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petitommo · 3 years ago

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re: (not so) small rant about Theo, Liam and season six of Teen Wolf

(original post by @livingbythewords, you can find it linked here. i originally wanted to reply to the post, but replies are turned off. i’d reblog it, but it’s pretty long, so i wanted people to get to choose whether or not they wanted to read it...)

i saw this post in the liam tag when i woke up yesterday, and i kept sporadically thinking about it and discussing it with people (and in my own head), and i definitely have some thoughts about it, not gonna lie... still, as i said, absolutely feel free to ignore this if this ain’t your cup of tea at all, but if you wanna hear my thoughts about 1. livingforthewords’ post and 2. theo, liam and season six of teen wolf, feel free to look under the line break :)

(i’ll be posting some of the lines from the original post for context to what i’m saying, but if you do wanna read my answer, i recommend reading the original post as well! let me also preface this by saying this is in no way meant as hate towards the creator, sceo as a ship, or scott mccall as a character. i found some parts of this post had traces of what i’d consider to be a harmful way of thinking about fandom and shipping, and i wanted to adress it.)

the post mentions early one that liam brings theo back to use him, and that as soon as he finds out theo no longer has josh and tracy’s abilites, he wants to send him back. that the only reason he doesn’t is because theo remembers stiles. with this, you say that you see thiam shippers claim that liam does it from the goodness of his heart.

personally, i’ve never seen claims that that was the reason liam did it. i have, however, seen (and personally think this myself) that theo coming back from the hell he’s been put in by the hands of liam, might make theo quick to develop a bond or feeling of gratitude towards liam. there’s no doubt in my mind that theo understands why liam did it — but even then, it still got him out of there. in canon, no other pack member but liam even entertained the idea of getting theo back — i think theo is very aware of this, as well — which in itself automatically makes liam the safest pack member for theo to latch onto, from the get go.

Liam distrusts and despises Theo – and it never changes throughout the course of the show.

again, with the basis of liam and theo’s developing aquaintance in season six (heavily conveyed through non verbal communication - both in the form of touches/glances/body language and the things written between the lines; the things not specifically worded, but definitely said through their dialogue), there’s a lot that can be up for interpretation.

when i watched the show, i saw two characters who, yes, clearly had a shared hatred towards each other, learn how to work together and develop a tentative trust (that only grew throughout the season). i saw two characters that shouldn’t work together, work together insanely well, to the point where no verbal communication was strictly necessary.

my point is, thiam as a ship is heavily influenced by interpretation of what you see in their dynamic, and i find it troublesome that you look at other people’s interpretation and publicly say;

However, shipping someone and having fun with it is not the same as twisting into knots to try to prove that canon supports something, when it doesn’t.

especially when you follow this up by saying;

Yes, there is a person who acknowledges that Theo has changed. Who trusts and supports him even when they have no reason to. Who is always there for him and tries to treat him fairly even after being incredibly hurt and betrayed.

But that person isn’t Liam.

because you and i watched the same show, and we clearly have majorly different interpretations of season six; of theo’s relationship with people post-hell; of liam dunbar as a character.

however, i am not gonna claim that you’re wrong, and i’m right. your interpretation is entirely different from mine — and yes, based on what i saw, i do personally think you’re wrong, but here’s the thing; i understand that interpretation of this is just that; interpretation. theo isn’t canonically linked with anyone, therefore i cannot say that thiam is right and sceo is wrong — even as that’s my personal view of it.

back to the theo and liam and thiam shippers adressed in this post;

i want to preface my response to this with the fact that i myself have been/are in healthy BDSM dynamics. i have also jokingly said that theo ‘probably enjoyed it’. i have online friends who have joked about theo enjoying it. and here’s the thing; none of the people i know seriously think theo, in that exact setting, enjoyed it.

a great thing about fandom and shipping is the exploration and discovery of one’s own sexuality. we often talk about it openly; we discuss it with people, we’re ‘horny on main’, we learn from fellow shippers, we read fanfiction. we joke around with stuff.

there’s no doubt in my mind that people do not think theo raeken got pulled back from hell, chained up and forced to follow liam and hayden around, and actually enjoyed it at that moment. however, can i personally see theo as a character that would enjoy being chained up in other situations? yes. a lot of us do. and so we joke about it.

joking about certain aspects of a BDSM relationship when you’re looking at/reblogging things from canon does not undermine how important a proper and healthy BDSM dynamic is.

the post also touches on theo being a traumatized kid with unhealthy coping mechanisms. this is, without a doubt, the core of theo as a character. however, by putting it in the context of why it’s wrong to joke about him being a sub/rope bunny, feels so misplaced to me. a lot of kinks develop from the trauma we have (talking from experience). a lot of kinks develop at — seemingly — random (talking from experience). being traumatized doesn’t automatically mean we develop kinks, sure, but it also doesn’t mean we do not develop kinks.

without a doubt - chaining him up and dragging him behind them was not a kind thing to do; i don’t think anyone disagrees with that. but at the end of the day, these are characters. theo is a character we’ve barely gotten to know, especially post-hell theo, so he develops in our mind, we have headcanons, we think of personality traits that weren’t shown in canon. some of those pertain to his sexuality, and that’s okay.

this also pertains to your gripe with people looking at canonical depictions of thiam and seeing it as love. again, even in the thiam shipping part of fandom, we have majorly different interpretations of certain scenes, and that’s okay. i’ve touched upon the importance of acknowledging that thiam as a canonically hinted at couple is all up for personal interpretation of their canonical depiction; this also means that people will see things very differently.

the original post was mainly aimed at theo and liam as a ship, so i won’t get into the comments about liam as a character that much, but i will say this;

even you yourself mention that liam absolutely has reason to resent theo. but, you go on to claim that liam doesn’t have as much reason for resentment as other characters.

liam might not have been personally wronged by theo in season five as much as other characters, i will agree with that. but, he did watch theo’s actions and influence in the things done to mason, to hayden, to scott. all people he loved. this, in itself, is reason enough to build resentment towards a person.

it’s also important to remember that theo lessened liam in his mind to the beta with anger issues, stripped away every complex part of liam and simplified him into this one trait that liam himself has struggled with and tried to distance himself away from.

liam struggling with being depicted as a monster — pre supernatural; because of IED, supernatural; as a werewolf — has been canonically shown so many times. it’s gotten us the line of «you’re not a monster. you’re a werewolf, like me.». we’ve been showed, time and time again, that liam has a complexity within him that is constantly undermined — by brett, by stiles, and yes; by season 5 theo.

sadly, i also see liam simplified and put into the box of beta with anger issues by the fandom. this also, from what i’ve read on your blog and from statements about liam in this post, includes you.

how does that change in season six? let’s get back to the claim at the start of this post; of thism shippers claiming liam is the only one who trusts and supports theo, and look at it this way; theo — previous homicidal maniac out to ruin the pack (put simply; we’re both theo apologists, we know there’s more to him than that) — is one of the first people to look at liam’s anger and not let it be his only character trait.

the post mentions glances in the truck scene; this is what the truck scene (in my mind) is really about. theo acknowledges — even if not explicitly stated — that the anuk-ite’s ability to raise fear in people, raises anger in liam. he sees that liam’s anger is a direct consequence of the anuk-ite; he sees that the fear instilled in liam translates into anger; because of IED. this lets liam be a character that has IED, instead of just liam - the angry character.

this, again, is my interpretation of this scene. you might not have seen it that way. once again proving that this is a ship based on interpretation.

claiming that interpreting scenes is twisting canon until it fits your idea of it, is such a harmful way of looking at shipping. i have never interpreted anything romantic between scott and theo in canon, and could, in turn, claim that you twist canon until it fits what you want. but i’m not going to, because your interpretation of things doesn’t have to fit mine.

you can’t write a rant about thiam as a ship, state that you don’t want to tell anyone who to ship and that certain ships are wrong, and then undermine every interpretation anyone has had about liam and theo as a ship.

we’ve all seen the same season of teen wolf, we’ve all seen the exact same scenes (there are no version of the show you watched); but we’re all very different people. we interpret things very differently.

AND THAT IS OKAY.

do not undermine people’s ship. if you hate thiam, just stay away from it. don’t expose yourself to it. ignore it for all it’s worth.

it’s that easy.

#feel free to ignore this ppl :)#just had to get it off my chest #thiam meta #of some sorts?

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lily-orchard-gossip-blog · 3 years ago

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Compared to everyone else, my drop off point was so tame. This was years back during the height of the brony fandom and specifically the analyst community. I was essentially watching everyone's videos, though I did have favorites. Lily, in her pre-transition era, came up and I watched some of her content. I remember being confused whenever she tried to explain why something was good and turned off whenever she ranted about things. The big case I can remember making me uncomfortable was her hatred for Tiana from The Princess and The Frog. She brought her up a lot, she was basically the Kylo Ren or Starlight Glimmer of that era. And I remember being so confused because I didn't think Tiana was that offensive. Apparently, Lily thought her personality was over done or something, which is bizarre, Tiana arguably has the most distinct motivations of the Disney Princesses besides Mulan and Anna. She also blamed Princess and The Frog's 'failure' for the death of traditional animation, and even as a 13 year old who didn't fully understand the box office I called bull shit. The death of 2d animation in theatres had various causes and trying to blame it on a single film is extremely dumb. And if you are going to do that, Home on the Range and Winnie the Pooh are much better targets because they actually underperformed. The Princess and the Frog was successful, on the same level as Tarzan, Lilo and Stitch and Mulan, it just wasn't killing the box office like Tangled and Pixar movies were.

Beyond that, it was this general feeling of 'ok I get that you like this, but could you actually explain why you like it, because that is your job' and rolling my eyes as her explanations were basically 'because I like it'. In general everyone else in the analyst community was better at either explaining why something was impactful on them, or they were teaching me new concepts and ideas that I hadn't heard of before, so Lily got left behind. I didn't stick around long enough to learn about Stockholm or see the Josh Scorcher drama or even her transition. I only hoped back on when I realized how entertaining her internet drama was.

Interesting.

When I started watching her, it was after her transition and she never mentioned Tiana at all, but if she really did hate the character that much, then it makes sense that she would blame her film for the end of 2d animation.

Because that's kind of what she still does, except now its towards fandoms and popular fan characters.

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hotchocolatefanfics · 5 years ago

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Reboot PoTA Couple Theme Songs and their Meanings

Boy did this take me a while to finish! This is something I’ve been working on almost all of 2019 and I’ve finally finished it (2019 was not nice to me-my classes were, but everything else was a blur of getting sick and going from no anxiety to anxiety attacks happening daily. It was just a mess!)

Like the title says, it’s a theme song list for our favorite Planet of The Apes shippings and couples (I only did a few to save time but if this gets popular enough, I could do another involving any shippings and couples that aren’t present here (such as Will X Caroline or Malcolm x Ellie)).

Each couple have their own five theme songs (because one isn’t enough to tell their full story) and each song represents something unique about the couple dynamic or how the shipping can be interpreted and will include a description underneath (some may be longer than others (the more I know on that shipping/more I have to say, the more I write about them)-I apologize in advance for that!). If there’s any information that is missing or details that I overlooked (or even if you disagree with the description) please feel free to share!

Please note that you are not obligated to listen to these songs and you are completely and totally free to add a song to these couple lists. Part of the reason why I made this was in hopes that maybe it would spark a conversation amongst us PoTA fans about our favorite PoTA shippings/couple and explore other shippings.

Also, I didn’t include OC relations here but feel free to add them in your reblogs(you may also re-use songs that are already on these lists if you feel they could describe your OC x Canon shipping)! All love stories are welcomed on this post! (the only rule is there can’t be any underage or huge age difference couples).

My information sources are:

All three Reboot movies, Firestorm, Revelations, The Planet of The Apes Fandom Wikia and also reading a couple of stuff/peaking around on AO3, FanFiction.net, DeviantArt, and Wattpad.

With that said, enjoy the theme songs!

Caesar x Cornelia

Stand by you - Rachel Platten

Better Together - Jack Johnson

Say Something (I’m giving up on you) - A Great Big World

Kryptonite - 3 Doors Down

The Call - Regina Spektor

Description:

As this is a couples list, it only makes sense to start it with the king and queen themselves!

I think it’s more than safe to say that these two loved each other very much.

We saw Caesar and Cornelia’s relationship grow from Rise, Firestorm, Dawn, Revelations, to War and during that time, we’ve seen them grow closer (I actually think that, as their relationship progressed, Cornelia made Caesar a better leader-as she pointed things out to Caesar that he either ignored/didn’t realize/know in Firestorm).

