#I know that baby Astyanax is dead

[reach-for-the-horizon]

Guys what happened to little Ajax I am losing my mind I need to know

[nonbinarylocalcryptid]

In this whole scenario where Astyanax lives, I guess the encounter with Poseidon would have been a loooot different...but not much because then we would have no Odyssey.

And because Odysseus does actually have braincells (I know, shocking, but he has his moments), he also asked Aelous for some kind of baby float, because guys, we are on a ship, in the middle of the sea, ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

So burrito baby is safe in Ruthlessness. But hear me out, I think it would have gone like this:

Poseidon:

🎶And now it is finally time to say goodbye, today you die

Unless, of course, you apologize

For my son's pain and all his cries🎶

Odysseus:

🎶Poseidon, we meant no harm

We only hurt him to disarm him

We took no pleasure in his pain

We only wanted to escape

A father's rage

Is righteous in nature

As a father

That much I can underst...🎶

*music stops*

Poseidon: wait a minute, how would you know? You haven't seen Telemachus in a decade, give it or take

*Odysseus gestures vaguely at Astyanax in the baby carrier wrapped around his torso*

Poseidon, deadpan: where did that thing come from

Odysseus: I'm sure I don't have to explain reproduction to you, keeping in mind the number of demigods...

Poseidon: don't play with me mortal, where did that baby in particular come from?

Odysseus: well, I'm sure you are in touch with your brother Zeus, king of gods?

Poseidon: go straight to point

Odysseus: well he asked me to unalive a baby back in Troy...

Poseidon: and you dare to keep the infant as yours???

Odysseus: I was left without a choice! Curse me if I do, curse me if I don't! Keep the child or end his life! A god who demands a baby's life is not worthy of workship

*Eurylochus is doing that gesture thing with his hands of "dude stop talking now" where Poseidon can't see him* (but when has that stopped Odysseus?)

Poseidon: you dare to commit blasphemy in exchange of your enemy's son life?

Odysseus: as far as I'm aware, my enemy is dead, and there's no one to take care of this baby, may as well take him with me back to Ithaca. I'm sure as a father you will understand, but it's a shame the very same thing can't be said about your brother

*at this amazing point of the conversation Eurylochus is no longer looking at his brother in law, he is in fact looking at the stormy sea, probably thinking about trying to reach Ithaca by swimming*

Poseidon: and yet I can't left you leave now, you have wronged my son, and by doing so you have wronged me

Odysseus, quick thinking about how to bullshit his way out of this once more: but lord of waves, how would you go on knowing that you left this child become an orphan twice?

Poseidon, now getting why Athena likes this mad lad in particular and because of that, despising him a lot: no need to worry, he'll die too and he'll never know

*music starts again and it ends as we know*

[gareleia]

THE KNITTING SAGA BUT ODY PULLS A BRUCE WAYNE

update: my co-writer friend FINALLY got a tumblr account, so I can tag them now!!

previously: part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4

okay, bear with me for a moment. odysseus' perspective in all of this would be fascinating. and you know what is also fascinating? the way we can do whatever we want in this AU. so we can and will keep baby Astyanax alive.

to start with, Ody doesn't kill the baby. obviously. the reason is that, while he's having his fascinating little soliloquy about the morality of child murder in JAM, some terrified nursemaid that had been hiding somewhere in the room (I imagine her behind a conveniently shaped vase) picks up a dagger and stabs him in the shoulder from behind.

obviously she fails to do the deed, and he quickly and almost automatically kills her. but he's still stabbed. non-lethally, but enough to greatly hinder him.

Ody decides to go back to his people to get first aid. he can't bring himself to kill the baby, but he also can't just leave it there for others to find, because there's no telling if the remaining Trojans would rescue the boy, or if the Greeks would take him as a prisoner/slave or adopt/lose him somewhere where Odysseus can't ensure Zeus' prophecy won't come true. so Ody takes the baby with him.

the soldiers are,,, not impressed.

Eurylochus, looking at the infant: so, uh. what do you have here, captain? Odysseus, avoiding eye contact at all costs: a smoothie-

Eurylochus in particular is beside himself thinking about the implications. but overall people are too happy about finally going back home to really make much of a fuss about it, so it's fine (for now).

anyways Odysseus is still on edge about the baby's (and everyone else's) safety, so at first he tries to bring the boy with him everywhere. but his injured shoulder doesn't allow him to actually carry the kid too much. so that job falls to Eurylochus.

Eurylochus is soooo enthusiastic about the prospect, especially when the infant starts biting his chest, trying to nurse.

the baby: h o n g r y eurylochus: ARGH! GET YOUR GODS' DAMNED KID, BRO! odysseus: it don't bite eurylochus: YES IT DO

Odysseus prohibits everyone from using the baby's real name, both to keep its origins a secret from potential enemies, and to avoid getting attached to it (in case he actually decides he wants to kill it). so Eurylochus nicknames the baby Aphe, from greek "αφαιμάσσω", which means "to leech". because the damn brat keeps biting him.

eventually he and Poletes get into a heavy debate about whether or not it's mean to call a baby a bloodsucker, and Ody, who'd been having a crisis of faith, steps in and settles it for good.

from this point on, Astyanax the Prince of Troy is officially dead. and Odysseus is bringing home his infant son Aphemachus the Prince of Ithaca. etymology is somewhere along the lines of: afaimasso (to leech) + machos (war) = Aphemachus (the blood-sucking war; the war that sucked our blood)

Eurylochus is the one who Aphemachus had gotten attached to the most, due to all the carrying (and the biggest boo). He cries all the time when they're apart, and only Poletes seems to somehow be able to distract the boy, so they end up watching him in shifts.

aphemachus: *wailing in the dead of night* eurylochus, groaning: poletes, your leech is awake. poletes, also groaning: until the sun is up it's your leech.

Odysseus at the same time is still having doubts, so he doesn't trust himself to be too close to the baby.

those thoughts will haunt him for years, and will eventually play a huge role in their relationship, even after Ody starts forcing himself to spend time with his new son to forge a bond that would hopefully stop Aphemachus from destroying Ithaca.

Aphemachus indirectly saves Poletes' life. because when they reach the cyclops' island, Poletes stays behind with the majority of the soldiers to look after the baby. as a result Polyphemus doesn't kill him.

the downside is, Polyphemus almost gets a drop on Odysseus, and in an effort to push him away from danger Eurylochus gets severely injured. his right shoulder never quite recovers, and very deep down he blames Odysseus for needing help in the first place, because not freezing up in battle is the first and most important lesson they were taught as children, and then Ody went and froze up anyway.

sidenote, in Mutiny later on Odysseus will intentionally aim for said shoulder, exploiting the weakness that Eurylochus will have been very put out by and insecure about. just to add to the overall drama.

what none of them know yet, is that Odysseus had royally pissed off Zeus by ignoring his 'friendly advice' of infanticide. so much so, in fact, that Zeus tasks Ares with ensuring that Aphemachus grows up to destroy Ithaca.

as a result, poor kid grows up with the voice of bloodthirsty God of War in his head, constantly trying to convince him that everyone secretly hates and wants to kill him, that he's been stolen from Troy for nefarious purposes, and that it's his duty to avenge his REAL family. so, basically, your standard run-of-the-mill gods-induced paranoid schizophrenia.

odysseus: so, what do you want for dinner? ares: YOUR HEAD ON A SPIKE aphemachus: a bagel ares: NOOO aphemachus: two bagels

as you can guess, the poor boy's mental health is... Not Great™. he grows up a difficult kid, sensitive, too smart for his own god, prone to angry outbursts. think a cross between Damian Wayne and Jason Todd. he's also very paranoid, and remember that Odysseus still has doubts? Aphemachus can sense that, and that scares and angers him more, which makes him lash out, to which Odysseus also tries to keep his distance even more. he doesn't have much experience at actual hands-on parenting, and it doesn't help that he's not sure if he has a right to act as a father to the boy he had indirectly orphaned and directly almost killed.

poletes, exasperated: aphe, dear, we've talked about this. you know violence is never the answer, right? aphemachus: right. aphemachus: violence is the question, and the answer is YES-

so the most consistent positive influence Aphemachus has in his life are Eurylochus, Polites, Perimedes and Elpenor - until the latter dies and Perimedes decides to stay away.

