#I know it’s my thing where I viscerally dislike ships that are based on two characters

[lesbiansanemi]

*through gritted teeth* ppl can ship whatever they want and it’s fine it doesn’t affect you ppl can ship whatever they want and it’s fine it doesn’t affect you ppl can ship whatever they want and it’s fine it doesn’t affect you people can—

[dangermousie]

So, my long and random thoughts of eps 3-4 of My Country

Right before 5 airs. I am so prompt :P

One of the things I find interesting about Seon Ho is that while he has fully embraced his inner Darth Vader, he still has submerged glimpses of conscience - I think it’s that which pushes him to openly acknowledge his sins AND take on extra both with HJ and Hwi - he may have shipped Hwi to the army but he is not the one who bribed the examiner. But he admits to both, as a sort of “I want to be hated/I should be ever badder than I am” sort of defiance, even though you see it hurts him too. I think also, despite the mess his headspace is in, he knows his own inadequacies clearly, he is just either resigned to them or wants to believe they can be an advantage.

And that leads me to his interesting interaction with HJ - where he tells her he loves her and acknowledges she loves Hwi without pushing further (at least so far.) On one hand, he is actually surprisingly decent. On the other, that furthers my theory that he only likes HJ for two things (a) relic of Hwi, who he cannot have because it’s a sageuk kdrama and not a BL Thai lakorn and (b) out of everyone, HJ has the clearest, most uncompromising character and a sense of justice, even more so than Hwi (who has more heart than any other character, but for whom life did not give a luxury of being so utterly unbending.) There is absolutely no give in her. SH, floundering in his emotional and moral morass, is drawn to that clear-eyed certainty.

To switch gears, I love how battle is portrayed. One on one fights may be fluid and gorgeous but war overall is portrayed as hell and butchery, like one of  Hieronymus Bosch paintings. There is no grace or honor, just death and shell shock - Hwi, who was so good at practice fights, is stunned into PTSD when his first battle hits and you can feel his revulsion viscerally. He gets over it eventually and becomes a superb killing machine in any environment, and while on one hand it’s awesome to see him become so competent at survival, it’s also heartbreaking. I think something breaks in him - the small bit of peace that was left after Seon Ho’s betrayal. And yet, he manages to maintain his soul even in war, in a system designed to drag it out of him - he spares that one enemy soldier, he demands medicine for that one wounded soldier in the face of the awful commander, when he has a choice to kill the man threatening him or another soldier, he chooses another and gets wounded because of that. There is digging graves even when wounded because his men should not be left for animals, when the others are looting - his humanity goes hand in hand with his unshakable honor. There is a steely core in him, sure, but also an innate, burning, active sense of fighting against injustices of the world he is in. Unlike his former friend, he never accepts “well, this sucks, but this is how it is, so I will just use it to best advantage.” He has an innate selflessness that SH lacks. Even before SH went over to the dark side, he would care for his small in-group but general humanity - not really. SH is capable of great sacrifice (he took that almost fatal wound for Hwi, after all; he helped dig the grave for Hwi’s father as a kid even when his own father refused) but for a stranger - nope.

SH and Hwi’s worldviews are completely different at their base. Compare Hwi trying to save and protect everyone, refusing to treat others as pawns and SH repeatedly sacrificing people for the supposed greater good - that one man with dysentery, the whole advance party. And the problem with that is that greater good is supposed to be “to help people” - but you are killing those same people to supposedly help them. When is the balance too much. SH sees most people as disposable and that is not true for Hwi. Hwi seems to live by the Jewish precept “he who saves one life, saves the world entire.” And it does pay off for Hwi, not that he does it for that reason - people follow SH for profit or because they have to. People follow Hwi because they love and trust him - watch how the advanced unit follows his orders and not their official commander’s. And it’s his natural air of command but also because they know he cares, he will put himself on the line for them.

And his humanity, his very deep humanity, does not make him weak - he fights a battle with an arrow literally sticking out of him, he barely grunts when undergoing his wound being stitched without anesthesia. When he goes feral, with the scum commander who tries to burn HJ’s ribbon, he is terrifying - he could be a monster easily, but he won’t. The one time we see him cry is over HJ’s ribbon - his last tie to peace and happiness and the little bit of his own hopes; doubly precious as a reminder in his hell. He never cries through battles and wounds and fire but he does here. (It makes me think of his father, who was a deadly swordsman but had his kids’ names inside his armor - both men managed to keep their humanity even in war.)

