#I feel like I want to go back to s1 with Dustin saying Lucas was Mikes best friend and how he was jealous in s1

[love-byers]

i fear no byler quote will make me more unhinged than:

"You guys think he's okay?"

"He's always weird when he has to go in."

"I don't know. He's quiet today."

"He's always quiet."

"..."

LIKE HOLY FUCK

the amount of depth this scene adds to mike and will's relationship despite only being a few seconds long is INSANE. my film student oomf @reo-bylerwagon has told me that it's a real strategy to find the exact right wording that adds this depth. there's only so many lines and so many scenes, so every last bit has to count towards something.

there is so much here

1. mike being closest to the camera while the others hang back

2. mike's expression being more concerned than the others

3. "you guys think he's okay?"

dustin is worried about his friend, but he's unsure. he seeks out lucas and mike's opinions.

4. "he's always weird when he has to go in."

lucas has noticed that will is noticeably different on days he has to go to the lab. but he reassures dustin. this is expected. will is always a bit off on days he knows he has to go in, because he hates it.

5. "i don't know. he's quiet today."

mike isn't so sure. will isn't acting the way he always does on the lab days. there's something else. he's noticeably quieter. mike suspects that this isn't just because of the lab, that maybe will isn't okay.

6. "he's always quiet."

lucas knew will was acting weird, but he didnt notice any difference in how quiet he was being. will is always quiet. that's just who he is. that's not a factor in his weird behavior, at least to lucas.

will is always quiet. every day. he is a quiet person.

there are several layers here that make it difficult to notice these shifts in will's behavior. he is a naturally quiet person. there is a known explanation for why he acts weird on certain days. and this is one of those days. no one else thought will was outside of his norm.

but still, somehow, mike knew that wasn't it. he noticed that will was acting different even on the day where he ALWAYS acts different. he noticed that will was being slightly quieter than usual even though he is ALWAYS quiet every single day. he knew this was new behavior. he knew there was something else going on.

but he doesn't voice this, he just watches will silently from behind the fence, clearly deep in thought. he's worried.

i'm sorry but why shove it down our throats that mike is more attentive to will than his other friends and clearly cares for him more and wants to protect him just for it to all mean absolutely nothing in the end? he is even more attentive to will than he is to el.

like how are they going to explain mike's behavior? cause like they still have to do that

"will is just his best friend" there's a whole scene in s1 where mike says they're ALL his best friends

"he's known will the longest" he also says he doesn't treat his friends any differently because of how long he's known them

literally what else is there?? is will just his extra special platonic bro soulmate???

ok so will was misled by mike's attentive caring and supportive behavior that was exclusive to him and developed romantic feelings. and mike is like that...just cause. this whole plot was just a tool to help will realize his sexuality and he'll get over mike and mlvn will be endgame.

a few problems with that...

WILL HAS BEEN BULLIED AND ABUSED AND CALLED GAY/GAY SLURS HIS WHOLE LIFE. unfortunately, and fellow queer people will understand, it's easier to come to terms with what you are when it's been spouted in your face your whole life. if wills love for mike was just to help the audience understand that he's gay, what was the point of all the homophobic abuse and hate crimes and all that? just cause? alright. noah has said will realized his feelings for mike "later on" but quickly cut himself off. will realized his FEELINGS, not his sexuality. will wasn't crying in the van because he doesn't want to be gay, or because he's coming to terms with the fact that he's gay. he was crying because he is deeply in love with someone who he thinks will never love him back. this isn't about self acceptance. will has accepted himself. he's accepted what he is. he's accepted his feelings for mike. that's not the problem. that's not why he's hurting. he's hurting because she's he's heartbroken.

like i'm sorry but it's ridiculous to pretend like you don't see how anything besides byler endgame makes 0 sense. bc it really doesn't and you don't even have to be a writer to see it

[pepstarvanmoon]

Someone please get El out of there

Is it not obvious what this is? Do you really not know what you should be doing? SAY THE DAMN WORDS.

Why do you think she’s doubting you? Can you really not tell?

Mike, sweetheart, your relationship balancing skills are a terror to your friends, family, and romantic partners.

This is why people found Midleven cuter in S1/2, because the day you made it official marked the beginning of El’s doubts in your feelings for her.

You cannot seem to grasp that El is your friend AND your girlfriend, and somehow treating El like a girlfriend equates to treating her like shit.

You cannot make this up. El needs WORDS because Mike’s ACTIONS actively make her feel unloved. She does not feel it, so she wants some kind of verbal/written affirmation because of how emotionally distant Mike feels.

(someone talented please edit Elmike to Hamilton’s Burn or send an existing edit my way, thank you ♡)

His actions do not align to her expectations of love, not that it’s a good idea to let TV define romance for you, but you’re allowed to want/expect certain things in a relationship, and El isn’t getting that.

And let’s not act like Mike isn’t good at making people feel loved/cared for. Will is in love with him for a reason. El loves him for a reason.

(It was difficult to pick scenes for this because I’ve read arguments for how these aren’t really romantic at all, but from 12/13-year old, “fresh out the lab” Eleven, it’s as romantic as romance gets imo)

El has been trying to convince herself that their relationship is better than it is, because once she admits to herself that it’s not working, what does she do?

Her day-to-day life isn’t that great. Sure, she has her new family in the Byers, but her dad recently passed away and she’s being bullied at school. She has no friends outside of Will, and while I’m sure their relationship is great (wasn’t explored that much tbh), he can’t keep her from feeling isolated, and his own trauma with bullying keeps him from standing up for her.

One good, unchanging thing she has is her relationship with Mike. He’s the one who took her in and housed her, he taught her what it meant to be a friend, and… I’m having a bit of trouble here lol. I was going to say:

Never used her for her powers (not true lol)

When she was burnt out, he never expected more from her (not true LOL)

Never treated her differently for her powers (for this one, he found her awesome in an awestruck way rather than a Brenner “I’m gonna exploit this” way, but when he thought she lied about Will/hurt Lucas he was on her ass lmao)

My girl has those ‘first love’ blinders on. I keep having to ask myself what she sees in him besides ‘first person to accept me + we kissed’ like besides the latter, Dustin was right there. A lot of the parts of Mike I enjoy don’t reveal themselves around El outside S1 (barely S2). He’s shown as caring and protective, but he’s like that for all of his friends?? Especially when they’re in danger so idk what’s different. I’d have to peruse the milkvan tag to get a hint, but I’ll probably get a better idea watching Sleeping Beauty.

I’m a firm believer that Mike kept it ambiguous because he didn’t want to admit what the real problem was to Will.

“I couldn’t tell El that I love her.” - simple as that. Must be something about Will that has him holding his tongue because after S3 I doubt he’d have that much trouble telling Lucas.

Are you embarrassed? If you thought it wasn’t that serious you wouldn’t have told Will that it was something you “can’t come back from”. Is love serious to you, Mike? Because you can’t love El in the way she wants, do you think you’re incapable of it? Do you feel wrong? Do you not want Will to know?

Hit a little too close to home, huh.

(and let’s not get into the "team, friends, best friends" scene they had together like what was the point in having them make contact a SECOND time.

They already established a connection between them. Mike could’ve asked to be a team after the "guess it's gonna be up to us again," and Will could’ve taken the painting offscreen (the focus shot of Will grabbing the painting gets me so bad like WHY), but instead they wanted them to blush and giggle over each other AGAIN before they got to the van.

Make it make non-Byler sense I'm begging.)

You’d think that’d be good enough, but Mike still feels conflicted and has to make it Will’s problem (actually, Will kinda made it his problem. The way they shot the triple take makes it seem like Will dragged Mike away for another talk because of how spacey he was being. Who knows.)

Tf do you mean you didn’t know what to say? “Maybe if I said that thing” so you DO know? It’s painfully cut and dry if you take emotions out of it. El wants Mike to say that he loves her, so to fix this, to come back from that fight, Mike has to say he loves her.

