18 dating a 28 year old. We all worked at a pizzeria. He watched her on the cameras from the back when he became a manager—got mad if she talked to male coworkers. Used to gaslight her, controlled her via manipulation, and other gross toxic shit. After emotionally tormenting her for a year or so and pressuring her to live with him, which her parents allowed due to some issues they didn’t want to exacerbate, he cheated on her. They’re broken up now. She was always stressed out while with him.

3. A girl got into her first and only relationship when she was 19 with a man who was 32. They’re now married 23 and 36. She wants to wait to have kids and on her birthday he gifted her baby clothes. Make of that what you will.

4. A girl, 22, dated her 37 year old professor. At 28, she feels like she’s outgrown him and is disturbed about how and when they got together. And one night she heard him advise his friends to date younger girls so they can mold them. Yeah…

Sure you have marriages that have age gaps that lasted, but even then, very few of those are actually healthy. The younger person is usually taking orders from the older partner, can’t do certain things, doesn’t have any true agency, skills to survive on their own, etc. What typically happens is after that person becomes older, they begin to question their relationship because what seemed okay when they were younger, is unsettling after becoming older.

Like I said, take out the nefarious shit, and there is still a significant life experience gulf between Sam and Rebecca and that is one of the many issues with this pairing. Despite what some romantics and media loves to say, “love does not conquer all.” Most of the marriages that end in divorce isn’t because they couple fell out of love, it’s due to finances. Love couldn’t conquer that. Some marriages end because one of them changed or they could’ve overcome their vast differences.

I’m not saying Sam and Rebecca are on a path for marriage or are even in love, they aren’t, however, they idea that just because they get along and have some things in common means it would be a great relationship is very shortsighted. There isn’t even enough significant interaction to prove this. Getting along on an app isn’t the same as connecting face to face. And none of this can overcome Rebecca’s life experience and, relatively speaking, Sam’s lack thereof.

And I’d argue that, on average, athletes tend to be immature because they live in such a bubble where people constantly kiss their ass. Which makes Sam look more mature than he probably is.

Even then, being with an older person ages you. This younger person misses out on so much, many of which they regret, because they’re trying to be mature enough for their older partner. They don’t want to seen as immature for doing young shit when that’s exactly their age range.

But let’s get into the real consequences for Sam here:

1. Sam has to keep his relationship a secret. The media will tear him up about dating/fucking the owner of the team. And so will fans. People love to mention he’s being infantilized because he’s young and black, how do you think that is going to go if anyone finds out about them? Racism, baby. He won’t suffer from sexism, however, they will question his place on the team and if he deserves to be there. This will taint him and even cause issues with his parents. So secret relationship it is.

2. If his teammates found out, this will fracture his relationship with them. Whether or not it’s true, Sam will be blamed for shit outside of his control. They’ll think he only got more playing time, more pay, or whatever because he’s fucking Rebecca. OR they’ll try to ask him for favors and get upset if he won’t do it. His team will think he’s getting favoritism and believe there is a power imbalance between them and Sam as a result. Don’t believe me, Google dynamics once students realize a classmate is dating their teacher or an employee is dating their boss. It usually doesn’t go over so well.

So even if the relationship is loving and healthy, Sam will suffer from being with Rebecca. Because if it's a secret, it’s going to bother him eventually that they have to sneak around and the anxiety of being caught. If it’s out in the open, he will suffer harassment, alienation, his play will suffer because his teammates probably won’t pass to him, etc.

Which leads to, 3: transferring teams. But how is that fair? Sam is developing well under ted and now that may delay his development and stock just so he can be with Rebecca? We want this young, black man to succeed, but his career will be kneecapped due to his relationship. Sam is serious about football and this would be a major blow to him.

Like I said, take out nefarious shit and this relationship is still detrimental to Sam. And even with a healthy relationship, there will still be a disconnect that will lead to their relationship ending because they are in two vastly different places in their lives.

That is not infantilizing Sam, that’s reality.

And, again, that power imbalance is massive. We saw how easy it was for Rebecca to send Jamie back to Man City. She has so much power, control, and influence over Sam’s career and livelihood. She can dictate how much or how little they offer to pay him during contract negotiations.

And this is the ship people are getting upset at others rightfully taking issue with?

It doesn’t even make sense for Rebecca to go along with this either. She played a part in Keeley breaking up with Jamie, which age, Jamie being younger, played a key part in it. She’s even disgusted by Rupert dating a significantly younger woman. I doubt her opinion centered on maturity. She’s not going to suddenly support this relationship if she found out that Bex is super mature.

Rebecca would stand to lose a lot of she were to get involved with Sam and others found out. She’d get dragged through the mud worse than she did after her divorce. She’s lose them support of her staff. And it would fuck up the relationship she has with her players.

Now some Sam/Rebecca supporters have called bullshit on people who are against this relationship, yet support Ted and Rebecca. They claim it’s the same power imbalance or that one exists.

1. It’s not the same power imbalance.

2. Yes, one does exist, but it’s not nearly as wide as it is with Sam and it wouldn’t destroy her either.

Ted has the authority to hire and fire people. He has the authority to facilitate trades, call up people, and send them down. He has a lot of influence that Sam does not. They aren’t equals, but there also isn’t a massive power disparity either.

Rebecca also can’t completely fuck over Ted like she can Sam if she went all scorned woman. Because, doing so, would entail her own demise. Even if you don’t include that, Ted is only attached to Richmond. He doesn’t care about having a career as a football coach in the ways coaches from non US countries do. He can go back and have a career as an American football coach and still be massively successful. Or, if Rebecca did want to fuck him over, he has that bomb as to why he was hired. Ted doesn’t even have to play that card for it to be played by either Higgins or Keeley.

