#I had plans to draw his actual wings but idk how to paint feathers yet

[doodle17]

🩶💙🖤Just because you have wings doesn't make you an angel🖤💙🩶

I miss my boys, so here's one of em

Anthony you angst machine I can't wait to draw you and your fluffy butt more

[comicteaparty]

March 14th-March 20th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from March 14th, 2020 to March 20th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

How do you react to readers predicting your plot twists?

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Depends when they do. A page or two before it happens? Both of us get to feel clever. Yay! Months ahead? Well, obviously the thing I thought a a big twist ain't it, so I get to decide what other thing to focus on. I usually don't change the plot on reader predictions, but I can always change how a twist is presented from "Big surprise! Bet you didn't expect that" to "Well, ain't it neat to FINALLY have confirmation about that thing?"

Funnily, the best plottwist I ever wrote was in my now defunct comic. I thought it was obvious, but my few readers went "WOAH, didn't see THAT coming." So these days I try to just write the story and let the twists fall where they may.

Pistashi

ASDFPHIaewpf a friend of mine was reading my comic and he was making a lot of theories, a bunch of them was way off but he managed to be 100% accurate about one of his theories and I just started laughing nervously when he talked to me about it before it happened in the comic. This was years ago and the thing already happened and it's not a big deal anymore, but at the time I felt proud to write something that was obscure enough to not be on the reader's face but at the same time having someone figure it out after connecting the dots

I have little twists that happen in a more funny way, and it's usually used for comedy, and my readers seem to like it

but that's probably because of the expectations in humor coming from my writing style

which is usually bad puns and character reactions to absurd situations

and I agree witch chalcara, sometimes we can feel like we failed a plot twist when people see it from miles away

which is true, but sometimes even when they figure it out it's best to leave it as it is

I've seen a lot of writers fucking up their stories by changing plot twists that were stablished just because "people found out too early", and retconing a lot of the story in result

like, making a plot twist consists in creating some kind of foreshadowing

to make the twist not seem too forced and taken from nowhere

also to make it rewarding for those who searched deep for those clues

idk I love these little foreshadowing/clues we can leave for our readers

to make the twists even more powerful and meaningful

RebelVampire

I want to second a lot of the above. A plot twist should not be completely unguessable. Because if nobody guesses it, it means to most readers it's gonna feel like it makes no sense and came out of nowhere. The goal of a true twist is to have as few people as possible guess it but then when it's revealed, the reader smacks their head going "how could I miss all these clues."

Pistashi

exactly

Deo101 [Millennium]

Readers predicting things usually makes me lead with "oh no, I'm predictable!!!" And then makes me thing "wait, no, it means they're picking up on the hints I've left behind." Though sometimes it's predictable, like if someone guesses the actions of the next few pages, that's less of the readers picking up on hints and more just guessing right. But guessing big plot things, j think, is a reflection that I'm making things as clear as I need to, and I'm rather fond of it

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

99% of the times I am delighted if they guess the plot twist. I like it when I feel like my readers are on the same page as me (pun ...maybe not intended?) and see where things are going. Since my stuff is character driven, it tells me they can read the characters and their personalities well enough. However there was this one time when I had intentionally depicted something that was not going to be the historical norm (namely the p-51 mustangs' coats of paint on a cruiser in the opening scene of my WWII webcomic Brave Resistance). A war history buff called me out on it IMMEDIATELY saying "wait, these aren't how they're supposed to be!" and nearly spoiled the entire plot on page 2! I had to DM him to tell him to tone it down, and explain to him why the planes where the way they were. He apologized and stopped, but I'd wanted to throttle him for a while there

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I agree with Rebel re: the purpose of a plot twist. In that sense, though, I don't think my story even has plot twists. There is no moment anywhere in the story where I want the readers to go "how could I have missed all the clues!!!" ... On the spectrum of brainy vs hearty, my story is very close to the extreme end of hearty. Like, think of stories like The Little Prince or My Sweet Orange Tree. Even when unexpected things happen, it's never about the brilliant reveal. The most shocking thing in My Sweet Orange Tree comes out of nowhere, and it works for that book. Heart of Keol is a lot like those two in this regard. Not exactly the same, but pretty dang similar!