Why is it such an internal battle for him? If I were to take it at face value, I’d chalk it up to what he said in the van scene.

So your solution is to push your relationship to a point that has El crying and throwing all the loveless letters you sent to the floor? To tell her that she’s incredible and a superhero and that she should know how you feel about her because, despite the tears streaming down her face and her DIRECTLY asking you if you still love her, she must know how amazing she is too?

NEWSFLASH, Queerler! She’s learning just how much she doesn’t need you right now, so I guess it’s time to face your fears!

This isn’t what I meant, but go off ig (don’t, actually, this is awful for everyone involved).

No way you expect El to buy this. You’ve expressed this fear of "losing El" to Will, I’ll give you that, but nothing you’ve done IN FRONT OF EL has conveyed this. Your letters weren’t helping, and you being there in person only made it worse.

Eagerly awaiting the day Michael Wheeler stops lying.

Well, I guess he doesn’t lie ALL the time.

[noihavenosanitythanksforasking]

so this is based on my ramble in the byler discord but im gonna try and compress it into something readable n shit

So in the recent panel with my king Finn Wolfhard, my boy dropped a hint. A very important hint.

"The differences? Mike's a lot more brave than me. I don't think I'd be out there in a different dimension trying to save my friend and be in gunfights and stuff like that. Yeah he's way more brave than I could ever be."

A different dimension??

So Mike is going to the UD in S5. Im very unsurprised and im sure you are as well but lets fuckin talk about it bc holy fuck.

So I know this is the byler community but listen to me when i say, hold my hand and look me in the eyes when i say, I highly doubt that this friend Finn is talking about is Will. ESPECIALLY if byler is canon. Finn is very media trained and you can read legit anything he has ever said about the show and know how good he is about keeping secrets. If this friend was will we wouldn't have mentioned it. It's too close to the danger zone. He would have said something like 'i dont think i'd be out there fighting monsters and risking my life' or something like that. Which is much more vague and can apply to all seasons.

My theory is that this friend is max. CALL ME CRAZY. it could be anyone and I dont have exact reasoning on why its Max other than the fact that shes the only friend actively in danger rn and i adore madwheeler friendship with my heart and soul. But imo its def not Will and its not El.

Now if you go through the main characters there are only (if my memory is correct) 3 characters who havent been to the UD yet.

Lucas, Jonathan and Mike.

Other Characters:

El- Season 1 during the school battle (possibly sooner in the lab idk)

Will- all of s1 duh

dustin- season 4 with eddie

max - season 4 when she was vecna'd

nancy- season 1 in the forest or in s4 with robin and steve to kill vecna

steve- watergate and with nancy and robin

robin - season 4 with nancy and steve

hopper- im p sure hes been more than once but season 1 to find will

joyce- same thing i think shes been more than once but to find will in s1

So Lucas, Jonathan and Mike.

What do these 3 characters all have in common.

They are all a part of one of the main relationships that had issues in season 4. And what are these problems? Lets assess.

Jonathan is stressed because he doesnt want to go to the same school as nancy. He wants to tell her but he knows that she'll give up what she wants to be with him. He doesnt want to hold her back. Nancy feels shut out and afraid that Jonathan doesnt love her anymore. She wants to be together but she doesnt want to put Jonathan in a situation where he has to choose something over something else. They are having issues communicating.

Lucas is stressed about max because he wants to be there for her. Max is shutting him out due to the fact that she feels unworthy of his love or because she is scared of getting hurt and attached to someone. Lucas is hurt because he feels max doesn't trust him. They are having issues communicating.

Mike is stressed about about two people. El and Will. And for this brief moment we're going to look at this in a non byler pov. Mike is stressed about El because he doesn't know what she wants. He wants them to be happy but they aren't and he's not sure how to fix that. He also doesnt ask. Communication issue. Mike is stressed about Will because they aren't talking the way they used too. They dont tell each other anything anymore. They've drifted and Mike doesn't know what's going on anymore. Communication issue.

Interesting.

Thoughout the series the UD has been used as a symbol of all the hard things. Depending on what theories you believe (*cough* lonnie *cough*) this can have more or less meaning but lets assess how going to the UD has affected two of these relationships so far.

Jancy-

Jancy in season one was very tense. they were not friends for a good part of the season. They had constant issues with each other and fought a lot. Then barb goes missing. Will goes missing. They go to the forest in an attempt to figure it out. And Nancy ends up in the UD. Her going into the UD and making it out alive is the catalyst for her and Jonathan to get past their differences, to see each other for who they are and to put their pride aside enough to work together and appreciate the other as a fellow person.

Lumax-

Lumax had a lot of issues with communication and not being able to understand each other in the beginning of s4. They couldn't see eye to eye no matter what lucas did and max was very shut out. Then Max get's vecna'd and comes back. And then lumax finds the strength to communicate for the first time in the season, to see where the other is coming from and allow the other to be there for them.

So what does this mean for Mike. Well, both nancy and max had something that they we're struggling to overcome. A fear that they couldn't escape. Nancy's was barb and Max's was billy. Jonathan and lucas both have something they are afraid to express. Jonathan's is that he wants something diff than nancy and Lucas is that he wants to be there for her but doesnt want to intrude. All of these characters were pushed to solving these issues because of the Upside down (well jancy's recent issue hasn't been solved yet but ykwim).

Mike is going to go to the UD. Which is going to push him into a state of giving in on holding back his feelings. He's going to have to overcome something

El wants to be together, to be happy.

Will is afraid of his feelings, afraid of letting himself want what he wants and being hurt. He feels unworthy of love.

And Mike doesnt want what El wants. Mike loves Will but he is afraid of intruding.

So anyways thats why mike going to the UD means internalized homophobia thanks for coming to my ted talk i'd love to hear yalls ideas :D

[miwiheroes]

Dropping Byler Evidence Every Day Until Season 5

. ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁ Day 10: End of Season 3 pt 1/3 . ݁₊ ⊹ . ݁˖ . ݁

Yep, there are going to be three parts to this because there simply is just so much to talk about regarding the ending of S3, and I think it's one of the most pivotal scenes for byler and mileven. I'm going to start off by talking about the contrast between Mike and Will's goodbye scene versus Mike and El's.

Prior to this scene, we see through the whole season that Mike and Will drift apart due to Mike being in a relationship with El and prioritising that over anything else. The story really is about Will being sad that he's drifting apart from Mike, DND being the medium that it's being told through. Basically, DND is the symbol for their relationship and we see that, immediately, Mike is worried that Will is going to throw away their friendship/connection when he goes to California.

This whole scene is literally just a double meaning. It uses DND and childhood memories like that as a stand-in for how they feel about each other.

Will then saying this^^ basically is him asking if him and Mike will still be friends when he comes back to Hawkins and whether things will still be the same between them.

With this, Mike could just be asking if Will is going to make another friend group that he prefers to the original Party. But I don't think he alone is worried for Dustin and Lucas as well, they could have easily had a group scene, but this whole DND arc has really focused on Mike and Will, showing that their relationship is special, and that DND is more of a stand-in symbol of their relationship too.

He sounds worried and anxious, and this makes sense to close their arc in season 3, since it leads into the next season where they have problems about Mike being worried that he's 'losing Will'.

This scene is basically:

Mike: "What if you want to be friends with someone else? Not just friends, but have our specific friendship?"

Will: "LITERALLY NEVER. WILL NEVER HAPPEN."

This scene really erases any doubt that they're just gonna have Will get a new love interest, especially at the very end of season 5. This scene is just another scene to perpetuate the idea that Will is committed to Mike, and the fact that the creators knew in this moment that Will was in love with Mike, just proves that even more. Along with the quote 'Yeah [I] need you, Mike. And [I] always will' in S4.