Eurylochus is the stone-faced stern mother hen. he's the one that makes lists upon lists in his head of what the baby, and later toddler, needs. he enforces bed time, makes him eat as healthy as possible on the ship, etc. as such, his status as 'favorite' is quickly revoked once the kid grows old enough to complain.

the new favorite is Poletes, who spoils Aphe rotten and has a hard time saying no to anything. he's the fun uncle who's always down to play games.

Perimedes and Elpenor are like semi-responsible older brothers, who teach him about all kinds of stuff. Perimedes is the type to give Aphe lots of different chores to keep him occupied, and Elpenor, in contrast, tends to whisk the kid away to get him to relax and unwind. he also likes to teach Aphe about stars and constellations. meanwhile Peri 100% had handed toddler Aphe a knife as a prank to test everyone's situational awareness (think Stabby the Roomba), and got shit from everyone.

eurylochus: let me see what you have! aphe: a knife! ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ eurylochus, going through all stages of grief simultaneously: NO!

Ares, while he detests lying and 'cheating', doesn't want to wait until Aphe grows up to make him wreak havoc. so instead he starts trying to trick the kid into accidentally causing bloodshed. and most of the time he targets Polites, because the peace-loving fool is an affront to everything Ares stands for.

this results in Aphe often running in between someone's legs at most unfortunate times, spilling liquid where people walk frequently, hiding fish hooks in food as a 'joke'…

it comes to a head with a contraption born out of every inch of cunning Ares possesses (not much), all Aphe's wild child imagination and many of Perimedes' trap-making lessions. it's a glorious thing, straight out of something between Home Alone and the Final Destination series.

Nobody ever really catches him, blaming the near-accidents on pure bad luck. Poletes never once notices that something is amiss, thinking he's just clumsy. the only reason he's still alive is because Elpenor is somehow always there to run interference.

Elpenor is the only one to suspect Aphe, but, since he's a dumbass alcoholic, nobody believes him, even his boyfriend Perimedes. Ares gets fed up with this and starts making Aphe target Eple instead, but before anything could really be done Ruthlessness happens, and they come to stay with Circe.

elpenor: I fear no man aphe: (✿◠‿◠) elpenor: but this thing… this thing scares me

it's only after Elpenor's untimely death that Perimedes starts to take his concerns seriously, but it's too little, too late. it's actually an honest to gods accident that Aphe has nothing to do with, but Peri had sat through so much paranoid, drunken rambling from Elpe that it just clicks to him. he blames Aphe, and, despite not voicing his concerns (because nobody would believe him either), he makes it abundantly clear that he doesn't want anything to do with Aphe anymore, to the boy's dismay.

finally, a few important notes on continuity:

in this AU the journey is a bit slower-paced than in canon, so instead of Act 1 happening almost at once after they left Troy, in the Knitting Saga after the Polyhemus fiasco, pissed off Poseidon decides to torture them first before the execution, so they are lost at sea for a couple years in between Remember Them and Storm, before Poseidon gets bored and decides to kill them for good. then they spend a year with Circe as she cooks up a way to send them into the Underworld, in the meantime hoping that Poseidon cools down somehow. then the Underworld and the Thunder Sagas happen a couple months apart, and then Ody (and Aphemachus, who is kept alive by the gods purposefully, so he has a chance to grow up and destroy Ithaca) spend 5 years with Calypso, and then another year trying to get to Ithaca.

Telegonus still exists in this AU, despite not being the son of Odysseus and Circe. instead, he is the unwanted son of Circe and some unnamed sailor from that first batch that she had taken pity upon and let her guard around. because of being born a demigod and living on a magical island his aging is a bit wonky, but he appears to be around 12-15 years old. he's a charming, confident, precocious child, who takes after his mother in personality and approaches. him and Odysseus get really close in the time that the crew stays on Aeaea, because Telegonus is not (as far as Ody knows, at least) prophecized to harm Ithaca and Odysseus desperately misses Telemachus; while Telegonus just imprints on the first dad-shaped adult he sees. Aphe is sad and desperately jealous.

aphemachus: d-daddy??|･ω･) odysseus: do I look like- ಠ益ಠ telegonus: you are my dad! you're my dad! boogie-woogie-woogie! (~˘▾˘)~ odysseus: awww!! yes!! what a good boy!!(✿◠‿◠) aphemachus: ಠ_ಠ

fun fact, Ody considers leaving Aphe on Calypso's island. Aphe, who's like 8-9 at the time, almost expects him to do so. only on the morning of their departure do they have a heart-to-heart about how Ody was a shitty, emotionally unavailable father, and how Aphe only ever wanted to be loved.

fun fact 2, telegonus will make another appearance later ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶

[littlesparklight]

You know how people tends to have this thing where different Achaean pick up Astyanax after the sack and raise him?

Yeah, fuck that. Have Paris grabs his brother’s son and make a run for it when the sack start. Maybe Andromache ask him to in the hope that at least her son may survive. Does Paris choose to let Helen behind? Does Helen refuse to follow him? Who knows. But Paris make it out of the city (maybe with some divine help, maybe just by himself because I feel like he would absolutely know all the ways to sneak in and out of Troy.

Afterwards, no one know what happened to Paris or Hector’s son. They are assumed dead somewhere in the mess that the city became after the sack. Andromache would rather die then tell anyone.

Maybe years later Menelaos and Helen cross paths with Paris and his nephew? Paris went back to his humble roots because who would look for the young heir of Troy and the vain prince in a commoner and his son?

Just, Astyanax getting picked up by Odysseus or Diomedes make me feel kinda icky. Let him be with family.

Awww. Yes good. However Paris ends up with Astyanax, I could see Aphrodite helping him escape! And whether Helen would want to go with him or not, perhaps she realizes it's just safer (as well as missing Menelaos) that she not. It would increase Paris and Astyanax's survival chances!

What makes me mad about Astyanx being "rescued" by this or that Achaean character, is that it's never about Astyanax.

If it was, there is Aeneas and his escapees! If it was, there's the classic but awful "Andromache manages to switch Astyanax with another child"! There is, for the love of fuck, versions where Andromache and Hektor sent their son(s) away to Lydia at some point, and thus he wouldn't even be in the city during the sack! There's having Andromache get away with him, or, as you suggest, Paris!

But no, it's about [insert Achaean character here] and them ~rescuing~ Astyanax, and then, like. Giving him ~a family~. While we ignore that he has family still alive. He's got his goddamn mother alive, enslaved, but who cares about getting her free and reunited with her son?

And no, don't bring up that fucking annoying Epic-derived "there was a prophecy"/Zeus told Odysseus Astyanax would come back to murder his family if he didn't kill the boy (what, like he's been doing to the Trojans? imagine that).

Because that does not happen in myth!

There is literally no version where Astyanax (and his brother, when he has one) survives that include the Greeks being attacked at some point. All they do is re-establish Troy or found new cities.

So it's just about how oh this character feels so sad and guilty so he'll save this baby (while leaving the mother enslaved because who cares eh).

Never mind that Astyanax is not the only child to be killed during the sack.

Agamemnon makes that clear enough in the Iliad itself. Later versions that touch on the sack also bring up the indiscriminate killing. There's a funerary pithos from Mykonos where Trojan mothers attempt to save their sons while those children are being spit like pigs, etc.

Astyanax is just the symbol (which is why he's being murdered in such a showy way; there sure are simpler ways to kill anyone, never mind a child, than throwing them from the battlements). The part that stands in for the whole. Every single male Trojan, no matter how young, is killed during the sack. And I have doubts about the survival rate for girl children who aren't old enough to be "useful" in some way, too.

[katerinaaqu]

Continuing from Part 2

Guilt (P3 + Footnotes)

"Odysseus" Meriones approached him, "Are you alright?"

Odysseus winced in pain. He hadn't realized he had clenched his fist so hard that it hurt him. He unclenched it.

"Yes..." he whispered, "Yes, I'm fine..."

Odysseus moaned. That baby...the look at that infant's face...Astyanax was gone...he had given his place to Telemachus. Priam's slain face was Laërtes...mourning Andromache was his wife... He grasped his head with both hands.