So back to the question, honestly? I want people to be able to guess. The usual bane of my existence is the opposite problem: people not knowing wtf is going on. My story isn't supposed to draw its strength from its surprises, so guess away (edited)

eli [a winged tale]

I love it when the reader guesses the gist of the plot twist a few pages just before the reveal. I sort of follow the novel structure idea that the reader should see what’s coming next right before it hits them, hence rewarding their investment in the story. Wild speculations without the clues I’ve planted are interesting. It does make me wonder if I relied too much on tropes or left too big of the crumbs. That being said, I’m not too fussed by readers predicting the general directions of the plot because it’s all about the character reactions. Could they predict that too? Maybe, to a degree. But there are a lot of subtext I try to write in my characters that give some nuances that I feel may entertain even those who guess correctly how the story would go. TL;DR: guess away. Love reading theories. The story is set so I won’t be changing anything big but perhaps layer the reveal with subtleties.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I've actually never had readers guess what's coming next. I mean, unless you count obvious, broad stuff (such as "the MCs get together"). I mean, it IS a romance. But in regards to big plot events, no one has gotten remotely close with their predictions (which kind of surprises me, because I drop clues everywhere). To be fair, I'm only a chapter in, so I guess it makes sense. But I am excited for the day when people finally guess

eli [a winged tale]

Same Cronaj! The predictions I’m speaking of are from my betas reading the entire script I love it when then go—- “omg this [plot point] must mean [reveal!]” .... right before the reveal

Feather J. Fern

If anyone does pick out certian plot twists I will be like "Yesssss people do think like me, I am not crazy" XD because most of my twists are all shown from the start through hidden background things so if people found them I am excited they took time and effort to figure out twists

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I love it. I haven’t been disappointed about it yet, and I don’t think I will be. It doesn’t make me change the twists at all - in fact, I’ve even shifted some story elements around to give the readers even more confirmation that they’re right, earlier on in the plot. I want to reward them with a treat, and now they can revel in their cleverness a bit longer Hee hee.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I love it too, but I don't change things to make readers more right like LadyLazuli does. Sometimes I'm tempted to, though! My readers have good ideas!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I like plot twists so I like to set a hint of them off early tbh (edited)

but I try not to make it too obivous :3c

tho for those who like to guess, I welcome it. I like hearing folks and their interpretations even if it's not what I'm going for too lol

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Admittedly, a lot of it is due to the nature of the medium. I know that webcomics take ages to get to major reveals or spoilers - I can wait to totally-confirm things, but I can't wait to... almost-confirm things? I don't want people to get tired or frustrated. I know I've gotten angry at anime shows that take 20 episodes to confirm something we guessed at episode 1, so I like when these things are all but confirmed early on. It can be really fun to know a secret that, maybe, the heroes don't know. It gives an extra layer of STOP, NO, DON'T GO IN THERE! in times of danger

But given my propensity to practically s c r e a m my spoilers to people who I can trust with the plot... a lot of it is just me bursting at the seams wanting to say YES YOU'RE CORRECT.

Patience and restraint. Essential things in webcomics

eli [a winged tale]

Indeed! So much patience needed I do love some excellent plot twists executed just chefs kiss

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Yes! I just want to tell readers, "Oh God, you're right! Good job!" But instead I usually respond with a ":)" or "I like this analysis!" Which I think is basically just confirming it. But if it's a real life friend? I cannot resist from telling them everything. I've even spilled spoilers in this chat before, trusting that most people here haven't read my comic. Kind of backfired when I reached a major plot point and someone commented, "She's been waiting to bust out this plot point for so long." Oops, guess someone did read my forum posts. But even if I did spoil things in the comments, is it really that big of a deal? I'm the kind of person where spoilers don't detract from my experience of things and sometimes even adds to it. But some people care about spoilers, so.(edited)

eli [a winged tale]

Haha yeah it’s honestly so freeing to just tell someone about the spoilers

Here’s what I have planned that will wreak the readers muahaha

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Past me could super relate to that! But these days I don't really want to TELL people? I'm not sure if that's because I've changed as a person, or if it's because this story is different from my previous ones. That being said, my patience is not infinite. I am itching to SHOW people. Can't wait to get to those Big Scenes

"Big" is a weird adjective here because they're very small scenes in some ways. Very intimate/personal

But... you guys know what I mean. The scenes that every longform webcomicker is dying to get to

Mei

Oh gosh, I agree that plot twists shouldn't be entirely out of the blue, since it's nice to have the hints that give people the crumbs to follow a trail. But like, since I write a lot of these chapters way in advance, and if I had the chance I'd love for them to be readable in one go as opposed to a page per week, I fear that I'm boring people with a predictable punchline? That being said, I get so many comments that predict the end of the chapter or the punchline or the joke. And I'm always like "haha maybe????" but inside i'm like "oh my god, they got me, THEY GOT ME"

Ohh yeah keii I get what you mean

the scenes you're like, checking your watch, checking your current pagecount, and thinking "soon I'll get to draw it, and it will be marvellous"

eli [a winged tale]

Oh gosh those scenes for me are at the finale

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH last time I got to one of those scenes (which was very recent), my anxiety skyrocketed because I was expecting someone to say something harsh. Because it happened in all of the previous ones. But this time it went well, so hopefully the future ones will, too?

eli [a winged tale]

Yay!