Afterwards as well, the smiles they give to each other are literally the flirtiest thing ever I can't even watch it without getting some vibes I don't know how anyone could ever think that they are just straight dudes having a moment yea sure

Now onto my next point about this scene. The end of S3 has all these little scenes because they are transitions scenes from S3 to S4, kind of like at the end of S1 and S2 to show you which stage the characters are at in their relationships with other characters and what needs to be addressed in the next season.

There are moments where they try and show you that there needs to be a next season. The writers have these little moments with a couple where you think there's going to be a turning point, but it ends up being the opposite. Instead, one of the characters chooses the 'safe path' where they were at the beginning of the season, BUT things have changed in their character, meaning if feels a bit wrong/off.

This exact thing happens with Jancy in season 1 and it happens with Byler in season 3.

Exhibit A: Nancy and Jonathan have a moment that implies something between them, satisfyingly rounding out their arc for the season, but still leaving the audience wonder what's about to happen next.

Nancy then chooses 'the safe path' with Steve, which is where she started out in season 1, but her character has changed enough that we see a moment of uncertainty in her:

Exhibit B: Mike and Will have a moment that implies something between them, satisfyingly rounding out their arcs for that season surrounding each other and their friendship, but it still leaves the audience wondering if they'll be okay next season.

Mike then chooses 'the safe path' by getting back together with El. Mind you, when Mike and Will had the first conversation, he thought he was broken up with her. But now she's saying they're back together, which is where they started out in season 3, but Mike's character has changed enough that we see a moment of uncertainty just like with the Stancy scene.

After this, in both their respective next seasons, we have Jancy and Byler talking about the missed opportunities from these two scenes:

Jancy's is: "I waited" "Only like... a month."

Byler's is them talking about how they barely called each other and everything, so they're clearly similar and a very obvious parallel. I mean we even have the Stancy and Mileven arcs where one of them can't say I love you to the other!!

(also while making this my tumblr started to freak the fuck out what is HAPPENING CHAT)

[you-were-alone-too]

the aftermath of eddie's death & what it means for mike's arc in season 5

someone may have already posted a similar theory before, so i apologize if i'm super late to this, but i've had this theory in mind ever since the s5 set pictures of dustin and mike were dropped, and i've been wanting to make a post about it ever since. basically, we're going to take a look at eddie's respective relationships with dustin and mike and how his death will affect them both, but especially mike in s5.

in s4, the show made it super clear that eddie had a close relationship with the boys in the party, more specifically mike and dustin (since lucas is on a quest to be popular and joined the basketball team, we can guess this prevented them from being as close). although we don't get to see much of eddie's relationship with mike, his friendship with dustin is heavily established throughout the entirety of the season. while both mike and dustin value eddie for being a cooler, older high school boy that embraces their shared interests despite the fact that it makes him an outcast, the impact of these relationships, and ultimately, his death, will affect them in completely different ways.

while both mike and dustin value eddie's commitment to embracing his true self/interests, the difference in the impact of their respective relationships is that mike struggles with the fact that he's different whereas dustin is more comfortable in his own identity.

a great example of this is when eddie talks about how he remembers the first time that he met dustin and mike; he says dustin was wearing a weird al t-shirt, which he "thought was brave," while mike was wearing "whatever his mommy bought him from the goddamn gap". not to mention mike trying to "dress cool" when he visits el in california, being afraid of seeming childish by playing d&d and liking christmas presents, not to mention:

so what does this have to do with their arcs in s5, particularly mike's?

eddie's character represents one of the show's core themes: non-conformity. right before eddie dies, he makes dustin promise to never change. and when dustin tells wayne that he was with eddie when the earthquake hit, the main thing he emphasizes is that eddie never changed even as he was dying.

one of the first scenes that gaten filmed for s5 shows him wearing his hellfire club t-shirt, which is now faded and full of holes, and his hair is also grown out even longer (possibly to resemble eddie's hair, like mike in s4). in the picture of the party members' hands on top of each other, we can also see he's wearing (presumably) one of eddie's rings.

as for mike, one of the first pictures we see of him on set for s5 shows him with a haircut and outfit that nearly resembles his appearance in s1. after the beginning of s4 showed mike growing out his hair (which was confirmed to be inspired by eddie), playing d&d again, and saying he doesn't want to be popular, we now see him in s5 conforming back to how he used to dress. how his parents want him to look. normal.

in the aftermath of eddie's death, it's clear that as a symbol of non-conformity and self-acceptance, his death has impacted dustin and mike in completely different ways.

for dustin, he sees eddie's untimely death as a legacy he must continue. a vow he made to eddie in his dying breath to never change. and now, he's sticking to his word by embracing all that eddie did and stood for in life, almost as if he's trying to physically emulate eddie to become that symbol for himself and others.

as for mike, he's lost without that symbol. he saw eddie as a symbol of hope, safety, and bravery, a person that made him feel like it's okay to be different, to stand out, to not conform with what society wants him to be. without eddie, he's on the opposite trajectory; now that eddie's gone, that reassurance and safety he felt about standing out is gone too, and now he's regressing into the person that he thinks everyone expects him to be.

it's not that shocking since as soon as he's away from eddie in s4, he goes back to trying to fit in around el. but what's even more interesting is that mike seems to become himself again once it's just him and will in s4; although will carries himself in a much more subtle way than eddie, will also inspires mike to feel confident in himself, to feel like he can be different.

but before there was eddie as a symbol of non-conformity, there was jonathan byers. from the get-go in season 1, we see jonathan encouraging will to be himself, such as telling him "you shouldn't like things because people tell you you're supposed to." then we see mike get a similar, louder version of this encouragement in the form of eddie. both mike and will have role models that encourage them to be different. both mike and will feel like they can be themselves around each other in a way they can't with anyone else because they're the same kind of different. "i saw you on the swings, and you were alone too" "maybe i feel like i lost you or something" "hawkins, it's not the same with you." "you make [me] feel like [i'm] not a mistake at all, like [i'm] better for being different" "we'll go crazy together, right?"

even though will does make mike feel like it's okay to be himself, it's not enough to fully pull him out of his shell. eddie had that power as an older male role model that mike could look up to and admire. someone that could give him a look into the future and show him that being different on the outside isn't all that bad. but then, not only does eddie die, but even in death, he's still viewed as satanic and monstrous because he was openly different.

now in s5, mike is going to have to come to grips with eddie's death and the loss he associates with that. how he thinks that eddie being dead is proof that standing out is dangerous, that it's wrong, that it's sinful. he has a lot of fear to work through, but in the end, he's going to get there, and will is going to be there at his side the entire time, reminding him that they make each other feel like they're better for being different, so it must not be so bad after all.

[longtallglasses]

some miwi headcanons just bc ! older ones

i see young mike as kind of loud and not realizing how loud (and annoying) his yelling near people is (ie karen yelling in s1 “mike let’s go!” “COMING!!!”) however he quickly learns not to yell around will, adopting his softer voice for him BUT

in school he’s constantly calling over to will “will come here” “will sit next to me” “will! over here! look at this!” trying to get his attention “will, will, hey will…” other kids are like dude shut up… so many kids know will’s name who’ve never seen him, and mike’s thought of as that kid who’s always calling out for his friend.

i’m an avid rock collector!mike enjoyer. on the playground, in the forest, at the park, at the lake. he’s picking up all the cool ones, storing them away for very important scientific reasons like “this one’s shiny in A Different way!” he sets aside his favorites to show and give to will, very much in the style of a cat bringing a dead rodent to their owner, like “got something special just for you :) a Very Cool Rock :)” will loves how much mike enjoys it and is very excited to receive them, feeling quite special.

