#I feel like Rook is just there to witness the other characters' storylines

[kurosmind]

Veilguard ranting

I've finally locked in my Bellara romance and I don't think I've ever been less interested in a romance in game. And it's not because of Bellara, mind you, it's a problem with every single character.

I miss when you had to work for a romance, when getting the character to open up was a (small, but still) challenge. But mostly I miss when it felt mutual.

If you were friends with Dorian, you had more than one banter spent flirting. And when finally you got the first romance scene, it felt like a snapping of a tension.

Same with Bull, Cassandra, Cullen... And I'm just talking about Inquisition. There was this sense that you were seeing a different, hidden part of the character once you romanced them, and it felt so rewarding to weave it into the story.

Here so far... It's just out of the blue "romance dialogues" that are just different variations of "uwu I support u" to which the character never actually respond to (bless you Davrin for at least having fun flirting options).

I cannot tell you how off putting was to have the "express interest in romance with x" dialogue with people I never flirted with, especially have that in context when that was completely out of the blue and part of a different discussion.

And romance or not, the interaction between Rook and the chosen LI don't change at all, except for maybe a throwaway line about how "we're together now"

Devs said this is the most romance filled dragon age game. But the romance part doesn't seem much different than, idk, Fable, when you had to simply spam the heart emoji to get a wife.

Every single time I found myself flabbergasted by it.

And knowing the character will always be ready to reciprocate if you pick the romance option, even if you showed zero interest before that... Man it feels so wrong lmfao. They're not programmed to "fall in love with Rook" , they're programmed to react to a prompt. Bear with me ok? In Inquisition if you flirted with Cassandra but then got together with Dorian, she congratulates you but has a disappointed tone, because she's a romantic that thought your flirting was real.

Here you can select every single flirting option, then you don't lock the exclusive romance, and no comment is made about it.

[eledritch]

hey! are you playing the new dragon age? thoughts!

yes, I finished it!

I have.....a lot of thoughts, but what it boils down to is that while I'd recommend the game (it's generally quite fun as a game, polished, gorgeous environments, combat that is overall fun & dynamic, & it actually made me care about Solas so that's a point in its favor) and I think it's amazing that it exists after such a long & fraught wait, it was disappointing for me in several big ways:

1. I didn't like Rook's character (someone said it feels like a JRPG in the sense that the protagonist is kind of already a defined personality meant to serve as more of an anchor to the party characters and I agree; it felt like Rook got minimal characterization & development throughout). I wish we'd gotten to play Rook's origin story and/or had way more dialogue choices. The flatness of Rook as a PC consistently made it tough for me to get engaged with this game the way I have with the other DA games.

2. Yikes @ Taash & all of the nonbinary/trans rep in the game. I wanted to love Taash so fucking much, you guys. I could not. Every aspect of Taash's character fell flat for me (except their design, that's great), especially their coming out scene with their mom (I thought Shathann was a super interesting character and I felt like the game did not want us to like her, much like DAI wants you to dislike Dorian's dad...but only one of these parents is worthy of disdain). I think the game also does an astonishingly poor job at trying to make a storyline about intersectional identity. Don't get me started on how Qunari, particularly the Antaam, are portrayed in the game...

I also played as a nb Rook and those dialogue choices all felt weird (& sometimes viscerally cringe & HUH) to me too, it only felt affirming when other characters used they/them pronouns for my Rook and bro that's the BARE MINIMUM. so I was just totally disappointed and also confused as to how this happened, given that I've really loved Trick Weekes' writing in the past.

3. There is a lack of inter-party conflict and the romance leaves a lot to be desired. I do think that especially by Act 3 this game does have some ~Dragon Age Edge~ to it (I liked a lot in Act 3, big Mass Effect vibes...at the same time tho, why does a Dragon Age game have Mass Effect vibes?? They've always felt so distinct to me in previous games; less so here). But I get why people were upset that, for example, your Rook can't be a jerk or even critique other characters (though Rook does have a lot of dialogue with what felt to me like an unintentionally condescending tone). They do try to create a confrontational dynamic between Lucanis and Davrin but that felt forced and unconvincing to me.

Because of this, because I never felt like I really knew my companions' core beliefs or flaws, and I wasn't able to argue with them or change/challenge any of their beliefs, I didn't feel very attached to many of the companions. I do think Emmrich was quite well written, and Neve is good too, but I romanced Davrin and I gotta say, the romance in this game was weirdly minimal (in my experience at least). You can't talk to your companions whenever you want. You can't give them a little kiss whenever you want. This is a core aspect of DA games for me so it was a bummer not to see it in Veilguard. There ARE a lot of cool cutscenes and interactions between the other party characters, but Rook is just a witness to those, kind of standing on the sidelines or awkwardly interrupting. Which comes back to the problem of Rook in this game! (For me, at least.)