I wonder if it’s that which draws SH to Hwi - I mean, even leaving aside the decidedly slashy undertones (SH’s confession that Hwi was the one thing he couldn’t bear to lose is pretty much a love confession; then being SH he lies Hwi’s sister is dead in his “I love to push people away because I want to feel nothing and to be hated; though now that I got what I want, I am devastated” way), I think he is drawn to the generosity of soul that he lacks. And Hwi - Hwi is amazing. This is a man who sent him to hell to protect his own skin. And yet Hwi keens over him, literally begs the doctor to save him, sits with him for two days straight without moving, grins like the sun when SH wakes and even after the devastating conversation, tells him he could forgive the betrayal (but not his sister’s death.) Regardless of whether one reads the relationship as romantic or platonic, it takes a special kind of person to overlook that sort of giant betrayal. In a way, his never-ending compassion and capacity to be surprised by evil (like SH’s father) even after all he went through, is a weakness. But it’s one he can’t give up. And why he ends up working for the devil to save his sister while refusing to tell her who she is because she is happier that way - his capacity for sacrifice is something else.

To talk about other characters, I found Yi Seung Gye repulsive. He, like Seun Ho, does not see people as people, and it’s worse because while he mouths pious platitudes, he prepares to kill his own soldiers, men who fought for him - sending a death squad - to score political points, advised to do that by the moral wasteland that is Seun Ho, true, but ultimately the decision is on him (ps I did not realize right away that advanced guard was basically like a penal battalion - you get sent there to die. I bet evil daddy was the one who made sure Hwi ended up there.) I think he is different from Bang Won (and Jang Hyuk is so feral and magnetic OMG. I am still impressed HJ was able to go toe to toe with BW) because while BW is ruthless, I get the sense he would risk himself also, something YSG is not willing to do.  I also get the sense that BW used to like Hwi’s dad so if that is going to be the ground for their bonding because obviously Hwi is not going to betray him but become his right hand. I also think the way BW dislikes SH’s dad and talked about Hwi’s dad to him indicates that SH’s dad was responsible for Hwi’s dad’s death.

Speaking of SH’s dad - I found it fascinating he was both OK with giving his kid up and genuinely glad to see him (as much as he is glad to see anyone.) I do wonder why SH, who gets how his dad is and plans to take him down, is defending him to the death in flashforward in ep 1.

[silverbastardgoldenfool]

Realm of the Elderlings Ask Meme Thing

Created by @hermitknut and brought back by @elderling-magic

Thanks @blackandwhitemotley for tagging me :) this is gonna be unnecessarily long because I’m a messy bitch with too many feelings and not enough brain cells

Favourite RotE Book: God it’s impossible to choose properly so let’s just go with the one that always gives me flashbacks when I see it on my bookshelf: Golden Fool

Why: I was already deeply obsessed at this point and had laughed, cried and panicked countless times throughout the series BUT Golden Fool stands out because of the Fitz/Fool confrontation which all but gave me a panic attack. Sure, I’ve been overly invested in book characters my whole life but the fact I was like physically fuckin sweating just because these guys were having a verbal fight, which had nothing to do with the actual plot, is fuckin wild my dude. Also despite my distress I was thrilled in a way because I never expected Robin to address the homoerotic tension in the actual text - and I was even more impressed that she makes the Fool the winner in this fight. You feel for him (ouch!!!!!!!!) but he gets the last word and the whole time you’re on his side and wishing Fitz would just keep his goddamn mouth shut (unless he’s gonna use it to kiss the Fool). She makes you empathise with the Fool without compromising his dignity, without making him a pathetic pining gay stereotype. He is hurt, he is human, but Fitz is the fool in this exchange (forgive the unintentional pun). It’s crazy how this one scene defines this whole huge book for me but it overwhelmingly does. Man it fucked me up.

Top Three Favourite Characters: I’m excluding Fitz, the Fool and Nighteyes cos that’s just a given honestly and there are too many incredible characters to choose from. Also I’m going to choose three characters I think are exceptional on a technical level since that’s the easiest way for me to pick a few out.