will loves stuffed animals (i mean we been knew) when he was younger they all had names and backstories, interpersonal drama and storylines he played out. two stuffed cats he definitely thought of as him and mike subconsciously, as they were best friends. he would act out little dramatic scenes of them running away from some oppressive kingdom, going on an adventure and meeting new friends along the way. … and he may have made them kiss a few times …

obviously small will loved drawing, but i don’t think he was always confident in his skill. after people tell him he’s good he gets caught up in trying to be really good, and gets frustrated when he can’t do something the way he wants. hence crumpled up attempts in the trash mike fishes out. there’s a spell of time where he gives up for a bit and jonathan asks why he hasn’t seen him drawing lately, and will says he doesn’t think he can get any better, it’s too hard. jonathan tells him it doesn’t matter if it’s perfect, he should just draw to make himself happy “draw for the campaigns, your friends think it’s so cool” so will keeps at it focusing on drawing what he thinks him and his friends will appreciate

while watching scary movies in the basement mike and will always held hands under blankets. it started when they were younger and they first got permission to watch a scary movie, they didn’t want to admit they might be getting too scared. during a big jump their hands reached out on instinct and too caught up in the movie they didn’t let go. when it was over they didn’t talk about it, but then it just kept happening every time they got scared. which led to holding hands when upset outside of watching movies. they never really discussed it, it just felt like their little secret thing.

all the boys were nice to holly but will was the only friend who actually liked seeking her out to play w them. (fascinated by a little sister unlike lucas and only-child dustin) mike and will would play games with her sometimes, will thinking she was really cute, and mike thinking it was cute will really liked her. cue karen thinking will is the best influence on her son

i have such a strong image of kindergarten miwi right after they become friends making mud pies together every recess. their teacher scolds them the first few times having to scrub their hands when they come back in. it gets so bad when the recess monitor sees them heading for the dirt they’re yelling “Michael! William! don’t even think about it!” they think it’s so funny to rile them up, they start spreading mud on each others arms “will you need more than that!” they only try to eat it a few times, it does taste really gross. after they’re banned from the dirt, they move to the sand box, it’s only a bit cleaner.

[milevenstancyendgame]

In Defense Of Mike

Sometimes antis inspire you to write meta - I don't know why, but today I feel like going through these Mike accusations that someone left on my Eleven post, lol:

No one talks shit about my boy Mike on my post.😎

-"And not to make this about shipping because El is her own person and should be discussed outside of ships, BUT" - goes on long ass shipping discourse.

You nailed it right there, buddy.😂

-"Mike babies her throughout their relationship":

I think it's so funny that those who are on the fence shouting about El needing to break up with Mike, to be independent, are doing exactly what they accuse Mike of doing (gaslight much?). You're willfully ignoring her love for Mike, which is canonical, projecting your own dislike of him onto her, like you know what's best for her. You're babying her.

So when does he baby her? I can't think of any time, but since you also said that he's protective and "El wants to be trusted and supported", I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you're talking about SOME scenes between El and Mike in s3.

I think it's funny that antis wave Mike's protectiveness over El in s3 as though it was some big red flag.

Like, ya'll act as though he wanted to lock her up in the cabin. Oh wait, that was Hopper in s2, actually. I don't see you hating on Hopper though, even though he's an adult.

Mike is worried and traumatised from losing El several times before. Yes, he doesn't know how to deal with this, but like you keep saying, El is her own person and should be respected as such.

So what does El do? She shows that she doesn't like it, and in an intimate moment away from the over-the-top comedy of s3, she tells him "I need you to trust me".

And how does Mike react? Did you actually watch that? Because it doesn't sound like it. He ACCEPTS what she says IMMEDIATELY, even gives Max an acknowledging glance, and backs off, letting her do her thing.

Like this right there. That's growth.

And that's him doing exactly what you say El needs - that's trusting, supportive, and letting her decide for herself. Which, by the way, he has been doing the whole time and continues to do.

He apologies to her and shows that he has been self-reflecting, and is overly hard on himself. He's aware that he was jealous and that he doesn't know how to deal with his strong love for El.

That's healthy and wholesome, and also huge for a 14-year old emotionally neglected boy, who has no blueprint for a healthy romantic relationship.

But no, you don't want to see this. Nor anything else, apparently. Just literally this ONE DAY on which he was overwhelmed and worrying about El. And you interpret that as "babies her throughout their relationship". That is…wild.

-"Mike puts El on a pedestal" & "Mike never compliments El's personality" :

Wow, this feels like the most unjust accusation of all. You interpret him thinking and telling her she's a superhero as putting her on a pedestal?

First of all, how can you do that, when you just said that he babies her throughout.😆 It almost seems like your various views about him are incompatible...maybe because they're not founded on reality...👀

He's the one who constantly reminds everyone else that El is not a machine, that she has limits, that she has human needs...seriously, have you watched the show? S1? When everyone saw her as a problem or a weirdo or a traitor or a monster or a criminal or a science experiment....and he was the one who treated her for what she was - a scared, friendless child in danger. An equal. A friend.

How come you're not hating on Dustin and Lucas? Maybe you're able to see how they changed? Or Max, because she's in awe of El in s2 and in s3 is 100%ly confident that she will be able to defeat the monster on her own? Maybe you're able to see that she had a normal reaction to finding out about someone's super powers and that she simply was mistaken? Or Steve, because he refers to her as "this girl with superpowers that we usually rely on"? Maybe you're able to see that this didn't reflect any dehumanising on his part?

Oh, but Mike is different of course.🙄

Mike never treats El as anything else but his equal. If he actually put her on a pedestal, he'd constantly be like: "Oh, but I'm sure El can fix it!" for every problem they have, and he'd be disappointed and shocked to witness her humanity - her flaws, her needs, her imperfections.

Well, he doesn't. On the contrary, he tries to provide for her every need, reminding others of them, is worried about her overexerting herself (which you hated on a moment ago, but now strangely seem to have forgotten), and never pushes her to fight for them. He's also always the one who wants to provide a back-up for her, to not let her fight alone or do everything for them (like in the caves in s2, or in s3 when they try to overturn the car in the mall).

Okay, and my personal favourite: "He also does this with Dustin and Will" So I'm guessing you're referring to Mike telling Dustin in s1 that his cleidocranial dysplasia is like a superpower, after being bullied; and in s2, when he tells Will he's like a super-spy now. And of course telling El that she's a superhero.

And you think this is bad????????

😳

Sorry, I just....HOW? He's literally reassuring Dustin that he not only accepts him as he is, but that his difference is cool, he compares him to the coolest people they know and admire, the super heroes from comics. He's trying to cheer him up after he got humiliated for being different. I mean...I guess if he had given him a hug, you would have found a way to interpret that as bad.😬

And the same with Will - he sees that his friend is barely keeping it together, he's rightly panicking, because he's possessed by an interdimensional monster, but Mike finds a way to distract him, invite his mind to see things in a different way that actually EMPOWERS him, reassuring him that they won't let the monster spy back, and again, this is bad, because?

Or do you mean it's only bad when he does it with El?😂 Because it's the same thing. He's trying to reassure her that she's not a monster, that he loves her.

And once again - when she shows in s4 that she doesn't like something he's doing (not saying "I love you"), he accepts that, he feels bad, and tries to give her exactly what she asked for at the next opportunity!

Apparently you didn't see that either.

And "he never compliments her personality". How many hoops do you want him to jump through?🤣

Mike shows that he loves and respects El all the time, he doesn't need to say "You have an awesome personality." for El to feel that. And she never expressed any need for that. Does Hopper compliment Joyce's personality to her face? Did Joyce do that for Hopper? Did Nancy do that for Steve or Jonathan or vice versa? Did Max say that to Lucas? I guess Lucas is the only one who really loves his partner, because he did that once.🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Oh, and of course, the whole monologue at the end of s4 doesn't count, because. "I love you on your good days, I love you on your bad days, I love you without your powers, I love you with your powers...I love you exactly for who you are."

That's somehow not valid, hm?

Mike can't win in your eyes, because you don't want him to. This is called scapegoating, btw.