When I personally think about this couple, I think about Caesar: The life he grew up with, the family he left behind when he chose to stay in the forest with the apes, the hardships he had to face in the earlier days/years of freedom and I think about all the stress and the anxiety that he had to have felt during those times. He had to have felt that he had to show strength in the presence of his followers-that would have meant not thinking/talking about Will, Charles or Caroline or letting it be known if he missed them at all.

Then I think about Cornelia. As his wife, she had to have known everything about Caesar. From his childhood to anything and everything he feared and worried about as king and leader. If there was anyone in the whole colony that Caesar could have shown that side to him, that uncertain, missing his family side to him, it would have been Cornelia, and I would imagine that she understood that he missed his human home. That she listened to his worries and comforted him-possibly reassured him if he needed it.

I didn’t know if it’s talked about very much but, as king and queen they’re very similar in personality: Both being compassionate and kind, but also fiercely protective of both the colony and of their friends and as parents, both are (also) protective and loving towards Blue Eyes and Cornelius (examples being Caesar protecting Blue Eyes from the bear and later protecting both sons from Carver in Dawn and Cornelia keeping Cornelius safe in Revelations).

This couple is featured in nearly every fanfic out there and every Planet of The Apes role-play that Tumblr has but I feel like we don’t talk about it enough. In War, Caesar was more than devastated by Cornelia’s death (and by the death of Blue Eyes) as he became vengeful, murderous and (pretty much) ready to kill because of it (remember that man with the wood at the oyster farm where they found Nova?).

If you really want to go there, it says a lot about his and Cornelia’s relationship during the war. That (maybe) the war took such a tool on Caesar (mentally and emotionally) that she became his strength. That (maybe) Caesar was already on the verge of losing it well before the attack on that hill (like having a breakdown or panic attack)-and I wouldn’t be surprised, as he was betrayed by Koba, then by Red and other followers of Koba, and his apes were being attacked, threatened and/or killed by the soldiers.

Maybe Cornelia kept him grounded, reminded him of who he was and what was important and when the Colonel killed her, it broke something in Caesar and when he lost her, he lost part of himself and may have forgotten who he was (only remembering when he realized he couldn’t kill the Colonel).

Blue Eyes x Lake

Kiss The Girl - Ashley Tisdale

Love Story - Taylor Swift

Colors - Halsey

It’s all coming back to me now - Meet loaf

When you’re Gone - Avril Lavigne

Description:

Blue Eyes and Lake clearly loved each other in War. We know they grew up together and played with each other as children though their (romantic) feelings for each other likely came later (around the time of Dawn/Revelations).

We didn’t get to see much of their relationship (due to Blue Eyes dying and/or being sent away in Revelations) but, considering that Blue Eyes was protective of his friends and family (and openly affectionate towards them in War), I think it can be assumed that he would have been a loving husband to Lake and would have protected her if she were in danger.

Lake appeared to love children, so it is reasonable to imagine they would have had children together and she would have, more than likely, been a wonderful mother to them. Lake was also brave (as seen when she defended Caesar in War), which makes it likely she could have assisted Blue Eyes as his queen (if he had lived to become king).

And now, the Fan-Made couples!!!

Caesar x Koba (aka: ‘Caba’)

Little Do You Know - Alex & Sierra

Hold On - Chord Overstreet

A Moment Like This - Kelly Clarkson

Breathless - Shayne Ward

Teddy Bear - Melanie Martinez

Description:

Yes, I absolutely had to start with this one as it’s, if I’m not mistaken, the most common shipping in the fandom (and it’s also my favorite too!).

Caesar and Koba were obviously very close in Dawn (as best friends and honorary brothers) as Koba saved Caesar from that bear in the beginning and Caesar later gifted the pelt to him. This relationship was created when Caesar rescued Koba and other apes from Gen-Sys and continued in Firestorm.

I can’t remember if I got this far into Caesar’s Story, but I wanna say there was a part in the book where it talked about Koba having feelings for/falling in love with Caesar(?)(Please correct me if I’m wrong).

It all came crashing down when the humans showed up and Koba’s hatred of them was reborn and it became clear to him that Caesar still ‘loved’ humans (when Koba said “Caesar loves humans more than apes” he may have actually believed that-it is also possible he may have thought Caesar loved humans more than him).

It eventually leads to Koba shooting him (which means he, essentially, abandoned his love for Caesar in favor of his hate for humans) and then declaring war on the humans-and later, resulted in Caesar having to kill him. Koba’s betrayal deeply hurt Caesar and so did killing him (let’s not forget that Koba’s ghost haunted him in War).

What I’ve noticed with this shipping is it’s all about the vulnerable and damaged side of Koba’s personality and about Caesar’s protective and compassionate heart.

Fanfics of this shipping sometimes follows the story of Dawn (with Pope as the bad guy or with Koba’s betrayal being deeper than just about revenge on the humans) and other times it’s completely different (nodding at the ‘Caesar and The Bonobo’ Beauty and The Beast AU on FanFiction and all other Caba one-shots(all deserve a read!)) but in all fanfics and fan arts of this shipping, there’s always a sense of heartache for the couple (either due to how Koba suffered before Rise or knowing how their relationship ended in Dawn).

Everything about this shipping is tragic and (when well-written out) heartbreaking but at the same time, it can be adorable and beautiful (I’m also tempted to call it irresistible for many fans-seriously, look on AO3, DeviantArt Wattpad, FanFiction.net-literally all of these sites has three or more fanfics/one-shots of this shipping (though I would advise you all to be careful as some of them may be, let’s say, ‘Rated R’)!).

I have not found any role-plays of this shipping on Tumblr (yet!) so I wouldn’t know how the shipping is portrayed in that category (Seriously, are there any role-plays of this? Cause I’d like to know!).

Koba x Stone

I Still Love You - Josh Jenkins

Yours to Hold - Skillet

Grenade - Bruno Mars

Hero - Enrique Iglesias

Immortal - Evanescence

Description:

I’ve, sadly, only seen this shipping on role-play blogs here on Tumblr so much of this is guessed (if anyone reading this has role-played this shipping before or have more experience with it, please correct me if I’m wrong!)

Stone was one of Koba’s friends and first followers in Dawn (aside from Grey) but his motives for following Koba are never talked about (also in Revelations, it says he’s dead but he’s clearly seen alive in War…Does he have superpowers or did he just disappear and showed up again for War?)

(Here’s my guess) Stone likely disagreed with Caesar’s role (to some extent but I doubt he was as extreme about it as Koba was) but what if, his main reason for following Koba had more to do with him having secret feelings for the bonobo than anything else? What if Stone saw and knew that Koba was still haunted by his past and comforted him when no one else would? And by the time the humans reappeared in Dawn, Stone developed his own hatred for the species that had hurt his love?

Meanwhile, Koba, who likely doesn’t feel comfortable talking about his past with anyone and felt betrayed and angered when Caesar disregarded his hatred of humans, probably would have resisted Stone’s affection for a long time before he finally let him in and fully accepted the comfort and love from the chimp (it is also possible Koba used that very sympathy to manipulate Stone into doing his bidding but I’m not sure if he would have needed to as, again, Stone would have already hated humans for torturing Koba in the past anyway).

Now about Stone’s death/survival: Let’s say that Stone survived Dawn (as seen in War). If he really did have feelings for Koba, it’s likely he would have felt guilty and somewhat responsible for his love’s death as he had chosen to agree with him that the apes should go to war with humans instead of talking Koba out of it (to be fair I’m not sure if Koba could have been convinced otherwise after the fight with Caesar in the dam but I think Stone would have had a better chance of reasoning with him anyone else).

Now let’s say Stone had actually died and Koba wasn’t defeated by Caesar. I think it’s more than safe to say Koba would be screwed if he was the one to have to go to war with the Colonel in War instead of Caesar (and it may be reasonable to suspect he may eventually realize the gravity of what he did and would regret it all as the war continues) but if this war took Stone early on, and if Stone and Koba were romantically involved, it’s also reasonable to assume Koba would have regretted that most of all-seeing Stone as the last (and by the time of War, the only) to love him and care about him and feeling lost and alone without him.

All in all, this shipping has a love lost and a sort of ‘dam(sel) in distress’ feel to it.

Koba x Cornelia

Sk8ter Boi - Avril Laringe

When I was Your Man - Bruno Mars

Uptown Girl - Billy Joel

Bad Boy - Cascada

Dear in The Headlights - Owl City

Description:

I have the same problem here-total guesswork!

Based on what little I know of this shipping so far, it reminds me of the ‘outcast falls in love with popular person’ scenario that is sometimes seen in high school movies. But this shipping could seriously work as a love triangle story!

Koba and Cornelia have little to no interaction in the books (the ones I’ve read so far anyway!) or in the movies but it is known that they see each other as honorary brother and sister (due to Caesar and Koba being honorary brothers). It’s reasonable to assume they had mutual respect for each other and that Cornelia was just as betrayed by Koba’s actions as Caesar was.

However, it is never revealed what Koba’s plans would have been for Cornelia had Caesar truly died (there is a chance he could have forced her into marrying him but I also think there's a chance she would have rebelled against him and Koba could have decided to kill her (or kill Cornelius as punishment and then kill her? I dunno know)).

Also, what if Koba had wanted Cornelia as his wife all along and only decided to kill Caesar when he did because the humans ‘conveniently’ showed up (unlikely but maybe)? I think this shipping was born from the idea that Koba always had a secret crush on Cornelia but kept it a secret because she married Caesar and knew he had no chance with her.

Another thought (and this is highly unlikely but still): In the wild, chimps would have multiple mates (Rocket in Rise for example) so there's also a (tiny) chance that Caesar could (in theory) be married to both Cornelia AND Koba-I have never heard of this particular thing happening and I’m not sure if the Caba and/or the Koba x Cornelia shippings are popular enough to warrant that sort of dynamic but it would make an interesting fanfic.

Koba x Pope

Issues - Julia Michaels

Battles Scars - Guy Sebastian Ft. Lupe Fiasco

Love the Way you Lie - Eminem Ft. Rhianna

Next To Me - Imagine Dragons

Courage - Superchick

Description:

For those who don’t know, Pope is the main villain from the Dawn comics. He’s very similar to Koba (as they’re both apes that came from labs) but worse as he enslaved primitive apes and saw them as lesser beings-going as far as calling them ‘stupid animals’.

Anyway, me and a friend made this one up a while back in our discussions and, from what I remember, we had two or three(?) different scenarios for this shipping.

One being that since they were both abused and tortured by humans, they may find comfort in each other (finding it easy to show vulnerability to someone who’s equally damaged) and fall in love from their shared experiences.

In the comic, Pope’s past is only hinted by Koba when he says: “He was like me…A lab ape. Bad Things, maybe worse.” and then his past is never mentioned of again however, Pope does say: “Never show weakness.” after the killing of a human later in the comic. Based on that, it’s reasonable to suspect that Pope may harbor a similar hatred to humans as Koba does and may suffer from demons of his own but keeps it well hidden from other apes.

Two being more about their personalities: Both Koba and Pope are capable of hurting people (as seen when Koba killed Ash and shot Caesar and Maurice in Dawn and when Pope killed the alpha, killed Fifer and Cora and enslaved all the primitive apes in the comic) and both are described by the PoTA Fandom Wiki as ‘cruel and tyrannical’ (with Koba being described as ‘belittling’, ‘unstable’ and ‘manipulative’ and Pope as ‘immoral’, ‘arrogant’ and ‘egomaniacal’).

Considering these traits, it wouldn’t be too hard to imagine one of them to perceive the other’s vulnerability as ‘weakness’ and actually abuse the other (like Pope abusing Koba or Koba abusing Pope). Based on their personalities, it’s possible the kind of abuse they’d inflict on each other would likely be physical, emotional, or mental abuse (or all three).

Third (and this is more of continuation of the second one!), even if Koba and Pope weren’t abusing each other, their relationship would likely be argumentative, unhealthy, troubling, rough and just very dysfunctional.

These are two very damaged apes with traumas that were not properly dealt with or given help for and full of pent up rage and hate towards humans (plus Pope hated Caesar and disrespected his rule). If they were to be a couple, their own traumas and hatred would feed off of each other and may, inadvertently, make it worse (this would likely not be a problem if Pope and Koba were with other people as a person who doesn’t have the same experiences or resentment as them would likely help ‘heal’ them). Maybe their relationship could work but they may need therapy (psychotherapy and/or couple therapy) before it gets there.