Because one of them will if they feel it’s necessary.

We have no clue what’s going to happen with this storyline. But the idea that people against Sam and Rebecca being a thing, romantically or sexually, being fueled by racism or sexism is misguided, hypocritical, and flat out wrong. If this entanglement is pursued, it stands to harm Sam from various angles and that’s MY objection.

People think this is all about Ted/Rebecca when, personally, I’d lose (some) respect for Rebecca if she got involved with Sam. That would taint her for me. Because let’s be real, many of us are grossed out by Rupert dating, marrying, and then impregnating Bex. Yet, some are okay with Rebecca and Sam getting together and those who are against it are sexist? And I truly believe the same people supporting this ship are also grossed out by Rupert’s relationship.

How is Rupert’s relationship gross, but we shouldn’t obsess over age with Rebecca and Sam? People say Sam is mature enough to date Rebecca, which implies that Bex isn’t mature enough to be with Rupert and that IS sexist.

Even if the writers confirm tomorrow that Ted/Rebecca will never be a thing, I wouldn’t object any less to Sam/Rebecca. If Sam was Roy’s age and in Roy’s position, I’d have way less of an issue.

But you’re going to have a tough time convincing me that a young man who is 20/21 and employed by a 47 year woman who can heavily influence his career isn’t a massive power imbalance that shouldn’t be explored by fans.

I’m really curious to see how this post ages once the storyline plays out. But this post is about exploring what it means for Sam and Rebecca to get involved and how the accusations of infantilizing Sam doesn’t pass the sniff test.

[notyobeerwench]

Team Switzerland

This is my opinion and mine alone.

I am not a IRL shipper and I'm definitely not an anti. I am a woman who has had good, close male friends my whole life. Friends, both gay and straight, who I have made inappropriate jokes with. Men who I have made inappropriate comments about whether I was or ever had been intimate with that person even if they had another SO at the time said comments were made. For most of my life, I have been more of what is termed one of the guys than one of the girls. This is not to say that I do not have close female friendships and it also does not mean I would go after someone else's man. It is just that more often than not, I form closer bonds with men than women in friendship especially when I was younger.

The men I am and have been friends with if they had SOs, they usually became my friend also. They understood the dynamic between my male friend and myself. If the SO did not or had a problem with it, then I adjusted my behavior or removed myself from the situation. Yes, sometimes it hurt me to do so but I understood the boundaries and would not get between my friend and the person they loved.

This being said, no matter whether S&C are in a relationship with each other or other people is none of my business. What is my "business" is whether or not they entertain me each week on a show I adore playing characters who have been beloved for decades on a channel I pay to watch.

So far they have exceeded expectations and I've been satisfied.

Now, for the are they aren't they question I don't know. But as for Team Switzerland (aka me), I put this out there.

These are 2 actors who have an incredible chemistry on a TV show that shows incredible intimacy between a married couple that will hopefully cover 9 plus seasons or however many books Diana writes.

This is a TV show that could not show the intimacy it does in the perspective it does 10 to 15 years ago because it just wasn't how TV was done. This is why it took so long for a screen adaptation to be able to happen.

So S&C were cast and because of the fandom being as passionate as it is, toss in the rise of SM, and you have 2 relatively unknown actors thrown into a shit storm. One that they've committed by contract to at least 5 seasons of (I think that's right) where they have to deal with fan expectations, speculation, and be downright vulnerable together on a regular basis in front of crew and then the audience.

No one knows what this experience is like for them except each other.

Here is the part I'm thankful for for the both of them. They seem to genuinely LIKE and CARE about each other. They are committed partners in this project. They are passionate about the work they do on Outlander. And THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!!

How many times have we heard of co-stars who despise each other and the long term work suffered for it? You might be able to get through a movie despising your romantic lead, but on a long term TV show it ends up being unbearable for everyone. (Cough Castle Cough)

So, this brings me to a difference between my male friends and the S&C dynamic. Any SO they have, would be someone who would have to be a person who is respectful and understanding of the working relationship and friendship they have together because it affects S&C's livelihoods and careers. If someone doesn't get it they'd be out. Period. They can't afford to damage their working relationship for a SO. Sorry but true.

This is Hollywood, we don't truly know these people. We have our perceptions of them and yes PR people play those perceptions up and yes play on us. It is part of the game. Understand that is true for every actor and actress in Hollywood. It doesn't just apply to S&C.

Does this mean that I think the whole shrimp thing is just PR? No. I actually think that these are genuine interactions between genuine friends who happen to be coworkers. If there is anything more between them that is their business and they will share it with the fans in their own time if they care to. Otherwise, I take the whole thing as they found Pornlander subtitle gate to be hilarious and took the piss out of each other for fun. If it generated pub for their show that is still awaiting green light for S5, then happy bonus.

In my opinion if either of them have a SO, that person understands and probably laughed at and encouraged shrimp gate.

I also don't understand people getting pissy about them asking for money/promoting charitable causes they care about. Most actors and actresses in Hollywood do it all the time, Princess Diana dedicated her life to it, but I don't see these facts mentioned when someone criticizes S&C for it. As a consumer, it is up to you to spend your money how you see fit. Not just because your favorite actor said to.

Anyway that's my 2 cents that no one asked for. Lol. If you disagree that's fine, just disagree kindly.

Please excuse any typos as I typed this on my phone.