Lastly, it's strange that you have a reference to him in your username, when you clearly think he's so horrible and accuse him of all this...together with a reference to Will...hmm...how mysterious....🙄🙄🙄 Almost like you had double standards for a certain agenda.🤔

*Drops mic*

[chirpsythismorning]

There isn't much discourse about how Mike went from saying that El was a weapon in s1, even encouraging the others to use El's powers when she was still recuperating after finding Will in the void, to then in s3 accusing the others of being reckless with her powers, saying she's risking her life for no reason.

Now, I want to make clear that I'm not bashing Mike here, this has less to do with what he's doing being right or wrong. What this is about is how Mike went from doing something himself, to calling out other people for doing it, without acknowledging that fact and why the writers chose to frame it all this way.

You might think it's insignificant, but these two following scenes are clearly being paralleled to each other. And so the fact that Mike himself is acknowledging this as something to be critical of, makes me wonder what exactly is going on in his mind...

I want to preface this scene from s1 by saying that Mike is giving very off vibes here. I know that I certainly viewed this scene as romantic the first time I saw it, but since rewatching it recently, I was getting completely different vibes.

They literally make a point to focus on Mike being distracted, on the verge of impatience. Then, the way El reacts upon Mike getting up abruptly, gives this feeling of uncertainty about Mike's consideration for her in this moment, as she's clearly not what's on the top of his mind right now. And it just makes you wonder, are we truly supposed to be feeling peak romance rn?

I never realized how out of place this scene was until now (or is it...). It's just such an odd choice to have El resting her head on Mike's shoulder for comfort, only for Mike to cut it short with him being distracted, and with Dustin and El looking awkwardly at Mike like "Okay?...", then followed by a scene where he's trying to convince the others to use El's powers to help.

Here we have s1 Mike displaying behavior that s3 Mike was calling out the others for displaying:

Here we have Lucas, who was very, very critical of El being dangerous ALL of s1, and yet now in complete contrast to that, he is showing more consideration and common sense for El's well being than Mike, the supposed love (at first sight) interest ...

'That's the most important thing, remember?'

A question, followed by Mike just standing there in silence, like he's only just now really thinking about El being safe as their main priority... This is something that combined with everything else unfolding over the course of this season and the seasons after, that makes Mike's behavior a whole lot easier to understand.

I'll have to make several other posts about this, because there are a lot of aspects to it, but for now I'm just going to focus on these two parallels.

Here we have what happens in s3, with Mike being critical of the others doing something he himself literally did in s1:

In fact, how careless all of you are.

THIS. When Mike makes it a big deal to call out everyone for doing something he himself has already done, he's outright admitting that it's something that he believes is wrong, and by not even slightly acknowledging his role in doing something similar in the past, it's very likely that he feels guilty about it.

This was probably his way of trying to make it right, by standing up for El in a way that he didn't before because he was treating her like some superhero and not a real person back then.

It's just that the word love slipped out, in the heat of the moment. And El, upon overhearing this, is seeing this development of Mike herself, with s1 Mike going from, yes being more kind and considerate than the other 2 boys in the beginning, but still sort of expecting stuff from her without her being able to verbally agree to it, to now having developed and changed to saying that one of his big priorities is her safety.

El is taking this as being evidence he went from not loving her, to loving her. Another reason why it's pretty obvious El didn't believe Mike's monologue, bc she herself witnessed Mike develop his apparent romantic feelings for her over time, and so him saying it was love at first sight, was probably the catalyst that made it abundantly clear to her that he wasn't being truthful, bc she knows it's not the truth. She's not stupid.

Again this isn't about Mike doing this back then or even the others doing it now as being bad vs. good, this is about the writers going about it this way, sending a message that Mike feels guilt, enough to try to make things right, but is apparently not ready to unpack the actual guilt that is beneath the surface which lead him to this point.

And then there's this scene, which... it's actually terrifying how obvious it is they instructed Sadie and Caleb to lean out of that shot with Will and Mike reacting to El entering the room... Like... It's SOO obvious when you watch it now what they're trying to hint at without saying it.

Not only are they hinting at Will's feelings, because that is part of it, they're also hinting at Mike's internal struggle. Will is always on the back of his mind whether he's willing to address it or not. And all while that is happening, he is feeling unaddressed guilt about how he treated El when they first met and spent that one week together helping her run away from the bad guys while also looking for Will, something Mike viewed as being worthy of El using her powers...

I'll have to make the other posts regarding this soon, because it all starts to click what's going on with Mike when you look at all of these things together.

While Mike is just a kid like pretty much everyone else in this story, and while he didn't mean any harm by asking El to help them find Will (none of them did), I think that's kind of the whole point?

I think that he got lucky superman landed on his doorstep, who just so happened to be in danger herself, giving him his own purpose to help her too, with her needing him as well, and so it became a situation where they both needed each other.

But because El could literally not speak, it's not like she could really voice her feelings about things they were doing, beyond yes and no. She had Lucas sort of being critical of her, with Mike encouraging El to do things that would make the others see her as being worthy of sticking around so they can find Will. It goes without saying she felt obligated to do these things, even if they didn't outright tell her she had to or else. We literally see almost all of these scenes with her doing stuff for the others being instantly juxtaposed with scenes of Brenner doing the same. It's not the same scale of severity, but it is an acknowledgment that although she is outside of the lab, she still feels like her powers are what define her and it's all people want from her.

I think what it comes down to, is that in that moment when she is sacrificing herself to the demogorgan at the end of s1, we are seeing in real time Mike realizing what he and the other's have been asking of her this whole time, without outright asking her.

And you can literally see the retaliation and devastation hit him all at once. The instant regret, where he's backtracking and El stops him from even trying.

'Goodbye Mike' singles him out, because while he was the one out of the three that showed her the most kindness from the start, he was also the one who at the end of it all, was still expecting her to risk her life for them...

And that just makes it hit so much harder when you think about how that made Mike feel in that moment.

And then in s2 how that impacts Mike and his journey going forward.

His breakdown at the end of s2 upon her return.

His behavior in s3-4, in relation to him juggling his relationship with Will and El, now that they are both in his life at the same time.

It all starts to make sense.

I won't go too much into it because those other posts are bound to be long with a bunch of pictures too!

But on that note, there's at least one thing Mike isn't acknowledging, and it's literally what led up to the unintentional love confession that then led us to 10 more episodes of miscommunication because of it...

It's going to be important for him to address this guilt for him to fulfill his arc and to also close off his expectations that he has to have a romantic relationship with El in order to keep her in his life at all.

The audience themselves seeing this and being forced to face it is also going to make it a lot easier for them understand why Mike did what he did, not only because he's a queer kid in the 80's who has every reason to doubt and repress, but also because he understandably feels sort of indebted to El after everything.

It's more complex than him just falling out of love with her and falling in love with Will because of XYZ.

I think there is a lot of guilt and shame and trauma connected to their meeting and the events that followed. And addressing that is going to give a lot of closure to the ending of the story and also the beginning.

[teambyler]

"Byler Endgame, One Episode at a Time" - s5e1

Plot beats and scenes leading to a Byler endgame, one episode at a time, for Season 5 of Stranger Things. (This is just for fun! I have no insider knowledge!)

Also see Part 0, where I explain what I think a Byler Endgame has to address.

s5e1

Since we’re going back to s1 themes, a shadowy U.S. government organization is involved. It wants to contain and study the hellscape in Hawkins. People are ordered out of parts of Hawkins. The Byers don’t have a home in Hawkins. Joyce stays at Hopper’s, with Jonathan too probably (Ted wouldn’t let Nancy’s boyfriend sleep in the house. He’s perfectly fine with “Mike’s friend Will” though!)

When Will arrives, he asks to stay in Mike’s basement. Mike says it’s cold and uncomfortable and he doesn’t have to. Will says he’s fine, he prefers a quiet place to do art, he likes that it’s where they played D&D... “We get to play D&D again, yes?” “Of course!” Mike insists on putting a bed in there, etc. Will is fine with the couch. The whole time Will is trying to be cool, trying to get over loving his straight best friend.