1. Burrich - Forever fascinating to me because I disagree with him probably more often than not AND YET I love him so much. It’s seriously like I have the same relationship with him that Fitz does - and/or the same relationship many of us have with father figures. That weird thing where you can fundamentally disagree on some pretty important stuff, and he makes a lot of mistakes and probably irrevocably fucked you up in a lot of ways but you can’t help but love him because you know he’s not doing anything from a place of malice or pettiness or selfishness. He simply knows what he believes and is righteous to a fault. He’s always doing his best - whatever that looks like to him. There are so many things he says or does that make me amazed that I don’t hate him. I think in another series he is the kind of character I would hate. The fact that Robin makes me love him - and conflicted about that love - is a marvel.

2. Malta - I won’t harp on about this too much because we all know the deal. Malta’s early POVs were a tween nightmare. I had to skim them because they were so viscerally irritating. I guess it’s a huge testament to the writing that it really did feel like you were stuck in a tween girl’s head; the problem is that is the worst hell imaginable. It’s an even greater testament to the writing that, through some of the most masterful character development I have ever witnessed, you actually end up loving this girl.

3. Kennit - He’s such a monster that I hate actually saying he’s one of my favourite characters but it’s true. Especially from a writing perspective; it’s fucking witchcraft how Robin has you judging everyone around Kennit for falling for his charms even while you are in some way charmed by him. He’s intelligent, charismatic, enigmatic. You know he’s not a good person yet you enjoy spending time with him, you’re kind of rooting for him just because he’s interesting and you want to see what he’s going to do next. You even know - the narration straight up tells you - that most of his successes are down to pure dumb luck yet we still kind of buy into this persona of his. Absolutely brilliant writing. Not to mention his backstory, which is so tragic and compelling, and manages to explain his actions without excusing them. Without a doubt one of my top five favourite villains of all time.

Top Three Least Favourite Characters: Okay so again going for the writing angle; characters I just felt weren’t handled all that well on a technical level. Keep in mind that this is suuuuuper subjective. Also I can only think of two.

1. Molly - I’ve seen a lot of people assume that people who dislike her feel that way because she “gets in the way” of Fitz/Fool but that’s not true for me. I’ll try and keep this shortish because I have way too many feelings about this topic lol. Having read the whole series I wouldn’t change anything, but for a long time I really felt like the story would have been better if she wasn’t in it, or especially if she had not come back after Assassin’s Quest. Maybe that’s harsh, but I honestly just generally dislike the whole “first love, last love” trope (and in my personal experience have found it v toxic). I never found her character particularly engaging, but by the end of Farseer I had made my peace with her role in Fitz’s story; the way I saw it, she represented the life Fitz wanted but could never have. Of course you could argue then that it makes sense for Fitz to get her back once he is allowed to have a window of normal life - and that would be true EXCEPT the whole reason I saw her as a symbol and not a real love interest was because their relationship was TERRIBLE. It was seriously toxic and literally based on lies. I really felt what would have been healthy for Fitz at the end of Tawny Man would have been to find peace in realising that Molly was his past, not his future, and that what they’d had was teenage lust and not the stuff of soulmates. I don’t like the implication that Fitz was right to idealise this tumultuous, dishonest, immature relationship he had as a teenager all these years. Honestly this is why I was FURIOUS when I finished Fool’s Fate lol, even though I knew this wasn’t the ultimate ending. Now that I know where Robin went with this and that Fitz wasn’t really fulfilled in his life with Molly I don’t mind it as much but I still don’t love it. There was never enough of an honest, genuine, selfless connection established between the two of them for it to feel like anything other than an unhealthy fixation that Fitz projected all his unattainable fantasies onto. He never seemed to see Molly as a fully realised person which made it hard for me to do so. Also seriously, if I had been pining after my high school fling for the last ten years everyone would agree that the best thing for me would be to move on, not get back together with them. I’m not saying Fitz didn’t deserve his little bracket of peaceful years, but it just didn’t have to be with Molly. Sometimes not getting what you thought you wanted is the happy ending - I guess it’s just really jarring in a series that’s generally so subversive to get a standard fantasy trope like this. I really truly was shocked when Fitz got his feelings back from the stone dragon and his realisation was not “Molly is kind of just a girl I used to know a long time ago and our paths have long since diverged” but “yes no actually that girl I haven’t talked to in over a decade is my soulmate” like, wig in the worst way. ALSO SHE WAS FUCKING HIS DAD ALL THAT TIME. SHE BORE HIS DAD CHILDREN. HIS DAD HAD TO DIE SO THEY COULD BE TOGETHER. BRUH. Seriously it did feel like Burrich was sacrificed solely so these two little shits could get back together, and again, that was so infuriating and so not like these books. This and Burrich not being canonically in love w Chivalry are the only two points I actually get riled up about from a writing/critical perspective lol, every other flaw and quirk in this series I will absolutely pardon but for some reason these just get to me dude.