"Damn you Neoptolemus! Damn you Helen for starting it! Damn you Menelaus for dragging me into this... Damn you Palamedes! Damn you all! Why should I have taken this blood upon me?! Why did it have to be me?!"

He sighed.

"Polites...I want to be alone for a little while..."

"Do you think that is wise...?" Polites asked with hidden meaning.

"Wise!" Odysseus voiced like an echo, "No, perhaps not but I got tired of being wise for now..."

Polites sighed.

"At least add some water to your wine...please Odysseus"

Odysseus dismissed him with a move of his hand. He wasn't much in the mood for anything at that moment. He knew war wouldn't be pleasant but these events of just one night were taking the cake. He was exhausted; sleepless for two nights and a full day and right now the Sacker of Cities, the Man of Many Ways was terrified. He collapsed again and his tears overflowed from his eyes, wetting the table below. He grasped his wet hair with his fingers as if he was ready to uproot them.

"Gods! Please Athena, please, I beg of you...if you love me...p-protect my son! Let the miasma fall on me! Not him! I-I...I just wanted to g-go home! I just wanted to see them again...my Penelope...my Telemachus...! I-I never meant for this to happen! P-Please...! I beg of you if you love me...p-protect my son! Don't let the gods' wrath fall upon their heads! P-Please...! F-Forgive me! I...I just...I just wanted to go home!"

He couldn't decide what to pray for first... Words cascaded out of his mouth without any coherent way or syntax. He only prayed desperately, wetting with his tears the table. Sun was already setting and Troy was taken...but at what cost...

*

Menelaus and Agamemnon entered Odysseus's hut one after the other.

"I gotta give it to you, Odysseus!" Agamemnon said, "You WERE telling the truth when you said you could take Troy in one night!"

Odysseus was collapsed upon his chair, looking at them with an unreadable expression to his face. The jug was resting empty somewhere after the feet of his seat.

"Hm..." he hummed, "That's me. I am the trickster, remember? I lie, I scheme and I trick. That is what I do"

Agamemnon raised a brow.

"Are you drunk?!" He asked in disbelief

"One more shame to add to the events of this night..." Odysseus replied bitterly.

"Shame? I do not understand. We finally sacked the city. You can finally go home."

"Home..." Odysseus whispered, "I wonder...what shall I say to Penelope when she asks? Or Telemachus? If he asks 'father what did you do and you were away?', 'I was at war, my son', 'did you fight honorably and sack many cities?'... What shall I say for what we've done...?"

"I do not understand you Odysseus. It was your idea"

"Yeah somehow I do not doubt it..." Odysseus mumbled bitterly, "I was wrong, Agamemnon. This was not what I imagined...what I planned..."

He sighed shifting his position a bit to his chair.

"Priam is dead, you know that..."

"Yeah, like we expected to-..."

"On the altar. On the freaking altar, Agamemnon..."

"Yeah I heard..."

"Imagine that happening to any of us...in our homelands. If one cannot respect the holy laws then what?"

He played a bit with his empty cup.

"Priam murdered on the altar...Cassandra raped mercilessly and now Ajax looks for shelter to the very same altar he dragged her out of, to avoid being stoned to death..." the king of Ithaca rubbed the bridge of his nose, "...death...death and fire everywhere..."

"Odysseus..." spoke Menelaus, "I understand that you are grieving, it was not easy or pleasant but..."

"The boy...he was the same age as my son! Thrown off the wall..."

"Odysseus" Agamemnon spoke again, "I honestly don't understand you. Others would fly from joy with your glory. You had a good plan and it worked. Thanks to you we can all go home."

Odysseus's eyes became bottomless. Even Agamemnon had to lower his gaze against it.

"The blasphemy put us under the anger of gods, Agamemnon. Remember that. Listen..."

Agamemnon seemed like indeed trying to listen something.

"The Trojans are not the only ones mourning. We lost many good men too. We lost Achilles. Or have you forgotten?"

Agamemnon sighed deeply.

"His loss...was tragic indeed" he finally said, "we had our differences but his loss was a great price..."

"Quite so..." Odysseus whispered, "was it really worth it? The price we had to pay to sack Troy?"

He shifted his weight to his chair lethargically. He rubbed his forehead with his free hand for a second. The dizziness bad settled for real in his brain. He leaned his head back again, earning a small cracking sound from his neck.

"And since we are at it, I have a question for you, Agamemnon, son of Atreus, the first among the Greeks... What did the Trojans REALLY do to us to deserve such an end?"

"You're drunk! You don't know what you're talking about!"

Odysseus snorted humorlessly.

"Oh, I am drunk, alright. But I know exactly what I am talking about. And you do too. They took Helen, sure, or at least one of them did. But their real crime against us was that they protected their lands...from us. That's what we would have done as well..."

Agamemnon was ready to speak again but Menelaus stopped him.

"Brother, that's enough"

He then turned ti Odysseus sympathetically.

"Look, Odysseus, I understand that it hurts and I am sorry too that I put you through that indirectly, but please do not melt away. No matter what the actions of others was not your choice."

Odysseus said nothing. He only sighed.

"Will you join us at the games later? You are the hero of the day. Your presence is asked for."

Odysseus scoffed.

"Oh I will be there, alright. I never miss a good party!"

Menelaus smiled sadly.

"Thank you, Odysseus...for everything. I really mean it... I will see you later, when you sober up a little..."

He looked at his friend and added;

"And...we shall mention none...of this" he pointed at him indicating his condition.

Odysseus soullessly nodded as if wanting to attempt some humor.

"Thanks...I appreciate it"

Agamemnon was ready to say something but apparently he decided against it. He only sighed and turned to leave before finally asking;

"Will you come to take a pick from the spoils? You deserve it given it was thanks to you we got in"

The tired king made a dismissive move with his hand.

"No. I'm fine with whatever. Just include me to the next lottery" he replied indifferently

"Are you sure? You deserve a better share"

Odysseus smiled humorlessly.

"Last time I chose and defended my choice, we lost Aias the Telamonian. I think we lost enough for one decade, don't you think?"

It was a failure of attempt for humor and he knew it but Agamemnon only sighed.

"Suit yourself" he said defeated, heading for the exit

Menelaus was about to do the same but apparently something made him stop and turn around.

"Odysseus?"

"Hm?"

"Thank you...truly... You gave me back my honor

Odysseus snorted again.

"With the cost of mine..." he whispered bitterly, "Not that anyone ever thought I had any..."

The king of Sparta, though, shook his head negatively.

"To me you will always be the greatest of all Greeks"

The man who endured all torments looked up and for the first tike a small smile rose to his dry lips. That word of kindness was what he needed for his tormented heart to feel some sort of hope. At least there was finally one who neither blamed him nor glorified him. Menelaus saw his torment and responded. That was enough.

"Thank you..." he whispered

Menelaus nodded his head in return.

"Now rest, my friend. We have a long way before us...we are going home..."

Home...the tormented king of Ithaca thought. Yes, finally they could go home. After 10 endless years they could finally embrace their families. Just few more months of journey and Odysseus could finally go home... All he had to do was to learn to live with what he did... He watched both the kings through his cloudy vision, getting out of his tent and Polites coming back in.

"I am sorry, Odysseus! I couldn't stop them!"

Odysseus dismissed him with a hand gesture once more.

"Don't sweat it, Polites. Stopping a king seems impossible. Gods help us with two!"

Polites smiled softly. At least he would gain some of his humor back, he thought.