Will walks into Mike’s room, to see that Mike has framed the D&D painting and is hanging it on the wall. Mike: “This is a really nice present you gave.” Will’s in shock… does he know? It becomes clear Mike just thinks Will and El talked about what to put in a gift they were both to give Mike, while things were still good between him and El. “It’s too bad things went south so quickly…” Mike shares that he and El aren’t seeing each other. Will looks at the painting, thoughts racing… Mike says he doesn’t know what’s going on with El because after the pizza shop he thought they were official again, but she’s still being cold toward him.

Will sleeps on the basement couch, remembering their "Crazy together" conversation. He cries quietly.

After coaxing Lucas who’s spending time at the hospital with Max, the Hellfire Club play D&D in Mike’s basement. Dustin is the dungeon master. It’s a very feel-good, “the party is back together” scene. Will’s so happy to be playing D&D with Mike and is sitting next to him. In the game, Will risks his life to cast prismatic spray and save the group. The spell fails. In the game, Mike risks his life to protect Will. Will is blushing and it feels kinda romantic.

“A PLOT” SHENANIGANS. Will is rubbing his neck a lot and this is a Will-focused season. (There’s a million ways the A plot can go down so I won’t even try!)

School was disrupted by the events of s4. Bullies with nothing better to do target the Hellfire Club members, blaming them for recent events. Bully #1 lost a loved one when the hellfire opened. The party has to split up to get away from them. Bully #1 corners Will and says he hopes he gets AIDS. Will is terrified and once he’s alone starts crying.

Jonathan senses Will is really down. He invites Robin over. She arrives and kisses Vickie goodbye in front of Will. Will is shocked. Jonathan leaves the room, and Robin and Will connect. Will asks what it’s like to come out. Robin says some people shunned her, but others like Steve and Jonathan didn’t. She found out who her real friends were: “I got to have friends who love me for being me.” Will cry-smiles and thinks about this. Robin says to tell the people you trust the most.

Joyce and El are at Hopper’s cabin. Will looks like he's ready to tell both of them. But he waits for El to step out. Will sits down next to mom and comes out to her. Will: “Do you still love me?” She goes into Mama Bear mode: “Of course I do!” She hugs him. She's heartbroken to think Will didn't know how she'd answer. “Look at me Will. I’ve GONE TO HELL AND BACK FOR YOU WILL. I’ll do it again! I will always, ALWAYS love you.” They have a big ugly-cry hug.

FOLLOW ME for the next part of “Byler Endgame, One Episode at a Time”!

Part 0 (what a Byler endgame needs to address) Next episode

-teambyler

[alcalystrasz]

Here's the list of all my theories about Stranger Things 5 (not in order):

-Robin dies -> either to sacrifice herself (for Vickie or Steve) or she gets killed by Vecna.

-Max dies -> she doesn't wake up of her coma (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Robin's death).

=> After everyone starts to lose hope, they all get the courage to read her letters and they get determined to avenge her and the other deaths (even from previous seasons, such as Barbara for Nancy).

-Jonathan dies -> by saving Nancy or Will.

=> causes an emotional damage to Will, losing his big brother, the only one who knew about who he was.

-Mike and Eleven break up because Mike wants them to be just friends.

-Mike finally tells Will he's in love with him (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Max's death).

-Mike and Will go in the Upside Down (no reason in my mind right now, except it could be to find something).

=> They find Eddie alive (not dead because or the following reason: it's impossible to get killed in the Upside Down if you're not killed by Vecna himself -> Barb was killed by Vecna in the Upside Down since we see her in the pool she died, trapped like Chrissy, Vecna's mother etc. This could explain why Vecna didn't die when Nancy, Steve and Robin tried in S4). ((This theory is the least possible one in my mind, just so you know)) => he really dies though in the end.

Then, mostly everyone becomes a target of Vecna. Here's the list and the causes (why are they a target) and the characters that saves them (in order):

-Dustin is a target -> cause: Eddie's death, as he feels guilt for letting him go back in the Upside Down without him -> Steve or Lucas saves him because of their strong friendship.

-Lucas is a target -> cause: He feels guilt for not saving Max before Vecna takes her -> Max (if she doesn't die) or Erica saves him.

*Robin dies at this moment before the others gets targeted*

-Steve is a target -> cause: He feels guilt because he couldn't save Robin from the hands of Vecna -> Nancy saves him.

-Nancy is a target -> cause: She feels guilt because of Barbara and Steve being a target, but mostly of Barb -> Jonathan saves her by dying = she feels a second guilt and Steve feels guilt too.

*Jonathan dies at this moment*

-Will is a target -> cause: Vecna shows him his old memories (with his mom, Jonathan, Mike and the Party), but mostly bad memories to show him how his life is miserable. He asks Will to join him but refuses -> The music "Should I Stay or Should I Go" gets a door to open (just like Max when "Running up That Hill" started), and Mike's voice gets Will to escape Vecna's lair. He crushes his left eye before escaping (foreshadowing from Eddie during the DnD campaign in S4).

-Mike is a target (endgame, mostly end of episode 7 or beginning of episode 8) -> El saves him by fighting with Vecna but she still doesn't kill him. She gets hurt because he got stronger.

Now, the most crazy theory:

-Everyone finds a plan: Time travel.

=> They think, if the time in the Upside Down stopped the day Will got into the U.D, maybe he's the key of the U.D. Why? Maybe Vecna gave him this "power" because they're alike (sensitive, lonely, and good drawer). So they think if Will goes back inside, they can come back to the day he got kidnapped by Vecna and kill him when he was less strong.

And the Endgame theories (so episode 8 or end of episode 7):

-The Party finally gets back together and are going to be the leaders of the last episode.

-Eleven saves Hawkins by killing Vecna.

=> Parallel with the first season: Eleven gets Vecna on the wall, being ready to kill him but before that, she turns her head to Mike or the Party and says "Goodbye" one last time just like in the final of season 1. She then kills Vecna inside of the U.D creating a sort of supernova (because she erases him like the Demogorgon in s1, but since she did that outside of the U.D and she teleported them in it, and this time she's inside, this world can't support it and it makes a sort of supernova). This causes the U.D to get closed forever and Eleven dies, closing the possibility of interacting with the U.D from the real world.

That's it!! Tell me what you guys think about this, it's the main theories in big lines, some things a more precise obviously.

[love-byers]

I see byler. But it would make me feel so weird because Mike has liked a girl for four seasons and he has treated Will horribly, getting away from him because of a girl. I don't know, it would be pailful to rewatch the show and see all this ald later see byler being canon

i encourage you to rewatch the show because it is just flat out not true that mike "treated will horribly". if mike liking a girl for 4 seasons holds impact then so does the way mike has CANONICALLY treated will during those same seasons.

in s1 mike is determined to find will, believing he was alive even when dustin and lucas didn't. he defended will multiple times ("wait this is will's fault?" "i'm the only one acting normal here! I'm the only one that cares about will!", pushing troy down). he stayed awake in the hospital waiting room so he could go to will immediately when he woke up. he was the first one in will's hospital room and laid his head on will's chest. he breaks into a cheesy grin just watching will play dnd.

in s2 mike is extremely attentive and protective of will. he notices when will wanders outside the arcade and puts an arm around him to guide him back inside, he notices when will is being quieter than usual, he doesn't let anyone else touch will on halloween, he sees himself as will's protector, he comforts will by suggesting they'll lose their minds together, he jumps to will's defense over the dart stuff, he stands in front of will to protect him from dart, he is worked up over will missing school, he stares sadly at will's empty desk, he calls the byers house from a payphone because he's eaten up with worry, he goes to the byers house after school and bangs on the door calling for will, he holds will's hand and assures him all the terrible things he's going through are happening for a reason, he sleeps on will's floor to stay close to him, he sleeps in a chair next to wills hospital bed, he gets flustered when will remembers him despite having amnesia, he notices when something is wrong with will despite him not moving or changing his expression at all, he tearfully recounts the day he met will and describes it as the best thing he's ever done in his whole life.

