#I do think it would be a really neat scene for Thistleclaw and some others to go looking for Tigerstar in the Dark Forest

[bonefall]

I feel he shouldn't have been in the Dark Forest though not because he doesn't "deserve" it but for the same reasons you don't like Spottedleaf's Heart: his xenophobia is tacitly approved by the living Clans so it makes no sense dead Clan cats would all have the "right" views and condemn him. Not to mention how it ruins the "not disloyal" aspect of his character. by having him cackling about destroying ThunderClan along with the other Clans.

@halogenwarrior

See, even canonically, I would actually have him in the Dark Forest!

But not because of his xenophobia. Because of his spite.

I would put him there by a thin margin with StarClan. In fact, his xenophobia and aggression was a positive trait in the eyes of StarClan. But that's not his only trait.

He's disobedient (undermining Bluestar), irreverent of StarClan (training in the Dark Forest), and a bully. He's spiteful, so much so that he abandoned his own son when he felt like Bluefur 'corrupted' him.

I can even see it in my head. A trial going by a slim margin, a ruling JUST about to let him pass through, and then Snowfur comes up with Mosskit. And he SNAPS.

Calling this poor thing a half-clan creature, that Bluestar weakened the clan by not knowing her place, that she was even infecting StarClan itself with her code-breaking bloodline. That he expected better of Snowfur. His own malice and hubris, in the end, is what sends him to Hell with his demon buddies.

Or, even,

That he goes there of his own volition, when he realizes that StarClan does approve of Bluestar. That it isn't a StarClan just for him, it's a StarClan for her too. That he refuses to spend his afterlife playing second fiddle to her, like he did even while he was alive.

I'm even fond of the old, "Bluestar chases him out of StarClan" idea. That Thistleclaw, and a not-insignificant number of his buddies, leave when they see the values of StarClan changing. All because of Bluestar and her Kittypet.

[justapigeonn]

i know mapleshade being overused is no hot take in the warriors fandom anymore but you can't imagine my disappointment to find out later in the book that this voice in tigerclaw's head was never simply just his own self criticism but just mapleshade being mean to him for some reason

it would've been so interesting to see that despite how cruel he was to those around him, the one he was cruelest to in the end, was himself - that thistleclaw's brutal treatment really stuck with him in more ways than one, that he considered himself a failure if he did not push his ambitions to their very limits and succeed at what the mentor he both respected and resented failed and would not dare to do.

i also love that despite it's minor failings, this book also gives us a slight layer of nuance to his character - that despite him being a despicable character till the very end, willing and ready to kill and manipulate his way to the very top, there's still a hint of discomfort and remorse at the possibility of his former clanmates dying in the forest fire

he excuses his discomfort to mapleshade as him not being able to destroy them himself, but the horror and dread he feels is evident.

despite us knowing very little about their overall relationship, later on he's relieved to see that his former mate goldenflower is unharmed. given that we're never shown or told of any instances where's they're openly affectionate towards one another and he doesn't technically have any 'need' for her to survive (i say this with the assumption that the only big reason that tigerclaw even had kits to begin with was for a legacy and an ongoing bloodline, not for a happy family and out of sheer undying love for goldenflower), it's bizarrely sweet to me that he finds comfort in knowing that she escaped the fire, along with their daughter tawnykit.

and then, of course, the famous bramblekit scene where fireheart snatches him from the tree and the two barely escape with their lives.

this book, despite showing him committing numerous despicable actions and murder innocent cats in cold blood through his own eyes manages to give tigerclaw just a shred of humanity and care for those he once held close(ish), that despite him denouncing starclan again and again, he still whispers a silent thanks to them for saving the life of his son, that, despite his sheer undying hatred for fireheart, he puts his own pride aside for a brief moment and silently entrusts him with bramblekit's life.

when tigerclaw gave strict orders to the other shadowclan warriors to not follow him into the fire, he did so knowing that they could've seen him at his very worst - his absolute lowest point. he knew there was a large possibility that he could've easily been witness to the violent ends of his former mate and kits and lost himself there and then and potentially (in his eyes) lost the respect of his new clanmates as well, because to him in a sense, caring is a show of weakness, even for him. and idk there's just something weirdly nice about that - that despite how horrible he is there's still some depth and remorse to be found in his character and idk i just think that's neat

[blimbo-buddy]

OK so I’m gonna have to give some context behind what I’m about to do with scourge and tigerstar.

so in the fate of flames when tiny ran off and explored the thunder clan border, her mom actually found her and try to get her back to the house, but the thunderclan patrol found them, and in trying her best to protect her (then) son she was striked down by thistleclaw right in front of her, tiny tries to grieve over her mothers body before she is sliced in the face by tigerpaw. blinding her in one eye. and the blind eye is a remind her of that day. The day of the clans had took her mother life away. the day she was helpless to save her.

(now that’s the context to why she has a personal history with the clans)

the reason in this to why she accepts tigerstars deal because it’s a genuine interesting deal to have. And if he backstabs her, she can easily dispose of him and the scene happens and she exactly what she does in canon but except this time instead of him, losing all nine of his lives all at once. He’s basically down to five. But still losing that many life still incapacitates him.

She’s confused about how he even survive that she hears murmurs from the cleanse about how he’s down to five lives. She takes a guess, and it clicks.

He has multiple lives. Images of her mom’s dead body flashes in her mind.

The pain, the grief, the anger it all comes back to her.

a thought flashes in her mind “if he has multiple lives, then he can endure more pain than others” then orders multiple of her men to essentially take tigerstar hostage. she wants to prolong the pain he has inflicted on others. right back at him. slowly and painfully.

one of the bloodclan members say “so you’re helping him?”

And she simply responds with. “not helping him… just keeping him alive”

Damn Marina you outdid it again, this is such a cool fucking idea with Scourge in the au, and it really makes what she does to TigerStar later down the line satisfying for her character and her past when you remember what he and the Clans did. What kind of society doesn't even allow a child to grieve for their mother/father? What kind of society attacks a helpless child and gets away with it?

The latter part about the deal being genuinely interesting to her does somewhat make me think of the canon books. Like, I feel as though Scourge really did find huge amounts of interest in the deal of being given plenty of land for Bloodclan to hunt and thrive in, no more starvation.

But back to the topic: The conclusion that Scourges makes with the 9 Lives really is a neat take on it, 100% if this had actually happened in canon then Scourge would have totally tortured TigerStar. Imagine how satisfying it is for Scourge in those moments, finally being able to avenge her mother in her own sick, twisted way