Red x Winter

Sorry - Halsey

Please Don’t Leave Me - P!nk

Accidentally in Love - Counting Crows

Secrets - OneRepublic

You Belong With Me - Taylor Swift

Description:

Eeeeeek! This one is my second favorite! I can’t wait to share this dynamic! :D

Both gorillas are first seen in Revelations. Red being manipulative, defiant, aggressive and violent (as shown when he manipulated Grey, lead the soldiers to the building where the colony was hiding in, tried to kill Cornelia (twice and one being while she was trying to help another female ape give birth!) and also when he slapped Cedar) and Winter being fearful and timid (as seen when he faced the wall after the building next to the colony’s hiding place was blown up and when he failed to kill Cornelia (which Red manipulated him into trying to do anyway)). Both are seen again in War, where Winter proves himself as a coward and Red a traitor.

Needless to say, both of these gorillas have very different personality types. The interactions they had both in Revelations and in War weren’t enough to say they were friends (let alone romantically involved) however, Red clearly knew Winter was easy to control. Why else would he consistently manipulate him? And Winter appeared to be afraid of Red. This could be because Red was more aggressive than him and Winter feared confrontation.

However, there’s a lot about the two gorillas that were never revealed (backstory wise. I actually do have a backstory theory for Red but that’s a post for another day). For example, Red was shown to have a lot of anger built up in him and while it is believed to be due to Caesar killing Koba, it feels much deeper than that.

Koba was only leader for a day and or two (or less, my math isn’t great) and Red was willing to kill Cornelia, manipulate and endanger other apes and betray the colony over that? No, this anger didn’t develop overnight. It had to have been there BEFORE Dawn (and it somehow has something to do with Caesar)!

Then there’s Winter. We know his father died before he was born but we don’t know how or what his relationship was/the whereabouts of his mother (this does open the door for speculation of whether or not the circumstances of his father’s death and the relationship he had with his mother could have anything to do with Winter’s fearfulness).

Finally, their relationship: What if Red’s anger and hate was all a mask? What if, deep down inside, he was actually a very hurt, troubled and damaged person and only knew how to show it through anger? And what if Winter’s greatest flaw was actually his strength? Winter was more open about his feelings in both Revelation and in War (whether it be fear, shock, or worry) while Red was very closed off.

What if that difference was what originally attracted Winter to Red? What if Winter, despite being intimidated by Red, viewed him as mysterious and was drawn to him by that. Meanwhile, what if Red was secretly jealous of Winter being so open about his vulnerabilities-even if he knew others would look down on him for it.

With all that said (sorry it was that long!), Red and Winter’s relationship would be built on shared (either expressed or hidden) vulnerabilities and traumatic experiences. Both have flaws and neither of them are weak. They just depend on each other for strength and (in one-shots where they survive War) for belonging as they have no one else.

Blue Eyes x Ash

Bad Day - Daniel Powter

Dark Paradise - Lana Del Ray

Perfect - P!nk

Complicated - Avril Lavigne

Count on Me - Bruno Mars

Description:

This is another shipping I’ve only seen briefly-I’m not sure if there are any role-plays of it on Tumblr (but then again I never really looked either!) but there is a fanfic or two out there of this pairing (again, if I miss something a detail regarding this shipping, please let me know!).

Ash is first seen in Dawn when he and Blue Eyes are fishing together. Right away, it’s pretty clear these two are close friends and likely grew up together (which would make sense as their fathers are so close). Based on the interactions between him and Blue Eyes in that scene and the council meeting scene, Ash can be described as humorous (such as when he poked at Blue Eyes) and confident in himself (like when he was teasing Blue Eyes over the bear incident) and Blue Eyes, is protective of him as he (presumably) protected him from Carver before Rocket and the other apes intervened.

Blue Eyes is left devastated and deeply hurt after Ash’s death and, throughout Revelations, thinks about him constantly and later having a dream about him.

Since I don’t know that much about this pairing, this is where the guesswork comes in: As these two grew up together, it’s more than likely they also knew each other on a deeper level than their parents did-for example, Blue Eyes could have told Ash all his secrets, whatever worries or fears he had, maybe ranted to him about his anger and frustrations with his father or about being prince.

I don’t know if Ash had any issues with his parents (as he and Rocket appeared to be very close as father and son-and we don’t really see Ash interacting with Tinker) but if he ever had a bad day, he’d likely talk to Blue Eyes about it just like Blue Eyes would.

This relationship would be founded on childhood friendship, turned best friends, into lovers. Likely turning into a ‘you’re the only person I trust with my secrets’ kind of relationship while also being a very supportive and protective kind of relationship too.

McCullough x Caesar

I Hate Everything - Three Days Grace

Girlfriend - Avril Lavigne

Hold Me Down - Halsey

You Don’t Own Me - Grace Ft. G-Eazy

Hellfire - The Hunchback of Notre Dam

Description:

I dabbled on this one in my Whumptober one-shots but if anyone’s interested in more of this shipping, there’s a few on AO3 (it’s easily the black sheep of this list but I think it deserves a place here for clarification as to what this shipping could be versus what it sounds like). It’s a weird pairing but it’s worth checking out!

I think we all know Colonel McCullough as the most evil human in the reboot movies (as he is willing to kill apes and any human who is infected with the virus-his own son for example) and seeing how he treated Caesar in War (chaining him up, forcing him and the ape colony to work, having him whipped and tied to a cross with no food or water for days, killing Cornelia and Blue Eyes) it’s easy to see why this shipping would raise eyebrows but it all depends on how one looks at it.

For example, I see the shipping as a possible twist on War: As the war between the apes and AO soldiers unfold, McCullough’s desire to capture and/or kill Caesar turns into something else. He becomes obsessed with the Ape King and decides the best way to defeat him and get rid of the apes would be to destroy Caesar’s life. So he deliberately kills Cornelia and Blue Eyes knowing it will provoke Caesar to go after him and later in the base when McCullough has Red and Preacher bring Caesar to his office, he blackmails Caesar into marrying him (saying that he’ll let the colony live if he agrees).

As a result of it, Caesar becomes McCullough’s “chimp-wife” and is a prisoner in this forced marriage, the ape colony thinks he’s abandoned and/or betrayed them, the AO soldiers and the Donkeys are confused by the whole thing and Red and Preacher (who witnessed the Colonel’s blackmailing marriage proposal to Caesar) are thinking “WTF is happening here?”.

Another way one could see this shipping would be as something funny. Yes, it’s dysfunctional but that could be the point! If one wanted to make a fanfic of this shipping, they could use the dysfunctional aspects of the relationship and make it funny. Think Marge and Homer Simpson for example.

For those who have an issue with this shipping, I 100% agree this relationship would be doomed from the start (if we decide to take it seriously). If McCullough and Caesar were to be married, I can picture the Colonel being abusive and predigest towards Caesar and his species, blaming him for all things wrong in the world (such as the virus, the fall of the human race), likely never showing any love or affection towards Caesar, and poor Caesar would become depressed and miserable from this awful marriage.

Bon x Pope (from the Dawn comics!)

Bleeding Love - Leona Lewis

Follow Him - Peggy March

I would Do Anything For You - Foster The People

Just The Girl - Click Five

All You Wanted - Michelle Branch

Description:

To be honest, I’m not sure if Bon was really this close to Pope as he only appeared once or twice in the Dawn comics BUT! he was one of his loyal followers and while it is possible he only disagreed with Caesar’s rule, there’s another chance that he may have had feelings for Pope (much like my description of the Stone x Koba shipping).

For those who didn’t read the comics, let me sum up the interactions between these two: Bon was one of Pope’s followers and is seen returning back to the zoo after (unsuccessfully) searching for an ape named Fifer who escaped them and informs Pope that there are humans nearby. Bon also took part in the battle between Pope and Koba and was later banished along with Pope’s followers while the primitive apes followed Koba back to the Ape Village.

As this shipping, almost no leg to stand on (and is more made up than the others on this list) allow me to explain it here: Much like Grey and Stone towards Koba, Bon (and a gorilla named Rex) followed Pope-presumably because they also disliked Caesar and/or his rule. As Pope didn’t actually plan on killing Caesar until later in the comics and didn’t realize there were primitive apes, in the beginning, I don’t think there was any manipulation going on from him.

Now let’s look at Pope for a second: Pope was an ape who looked down upon anyone who showed weakness or was primitive and had no problem with enslaving, torturing, endangering or murdering other apes. Like I said in my description for the Koba x Pope shipping, Pope was also a lab ape (with fishnet scars on the left side of his face, shoulder and chest giving us a hint as to what he was put through-though it’s never actually discussed) so it is reasonable to imagine he may have his own demons and traumas, much like Koba does (unsurprisingly, Pope also hates humans).

The thing about Pope that I’m curious about is if he is traumatized from what had been done to him at the hands of humans, does he show it? He likely doesn’t as he appears to dislike seeing it and other apes showing weakness but that would mean that, much like Koba, he’s holding things back, probably much more than Koba was (as Koba is seen in Dawn talking (briefly) about what he went through with humans to Caesar).

Now looking at Pope and Bon, it makes me wonder if Bon could have picked up on that. Like what if Bon saw the pain that Pope was covering up and reached out to him?

That, and it is also possible Bon was into the ‘bad boy’ type.

Phew, glad that’s over! XD

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starryjyrus · 5 years ago

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What Jyrus Means Too Me and Why I’ll Never Be Fully Won Over By Tyrus:

!!TW OF ATTEMPTED SUICIDE AND DISCUSSION OF MENTAL HEALTH!!

The Summer of 2017 was by far the best Summer I’ve ever had, it’s kind of a shame it was followed by the worst Summer I’ve ever had..

Anyway, back at that time I had been really into SmurfVlogs (still am, I’ve been watching him since about 2015-16 I’d say) anyway, everyone had been mourning the loss of Girl Meets World and he had announced on his channel that Disney planned on making a show similar to GMW and that the pilot had been released on YouTube, I became hella curious especially when I had heard the rumor that there was a possibility of a gay main character and that there was supposedly going to be a gay love triangle between Cyrus/Andi/Jonah, this definitely peaked my interest considering Disney, outside of Good Luck Charlie and a few other cameo like characters/relationships spotted in different movies/series, like Finding Dory, hadn’t really had that. And a MAIN character? Possibly TWO main characters being LGBT? I obviously had to watch. I of course heard other things that made the series look good, ie the Teenage Pregnancy storyline, the diversity in casting and more, but this is what sold me. Thus started my obsession.

Anyway, I watched the show. I watched the first episode on YouTube and continued watching after that, I remember the break in between the middle of season 1 that was only like two weeks, I remember seeing missing scenes in the show that wasn’t in the original promo (their was a shot of the coming out scene in the season one promo, if it wasn’t obvious to some episode 1 of season 2, or at least the first half, was originally the episode 13 of season 1) and I remember the speculation around that and the reasoning as to why they had cut that scene out.

I was in love with it. The whole storyline was just so pure and the relationship between Jonah and Cyrus was the single best thing I’ve ever witnessed. I made a fan account on Insta for it, a Tumblr, edits and so much more. The whole community was so beautiful and it was so much fun and wholesome. I’d watch the show and remember how amazing the world could be, how something like the ‘friendom’ could exist haha. I was getting older and I know it seemed weird (I was going into my Sophomore year, possibly just ending my Freshman year of school when I started watching) to be so invested in a CHILDS show but I couldn’t help it. It was an escape from reality. A place with positivity and happiness which at that time I desperately needed.

I made some of my best memories of my life during that time of the show premiering and during the hiatus. And the majority was because of things in relation to Jyrus. I’ll never forget those times and what being connected into a fandom like that was like.

The friends, the edits, the Insta live-streams from casts, it was insane too see how happy they got from it all and how much of a new experience it was. Other things like the Asher ‘be you’ memes and Josh on here with his ‘persongoingfast’ tumblr made it great as well. Even if I’m not a big fan of Josh as a person now, due to reasons, (mainly with him seemingly making fun of or mocking Jyrus and stuff like that, considering I used to really look up to him and be a big fan to see belittle something I cared so deeply about hurt me on a level l cannot describe) him being so interactive then was still an amazing thing and helped make things so much more fun at that time, so thank you @joshua-rush for that. Sincerely.

Everything was so beautiful during that..until it lwasn’t.