"Help me get to my bed, Polites..." sighed Odysseus hoarsely, "I need to rest... I am very tired..."

~~~~

Oh gosh what have I done?! Hehehehe well not sorry...not really! 😆 I hope you enjoyed this ride.

As you see I tried incorporating some of the Epic Cycle to the situation but I did tamper around with the timeliness. The Epic Cycle is a lovely mess anyways and holds many contradictions with the homeric poems but it includes many things.

Now the fragmentary poem Iliou Persis is sven mentioned how Odysseus throws Astyanax off the walls but most sources have Neoptolemus donit and I do agree with those more. Now in Trojan Women by Eurypedes the messenger Talthybius tells Andromache that Odysseus schemed so that her son would be thrown off the walls and that he persuaded the Greeks they couldn't raise the baby. Odysseus doesn't strike much as a baby killer in Odyssey or even the Iliad although he is known for being cruel in his punishments (see the excecution of the 50 conspiring slave girls) but nowhere jn Odyssey does Odysseus refer to that fact even if he does speak of his regrets for other actions of his and if he HAD thrown Astyanax off the walls himself I doubt he wouldn't have made any reference to it so I believe that Iliou Persis should he treated like Telegony when it comes to the homeric poems; a bit contradictory to the homeric epics (unless there is some lost fragment that tells us how Odysseus went on a rampage he could not remember lol 😆 ) so I made a mixture of all the above to show how Odysseus "killed" Astyanax or subconsciously persuaded the Greeks to do it and I added the role of Talthybius here too.

Iliou Persis seems to also be the most violent form when it comes to the Greek side such as that they offer Priam's daughter Polyxene to Achilles's tomb as a sacrifice, thus causing the rage of Athena (I swear the thing was written by a Trojan lol 😆) Eurypedes mentions how Polyxene was offered as slave to Achilles symbolically so she should serve his tomb. I also added the detail of Odysseus trying to persuade Neoptolemus to choose her as his price to speak Andromache but his attempts are a failure.

Drunkenness was severely discouraged in ancient geeece thus the concern in Polites's words when Odysseus uses it as a coping mechanism for the traumatic events of the night. Moreover the Greeks always mixed their wine with water (thus having the modern name for wine in Greek κρασί which comes from the verb in ancient greek which means "to mix") the wine that was not watered was called άκρατον and it was qlmost never consumed unless dipped in bread. The analogy between wine and water depended.

In this story I depict Neoptolemus as somehow a nemesis to Odysseus. Similar to what Agamemnon or Hector were for Achilles. I have no idea why but the idea stuck with me especially since the two are the two candidates for the murder of Astyanax. Somehow I imagined them again as the polar opposites thus the two of them having tension.

Odysseus mentions Thersites who was beaten really badly by him in the Iliad. In other sources it is mentioned that Odysseus has him stoned to death after Theraites attempts treason. In this story Thersites was already dead.

I know that for Palamedes the most famous version of his end comes from Hygenius who writes how Odysseus frames him for treason. However Pausanias mentions from the Epic Cycle that Palamedes drowned at a fishing expedition and that "he believes the murderers were Odysseus and Diomedes". 🤔 somehow I wanted to use a lesser known version plus give a bit room to doubt for instance did Palamedes really fell by accident and Odysseus is guilty for not helping? Or perhaps Odysseus pushed him? Maybe he held him under? Dunno. Leave it to your imagination. I know is not so spicy as the framing story but bare with me hehehe

Talthybius here simply hears "it was Odysseus who planned it" thus sending that information yo Andromache without the rest of the details..

Astyanax uttering a word was totally random. If he were an infant a few months old or almost a year old in Iliad that means he would be around 1 to 1.5 years old when Troy fell so I thought it would be more impactful if the poor baby uttered a word before his end.

The interaction with Andromache was placed there for the dramatics and the impact. When Andromache screams "MY BOY!" I was inspired by the series "The Tudors" when Anne Boleyn laments her final miscarriage (by the way I think Natalie Dormer would make an amazing Andromache!)

The story with Palamedes was also added to make the connection between two mothers and their impact to Odysseus. Plus I thought it would make more sense if Odysseus was furious not only for being embarrassed or that he has to go to war but because Palamedes put his son in danger. (Of course Penelope would be part of that scheme!)

Odysseus refusing to participate at the choice of spoils was just a random detail but as a general rule from Eurypedes it seems that he eats the old Ekavi (Hecuba) as his slave (probably she would be to serve Penelope( so I imagined Odysseus wouldn't want to choose but getting whatever would be lucky for him to further implicate that he wouldn't want anything further to do with the war. He also mentions the incident when Telamonian Aias (aka the great Ajax) went mad when Odysseus won Achilles's armor from him and then he killed himself in shame.

I also wanted to portray the friendship between Menelaus and Odysseus which seems to be really strong since Menelaus always talks with the warmest words for Odysseus.

For further questions and analysis please ask me to the comment section or reblog etc!

I wanna also tag some of my best friends commenters rebloggers etc! Thank you guys! Sorry if I forget anyone!

@loco-bird @aaronofithaca05 @tunguszka20 @doob-or-something @jarondont @prompted-wordsmith @simugeuge @fangirlofallthefanthings

[depressionheiress]

I have been listening to Epic the musical for about a year or so, it's an absolute gem, and I recommend it to everyone who loves poetry, Greek mythology, Greek tragedy or musicals.

I've listened to "the Horse and the Infant" for a millionth time and thought: but what if Odysseus actually didn't listen to Zeus. What if despite all odds, despite it being the Greek tragedy, he saved Astyanax. We all know that in trying to escape fate you only entangle yourself in it worse, Oedipus tried that already, but that's just the thing - Odysseus sheltered Astyanax not because he tried to escape fate, but for the love of his own son, waiting for him home, he hid this orphaned baby as a means to say "I'm sorry". Parents dead, home destroyed... Zeus threatened the same happening to Ithaca through Astyanax, and Odysseus thought "if this happens, I'd want someone to save my boy too. If that is to be my fate, if the gods do not wish to save my innocent people any more than they wished to help the Trojans, if our suffering is no more than your fun pastime, then I'll do one thing that defies you the most - a good thing".

He made sure Astyanax lived. While the city burned around him, Odysseus sang to him about comets and meteors, about men and monsters, about a kind, beautiful woman and a baby boy far away. And Astyanax stopped crying.

He thought one of his father's generals came to visit.

Odysseus wasn't going to take Astyanax to Ithaca. He wanted to find him a good home and never ever let him know he's from Troy. In the meantime Polites became the nanny, because of course who else. Due to this, Polites never went to Polyphemus' cave, he stayed to watch the baby. Euroclus went instead, and Odysseus lost a friend still, but Polites, who trusted Odysseus the most, lived. And that changed everything.

Many, many years later Astyanax still found out. He still was full of heartbreaking rage. He still raised his sword.

But he was raised not by the monster Odysseus had become at the end of the Underworld saga, but by Polites, who hadn't let even the bloodiest war in ancient history harden him.

And Astyanax thought about the gods too - about Apollo, who was Troy's patron god and still couldn't be arsed to answer his mother's prayers. About Athena and Ares both turning away from his father's corpse at Achilles' feet. About so many futile prayers fallen on deaf ears.

And Astyanax lowered his sword wet with tears, not blood.

[babyrdie]

Bro...

Sorry, but as much as I like Odysseus, I can't like this new headcanon that's becoming popular where Odysseus decides to raise Astyanax. I can't help but think how terrifying this is for Andromache. Having her son taken from her, thinking he's dead, hearing years later through some rumor that ODYSSEUS has her baby…

Odysseus was a nightmare for the Trojans, it wouldn't be comforting for Andromache to know that. Like:

His idea of ​​taking the Oath of Tyndareus allowed Menelaus and Agamemnon to demand the recruitment of many men.

In Iphigenia at Aulis, he's so eager to get to Troy that he doesn't mind sacrificing Iphigenia if necessary.

He was one of the top warriors so he certainly caused a lot of casualties (like other warriors, naturally).

He kidnapped Helenus to make him speak the prophecies, and I don't even want to think about his methods to accomplish this.

It was he (with Diomedes and Helen's help) who took the Palladium because it would lead to the destruction of Troy.

It was his idea that overthrew Troy, which resulted in the death and enslavement of many and the destruction of Troy.

There are sources in which although Odysseus isn't said to be the one who killed Astyanax directly, it's said that it was his idea.

When Achilles demanded Polyxena's sacrifice, Odysseus was extremely insensitive towards Hecuba.