2. Starling - Promise this one is simpler lol. I always found Starling quite irritating “as a person” but didn’t mind her as a character. What I didn’t love was the way her lifestyle (promiscuity, independence, nomadic etc.) was kind of justified when it didn’t need to be, with the typical explanation that she’s only like this because she can’t have kids. It just felt really unnecessary, and it was even worse when she did get pregnant and basically just became a completely different person. But I’m generally touchy when it comes to female characters and fertility/pregnancy storylines as I just feel like they’re rarely done well. And I just really don’t like it when infertility is implied as a justification for character traits (usually traditionally male traits) that don’t need justifying.

Favourite Ship (of the floating kind): Paragon of course, we love a problematic fave.

Top Three Favourite Ships (of the people kind): Fitz/Fool, Sedric/Carson, Althea/Brashen (the only heteros whomst deserve rights)

Would you rather be Witted or Skilled: Honestly wouldn’t want either but if I had to choose I guess the Wit? I’d much rather be inside an animal’s head than another human’s no thanks bb

If you were Witted, what animal would you bond with?: If I’m still living in my current situation in this hypothetical then I guess a house cat. If I really get to go wild then I am absolutely bonding with a big cat, like a tiger or a panther IMAGINE THE SNUGGLES.

Would you rather live in the Outislands, the Mountain Kingdom, the Six Duchies, Bingtown, the Rain Wilds, Kelsingra, Jamaillia, the Pirate Isles, or Fool’s Homeland?: Dude I am so bad at visualising locations so idk lol, I guess queer utopia Kelsingra although obviously it has its drawbacks.

How were you introduced to the books? My mum had been telling me for years that if I liked A Song of Ice and Fire I would like Realm of the Elderlings. I was putting it off because there are so many books and I also knew how much she loved them so I was worried I wouldn’t like them and she’d be let down. But I eventually got so close to rereading ASOIAF (which I swore I wouldn’t do til Winds of Winter is released) that I decided to finally give RotE a go in its stead.

Share a quote you love: I don’t have a book on me rn but that part in Fool’s Errand when Fitz is talking about how the Fool has wandered into the place he’s been living for years and immediately, effortlessly made it a home is TENDERNESS BEYOND COMPARE ARE YOU KIDDING.

Tagging: if you see this and haven’t done it yet, consider yourself tagged!

Take the thing, copy and paste it into your own post, tag it “elderlings” and then tag as many people as you can that you know in the fandom.

[flukeoffate]

Governor Pryce Appreciation

(Contains spoilers for the Thrawn Novel)

There has been a few anti-Pryce posts on my dash this week and My thoughts on her spiraled out of control. I just wanted to throw my two cents in without making a mess of those posts. This is in no way meant to attack other people’s opinions, just studying what I like and dislike and considering reasons for the various reactions she gets.

(Extremely long character examination essay that I may have spent the better part of three or four hours on under the cut.)

I like Pryce. And I admit, the more I thought about her story and personality while writing this, I have maybe even grown to love her.

Is she a likeable person? Well, by the time of Rebels: no. Definitely not. But how many villains are likeable within the time of their introductory story? Few, I think. What I believe makes a villain likeable is their backstory, and also how charismatic they are during their screentime.

I want to examine some famous Star Wars villains. IMO there are very few Star Wars villains that are interesting until you dig deeper into their characters.