Deo101 [Millennium]

I think for me, I worry more than anything that it will ruin things for other readers, rather than me worrying so much about someone guessing right or me sharing spoilers.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Someone DID say something harsh, but it was right before the actual scene and not about the scene and a lot of people got fed up with their attitude so I felt like it wasn't my fault, lol

eli [a winged tale]

Ruin things for other readers? Oh like someone predicting correctly in the comments?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also yay! I always get anxiety about those kinds of scenes

Yes, someone predicting Something

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Well thought-out predictions are a lot of fun to read though, as a reader going through the comment section

eli [a winged tale]

I guess I stopped minding it and now embrace it they could be wrong or right and who knows until we get there~

Oh totally!

Deo101 [Millennium]

Oh I don't mind so much, but that doesn't mean I don't worry a bit too!

J like reading them for me, but I still think "I wonder if this will ruin it for someone else"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Occasionally there are problems with Korean webcomics that were originally webnovels? Because people who've read the novel version sometimes spoil things in the comic comment section, and that's not cool. They're not even theorizing, they're straight up spoiling.

Deo101 [Millennium]

:(

eli [a winged tale]

Oh no that’s bad

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But if people are theorizing, and the theories turn out to be right, that's all very fun IMO!

Mei

ugh when people spoil things it irritates me to no end. Let people enjooy it for what it is!

and yes!! that's one of my fave things too

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, every reader is different though. I have some people who explicitly have asked me not to share spoilers, and others who kinda beg for them! So I worry if some people don't like to see predictions (I know my dad doesn't like when I guess things in a movie)

Mei

theorising, discussing with other fans, just chatting about what you think may or may not happen

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes you even see comments like "Hurry up, Konans! I'm too tired to think, so post some good interpretations/theories!" lol (Konan as in the detective... in Korea, it's a term for hardcore theorizers in webcomic comment sections)

Oh, I think movies are different

I don't want any form of verbal remarks while I'm watching a movie

Or like, if I'm marathonning a show with my bro, we're entirely silent except between episodes.

But comment section is like, you have to actually go there.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Some people might be like that for comics, too. Idk. I'm not trying to say i don't like to see theories I'm just trying to think of everything that makes me worry about them is all.

And for me, the biggest worry would be that someone seeing a prediction would make them enjoy my comic less. It doesn't mean I necessarily think it's all that common, but I refuse to say it won't happen I think

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Personally, I think that's not an issue unless you confirm the commenter's theories

like I've seen theories for things online where my first reaction is "that's dumb, that would never happen" and then it happens

some people will latch onto another person's theory, others will reject it, but i don't think people will take it as a spoiler in advance

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yeah, theories are just theories

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I mean I know some people don't even want to hear other readers' theories, but if they are that extreme, they need to avoid the comment section on their own IMO?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

^^

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like... cool, I respect your preferences, but you can't hold me responsible, pal!

Deo101 [Millennium]

Again I'm not trying to say I don't like theories or I don't want them I'm just trying to think of all potential issues with them

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Granted, I'm one of those people who will scroll through the comments and read theories because I like to see all the smart people reveal the clues to dumb people like me

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can relate to that

@Deo101 [Millennium] Understandable! Just don't be too hard on yourself for things that you can't control

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Those geniuses that remember details from 30 chapters ago and somehow manage to connect the dots

Mei

Exactly! The comment section is there, but it's their choice to read it, and also like it's not your fault either? like they're not YOUR comments

haha in our RPG games sometimes people drop character plot hints way at the start of the campaign, and my friend will turn up, 7 months later, " remember when Character A said this? I remember"

and everyone's like "what the heck?!" some people are just detectives

they can see it, they see the matrix

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Anyway, I love when my readers theorize! I don't believe any reader has guessed any of the major plot twists in the first two books, despite there being enough evidence beforehand to make a guess (closest was "whatever zebugu's doing, it's not evil this time" but not the specifics of what he was doing). Though, if they had, I wouldn't mind, since that's max two years they gotta wait before the reveal (and that's assuming they guess it on the cover page lol). Book 3 is a different beast - strictly speaking, there's enough evidence for someone to predict both twists at the end of the book, right now. And... that may be an issue, given that this book will take over three years to reach those twists. So... we'll see if anyone guesses them. What's weirdest is when people guess things almost correctly with absolutely NO hints. And it's some super specific and minor thing like "Mizuki is secretly the reincarnation of a thousand-year-old dragon". Like... there haven't even been dragons mentioned in the comic up to this point. Nor any events from a thousand years ago. And like, that's not exactly the truth, but how do you get THAT close???(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