He's also listed as one of those responsible for the recruitment of two of the warriors who caused the most damage to the Trojans, that is, Achilles and Neoptolemus. If we consider the version where Achilles is on Skyros, he even made an effort to accomplish this.

In Sophocoles' version, Odysseus is so determined to conquer Troy that he tries to use Neoptolemus to deceive Philoctetes.

From a Trojan's perspective, Odysseus is a monster incarnate. There is absolutely no way for Andromache to know that Odysseus is with Astianax and not be absolutely desperate about it. And she would be desperate and unable to do anything, as she's enslaved by Neoptolemus in another place while Odysseus is in Ithaca. And she couldn't even risk anything, because it wouldn't just be her life at risk, but the life of the son she had with Neoptoleums as well. This would be an extremely cruel scenario for Andromache, who would live in an eternal horror of not knowing.

And Astyanax won't be a baby forever, he'll grow up and discover he was taken by one of the men who caused the destruction of his home and the death and enslavement of his family. It's a horrible scenario for Astyanax as well, it could only be good for him if he killed Odysseus in revenge when he got old enough to do so. Which, by the way, in this scenario is what he would try. He was killed precisely because the Achaeans knew he could be a threat, it doesn't make sense in a scenario where he remains alive Astyanax wouldn't become a threat (not in a prophetic way, tough). Odysseus being an adoptive father wouldn't stop him, just look at how Clytemnestra wanted Orestes dead because she knew he would take revenge for Agamemnon and well…he really took revenge, he killed his own mother! Even Electra wanted this!

And because there is always the possibility of misinterpretation of text, I'm not saying that Odysseus is the worst of the Achaeans or that he's the only one who did something horrible. I literally mentioned Achilles and Neoptolemus causing great damage to Troy, I mentioned Achilles demanding Polyxena's sacrifice, I mentioned Agamemnon and Menelaus as leaders, I mentioned that Neoptolemus kills Astyanax depending on the version, I mentioned that Odysseus received help with the Palladium, and on the Horse of Troy there were other warriors hidden. The point isn't to demonize Odysseus more than other Acheans characters, the point is to consider the feelings of Andromache and Astyanax.

Yes, in the original it's already horrible for Astyanax and Andromache, but putting them in another horrible situation just to make one of the characters responsible for them being in that situation better is…definitely a choice. If this were a version that already existed and you preferred it, I'd understand! But it's not the case…headcanons are harmless, I know, but I can't help but turn my nose up when I see this specific one.

[phantomdecibel]

Whistling Thorn

Endurance of the soul.

Or – Eurylochus meets Astyanax, featuring Lil Ajax.

__________________

It was the dead of night when they finally landed on the island, and Eurylochus was alone.

Or, well –

Almost alone.

Hesitantly, he pulled back the blankets again, just to confirm what he’d already seen, grimacing in confusion all the while. In all honesty, it made no sense.

Because – moments before Odysseus and Polites had left to speak with the locals, promising to be back by sunrise at the latest, They had handed him something. Or rather – shoved something into his arms and ran, something suspiciously heavy and bundled in cloth.

As they’d started away he’d unwrapped the thing, vaguely noting the increase in the speed of their footsteps, revealing–

What. The ever-loving fuck.

“Good luck!” Eurylochus could still hear the amused-terrified lilt to Polite’s voice as he’d left, and Odysseus’s muffled snickers echoed in his mind.

Being in charge of an entire fleet, responsible for the safety of six hundred (five hundred and ninety eight) men? That was fine, Eurylochus could handle it. He was the second in command, he’d had plenty of experience in leadership and keeping people alive, he could look after the crew while Odysseus was gone, and everything would be fine. It was Odysseus and Polites who had the dangerous job, exploring the unknown on their own with no backup.

He knew what he was doing.

Or –

He did know what he was doing; what to expect, how to handle being in charge.

He didn’t know how to handle this, though.

Because in that moment, right after they’d docked and his friends were about to leave, that Odysseus had walked up to him and handed him a bundle wrapped in cloth, and Polites wished him good luck, and they’d vanished, Eurylochus – curious to a fault – had unwrapped the bundle to see what it was.

In his arms wasn’t a heavy bundle of cloth. It wasn’t flowers (like one might expect from having Polites involved), or weapons, or even their last bit of food.

No.

His friends had dumped a sleeping infant in his arms and, ignoring his cries and questions, booked it off the ship.

Eurylochus was… stumped.

He’d never been good with children, even when he’d been a child himself. Odysseus was their brain, Eurylochus himself was the muscle, and Polites their unwavering moral compass (and quite often the one to get them out of trouble with his perfect innocent act).

(…or get them in to trouble while remaining out of it himself, as the smug little bastard saw fit.)

…

…where did they even get it from?

They were on a boat! In the middle of the godsforsaken ocean. There was no reasonable explanation for Odysseus and Polites having, somehow, acquired a baby. And leaving it with him of all people. Him!

Did- did they get it from Troy? Has there, seriously, just been a child on board for the weeks since they left back for Ithaca? …how had they even been feeding it, anyways?

“I am going to be having words,” Eurylochus grumbled to himself, trying to adjust the infant in his arms so it could sleep more comfortably, “with those two, when they get back.”

Walking across the deck, in the dark of night, back towards Odysseus’s quarters, Eurylochus was struck by a sense of deja-vu. Odysseus, rushing past as Troy burned behind him. Odysseus, barely noticing Eurylochus grabbing his shoulder, Odysseus clutching desperately at his chest. A cry, a wail not necessarily inhuman, but certainly not something that belonged on a boat.

…Polites, a brief look of shock marring his expression, before loudly declaring that their Captain was crying, and dragging him into his cabin.

Eurylochus had dismissed it at the time. Odysseus, try as he might to dispute it, cried all the time. It wasn’t exactly an abnormal occurrence, and that night had been difficult on everyone, that man most of all. But now that he held a sleeping child in his arms, retracing Odysseus’s steps from that night, Eurylochus couldn’t deny it any longer.

The odd hours, the growing bags under his friends’ eyes… they’d snuck an infant on board.

If there hadn’t been the risk of alerting the crew, Eurylochus would have cursed his friends out right then and there. As it were, that would raise too many questions – maybe even wake the child. Silently plotting his revenge would have to do for now.

Maybe he’d toss the both of them overboard, just briefly, before the ships departed the island. Once they finally weren’t wanting for food, he’d… he’d, throw their bread at them, or something. Make them drink the salty ocean water. Anything to make sure they knew just how fucking stupid they were, brining an infant onto a warship, and then leaving it with him with no warning! How were they even caring for it? Feeding it? Didn’t babies need fresh air and sunlight, wasn’t that something that Penelope had said once as she sat outside with little Telemachus–

Ah. Of course.

Eurylochus looked down at the child in his arms, slowing to a stop by a lantern.

With his darker hair and little wrinkled nose, the infant could almost be mistaken for Odysseus’s son. He wasn’t, of course, Odysseus would never cheat on Penelope, but the child certainly resembled Telemachus, as he had been when they’d left years ago for this horrid war.

Of course Odysseus had gotten attached. Of course Polites had helped him hide.

Bleeding hearts, the both of them. Eurylochus sighed, long and weary.

Of course he was going to help them take care of the kid.

Hide it? No, that wouldn’t be healthy, for his friends or the child. Growing up on a boat probably wouldn’t be incredibly healthy for the kid anyways, but keeping it cooped up for however long it took to get back home would be even less so. Ugh. This was all getting so complicated, and Eurylochus was exhausted.

Couldn’t they have wait until morning to hand off the kid they’d picked up gods-knew-where?

In that moment, the child woke up.

“No, no –” Eurylochus shushed as it started to scream bloody murder. “Shhh, sshhhhhh, you’re fine, you’re fine –”

The infant continued to disagree. Loudly.

“Shhhhh,” he tried again, to no avail. Eurylochus started walking again – hopefully the motion would help soothe the screaming banshee. “Come on now, there’s no need for that, you’re fine – oh why did they decide to leave me with this thing?”

“Eurylochus?” A new voice called. Of. Course. someone had heard the child, wailing it’s head off. He couldn’t be that lucky. “What’s that noise, sir, is everything alright?”

He shook his head with another hearty sigh as the youngest man in the crew came stumbling to a stop by his side. “Everything’s fine, Ajax. Your captain is simply an idiot, and decided to leave me to deal with it while he’s gone.”

Ajax, incredibly unused to hearing anyone badmouth his captain and king, stared at Eurylochus with wide, horrified eyes. The moment was broken as the infant wailed again, and Ajax, coming to terms with Eurylochus’s apparent bout of mutiny, glanced down.