4. This game's approach to slavery or lack thereof is a glaring issue. I could write a whole essay on this but I won't do so here. Suffice to say: I thought this was handled poorly and in a frankly cowardly way, considering that this game was so big on inclusion and social justice. I played as a Shadow Dragon elf Rook and there was ONE conversation about how "being an elf in Tevinter must be hard" (DUDE...). We do not see slavery in Tevinter except in a few codex entries (one by Dorian which...I HAVE THOUGHTS) and allusions, random NPCs here and there, and "uh oh gotta help the Dalish," etc. Fenris's absence haunts the narrative HARD. This is a big problem and I haven't seen a lot of talk about it, but especially since slavery also existed under the Evanuris, and Solas is supposedly anti-slavery, the way Veilguard consistently swerves around slavery is wild.

Idk, it just feels shitty that they devoted the resources to hiring diversity consultants to write a nonbinary character (presumably, because most of the dialogue about that reads like a DEI statement) but they did not devote time and energy and nuance to including slavery in the narrative in any meaningful way. Although maybe it's for the best that they didn't, given how not nuanced a lot of the writing in this game felt to me.

So, yeah...some things I liked about it and I do think when it comes down to it, Veilguard is a good game, but it's not a great Dragon Age game, and it's certainly not the DA4 I personally wanted :/ I am planning to try to replay it and maybe my thoughts will develop more after that, because believe me I wanna give this game all the chances.

[vir-tanadahl]

I can understand, to a degree, why people like the dynamic between Rook and Solas.

Power Dynamics:

Rook and Solas: They are more on an equal playing field than Solas and Lavellan. Rook is a foil to Solas, leading to their interactions feeling charged with tension, mutual respect, or challenge. This dynamic allows for a sense of balance where neither character easily overshadows the other.

Lavellan and Solas: The Herald of Andraste storyline often casts Lavellan in a reactive role to Solas's secrets, creating an imbalance that can diminish her as an equal, especially when his intellectual depth and ancient perspective dominate their interactions.

Subverting Expectations

Rook and Solas: Rook offers a dynamic that leans more toward camaraderie (what feels like it anyway) , conflict, or shared purpose than romance or tragedy. 

Lavellan and Solas: Their relationship frequently revolves around heartbreak and tragedy, particularly the "inevitability" of Solas’s betrayal.

Personality Clashes

Rook and Solas: Rook brings out a more vibrant or combative side of Solas, offering snappy dialogue, wit, or banter. These sharp exchanges could feel more dynamic and entertaining.

Lavellan and Solas: With Lavellan, their interactions are generally thoughtful or diplomatic personality.

More under the cute, but the TDLR:

The romance between Solas and Lavellan in DAI provides a heartfelt and authentic look into Solas’s character that stands apart from his dynamic with Rook. With Lavellan, Solas shows vulnerability, shares mutual growth, and sets aside his Dread Wolf persona, building a deep emotional connection filled with love, regret, and bittersweet moments.

This relationship brings out the 'human' side of Solas, highlighting his struggles and offering a transformative intimacy that Rook’s more strategic and manipulative dynamic just doesn’t capture. Lavellan’s ability to see and connect with the man behind the myth makes their romance a beautiful story of love and redemption.

I want to clarify that, while Solas did lie to Lavellan about being the Dread Wolf, the majority of his knowledge stems from his real-life experiences rather than insights gleaned from the Fade.

Ultimately, the Solas we interact with is authentically closer to himself, as he had to set aside the Dread Wolf persona and his goals temporarily (again, the plan is always there, but he has to wait before he makes the next move).

Solas’s interactions with the companions, such as his the mind game of chess with the Iron Bull, were entirely optional—he chose to engage in those dynamics. He wanted to help distract Iron Bull.

In contrast, he approaches the Rook very differently. Rather than fostering true camaraderie, he actively maneuvers to ensure the Rook stumbles—not to completely ruin them, but just enough to leave them overwhelmed by regret. His ultimate goal is to use their failure as a means to justify swapping them into the prison.

If I break down the Solas we see in DAI and Solas from DATV:

Approachability

In DAI: He is approachable and engaging, presenting himself as an enigmatic yet earnest and curious figure. Solas shares insights on the Fade, elven history, and the world with a personal touch that fosters connection.

In DATV: He is calculated distance and cold resolve, shifting his focus from relationships to achieving grand goals. He becomes less accessible, more foreboding, and deliberate, with little room for personal warmth.

Transparency

In DAI: Though he hides key truths about his identity and intentions, he acts as a teacher and guide, sharing his perspectives and philosophies. His deceptions feel like protective omissions, often revealing moments of genuine emotion and vulnerability.

In DATV: He becomes far more guarded and manipulative. His words and actions are layered with strategy, designed to further his plan and long-term goals rather than build a true level of trust or intimacy.

Emotional State

In DAI: Solas seems less jaded, even wistful, with interactions marked by curiosity and a willingness to be challenged, evident in his budding romance with Lavellan or debates with companions like Cassandra and Iron Bull.

In DATV: His decisions reflect a hardened resolve, shaped by regret and a belief that sacrifices, no matter how painful, are necessary

Goals

In DAI: He is more exploratory and observational. While there is still strategy involved with him staying with the inquisition, there is also curiosity.