in s3, yes mike is not a great friend to will all of the time, but it wasn't specifically targeted at will. he and el were being bad friends to the whole group over the summer. and despite that, mike is still attentive to will, noticing when something was wrong in the theater despite the fact that he's supposed to be paying attention to the movie like everyone else. he double checks that will is okay. he immediately back tracks and tries to keep playing dnd when will gets upset, even forcing lucas to backtrack as well. he follows after will when he storms off. he doesn't want will to bike home in the rain. he continues to apologize even though will is ignoring him. he compliments will's campaign and assured him he doesn't think its bad. he's extremely regretful after snapping and saying something hurtful to will. he calls after will, begging him not to leave. he bikes to wills house in a rainstorm and bangs on his door, apologizing and begging will to come outside and talk to him. he doesn't just accept that will doesn't want to talk to him and instead searches through the forest in the dark rain for him. he jumps to defend will and encourages the rest of the group to believe him about the mindflayer. he sticks close to will during the sauna test. he worries about will leaving him behind when he moves to california. he is delighted when will assures him thats its impossible. he tearfully hugs will goodbye. im not gonna go into the byler coding in hop's letter because some would say it's speculative, but yeah. mike was fucking devastated at losing will.

between s3 and 4 mike is eaten up by the idea of will not reaching out and making new friends. he feels like he lost will. he openly complains about joyce's job holding up the line because he wants to talk to will. he mopes in his basement and plays nintendo because he misses will. to him everything feels weird because will isn't there. hawkins no longer feels like home because will isn't there. he loves his other friends but finds that there's something different about what he feels towards will.

then in s4 mike does start out being a dick towards will. or at least it looks that way. it seems like mike doesn't want anything to do with will, but later on he flat out admits that that wasn't the case at all. he was still being highly attentive to will, analyzing his facial expressions and demeanor and hoping will to talk to him. will didn't ruin mikes day by being too involved in his date with his girlfriend, he ruined it by not being involved. he stays close to will after el hits angela, literally shoulder to shoulder with him. he seeks will out to apologize to him and let him know he didn't deserve the way he'd been treated, and goes on to tell him how much he'd missed him and how he was afraid he'd lost him. he wants them to be best friends again. he wants he and will to be a team through whatever happens next. he is overjoyed when he thinks will made a painting for him. he assures will that they will kill vecna together and puts a comforting hand on his shoulder (despite the fact that he was too s scared to hug will 5 days earlier). he stays at will's side when the world is ending right before their eyes.

i truly truly do not understand why people say will deserves better than mike because the entire fucking point of their dynamic is that he handles will with much more care than he does others. im sorry but it really just sounds like an excuse to say byler bad without sounding problematic because the truth is that you just don't want mike to be queer. mike is very tender and caring with will and trusts him above anyone else. will is the same way towards mike. and he is devastatingly in love with mike. mike who has done everything stated above for him. why would they not be a good match? why does will not deserve the person he feels understands him better than anyone else, the person who makes him feel loved and special in a word turned against him? bffr

and about mike getting away from will because of a girl, this is a very common trope in childhood friends to lovers stories. that is what deepens the relationship between the two friends. the jealousy, the pining, the emotionally charged arguments. one of the friends usually doesn't realize what they have until they are faced with losing it. hello, s3 epilogue! the love triangle dynamic has already been used multiple times in stranger things. nancy genuinely did have romantic feelings for steve even when she got with jonathan. joyce had genuine romantic feelings for bob despite the fact that she was clearly in love with hopper. the writers have clearly shown that love is something entirely separate from attraction, and that it's easy to get lost along the path to it and get those feelings mixed up. why would it be any different for mike? especially if he's queer and in love with a boy? that makes everything 100x more confusing. especially if he's bisexual because the world back then conditioned people to think there was only homosexuals and 'normal' people. it would be so difficult for mike to figure everything out if his romantic feelings towards el are very much real, because he doesn't think he can have both. he feels caught between two slides, as one might say.

so yeah rewatch the show with an open mind and i promise you it will not make you feel weird, it will actually make a whole lot more sense. and if it does make you feel weird then i think you need to address an underlying attitude towards gay people. im not flat out calling you homophobic, it's very easy to be biased and not even know it when the world is as heteronormative as it is. just try to have an open mind

[pepstarvanmoon]

I really wonder what GAs think about Mike’s overall storyline in S3 and how it extended into S4.

When I first started S3 (I didn’t start shipping Byler until the rain fight and didn’t go deeper into the fandom until after finishing S4), I didn’t really care about what Mike had going on.

He was being a typical teen with their frustrating and dismissive ways, but I wasn’t really bothered by it? I didn’t really care until it started to feel sort of shoved in my face? Like being late to the theater, ditching Dustin on his first day back, everything with Hopper tbh, lying to El, advice from Lucas, not playing DnD to look for gifts at the mall, the break up, not playing DnD (again) to wallow in self-pity and to be gross boys lol (part of that scene is just so El and Will can react to Mike being gross like why).

By the time we got to “they’re conspiring against me!” I started rolling my eyes every time Microbial’s relationship issues became the focus of a scene. It was starting to piss off other characters, too, so I felt kinda justified in how little I cared.

Then the store scene where they’re patching up El’s leg and Mike struggles (badly) not to SAY “I love you” to her face, but to somehow get her to say it for him? (Like some weird school lesson trying to get students to find the answer without outright saying it like it’s a curse or something. This show has never needed I love you’s to convey that a couple is in love, so this whole thing felt unnecessary to me my first watch). I remember sitting there wondering why I should gaf about this plotline at all. It was so drawn out for what felt like no reason, and it didn’t seem to be going anywhere? “I know that I…” Are you sure you know, Mike? Like say it or move on.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it really had no impact until they force you to remember it during the move out scene where El says she loves him too (weird btw seeing as we got the “I love her and I can’t lose her again!” BEFORE the “you’ve never heard that term…?” I guess it was to have a ‘funny’ scene after that first encounter with ther meat flayer? Idk maybe I need to rewatch S3)

I guess they left it open ended after that uncomfortable kiss scene because it’s clearly still an issue in S4, but in my initial watch, more than it not making sense to me, I just sort of found it boring? It might’ve just been my bias because I started to enjoy Will and El’s characters more than Mike’s at the time, and Madraosis’ constant (and minuscule) problems were making them both miserable. To have it pick up again in S4 annoyed me because the S3 finale made it seem like their relationship was okay, but… did they really resolve anything?

Honestly, my biggest gripe was it being included at all. It felt unnecessary and boring at the time, but if they’re gonna keep pushing Mike’s inability to say “I love you” and function normally while in a relationship after all that bs in S3, it better be for a decent reason. It was no longer as cut and dry as I thought when I watched S4, and it’s difficult to grasp that a lot of people watching the show still think this way.

I mean, just imagine Nancy spending a whole chunk of S2 trying to convince/tell Steve she loves him and treating Jonathan like an afterthought before they get together that SAME season (like a romantic and less traumatizing spin on what happened with Barb (RIP), where they clearly demonstrated how bad it was that Nancy was getting swept up in her relationship with Steve).

Nancy getting back with Steve at the end of S1 was annoying for a lot of people, but more of an “eh, whatever” until they started having problems again in S2. Why is it literally the same storyline?? It’s pretty blatant, too. I hardly see any GA really questioning it, and if they do it’s always chalked up to bad writing (which… yeah). If it’s not because Mike and El are having legitimate problems, or about Will’s confirmed feelings, then what do the Duffer’s want me to think?

(first post but I've been lurking here so long it doesn't feel like it.)

[do-u-know-this-autisticcharacter]

Do You Know This (non-canon) autistic Character?