“…sir – is, is that a child?”

“Why yes, yes it is,” Eurylochus deadpanned. “Whatever gave it away?”

“The screaming, for one,” Ajax leaned towards him, trying to get a better look at the infant. Eurylochus didn’t bother trying to stop him, and just kept walking. “Where did it come from?”

“Not a clue.”

“How can you not know?”

“Well it’s not like it’s mine,” Eurylochus shot the man beside him an incredulous look, and Ajax threw his hands up in surrender. “The Captain just handed him off to me before he left.”

The child wailed again, long and drawn out, and Eurylochus rocked it awkwardly. Was it hungry? Probably, Telemachus had certainly been in constant need of milk. Which, on a ship, there was none of. How had it survived this long?

“Uh, sir?”

“Yes, Ajax.”

“Do, uh, do you need some help, there?”

Oh thank the gods–

Eurylochus whirled towards the younger man, practically shoving the infant at him. “Please, I don’t know why it won’t stop crying–”

Ajax laughed, a little awkwardly, but graciously accepted the screaming bundle. Eurylochus continued to lead the way back to Odysseus’s cabin; hopefully they’d be able to find whatever his friends had been feeding the little hellion with, or something of the likes.

“Err, are we allowed in here?” Ajax hesitated in the doorway. The child had started to run out of energy again it seemed, but it was definitely still complaining.

“He dumped a child on me with no explanation,” Eurylochus huffed grumpily. “He can deal with it.”

Slowly, Ajax crept inside. The child, held much more securely in the young man’s arms than in Eurylochus’s own, finally quieted, apparently much happier simply being back in the room. Maybe it had been cold?

“Sir,” Ajax handed the infant back to Eurylochus, who had no choice but to accept. “If I may, I’d suggest you talk to the Captain about brining the kid out during the day, some. I think he’s afraid of the sky.”

“That I will do, Ajax, that I will do.” Holding the child in the crook of one arm, Eurylochus turned to scan the room. The kid still didn’t seem particularly happy, glaring up at him and kicking its weak little feet, but at least it’d stopped screaming. “Thank you for your help.”

“Not a problem, sir!” Eurylochus could hear the smile in the young man’s voice. “Should I tell the crew that there’s nothing to worry about?”

Well, he hadn’t been planning to keep the kid a secret, anyways.

“That would be a good idea, please. I’m going to see if I can find something the kid can eat – let me know when Polites and the Captain return.”

“Yes sir,” Ajax agreed, and hurried back out of the room. Eurylochus directed his attention to a chest, one tucked away in the corner of the room. He wished there were a crib, somewhere, so he could put the child down, but settled for holding it in one arm as he used to other to rummage through Odysseus’s things.

The child kicked him again, disapproving. It didn’t seem to like him very much.

Well. Eurylochus glanced down at the child, and the child glared back up at him. It would just have to deal with him, and him it. Just until sunrise.

Just until sunrise.

_________________________________

Whistling Thorn is part of an au @hahahaghosty and I are working on! TECHNICALLY it’s not the first installment, but it IS near the beginning lol, so special thanks to them for helping out w this fic!

also also, I know that lil Ajax is not actually a teenager. However, I have beaten cannon to a pulp with a sledgehammer, stuck the goop into the blender to smoosh it up even more, and then used it as fertilizer for my dying plants. Cannon doesn’t exist anymore. let it go.

Keep an eye out for more Flower AU :D

[hanafubukki]

It's actually what is happening. I have the two Oc's but I have more Au's than the main story 😂 Actually my Yuu - Yuki - don't come from another world. She's from Twisted Wonderland, but the part of Twisted wonderland she came from is so isolated and she was so preserved from the "outside world" she herself thinks she's in some parallele world. The place was also covered for a long time by a powerful magic to seal the people inside -see it at the typical Island of the North. It's snowing everytime. Full of monster. And was used to lock the losers of a bloody succession war. The Dark Mirror speech about "Not belonging anywhere" didn't help.

There are twin but do not know there are until after the Malleus overblot events.

There had actually pretty fun genetics. Grandma was a dragon fae - beautiful pure white dragon - and grandpa was a human (loved by spirits- but a simple human). The parents were two half-fairies. So the twins had some funny genetics return. Astyanax - or Aster as a nickname- was born from a egg like Malleus. While Yuki (not her real name, the one Aster gave her) was born like any other human. Their family found it funny. Their birth happenned roughtly 500 years before NRC events.

The things is Yuki had a lot of magic power at birth -so much her human body could not handle it. So grandma took a decision: destroying the magic core of the baby. Like she is a full human, she can live without magic and it will not harm her health or lifespan like it would for a fae. Grandma is also at the end of her lifespan -with only some decades at best due to excessive use of magic during the war. Her unique magic is also special: she can see the future. Due to that Yuki was sent in the future to be able to grow there -and to love Aster who where going to be all alone due to his LONG lifespan and the short one of the rest of his family. Plus there is a way for Yuki to become immortal. But for that she needs to be in the future and go at NRC (Grandma best plotter of the millenium).

That how Aster found baby Yuki after feeling a powerful magic in the snow 500 years later -not knowing anything about his lineage or the origin of the baby because the others noble fae choose to hide the whole marrying a human (some were never 100% okay with the thing. Other thought it was a bit though to say "Everyone's dead and you are alone because they were all human. Suck to have a long lifespan"). Well he choose to raise the baby because he felt she was blessed by some magic similiar to his. He gave her the name Yuki because she was found in the snow. First time the guy speak since his parents death (he don't even remember them because he was so young). He was considered mute but started "speaking" with the baby. Sometime it feels like they are communicating by thoughts (Twin's telepathy-).

Yuki grew up mostly happy. Aster became fond of the child. They often go on a ride in the island sky. But when she was 16, she overheard a conversation between the noble fae (the soul sisters of the Senate: annoying, cause of most of the emotional damage, need to be thrown away). They talked about how Yuki isn't a good thing for Aster. Mostly because she will die in less than a 100 years and because Aster think more and more about contacting the "outside world" to discover more about her origin, to learn of the change there in 500 years -he knows some things, like Malleus birth because he received an invitation, but didn't go (The barrier was lifted, but nobody there really crave contact with the people who locked them for hundred of years. They are fine by themself. So it's still a no contact policy). So Yuki ended up wishing to be far away due to the emotional distress. And the carriage kidnap- took her.

And I will stop here because I let myself go free and this backstory is becoming really long TwT But yes, there is a lot of Au. One where "Yuki" was sent to the future to hatch Eggster because no one loving him dearly would live long enough to make it happen after Grandma death. Another where everyone is not dead but scealed and can be saved. Lot of Au's.

Also, Yuki's true name is Athanasia (yes, just like the Manhwa-). Found it fun to give a name related to immortality to the human of the family. Grandma was the one the name the twins.

I think I also talked in a ask long ago about a song I remembered from a precure movie because I needed a lullaby for my Oc to sing to Grim. And the 1st part of song ended up feeling like a prophetic one for book 7. Yuki is the Oc. And the song is in her head since day 1. It's actually prophet Grandma who used to sing it to her to help her during Malleus overblot.

- 🦋 Anon

Hello 🦋 Anonie

We love having a thousand AUs in this household 😂🥰💕

We love found family and time travel and family doing sacrifices in this household 😭😭😭

What I'm hearing is that the twins and Malleus need to just....destroy the nobility/senate.

I'm guessing Aster eventually came to NRC? because how else would they fall under Mal's spell and learn the truth?

Therapy! therapy for you all!

Yes! I still have that ask, its a precure song.

lullabies and prophetic songs my beloved. straight to the heart 😭💕

[tododeku-or-bust]

Not sure if you ever posted about this before, but would you mind sharing how you came up with the character Calix?

Oh I love that you asked this! It made my kind of rough day a little better. Im sure I have, but I change my ideas daily so I'll just go over it again.

Fun fact, I originally toyed with the idea of Odysseus' sons instead. Maybe a little brother of Telemachus. But I stopped for two reasons: 1) that pairing would be insufferable and I didnt like it and 2) I happened to read Circe at the time I was originally coming up with Phi, and well....imma leave that Alabama situation they got going on over there alone 🤣