In DATV: Every action he takes serves his mission to restore the ancient world and remove the Veil. His time for reflection and exploration is over, replaced by a single-minded pursuit of his vision

I've seen it said that Rook is a better romance option for Solas because unlike Lavellan, they know who he is from the get go. So let me make something clear:

Rook does not know Solas better than Lavellan does. They know his history, his crimes, even his regrets, but what he shows when they talk to him is very much a mask.

Fen'harel is not who Solas is. As dishonest as he was about his past during his time with the Inquisition, he also came the closest to being himself ever since he took a body.

In sappy terms, he hid his deeds and plans from Lavellan, but not his heart. With Rook, it's the opposite.

Who we see in Veilguard is not some kind of "Solas unmasked", it's Solas who has returned to wearing the mask he was allowed to shed for a little while and hide the fact he'd ever worn it.

The raggedy apostate who plays mental chess with Bull, trolls Sera, beats Blackwall at diamondback, who nerds out about magic with Dorian and approves of helping every single hinterlands peasant you encounter, that's the real Solas. Keeping his past a secret is what allowed him to stop being what his service to Mythal and his people made him into, even if for just a little while.

[archpaladin]

The feelings I have over this news are so...all over the place. Absolutely, no one should be harassed over these decisions! And yes, it is indeed disappointing. But I'll admit part of me feels...relief?

rambling thoughts with potential Dragon Age spoilers under the cut...

Worrying about how the worldstates will be implemented in the sequel has always been a constant with games like these for me, prompting perpetual plotting out of what decisions my characters will make to ensure the best endings for each quest and NPC because it feels really shitty when a game's epilogue tells you "this person's life was throughly ruined and they died cursing your name because you chose Solution X for Quest Y." I blame the Orzammar questline for this, I feel like it deliberately keeps a lost of stuff vague so no matter what choice you make you feel like the rug was pulled our from under you in the epilogue.

I feel like with this arguably tight focus on only a few aspects from the previous games makes it easier to make decisions in the games without worrying BioWare's going to go "SIKE! The choice you thought was best actually ruined everything! NEENER NEENER NEENER, GRAY AND GRAY MORALITY!"

And I also kind of feel like, especially with Inquisition and Mass Effect 3, BioWare was kind of overusing Easter Egg references and memes just because the fandom demanded they be acknowledged: "Swooping is bad," Blasto, Enchantment, Cullen's presence in the narrative growing like a tumor, it felt like BioWare was more interested in trying to produce the next funny in-joke, a fear of taking things too seriously. And part of me wonders if, given how long it's been since Inquisition and how the trajectory of Veilguard has changed so much, it's going to be something of a fresh start, less burdened by needing to address every single thing and reference every single joke again.

I do agree that Solas kind of became a gravity well for the narrative and how everything in it started bending towards him (honestly, part of me feels like this was a problem with him from the start, even as compelling as he is), culminating in Veilguard itself being basically HIS story and that has me worried Rook is basically there to witness Solas, but I'm also hopeful that Veilguard just gives a definitive ending to his part in it so it can move on to other characters and other stories. Same thing with Varric too, I felt like BioWare was bending over backwards to keep him involved in events long after it'd make more sense for him to say "I'm done," and let new characters have some attention. At least Anders' return in Dragon Age II did something interesting with his character and showed how he changed, while Varric's changes are very, very small and debatable.

And despite what I said earlier about how anxiety-inducing trying to anticipate whether the sequel's going to go out of its way to make you regret specific choices you made, it is irritating to know that making that managing so many narrative threads CAN be done. BioWare's done it before. The whole reason they came up with the Dragon Age Keep was to facilitate that, and now that's going to waste. Inquisition was too ambitious in a lot of ways, but a game could be made to pick up on its threads the way it did for II and Origins. While they have learned that a tighter focus can benefit the game's plot, I am worried that Veilguard may end up TOO tightly focused, just dealing with Solas' drama and only that, leaving no real room for Rook to influence other aspects of the setting that can be elaborated on or explored in future games, a paradigm shift from bigger settings with more choices to make to a more on-rails story where you're not really expected to have "side-quests" or minor storyline that aren't directly related to the main plot. And yeah, a lot of times that can be pointless busy-work, but I *like* pointless busy-work if it shows me more of the world and lets my characters life intersect with more NPCs to make the world feel more lived in!

So...yeah, there's my disorganized, messy thoughts on Veilguard's storyline decisions. I remain cautiously optimistic, but I'd be lying if I didn't look at the worldstate selector leaked and go "That's IT?!" too. But people being *angry* about this? It's just a video game! That we play for fun! CHILL!

Folks, I gotta be real with you: Yes I too am disappointed that there aren't more choices carrying over in The Veilguard from the last three games, but I think the current fandom rage is a little over the top. It's not the end of the world. Can we just take a breath for a second and remember that this new game is set in Northern Thedas, where 99% of decisions made in Southern Thedas ten or more more years ago of course aren't going to matter, if you think about it? And on a meta level, I imagine the goal is to make this game as friendly as possible to brand new players, not out of spite towards existing fans.