My mental health got really bad due to some losses and such in my family around November of 2017 and I had to be hospitalized in a mental health facility for a few weeks. It was extremely scary but I found comfort in the place, mainly due to some fellow people inside that watched Andi Mack, relating to them and being able to talk about the show with people who actually watched it? It was incredible. No one up to that point (aside from my mom who I forced to watch with me) watched the show and could talk with me about it.

I got out and the support and concern I get from friends online was overwhelming, so many people cared about me while I was gone and worried about me. No one ever really did that, at least my friends didn’t, I remember opening my phone for the first time on the way back home when we stopped at a McDonalds and the amount of messages put me into tears. There were people online who I’ve never met and we only really knew each other through a ship and a show genuinely CARED about me? It was breathtaking. I have much more friends now that would be concerned and care about me, but at that time irl I really didn’t. And the fact so many did was unbelievable.

Everything slowly but surely was getting better and worse in some areas, my overall depression state was getting better, due to medication and such, but I had relapses a few times in bad areas like self harming as well. It was pretty back and forth for a while.

Then, the worst thing that could’ve happened, happened. A quick backstory is that I don’t live with my mom, I haven’t since 7th grade and instead have lived with my Great Aunt and Great Uncle. I was always very close to them for my entire life, especially my Great Uncle, he was for a long time the most important person in my life, he was like a father too me. Hell, he WAS my father for the majority of my life. And last year on July 11th, he had unfortunately passed away.

This was absolutely devastating and considering I already was struggling with mental health and depression in the first place..ya can probably guess the spiral that ensured.

For a while I was doing okay, and then one day I broke, it had been around the time of Cyrus confirming he no longer had a crush on Jonah and when everyone started to switch from Jyrus to Tyrus and Jyrus shipper hatred became pretty popular. People were sending a specific Jyrus shipper anons of saying they wished they’d die just because they shipped Jyrus, you couldn’t go on YouTube comment sections on videos about Jyrus because you had people shitting on it everywhere, people started commenting under Jyrus edits on Instagram about how Tyrus was better and how gross it was to ship Jyrus, I got DMs of people genuinely upset because I didn’t like Tyrus, I had friends leave the sites due to the bullying they were receiving, we had some Tyrus account going around saying Jyrus shippers were ped*philes, It was insane. Now, I of course was NO saint and I know I’ve done and said some messed up shit too and if I ever hurt anyone I am deeply sorry for that, it was not my intention. And I know Jyrus shippers are not all saints either but this was just out of control. Especially whenever it was hurting a lot of people who were innocent and making them feel wrong about something as little as shipping something.

And I had a mental breakdown. I had just lost the most important person in my life and now the place that I considered my safe haven was crumbling before my eyes and all I could do was watch. It was too much. I had people saying they wanted shippers like me dead, and finally I just couldn’t handle it and completely had a melt down. If you are already having thoughts like these and you have people reinforcing what you already thought and not making you feel like you belong, well, anywhere, it really does get too you.

I of course, came out alright. Thank you to the Tumblr creator that called the police that night for a lot of that.

I’m sorry this is so long but I’ve been holding this in for so long so please bare with me.

Anyway, I am doing much better now and I’m thankful to be here still. I’m learning to fight against the haters rather then take shit and bottle things up like I used too. I still have a lot of issues but since that awful night, I haven’t had any plans of suicide or many thoughts of it.

I’m going into my last year of high school and soon I’ll be a legal adult. It’s been such a ride to get here and honestly I never thought I would but I finally think I’m getting past all of the shit in my past and am moving on.

My main reason to make this post and to be so open about everything here was to try to explain a lot of why I’m always going to be for Jyrus and not so much for Tyrus. I have other issues then the fans when it comes to Tyrus, but it has always been a main one when it comes to me not wanting to ship it.

When I look at Jyrus, despite them being pure and amazing on their own, I see some of my last good memories, I see the best time of my life, I see a point where I felt the best and where everything was going really right too me, I see long lasting friends, I see beautiful edits, I see a community, I see love, I see loyalty and so much more.

But when I look at Tyrus, all I see is the bad memories I have associated with them and the shippers, in a lot of ways, Tyrus has been a huge source of my personal pain in life, I know it seems silly and it probably is, but I have such an emotional dependence on Jyrus and Tyrus messed me up in a lot of ways in regards to that. I lost the majority of my safe haven when they emerged as more then just a crack ship. All I see when I look at them is sadness and that’s all I’m probably going ever going to see.

I tried in numerous areas to get fully on board with the ship but I just can’t. I have no love for it in a way I do for Jyrus. It’s not a terrible ship, I know that, but throughout everything that has happened even if it had no flaws I don’t think I’d ever ship it a lot.

I know everyone has their own version of things and reasons why they ship what they ship or don’t ship what they ship or like some shippers but hate others, this is just my personal story on the matter and I hope it clears up some of why I act the way I do online sometimes and why I’m so defensive of the ship and shippers.

Sorry this was so weird, I just needed to get this off of my chest cause I’ve had it in there for so long and I needed to talk about it.

#andi mack #jyrus #vent type thing

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thatgirlkennedie · 6 years ago

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G*vin R*ed

So my most recent post regarding my game experience had mentioned Gavin Reed and I said I was going to need a longer post to describe why I strongly dislike him. That post is now. Now you can disagree with me all you want and if you want to talk about it with me (like an adult), my ask box is there. Now without further ado, I’m going to get into the nitty-gritty that is Gavin Reed.

I’ve seen this fandom since this game came out. I’ve seen the good, the bad, the great, and the God awful stuff all over this Hellsight. Now, there’s a bunch of characters in this game, some characters who we only see a few times and those you see throughout this whole game. I bring this up in general because there’s seem to be a lot of favoritism in this fandom which I’m not saying is the problem; My problem lies when favoritism is put on a person who has little to no interaction and only a few scenes of them present. It’s baffling really, I thought a fandom as big as DBH would come to actually favor the three main characters, maybe even the leaders of Jericho but boy was I dead wrong. Favoritism is more often than not on 4 characters; Connor and Hank, which make sense, Gavin Reed which... I’ll get to, and RK900 or as the fandom likes to call him, Nines.

Now, I love Connor just like anyone else and even love Hank too and I love them both because of their character development throughout the game. But my favorite character will always be Markus by far and Kara fall short because of awful writing from Dav Cag himself. Most to all characters that aren’t Connor or Hank fall short to poor character development and it makes sense for everyone to like Connor and Hank.

What irks me is the amount of love for Gavin Reed and RK900. Now, I don’t hate the people who like them, but it sickens me to see how 2 characters, one in which is on screen for literally 4 seconds, have more love than both Markus and Kara combined. I have no ill hate toward RK900 because he doesn’t warrant hate since he literally says nothing when he’s on screen. And I get the whole “But he’s a blank slate uwu” but really you guys rather develop someone with nothing than develop the characters who have something but not enough? Wild.

Now I see people talk about how Gavin is not that bad, that he’s just a gay tsundere or their “trash boi (TM)” (and it’s not everyone but it’s a heavy majority), but he’s literally just an asshole and on top of that, he’s racist. And why is he racist? Well maybe because he antagonizes androids for fun???? Being unnecessarily rough with a traumatized android and not only that, but he’s blatantly mean to Connor and that doesn’t sit right with me. Abusing your power because you think you can since you’re a cop is no bueno. Also, the fact that he also makes fun of Hank when he knows he has an alcoholic problem is awful behavior. Not to mention the fact that he can actually kill Connor in the evidence room without any remorse is literally terrible. His character bio literally says he’s an asshole and I believe he’s poorly written and unnecessary to the game.

Now, I love an actual good antagonist. Like Amanda, she’s great because she represents an actual antagonist toward Connor with him taking orders as such. Gavin is no antagonist, he’s just a bully. A redemption arc? Redemption for being nothing but an asshole? Nope, not worth it. I rather see character development of literally anyone else before I even think about a Gavin Reed Redemption Arc. And even though he isn’t a good antagonist, he does represent anti-android prejudice just like all the other humans who hated androids. I most certainly rather see him be that kind of villain being portrayed rather than an “Oh but look! He’s a misunderstood boy, I swear” redemption arc. If there was even an ounce of some sort of us seeing him changing just a little, I wouldn’t be making this post in the first place which leads me into another thing I’ve seen.

Gavin Reed apologist

There’s a pretty obvious difference between fanon and canon. One is what the story is and what is given to us while the other is the fandom interpretation and creative aspect of canon. The fanon Gavin, I couldn’t give a shit about because you can change a character all you want, but when you change a character and begin to believe that that’s how they are in canon and apologize for how they are, red flags go off in my head. This goes for any character really but seeing Gavin portrayed as just a gay tsundere only is a big can of nope to me.

Another thing I want to mention that I’ve seen people compare Gavin to other characters for behavioral purposes. Just so I don’t make this post too unbelievably long, I’m not gonna describe all the people I’ve seen him being compared with but I will give an example of one: Hank. Now I’ve only seen this a few times but I think it’s downright silly comparing these two. Yes, they both were mean to Connor and yes, they both hated androids but what set those two apart is the fact that Hank actually developed. He had a reason to hate Connor, was it justified? Nope, but it was a reason nonetheless, Gavin has no reasons at all. He fulfills the “I’m a cop I do what I want” narrative almost too well and before you start pulling out the pitchforks, yes, I know he’s underdeveloped but he’s just like all the other human that hate androids. He believes his job is threatened because Connor is there which I think is silly because Connor is the only android there like why are threatened and why are you such a bully??? Hank was the same way, he was very verbal about his hatred but even he started seeing Androids as more than just machines and I commend him for that. And before you say “But we don’t know anything about Gavin so how can you say this?” Well, if Hank, who’s not only lost his son to what he believed for so long was due to an android and is a depressed alcoholic can change, I’m pretty sure Gavin could have changed but nah, he’s just bitter.

Now I spoke about favoritism before and I feel like it even goes deeper than that. Most might not realize it (it’s an unconscious thing too with our society) but it’s also racist ideology to choose white character over POC. Now before you start putting my head in a guillotine, think about it. Is Markus or Josh in your favorites list? Is either of them in remotely the top 5? Are they above a white character? Better yet, are they above Gavin? If the answer is No to most of these, first of all, that’s okay, but unconscious racism is a thing that is just that, unconscious. You don’t mean to do any of it but with our white driven society, that’s the majority of what we see so you're bound to be drawn to white characters more often than not. It’s rooted inside of you since birth really so it makes sense and it’s not your fault. And I say this only because I think it’s baffling to like Gavin over Markus in like any context.

I guess to some all of this up, Gavin is just a bad character with no redeeming qualities and people apologize for his shitty actions. And hey, if you like him in the game or fanon than good on you, but I for one will not stand for someone who’s a racist, bigot, asshole or anything that glosses over (or worse, romanticize) his shitty behavior. And at the end of the day, he is just a character in a video game but does that change my stance? Not in the slightest. There’s so much more I can say but I’m gonna leave it here. This is all opinionated btw so you are free to disagree or agree if you want and I’m open to talk about it only if we’re keeping it, once again, adult-like.

#dbh #gavin reed #dbh gavin #hi i don't wanna argue #but i'm down to discuss #I just think he deserve a brick to the face #but if you like him then cheers to you #these are opinions so you are free to disagree

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miss-rosie · 6 years ago

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-The Klance Post-

-Disclaimer: this post is in no way intending to hate on any other ships, especially Allurance. It is simply me talking about my opinions on who will be the endgame couple. Everyone is free to ship whatever they want, I am not in any way saying that my ship is the only good one.-

So, this is it I guess. In a few hours, the final season of Voltron will drop and finally we will find out whether Klance will become canon or not. It’s been a crazy ride with this show, but honestly I couldn’t be more grateful. I have so many happy memories from this show and I’ve learned from and related so much to the characters, as well as met my best friend and so many wonderful people through the fandom. As you may know, Klance is kind of my life and I am very optimistic that they will become canon in the next few hours. However, even if they don’t, this ship has made me smile, and laugh, and cry, and I will never stop loving it regardless.

I’ve been working on this post for almost 2 months now, and finally, a few hours before the last season drops, I’m finally posting it. This is basically just all the evidence I’ve compiled that makes me believe so strongly that Klance will be the canon endgame. I basically restored my own faith in Klance while writing this. So if you’re looking for some hope in these last moments, just keep reading...

________________________________________________________________

Ok guys, to start off, I want to talk about this live stream done by Jeremy Shada. (the voice of Lance)

In the live stream, a fan asks Jeremy if he can elaborate on Lance’s endgame. Obviously, he can’t tell them the answer, or say too much at all, because that would spoil the ending of the show, but what he does say gives some solid evidence for why the endgame will be Klance. Allow me to break it down for you.