Anyway, Calix was created because I wanted to introduce the presence of Hector in my Hades AU, and all of the powerful symbolism that came with. Now, Hector and Andromache already have a son- Astyanax. The problem, is that they're all dead. They're a fixed entity. Astyanax will never grow- he'll be her baby forever. So it couldn't be him, because one of my rules for these OCs is that they are technically a flaw in the system- living, breathing, but with the benefits of immortality as denizens of Hades and special guests of Persephone- so long as they stay in the underworld!

Anywho, Andromache wanted the opportunity to raise a child with her beloved husband, in the paradise that they earned. And she wanted to do it unbothered. Aphrodite, whom Persephone approached about the idea of these semi-demigod children to begin with, also wanted this child to exist (she's like, ten steps ahead with the idea of this forbidden romance, be damned all the parties involved lmao no lessons learned from the War).

So! Calix was the secret baby from everyone else (all the Chthonic gods knew except Zag bc they knew he'd run his mouth)! And because Andromache yearned for privacy, for safety, she overcompensated in keeping him tucked away from everything- that's why he's so ready to run away, to see new things. She couldn't contain him forever.

I liked the idea of a child that, like Philia, forces Hector and Andromache to confront their pasts. Calix is a good kid, he is his parent's child, but there are many times when he shows flashes of Paris- especially with sharing his power- and that terrifies them. They raise him with a purposeful determination to BE good, bc they know that unchecked he could be a real problem. It mirrors Achilles and Patroclus' fears with Philia and her abilities.

I wanted to show that these two families, if they weren't enemies, have a lot in common. That if it wasn't on sight, they would probably get along. Because their children, at least until they get old enough to learn the truth, get along! Philia and Calix are the opportunity, that vision for peace for their descendants, that both families want. They just.... Didn't think it would be with THAT family lmao 🤣

In summary, it served drama, symbolism, and I just also enjoy the idea of a trio.

[nausikaaa]

More Than Six Sentence Sunday

hello again! i have some of my original wip to share again this week. thanks for tagging me @letraspal last week and @forabeatofadrum today!

here's some Astyanax POV, more than six sentences today because i didn't want to cut any of this

"Where are you off to in such a hurry?" A voice behind me startles me, and I turn, hand already on my weapon, to find Odysseus leaning against a wall, peeling an orange and looking at me with an expression of mild amusement.

I scramble for a moment, then realise I actually have little to hide.

"I'm taking my sister some food. She isn't feeling well." Only one word of that is a lie, I suppose.

"Hm." He responds, picking at the orange with apparent disinterest. "You know, you're a pretty good liar."

"I'm not-"

"I should know." He interrupts, then looks up and smiles. Again, I'm reminded of a fox. "The only problem is, I'm better."

not too much background feels necessary here, basically: Astyanax is supposed to be dead, Odysseus was supposed to kill him as a baby, they both know he didn't do what he was supposed to do, and now 18 years later Odysseus has to deal with the consequences of not doing his job.

and on that note, here's this snippet's relevant song from my Astyanax playlist

and i tag @ileadacharmedlife @martsonmars @imagineacoolusername @confused-bi-queer @ic3-que3n @forabeatofadrum @tea-brigade @bazzybelle @aroace-genderfluid-sheep @theearlgreymage @aristocratic-otter @facewithoutheart @otherpeoplesheartachept-2 @whogaveyoupermission @shemakesmeforget and @larkral

[seeminglyseph]

I think the Odysseus in my head has grey eyes that reflect the predominant colours of their environment, so they often have a blue hint due to being at sea and having that wide open sky around him. This is a trait he shares with Telemachus, who does grow up to resemble his father a lot in physical appearance.

This will contrast Astyanax, who I think will have amber brown eyes that I think should haunt Odysseus' dreams and memories of Telemachus. Each time he tries to imagine an adult Telemachus, it morphs into Astalyanax, and the first clue should be that the eyes are the wrong colour. Because Odysseus doesn't know what either boy would look like as an adolescent or adult, and his memory fuzzy... and his mind keeps mixing Astyanax and Telemachus together and haunting him with the specter of a dead boy over the memories of his son.

I do not currently have the like. Fortitude to create the actual like... Project? that like. All Of This creates but like. It sure is... a concept that has had me... desperately pondering a design for Hector, Astyanax (baby and adolescent), Odysseus, Telemachus (baby and adolescent), and then maybe even Achilles and Neoptolemus because fathers, sons and cycles of violence. Yes, that is multiple Iliad characters who do not need to be here guess whose reading the other epic poem and being emotional it's me. I have complex feelings about Hector and Achilles, and I'm not sorry about it. I think they also inform a lot of how Odysseus acts in the Odyssey because... uh. I don't know if anyone can live through the Iliad and not have feelings about being in the Iliad?

My ideas far exceed my physical capabilities... one day, I will be able to sit upright, maybe...

[nonbinarylocalcryptid]

Before he and Odysseus make up, Astyanax must undergo some character development, so here it is

Astyanax closed his eyes to sleep at Calypso's island, far from the greek man and the goddess, and when he opened again, he found himself at an unknown place.

It was clearly divine intervention, even if he didn't know which god was playing with him, caution was more than necessary. His weapon was next to him in the dry soil and dust that covered everything that his eyes could see.

Ruins were everywhere, but that didn't stopped him from imagining what was there before. In the wholes of the ruin his mind was able to rebuild an image of a past era of prosperity. Giant destroyed walls talked about years of siege and the doors, crooked and rotten in their place, of what was once the city, spoke about days of glory long gone.

Then there it was, a pile of a structure which shape can't be recalled, but the dirt and the moss were no obstacle for Astyanax's mind.

"This is Troy." He said, to the ghosts of those who died there.

"This is where Troy were once", a thundering voice corrected him, condescending. "I want to show you something, come."

Disobedience and a snarky reply crossed briefly by Astyanax's mind, but in the last second he kept those to himself, opting for following the Thunder Bringer. Broken stairs and rooms which once had colour and life greeted him as he ascended, testimonies of a time that was no longer his.

"Why did you bring me here?" He asked.

"I have a mission for you."

"I'm not interested in being your champion, Zeus."

Then the thunder God used the dusty cloud of his sandals to take form and looked him in the eye. His expression was of amusement.

"No one is talking of champions here, boy. I have a mission for you, that's all."

"Still not interested."

"But you are so filled with rage! Wouldn't you like a chance to unwind?"

"I'll pass, thanks for the offer."

A long, patronizing laugh came from Zeus.

"First, take a look at what I have to show, and then decide."

The room, looted and ruined, changed to depict a scene from the past. Sounds of slaughter came from the balcony, and there, in the corner, there was a cradle.

An echo of man entered the room, and something tightened in Astyanax's chest when he recognized the man as none other than Odysseus, a young version of him, old, yes, but younger, and maybe tired, but Astyanax could still see some hope in his eyes.

The scene developed in front of him as Odysseus had told him, which only reassure him that the man had been telling him the truth that dreadful night in the beach.

Astyanax could only watch, as a young Odysseus disobeyed Zeus, faked a baby Astyanax's death, and took the child version of him to safety.

""Come on, little ghost," the young Odysseus mumbled softly, even covered in blood, "where are the clothes for your diapers stored? We must go."

Astyanax blinked away some tears while the illusion faded away.

"I would like you to kill him." Said the king of gods. "That's my mission for you."

"Why."

"As you have seen, he disobeyed me."

"Well, tough, I said no."

"This is your chance to avenge your home, your father! Troy's legacy lives runs through your veins..."

"Is this what the Trojan Legacy is??!?!?" Astyanax exclaimed with fury. "A meaningless death after another! Sonless fathers killing fatherless sons!! Bloodshed that never dries! Ruthlessness, and the greediness of the gods turning everything they touch into ruins."

"Careful, boy, shut your mouth before is too late."

"Or what? You will kill me? You have wanted me death since I was a baby! And now you want me to kill the only man I have called father and for what? Because you are bored??"

"Hector, crown prince of Troy, was your father..."

"And where is he? WHERE IS HE? HE'S DEAD BECAUSE OF YOU AND EVERY SINGLE GOD WHO LIVES IN THAT FREAKING MOUNTAIN OF YOURS."

Astyanax coughed after yelling so much, he even turned red, so lost in his self righteous fury that he forgot to breath for a second.

"Are you done?"

"Not even close." Astyanax muttered with a dangerous edge in his voice.

"You will kill Odysseus of Ithaca because, I, Zeus, God of Thunder, has told you so."

"Eat me, asshole."