They see E V E R Y T H I N G

eli [a winged tale]

Sometimes it’s a trope thing? But yeah wild speculations can be so wild but so spot on

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

but there aren't any fantasy creatures in the comic, at all!

except a squid with feet!

eli [a winged tale]

Lol whaaaat then yea not sure where the dragon part came from then

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Sherlock Holmes readers lol

eli [a winged tale]

Yeah detective Conan lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

Joke gone awry

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

basically

Feather J. Fern

Well I mean I have crack theories about random people being random things too so...

I can see where they come from XD

sagaholmgaard

tbh I think my comic is fairly easy to predict as it has a pretty straightforward narrative xD but I don't have that many readers yet so maybe in the future! I would have fun reading people's guesses and predictions :D

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

AAA my readers right now are so accurate. They're so smart. They make me want to post my entire buffer right now and prove them right.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I wonder if anyone would be able to predict the next things happening in joe is dead

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I at least have no idea what's going to happen next but am looking forward to it anyways(edited)

🌈ERROR404 🌈

i know that it's only because TH is still quite new, and I haven't gotten to the meat of the story yet, but i like reading some of the really out there predictions and worries i get in some of the comments lol

AntiBunny

I will never tell someone if their guess is right or wrong, but if they do guess it, it probably means I'm foreshadowing well.

Then again I also find myself writing by the seat of my pants, so plans are subject to change.

kayotics

The original question mentions “plot twists” but I’m never trying to make a plot twist personally. I may intentionally obfuscate things, but I don’t ever try to do wild twists and turns. So when a reader predicts what will happen, I actually don’t mind, and I’m pretty happy that it’s following a logical chain of events. On the other hand, when readers are totally off base, I think that’s REALLY fun.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Most of my readers feel that my comics are twisty and surprising, but I often get at least one reader who correctly guesses what will happen, even if sometimes they’re joking or think their theory is wild and out there. Honestly it feels pretty awesome to have a reader shrewd enough to puzzle out the clues, because that means they’re really paying attention. I don’t have a very big audience and most of the time they’re silent, so anytime someone leaves a comment that is carefully thought out, it makes me really happy. As for the times readers joke or wildly speculate but inadvertently hit the nail right on the head, I find those very amusing. I really love stories with well done twists and turns, and so I try very hard to execute good plot twists that have enough foreshadowing to be ‘Aha!’ moments rather than ‘Where did that even come from?’ moments. So I love when readers are both properly misdirected AND when they pick up on the clues and deduce the twist.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Does my comic have plot twists? I don't really think about it. People have correctly guessed things that will happen in a chapter, someone even guessed correctly on the climax when a character named Daniel was introduced... well, it was more like "I hope things don't turn out like -blank-!". I don't mind, just because they guessed something correctly doesn't mean they know how the story will go for sure, it just means that they're theorizing and that is something I always encourage. I don't think that means the story is boring or predictable either, some people are just really good at that stuff. Even though I don't think my comic is very mysterious/unpredictable it's still impressive when someone pays attention to all the little visual and dialogue details, then guessing correctly about a future event based on them. Nothing more flattering than someone enjoying your comic enough to analyze it.

Lmao! I can't tell you how many movies I've ruined for people because I guessed a plot twist correctly.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Haha, honestly same. I’m not allowed to make predictions during movies or TV shows anymore bc I almost always get it right. XD Webcomics I find a bit more unpredictable, though, because most of them aren’t nearly as formulaic as mainstream film.

DanitheCarutor

Yeah! Even if it's not obvious most of the time movies go by a pattern or set of traits, once you learn how they go a film or TV show becomes a lot more easy to figure out right away. The only time I'm stumped is when the movie is really surreal or absolutely awful. That's the nice thing about webcomics in a way. I assume a lot of creators haven't had professional training, and we want to tell a story more than be entertaining to the masses, so stories are less predictable. They don't always go by a formula, which can be refreshing.

Capitania do Azar

Aw man I would love to have some theories, but for the time unfortunately I don't I'm always super curious about how readers interpret things given they don't have an inside view of things