The main thing I want to focus on is when he says that some people will think "oh this thing came out of nowhere!"

I think it's safe to say that most of the people who watch this show, but aren't really in the online fandom, would naturally assume that Allurance is the endgame. If you think about it, Lance has been flirting with Allura since the first episode, and they had that scene in season 7 where they blushed at each other which obviously would be seen as very romantically coded to anyone with eyes. Therefore, to most casual viewers, there wouldn’t really even be a question as to who the endgame couple will be, as Lance has only ever actually admitted out loud to liking Allura. So my point here is that Allurance isn’t really the a ship that would seem “out of nowhere” to most of the viewers. Even people who don’t ship Allurance, including myself, can see that so far the only explicitly proven romantic scenes have been with them. However, Jeremy clearly states that the romance endgame in the show will seem to come out of nowhere to some people. Well, of the only two endgames that seem to really be options at this point, Klance or Allurance, which one do you think would probably seem to come as a surprise to most casual viewers? The one where the boy has been pining after the girl since the first episode, and has spoken many times throughout the show about his crush on her. Or the rivals who couldn’t even speak to each other for the first season or two without getting into an argument? Yeah, that’s what I thought.

I think we can all agree that most casual viewers would think Klance totally came out of nowhere, not Allurance. Since these people had never even considered the two of them could ever develop a strong loving relationship, they will likely have not realized that over the course of the show, Lance and Keith have in fact had the most developed relationship of all the characters. They go from rivals, to colleagues, to friends, to something so much more. They have gone through so much together and have grown and matured so much both individually, and in their relationship, that if those viewers had payed attention to the two of them and how the way they interact and view each other throughout the show continued to change and develop, they really wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them end up in a relationship.

Another thing important thing Jeremy says in the live stream that is that "the creators put little things throughout the series in ways to kind of make it as a whole make sense.”

By saying this, Jeremy continues to support the point I was making earlier, that if one were to simply pay attention to how the creators have developed Lance and Keith’s relationship in small ways from the very beginning, the endgame would easily make sense as a whole.

There is so much foreshadowing, so many parallels, so many unnecessarily soft looks towards each other, to possibly ignore that Keith and Lance are written as a pair. Just as Hunk and Pidge are portrayed as the tech genius pals and Shiro and Allura as the strong selfless leaders, Lance and Keith are constantly portrayed as a set, although the exact definition of their relationship continues to change. If you were to watch the show over again and count every time Lance and Keith are standing right beside each other, that alone would be enough to prove that the two are clearly set up to have some sort of significant relationship, whatever that relationship may be.

I could go on, but there just isn’t enough room in this post to have a picture of every time these two are together, and I think you get the point.

Now enough about the livestream. There’s a lot more evidence still to get into.

In a panel for the show, Josh Keaton (voice of Shiro) encouraged fans asking about the endgame relationship to be patient (true to character as always) as the endgame is set up as a slow-burn.

Although Lance has flirted with Allura since episode one, Allurance is in no way a slow-burn relationship. A relationship requires effort from both sides. Their relationship has in no way developed at all until the end of season 6, when Allura finally begins to acknowledge Lance’s presence, although only viewing him as a friend, as she was in love with Lotor at the time. So, while Lance has been putting in the effort from the beginning, Allura has never once shown anything but annoyance or at best indifference towards his advances until after she is betrayed by Lotor in the second to last season. Then she suddenly develops a crush on him in the span of half a season.

On the other hand, Klance is the perfect example of what a slow-burn relationship looks like. These two boys start out with a lot of tension, caused by Lance’s one-sided rivalry with Keith (one that he created out of jealousy that Keith was always “better than him” instead of actual hatred towards him). It takes them time, but slowly they begin to argue less and work together better as they spend more and more time together. After Shiro disappears and Keith is forced to take his place as the leader, Lance finally matures about their relationship and lets go of the “rivalry” he created with Keith as he steps up to become his right-hand man. It’s after the pressure to maintain this image of hating Keith is finally gone, and Lance allows himself to become openly friends with Keith, that the two quickly become very close. Lance becomes Keith’s support as he struggles to lead the team and deal with the loss of Shiro. Throughout the show, their relationship turns from barely-able-to-say-a-word-to-each-other-without-causing-an-argument to a solid relationship built off of mutual trust and genuine care for the other.

Of the two options, it is clear which one fits Josh’s description better. Klance is a slowburn, Allurance is not. Those are just the facts.

Now I would like to get into more detail about some of the many parallels the creators put into the show that prove Klance will be the endgame couple.

First off, there’s the scene where Krolia and Texas found the blue lion together which very similarly resembles the scene when Keith and Lance found her.

Although the entire team was there when they found Blue, Keith and Lance are the only two that step up in front of her, just like Krolia and Texas did. (Yes, we are calling Keith’s dad Texas in this post, fight me)

There’s also the scene where Keith’s angry expression while Lance was injured perfectly mirrored Krolia’s when Texas was injured.

In both cases, Keith and Krolia’s love interest was severely injured and they can do nothing but wait while they recover. They both stare to the side and brood with their arms crossed, as their way of dealing with the genuine concern they’re feeling.

(he’s not wrong)

Then there’s the parallel where the creators lowkey made the scene when Texas meets Krolia almost identical to the scene where Keith meets Lance.

In both scenes, there is an explosion in which Krolia and Keith make their entrances, followed by their love interests Texas and Lance discovering them.

Assuming that this parallel was not just some crazy accidental coincidence, what could possibly be the reason to mirror Lance and Keith’s meeting with Texas and Krolia’s if Lance and Keith were not eventually going to end up in a relationship just like the other couple? Solid math, I know.

Then we have the parallel when Keith finds out that Krolia left earth so that he would be safe, just like Keith left the team so that Lance could keep his spot in the red lion.

While Keith doesn’t explicitly say his reason for leaving the team, it’s clear that Lance questioning his place on the team is what made him decide to step aside. Both him and Krolia make a selfless decision to leave the one they love, in order to protect them.

Then we have my personal favorite... this perfectly identical parallel between Keith/Lance and Allura/Lotor.

Both scenes start off with Lance and Allura having a special moment together, only to be interrupted by their respective love interests and then proceed to direct all their attention to that person. Allura’s face when Lotor calls her is exactly the same as Lance’s when Keith calls.

Basically, throughout the show, there are many parallels comparing Lance and Keith to characters like Krolia/Texas and Allura/Lotor, both of whom are in (or previously were in) confirmed romantic relationships.

In an interview, when asked about the significance of parallels in the show, (specifically the one where Texas/Krolia and Keith/Lance find the blue lion in similar ways) Jeremy Shada confirmed that those parallels are very much intentional.

Here are some clips from his answer to the question. (The answer was very long so I only included the parts that have to do with the parallels and their importance. However none of these clips are taken out of context or edited to seem to mean different then the original answer. These are Jeremy’s exact words.) You can find the entire unedited answer here:

“Anytime you can have parallels I think, as a viewer, um, there’s just that kind of… uh, unspoken kind of symbolism behind the scenes when it, when you know, there’s a parallel with an earlier scene too and it kind of has that emotional resonance and weight to it. ”

“And so I think those are always intentional. I don’t think, usually I don’t think those are coincidental because especially, if you’re writing something and you write it and you have seasons that are airing when they’re you know, farther through the show, um, you’re kind of going back and going, ‘oh yeah! we did that!’ ”

“And so I don’t think those are usually unintentional, I think those are usually pretty, um, pretty intentional when the team puts those in there.”

Basically, the creators continuously parallel Keith and Lance’s interactions with those of other couples, proving that in the future, the pair will likely become a couple too.

Still not convinced? Don’t worry, I’m not nearly done yet.

In order to further continue, we first need to talk a little about Keith’s character arc.

Each of the main character’s in Voltron have an individual arc. Keith’s is all about allowing himself to open up to people and get rid of his fear of loving people and being loved.

Growing up, Keith was a kid who’s mom left him as a baby, and who’s dad died when he was fairly young. His tragic past had a serious effect on how he handles relationships when he’s older. Keith starts out in the beginning of the show as the “loner”. He is afraid of growing close to people and allowing them to see him vulnerable for fear that they’ll end up leaving, just like his mom did. So to avoid getting even more hurt, he keeps himself closed up, hidden behind so many walls, so that people won’t get close to him. He keeps his feelings locked inside instead of opening up and risking being rejected.

Now, over the course of the show, Keith has grown and matured so much, and has really overcome this constant need to appear indifferent to people who care about him. An instrumental part of his arc is when he finally finds his mom, and spends those two years on the space whale with her. All that time, seeing each other’s memories, finally understanding why she left him, growing closer together, forming a bond. It’s in those two years that Keith finally realizes that it’s ok to let people love him and to love them back.

Keith’s arc is about him finding 4 different kinds of love.

The first kind of love, is brotherly love.

Shiro is the only person who Keith is visibly close to before going to space. He took Keith in when he was a just a problem child to everyone else, jumping from one foster home to the next, and never stopped encouraging him to make something of himself. Despite Shiro never once giving up on him his entire childhood, Keith still hesitates to express how much he cares about him because of his built in fear of rejection.

In the episode in season 2, where Shiro and Keith meet with the Blade of Marmora for the first time, Keith tells Shiro that he’s like a brother to him. Here, he already loves Shiro, but he’s hesitant to show too much of his emotions for fear that, even after everything Shiro has done to prove that he truly cares about Keith, he might still not feel the same way.

Compare that scene, to the one where Keith finally says “I love you” for the first time. This is after he’s come to peace with his mom, and with himself, and learned how to let people into his life. The hesitation is gone. Shiro is no longer like a brother to him. He is his brother.

In this scene we really see how much Keith has grown in the show, as he finally lets himself be vulnerable and say how he feels now that he’s dealt with the trauma caused by his mother leaving.

Which brings us to the next kind of love Keith will find in the show, motherly love.

After his entire life of questioning who his mother was and why she left him, Keith finally understands that she did it to protect him and can begin to heal from all the hurt it caused him. In their two years together in the quantum abyss, Keith develops a strong bond with his mom and comes out much more confident because he knows now that she loves him, and he’s finally allowing himself to love her back.

The third kind of love Keith will find, is the love of a friend.

Since the beginning of the show, Keith always closed himself off from the rest of the paladins. He would usually stand in the corner when they were having fun together and stay to himself. He never felt like he could fit in and he was always afraid of getting to close to them, again, because he had this huge fear of being rejected. In season 7, when the paladins are lost in space without their lions, they all start to talk very honestly about their feelings and can’t seem to hold back anything they’re thinking, even if it’s hurtful. (almost like they’re drunk, in a way) When Hunk tries to keep him from leaving, Keith snaps and once again falls back into his habit of distancing himself from the people who care about him. When he’s not in a right state of mind, Keith’s insecurity about whether or not the paladins are his friends comes out.

However, later in the season, when Hunk is struggling with not knowing where his family is, Keith is the one to step up to comfort him, something he never would have had the confidence to do before, because he has learned that Hunk and the rest of the paladins really do care for him as their friend, not just their fellow soldier or leader.

Finally, Keith realizes that it’s better to let people in, and he is finally able to be a real friend to Hunk and experience the love of friendship.

Now the final kind of love Keith will experience is the only one that hasn’t had it’s conclusion yet. That is romantic love. Obviously, the only person this could happen with is Lance as Keith has never shown any interest in anyone else. Everything that’s happened to Keith up until this point in his personal journey has been building up to this. Finally allowing himself to be in love with Lance will be the final piece of Keith’s character arc.

The creators have confirmed that when the same facial expression is used more than once for a certain character, it's because they were intentionally making a connection between the scenes and the emotions that character is feeling. When Keith is talking to someone he deeply cares about, he makes a certain face. He makes it with each of the three people I talked about in regard to his character arc, and also one other time. That time is when he is talking to Lance.

Keith’s talking to Shiro (his brother):

Keith talking to Krolia (his mother):

Keith talking to Hunk (his friend):

Then there’s Keith talking to Lance (his love interest):

Still need more proof? Say no more, I got you.

There is one episode in season 7 that is just packed full of Klance content: The Feud. This also so happens to be an episode which the creators say has a ton of foreshadowing. Everything in this episode just screams KICK.

Seriously, we can’t even get past the title of the game show without some serious evidence.

Let’s take a look at the logo for Garfle Warfle Snick.