Then Astyanax turned around and started his journey downstairs, to see if the greek army left something valuable behind. Something useful. At least he hoped not everything was at the bottom of the sea with the Ithacan fleet.

Zeus didn't stop pestering him, the dusty cloud following Astyanax.

"Where are you going? I did not finish saying my piece!"

"But I did, now fuck off, I need to get back to Calypso's."

"To kill Odysseus, I assume."

"Your assumption is wrong." The characteristic hint of sass was back in the boy's voice, as he took a long wooden stick from the ground, maybe it could be useful...

"I am Zeus, God of Thunder..."

"And I'm Scamandrius of Troy, son of Hector and Andramoche, Ghost of Troy, the Infant from that night, I'm the 601st man, I'm the One you wasn't expecting...and last but not least, I'm Astyanax the cynic, son of Odysseus...and I'm going to let him go and that's final."

"Why? It's an order, kill him!"

"No. He is not my enemy. You are."

"Are you threatening me, boy?"

"No, I'm stating facts. He's not my enemy and even if I kill him, that won't bring Troy back."

"Merciness is not a valuable skill."

"And that's the difference between men and gods. The need for mercy." Luckily for Astyanax, the curtains were still in place, so he took them down.

"That's naïve."

"Is it? It's because of an act of mercy that I am alive. Mercy is a weakness, yes, but is a strength too. Civilizations raise and fall because of it"

"He is still a threat."

"To whom? He tried to kill me because you ordered it, he is a mere puppet in your scheme. There's nothing personal in that. He's dangerous to you, and you want to toy with him by making me kill him. My answer is still no, by the way."

"And you are letting him go, out of mercy."

"And out of love." Astyanax looked at him with something that was tinted with sadness. "You know, I feel sorry for you, so many sons and daughters and none of them has called you dad...and it shows."

"You know nothing about me, mortal."

"Neither do you about me, puny god. As I was saying, I choose to let him go, because I'm also Astyanax the merciful, but I'm no idiot. He is a nobody, but you, in the other hand, have much to explain. What would you tell the other gods? Would you return home and tell them that you challenged a child? That you were so scared that you just couldn't stand the thought of me being alive? Go, go and tell them who defeated you, tell them about me, tell them that a boy with no beard beat you in your game. Tell them that your ego blinded you and a boy outsmarted you."

"Do you think is wise to talk like that to a god?"

"No, but is it fair to me to chase me like this? I was a baby, not a threat, back in the Trojan war, yet you wanted me dead. Troy was a beautiful place, without the gods' interferance, yet today is all dust and ashes. And now, you just ordered my death, again, because that's what all the 'kill Odysseus' nonsense is, you just want him to kill me. Is this what you want your legacy to be? A capricius whimsical god with no sense of morality! I just want to live in peace, is that too much to ask? Of course you choose not to speak. If your choice is to tell the other gods...Tell them where to find me. Tell them I'll be in Ithaca, and so will my father."

[greekmythgal]

I know you probably arn't looking for an actual answer, but I have one I think makes a lot of sense ^_^ (disclaimer I am not a scholar so I may be way off but this is my interpretation of things )

Its a pretty simple answer, but sometimes those are the best. The answer is, that they were soldiers at war. (long explanation under the cut)

From what I can remember of the Iliad, the only people who were killed were actual soldiers. (Obviously there are other cruelties of war (War Brides anyone?), and the book only covers the last year of the war so who knows, but I'm working off of what we have) So it's less the actual killing that is bugging him, its the idea of killing someone who has no real way to defend themselves in return. Even when people in the Iliad killed each other, there were systems in place to make sure that the deaths were as honorable as possible. They actually had a couple times where they paused the war, in order to gather the dead and preform funeral rights and stuff. It was violence, sure, but not senselessly. (Except maybe when Achilles dragged Hectors corpse around the walls of Troy, but even then, he agrees to give the body the proper rights in the end) So Odysseus is suddenly confronted with literal Gods telling him to kill an helpless baby. The lyrics "A foe who won't run, unlike anyone you have faced before" back this idea up. This isn't a fight between two adult soldiers, this is an execution of an infant. The way he has been justifying to himself the act of killing people for years is to be able to go back to his wife and son, and to protect them, even if it means being away from them. That's ultimately the same goal that convinces him to kill Astyanax, the idea that it will protect those he loves, as well as get him home to them sooner. However this time it's not as easy to excuse the guilt, because that wasn't a fierce battle, it was killing a baby. In full speed ahead, Eurylocus is still fully in the mindset of a warrior. What's the best way to ensure the safety of us and our men and a swift return? While Polites has already shifted his own thoughts to the idea of the war being over and that they are home free, and tries to convince Odysseus of the same thing.(Open arms) Its not a bad mindset to have, BUT the fact is, they arn't safe at home yet. Thats why the end of Act I is Athena coming down to remind him of. She is the goddess of wisdom, and war, and she is coming to remind Odysseus "hey, you aint out of the woods yet, remember to be a WARRIOR of the MIND" (aka wise up and do your job as general :P)

Hmm this kinda turned into a summary of the first saga, whoops. But my point is, its not really that strange that he is having a moral crisis now that he has not only faced a personal moral crisis, but has started to switch out of the war mindset, and began to process things fully.

Been a while since I've listened to EPIC: the musical again and although I'm aware how the narrative of the adaptation is made like that for the purpose of entertainment and to get the message of cruelty and ruthlessness across, but the beginning of the musical having Odysseus be bothered with the cruelty of war, loosing his friends, and the morality of it all as if 10 years of the Illiad didn't happen is just kinda funny and takes me out of my immersion.

[tododeku-or-bust]

In any universe, were any of the parents wishing for a certain gender? I can’t imagine them any other way, honestly😭

For a hot second I had no clue what you were talking about 😅 nobody's asked bout my OCs and the parents for a minute! I'm so happy!

All of them were "we want a healthy child no matter what" parents, so it's not like they'd be devastated either way. But... There were definitely some preferences.

In the Hades AU, everyone was just so shocked that children were an option while dead that they weren't thinking about it at first. The only ones prepared for anything were Hector and Andromache, already having a son. Hector would have liked both tbh. A little boy since Astyanax will never grow and he wanted that experience, but a little girl so that Andromache would have daughter.

Achilles already had a son, not that he was talking about it at the time lmao 🤣 but he wasn't too concerned. More than anything he just wanted a child that would be more like Patroclus than him. 😅

In any universe, Orpheus wants a girl, but to be specific, he just wants a carbon copy of Eurydice 🤣 When he got Kairos, he threw all that out the window. He's just so happy to be a dad with his beloved muse and his beloved little boy. And tbh, Kairos acts a lot like Eurydice, so he got his wish! 🎆

Eurydice wanted a little boy. They love each other so much that they really just wanted a mini version of the other 🤣 she got her wish! But tbh, she's glad that Kairos is more level headed like her. Orpheus is enough of a beloved drama queen. Her and her chill baby 💕

In every universe, Patroclus secretly wants a little girl. In the Hades AU, he knows how their society treats women, how it treated his own mother, and he wanted to do better. He wanted to raise a girl that felt she could do ANYTHING and have their support. Still, Philia is Papa's Princess, and that's in EVERY universe. 😤

I can't imagine them in any other way either 🥰

[tododeku-or-bust]

In Hades, does Hector/Andromache or even Achilles retain their previous Prince/Princess titles, and if they are stilled referred to with them carrying on?

We see that Hector and his family were promised a more luxurious life in their death, so would a title carry to Calix as well?

(I am very interested in him for some reason😭)

Yes!

The thing about it, is that once everyone's dead it kind of doesn't matter what their titles are, so whether or not anyone uses them or respects them is personal.

Achilles personally does not use it, considering how much trouble his pride in his title caused him. However, when he raises Philia he wants her to know that the blood of two Princes (even though one was exiled) runs in her veins- she is, for all intents and purposes, a Princess.

Hector and his family are promised that cherished afterlife, yes, as their kingdom and its legacy meant a whole lot to them and their peace. In Perspective, you can hear how the 'servants' address Calix- he is referred to as the "Second Prince" (Astyanax, though a forever baby, reserves the right to remain the Crown).

I'm excited that you're interested in him! If there's an answer i can offer up you about him to this point, i will do so!