#I love Durge; but it is hard to be impressed when their big sibling exists/existed

[y-rhywbeth2]

So your last post got me curious - how does the Slayer form in bg3 differ from previous games? Is it stronger or weaker? In the past you've mentioned the Slayer shouldn't be a too-many-armed monster but a corpse like thing surrounded by a tornado of bone shards. Was that how it was depicted in previous games?

how does the Slayer form in bg3 differ from previous games? Is it stronger or weaker?

We're comparing 2e to 5e, so the game balance is completely different, but:

BG2

– Strength and Dexterity set to 25 – Effective AC set to -9 [AC 29] – Magic Resistance set to 40% – Saving Throws set to 2 [this is 2e, lower = better] – Attacks per round set to 4 (+5 damage, 1d8 crushing, 2 cold) – +100 Hit Points [Charname's HP is probably higher than 53 at this point, beating Durge's 153 Slayer HP] – Immunity to imprisonment, level drain, stun, and missile attacks - And its so fast I actually edit the entire party to have its speed, due to impatience crossing the maps.

Using it causes Bhaal to get stronger within you, and the palpable aura causes people to hate and fear you (reputation goes down).

BG3 Slayer, at its strongest:

- Str 25, Dex, 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8 - HP 153 - AC 16 - Movment Speed: 35ft - 3 attacks per round - The ability to make things around you bleed and flee for their lives by growling at them - And healing by absorbing or drinking your enemy's blood or something, I'm not sure on the details past opening your enemy's arteries and healing. [+2d6]

Charname in Slayer form does 32-60 points of damage a round

Durge's most powerful action as the Slayer, 'Slay,' does 11-31 points of damage. Other options include Multiattack = 4-16 damage Relentless lunge = 9-19 damage Piercing growl = 7-28 damage Sumptuous Blood Bath = 2-20 damage

Although, perhaps to be fair, if we're using Durge's upgraded avatar I should compare to Charname's final upgrade from Ascension (a semi-official patch-mod by David Gaider, making the game harder as well as adding details he wanted in the game (but for whatever reason never made it in)).

So, the Ravager, which tbh is less the Ravager and more 'the bhalspawn Slayer upgraded to be closer to The Slayer. It's been a long time since I played with Ascension installed, but the stats getting tacked on for the Ravager in the base game are something like this:

- Melee: 2d20+2 slashing, +12 strength bonus, +3 weapon proficiency bonus, for 19-57 damage a turn [successful hits dispel magic, including illusions, no save; lowers magic resistance of the target by 5%, no save; 49% chance to do an extra 1d8 target of crushing damage and send them flying across the room, causing unconsciousness, and bringing the damage up to 20-65] - Ranged: two attacks a round, causing 10-20 damage, plus the chance to poison the target, adding another 10 points of poison damage over the next five seconds to a maximum of 27. Will also paralyse the target. +3 - 90% magic resistance - Has access to the Urge to Slay [fiends, undead, and those of the evil alignments are charmed to obey the avatar, including your party members] - Can cast blade barrier. [8d8 damage for anybody who tries to get within melee range of the avatar] - Can summon Bhaal's iconic six bone blades [they can detect invisibility, 25% chance to slow the target. The constructs cannot be backstabbed, harmed with non-magical weapons, are immune to mind-control effects, poison and level drain]

None of which holds a candle to the real deal, although interestingly Bhaal's Str and Dex are a point lower:

– Rogue 32/Fighter 27 – Str 24, Dex 24, Con 22, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 17 – Magic resistance 90% – Damage: 1d4+16 points of damage a round via bone daggers (2 of which is cold damage), attacking up to 12 times a round for 204-240 points of damage every round. Also those attacks cripple your limbs via immediate and fast acting cell death, or something. - Levitates, because why not make combat harder for your victims by flying. – HP 212 – AC 26 – Movement Speed: 75ft per minute/round

Things slain rise as zombies or form a blade barrier by exploding into bone shrapnel. Living flesh hit by his blades withers and becomes useless, depriving them of limbs and brain function depending on the location. The Slayer can drive those around him into homicidal frenzies, and force people to love him and do his bidding by touching them. Bhaal can also just generically create any undead which will answer to him just by touching the corpse of people who have been murdered, he just prefers skeletons.

Where'er he goes, a slavishly devoted, bloodthirsty mob/army of the homicidal and the flesh-hungry walking dead do follow. Aren't we lucky he dislikes taking avatar form?

In the past you've mentioned the Slayer shouldn't be a too-many-armed monster but a corpse like thing surrounded by a tornado of bone shards. Was that how it was depicted in previous games?

God, I wish.

Tabletop versions of the Slayer have stayed consistent with Bhaal's description.

While the version in Murder in Baldur's Gate is described as 'hulking' and Bhaal's manifesting in his spawn's fragile mortal bodies apparently involves a lot of bone snapping and the twisting and rending of flesh; the avatar is described as 'corpse-like' and it's listed as medium humanoid (both prospective hosts were human, so odds are a halfling, gnome or dwarf would remain a small humanoid).

The Dragon Magazine version, written by the BG2 writers, notes that the Slayer is 'demonic-looking' and has tell-tale signs of Bhaal's influence, but is still, visually, a 'version of itself.' No change in size categories either.

In the video games they went with the big fuck-off red thing. Although, imo, the BG2 version looks more insectoid.

[A sprite taken from the wiki]

This is likely because Bioware figured it'd be hard to make the regular floating corpse look visually impressive within the limitations of the game engine. I assume.

Here's its concept art:

I still don't know what to make of that. Is it sticking its tongue out? Is that a probiscis?

BG3 interpreted this design as 'lizard.'