Obviously, it’s not written in English, but that is the least important detail. What is worthy of noting is that this logo is an exact copy of the logo for the 1970′s show, The Dating Game, a game show in which couples had to choose their date based off questions they were asked. Take a look.

Identical right? Although the letters for Garfle Warfle Snick are not written in Engish, the symbols appear to be written in the same font. Then, we also have the way the words fit together, which is perfectly identical. Not to mention, the little flower shapes which were basically copy/pasted from The Dating Game’s logo.

Now it is important to realize that in animation, every detail is intentional, as it has to be drawn into the scene by the animators. These two logos are so similar, that there is no possible way the creators didn’t purposely make the logo for Garfle Warfle Snick so similar to the logo of The Dating Game. Therefore, there must have been a deliberate reason for the similarity.

So, remember how I said in The Dating Game couples would have to choose someone to be their date? Yeah, well if we look back to The Feud, who were the only two of the paladins to choose each other to get to leave Garfle Warfle Snick? That’s right. Keith and Lance.

Now it honestly was a bit of a surprise when Lance chose Keith to leave out of all the paladins. Given his past with making advances towards Allura in order to gain her affection, this would have been the perfect opportunity for Lance to prove to just how serious he was about liking her by giving her his vote. But he didn’t choose Allura. He chose Keith. What does that tell you about how important Keith is to Lance?

Really though, there’s honestly no need to even speculate about Lance’s intentions when he made his choice. His soft, love-sick, face says it all.

That fucking eyebrow crinkle. That is the face of a man in love.

Also.. Lance calls Keith “the future”. Despite being just downright romantic as fuck, this is also a nod to this scene from way back in season 2.

Look at that. Lance started out the show looking for his future Mrs. Blue Lion in any single cute girl he could find in space. Now, 5 seasons later, he finally realizes that Keith has been his future the entire time.

It’s called, character development.

And this is not even the first time we’ve seen Lance with that same exact love-sick look while talking about Keith. He makes the same face when gushing about how cool Keith is to Laika.

Now, while Lance’s reason for choosing Keith has us all in our feels, Keith’s response when he was asked by Bob why he chose Lance was not so romantic, and has a lot of people upset, calling Keith an asshole for being so rude to Lance.

Ok, so I know Keith’s response sounded very rude, but if you think about it for a second, his logic really doesn’t make any sense. Keith knows how important team Voltron is to the universe. If only one of them can get out to continue the mission, Keith knows the weight that decision holds. I find it hard to believe that he would really waste his vote for the sole purpose of getting rid of someone annoying so he could spend the rest of eternity in peace.

Keith spent two years on the space whale in the Quantum Abyss seeing probably hundreds of visions of the past and future. It’s possible that in one of those visions Keith saw Allura and Lance during one of their bonding moments and assumed that she finally started to reciprocate his feelings and that they were together. Seeing Lance choose someone else probably hurt him a lot and because Keith’s instinct when he’s hurt by someone is to retract into himself instead of talking to them about it to keep himself from being hurt anymore, he pushes Lance away. This would explain why, after all the time that Keith had been gone from the team, despite him and Lance having become friends before he left, he totally blew Lance off when he got back. He’s doing what he’s always done. He’s “pushing people away before they reject him”. Instead of allowing himself to keep having the feelings he has for Lance, he completely closes himself up to try and keep his heart from getting broken. He tries to push Lance away and act like he doesn’t care.

What he says about not wanting to spend an eternity with Lance is completely fake. Keith is just pretending he doesn’t have feelings for him because that would leave him vulnerable to be rejected.

Remember, Keith doesn’t get emotional when he’s hurting, his first instinct is to get angry and immediately put up all his walls. Take a look at his body language. He has his arms tightly crossed and he looks very angry. It reminds me a lot of when he went to talk to Hunk.

He’s trying to help Hunk but he’s afraid of opening up too much and possibly getting rejected.

Keith uses this body language when he is holding himself back from showing his emotions. He doesn’t actually hate Lance, he’s just trying to act like he doesn’t care as much as he does.

He can’t even bring himself to make eye contact with Lance, probably because he knows his facade would crumble the second he did. His anger is directed more towards Bob for putting him in this situation in the first place.

In the end, we can’t take what Keith said to mean that he doesn’t love Lance anymore. He’s just trying to cope with the fact that Lance and Allura are supposedly together in the only way he knows how.

*Also side note, can we all take a moment to appreciate Pidge’s face when this is all going down. Poor thing is so goddamn confused.

Has nothing to do with Klance, but I just love this precious child so much...

Anyway, back to the point... Amazingly, there is still more Klance evidence The Feud has to offer.

When Bob tells Lance that his team is starting to lose faith in him, his excuse for why he is failing at the game is that he’s “just not real good with names”.

While that is an understandable excuse, it brings up a question from way back in season 1. Lets go back to the scene where Keith breaks in to save Shiro in the first episode. Remember how Lance was the first one to immediately recognize Keith, without even being able to see his face?

He instantly knows who he is just by looking at his hair. For someone who’s “not good with names”, that’s pretty unusual I would say. As we know that Lance is not the type to remember the names of people who do not hold some sort of significance to him, Keith must have been pretty important to Lance, seeing as he was able to identify Keith from only his mullet, at such a distance.

(Not saying that young garrison Lance would spend entire classes staring at Keith’s hair from behind, attempting to convince himself that his gay crush was in fact just very intense feelings of hate, but that’s exactly what I’m saying.)

Also, notice how Pidge seems to have no idea who Keith is.

However, as soon as Lance says the name, Hunk immediately reacts, probably because in his time at the Garrison, he’s been on the receiving end of many angry rants about the guy’s “stupid mullet” from a very jealous and flustered Lance.

With this information, I think it’s reasonable to to believe that Lance’s obsession with Keith (whether or not he understood his feelings at the time) began way back before the show even started when the two were still at the garrison together.

Now... another thing I want to mention is the famous “You are deserving of respect” picture drawn by producer, Lauren Montgomery.

Now yes, this poster could really not mean anything and could have just been a sweet message where the paladins were chosen at random to hold up their signs. However, notice how both Hunk and Keith, and Pidge and Allura have had small arcs dedicated to the topic of the signs they are holding.

In season 1, Allura talks to Pidge about her gender, and how she was pretending to be a boy.

In season 2, Hunk talks to Keith about him being galra.

Both those two pairs had the words on their signs translate into real plots in the show.

Seeing that signs for "gender" and "race" turned out to have a direct connection to the canon storyline, with the people holding them, it's only logical that Shiro and Lance will have their own miniature arc based of the "lgbt" sign. We already know that Shiro is gay, as well as being Lance’s “hero. Therefore, it's very possible that lance will go to him for advice on his feelings for Keith, and Shiro will help him as he has experienced the same thing.

Another thing I want to touch on is the “relationship” between Keith and Acxa. For those who are concerned about Acxa becoming a romantic interest for Keith, allow me to ease your mind.

While it is white possible that the reason Zethrid and Ezor continuously tease Acxa about liking Keith is that Acxa may actually have feelings for Keith, is is also very likely that Zethrid and Ezor were simply messing with her to throw her off and distract her from the battle. However, regardless of Acxa’s feelings for Keith, I can assure you, Keith does not have feelings for her.

Keith is very gay. This boy has never shown any romantic interest in any women in the entire show.

Just look at his reaction to just the idea of being in a relationship with a woman.

The poor guy just wants to fight like normal people without having to be shipped with the girl he’s trying to save out of common decency.

Then there’s the scene where Keith catches Allura sneaking into the pod, and she falls into his arms. Allura immediately gets flustered and blushes uncomfortably. However, Keith doesn’t even flinch and seems totally indifferent to the fact that he’s carrying the princess in his arms.

*Quick reminder that the last time he carried someone in his arms (Lance) he made it a very big deal.

But to the point, Keith’s reaction to catching the princess in his arms is not the reaction a guy who likes girls would have.

Not to mention the time he low-key checked out the hot alien dude who’s crashed ship they were fixing.

Have I made my point? This boy is not straight.

If that’s not enough evidence, Bex Taylor-Claus (voice of Pidge) themself confirmed in a livestream that Keith and Acxa are not going to be a couple, refering to them as “kindred spirits”.

So fear not, Keith is still very gay and is most certainly not in love with Acxa.

This scene is most likely just Acxa either wanting to thank Keith for saving her life (like a decent person, or alien I guess) or possibly she is related to him or Krolia in some way, and that will be touched on in season 8. Either way it has been confirmed that Kacxa will not be a thing, so there’s no need to stress about it.

Now, there’s one more thing I want to talk about before wrapping this up, and that is the infamous “stay safe out there” scene that basically confirmed Allurance...right?

Lmao you really underestimated me if you thought I wouldn’t find a way to bring Klance into the most Allurance themed scene in the entire show.

Notice Lance's reaction when Veronica mentions the princess liking him. He doesn't get excited or cocky about it like he normally would have at hearing that kind of news. In fact, he actually denies that Allura even has feelings for him, saying that she just cares about everyone. That really doesn't seem like the reaction Lance would have to finding out Allura likes him earlier in the show. Last time someone told lance Allura liked him back, he had a very different reaction.

If we already know that Lance is never shy when it comes to the princess, why is his reaction to different in season 7? He constantly acted like the princess liked him even when she clearly didn't. Why would he act like she doesn’t when she clearly does if there wasn't something inside him that changed? Maybe he's not so certain about his feelings for Allura anymore huh?

This is just reminding you not to lose hope just because of this one scene. One scene against an entire show of built up evidence, is not the end of the world, or in this case, the end of Klance.

My prediction is that in season 8, Allura will be very open about liking Lance, and he will try to go with it at first, but as we started to see in that scene, there will be something off for him and he will realize that he has moved on and loves Keith.

Now, it’s about 3 hours until the final season drops, and I have to post this now or never. Just remember, Klance has a serious chance guys, but even if it doesn’t become canon, everyone be kind and remember that it’s ok to not have everything go just how we wanted it to go. There’s no need to hate on Allurance if it becomes canon. Klance will always live on in our art, our writing, the friendships we’ve made because of them, and in our hearts. (I know, cheesy as fuck, but Voltron is almost over and I’m emotional)

It’s been an honor flying with you all. And one last time...

KICK

#klance #voltron #Voltron legendary defender #vld #keith kogane #lance mcclain #keith #lance #kick #goodbye voltron #and thank you #just my posts #i love you all and enjoy binging #i'll be back on saturday to scream with u all

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themasterofcider · 6 years ago

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A Defense of North

First let me say everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm not bashing anyone for feeling a certain way. I just want to have a dialogue/analysis about a character in a game that I've quickly fallen in love with. Feel free to call me out on any misinformation or any contradictions that I may make. This is all for the sake of fun character exploration and writing praise/critique, so don't take things too seriously. I also want to acknowledge my bias, since I adore this particular character and the archetype that she embodies. Especially in war stories.

Now, I've noticed North has gotten some pretty strong (typically negative) reactions in a lot of the fandom. I get why she wouldn't be everyone's favorite, since she is one side of an extreme and does react on emotion more than rational thought. That being said the outright hatred she gets is shocking to me. I've seen people calling her trash and wanting her to die, and I'm interested in getting to the bottom of why she gets these intense reactions from so many people. It makes me wonder if I'm the one who missed something, haha. Please offer me rebuttals or explanations, because I'm legitimately curious. Especially given what we know of her background.

North is revealed to be an android who "worked" at the Eden Club. What we know that to mean is a sex slave who gets their memories erased. And who is she made to serve? Humans. We also learn from her that she'd been at Jericho for about a month. I haven't looked back at her case file in the police station, so I don't remember the exact dates, but going on her words (and the fact the cops are still actively pursuing her case) we know she hasn't had her freedom for very long. It should come as no surprise then that she's hurt, angry, and ready to fight any chance she gets. What I saw was a character who was in pain, and I immediately felt for her. The severity and how recent her previous situation was doesn't seem to be acknowledged by many of the people who don't like her, which is definitely something I wonder if they don't take into account. I also have to wonder how better she'd be received if she was crying and timid as opposed to bold and reactive. Or even male, but the latter is a discussion about demographics and how people respond to sex, gender roles, and gender identity (meaning not a topic for today.) I can't speak for everyone, but what I've gathered in my life people are prefer those who vent their pain either through tears or silence rather than anger and words. Even if the reasons for reacting that way are completely valid, and I think North is valid in her emotions. We can't ignore someone's pain just because they don't express it in a way that we prefer. If I was in her situation I'd be beyond pissed and likely react in the same way.