Unpopular opinion time: Vader and Tarkin are stupidly boring characters in A New Hope. They show up, kill some people, then lose a battle. We don’t know about Vader being Anakin Skywalker. He just looks cool. And Tarkin-well, I frankly think his interest came more from Peter Cushing’s acting more than the character itself. It is no secret that I’m a huge Hux fan, but the thing that drew me to him initially was his screaming speech. Other than being the ‘Tarkin’ of TFA, (and I use this description begrudgingly for the comparison) Hux doesn’t do much more than Tarkin ever did. All three of these guys are boring cardboard villains until you delve into their histories. Vader=Anakin? Holy shit, tell me more! Tarkin is classy AF and came from Space Australia? Sign me the fuck up! Hux has an abusive father and the weight of the First Order’s future on his shoulders? Damn, that is something to examine!

Pryce has the same problem as the above three: when they are introduced, they are already fully formed villains. You don’t see their developement. It’s done. Their story is pretty much over. No development is expected within their initial debut, their sob stories are not the focus of the plot. Like the aforementioned three, Pryce is 2D boring until you read her backstory. Why is she singled out as terrible compared to the others?

Well, without playing the gender card, I want to say it’s because she doesn’t display the charisma of the others. She is cold, doesn’t look flashy, and lacks charisma in Rebels. She just has one thing going for her: a generally evil and contemptuous thirst for authority and control. It’s standard and boring. I will grant that.

Where I differ from a lot of readers: I think she is a fantastic villain after reading the Thrawn book.

The most popular villains are either someone who has characteristics that you either identify with, or you aspire to have. And the more I think about Pryce, the more I realize that her story is actually very relatable, at least to me.

Pryce starts out as a member of a prominent family with a profitable mining company. She has aspirations of getting away from her backwater planet. Fuck, a lot of people have that urge. It’s not an evil trait in itself. When it the mine is forcibly taken from her family (more specifically her parents are threatened) she vows revenge, and it catipults her into motion. She gets out of there and to Coruscant. Ok, pretty basic. A lot of people hold grudges, it’s not super villain stuff yet. It’s a pretty simple vendetta focused on destroying one obviously corrupt and dislikable government official. (Which, seeing as the entirety of Star Wars is based on fighting evil and corruption, I find it ironic that her initial motive has come under scrutiny.)

All things considered, Pryce is pretty crafty in her plans. Sure, she can be devious. She has the makings of a good spy if she were properly trained. But for the most part, her plan revolves around using the established system against her enemies. THAT is a direct parallel to Thrawn himself. He makes his plans work through ingenuity and finding loopholes. But where Thrawn lacks the ability to manipulate the politics of the system, she can. But more importantly, she grows: she isn’t perfect at navigating the political system to start. It takes a fall from grace to lead her there.

And here we come to the crux of her relatability: her biggest downfall was betrayal from those she trusted the most. People she worked with, people who claimed she was their friend, people who claimed the friendship was genuine even after their schemes had been revealed.

I have had ‘friends’ betray me. Let me tell you it is a mind-blowing and traumatic experience. My therapist actively made me recognize my ex-friend drama as a real traumatic event that should not be trivialized. 

And Pryce faces trauma. She was betrayed in the worst of ways, systematically and over a period of years. Pryce was physically, emotionally, and professionally assaulted. When she was drugged during ascension week and threatened? Holy shit, that is the kind of scenario associated with kidnapping and rape. And it was used as blackmail. You don’t shrug something like that off. I felt genuine disgust and fear for her in that scene. Then later, her ‘friends’ involve her in a plot that mixes her up with SAME PERSON who attacked her? Holy shit, wonderful way to reinforce that trauma. And then her friends bring her deeper into their plot by actually endangering her in order to manufacture more trust. And that same plot was made to FRAME Pryce in the event of a take down. She could have been imprisoned or worse, all because of her ‘friends’.

But you know what? Pryce overcame all of this. She fought any fear and pushed it down. She took control of the situation with grace and dignity. She knew what she wanted and how to get it. She manipulated her attackers, destroyed them with cleverly obtained evidence, and took them down with the law at her side. And she never forgives them.

I think that is something people don’t like. That she doesn’t forgive.