Propaganda:

This Tumblr post. Which says (if you can't see it)

"why mike wheeler is autistic

these are some of my thoughts on why i think mike wheeler is autistic. 

he has narrow special interests (dnd, science, writing)

he only has a couple of friends, also with the same interests as him (it is common that autistic people have a difficult time making friends)

he hates change (he didn’t like the addition of max into the group without being made aware of it first, instead of using highschool as an opportunity to be someone else like lucas did he went back to doing things that brought him comfort like dnd, he’s always the first to notice when something is off with will (him missing/being possessed))

he is very logical (dustin and lucas ask why they can’t just let his mom deal with el when they find her in s1 and mike reasons that they’ll get caught for sneaking out so they have to handle it themselves, he rationalizes most of the plans in the party (in s3 when lucas says they win if they get the mindflayer out of billy mike reminds him that they wont because it didn’t work with will, jonathan thinks he’s ridiculous for wanting to go to suzie for help in s4 but mike reasons that she is the smartest person they know)) he also doesn’t budge much on his thoughts when it comes to this

he has a difficult time with his emotions (he mixed up romantic and platonic feelings with el, he also didn’t know how to properly confront her about this when he realized), he becomes overly emotional often (when he realized hopper knew el was alive the whole time and he got angry and broke down)

he is a people pleaser (he cares a lot for his friends, especially will and el, which is why in s4 he kept pretending he was in love with el because it’s what he thought she wanted, and why he hid how will leaving affected him because he didn’t want to make their friendship awkward with his newly realized feelings)

he’s not bound to societies standards (to a degree) (why he continues to play dnd even though he gets made fun of and why the upside down wasn’t a difficult concept for him to grasp because to him it made sense easily) 

he misses sarcasm (s4 at suzie’s house)

he misses double meanings to things (his conversations with lucas in s3 about el, he took most of what he said literally)

he is very blunt (often he is quick to tell things how it is even if someone gets upset with him)"

[thestrangestthing89]

This is an add on to my post about how something happened with Mike and Will when they were younger. I said this a bit in the replies but I've been thinking about it more and it makes a lot of sense.

I think Mike has told Will he loves him before and it's part of the reason why he's struggling so much to say it to El. There is a lot going on in the scene in season 3 when he blurts it out. We have seen Mike in the past say things he doesn't mean when he feels defensive and/or scared (It's not my fault you don't like girls). He's fighting with Max here and getting upset about the girls spying on him when he says he loves El. Right after he says it he is immediately confused and he looks back a Will a few quick times. Not only that but Jonathan immediately looks at Will and Will looks down and avoids eye contact. When Lucas tells El they are having a family discussion, Nancy and Will look at each other. I wouldn't be surprised if Nancy and Jonathan both have always known something is going on with them. I always took Nancy's comment in S1 about Mike liking El to be her also being oblivious like Lucas and Dustin and making assumptions. But maybe she was just trying to figure out what was going on with Mike. She does assume he was being weird because of Will. It's also possible she didn't mean "like" to mean he was crushing but just like her as a person. Mike takes it to mean he has a crush because everyone else has been assuming as much.

There is a lot going on here that to me suggests Mike was not only immediately regretting what he said but that he never thought about his feelings for El before. He surprised himself when he said this and he can't bring himself to say it again. When he tries to explain his feelings in the supermarket he fumbles and can't say the words. This scene reminds me of the conversation they have in S1 when Mike is trying to explain the Snow Ball to her. He can't explain himself well when he's not being honest. In both situations he is doing something he doesn't want to do and he's doing it because everyone else thinks he has feelings for her. He's doing what he thinks people expect him to do but he can't say it. He accidentally said it about her once and he can't say it on purpose. The way he avoids the word "love" here is interesting. He can't bring himself to say it even though he just had. He spends the next several months avoiding the word in letters to the point where it is noticeable to El. When she confronts him he still can't say it. Not only that, but Mike brings up his fight with El to Will several times but he doesn't actually tell him what they fought about. It's like he's prompting Will to ask. It seems like Mike wants to tell him that he couldn't tell El he loves her. He wants to talk about this with him. But Will is in self-preservation mode and isn't asking.

When he actually does say the words to her it's because he's put into a position where he has to say something and he doesn't know what else to say (again blurting things out he doesn't mean when he is scared). For most of the scene Will shown behind Mike - he's in the back of Mike's mind. I don't think Will's reactions here are simply to show that Will loves Mike but also Mike's true feelings as well. I think Mike has only ever said this to Will and those feelings are only for Will and it's part of the reason why he distances himself from El so much.

[will80sbyers]

Brenner said this about Will and Henry

meaning Henry was afraid of being isolated and treated as a joke by the people around him because he was different too, like Will, even if in a different way than Will... he can go inside his mind and manipulate him way better because they both are afraid of being rejected for who they are

Instead in the game it's said that he can't possess Mike, Lucas and Dustin because they had less trauma at the time even if they had some fears like Will, it doesn't work because Vecna doesn't understand how to relate to them as he did with Will's mind and also they said that meeting Eleven made them feel optimistic like they can fight back even these big scary things because they have this "superhero" on their side and did it once before, Will wasn't there to see El at work in S1

So the things they are scared of in the game for me are all real things that plague them but Vecna can't "relate enough" and they have a more positive idea (?) of life than Will has, they are more optimistic basically

Mike being afraid that he lost El forever and will never find her again ( we see how he was missing her a great deal after season 1 and losing her left him heartbroken )

Lucas being afraid that he's always going to be judged for the colour of his skin first and he's never going to achieve something great if he keeps hanging out with "the nerds" (clearly all the trauma from racism and the bullying)

and Dustin being afraid his best friends don't think of him with the same care as he thinks of them (we saw how in S1 he thought that Mike didn't think of him as a best friend and in S3 he thought they forgot about him coming back from camp)

All of these are real fears they have after S1 and I feel that these are only getting stronger with the years going by and plus they are adding other fears to the mix that are heavier and deeper than these ones and those are the fears Vecna needs to find out to attack them in season 5

But we saw how Lucas's fear of always being looked as different in season 4 transformed in him saying he doesn't want to be "normal" anymore and I feel like his only real fear now is not being able to help Max maybe

Dustin will be obviously tortured about Eddie and how he was put before anything else for one of his friends to the point he gave his own life to save Dustin's life (like Mike tried to do in S1 btw) so Dustin's fear is sort of changed to the feeling of guilt I think

Mike's fear of losing Eleven is also born from his general fear of not being needed and losing all of the people he loves, and I also think he has the same fear as Will about being rejected for who he is, only I think he thinks it's because he's not cool enough at the moment... and he will discover he is different too but I think he's gonna be more ok with it than Will is

obviously homophobia has a weight on his mind too, he will want in part to repress it

but the main thing for Mike is that the dynamics of his relationships changing scare the shit out him because he doesn't want to lose any of them...

I think his need to repress his feelings for Will is born from this fear of change more than fear of being seen as gay/queer

Because change means things can end up being different... (Himself included😏😏😏😏)

and his relationships can shift one way or another

Will could want to go on without him in life and leave the Party to join a different one where he has new friends and even a girlfriend that he makes art for instead of making it for Mike

El can think he's just a random nerd and not want him in her life ever again if they are not in a relationship and she doesn't need him as a support, in his mind she's only with him because he found her and helped her not because she wants him

Lucas could join the basketball team and decide he doesn't want to be in the Party anymore and leave Mike too

Dustin is always growing closer to people like Steve and this could mean he's gonna leave too at one point

Mike wants to keep the status quo not because it's what he actually wants in his life...

but because he thinks that if things change they can change for the worst and he could lose ALL of them.

He's afraid of things changing to the point he wants things to be stuck in time and for the clock to turn back to when his friends needed him too and his connection to all of his friends was stable and it seemed like he could never lose them for one reason or another... He needs all of his friends so much and he somehow started to think that now they don't need him at all