Continuing on, I want to look at her positive qualities, which many seem to ignore. The woman is selfless and passionate. She not only supports the cause, she lives it, breathes it, and will stop at nothing to achieve her goal of freedom as well as justice for androids. She loves her people and her ideals more than anyone even herself, and isn't afraid to make sacrifices. She is willing to die (at Jericho during the raid, during the fight at the camp, and gently questions Markus on why he as the leader and beacon of hope for those androids would risk his life to save hers) and if you go the pacifist route and get results she sticks around to help - not sure if there's an option for her not to - proving she actually does care for for android rights than her grudge against humanity.) She's courageous, never afraid to be the first into the fray, put herself at risk, or (as mentioned above) die. She's also unabashedly supportive. Once Markus arrives at Jericho she's almost always in the same scene with him. Either praising, giving council, encouraging him, and asking him to lead. She's pretty much attached to his hip, and that's good, because we can see she believes in him, and isn't afraid to help. She's also responsible. In the event Markus fails to benefit Jericho, she as one of the four (Simon, Josh, and Lucy are the others) who actively supported and trusted him assumes command of the revolution. She helped bring that guy in, and now she wants to fix the problems he created herself in order to protect the other androids. She's not a "bad" person at all in my opinion. Bad people don't have those qualities.

I did admit my bias earlier, so this is where I concede that North does have bad traits. Even though I know where it comes from, and I think she's justified to a point, her dislike of humans is bigoted and isn't any different from the humans who hate androids for existing. She's able to share memories with Markus and see how nice Carl was, but never really changes or discusses that with him. We see her relationship meter go up, but that's it. Not any real development there, but I'm not sure if it's a North problem or a writing issue. Then we have her being very reactive. I said she was an extreme earlier, and I meant it. A leader needs to be quick on their feet and decisive but also balanced and analytical. I worry that she, while driven, selfless, and passionate she would be too quick to jump into a fight rather than understanding diplomacy is sometimes just as good a route. Nothing's wrong with fighting when you have to, but not every issue needs to turn the world into a battlefield. I don't think she'd make as good a leader as Markus, but I think she's the next best thing Jericho has. There are some who think North will be very insistent if you don't agree with her, but so will Josh, Simon, Hank, and any other character in any other choice-based game. Their job is to sway the player by making them question their decisions. She's no more annoying than anyone else. She just suffers from "Secondary Character in a Story Driven Game Syndrome" in that regard.

That about covers it I suppose. I love this character to bits, and as I've typed this I've come to three main reasons why I think people may not like her. The first, is that she just doesn't resonate with some, and that's fine. We all have those characters we just don't click with. The second is, that people don't like how she expresses herself even if they don't necessarily disagree with her, and the third is that she's really our only romantic option for Markus, and that people are frustrated and taking that out on her. Anyway I'm always open to discussions and am super interested in whether you agree or disagree with me. I just love the game, so even if you don't wanna talk about this particular topic or don't feel comfortable responding where the world can see, send me a PM and let's chat. :)

#detroit become human #dbh #dbh north #dbh markus

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witchofeindor · 6 years ago

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I’ve gotten a bunch of cexgf followers recently so HI and welcome! <3

In short:

1) General (mostly reblogs) tag: ‘Crazy Ex Girlfriend’, ‘cexgf parallels’ is an additional tag for parallels.

2) My cexgf brain vomit tag - ‘ceg thoughts tag’

3) My negative/critical tag - ‘complaining about ceg tag’

4) You probably shouldn’t follow me if you ship r*thaniel, not bc of shipping bullshit or whatever, I don’t ship anyone* on the show romantically, but bc…it makes me deeply uncomfortable, for many reasons. (though all of me whining about it goes to ‘complaining about ceg tag’ if you wanna blacklist it)

5) I don’t like following a lot of blogs but you’re always welcome to interact/talk to me regardless of whether I’m following you back or not.

Let me know if if you need anything tagged, fandom or not . (This goes to ALL followers ofc) (If I follow you please tag snakes and terrorism)

* Ok healthy Valencia/Rebecca is sorta an exception but like...can u really blame me

In length:

My general tag for the show is ‘Crazy Ex Girlfriend’, for mostly reblogs but sometimes also for things I put in the tags (I rarely put original content on the tags though). An additional tag for parallels I use is ‘cexgf parallels’.

My General Thoughts tag is ‘ceg thoughts tag’, but I often use it for stupid ramblings/memes too (I’m very incoherent so even on the rare occasion I do write shit it’s a mess), my complaining tag is ‘complaining about ceg tag’ and u can blacklist it if u don’t want to see me whining about the show (mostly Nat’s existence and everything else Nat, r*thaniel (though s4 so far HAS been righting some s3 wrongings), and the mistreatment of Valencia (GIVE MY DAUGHTER THE INTERNALISED HOMOPHOBIA AND COMING TO TERMS WITH INTERNALISED COMPULSORY HETEROSEXUALITY ARC SHE DESERVES YOU COWARDS) wrongings the show hasn’t righted yet.

I rarely follow back bc I REALLY hate having a crowded dash (im sorry it’s a pet peeve) but this in NO way means you can’t talk to me or whatever. Feel free to hit me up ANY time!

my Opinions:

Nathaniel is trash and BORING and i cannot stand him, hated him since he was introduced and said hatred only became stronger since. He should have never been a character on the show. If you like him you may not want to follow me but like. as long as you don’t woobify him and don’t ship him with Rebecca we’re fine. You’re obvs allowed to have bad taste :) if you do ship him with rebecca then...we can’t be civil bc why do you gotta hate mentally ill Jewish women so much

Valencia is a lesbian but representation matters and the Situation Is A Lot more nuanced than that so obvs reading her as bi if you’re bi is cool. I just read her as a big ol’ lesbian. She also deserves all of Nat’s screen time. And writers who actually care about her and understand her.

Both Heather and Rebecca are basically canonly bi. (But I think we all can agree on that).

I don’t ship Rebecca x any man as a general rule (not only bc it’s all toxic but also bc it’s. besides. the. point), but as long as it’s not r*thaniel I can handle that. I do like both Josh and Greg as characters. A lot, even, just not as love interests.

Except for maybe healthy Valencia/Rebecca, I don’t ship anyone on the show romantically. And except for r*thaniel I can tolerate most ships I guess.

Fav 3 characters are Valencia, Heather and Greg (bc I relate to him a lot, I’m no grebecca). Rebecca, Paula and Josh follow them v closely . I like most characters tbh expect for N*thaniel. He’s just boring and a waste of screentime.

#idk what tag to put this under but i think it's stuff Crazy Ex followers would find useful #so I'm putting this in my #personal #tag I guess

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kharmii · 6 years ago

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I know, I've been super busy around here lately.

This is the latest person to block me from being able to see their blog/posts. All I did was see that pissy looking Mindbender and thought it would be funny to comment, "Mindbender be like, "If some guy acted like that around me, I'd make his life a LIVING. HELL."

I thought it would be FUNNY. I was HAVING FUN, ya know, fun..the way fandumb...er fandom used to be before it was hijacked by a bunch of thin-skinned, sjw maiden aunties with no sense of humor (or at least their stupid auntie humor isn't appreciated by most) who will block people for being the least bit salty or disagreeable.

Side note: I have a feeling all these tumblrinas who are into the concept of weak, beta cuck Destros being dominated by strong, assertive Baronesses are actually very timid irl, as in the kinds of women who won't meet your eyes when you're speaking with them. They might be the types to cheer on the likes of black bloc with their baseball bats and pepper spray, but they wouldn't be likely to participate. A lot of them might even be effete-men loving fujoshi who might be extra intimidated by an irl big, hulking Scotsman like James McCullen.

I had my head canon of trans-Mindbender in mind when I made the joke. He'd be an overexpression of an alpha female, as in so alpha, he has dysphoria and wants to be a man. That's why he dresses like an alpha chad with his douchy popped collar polo shirt and Guido hair style, but unfortunately for him, he's stuck with a weak, finely-boned woman's body. He'd be better off with an even stronger male partner -such as Sebastian Bludd <3- because he'd be prone to treating a beta cuck partner like shit all the time. -Not that there's anything wrong with romantic hand-kissing, but the op implies that he's a bowing passive male.

Side note 2: This reminds me of an old episode of CSI where a prostitute who worked at an S & M club was found murdered. The murderer ended up being a hen-pecked beta chode who was married to an aggressive alpha female who barked orders at him all the time. He ended up hiring a prostitute to pretend to be his wife, yet he wanted her to act submissive toward him. He felt such resentment toward his wife that he ended up going too far dominating the prostitute. She ended up dead. That kind of stuck in my head. It's already being found out that those type of guys are Josh Whedon type losers, and they actually harbor deep hatred and resentment toward women.

Anyway, I'm super inspired to post more trans-Mindbender or Bluddbender stuff on the Renegades tag, because it pleases me to do so. I get lots of belly laughs and have fun. That's what it's about, right?!

#baronestro #gi joe renegades #chicken shit #dr. mindbender #fandumb fail #I'm being deep

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bountyman · 7 years ago

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(whispers all of the above for the canon questions thing :3c)

questions for muns of canon muses! || x || no longer accepting || 1-9

What is the biggest headcanon deviation from the canon material that you have incorporated into the way you write your muse? Why did you come up with it?

I actually try pretty hard not to deviate from canon material, especially since Josh lives in a time where a lot of the problematic things presented in the show are fairly accurate. Fortunately, even in a problematic era, Josh is pretty liberal about a lot of things. Despite serving in the confederacy (he was drafted, not serving by choice), he isn’t racist and treats minorities with a heckuva lot more respect than the other characters, even if he doesn’t understand them or their customs completely. He’s very protective and defensive of them. There are a lot of times when he goes out of his way to fight for native tribes, etc. BUT I’m getting off topic…

Despite Josh being more liberal and generally accepting and open-minded for his time, he’s also pretty sexist. I don’t try to cover that up in my portrayal. BUT I totally retconned the “To the Victor” episode from my RP canon just because it’s so ridiculous and out of character half the time. Josh is forward with women and, yeah, sometimes a little forceful, but he’s only that when he feels something spark between himself and that woman. He doesn’t force them into a kiss and hold them there when they obviously don’t want him to. And he CERTAINLY doesn’t give a crap about whether or not women wear dresses or jeans. Sure, he has his views on what’s ladylike and how he thinks women should look and act and so on, but in the long run? It doesn’t phase him that much and he keeps his views to himself.

Maybe I’m not scholarly enough to appreciate the nod to the Greek play Lysistrata, but I could rant for days about how much I hate “To the Victor”. It’s the only deviation I’ve made to canon. Everything else, I try to stay true to.

Do you have any controversial headcanons that go against what is generally accepted by the fandom? Do you incorporate this into writing your muse or keep it to yourself?

Considering there isn’t a talkative fanbase–if there’s a fanbase at all–for Wanted: Dead or Alive, not really?

What is something that was never addressed at all in the canon material that you have independently developed for your muse?

Why Josh started bounty hunting and what happened to his parents / the majority of his younger life. I’ve also developed the relationship between Josh and Susan far more deeply in my headcanons than canon gives us. Namely, having them travel a while longer together before falling in love. I might make proper HC posts for that.

Have you made any outright changes to the canon material in order to write your muse the way you wanted (entire scenes you chose to omit, chapters you say never existed, things you assume were never said, etc.)?

Ahh, I guess I sorta answered that in the first question. I omit the “To the Victor” episode. Just because it peeves me off that much.

What is an aspect of your muse’s canon material or canon existence that you never had the opportunity to explore but really want to?

Answered here!

What is the general opinion of your muse’s fandom about them? Do you agree with it?

I don’t know what the general opinion is of my muse within the fandom since the fandom is so tiny. We all probably think Josh is a great guy, though. How could you not?

For movie or TV muses, what is your muse’s favorite scene? Why? Can you show a screenshot?

This one is hard to answer because there are SO many scenes that I love. Practically any scene in “The Twain Shall Meet”, “BaaBaa”, and “The Cure”, all three are fantastic episodes. But I think one scene that always stands out to me the most in reflection of Josh’s character is a scene in “Surprise Witness”. We see Josh get angry a lot over the course of 94 episodes, but the scene where he visits Domingo in the jailhouse… man, it’s CHILLING. I could do a whole breakdown of that scene alone, gushing about McQueen’s delivery and the intensity in his eyes and voice. I won’t, but because I love this episode so much, I may go into more depth in a separate post later on.