Frankly, she doesn’t owe her ‘friends’ a goddamn thing. They are as brutal and manipulative as Pryce becomes. They don’t get a free pass on this for being on the “right” side of things. They are horrible people. Good on Pryce for letting them rot. They fucking deserve it.

I often find myself wishing I could do the same to the people who hurt me. I’m glad she got the opportunity and took it. I would not have the same courage. Fuck all that nonsense about forgiveness being the brave thing to do. In my experience, forgiveness is a lip service phrase followed by a societal pressure to ‘be nice’. Fuck that. I want to be angry. I want them to suffer. But I don’t follow through—because revenge is seen as a negative trait, especially for a woman. There is a reason women resort to sneaky tactics for revenge: it is unbecoming to outwardly express our rage.

Pryce is never shown to have more than a few friends. All of them betrayed her trust.

I relate to that. Viscerally.

You know who has not betrayed her?

Her parents.

We don’t have the full scope of their relationship, but from the getgo we see that Pryce is ready to pounce on anyone threatening her parents. That is a constant through the book. And her parents obviously love her at least as much as any parent should be expected. They are concerned for her wellbeing, and are generally in touch with her. And by the end of the book, she isn’t the same person who vowed to ruin a corrupt official. She has taken up her mantle of anger and distrust. She discovers that she is ready, willing, and able to kill for her family and damn the casualties. She doesn’t care about other people. Other people never cared about her. Her life has proven to her one truth: trust no one. Beyond her parents, she has no love for anyone. The times she tried were a disaster.

There is a tragedy in that. I have experienced betrayal. But I have also had true friendship. We have no indication she ever had the good with the bad. I’m pretty sure that if I can pity Hux for having a shitty childhood, I can pity her for the events that left her so jaded.

So, yes. I like Pryce. I think she has damn good reasons for being the way she is. Do I condone her actions at Batonn? Hell no. Do I hate how she affects Thrawn? Yes. But Batonn is her Anakin to Darth Vader moment, the point where she truly goes to ‘the dark side’. I’m glad to have been given the opportunity to see it unfold. She can continue to be the frigid flat villain in Rebels, because now we know where she comes from. Rewatching Rebels shows her in a new light just as much as it changes how we see Thrawn. And we might see her comments now and think: you evil bitch! But damn, if that doesn’t make me like her more. Before the book, she was a generic Imperial baddie. Now I actually have an emotional response to back it up, and that is WAYYYYY more interesting.

I think the one big thing that prevents her from getting more love is that she doesn’t have the traits that fans typically like to explore in fanfic. She is closed off, and has no real big candidate for shipping purposes. And she doesn’t have any meaningful commonality with the heroes in Rebels beyond being the Governor of Lothal and therefore the enemy. She doesn’t have a specific vendetta driving her actions, she is just doing her job. By the time Rebels takes place, Pryce is not making impressive plans of destruction and she is done with any self reflection that might garner sympathy. But I don’t think she needs it. The book is enough.

With characters like Kallus, you could see than he had a sort of joy for the hunt in the first seasons. Then you learned more about his personality and he grew. Pryce doesn’t get the same treatment. Some people love Phasma for being an absolutely cold monster with no emotion. But Pryce isn’t cold or monsterous enough to have the same level of ‘wtf?’ that makes Phasma interesting (again, adding to the list of boring characters that are only great with their backstory considered...) Most of us can’t relate to the sheer heartlessness of Phasma and are compelled by it. Both Pryce and Phasma are self centered and power hungry individuals. But where Phasma has no conscience or hint or moral code, Pryce does have the capacity for such things, and that make readers see her selfishness as a negative trait to be hated instead of studied.

Maybe people find Pryce’s motivations too easy—a lot of us have friends who aren’t friends, and love our parents. Maybe her relatability is so common that we forget that these still qualify as three dimensional traits. Maybe we are afraid to admit that we have anything in common with her.

Pryce is a good character. I liked her parts in Thrawn. I was scared for her when she was drugged. I felt her loneliness when she couldn’t confide in her friends. I laughed my ass off at the unemployment office scene. I felt her shock and sorrow when she realized no one could be trusted. I envy her tenacity and bold resolve. I don’t have half her courage.

I like Pryce.