Just know that this scene ^^^^ and the steel in Josh’s voice when he says “I’m gonna watch you hang” is absolutely incredible. Better yet? How you can SEE Josh mentally trying to pull himself out of that moment of boiling anger and hatred before he leaves. It’s the first time we see real murder in Josh’s eyes. If he wasn’t so tied to his own morals, I’m certain he would have beaten Domingo within an inch of his life for killing Leon and he would have enjoyed it.

"Surprise Witness” may not be an episode with the most fascinating plot (it’s actually sort of slow in comparison to other episodes), but it’s still a great episode that adds much needed depth and insight to Josh’s character. I love it.

For movie or TV muses, what is a scene with your muse that you hate? Why? Can you show a screenshot?

Literally anything from “To the Victor”. But specifically this. I think I already explained why I hate this part. Unfortunately, it’s not the worst scene of the episode, but it is the worst scene that involves my muse’s characterization.

I hate how he INTIMIDATES this woman, circles her, gets up in her personal space, close to her ear, and tells her what makes a “real woman”.

Like??? Okay. Josh is known for bluffing and being threatening, doing whatever he can in order to scare or force information or reactions out of criminals so that he doesn’t have to use actual violence. I can let that slide… EXCEPT SHE’S NOT ACTUALLY A CRIMINAL??? ALL THE MEN IN THE TOWN ARE JUST PISSY BECAUSE ALL THE WOMEN LEFT THEM AS PROTEST AGAINST THE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS (which admittedly is really silly given the time period and fact guns were a necessity then) BUT THAT DOESN’T MAKE HER OR ANY OF THE OTHER WOMEN CRIMINALS. Josh!! Wouldn’t!!!! Do THIS!!! TO A CIVILIAN!!!!!!! And did the writer of this episode completely forget that Josh has traveled with women who regularly “acted like men” by wearing pants / shooting guns / fighting / etc.??? Did they forget that Josh didn’t so much bat an eyelash at any of those women??? THAT HE LITERALLY COULD NOT CARE LESS???????????? THAT HE HAD RESPECT FOR THEM REGARDLESS OF NOT LOOKING OR ACTING LIKE THE SOCIALLY TYPICAL WOMAN???????????? And!!! If that isn’t enough!! HE DOES THIS AFTER SHE SLAPS HIM:

EXCUSE ME. I know he’s getting paid for this crap, to try to bring the women back, but what the heck, Josh??? I don’t know what’s worse, the fact that Josh thought forcing a kiss on a woman who obviously does not like him or want to be kissed would somehow “bring her to her senses” to start acting like a “real woman” OR the fact that the writers thought it was necessary to have a moment after where Strata looks like she’s considering it, like one nasty kiss changed her mind. I think if it had actually worked, I might have screamed. Thank heavens the actual resolution of this episode–though weak and still excruciatingly stupid–isn’t quite that stupid.

I won’t pretend that W:DOA isn’t a product of its time to some degree in most every episode, but “To the Victor” is just an OOC train wreck that I can’t forgive.

For movie or TV muses, what other character played by your muse’s actor/actress has a lot in common with your muse?

I haven’t seen many of Steve McQueen’s films, but I can say that Vin from The Magnificent Seven is basically Josh. They’re practically the same character personality-wise. They’re both drifters, quiet, use really bizarre metaphors / idioms / analogies, they’re generally caring and understanding, and have an eye for pretty women. Vin just speaks more clearly and isn’t a bounty hunter.

#wisenedup #long post for ts;#thanks so much! [ooc meme respones];#i didn't intend to rant that much on to the victor #but that episode just gets me so fired up i hate everything about it #terrible terrible terrible #azikeos

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obsessivesassenach · 8 years ago

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What the ever loving fuck is wrong with you people?

You people You Antis, NST, Truthers, Haters, wtfer name you want to be called or are called. You people. You know I’m talking to you @noshippingallowed @contemplatingoutlander @goldenoutlander @adhara112 @aliceinoutlanerland (oops you forgot the d in outlander. get a d.) @whylimewhyanything (put the lime in the coconut) @whoreallyknowswho (it’s whom! whom! unless you just forgot to finish your sentence) @prodigiousreblogger @bestof60 (are you 60?) @vividdreamer318 (your imagination is certainly leading you astray) @breezylouisey (is that you weezy?) @momofmusa (i thought you were mom of USA lol) @alittlebitmasss (oops your s key got stuck) Anyway, there are more of you and I’m sorry I didn’t give you a moment of thrill by acknowledging you by name but I mentioned the Tumblr accounts that I’ve seen making horrendously wild, hateful, fictional, hurtful accusations against other Outlander fans with no speck of proof - accusations meant to inspire others to emulate you and spread hate to those people as well. Let me get this straight. From what I can tell, you are super hopping mad about the content of certain Twitter and Instagram accounts. Fine. Totally fine. You are entitled to your opinions. I can see why those accounts might make some people mad. I mean, irrelevant to my life but maybe not yours. You are mad that certain Twitter and Instagram accounts have been created for the sole purpose of throwing shade and mocking a certain celebrity you hold in high esteem. I get that. Fine. Be outraged! Express yourselves!! Speaking of fine I know you will go through this post with a fine toothed comb for anything you can argue with and attack me over because god forbid you actually read the message, digest the information, thoughtfully consider the content and then share your thoughts and opinions and maybe answer some of my questions. Nope that’s not your style. Attack attack attack half-cocked and don’t put any thought or concern for reality into it. Yes you are the borg of Antis as the foil to the Shippers. I didn’t create that world, you did. You wanted to be the anti-shippers. You are gathered on Tumblr together to be this Anti-Shipper fighting army. Go forth and fight uhh I guess? WHY???? See, shippers are motivated by love. That’s really obvious. There are all types of shippers just as there are all types of people (and even all types of antis), but what brings them together is not just their love of Outlander (and you guys love Outlander too! Whee we have something in common) but their love of the LOVE parts of Outlander and all the LOVE associated with Outlander in promos, BTS, interviews, Q&As, social media banter between the cast and crew, etc. LOVE is LOVE is LOVE is LOVE is LOVE is LOVE is LOVE is LOVE. So you generally don’t see shippers on social media attacking people with hatred and lies and accusations of criminal activity. Wait wait wait. Correction! YOU see shippers doing those things but no one else does. You mostly see shippers doing those things with accounts that aren’t even recognized shipper names. They are basically troll accounts that you have deduced are shipper accounts. You do have these long convoluted narratives of what certain shippers are alleged to have done and you bandy them about so frequently that your telephone game grows legs and walks it’s own marathon and becomes some weird beast-mode attack shipper who does horrible things. You say you SAW these things but you haven’t. Show me a tweet, a facebook post, an instagram post from an Outlander fan who identifies herself as a shipper and has a known persona in the fandom and is attacking, hating, committing these horrendous crimes you claim. What I mean is, SHOW ME THE MONEY! SHOW ME PROOF to back up your narrative. You have specifically named a number of Outlander fans and made outrageous claims as to their character, behavior, beliefs, actions, off-line actions and more. YOU HAVE NO PROOF BECAUSE THESE STORIES ARE FICTION. I’ll give you an example of how your lies have grown wings, run a marathon and turned into beast-mode: So a certain blue check account posts that a certain object of your hatred and hate-mongering did something so illegal that she would have been arrested and would still be in jail. You all headnod, mouth breath, feel righteous for having attacked her because you were soooo right, bang away at your keyboards and continue the lies and hatred and stoke the fires for uhhh fun? Yet you all know that she isn’t in jail and couldn’t have done this highly illegal thing because you watch her every move and you saw her posting pics of herself just last weekend participating in a fitness event. Hmmmm. Are you collectively dumbing each other down with your groupthink or all you all that stupid? YOU KNOW IT’S A LIE. But you’ve all convinced each other it’s ok to lie about it, malign, spread hatred and misinformation about certain fans and tarnish their reputation in the fandom because… because? because why??? Help me out here. So it’s because someone has said rude bad things to an actress you believe is Sam Heughan’s girlfriend even though he has never once said so. You BELIEVE it so it’s your reality. And the fans that you malign? You do that because they believe something else. But the weirdest thing is that you do malign them by tossing out totally unfounded and false accusations about their behavior and ascribe all kinds of unsavory activities, motives, and behaviors to these fans you have chosen to malign. You do the thing to them that you so claim to hate they are doing to the objects of your admiration. I’m still working on this and I still need your help. So because you BELIEVE that two actors are dating and BELIEVE that it’s wrong that internet trolls make claims that they are not and some internet trolls say really rude things and tag them, you feel fully justified in making claims that the trolls are not just trolls but actual recognizable Outlander fans. Are you like shippers of trollworld or something? I’ll just come right out and say it. Kim Hickey is not behind any of those trolls accounts you claim she is. I know this and you know this. You know which accounts are legitimately hers because she identifies herself. You are even attacking her My Peak Challenge account that she posts inspirational memes and encourages people to donate to Bloodwise. Are you for fucking real? You’re attacking a charity endeavor in your blind hatred of…. hatred of who fucking knows. Even if you didn’t know she wasn’t behind the troll accounts, you absolutely have no basis for claiming she is. You are making shit up and publicly proclaiming it as truth just like that thing that Shippers do that you claim to hate. Also, let’s talk about me: I am a public person online. I don’t hide behind cutesy names. You can look me up and it won’t even be doxing me because it’s all right there, isn’t it? I have no sock accounts. I put my name on all my accounts because I own what I say and share. This tumblr account was created in the middle of last summer as a parody of Starz Obsessable campaign therefore it did not need my name on it. I never had a Tumblr account before that and I have never even sent anons on Tumblr. I never pretended I was anyone else or made any attempt to be anyone else. I posted freely about myself and my life when it was topical, including photos of myself. If you were like BINGO I’m such a supersleuth I figured out who is behind that blog!! you’re not smart or observant. It was obvious. The thing is, though, shippers didn’t know who I was. Not because they didn’t know who was behind “Obsessive Sassenach” but because they didn’t know who Nipuna was. Isn’t that funny? One of the Outlander fans on the top of your BAD SHIPPER LIST WHO MUST BE EXTERMINATED list isn’t even known by other shippers. What makes me a shipper? Just that I have heart eyes for Sam and Cait and think they have chemistry and oh wait, whoah, ZOMG, Arthur Kade thinks that too. Josh Horowitz does too! and ummmm ummmm that one lady at TCA that one year and that one book author who was on the NYT best seller list and you know I could go on. It’s not a crime to be fully happy to enjoy Sam and Caitriona’s chemistry. And if that makes me a shipper, yay. But the only reason I’m actually a known component of the shipper community now is because you guys have dragged my name around and created ridiculous lies about me. It’s like I’m some sort of Shipper Legend (to you, not shippers) who does these super crazy Shipper things in AntiLand. Remember the grave story that was created by one of you weirdos because a family friend of mine who is a caretaker for a military graveyard in the USA was friends with Sam’s father? You guys turned it into: That Crazy Shipper Nipuna stalks Sam’s father’s grave in hopes of running into him and Caitriona making a baby on his dad’s grave in Scotland. Or something like that. Anyway, tour bus guides in Scotland think there are crazy Outlander fans who stalk Sam at his father’s grave but if they stop to think they realize they don’t even know if he has a grave or if it’s even in Scotland. You’re maligning the whole fucking fandom you freaks! You’re creating these outrageous, convoluted piece of fiction because you are all worked up about uhh something and then you tag other nasty people and get them to repeat the stories and then the stories get embellished and repeated and you sit back and watch the telephone game continue. But don’t you realize that you’re fucking the whole thing up for yourselves too? I mean, I guess not if you like chaos and mayhem. But most of you profess to care about people being nice and kind and cry out that bullying is bad and wrong. But then you do just that when you pick an Outlander fan and create detailed and convoluted lies about her behavior. The people you lie about know they are lies, sure. And lots of other people know they are lies and ignore you, but you repeat the lies over and over and you know that saying about how if you repeat a lie often enough people will start to believe you. So you repeat and repeat and then sit back and with self satisfied smiles. Or maybe it’s just that your mouth is open because you’re breathing through it. Whatever. I don’t know your motives. I don’t know what attracts you to fan the way you do. I don’t know what fulfills you. I know it’s not LOVE. But do you even know? Are you just running around half-cocked and brainless and letting yourselves be lied to? What gives? Can you help me understand why you are constantly naming and targeting certain people and pointing others to attack them and if that doesn’t work creating stories that will hopefully motivate them to attack? WHY???

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